The Misery Machine - The Disappearance of Randy Leach | 1980's Satanic Panic | Do Small Town Police Mishandle Cases?

Episode Date: May 25, 2020

This week, Yergy and Drewby tackle another listener suggestion (thank you, Amir!) - the unsolved disappearance of Randy Leach. We discuss the hard facts, and ponder whether or not the combination of the 1980's "Satanic Panic" phenomena and shoddy police work rendered his case unsolvable.   Randy was a senior at Linwood High School (Linwood, Kansas) in 1988. He left his home at 6:30 p.m. to attend a friend's pre-graduation party which took place on a farm owned by Annie Erwin, the mother of one of the graduating teens, on April 15, 1988. Randy did not arrive at the party until between 9:30 and 10:00 p.m. He was driving his mother's gray four-door 1985 Dodge sedan with the Kansas plate number LVJ8721, and carried about $50 or $60 in cash. There were between 70 and 150 guests at the party and there was considerable drug and alcohol use by the mostly teenaged guests. Some witnesses reported Randy was acting drunk, however there were conflicting accounts on this, and it's unclear whether he actually took any substances. He may have left the party between 1:30 and 2:00 a.m., but some witnesses reported seeing him there as late as 2:15, and no one actually saw him leave. Randy never returned home and has not been heard from again. Randy was reported missing by his parents on April 16, 1988. Randy's parents then contacted police. Investigators went to the site of the party Randy had attended, but it had already been cleaned up and there was no evidence to be found. The farm burned down soon thereafter due to mysterious circumstances. Authorities do not believe Randy left of his own accord, since he left behind the 1966 Ford Mustang he was restoring and his friends and family say he had no plans to leave home. He wasn't sure what he wanted to do after graduating high school, but he was thinking of enrolling in trade school. The house where the party was held was destroyed by a fire shortly after Randy's disappearance. Rumors circulated that Randy was abducted and killed by a Satanic cult that was supposedly active in the Linwood area, however this was never proven. Many people were harassed by local police, as well as wrongfully arrested due to the narrative that Randy's disappearance was due to a cult sacrifice.  Several people have come forward about Randy's disappearance and those people have since disappeared or died in mysterious ways. His case remains unsolved to this day.   Join Our Facebook Group to Request a Topic: https://t.co/DeSZIIMgXs?amp=1 Support Our Patreon For More Unreleased Content: https://www.patreon.com/themiserymachine PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/themiserymachine Instagram: miserymachinepodcast Twitter: misery_podcast  #podcast #documentary #truecrime

We're the misery machine. Oh, hey. I'm Drewby. Hi, I'm Yergy. And this week, we are doing a listener request, which is the Randy Leach case. It's the most frustrating case I think we've done yet. Yeah, I should preface this. There is not a ton of information on this case.

There was a lot of shoddy police work done. So there's a lot of loose ends and just random tidbits of evidence and a bunch of theories. A lot of it is hearsay. So if this feels incomplete to you It's because it is And that's kind of why I found this case interesting Because it's more than just a missing person's case Before we get into that

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Join our Facebook community Yes, you'll be happy Yes, Yergy will be very happy but without further ado. Randy Leach. Randy Leach. Randy Leach was a senior at Linwood High School in 1988. He left his home at 6.30 p.m. to attend a friend's

pre-graduation party in a rural area five miles east of his residence on April 15th, 1988. Before arriving at the party, he stopped at Stout's convenience store and purchased some candy, soda, and gas. He then talked to some friends, then went to DeSoto to check on the car he was restoring. So this is in Kansas. This is like pretty small town Kansas, Lynn Wood and De Soto.

As a result of these errands, Randy did not arrive at the party until between 930 and 10 p.m. He was driving his mother's gray four door, 1985 Dodge Sedan with the Kansas plate number LVJ 8721 and carried about $50 or $60 in cash. Which is quite a bit for the time. Yes, it is quite a bit. There are between 70 and 150 guests at the party. and there was considerable drug and alcohol use by mostly teenage guests. Witness reported Randy was acting drunk. Allegedly. Allegedly.

