The Morning Stream - TMS 2110: Run Bummer

Episode Date: May 6, 2021

Sabrina the Teenage Felony. 5 Pirate Movies, 6 Wives, 8 Recorder Holes. Billionaire's are people too dammit! Weird Birth Smirk. Maybe we don't have to talk to people. Don't Count The Mouth Hole. Divorced, Behead, Died was my Talking Heads coverband. I don't like Frat Boy Partieeeeeees. Bobsplaining Science with the Frankenberger. Robert Plant has the BIGGEST HEAD. Real Cats Can't Talk. Johnny Depptide Cake. How many wives got the axe? Discussing the 27-Year Itch With Wendi and more on this episode of The Morning Stream. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode of the morning stream is brought to you by Blue Chew. We've got a special deal for our listeners. Try Blue Chew free when you use our promo code TMS at checkout. Just pay $5 shipping. That's BluCu.com promo code TMS to receive your first month free. Coming up on TMS, Sabrina, the teenage felony. Five pirate movies, six wives, eight recorder holes. Billionaires are people too, damn it.

Weird birth smirk. Maybe we don't have to talk to people. Don't count the mouth hole. Divorced, behead, died was my talking heads cover band. I don't like fratboy parties. Bob splaining science with the Frankenberger. Robert Plant has the biggest head. Real cats can't talk.

Johnny Deptide Cake. How many wives got the axe? Discussing the 27-year itch with Wendy and more on this episode of the Morning Stream. But now the victory belongs to the fantastic four. Fool! Have you forgotten my invincible magnetic power? No mere weapon can stop. Stop me. With but a gesture, I can destroy it. I'll turn it against you. Behold! Now!

Not this time, Magneto. This time I'm fighting for real. I'm interested in most phases of data processing. Fire breathing dragons. Biggle, Freaking Dirt Blankets. The morning. Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to TMS. That's right. The song doesn't lie.

It's Thursday, May 6th, 2021. I'm Scott Johnson. He's Brian Nibet. I am, and he is. And you are. And you are. Or a viewer. And you are.

What's that from? Wait. And you are. I don't know. Is it from something? Yes. And you are. And you are.

And you are. And you are. oh my gosh you are it just sounds like something that George DeK would say right and you are a little bit what am I thinking of

that's gonna weird me out for the rest of the day anyway hey welcome back to ow welcome back to the show everybody we're back I pinch my toe in my chair

and it's a perfect start yeah I felt pretty good we're doing a show and that's right you guessed it it's Thursday we got Wendy later we got a little bit of Bobby

and some science coming up. Lots of fun stuff today scheduled on the program. So much. So much. But to start things, we have to do this. My dream machine is working perfectly. All right. I had a dream. I love the wheel out of the theme. My dream theme. I had a weird one that had to be brought to the table. I've had a couple of weird ones lately, but I didn't bring them up on the show because they're not that different than most of my weird ones. But this one last night, boy howdy. I'll try to explain. In the dream, I was tasked. by the highest levels of really world government, not just the United States, but everybody

came together kind of UN style and tasked me with the important job of cutting up Johnny Depp and feeding him to everyone. So the way it works was, was he like a cake? Was he like a peptide cake with mint frosting? That would have been easier because then it would have been like kind of square. off and easier to sort of suck you to cut yeah yeah instead i had to like you know it was a body it was him it was johnny dep and he's alive the whole time and he's laying on his back uh-huh naked let's let me point that out oh well yeah don't know what that's about uh no scissor hands but he's of

the age of around then that's what he looks like all right kind of 21 post 21 jump street younger right exactly pre pirates yes pre pre pre now now that he's in his raisin phase but you know, way before that. It's raising face. Anyways, laying there. Back when we all still like Johnny Depp, basically. Yeah. So he's laying on this big slab, you know, like a stone slab.

And he's just sort of, you know, in repose there. And he's alive. And the goal is, according to my mandate, was you've got to cut him up and everybody needs a piece. All seven billion of the world's population needs a piece of Johnny Debt. And I felt a lot of pressure because that's a lot of subsection of Johnny Depp. Like, I'm going to run out probably in the first 50 people. Like, I don't know how small to make this stuff. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, to be able to divide Johnny Depp into, and then you've got to do it equally, right? You can't give, you know, this person, the whole butt cheek. You've got to really. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you can't give them a whole butt cheek. That is way too much for one person. Wow. So the dream never had any real resolution.

It was just the process and the stress of trying to section him up in a way that I could fulfill this duty. And if I, I don't remember this very well, but it seems like maybe I was going to be hung or something if I didn't do it right. So there was all this pressure, personal pressure, I'm going to get killed, massive social pressure to get everybody a piece of Johnny Depp. Sure. And then Johnny Depp himself, who's laying there kind of taking them. you know, like he's not having any fun. So it was weird. It was very weird.

So a little bit of analysis. Yeah. That's what I'm looking for. Could Johnny Depp somehow represent the vaccine and you're trying to get the world vaccinated? Like, because right now the world has a job and it's to get everybody vaccinated. And maybe Johnny Depp is the vaccine. Maybe. Okay.

Let's say that you're right. It's a good. front for this common idea that everybody, the more, the more people we get vaccinated, the better, the closer we get to herd immunity, the better off we are and the more normal things can get. Right. Right. Right. But why is he the stand in? Like, why is it Johnny Depp that stands in for the, for the, for the, for the, um, for the vaccine? And, and B, why am I involved at all? I don't know why I'm doing this at all. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Why are you the, the Fauci? And which part of him is the Moderna, which part of him is the Pfizer?

