The Misery Machine - The Case of Debbie Leitch

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

This week, Drewby and Yergy head across The Pond to Blackpool to discuss the case of Debbie Leitch, a young woman with Downs Syndrome living with her mother, Elaine Clarke, in a terrace house in the town South Shore district. Rather than take care of her daughter's needs, Elaine spent Debbie's benefits on item for herself. She allowed her to live in filth, covered in scabies, and waste away to a mere 52 pound before she finally passed from the neglect.  Support Our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/themiserymachine PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/themiserymachine Join Our Facebook Group: https://t.co/DeSZIIMgXs?amp=1 Instagram: miserymachinepodcast Twitter: misery_podcast Discord: https://discord.gg/kCCzjZM #themiserymachine #podcast #truecrime Source Materials: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/257144155/deborah-ann-leitch#:~:text=Memorial%20www,Blackpool%20Unitary%20Authority%2C%20Lancashire https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2022-02-24/mum-who-allowed-disabled-daughter-to-die-in-squalor-jailed https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/blackpool-neglect-death-deborah-leitch-b1821515.html#:~:text=suffering%20with%20an%20extensive%20scabies,the%20time%20she%20passed%20away https://disability-memorial.org/deborah-leitch#:~:text=Deborah%20Leitch https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/people/is-that-all-my-girls-life-was-worth-3603706#:~:text=In%202014%2C%20Clarke%20moved%20her,got%20to%20know%2C%20and%20cheeky%E2%80%99 https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/crime/lazy-and-selfish-blackpool-mum-starved-disabled-daughter-to-death-in-dark-faeces-covered-room-3584397#:~:text=Ms%20Muggerridge%20said%3A%20,never%20gave%20it%20to%20her https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/news/crime/hastings-dad-blasts-vile-and-evil-ex-wife-after-she-is-jailed-over-daughters-death-3591852#:~:text=The%20heartbroken%20dad%20said%20Clarke,her%20mum%20by%20social%20services https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/crime/coroner-probes-death-of-debbie-leitch-as-disgraced-mum-snubs-inquest-4824342#:~:text=Debbie%20Leitch%2C%2024%2C%20who%20had,South%20Shore%20in%20August%202019 https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/people/woman-who-starved-to-death-was-unlawfully-killed-inquest-finds-4827952#:~:text=extended%20family https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/mum-who-starved-daughter-to-death-in-squalid-bedroom-jailed/#:~:text=Elaine%20Clarke%2C%2049%2C%20,smelled%20of%20death https://www.dreamindemon.com/community/threads/no-justice-woman-slowly-starved-her-24yo-down%E2%80%99s-syndrome-daughter-to-death-in-filthy-room.130767/#:~:text=,5%20kg https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/blackpool-neglect-death-deborah-leitch-b1821515.html#:~:text=known%20as%20Debbie%2C%20deceased%20inside,the%20address https://news.sky.com/story/debbie-leitch-lancashire-mother-49-admits-killing-her-24-year-old-daughter-12524449#:~:text=Elaine%20Clarke%2C%2049%2C%20initially%20pleaded,unlawful%20killing%20of%20Debbie%20Leitch https://www.facebook.com/itvnews/posts/debbie-leitch-24-who-was-born-with-downs-syndrome-was-discovered-dead-at-her-fam/934370962058913/#:~:text=Facebook%20www,in%20Blackpool%20in%20August%202019 https://uk.news.yahoo.com/tragic-dad-never-got-answers-175449564.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9jaGF0Z3B0LmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANLxEcRYo2vZy8pfYnw9_QkSvJv8HowDM7Z2YyrkXypHUneTh7dgfHLt4U_wVgzVou_JFTo1jfSSLXaC852C30uia88FGL1sLL5HEldjtO1yFugJM-kuxkFxo83hWwEH-X4Sa7ckQdyN8XWGcIILih7CQxpuvTo6mW1u9Zs96q7h https://www.facebook.com/BBCLancashire/posts/a-coroner-says-debbie-leitch-died-from-the-effects-of-her-severely-emaciated-and/1073169711479544/ https://crimeline.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/R-v-Elaine-Clarke-sentencing-remarks-240222.pdf? https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1B4R4d8BeQ/?mibextid=wwXIfr https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-60560700

