The Misery Machine - Mr. Hands | The Enumclaw Horse Sex Case | 2 Guys 1 Horse

Episode Date: July 6, 2020

This week, Drewby and Yergy discuss in great detail the Enumclaw horse sex case, which was a series of incidents in 2005 involving Kenneth Pinyan, an engineer who worked for Boeing and resided in Gig Harbor, Washington; James Michael Tait, a truck driver; and other unidentified men. Pinyan and Tait filmed and distributed zoophilic pornography of Pinyan receiving anal sex from a stallion under the alias "Mr. Hands". After engaging in this activity on multiple occasions over an unknown span of time, Pinyan received fatal internal injuries in one such incident. The story was reported in The Seattle Times and was one of that paper's most read stories of 2005. It was informally referred to as the "Enumclaw horse sex case". After Pinyan's death, a video circulated around the internet of Kenneth Pinyan engaging in receptive anal intercourse with a horse. The video was nicknamed "Mr. Hands" or "2 Guys 1 Horse". The video, intended originally to sexually gratify the viewer, became one of the first viral reaction videos. Pinyan's death rapidly prompted the passing of a bill in Washington prohibiting both sex with animals and the videotaping of such an act. Under current Washington law, bestiality is now a Class C felony punishable by up to five years in prison. We also discuss what qualifies as a "snuff film" and we touch on the furry subculture and how "Mr. Hands" does not represent furries. Happy Birthday Eddy, who was our patron and believed in us even when we had no subscribers and were struggling to get 100 views a month. We love you.  This week's episode is sponsored by True Crime by Indie Drop-In: https://pdsh.re/p/true-crime Join Our Facebook Group to Request a Topic: https://t.co/DeSZIIMgXs?amp=1 Support Our Patreon For More Unreleased Content: https://www.patreon.com/themiserymachine PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/themiserymachine Instagram: miserymachinepodcast Twitter: misery_podcast Discord: https://discord.gg/kCCzjZM #podcast #documentary #truecrime

Hey, we're the misery machine. Oh, hey. I'm Drewby. And I am Yergy. And we're doing something a little different today. Something fun for you. Yes. Something fun for me.

Yes. I think we had quite a bit of fun this episode. Yeah, Yergy didn't know about this. And I was surprised because this is one of the first things that I ever was exposed to on the internet that was messed up. And I just happened upon it. It's called Mr. Hands. Mr. Hands. Or as it's officially known as the Enum Claw horse sex case.

That's what we're talking about today. So I guess content warning. We're talking about horse. Horse genitalia. We'll be discussing knowing horses in the biblical sense, not from our experience, but from this one man's experience. Because at the time, it was legal in Washington State. I'm not talking about in the 70s or something. I'm talking it was legal like 10 years ago.

So yeah. But before we get into that, if you're listening on, YouTube please like and subscribe we've just passed 500 subscribers and we did a special 500 subscriber video at our local mall and YouTube flagged it because there was an eagle song playing in the background don't henley we got to beep that now too oh whatever maybe we'll get to do another one for those that caught it and said we were precious thank you i know anna was listening thank you for thinking we're precious we think you're precious we think you are precious we appreciate that but yes we 500 subscribers now so thank you so much everybody who has supported us along the way we're coming up on a

year of doing this so it really means a lot and if you want to get us to a thousand so we can get monetized please hit the like and subscribe button it really does go a long way hit the bell notification share this with somebody that you think will like it but okay that out of the way mr hands the enum claw horse sex case was a series of incidents in 2005 involving kent Pynion, or as you meme lords might know him as Mr. Hands, he was an engineer who worked for Boeing and resided in Gig Harbor, Washington, alongside James Michael Tate who was a truck driver, as well as other unidentified men. Pinyin and Tate filmed and distributed zophilic pornography of Pinyon receiving anal sex from a stallion under the alias Mr. Hans. After engaging in this activity