But it's unclear whether he actually consumed any alcohol, and he told a friend he didn't know what was wrong. Yeah, we'll probably get to this later, but there is many mixed reports on whether Randy was drunk or even had a drink at all. He may have left the party between 1.30 and 2 a.m., but some witnesses reported seeing him, him there as late as 2.15, and no one actually saw him leave. Randy never returned home and

has not been heard from since. So Randy was reported missing by his parents on April 16th. He had a 12.30 a.m. curfew at the time he vanished, and he usually did honor that. His parents slept undisturbed through the night and did not realize their son hadn't come home until they woke up at 6 a.m. They first thought he had been in a car accident and called one of his friends, and she said she hadn't heard from him. Randy's parents then contacted the police. Investigators went to the side of the party Randy had attended, but it had already been cleaned up and there was no evidence to be found. Authorities do not believe Randy left of his own accord since he left behind the 1966 Mustang he was restoring and his friends and family say he had no plans to leave home. He wasn't sure what

he wanted to do after graduating high school, but he was thinking of enrolling in trade school. His father describes him as an entrepreneur and a hard worker. He was an excellent student and enjoyed outdoor pursuits, particularly fishing. Randy's parents still live in his old house, and they're hopeful that someday they will get answers as to what happened to him. The house where the party was held was destroyed by a fire shortly after Randy's disappearance. Rumor circulated that Randy was abducted and killed by a satanic cult that was supposedly active in the Linwood area.

Supposedly in a tiny town. I mean, we should note that this is around the time where satanic panic was in full force. Later in 1988, a man told police that he had been kidnapped by the cult and held in a cave for two weeks and had seen a corpse there that might have been Randy's. Police searched the cave and found no indications that a crime had been committed there. They decided that the man had hallucinated the experience while under the influence of drugs. Three men were arrested in early 1993 on suspicion of Randy's kidnapping and murder, but they were released without charge several days later in investigators. admitted they've been mistaken about the men's involvement in Randy's case. Some of these men suspected of involvement simply because they listened to heavy metal music.

Or play D&D. I can't make this up. A Dungeons and Dragons book was confiscated and admitted into police evidence. As some sort of like clue to Randy's murder. I'm not making this up. There was a different time, not even 30 years. ago. Yeah, D&D books was probably the dungeon master's guide as well as probably was. A couple of like janky knives. Yeah, yeah, they did. Oh, they took knives too. Like nobody in that neck of the woods carried knives. They're asking people if they had like satanic cloaks. Yes, yes, they did. Used to play D&D. They would ask every individual they interrogated if they believed in God or if they were familiar with Anton LeVay or if they've read the Satanic Bible, which I, I haven't read it all, but I've read parts of it, and it's kind of hilarious.

Yeah, it just talks about being selfish. Yeah, really just being selfish. And there was these stupid incantations to, you know, make your dick hard. My rod is a thrust. My loins are aflame. Those are the ones I remember. Oh, my. Yes, yes.

That's spicy. It sounds like a sooty boy wants to come in. You should let him in real quickly. All right, so I'm going to let him in. Okay, so we tried to let Kighton in, and he ran in, but then he ran out. His loins were only momentarily. a flame for you. Momentarily. Momentarily. An adult acquaintance of Randi's, who was one of the last people to see him alive, found a severed foot on the banks of the Kansas River in March

1989. The foot was not Randy's. Randy's parents say the man drove past their house going only about 10 miles per hour in a 55 mile per hour zone on the morning they discovered Randy's disappearance. But whose foot is it? Yeah, I know, right? Why didn't anybody run DNA? I know they had DNA then. I mean, whose foot? Like, I do know from the foots that keep washing up in Washington that they found they're just the feet of people that have drowned in the ocean because when you're submerged in water, the first things to go are your hands and feet.

Yeah. They just fall off. So they find a lot of shoes washed up on shore with, like, skeletal foot still inside. Ugh. But, yeah, you would think, especially by today, they're able to take the DNA evidence they have on file and just run it. threw some 23 and me and see who it comes up with. But maybe they found out.

I don't know, but I couldn't find anything about it. This individual has since died, and it's not known if he had anything to do with Randy's disappearance. A few other people who attended that party that night are now also deceased. Go figure. Some reports state that Randy left the party at 6.30 p.m., in fact, that was when he left home to go to the party. He was legally declared dead in 2001.