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With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra, Seeful terms at mintmobile.com. Deborah Ann Leach, also known as Debbie, was born in June of 1995 in Hastings, a seaside

borough in East Sussex, England. She was the daughter of Thomas Leach and his then-wife Elaine Clark. Debbie had Down syndrome, which made her heavily dependent on her parents for her well-being. Those who knew her described her as a gentle soul who loved to laugh and connect with others despite the communication barriers that her disability sometimes posed. She loved watching Disney films, playing with family pets, and spending time outdoors whenever she could. Hugs and smiles were abundant when Debbie was around, traits that became her signature. Looking at her photographs, you could see that she had fair skin, fine blonde hair,

and often wore a pair of maroon glasses slipping down her nose, always with a bright smile on her face. As Debbie grew into her teens in early adulthood, she blossomed socially. She was described as a quiet, shy yet playful girl who was still outgoing with people she got to know. But life at home, unfortunately, was often problematic. This was mainly because her parents' relationship had fallen apart when Debbie was just a toddler. Tom, Debbie's father, separated from Elaine in 1997 amid a difficult divorce, reportedly after Elaine had an affair. Elaine was awarded custody of Debbie and her sisters while Tom was granted visitation rights. Tom said that he appealed the decision, but social services decided that with their help and support,

Elaine would be able to take care of Debbie and her siblings all on her own. Tom said that he appealed the decision, but social services decided that with their help and support, Elaine would be able to take care of Debbie and her siblings. Tom, however, felt that Elaine was an unfit mother. He believed that the system had made a mistake by automatically assuming that his children belonged with their mother. Elaine eventually went on to have a fourth child from a later relationship. Each of the four children had either a learning or physical disability that required extra care. Social services in East Sussex, where the family lived during Debbie's early years,

knew the family well, and there had been ongoing concerns about Elaine's parenting skills in the home environment, as well as about some of the men in Elaine's life after Tom. Multiple agencies had been involved with a family when Debbie was a child, creating a patchwork of support plans and welfare checks. Still, Elaine retained custody and Tom found it harder and harder to see his children. He said Elaine even remarried at one point after their divorce and thereafter did everything she could to stop him from seeing them. Debbie adored her father.

He recalled how her face lit up every time she saw him. Sadly, those visits became more and more infrequent because Elaine started to keep the kids away from him. In 2014, when Debbie was 19, Elaine packed up and moved the family from Hastings where Tom and the other relatives live to Leeds. She wanted to be with her new boyfriend, Robert Bruce, who lived in Rothwell near Leeds. There, the new couple and the kids would live together as a family. This move effectively distanced Debbie from her father and from the Sussex social workers who had been monitoring the family for years. However, it seemed that the change was benefiting Debbie at first. While in Leads, Debbie enrolled in a local college special education program and also attended a daycare center for adults with disabilities.

Those programs gave her structure, friends, and professional oversight. By all accounts, Debbie was flourishing in Leeds. She also had her first boyfriend and enjoyed a degree of independence outside of the home. While in Leeds, Elaine held it together enough to get by. She was receiving state benefits of approximately 215 British pounds per week, specifically to care for Debbie. Family members seem to suggest that Elaine was lazy and selfish as a mother, often more focused on her own wants than the needs of her children.

Then in August of 2016, after about two years in Leeds, Elaine moved the family yet again, this time roughly 100 miles away to Blackpool, a town on the northwest coast. They moved into a small terrace house at 15 Garden Terrace in Blackpool's South Shore District. Obviously, when they relocated to Blackpool, Debbie's supportive routines went away. Blackpool social services were not deeply familiar with the family's history

and had to rely on Elaine's word and any records that were transferred over. From 2016 onward, Elaine was Debbie's full-time caregiver, paid by the government to look after her vulnerable adult daughter. She did not enroll Debbie in any daycare programs or take up college classes in Blackpool. Debbie suddenly became isolated at home, entirely dependent on her mother's care. Neighbors on Garden Terrace saw Debbie outside less and less over time. Some didn't even realize an adult daughter lived in the house. Behind closed doors, the care of the...

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In early 2018, these relatives started hearing troubling reports. Debbie's health was declining. She lost weight and didn't want to leave her room, and Elaine offered a string of excuses. Things like Debbie had a skin condition. Debbie was prone to rashes, or Debbie didn't like going out and so on. In April of 2018, the first concrete evidence of serious neglect surfaced. Debbie was brought to Clifton Hospital in St. Anne's near Blackpool for a severe skin outbreak, where doctors diagnosed her with Norwegian scabies, a highly contagious and painful skin infection.