on multiple occasions over an unknown span of time, Pinyon received fatal injuries in one such incident. The story was reported in the Seattle Times and was one of the paper's most read stories of 2005. It was informally referred to as the Enum Claw horse sex case. Pinyon's death rapidly prompted the passing of a bill in Washington, prohibiting both sex with animals and the videotaping of such an act. Under current Washington law, beastiality is now a classy felony punishable by up to five years in prison. In the 1970s, many statutes that had criminalized certain sex acts in various U.S. states were repealed. Largely since they had criminalized some consensual sex acts between adults that were no longer considered

appropriate to forbid, such as criminalizing all oral and anal sex, which in some states, some of these things are still on the books as illegal. In Washington state, a law was repealed on July 1st, 1976. That said, and I quote, Every person who shall carnally know in any man or any animal or bird, or who shall carnally know any male or female person by the anus, or with the mouth or tongue, or who shall voluntarily submit to such knowledge, or who shall attempt sexual intercourse with a dead body,

shall be guilty of sodomy. Dot, dot, dot. There was probably more to that. I assume that was the important piece. So this was repealed in 1976. So essentially, you could have sex with a dead body. The repeal made bestiality legal. It made necrophilia legal.

I haven't found any cases of necruid, well, reported necrophilia. It was either going to be a case like this or somebody schlop in a dead body that was going to make this law go back on the books. It just, I guess, bestiality came first. Yes. I don't know how I feel about that. Was I going to hope that it was first? the necrophilia was the guy to hope but they wasn't going to get... I was hoping it was for the necrophilia.

You were hoping it was the necrophilia? Absolutely. Why? We already covered necrophilia. Yeah, we have little redundant. So at least with this, we have new material to branch into. This is true. Kenneth Pinyon had worked for Boeing for eight years. He had previously been married to a woman and had children with her. He had moved

from Seattle to Oak Harbor, Washington. Before his death, Pinyon had been building a new house and a barn in which she planned to keep a horse along the Key Peninsula highway in Gig Harbor, Washington. So having lived in Washington State, I've know of Gig Harbor, never really lived there, I've never lived there, I should say.

I've never been there, is what I meant to say. It's more rural, from what I understand. It was a ways away from Seattle, and I lived in Seattle proper. Pinyon had previously lost the ability to experience certain sensations after suffering from a motorcycle accident, and he had become involved in increasingly

extreme sexual acts, such as insertion of extremely large dildos, This thing is 300 bucks. And receptive anal sex with horses. In the heyday of the internet, the early 2000s, he found a group of men online, nicknamed zoos, who began meeting at a farm in an unincorporated area in King County, Washington. Because apparently King County, which is where Seattle is, is so big that there's unincorporated areas in there. So they meet up for communal weekends. They filmed and later posted online each other being sodomized by horses,

along with sometimes having sex with each other afterwards. According to Charles Moudid, co-writer of the 2007 documentary film Zoo, the men trained the horses to penetrate them by stripping, applying horse-breeding pheromone, and bending over. In 2015, Moudid wrote that the men had a sexual fixation on large penises that may have had nothing to do with horses. He also believed that Pinyon didn't truly love horses and was not a true zoo file, although Pynion had a cast created of the penis of his favorite horse named Strutt.

I want to ride that horse again. The incident that killed Pinyon occurred on a 40-acre farm located five miles northwest of the city of Enumclaw. I mean, if you know Washington State, you'll kind of understand, but like Seattle's course of metropolis, but you can get to the wilderness pretty quickly. you can get to backwards nowhere pretty quickly. Even though this is in the same county, this is an hour away. So Sergeant John Urquhart of the sheriff's office says that typically the men were having sex with a horse on James Michael Tate, who was the truck driver who lived in the trailer next to the

farm's property. But on this particular night, it is his understanding that the horse wasn't particularly receptive. So it's very good they're using consent here. So Pinyon, Tate, and the third unidentified man, snuck on to the southeast 444th Street Farm's barn that night. The men would often visit that farm for sexual purposes. Either Pinyon or the unidentified man recorded Tate being anally penetrated by a stallion known as Big Dick.