Because it's clear which part of him is the Johnson & Johnson. Yeah, exactly. Oh, and that's the other thing. Maybe it's because I was reading, there's a lot of, there's a lot of, you know, the conspiracy minded among us, you know, the Q&ON types and whatnot. They're seeing all sorts of magic in the Bill Gates, Melinda Gates, divorce because they already think he's

part of the deep state and also injecting stuff. He's, you know, injecting the, he's behind the microchip that's getting injected into our... He made it in his lab or something. I don't know what they think. But him and his, him and his wife getting divorced after 27 years, long, long fricking time. And it sounds like it's not a very happy divorce there toward the end. So I don't know, you know, again,

it turns out they're, they may be building. millionaires, but they're, you know, they're people at the end of the day. Yeah, of course. So who knows what's going on? But conspiracy theorists have decided that this is all a sign of something. Like, she's getting out now that she's learned about the devious, you know, a cabal of whatever bullshit people believe. I was just reading about that yesterday before bed. So maybe that carried over.

But again, Johnny Depp, I don't know the last Johnny Depp movie I saw. I don't know the last reference I saw to him. I can't think of anything in my life in the last three years that had anything to do a Johnny Depp. Even on the show, we don't talk about him. We, it's funny because two nights ago at trivia we actually had a question about how many

Pirates of the Caribbean movies there have been because we had a big math problem as the final thing. It was how many UN recognized countries begin with the letter Z. How many Oh, that sounds hard.

How many Johnny, or I mean, how many Pirates of the Caribbean movies there have been um six right or five four right see we were doing the same thing i was able to definitively definitively come up with four and i forgot about the i don't know how i forgot about the damn Javier bardem deal from a couple uh a couple years ago oh right that stranger tides thing i remember the the original trilogy and i was like oh yeah there was one after that with penelope cruise and so there's four but um Then the third one was how many wives, Henry VIII, and the final one was how many holes are there on a recorder, like on a, you know, the, oh, my sister's fake flute from school, yeah, that thing. Right, your sister's fake flute.

Yeah, her fake flute. Like the easy flute to, easiest flute to play. So, two, two Zs, because only two? only two um zaire let's see you know what it's uh zambia zimbabwe are still recognized by this country zayir is now a part of the republic of congo congo right um five five pirates movies um six wives and eight holes on a recorder eight holes eight finger holes not that you don't count the mouth hole or the output hole. The exit hole. Okay. Yes, the exit hole. Wow. Those are hard. Everything you just said is hard. I wouldn't have known any of those, I don't think. You would have gotten the, you would have gotten the Pirates of the Caribbean. I might have. If I really thought about it and then pushed it through my head and went, all right, well, I remember, you know what's weird. You always talk about how I associate movies with years. I remember the first movie come out in 2003. I don't know why I remember that.

Because you remember years. You're really, really good with years. If there was like a trivia game where we had to, name the year that a movie came out, you'd do great. Actually, there is, you know, countdown or spotlight or whatever it is. The buzz time trivia has a whole part of it that's like, they tell you the most popular song, the most popular movie, some event, and then you have to name the year. And you would kill it that. Yeah, I don't know why that's the thing in me. The Henry the eighth one, what was the answer on that?

Six wives. Six wives. Okay. Did they all get the acts or just a couple of them there? just a couple of them there's an easy way there's like a mnemonic device for remembering

oh no way really yeah and I can't remember what it is it's sad for a mnemonic device not to remember the mnemonic device and the Larry was thing and the stuff cut their head off it's like uh

beheaded divorced beheaded like it is right there divorced beheaded died divorced beheaded survived That's right, because then it rhymes, right? Divorce, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived.

Claire, I'm going to suggest that the two that were beheaded also died. Yeah, they passed away. So really, divorce, died, died, survived. They ended their lives there, I think. What's hard about that, though, is if you don't know what their names are, then that just sounds like, that's the order, but I don't know who they are. I have no idea who they are. Like, which one's Anne Boleyn?

She's one of the head ones, right? She got their head cut off. Yeah, I think so. Queen Anne, I think so. Suck it in, suck it in, suck it in. If you're in 10-10 or And Ballin. Oh, there it is, yeah. And then begin to see what you're doing to be.

This empty view is not for free. It's so busy. It's killing me. On the Tudors, on the Tudor, she was played by that, um, Natalie Dormer. She's great. Yes. Yeah. Oh, I like her a lot.

Yeah. That's first time I'd ever seen her. And I thought, man, she's rad. She'll do more things. Mm-hmm. She has. And she did. Yeah.

She's got that weird birth smirk, I like to call it. She does. Yeah. Right. be difficult if you were dating or married to her right to like something wrong what did I just say something yeah are you okay just feeling sarcastic you got that look on your face yeah yeah it's a birth smirk you came out as a baby going and everyone went oh boy here we go smirk it's like oh okay well here I made spaghetti for both of us well why are you smirking about it should I not

eat this is there something about the spaghetti that I shouldn't eat birth smirk yeah birth smirk All right. Also, Brian was cranky. Yes. Why? Why are you cranky? I was cranky. So, Claire, Glare number one, didn't you hear me thank her earlier. So I'm going to thank her now because she was very, very helpful with giving me information about Belfast. Because last night I was going through the process of booking our hotels and bed and breakfasts and all that stuff for the Ireland trip. And my.