Norwegian scabies, also called crusted scabies, is often associated with unclean conditions or a compromised immune system, and it caused thick crusts and itching over her skin. medical staff provided treatment and medication. They also gave Elaine instructions on follow-up care at home and schedule subsequent appointments, none of which she came back to the hospital for. Each time, Elaine had an excuse, car trouble, scheduling conflicts, and anything she could think of. Later in 2018, friends and family who visited the Blackpool House saw more worrying signs. Debbie's skin condition persisted.

She would scratch herself raw and her skin looked red, crap, and sore. At least once, one of Debbie's sisters confronted their mother, urging her to get proper help for Debbie's deteriorating health. But Elaine reacted defensively. According to the sister, Elaine snapped that she should mind her own business, dismissing the concerns about Debbie. During this period, Debbie's father remained largely out of the loop. Living in Hastings, he maintained occasional contact with Debbie over the phone. Once Debbie expressed a longing that broke his heart to recall. She said, Dad, is there any chance I can come back to Hastings and live with you? Debbie was an adult by then, 23 years old, and in theory could choose where she wanted to live.

But her down syndrome meant she was not fully independent and such decisions would have to involve social services first. Tom, not understanding the full urgency, advised her to hang in there until she was 25, thinking that perhaps by then it might be easier to arrange a move or that she might change her mind after the rough patch was over. Later lamented that if he had known what was going on, he would have jumped in his car and gone to save her. The late summer of 2019 marked the final horrific downturn in Debbie's life. By July of that year, 24-year-old Debbie was severely malnourished, bravely ill, and living in filth. Outsiders who visited the Garden Terrace House were often kept from seeing her. On July 26, 2019, one of Elaine's relatives decided to check on Debbie in person.

This was her niece, a woman named Sammy Muggeridge, who had grown increasingly alarmed by reports filtering through the family about Debbie's health. Sammy showed up unannounced at the Blackpool home. There, she saw Debbie lying on a filthy stained mattress on the floor in a dark room. The stench was... All right, class, settle down. Today's lesson is on the art. Rewards app. Try to stay with me. The fundamentals are simple. Earn at least five cents a gallon in rewards, then redeem them later for up to a dollar off every gallon. Now here's where it gets complicated. Oh, wait, it doesn't. It's as simple as downloading the Arco Rewards app to get started.

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or simply out of neglect. She was dressed in stained night clothes that had stuck to her because of the unwashed dirt. Lying there, Debbie was barely able to move and was crying out in pain calling mummy, mummy. Sammy turned to her on a lane and begged her to take action. She warned the lane that if she did not get her help, Debbie wasn't going to survive for much longer. Elaine was annoyed at the accusation that she wasn't taking good enough care of her daughter. Still, with Debbie right there, lying in her own filth, she scrambled to do the bare minimum to get Sammy off of her back. That same day on July 26, 2019, Elaine contacted a general practitioner from Whitegate Health Center,

who's the local doctor's office, and arranged for an emergency home visit. Plus, Sammy called Blackpool Social Services to raise a safeguarding alarm as soon as she left the house. And the general practitioner arrived later on, Elaine tried to camouflage the situation. Knowing the doctor was on the way, she hastily tidied up some of the mess and attempted to clean Debbie. According to the GP's testimony, Elaine put Debbie in the shower and tried to wash off the evidence of neglect. Debbie screamed throughout the shower. The pain on her skin must have been excruciating. With open scabies, rashes and sores, having water and soap hit her skin would have been very painful.

But Elaine managed to present her in a slightly more presentable state by the time the doctor examined her. Debbie, who was likely exhausted and frightened, was propped up on the living room sofa, freshly bathed and wearing clean clothes. This superficial cleanup was enough to fool the doctor. Doctor noted that Debbie looked thin and unwell, but when Elaine confidently explained that her daughter had a skin infection for which she was providing creams and that Debbie was eating and being cared for, the doctor took her at her word. You didn't observe the bedroom, nor did he see... This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list. Not one more.

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and they were set to respond soon. Social workers attempted a surprise visit to the Garden Terrace House in July 29th, but they were prevented from entering the property by a relative. Social workers left, returned the very next day, determined to see Debbie, but they were still unable to see her. By the time of the rescheduled visit on August 1st, Elaine had again prepared for this. She brought Debbie downstairs, cleaned and dressed to meet the officials. Debbie had now become skinny, and as one social worker noted, she looked very slight,

but Elaine was good at pretending to be an attentive mother. She cheerfully told the visiting social workers that Debbie was doing really well, and that she was eating fine and spending more time downstairs. Social workers looked into Debbie's bedroom, which was now cleaned and aired out, and they saw nothing that was lacking. The workers noted that the young woman appeared to be unwell and underweight. Since the doctor had recently visited and there was a plan for a follow-up, they did not raise an alarm at that time.