After finishing, Tate then filmed Pynion being anally penetrated by Big Dick. During this incident, Pinyon sustained internal injuries including a perforated colon. Let's be clear, it was a perforated sigmoid. colon. Go look up a diagram of the human digestive system right now and see just how far up the sigmoid colon is and just how big of an object would have to be in there to punch through that thing. This is not just like somebody tore their anus or rectum. I'm in my fucking pants. This is far up in there. I see if you're all bad.

On July 2nd, 2005, a man asked hospital staff for medical assistance for his companion. Pinyon was found dead in an emergency room age 45. The man who brought Pynion to the hospital had disappeared by the time hospital staff came to contact him. According to the medical examiner's office, Pinyon died of acute peritonitis due to perforation of the sigmoid colon, and the death was ruled accidental. Oh shit, I'm sorry. After Pinyon died, the authorities used his driver's license to find acquaintances and relatives. Earlier news reports stated that the authorities had to use surveillance camera footage to track down Pinyon's companion. Using the contacts, the authorities found the farm where the initial incident had occurred.

Police tracked down the rural Enumclaw area farm, which was known in zoophile internet chat rooms as a destination for people who wanted to have sex with livestock and seized 100 VHS videos and DVDs, amounting to hundreds of hours of videotapes of men engaging in bestiality. One of the videotapes featured Kenneth Pinyon shortly before he died on July 2nd. It happens to be today. It is today. It is today. Oh my goodness. Yeah, this wasn't even planned.

You were just like, let's do Mr. Hands and I'm like, okay. No, this started because I was trying to find a Fourth of July themed or birthday themes because it's Drewby's birthday tomorrow. Oh, yeah. So happy birthday to Drewby. Oh, thank you. Thank you. So I was trying to find either a birthday themed or Fourth of July themes murder. And I didn't find anything very interesting.

So I just Google searched weird deaths and started going down a list of weird deaths and found this one. I was like, oh my goodness, how have I personally not heard about this? So it just so happens today is July 2nd when we're recording, even though you're going to hear this Monday. And he died on July 2nd. Wait, you've never heard of Mr. Hans before? No, I haven't. Are you serious? I'm dead serious. How have I not heard about this? This just makes no sense. This one, probably one of the first viral videos I ever saw on a shock site. Yeah. Like I've seen everything else, but apparently not this somehow. Yeah. I don't remember if I saw this or meat spin first, but anyways. I saw meat spin. I mean, I think everyone's first was probably meet spin or something like that or tub girl but yeah i think like the

first like inaction video that wasn't a gif was mr hands i'm going to get lit on fire because i said gift wrong it was only after pinion died when law enforcement looked for one way to punish his associates that the legality of bestiality in washington state became an issue the prosecutor's office wanted to charge tate with animal abuse but the police found no evidence of abused animals on the any videotapes they collected from his home. So as there was no law against humanely, biblically knowing a horse, the prosecutors could only charge Tate with trespassing. The prosecutor's office said no animal cruelty charges were filed because there was no evidence of injury to the horses. So I'd like to say that I haven't been able to find any sort of evidence that they were actually

trespassing. And here's why I think this is weird and why I think they fabricated this. They usually had sex with the horses on James Michael Tate's property. But this one time where the horse kills the dude, they just happen to be on someone else's property, I don't buy that. Especially when you own a farm like that. Why would you just take it to somebody else's just randomly? This one time, I don't buy this

for a second. I think the police department really wanted to get a conviction for something and they were grasping at straws and this was their way to do it. Now, did these people deserve it? Sure. but this is a nice little example that when police want to book you, they'll find a way whether it's right or not. And a sad example of how law works nowadays. Again, happy they were convicted, but you'll hear soon the conviction ain't nothing at all.