The way I do things is usually like looking on the, the travel sites that I trust, Discoverer, Condonass, things like that, and do searches for Ireland and then just say, oh, okay, here's one that this guy recommended, or here's another one that this guy stayed at and said it was really cool. Barring that, when you go to a new town that doesn't have a Discover article about it, you've kind of got to go to. My go to is kayak, kayak.com, and I do a search in the area, and then I just look at the reviews on the hotels, because usually that's where you get the, beyond this truth. Everybody says, oh, lavish, luxurious beds with soft pillows and quiet surroundings, and then you read the reviews. It's like six flights of stairs to get up to our room and no parking at all. The worst. Yeah, never trust that. So I started, I started the kayak.

So here's the, let me set the scene. I'm sitting on the couch. Tina's over in her chair. She's got a table pulled in front of her. She's doing a jigsaw puzzle. And the TV is showing us the final season, the final four episodes of Snowpiercer season two, which we're watching. Yeah. I have a thing I want to ask you about that, but I'm going to save it for a different day because it's a long conversation about the dude who plays the main guy that was also in Hamilton.

Oh, yeah. DeVeed. What is his name? I forget, but I just think he's horribly. I think he's horribly miscast, but I want to have that. We'll talk about it a different time. Sure. Anyway, continue on.

All right, so I'm thinking, all right, well, I'll just knock out a few hotels, get this taken care of, and then I can watch Snowpiercer. But here's the thing. You go through kayak, and then Kayak gives you a list of hotels, and you read through the hotels, and you say, oh, this one has good reviews. It's in the price range we want. It's in the part of town we want to stay in, close to the things we want to see while we're there.

uh great book redirecting you to booking.com it's like okay all right well booking dot com whatever redirects me over to booking.com which then opens in a tiny little window in front of the kayak app because i'm doing this on the iPad so now i've got the big kayak app with like you know all the beautiful pictures of this hotel and then this little tiny little screen that is the booking dot com uh load in into kayak Okay. It's like a plug-in kind of. Okay. Yeah. And so I'm having to like type in my credit card information. I create an account on booking.com. I put save my information there so I have to enter it every time and book the first hotel. Great. Okay. Let's move on to the other one. Close a little booking square and then back to kayak. Oh, this one looks good. Let's do this one. And pick that one. And then it opens another freaking teeny tiny window. Oh, you need to be redirected to orbits on this one. I'm like, oh my God. Are they all partners, or is this just like, I don't understand why they're using each other like that. Yeah, they're all partners, but it's like, for whatever reason, kayak just can't let you book on kayak. Well, it does on one of the hotels. We're staying there for like eight nights or nine nights. Oh, I see.

So then it redirects to the orbits, tiny little screen again, create an account, put in my credit card information. I'm like, all right, just getting frustrating. Sure. So I'm doing this over and over and over again and trying to get. get these things booked and each one is taking a lot longer than I wanted to because for whatever reason booking.com is not saving my credit card information so I have to keep reentering that in orbits is not saving my credit card info so I have to keep ordering that again or entering that again and then Tina from her jigsaw puzzle looks over or looks up at the screen and says oh

well how did that character get put in there I'm like I don't know I've been buying tickets for my hotels for the last hour and a half. Tina was very quiet to me for the rest of the evening. She would be giving me the Natalie Dormer Birthsmark for the rest of the evening. By the way, using booking.com for other stuff that Kim and I did about a year ago, it also didn't save my credit card information. And that was on a desktop on Chrome. So Claire, Claire, keep it. It's got nothing to do with his iPad. Who cares? It should just work. It should just freaking work.

And I woke up this morning, he got into my email, and I had one that I didn't think went through, and I was just going to rebook later today for Cork, the town of Cork, which floats, by the way I hear. Is it Cork? It is C-O-R-K, right? C-O-R-K, C-R-K, C-R-K.

I want to go there. Yeah, I imagine. They have no problem sealing bottles in that town. The hotels that I didn't think that I'd gotten through, because I got no confirmation. Like the screen, as soon as I said, book this place, it disappeared. So I'm like, all right, well, I'll just do that one on the desktop tomorrow. And I woke up this morning and I had two of the same hotel booked for the same time for the same room.

So I was like, all right, well, back over to this site to cancel one of those. Fortunately, everything is, everything is like fully refundable, fully cancelable in case something comes up, yeah. Some new strain of COVID wipes us out or something. Oh, well, the good news is Moderna, Mr. Moderna over there. Yeah. They have some data back now that Moderna is effective against that one they were really worried about from South America. Oh, really? Yeah, the South American strain is real bad, I guess, and they say that it's showing full resistance to it.

So that's good. The chat room doesn't seem to understand the state of iPads these days. I think they don't understand. They think that this is 2010, and we're still using an iPad 1, which is basically an iPhone at the time. Brian has a keyboard. It has a full keyboard. You can use Chrome on there, just like any other browser. You can use Firefox and Edge.

Right, all that stuff. It works like a notebook, and it saves your information when you do stuff like credit card information on any other site. So calm down. Exactly, yes. Yeah, my kayak bookings, totally fine. That saved my credit card information. I did book a couple hotels via kayak. Yeah. Let's not give these websites too much damn credit, is what I'm saying.

That's right. Exactly. All right. Let's do this. Plus, you don't want Chrome saving stuff. They keep everything. It saves everything. I do Brave and Safari. Yes. Those are my two. Braves based on the chromium engine anyway, so you're fine. It may as well just like using it. But shields are up on Brave. Shields up. Yeah, shield's up. Keep them out.

Get them in, put it in, stick it out. All right. Hey, Brian was a little cranky, but he's not now. And that's good, because we're about to bring in a guest. Hold on. Deadwally says Apple only allows one browser. All others are wrappers around it. No, this is not true. That's not true.