In 2006's disappearance received additional publicity when a University of Kansas graduate student wrote a play about his case entitled Leaves of Words. It was performed in Lawrence, Kansas, and to this day, Randy's case remains unsolved. And if I remember correctly from the interview with the parents, they totally approved of the play. I believe the graduate asked their permission and they gave it and they were there on opening night. But yeah, so this has been just a week. case and listening to it you kind of walk away with I don't get it or I don't completely understand and that's the point right like I wanted to do this case a couple weeks ago we had a listener suggest this yes and thank you to a mirror in the in the Facebook group yes however every time like what I

usually like to do is get an outline together and then listen to different podcast do it or YouTube videos to get different sources just so I have a little bit of this and that it usually soaks in better when I'm listening to something. However, I was left every single time when I was getting ready to do this being like, what the fuck? The information is incomplete. We don't have enough here to report on, but that in itself is something to talk about. And the reason why you keep coming to this conclusion when you listen to stuff like this is because the police have done a horrendous job with this case. Like, I have not seen a more prime example of just sweeping something under the rug. I have. So this rings crazily true to the Kim Moreau case here in Maine.

The Vanish does a really, really good job of this. Drewby and I listened to it earlier today. But they also covered Kim Maro's case. And it just seems like small town police in the 80s just didn't want to handle missing teenagers. Yeah. They really did not. They would just give families a runaround. They wouldn't do any sort of investigative research.

They wouldn't follow up on anything. And really, they just would try to pin something on somebody. and then when it didn't stick, they just let it go. I was actually talking to somebody just today who I'm not going to give them away for a few reasons, but they work with the state police quite frequently. What they told me is that unless they think they're dealing with a murder, every time the state police will get huffy and act like this is a waste of their time and do whatever they can to just get out of there and just end the situation.

So I don't know why there seems to be this type of attitude in either small town police or state troopers in smaller states. I mean, look at the fucking shit with the Texas Rangers in the Henry Lee Lucas case. Yeah. That's like one of the biggest like organizations in Texas. And they knew they had a legit serial killer on their hands. Just look at their shoddy police work. Yeah, just like feeding him stuff from police records, stuff that was supposed to be confidential. They're just like, hey, you want to know stuff about the case?

Like, do you just get lazy and half-assed your job in any profession that you're in, including, you know, when you're playing with people's lives? I mean, maybe. I don't know. Is that just the way of things? I just don't know. It does not make any sense to me. But the thing with this is, from what I understand, and the problem with this case is that there's a lot of different accounts, but there's very few concrete things. So one thing that I read is that the cops did look over the party site, is the party would. was largely outdoors and they couldn't find anything or so they said because the party was already cleaned up. They would not search the person's home who was throwing the party despite there being

multiple claims that the person throwing the party was serving drugs and alcohol to underage teenagers. Right. So this was a woman who was throwing a party for her daughter who was also graduating at the same time as Randy here. And she had anywhere between 70 to 140 guests. there. You know, who knew who all these people were? I do believe in the interview with Robert Marble, who was the cool metal guy that they harassed. Yeah, this was one guy that they accused of murdering Randy. Because he played D&D and was quite a heavy metal rocker. Yeah, and was, and other people had actually accused him. Somebody gave, I don't remember the person's name, but they gave false statements that they heard that Robert Marble brandished a knife to him and said, I killed Randy with this. knife or something like that. Because of this, that person never was charged with doing so. Instead, Robert Marble was harassed for a very long time before the police finally let it go. Right. But what I was saying with Robert Marble in his part of the interview, he said his graduating class only had like 35 people in it. So who were all these other kids? Yeah, from neighboring towns. Neighboring towns or

something like that. So they have it there. There's a small town. I think the police we get called. Nobody like did anything with it. So that just stinks of a cover up. me. Yeah. I mean, you don't know how many, how many adults were there. That's something that's not said very much. Right. And the people they interviewed from the party just all gave different accounts of what happened. They said, oh yeah, Randy was drunk. And then other people said, I, I didn't even see Randy with a drink in his hand. Some people were saying he was so drunk, he kept almost stumbling into the fire. Yeah, but other people said that Randy didn't drink anything at all. So it was just kind of crazy. And then somebody said they heard Randy exclaim at the party.

won't be sacrificed to the cult, which is quite a weird thing to exclaim during a party. I'm just visualizing it. It just seems so silly to me. Yeah. Like this big, like, beefy dude yelling that. There's just so much shoddy shit here. And the parents believe that the woman who threw the party knows something,

but she won't let anyone come on her property and she won't talk about it. Mind you also, I'm going to, like, mom shame here for a little bit, too. This woman had, like, four other children and, was pregnant and still throwing this party. Because they were trying to get her to do a lie detector test and the local police would not have her do it because she was pregnant and they didn't want to upset her. This is because a lie detector test could make you miss Carrie. Yeah, didn't want to upset her.