Jennifer Sullivan, a Seattle Times staff reporter, said that originally the King County Sheriff's Department did not expect the newspaper to report on the event because it was, and I quote, too gruesome. I can't believe this story you're telling me. It's macab. After an Associated Press report stated that the farm where the event occurred attracted a significant number of people who wanted to partake in bestiality, the Seattle Times decided that it needed to write articles about the case since multiple people were involved. The photographer, 54-year-old James Michael Tate, was charged with criminal trespassing in the first degree because the owners of the farm, a third party, were not aware that the men entered the property to engage in Beasperty. The third man was not charged since he was not visible in the video seized by investigators.

On November 29th, 2005, Tate entered an Alford plea, which is a form of a guilty plea in which the accused maintains that they are factually innocent, but acknowledges that the evidence would likely lead to conviction and thus accept being convicted. It's the same conviction that the West Memphis three had to do. Oh, did they? Yeah, to get out of jail. Judge David Christie gave him a suspended one-year sentence. It's like why even give a year sentence at all?

You're just going to suspend it. $300 fine and one day of community service in order Tate to never visit the farm again. So basically slap on the wrist in $300. Charles Moudid wrote at the time of the incident that the residents of Enum Claw were shocked and angered by the incident. In 2015, 10 years later, Moodyed wrote that Enum Claw residents were unwilling to acknowledge the incident.

It's like, I would assume, one of those. They don't really want to be this horse fondling. You think we're these town of horse abusers? You get out of here with that nonsense. You get yourself back to the big city. You leave us good folk alone. Stuff like that.

You know the old crappy B-movies where you visit this town. This town's got a secret, but we ain't talking about it. Now, you get out of here. You should have never come here. So after Pinyon's death, a video circulated around the internet of Kenneth Pinyon engaging in receptive anal intercourse with a horse. The video was nicknamed Mr. Hans or two guys, one horse. The video intended originally to sexually gratify the viewer became one of the first

viral reaction videos. So I don't understand how the video was intended originally be sexually gratifying because it's very short and it's grainy. And from what I remember, it's just, I don't know. You can't see any penetration or anything like that. I know some people don't need to. two. I could. I didn't see any. I watched this recently. You see it and then he pulls the horse pulls out. Let's pull it up. Let's watch it. Let's pull it up. I wonder if you saw something different.

Okay, we have this video pulled up. We're going to watch it right now. All right. So they're trying to bear ass and this dude trying to pick a horse up on its back legs. Huge, huge, huge. Yep, it's right in his butt. Yep. You see penetration in my opinion. Not in my opinion. What's going on with the balls? Yeah, this guy is like death graham. tripping his balls and tucking it between his legs. No, I think he has some sort of like implants on his balls. And now he's just getting drilled. And the guys are like, yeah, you like it.

Huh? Like that? And the horse. Yeah, too much. And then the horse blows it. And they're just like, oh, did he come? And that's it. It's just like a 40, like, second clip. Horses have no stamina.

I mean, maybe that horse does it. I don't know. I mean, most animals don't have sex for that long because they're just trying to go through the act of impregnation. and then be done with it. There's very few animals that have sex for as long as humans do. And I know some people are just like, oh, yeah, I know somebody that only last 45 seconds. Well, it's probably still longer than most animals.

It's like pigs, humans and dolphins are the only ones that have sex for pleasure that I can think of off the top of my head and will have sex for longer than a matter of seconds. So, yeah, just remember that if one of you horse girls are thinking that it could be so much better when you're at riding school or whatever. You know, I've known so many horse girls. I don't just mean horse girls as in they like to ride horses. I mean, people who have admitted that

they just want to either carnally know a horse in the biblical sense or service a horse in one way or another. They say that Catherine, the Great, liked to service in the biblical sense. You can't service in the biblical sense. You can know in the biblical sense. Yes.

We're trying to clean up our language because we're close to monetization. Yes, yes. And you can't say the F word that we like to say so much. But guess what? If you subscribe to us on Patreon, you get to hear us drop all the F words in the world. We'll probably still have it drop every now and then. Only some people seem to be bothered by it.