I have Chrome and Safari and I think even a third browser on my iPad that I never use. I have Edge, Safari, Chrome. Yeah. Oh, I know what he's saying. The engine inside, he's right that the engine underneath is based on the whatever, that's the web kit stuff. He's right. Oh, the WebKit stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, like, sinking across browsers and using features that are based on those browsers and plugins and stuff, it's all in there. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha. WebKit. Look, when you're in a room full of Apple haters, there's really nothing you can do. It doesn't matter what you say. I know, I fell into the trap, Scott.

I fell into the trap. It doesn't matter what you say. I like Android. There, look at us. There's my Olive Leaf. Y'all going to keep doing that? All right, here goes. Surface laptops.

I probably should have used yesterday, but co-tells. Well, there you go. Let's play this now. Where is it? I lost it. Crap. Where's our, there it is. I think science is cool.

Hey, you know how I do it's cool? It's because Bobby comes on the show on Thursdays and we talk a little bit about cool science. Bobby Frankenberger, everybody. Welcome back to the program. Hey, how is everyone doing? I had a quick question that is apropos of nothing. Is that something you guys allow on this show? Yeah, we allow something that is non-secret.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Allow that we require it. You know when there's a smiley, you make a smiley face with a colon and a closed parentheses. I'm educating you, by the way. Gotcha, thank you. Thanks.

Bob splain it to us. Emoats with Bobby. Bob splain it. What does it mean when you have like five closed parentheses? Oh, yeah. Like, like, eyes and the double chin. I think it's like super smiley face. But they don't want to do in the effort of doing a D. I always read it as like multiple chins. Yeah, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, ten chins. It's exactly like the one mirror of being just put in chat. Yeah, it does. It looks like you're getting a smile from Jabba the Hut, which you're getting. Or my aunt Susan.

Anyway, hey, Bobby, welcome back. It's good to have here, man. I feel like it's been ages. How you been? You're doing our year? Yeah, well, you know, there's that once a month. Pesky Australian. Yeah, we let the Australian in, just messes everything up.

Our monthly Australian. That's right. But it's good to have you back. Bobby, of course, comes on here and we talk about stuff going on in the science world. As a science podcast, we'll get to toward the end of this. But today we're going to talk about the fact that, and I think this might be true, people are starting to trust computers more than they trust humans. Yeah, at least in certain circumstances, that's what some research has been showing.

I feel that way a lot. of times. There's a lot of people I don't freaking trust, but I'll trust on my computer to get something done. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Did a person come up with this survey or did a computer come up with this survey? The real question is, do you care? I do. Because if a person came up with a survey, I'm not trusting it at all. Yeah. Forget it. But if a computer came up with some research that shows that you could trust it more, then you definitely... For sure, yeah. Yeah. Why would it lie? Why would it lie to me? Why would it? I don't know.

So what's the answer to this thing? What is the, what's the finding that we should be worried about? Well, you know, we trust algorithms a lot more nowadays, as you guys are demonstrating to do day-to-day things. But there's a lot of concern growing that the effect these algorithms are having on our biases and the way we do things could be really concerning. You know, like with facial recognition and social media feeds. how AI feeds us information that it thinks that we want, you know, and how much is that actually dictating the way that we, the way that we think and do things? So there's a lot of concern nowadays about how, whether, how much we trust out computer algorithms and whether we should

or not. So some research, but not a lot of research has gone into looking at specifically our cognitive relationship, like our, our brain's relationship with, with, with our trust. We know a lot about how we interact with other people and whether or not we trust other people, but the computers now are different. So some researchers decided they wanted to look into that. Interesting. So it goes beyond like, I mean, okay, if you said to me I had to go to the DMV to get my license renewed, I would be more inclined to, a, look forward to the process and be trusted and expect some efficiency if you said to me, oh, it's all automated now. It's just computers.

You walk in, they do your picture, they give you your thing, they print it out, you walk out of there. That is more interesting to me, or not more interesting. That sounds more efficient to me than me going in there and having to talk to, you know, mod, who's behind the desk and super pissed and can't find your paperwork or whatever. Certainly some of that is because, because, uh, of the growing distaste and dealing with people in general. But maybe that's because of our how much we can automate these kinds of things now. We just have, before it was you had to talk to people, so you just dealt with it.

But now we're realizing maybe, maybe we don't have to have to talk to people as much as we thought we did. Yeah. Well, we've learned, right? Like, I was having a bit of a technology appreciation moment yesterday where I was thinking about what 2020, would have looked like if we haven't come as far as we have with remote technology and communication tools and all this other stuff. And I realized would be a lot like 1918. We'd be having poor communication. A lot of people just straight up wouldn't know about it, especially people in rural areas. And you would have massive way more deaths, way more infections, way more

everything. And, you know, we'd still here in the states and other parts of the world still be looking like what India is dealing with today, which is, I don't know whether 400,000 new cases today were reported. Just insane numbers. It's a little relative over there because they're, you know, their country has a billion people in it. So, yeah, 400,000 is, you know, a relatively not small percentage, but it's a lot of freaking people.

But the point is, like, if we were then, or if this was then, we'd be kind of hosed and we wouldn't know any better. And so what I'm trying to do lately is just be, I'm trying to be more mindful of this just to see the stuff and go, oh, yeah, I wouldn't even have this option before. I wouldn't have Zoom. I couldn't do this show. Like, there'd be no show. We'd have a, I don't know what I'd be doing.