Like these small town police, they just piss me off. Yeah. They really, really do because you see them sweeping missing person cases under the rugs. Usually with teenagers, they think they just run away. Or you run into this whole satanic panic bullshit, which I grew up without bullshit happening to during Columbine. My freshman year was ruined because of shit like that. And like you had the West Memphis 3, same bullshit.

All right, we're going to take a quick commercial break and we'll be right back. Hi, I'm Jenny, the host of its murder up north. If you're curious about the murderous north of England, this podcast is definitely for you. I've lived in various parts of the north of England. I went to college in the shadow of Saddleworth Moor, when Myra Hindley and Ian Brady buried those five innocent children. I've worked in the city of Leeds where the Yorkshire Ripper targeted

his victims in the 1970s. Knowing how geographically close I've been to these crimes made me curious. And that curiosity became this podcast. However, my main hope is to help you see the person, not a victim. Give the short and sweet on the West Memphis

3 for the listeners, for those that don't know. All right, so the very base level, They were three teenagers from West Memphis, Arkansas, who were wrongfully imprisoned for a number of years, I'd say, close to 20-ish years. It was quite a long time for the murder of three young boys that they didn't commit. And basically was all based in satanic panic and very small-town mindsets and shitty police work. Yeah, there was ultimately no evidence from what I understand that I haven't looked in the case in a while. And this was the quintessential satanic. panic case where people were wrongly convicted. So it kind of ties in here and where I kind of look at

the shoddy police work and where they were just trying to close the case, be like, oh, let's find some heavy metal guys to look into it. Again, Yergi and I were talking off air about how this is just a confusing case. And the reason for this is that whatever you look up, you'll hear names of people who were suspected or somehow involved in the case. And you can't find any. anything else about it. There's just like short mentions here and there. Some of these are from people who were in the area, not any official statements from the police. So if you want to compare this to the Delphi murders where they have at least yearly press conferences about it, updates, they're very good about talking to the public and being as transparent as possible without compromising

the case. This is the exact opposite, in my opinion. We have listed here. We have listed here. here, a bunch of bullet points of facts. Facts. Like, facts, quotes. Let's call them oddities, if you will, and bizarre coincidences surrounding the, the Randy Leach case. I found a couple of these summarized online. They were kind of difficult to find. I may be repeating some of these.

Apologies if we do that. So the rumors of satanic activity in southern Leavenworth County already were circulating among locals before Randy's disappearance. word that the party site had quickly been cleaned, fueled rumors, including speculation that Randy had been slaughtered there by devil worshippers, and that the party itself was just one giant gathering of the cult. It's quite ridiculous, but this was a theory for a little bit. And that house, Anne Irwin's house, who threw the party, it burned to the ground not that long after Randy disappeared, according to the Leavenworth County Sheriff Herb Nye.

And I say not that long after, in quotes, because we don't really know how long after. There's no recorded date of when it burned down or why it burned down. Nobody's brought to justice for it. There was no cause of arson or anything like that. Just it was burned down. So in 1988, a man's whole police he had been abducted by Satanist and held captive for two weeks in a cave not far from Linwood.

The man said his abductors threatened to cut off his left off. arm and then showed him the corpse of a man hanging in the cave. The corpse perhaps was Randy. Police searched the cave, but no bodies were found. They concluded the man was a drug user who hallucinated the experience. The cave has said it's been bulldozed at the entrances. It's a funny thing about this. After this had come out, allegedly, they did not let the public near that cave until it was bulldozed. Basically, the police taped it off, claimed there was nothing in there, but then decided it was worth bulldozing. Some people think the car is in there.