We'll probably throw a content warning in the beginning because not everyone wants to hear about people schlop in a horse. I mean, a horse slopp in them. I don't know if YouTube's going to monetize such a video about horse sluppage. Well, there was ads on the zoo documentary. a documentary of the life and death opinion and the life led by those who came to the farm near Eamclaw debuted at the Sundance Film Festival in 2007 under the title Zoo.

It was one of 16 winners out of 156 candidates for the festival and played at numerous regional festivals in the United States thereafter. God, I guess you could play whatever garbage at Sundance. And this was garbage. Like, this was terrible. I tell you what, I thought this was going to be like, kind of good. It was bad. It sucked. Like you can find this on YouTube totally free. It's about an hour and some minutes long. It sucks. Horrid. Think horrid avant-garde film mixed with just really

weird narration. This is the first documentary I've seen where I questioned if there was unreliable narration from the narrator. Like that's not something you do in a documentary. Like, what? It was like really, really bad dramatizations, like worse on anything that you'd see on investigation discovery. It was bad. And then there was like interviews with the actors playing cop number one out of character. It was stupid. It was weird. And I think that some of the stuff that was going on was completely made up. So it was hard to know what's real and what's not. So if you're interested in this case, don't watch this documentary because you want to learn about it. It's stupid. I don't even think you should watch it, period. I mean, following Sundance, it was also

selected as one of the top five American films presented at the prestigious director's Fortnite sidebar at the 2007 Kane's Film Festival. What the... This is so dumb. Like, oh, this is art.

It's about his, dude. It wasn't even artsy. There was nothing avant-garde or artsy about it. It just sucked. Well, it was bad, it was somebody trying to make an avant-garde film. At the beginning, there's a bunch of silence and black space in this light that slowly gets bigger and bigger and then all of a sudden it cuts the footage of the atom bomb it was so weird and

i'll tell you what 2007 okay this is when this debuted and did so well if this happened in 2017 people would be getting canceled left and right this would not even make it there and the director would be canceled i guarantee it but somehow back then people considered this art If this was so prestigious, why is it free on fucking YouTube right now? And I had to pay $2 for 8mm. 8mm is good. Joaquin Phoenix is great in that movie. I want some Polyculus Day snuff.

Policulas Day. Well, we just watched, technically, we just watched a Polycula Day snuff. Because he does die. He does die. But here's the point of discussion that I'm not so sure the answer of. is it a snuff film if the person's not dead or visibly dying by the end so this ended just with the floppy horse dung falling out and just spilling its seed everywhere but you don't see the dude in pain i mean he lets out some grunts but you know i think anyone would let out grunts if you know

being uh penetrated by a horse that way by big dick by big its name is big dick his name is big dick His name is Big Dick. They literally named the horse Big Dick. So is it a snuff film if you don't see the guy die? I don't know. I'm leaning towards it not being a true snuff film. No, I think it's not a true snuff film. You know what's funny is that...

He has to be snuffed. He wasn't snuffed. Yes. You have to be... You have to look like you're dying or you have to be dead. That, in my opinion, is a snuff film. Not saying I wanted to necessarily see that, but you saw the death below, but there's no way for the audience to know it was the death blow. We don't even know if that was the incident that

caused it. You know, I thought when we were going into watching this video, or I did earlier, before we watched it together, we were going to have some sort of intestinal scene akin to the men behind the sun's pressure chamber scene. Oh, where he gets like cornhole basically. Yes, where it's like a very long pink sock. Well, yes. But it's like a pink leg warmer, not a sock. because it's so long. Right. You thought that the horse was going to go put. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That would have been a snuff film. Then that would be classified as a snuff film, in my opinion. That would be Avondagard. You know, I'm sure some would consider it avant-garde. I'm sure it would be on the cover of a grindcore album. It would be.

In 2005. I had more to say. I had more to say. Oh, Jesus. I had more to say. And I just lost it. It was something about the time period. Oh yes, 2007.

You know what was the hot topic of discussion at that period of time? There was a bunch of people, and I got hit with this so often. People tried to tell me snuff films did not exist, were not real. There was a fucking Wikipedia page at the time that said snuff films were urban legend. It's still up. They still say it's urban legend. They still say it's urban legend. It's not anymore.