I'd be picking up pig poo somewhere and going blind because they can't do cataract surgeries either. Like, like, it's good once in a while to remember that stuff and appreciate it so that you also don't get so cynical about it that you think it's all going to destroy you and that algorithms are the death of humanity and that, you know, you can go way too far into thinking that our, techno-socio future is screwed. I just kind of refuse to do it. I feel like it's just human progress. And this weird concept we have of the machines taking over is fun for movies, but sucks in reality. I don't think it actually happens. Yeah, but certainly an argument can be made sort of in the other direction, which is that if we didn't have social media and these algorithms feeding these.

sensational news headlines to us, then we might not be in the vaccine hesitancy situation that we're in right now because there wouldn't be as much anti-vax stuff being pushed at us because that's what the algorithm says. But the point is that it's certainly complicated and we don't know a lot about our relationship with how much we trust and our biases with how much we believe in trust algorithms in general. So to learn about that, you have to start with basic science and and start really low. So that's what, there was a study that came out, starting to look at that. And what it was is they took 1,500 individuals and asked that, this is very simple.

They asked them, their task was they needed to count individuals in a crowd of people. They were given pictures of crowds of people. And their job was to count how many people were in there. And I think they were timed to do that as well. And they had to sort of come up with a number, how many people are in this crowd. very simple task right and this crowd is moving around I mean it's like it's not a crowd of people

that's standing there ready to be counted it's well it's they're just random like they're not posed but they are pictures oh they're not videos so so the catch is that they they were given lots of different pictures

of crowds with different numbers of people and they wanted to see how people performed but more interestingly what they wanted to look at was the people who were counting had the option to choose suggestions that were generated to help them count. There were two sources of these suggestions. One was generated by a group of people. Like a bunch of other people would look at these and they would have their own ideas of how many.

And you could look at what have other people said in terms of how many, what do they think, how many people were in this picture? you could either choose that or you could choose to get help from an AI algorithm to count the number of people. Right, right. One of the fears, I just want to say this before I forget. One of the things people worry about, and I kind of worry about, I don't have a full understanding of it, so I'm not going to claim any kind of expert ship on this, okay? But learning algorithms, AIs that are basically designed to learn and then output based on that learning, learning, you know, machine learning, is what I'm trying to say, which is all the rage right now

and it has some very cool implications. Also has a couple of warning signs attached to it because if they're learning from us and if we are inherently, I don't know, bias in some direction or another, whatever our biases are, whether they be racial or they're socioeconomic or whatever they may be, the learning, the machine learning is learning from that, even if it's just pieces of that. And therefore, we're building AI's algorithms and so on that potentially have learned to be like us

and in some cases, the worst version of us. And I don't mean they're going to be, you know, they're not going to wear a mega hat and tell everybody to go back to the country they came from. I don't mean that. But I mean like they'll have little things. Like if you have an AI that's in charge, of hiring process at a university

or something. Does it include those biases that are built into the people who help make it or it learn from so that you start to see some of those same patterns in hiring? And by that, I mean there's racial stuff, there's gender stuff, there's all that.

So socioeconomic. Yeah, those are all big questions still. And they're interesting questions to me because I think they're the kinds of things that do get ironed out. There is no like monolithic. Oh, no, we've built an AI and now we're screwed. it doesn't work that way. We've built a thing, it needs help, and we'll tweak at it until we get it right.

Yeah. To teach these machine learning algorithms, you have to feed it a sample data set, like a set of whatever it is you're trying to teach it on. You have to give it a representative sample that hopefully is an unbiased sample. But like you just implied, human beings are determining what an unbiased sample. looks like and if you have ingrained biases already there's a good chance that the quote unquote unbiased sample is is biased because you a human being have have decided that it's unbiased and if you have innate biases that might not be as unbiased as you think and that's why it's important for us to research how much do we trust these and this and this research found out

that the more complicated these pictures got like the more people were in these crowds, the more willing the participants were to use an AI algorithm to help them perform the task rather than asking groups of people for assistance in helping them. So knowing that, knowing as a baseline that it looks like there are certain situations where we will jump to completely trusting an AI algorithm that has been designed by human beings, uh is important for us to know right you know right even if we got so good at it that we made an i for example that had none of these built-in biases right it didn't have any of this stuff it didn't learn it from us we didn't inject it in it it was so good that it actually just

became autonomous and its own thing and went off and did its own thing and that own thing was completely free of all of our weirdness and it found that part of our weirdness is i don't know um I'll just think of an example, how women are treated in certain societies, let's say. And it knows the right way. So it performs the right way. Suddenly you have giant governments in certain parts of the world that are, I don't know, let's just say Saudi Arabia is not super big on women's rights. They're not going to want to integrate this into their government accounting system. You know what I'm saying?

Like you're going to run into these things where that to them is a bias, even though the machine itself being free of bias is actually exposing the bias. of those who, it creates a vicious circle. And I think we see some of this now, just in little bits here and there, like with social media in particular, there's so much hot freak out on Facebook, Twitter, and other stuff during politically contentious times or during the pandemic or anything where there's a lot of contention, you hear all these stories about, well, if it wasn't for Facebook serving up the stuff to the people that we know, they don't need to see. Like people, people levy that claim constantly, but we don't really know.

I don't know. I think you've hit on something that's super important in understanding these algorithms, which is that I think, and this is more philosophical, I guess, but this type of philosophy is important when you, in science, which is that I don't think you actually can have an unbiased algorithm. Or maybe I should put it a different way. Maybe if an algorithm is designed to serve humanity, you shouldn't have an unbiased algorithm. Now, what do I mean by that?