It's hard to say. You think nowadays they'd have like... And I say some people say, yet again, in quotation marks, because this is all just speculation and theories and rumors. It really, again, it just plays into the shoddy police work. People are like, oh, well, there's a lot of conspiracy theories because that comes with the territory of true crime. Well, there's an exceptional number of conspiracy theories for this. And the reason for that is because everything is so vague

and there's just not enough evidence. So Steve Daughtry, or Daughery, I think it's Daughtry, one of the last people seen with Randy the night he disappeared, showed police in March 1989 a severed foot in a tennis shoe on the banks of the Kansas River. Daughtry said he found it while strolling. Police searched the area for other remains but couldn't find any. They concluded the foot was not Randy's.

Harold Leach, Randy's father, said at one time, Doughtry lived in the back of an old store in Linwood, and the part he lived in caught on fire and burned. Doughtry in his 30s when Randy disappeared has since died. The other thing about Doughtry is that he was caught driving by the Leach's house several times, going very slowly trying to scope the place out. And there was, I'd have to dig through a long interview to find this out again, but I remember Randy's mother saying that, somebody kept showing up at their house, sometimes in their house. And I think it was this person. And they could never make heads or tails for why he was there or what he was all about

or if he was involved in the disappearance. But he since died. The leeches replaced the Dodge 500 that Randy took to the party and was never recovered with the Chrysler-Liberin that had about 40,000 miles on it. Just after they bought the car, it caught fire and burned in their backyard. An inspector said a gas line had deteriorated and ruptured, but the leeches believe it was arson. Randy's blonde German shepherd named Crackers went missing about four months after he did, and the dog had never been found. He had him for about four years.

Internal police reports about the Randy Leach case began showing up in the Leach's mailbox. Harold Leach said he doesn't know the source of the documents but believes they were from sympathetic officers who were convinced the investigation was being botched. In 1993, a man purporting to be a research journalist offered his assistance to the leeches and spent several months without pay interviewing partygoers and others who might have known something about the case. The man went by the names Terry Martin and Lee Harper. Martin Harper pooled information with Leavenworth County Sheriff's Detective's Don Weston, whom nine had a side to the review case. Try to look up this Terry Martin, Lee Harper.

They're not even sure if either of those was his real name. and even Detective Don Weston. There's no info on her we love. Yeah, there's nothing. I'll read this first, then we'll talk more about Weston and Martin Harper. Executing warrants issued by the assistant Leavenworth County attorney, Weston arrested three men for the alleged murder and kidnapping of Randy Leach. The men were quickly released.

Sheriff Nye said that she was a new investigator and overzealous, and it didn't pan out when the evidence was double-checked by the county attorney. But after these three men were freed, Weston and Martin Harper left the state together for several days, reportedly fearful of their safety. And again, there's, I don't know if these people are alive. There's no trace of them. I have not found anything about Don Weston on the internet as far as news relating to the police department. I've found things about Herb Nye, but not Don Weston. So I do not know what happened to her or this mysterious investigation. A Topeka man who volunteered to help the leeches search for their son subsequently was found shot to death along with his wife.

The Topeka police ruled it a murder suicide. It's just funny how so many people involved to the case. Disappeared or died. Disappear or die. It's just kind of nuts to me. So we found some other interesting information that kind of tied along with the mysterious foot. Remember how I reviewed it was a lot like that case where all those feet were washing up in Washington? Yeah.

Washington. Washington. Washington. Apparently another reason feet detached from the body so quickly in, you know, submerged deaths is because shoes float. So they want to pull the way from the corpse. Yeah. So that's just a little snippet that I found that I wanted to share. One thing I forgot to mention about the cave being bulldozed is that there was rumors the sheriff

requested this to happen, but the sheriff has openly denied this. So there's a Twitter comment allegedly left by. somebody who was good friends with Randy's parents. His cousin was at the party that night, Randy disappeared. He saw that Randy wasn't acting normal, possibly drugged. The house that the party was at was also burned down during investigation. My grandpa helped search for Randy throughout the Leavenworth County, looking into any sites where there might be, quote, satanic cult activity. Close by is the river and also where a dredging company used to be. If his vehicle were to have been put into the river at this spot. It would be a hard time finding it since a lot of sand has been taken out

of said spot. There have been TV shows radio. I mean, speaking of TV shows, we forgot to mention that the family reached out to Unsolved Mysteries. Yes. Thank you for remembering this. So this was going to be picked up by Unsolved Mysteries, but the Sheriff's Department stopped this from happening because when they caught wind of that, they reached out to Unsolved Mysteries and said that they had strong proof that Randy was living in Los Angeles. Right? Was it Los Angeles? Yeah, they pulled out a National Geographic magazine with a person in the background that supposedly was Randy. Yeah, so they basically at that point Unsolved Mysteries dropped it, not wanting to cover it. And people guess that the sheriff's department just didn't want all this heat on them from a national perspective. And I just