How? How? We have all these examples. Because they, so they're not talking about snuff films like we saw that are basically murders happening on film because, you know, just very low quality. What they're saying is that there's no high quality snuff films being made for the point of distribution. That that, I think it's not true. So they have to be made for distribution? How would that be distributed?

Because it'd be illegal. Yeah. So what they're saying is films like hammer, And films like one lunatic, one ice pick aren't really truly snuff films. They're just murders caught on tape. Actually, I take it back. This does fit their definition. It might not have back in the days before the internet.

But now you can take a video and widely distribute it throughout the internet. This is true. But I think what it was meant for was to burn two DVDs and sell them to rich overseas clients. in some sort of black market type of operation. And I mean, there's rumors of that, sure. There's rumors like supposedly Daisy's destruction exist. But I don't know anyone who's actually seen it. Or anyone who's been to a real red room.

And you don't want to search that either or else you'll get the party van at your door. Or so I'm told. Hey guys, for this episode, our sponsor is True Crime by Indie Dropin. It's a podcast that features episodes from independent true crime creators. Each week, you'll explore a different ask. of the true crime genre. You'll hear episodes about serial killers, violence, conspiracies, celebrities, white-collar crime, and much, much more. You will hear creators from all over the world,

including our Junco Furuda episodes, so please go check it out. Now you can get your true crime fixed from many other independent podcasts just like us. Search for true crime by Indie drop-in on your favorite app or click the link in the show notes to get started. In 2005, James Michael Tate moved to Morrie County, Tennessee. where he lived on the farm of a man named Kenny Thomason, which had 13 horses, Shetland ponies, goats, and dogs. On October 13th, which was Myoma's birthday, 2009, a woman associated with them,

Christy D. Morris, was arrested and charged with three counts of animal cruelty. Two days later, an anonymous person emailed investigators a photo of a man who was having sex with a Shetland pony from Thomason's farm, and Tate and Thomason were arrested, that same day. Tate was charged with three counts of felony animal cruelty. Thomason was charged

with two counts of felony animal cruelty. According to Tate's arrest warrant, he had been engaging in sex acts with a stud horse over a span of several months. Tate and Thomas had admitted to engaging in sex acts with the horse. In January 2010, Tate pleaded

guilty in a Tennessee court to engaging in sexual acts with animals and was placed on probation. So slap on the hand again. After Pynion, Pam Roach, who was a member of the Washington State Senate and a Republican from Auburn, Auburn Washington, not Auburn, Maine. Yes, it is a real place. Crafted a bill to ban bestiality in Washington State.

Senate Bill 6417, which made bestiality a Class C felony, passed on February 11, 2006, which relatively quick, given the time frame of all this, with 36 state senators voting for it. Charles Moodeed wrote, quote, It was an almost comically easy law to pass because beastiality had no political support, none in Washington State. No group in Washington State advocated for bestiality. There's always one group or one person that tries to argue against a bill or what have you. Nobody did for this.

So it passed in an absolute landslide. Charles Moudid wrote that reading the law, quote, is very much like reading hardcore porn. I want to read this law. In addition, the law prohibits, quote, quote, videotaping a person engaged in a sexual act or sexual contact with an animal that is either alive or dead. Because of the provision against videotaping, Charles Moodydeed stated the law, quote, points an angry finger directly at James Tate, end quote. In 2015, Charles Moodyed said that he was unaware of any bestiality arrest in Washington State since the Pinyn incident. and as the time of this recording,

I am unaware of any such arrests as well. Same goes for necrophilia, because I'm sure that when they restored the bestiality is a felony law, they probably restored the necrophilia law. And if they didn't... Someone's going to fuck a corpse soon. Email us at Misery Machine Podcast at gmail.com, because...