That sounds bad, right? We don't want it to be biased. But we do want it to be biased. We want it to be biased to serve our human needs, you know? That's already a bias. That's a bias in itself, because if you actually gave an AI, like, hey, AI, just do your own thing and tell us what you think we should do. They'd probably say, get off the planet. You're freaking destroying it.

You're all terrible. So what's important is that we understand our relationship to this and each other, and we interrogate. what it is that we need from it and we're constantly uh constantly analyzing and figuring out and looking under the hood and saying is this thing doing what what we need it to do and is it serving the most people in um in an equitable way you hear a lot about the difference between equity and equitable um an equitable being being that that most people that everyone's getting the things that they need, that humanity needs out of it

in an equal way, you know? Yeah. Because if the robots, you know, if it's whole jobs to say, well, we need to do what's best for the survival of the planet, let's say. They can't just indiscriminately start wasting humans. Like, because that's what

it would, I mean, if you're just going to look at the math of it, you go, well, who's the dominant species that is ruining the watershed or whatever? We are. So, to start killing humans. That doesn't feel very equitable to us and also very biased in the direction of anti-human.

Like, these things are way, the reason I like these discussions is way more complicated. And not just that, but it's also, I think, really beneficial to have discussions like this. Like it's both stimulating, but also, I don't know, makes you more of an active participant in the discussion

and less just reactive to link bait and headlines that are meant to throw you over the edge or or you know stuff that's just there to scare you scare bait i'd like to call it uh so yeah like uh if i had any if i had any sort of like um not advice if i had any kind of thought on this it would be uh you know if we're if we're afraid of technology then what we're really saying is we're afraid of each other and we got to we got to figure that shit out if you know what i'm saying definitely yeah well this is good stuff uh you can find more about this at ScienceDaily.com,

which is where we kind of sparked the conversation from, so if you want to read about what they had to say, you can, but you can also check out Bobby's fantastic podcast, all about science, all around science, rather. Hey, Bobby, tell us all about it and where they can get it and how they can get around to it.

Our website is all aroundscience.com, and you can also find that where you find your podcast. It's just the title of the podcast is All Around Science. Now, Scott, I had asked you about this earlier, and you thought it was a good idea that sometimes science news is slow, and I like just talking about science. So I always want to have something to talk about when I come on the show, and we thought, wouldn't it be fun to some people might have questions about science or scientific topics or something that they saw in science and that's not clear to them? or just, it could be as general as, what are hormones? You just don't know, and you want some help with that.

We thought maybe we should let people ask questions. Yeah, for sure, yeah. We put it out there. If you're in our Discord, you can ask them there. If you want to send us emails, the morning stream at gmail.com, you can do that. You can also ping Bobby on the various places you can find him. However you want to get those questions to us, we'd love to answer them on the show. So, yeah, yeah, sure.

Keep them coming. We like them along. There's a lot of complicated stuff out there, and I love digging in, even if it's something that I don't know, I love digging in and learning more about something myself and then sharing that with people. So if that's something that you guys are interested in and there's something that pops up and you're just curious about, let us know. And we'll answer those questions. But yeah, the podcast is all around science this week on the one that's on there right now. We talked about in the news recently, there was this big headlines about like, oh, new physics is happening. because physicists have found something they can't explain in the quantum level, and now we have to throw out the standard model of physics and create new particles in physics.

The world is changing, and we dig into that and talk about what that means and what it actually was. And I think I managed to actually explain something about particle physics and understand it. Well, I think I finally understand Tenet after this conversation, so thank you for that. Finally, I give it the hell they were trying to do in that movie. finally uh bobby frankenberger have a fantastic week we will see you next time right here thank you guys i'll see you bobby that's great yeah i love that stuff okay it's such a great philosophical isn't it question it's great and it's the one of our time movies never can fully get into because it would take a lot more than just a two hour yeah exactly oh speaking of which uh

do you remember the movie primer you liked that movie right i did like that movie yeah somebody told me that they felt like tenant was a big budget primer. Do you agree with that? I mean, and they meant it positively, by the way. They weren't being in, they weren't throwing a shade. I guess. I mean, there's some parallels in the way that technology isn't just in the way that the technology is represented. I guess.

I have to think about that. And maybe you have to see Primer again because it's really, it's been like 10 years, yeah, since I've seen it. Yeah, and it's Primer taught us, your memories start to degrade after you do it too many times. That's exactly right. Yes, like Xerox. That's right. Look it up, kids. Yeah, go look it up.

It's a fantastic movie. You should see it. All right, we're doing a, we're doing a thing here. It's called The News, and it's brought to you by. Brutty by Coverville. We're back this week. gone last week because of stuff, but we're back this week. And we've got

birthday cover stories for Leslie Gore. She was the one complaining about her party and she can cry if she wants to and all that stuff. As well as Robert Johnson who legend says that he sold his soul to the devil

for his guitar talent and his success and fame. Is it true? We won't explore that. We'll just listen to covers of his music. But it's up to you to decide. if it's true or not, covers of both by folks like Rush, Quincy Jones, they might be giants, the ukulele orchestra of Great Britain, and even the late great Robert Palmer, all of this and more. Coming up 1 p.m. Mountain Time, Twitch.tv.tv slash Coverville.

Not to be confused with Robert Plant, who has a giant head right now. Oh, my gosh. I watched that interview on YouTube. He has the biggest head. Does he really? Yeah, I saw the photo you posted in our just... And it's not just that photo. I watched the whole thing, and I kept thinking, is this an angle thing? Am I seeing like a trick of photography or something? No, Robert Plant has a normal man's... He'd! He looks great for his age, too.