Elaine had successfully masked the ongoing neglect. After this, the social services team scheduled yet another review visit for September 2nd. But throughout August 2019, Debbie's condition continued to worsen. Away from the attention of social services after August 1st, Elaine apparently resumed her pattern of neglect. Neighbors on the quiet residential street recalled hearing disturbing sounds coming from the house in the middle of the night. One neighbor reported hearing a young female voice crying out, mummy, mummy in the early hours during that last week of August. It is believed that in those final days, Debbie was confined to her bed, two week to walk. Her body infected, covered in sores, and slowly starving.

Elaine later claimed she didn't realize how bad it had gotten. At the same time, she admitted that she spent her days online shopping and taking care of her own needs, buying herself handbags and shoes while her daughter was covered in filth upstairs starving. The money that came in each week for Debbie's care was being used by Elaine herself. By the evening of August 29, 2019, Debbie had passed away. At 10.40 p.m. that evening, a panicked call was finally placed to emergency services. Elaine told the operator that her daughter wasn't breathing and apparent cardiac arrest. Paramedics from Northwest Ambulance Service rushed the address on Garden Terrace.

They found Debbie lying on the bedroom floor in an unnatural curled up position. It was clear to the responders that she had been dead for some time. In fact, medical evidence suggests. that Debbie probably passed away a day and a half earlier, meaning Elaine may have lived in the house with her daughter's body for well over a day before asking for help. The paramedics were shocked by Debbie's appearance in the overall environment of the home.

They could not tell at first glance whether the person on the floor was male or female because Debbie's once feminine features were hidden because of the neglect she suffered. Her face was completely covered in scabs and thickened skin from the untreated scabies, to the point where she was no longer recognizable as a young female. Her hair was thin in falling out in patches. The smell of decomposition in filth hit the first responders instantly.

Paramedic John Wilkinson, upon seeing Debbie up close, was shaken. He would later recall that he found a live maggot on or near her body when he tried to move her. The room itself was back to the filthy, unlivable state that Sammy had witnessed. worse, actually. Investigators later describe plates of rotting foods spread all around in piles of feces-covered clothing and bedding all around the mattress. Debbie's physical condition was unbelievable. She weighed only 52 pounds, which is about a third of what a healthy woman her age should weigh. In fact, the family remembered that just a few years earlier in Leeds, Debbie had weighed about 141 pounds while living a healthy life. One police officer said that Debbie looked like a skeleton when they found her. Her ribs and joints were visibly pointing outwards under her skin,

and she had open sores and infected crusts over 30% of her body from scalp to feet. Her clothes were filthy. She was dressed in a stained jumper in trousers, and when paramedics began to cut the fabric away to try to resuscitate, bits of her skin came off with a cloth because it had literally stuck to her body. They found that she had been wearing an adult diaper that was heavily soiled, which suggested that she had been left in her own waist for a long period of time. The scabies mites were still present, as rescuers saw tiny mites crawling all over her back and on her bedding. The skin on her face, especially around her eyes and scalp, was described as thickened, scabbed, and raw.

The souls of her feet were also covered in rashes and scabs. It was clearly an extreme... Introducing Taco Bell's new jalapeno citrus salsa with bright citrus, real red jalapinos, guahillo chilis. Usually, you add sauce to the food, but when the sauce is this good, the food is just there to get the sauce to your mouth. That rolled cassidia, not a rolled cassidia anymore. Now it's a sauce shovel. Taco Bell's jalapeno citrus salsa, get it with any item on the canteen of chicken menu while it's here. The participating U.S. Taco Bell locations for a limited time only, while supplies last.

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Law enforcement treated the case with the seriousness of a homicide. Major police investigation named Operation Nevada was launched by Lancashire. police's forced major investigation team. Investigators swarmed the Garden Terrace House, documenting the horrible conditions in collecting evidence. Elaine was arrested at the scene on suspicion of causing her daughter's death. In total, police interviewed six individuals of suspects during the early phase of their inquiry. This included Elaine and her partner, Robert.

Four people were arrested at first, though identities aside from Elaine and Robert were not made public. It may have included family members or others who had been at the house around that time, people who had witnessed the neglect but done nothing about it. Over the next year, detectives compiled the convincing timeline and forensic record of negligence. In March of 2021, about 18 months after Debbie's death, authorities made a big announcement. Two people were being charged with manslaughter in connection with Debbie's passing. Those individuals were Elaine and Robert.