You know, Charles Moodeed here, even though he made a shitty movie, has some pretty funny quips. He does, because this dude does seem kind of like a joker. He would have made something a little more making light of the situation. Like, if he was going to make a mockery of somebody dying like this, he would have done it in more of a comical fashion and not in this really artsy way. It almost seemed like he wanted to have sympathy for the people who were having sex with horses.

It's what it came off to me. It really seemed like he was trying to garner sympathy for these people. He was. And the main person who was. who was talking. I don't know who it was. It was supposed to be Tate or what. They didn't use anybody's real names. They never used names. They only say Mr. Hands and that's it, I think. There was like a Mr. H. and the happy horseman. I don't know who was who. So the guy that they mainly were interviewing, which I believe was probably Tate, was like going on and on about

how he hadn't done anything wrong. He just loved his animals a little more than people normally do. I doubled down on this. If this was released, nowadays, the director would get canceled. This would never see the light of day because they would say that this is propaganda that normalizes and sympathizes with people who commit beastiality. I don't know. I bet some sort of group will be all for this. For beastiality? Some sort of group will want to go throw a Z for Z for Zew file in the LGBTQIA plus banner. This is my opinion of what would happen these days. That you think somebody would try to commandeer queer culture and try to say that, okay, so what I will say is that I know some people who are really great furries, however, the furry community seems to have changed,

at least my interaction with the furry community. Nowadays, it seems like furies just want to hang with other furries. However, when I was on Live Journal, back in 2002 to 2006, I was on Live Journal. The furries that were on there, I don't know if they were edge lords or what. This was before B or anything like that, 4chan. They were all about talking how animals can consent and it was okay to have sex with animals. And in fact, I thought that what a furry meant was a human that liked to have sex with animals because all these people, that's all they talked about. So were they doing this in some sort of cosplay for Sona? Or were they really talking about like having sex with their hamster?

They were literally talking about having sex with animals. And they would also say that even more so that they feel they need to do it because they're a lynx trapped in a man's body or they really are a fox. But they look like a person when other humans are around. They would always spell human, H-O-O-M-A-N. So these are like these other kin. Basically, nowadays, I would assume that they're known as other kin, but I, again, I don't know where the evolution of this happened. And I don't know Hyprata. I assume that the people in the furry community that were mostly about Fursona's.

And I'll have to ask some people about this who were in the furry community kind of got rid of the people that wanted to fuck animals and shun them and shit. That's the only thing I can think of. And maybe I had really messed up experiences. but all I can tell you is that was my dealing with furries back then. They wanted to fuck animals and they were proponents of having sex with animals. I don't know. The ones that I know are pretty cool and just want to be cool in their outfits. Well, right.

Right. That's what I'm saying. Nowadays, that's the type of furries I know. But 15 years ago, it was night and day different. I don't know. I need to learn more about this. And we'll probably add another clip after I talk to some people. Okay.

So we talked to Eddie, who is our resident. Furry. So the short answer is the zoo files have mostly been pushed underground. There are some who are being shunned and ousted as zoos, but most people keep it on the down low. In the beginning, furries were fans of anthro characters, you know, Looney Tunes or stuff like that. As animation evolved, we got more adult-style cartoons. And he feels it really didn't start out as a zoo thing, but I feel, he feels that they thought they could get asylum here. And because he's a furry, some people automatically assume he's a zoo. That's a common misconception, which I guess kind of speaks to how I thought furries were, because that's all I was dealing with was Edge Lords on Live Journal in weird communities. I can't really speak about Otherkin. I don't know any other kin, so I don't know if Otherkin are necessarily Zoo Files. If anybody knows anything about that, you can put that in the comment section, but Furries and Zoo Files, two separate things. And it sounds to me like your average furry

would shun that shit. It seems like Zoo Files have kind of co-opted these different subcultures. Yeah, and I think it was easier back in the earlier days of the internet or when the stuff was still forming to make a big stance there, but now things have ironed out and become more concrete.