Just like, you know, looks like he's in shape and just looks like he's in, you know, doing it fine. But his head is seriously the size of a small Volkswagen. It's amazingly huge, just a giant noggin on his head. He must have the hat problems I do. He can't find a hat to fit him to save his life. Anyway. Yep, yep.

So Coverville, check it out today. Coverville, 1 p.m. 1 p.m. No, no rubber plant whatsoever. No rubber plant. Exactly. All right. Hey, check it out.

A man, a man, jumped off of a building in San Diego and ended up killing bystandard below. That's not good. Oh, geez. You never think about that when you hear stories of people jumping off buildings to commit suicide. They think it's just about them, but it's not. You got a busy street down there, you know? In movies have taught us anything, Scott, you always land on a parked, empty car on the street. Yep.

this guy described as by the coroner to be in his late 20s or 30s, plunged from the ninth floor of a building and fell into somebody named Taylor Cale, age 29, in San Diego. She was walking with a friend. Imagine being that friend. God, I know.

It'd be like that opening episode of the boys. Oh, geez. With what's the, who's the speedy guy? Yeah. Run bummer. Whatever is it. It's, yes. Speedman. What is it? Lightning McQueen.

I don't know. I can't remember his name. A train. That's a train. A train. You mean it's not... A train. A train. You mean it's not run bummer? I can't imagine that it wasn't run bummer. Anyway, that's a sad story. I'm moving on. Yeah, this story was a sad story. Yeah, I don't know. For some reason, I thought people survived it and then it was going to be like a feel-good, you know, cautionary tale, but also, you know.

funny story. Everybody's okay. Oh, everybody's not okay. Yeah, we're not doing that one. Let's do this one instead. A Texas woman faces a felony embezzlement charge after two decades of over, for over VHS, or over a VHS rental from a closed Oklahoma video store. All right. Let me scan this story really quick. Make sure everyone's okay. Yeah, everyone lived. Everyone lived. Yeah, she's okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, we're good. Thank you for doing that. A former Oklahoma resident is now living in Texas recently learned that she had an act of warrant for a felony embezzlement charge for the past two decades, 20 years after allegedly never returning a rented VHS tape in 1999, the year of the Matrix. Again, with the years, I don't know what's going on there. Right. Karen McBride told Fox 25 that she was made aware of the charge. She's tried to change her name on her driver's license after getting married in Texas.

McBride said she tried to make an appointment with the Department of Motor Vehicles under restrictions put in place during the coronavirus pandemic, but received an email back that said she had, she had, sorry, she had an issue in Oklahoma is what she was told. Some sort of mysterious issue in Oklahoma. Yeah. Okay. All right. She'd finally got a number, called somebody, got with the Cleveland County District Attorney's

Office. Person on the phone told her that they, she had been charged with felony embezzlement of rented property in March of 2000. It was, uh, it was a VHS. tape that went to a place called movie place. It was a small thing. Check out what it was. It was for that horrible old Sabrina the teenage witch.

The old one with Caroline Ray and... Was it the TV? Was there a movie or was it just the TV show? I don't think there was a... I don't think there was a movie for Sabrina the Teenage Witch. I think it was both times it was series. We really touched a nerve for Claire on this. She likes that.

She is getting so much use out of her caps lock key today. You're going to need new character or keyboard. Oh, my gosh. There are lots of all caps. Dice tomatoes is in all caps. Stephanie is in all caps? All right. Is it hold up then?

It's good. I don't know. I remember being kind of bad. I've never, you know what? I've never seen a single episode of it. I can't, I can't judge one way or the other. I wish I was you because I did see one and I thought it was really bad. I remember seeing the cat talking

Like a little robot puppet black cat turning its head There was definitely a cat He definitely talked I don't remember being a robot though I thought it was just a cat But maybe it was a robot Well it was a puppet or something Oh was it?

Because it would talk and it would move its mouth to talk Real cats can't do that And then there was like a laugh track and everything It was just one of those comedies I couldn't There's nothing to laugh at there right If you're a kid I get it there was a movie says tear in 77 this is probably that okay I don't know if they made it based on the show or whatever but I don't know if you could rent VHS copies of TV shows back in 1999 maybe you could I don't know yeah I had a bunch of X-files tapes from back then it says here the first thing she told me was felony embezzlement so I thought I was going to have a heart attack she says she told me it was over this VHS tape that I had forgotten to take back she thought this is insane this girl must be kidding me right

She wasn't kidding. Record show the video rental store closed in 2008, so they're gone. Yeah. By 11, 12 years. The Cleveland County, or 13 years, whatever that is. The Cleveland County Assessor's Office said the Cleveland County District Attorney's agreed to drop the case against McBride on Wednesday. The charges filed on her previous district attorney, so she's okay. It's all good.

But by law, they could have prosecuted that, and she could have spent time in jail on felony charges because she didn't return a damn copy of Sabrina the Teenage Witch. And it makes me think that that played into this. Do you think there were like attorneys sitting around at the state capital, the state attorney's office going, you know, I think we could let this go because it's this Sabrina thing no one likes. You think just purely based on it being Sabrina the teenage witch, they're more likely to say, oh, you know, if this was, if this was Empire of the Sun,

we'd have an issue here. If this was the English patient, my God, we would put her in jail. Yeah, because it's I just wonder if it played any role. It may not have it. There's no mention of how much, like, did late fees just keep racking up? Because I'm not seeing any dollar signs in this article. I was really hoping that I'd see.