stop and think if this case did go national, would we be sitting here right now talking about how they found Randy. It's interesting to me that they wouldn't pick it up because Unself Mysteries has picked up other cases that were very strange. Yeah. They picked up one that was out of Maine in the 80s where this woman had abandoned her car over at a diner in Brunswick. I believe it was actually a Howard Johnson at the time.

This whole big thing. And there was an update later where they thought it was a kidnapping or some sort of abduction or something or other. But really she just took off and killed herself in a hotel. Jesus. I mean, they covered that. Like, why not cover an actual missing person's case? Yeah, you would think so.

I mean, some of Unsolved Mysteries stuff, I mean, looking back on it anyways, was quite sensationalized. So was America's Most Wanted. It seemed like they'd pick up anything they think they could run with. So I'm kind of shocked. They still didn't go with it. But allegedly, the police tried very hard to not let that happen. And apart from everything we listed, there's other theories that I've seen in common sections. that Randy was abducted by UFOs or he was human traffic despite being a huge male,

which is not the type of people who get human trafficked as well as a part of the country where human trafficking doesn't take place. It usually takes place in the four corners. I'm sorry, I should say the four corners of the continental U.S., not the location, the four corners in the Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming, Arizona area. I'm sure some trafficking happens there too. But anyway. But yeah, you never know.

But really, it's just pure speculation at this point. Do you think that the cops had something to do with this disappearance? Did they just want to get this covered up quickly and close? That way they didn't look incompetent. I don't know. It seems like the most convenient thing and probably the most likely thing is that he drove his car off somewhere and the car washed away. But it's really hard to think that a car like that wouldn't have been. been discovered by now. It would have had to like end it up off to see, I think, in order for it to

never be found in this time. I know. And with it being in Kansas, it's not going to end up off to sea. Right. So just how can it not be discovered? So there was that Google Maps thing that I showed you where that person had found that a car that had been submerged in somebody's backyard pond for 20 years with the body still inside of it. Yeah. And it's just kind of crazy because you see how close it was to his backyard and right by the shore too like how do you not walk out back and just see that i just find that so strange i don't understand how you don't see disturbed soil like if someone's driving drunk which i think it was a drunk driving situation that's what they ended up concluding it to be like how do you not know that happens and i think that person's what i read quickly was that the person's last

known whereabouts is he was heading out to a bar or something so they assumed he was driving home drunk and just crashed and drowned. And that was the theory that this one sheriff had, or former investigator, I'm sorry, had with regards to Randy. They think he maybe had a few, too many from the party, left, took some back roads, misjudged, went off into a pond or a body of water. Yeah, so the former investigator who's now retired just rests as laurels on that, that, oh, I feel in my gut that Randy just drove up into this one particular river.

but it's hard to not think that this could also be the case of an old retired cop trying to pat himself on the back and make himself feel better for shoddy police work. I don't know. All these things are plausible. On one of the YouTube videos that I watched doing some research, it said that somebody stuck him in a cement-filled barrel and sent him down the river. Yeah, it's just weird shit. I mean, some people have said that maybe Randy got drugged or overdosed or something at the party. and died and people panicked and decided to clean it up. That's a very likely case. For small town nowhere, people tend to mind their business in small town places because, again, it's none of my business and they just worry about their own. This is just how things are.

Are there snitches and people that get quite lively or try to witch on other people? Absolutely. But the majority of people just want to be left alone and keep to themselves. Are there people out there that know what happened to Randy? Maybe. Probably absolutely. My best guess probably is that theory where he got either drunk and went off into a body water or this one that you're bringing up that he died because he took drugs and they hid the body. But all in all, this is just a sad case. The parents especially have been through hell. They had a go fund me a couple years ago to raise money for legal fees. They have

been fighting with the sheriff's department to release their case five. and they won't. They have, I believe, tried to sue the sheriff's department in civil court for mishandling this. And they've just been getting nothing. The police won't work with them. And they just can't get any sort of closure. It's just very sad. So yeah, that's all we have for this case.

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