It's harder to co-opt something like that. From Eddie's perspective, he didn't feel like it started out that way and probably in the circles he ran and it didn't. And it might not have been a big thing the furries I ran into that wanted to fuck animals. That could have been a very small pocket of them and I just unfortunately ran into them. I don't know. I think probably a lot of them were just

doing some sort of role play on live journal because that's what they did back then. It's possible. Though it was this online comment called Video Game Cats and they had an RSS feed that would post a live journal. So when you had that happen, there was a big comment sections. It was just loaded with furries just saying all this Edge Lord shit. And then I would go look at their profiles and it was just all like zoo file like stuff or fantasizing about that shit it wasn't like pictures or nothing but it was just all shit like that it was horrifying so that's where i got that impression from but i mean again since i've grown older i've met furries who are not like that furries are not zoo files anything else you want to say no i have nothing to add on this conversation i'm totally cool with all these will you have

anything else i'm not okay with zoo files well of course of course yes we are not cool because we consider this animal abuse. You know, I think some people are going to be like, especially with all the sound clips, oh, you're making fun of somebody who died. Well, the person who died was an animal abuser. So, you know, I don't really care. If you have sympathy for that... Fuck you!

You know, I think there's a lot of places you can go and have your circle jerk about that. But I would think the average person would not have much sympathy if an animal abuser dies this way. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. Like getting your sigmoid moid colon punch through. But anyways. So, yeah, if you're listening on YouTube, please like

and subscribe. I don't know. I had a fun time with this one. This was pretty entertaining. This was a decent birthday present to me or something. So between the content and then searching for the sound clips, I think we...

I finally got to throw a bunch of gotchie in here. So there's that. And happy 4th of July. Yeah, happy birthday America. We're celebrating America by talking about American laws like horse fucking. But yeah, if you're listening to on YouTube, please like and subscribe if you appreciated this, share this with somebody. If you want to support us on Patreon, which would mean the world to us, patreon.com slash the misery machine. And thank you so much to our patrons. Yes. Thank you to Eddie, Rowan, Marky, Lauren, Holly, Karen, Ashley and Vue. We're getting so many now and I appreciate you all so very much.

And also, this isn't going to come out. But happy birthday to Eddie, the original patron, the one person who believed in us for the longest time. We didn't even have like 50 subscribers. And Eddie believed in us and became our patron when no one else was our patron, like stuck with us, hung out in our discord with us when it was just us two and him and has been there ever since. and I cannot express just how much that means to me. So happy birthday, Eddie, or belated by the time this comes out. We love you very, very, very much, and you mean the world to us.

Oh, and if you guys are wondering, yeah, there's been a lot of dates thrown out here. So. We record this over the course of Fourth of July weekends. Yeah, we talked to, I think we mentioned this, kind of peeled back the curtain on the Elisa Lam episode, that we usually don't record in one shot, usually record the intro last, and things are recorded over a few days with the 4th of July weekend just all the stuff we've been recording this over several days i think we started on thursday we started on your birthday we started on my birthday okay nope we started the day before your birthday because it was technically the day that mr hans died so it was the second so we started july second we're finishing this up july 5th and it'll be out on july 6 so yeah fun just you're wondering yeah this is all scrambles behind the scenes i'm sure some people can guess but you know some people like to think think that this is just one long stream of consciousness, but sorry. Sorry, it's not.

Sometimes it is. Our Patreon episodes almost always are. So yeah, you can go listen to that. I have nothing else. Okay. Well, until next week then, we love you. We love you very much. I hope you had a safe fourth and nobody got hurt by fireworks, including small aminals.

Yes, especially small animals. Especially small animals. Okay, bye. Bye, yeah, boy. They murdered her, a vile and disgraceful act. We were able to discover the remains of two humans. Welcome to Crime Lapse. I am Eileen. And I'm Charlie.

Crime Lapse is a true crime podcast that uses primary audio, in-depth research and a mode of narration to give you an immersive insight into the darkest tales and most horrifying crimes. Find Crime Laps wherever you listen to podcasts and at Crime Lack Podcast or at Crime Lack. pod on social media. Everyone has a story to tell, so why not let us tell you some?