Each of them was charged with gross negligence manslaughter. Robert also faced a separate charge under UK law, causing or allowing the death of a vulnerable adults since he was a member of the household during the period of Debbie's worsening condition. In July of 2021, at a preliminary hearing, Elaine pled not guilty to the charge of unlawful killing. She was scheduled to stand trial at Preston Crown Court in early 2022. Robert also pled not guilty to his charges, and so a trial date was set for February of 2022. However, in December of 2021, Elaine changed her plea to guilty. she had finally admitted that her neglect had directly caused Debbie's death.

Meanwhile, Robert never went to trial either. At the same hearing in late 2021, the Crown Prosecution Service decided to drop all charges against him. The exact reason was not explained, but it is speculated that the prosecution lacked sufficient evidence to convict him. Then, on February 24th of 2022, Elaine appeared on the dock of the Preston Crown Court for her sentencing hearing. The details of Debbie's suffering were recounted in full detail before the judge, Justice Amanda Yip.

Debbie's father, Tom, attended the sentencing. He had traveled from Hastings, and at one point, he broke down in tears as the judge reviewed what happened to his daughter. Elaine, on the other hand, showed little emotion in court. When given the chance to speak, she offered no real apology. She was ultimately sentenced to nine years and seven months in prison for the gross negligence manslaughter of her daughter. Under UK law, Elaine would be required to serve at least two-thirds of her sentence before becoming eligible for parole. With time served, she could be eligible for release around 2028. Many in the public and Debbie's family felt that the sentence was far too lenient.

Tom openly criticized the outcome, asking if that's all his little girl's life was worth. You know, why did she die? Why? What was she like? She was lovely. You know, she wouldn't have a soul. You know, she used to love sitting in the mirror brushing her hair. We never talked to her again. Even if she's done her time, to us, she should have got life.

Lice for a life, you know. He met with his local member of Parliament to push for a review. of the sentence. The case was referred to the Attorney General under the unduly lenient sentence scheme, but the sentence was not increased. The court decided it fell within the acceptable range for manslaughter. Elaine was sent to a woman's prison, likely His Majesty's Prison Style or another facility for female offenders in the Northwest. The case also prompted an independent safeguarding adults' review, taken on by the Blackpool Safeguarding Adults Board to look into what went wrong and to prevent such a tragedy from happening again. In the review, which used the pseudonym Jessica for Debbie,

the findings were blunt. There had been missed opportunities across the board. Carers, social workers, and medical staff had been too willing to accept Elaine's explanation and her ability to play along. It concluded that Debbie's death had been avoidable if the warning sites had been acted upon sooner and more decisively. Debbie's family in Hastings mourned in their own way. Tom, who was clearly heartbroken, kept fighting for justice in Debbie's name. He gave multiple interviews to the press, determined that the world recognized Debbie as more than just a victim

by talking about her personality and her bright spirit, and I hope that we've done that justice in this video. Debbie's body was held for some time by the coroner and forensic authorities. It was eventually released to the family after the post-mortem and initial inquiries were completed. Debbie was cremated and her father fought to be given some of her remains. In the end, he received half of Debbie's ashes. He decided to lay his portion of her ashes to rest in a place filled with personal meaning.

He buried them beside his father, Debbie's grandfather. Years later, during a pre-enquest session on May 8th, 2024 at Blackpool Town Hall, it was announced that Tom had passed away before the inquest could move forward. His absence was especially saddening, considering how deeply he had sought answers about his daughter's death. The hearing also confirmed that Elaine had refused to take part in the proceedings. Though the court previously reached out and the prison was made aware of the inquest, Elaine had chosen not to be involved. The inquest meant to look into the circumstances surrounding Debbie's final months,

moved ahead without two of the most central figures, and unfortunately led to no real conclusions. But people did not forget about her. To mark one year since her passing in August of 2020, supporters online organized a wave of light vigil. People were asked to light a candle at a set time in Debbie's memory and post a photo of it. Dozens of photos of lit candles appeared on Facebook

with messages like, for Debbie, may you rest in peace. I think the first thing that needs to be said when talking about Debbie Leach's case is that many people wrongfully refer to this as a child. child neglect case. And I thought it was a child neglect case too. And I think that we're doing Debbie and other adult disabled victims a disservice if we don't talk about it for what it is, because some of the ways in which Debbie was taken advantage of related to the fact that she wasn't a child. Right. So in normal cases, CPS might be involved in a situation like this with the child

that has a disability. And I know, like, in our comments, we'll probably get, where was CPS? Well, CPS is not going to be involved with it because it is adult. She was 24 at the time of her death. Yeah, she was 24. And in a lot of cases, unless some sort of complaint has been lodged, adult protective services are like are not going to be involved either. Now this makes sense.

Yes. And now this was a UK case. So there's some laws here that we might not be aware of. And if you know them better than us, please let us. Please let us know in the comments. But, you know, I tie this back to Katerina Witten, who we covered recently, who other people thought was a child, too, when talking about it. Or most notably, Lacey Fletcher, who fused to the couch.

That's how it was in the headlines. So if you remember that case, you probably remember it like that. Some people thought she was a child, too, when they first read about it. The thing that really strikes me, there's a lot of sad things here, about Debbie, but when she was 23, she said to her father, I want to live with you. And as an adult, you have the option to live wherever you want to. Now, I don't know in the UK if her being legally disabled barred her from having that option. But I would think that if she was able to put that forward to social services and knew how to speak out.

and her dad knew the proper channels to go through, she very well would have been able to live with him. Right, or even if she had the same opportunities that she had when she was in Leeds, whether she was still in her college programs, the day programs with all of her friends. At that point, even if she couldn't communicate well, she could at least communicate to somebody so that the wheels would be turning and they could get the ball rolling for her to do that.

Absolutely. And in most situations, where an adult has to speak out, people would say, well, if you don't know, then that's on you, but this is a disabled adult. And because of that, somebody has to properly advocate for her and let her know she has those choices. I mean, she obviously could communicate well enough and had enough sense about her to be able to know I would rather live with my father. So I would hope that if she put that forward to somebody, that she would have gotten that option. And a very interesting connection that I've noticed with a lot of the cases of people with disabilities we've covered recently is the frequency of which there's hoarding or insect infestations.

So if we look back to Katerina Witten, there was cockroaches that her where she was being eaten by them. She couldn't even see that she was being eaten by them. You know, late Lacey, there was like a rat infestation. She was getting bitten by rats. Christina Pangalangan, she was still a child, but there's bedbugs all night. over the house. Heather Bainard, that was a whole other situation with a lot of different filth going on. So it's very interesting. It makes you wonder, like, you know, should adult protective services be involved just to check the welfare? And I know there's a lot of different hurdles with that.

There is a chance that the government could use it to control whether people get benefits or not. And that's not what we're like advocating for, but just to make sure as a baseline that, you know, people are okay. Yeah. I mean, with disabled children or children that are on social services, CPS's radar, they're supposed to be routine check-ins or proper consistent documentation. But it appears based on our research, especially these cases, if this is a disabled adult, that need for documentation and check-in is very little or doesn't exist at all. I would think that most people who are parents of disabled adults would do what is necessary. for their disabled adult children.

But this is where we find situations where they fall through the cracks. And, you know, again, we're in running this channel and with what cases people are recommending us, I'm seeing patterns that I didn't know were there before starting this channel. I didn't know that there was this number of disabled adults that are being harmed or neglected

and just falling through the cracks and nobody knows anything about it until it's too late. And so it's like, what do we do for them? I don't know if I have any, like, quick, concrete answers for that. I don't either. It's just extremely sad. And I think that there just needs to be some sort of oversight for that. And what's really depressing about this as well,

on top of everything we've already discussed, I found this information out in post when we were finishing me editing up. Debbie's dad learned about her death via Facebook. Yeah. Yeah. And we found Emily Pike's case, her mom found out. Yeah, same situation. Yeah, it's, that was the first time I think I found or researched a case where a parent has to find out about their child's death through social media. And what a bizarre thing to even consider. You would think that wouldn't be the case. How we know of it is that the news can't even report on something like that until the families know. notified. So why wouldn't that be the case here? And now within a span of like a month, we have found two cases where the parent finds out on social media. I can't imagine what it

feels like to be a father and find out that way. And nobody have the decency to give you a call, especially a dad that wanted to do everything right for his daughter. Her dad was a victim of the fact that the courts felt that Elaine was a better fit caretaker for Debbie. And Tom, much to his credit, appealed the decision, explained and presented reasons why he felt she was an unfit mother and an unfit caretaker. And there comes a point where you as a parent fight and fight and fight, but at the end of the day, the courts will dictate what you're able to do. And unfortunately, that was the case for him and my heart breaks for him.