Well, let's do the math. Back in the day when you and I would do a Blockbuster rental, what were the late fees for those? Do you remember? Was it like a per day thing? I don't remember. I think it was per day. Yeah, I think it was.

So, like, if the rental was things, Three bucks. You would pay three bucks. I think it would only go up to the value of the tape. Oh, I see. You wouldn't get, you wouldn't end up owing hundreds of dollars. I think it would stop at whatever the outrageously inflated, made up cost of the tape was that nobody ever paid. Like, you know, $59.99 or something.

I wonder if there's any way to see. What were Blockbuster late fees? Oh, this is actually a common search here. Uh-huh. Um. let's see blockbuster suit over late fee i don't care about any of this i want to know what they were and nothing says but if it was let's say it was three bucks a day that's that brings back a memory for me for some reason if you rented it for three and then you didn't get it back the next day for a day

rental they charge you three bucks every day that it wasn't returned right is my memory so if you take two years let's do this math this is it's gonna be fun uh okay so two years is but so 365 days. And as people point out here, and you see this a lot, I mentioned a lot in the last blockbuster documentary. They dropped late fees and it was a big thing. Like they had a big old commercial with, oh, somebody turned out to become really famous later on whose name is completely escaping me. But, um. Oh, weird. I kind of remember that though. I have a vague memory of it. Oh, here it is. Okay. 730 days. That's, that's, that's, No, that's two years.

Sorry. What we need is 365 times 10, no, 20. Okay. So that's 7,000, 300 days, Brian. 7,300 days times $2.99 a day. That's if they don't stop at the value of the tape. Correct. And I don't know if they do or don't.

Because this is movie plays. It knows what their rules are. So that turned out to be, that's $21,827. Oh, my God. Yeah. That's a lot. It's a lot. But, you know, once the place goes out of business, that stops, right?

That late fee would stop racking up. And I guess when you go bankrupt or you close your business, your, your owed debts get reported to the. the county or the state or something. Must be. Yeah. But also like how that all works. You know, if a, if a guy at a McDonald's, you know,

if McDonald's, let's say, if a employee McDonald's stole 20 hamburgers one day, but then McDonald's folded. I love when we go into analogies like this. Yes, please continue. Please. So he's got the burgers and McDonald's closes down permanently.

The record still shows he stole those burgers. So the crime. still committed. That would be more of a criminal record as opposed to your independent contract with this, with this, uh, individual company. Right. Right. I mean, the stealing stuff would be a theft that gets reported and then the police get involved. You owing a dollar 99 to the movie place for not returning Sabrina is just part of the agreement that you have with the rental company. They can take it to a collections agency if they're still in business. Right. Um, Or as Dan Wally puts it, creditors can go after you, after something else, declares bankruptcy.

After bankruptcy? So, right. So the company goes bankrupt. Their list of assets and deficiencies. There's another word for it. I can't remember what it is. It goes to... Forfeitures.

Forfeitures. That's the word? That's the word? I think that's the word. Yeah. Deats? Is it just debts? Just debts?

Is it? Assets and debts? Sure. Okay. Anyway. Well, anyway, I hope her viewing of that film was worth it. Okay. Worth all this.

Or that series or whatever. Is it possible that Sabrina the Teenage Witch, in that current form? Like, I like the new Netflix one. It's cool. It's like dark. I think Shipka was great in Mad Men. Yes. Yes.

You'd like it. It's good. It's dark and weird and cool. It's like they go. I'm still knee deep in a person of interest. and holy cow Amy Acker she is just fantastic I like nothing at all bad that I can say about Amy Acker Let me think for a minute is there anything I can say bad about Amy Acker no you can't say anything bad about Amy Acker and I defy you to try she's pretty great I remember her from like alias like way yeah right

Alias uh the gifted she was on that X-Men TV show for a while I guess she was on angel I never saw angel but um she was on that mcgaver reboot that didn't last oh was she really okay that really happened that happened right there was a mcgiver reboot am i remembering that wrong anyway yeah there was a margiver reboot we talked about this uh there was a lawsuit over it and it brought up our whole discussion about remake sequels and reboots and the difference differences between all that there you go oh she was also the voice of uh the huntress on uh justice league the unlimited which was very good that's all right well for whatever reason i thought she was married to somebody like weeden or um sutterberg or something like that now she's married to james carpanello

oh well she was in the cabin in the woods the the weeden and angel and she and yeah an angel and i bet she made an appearance on um doll house and stuff like that i mean it feels like she was in everything that uh well i'm kind of glad she wasn't married to him because it sounds like he's kind of a pain in the ass right now It kind of does, does it? Yeah. Everything I've heard of him lately is not great. So, yeah. All right.

We're going to take a break. When we come back, my sister Wendy will be here. She'll join us. And that'll be great. Before that, though, we need a song. And I imagine Brian's probably got one locked and loaded. So fire away. I've got one.

And, you know, as much as people will think that, oh, brain only pinked it because it's by somebody named Tristan. I didn't. Okay. I didn't. It's by somebody named Tristan. But it's not spelled T-R-I-S-T-A-N, like my son's name is. It's spelled with an E, T-R-I-S-T-E-N.

And she's a she. And she's a brand-new album coming out called Aquatic Flowers comes out at the beginning of June, June 4th, to be specific. She is a Nashville indie pop singer. And this song called, Wrong With You, If You Are At All a Fan of Liz Fair, I think you're going to hear some. Liz Fair in this. This is so good and it's so both sweet and dark at the same time. From her

upcoming album, Aquatic Flowers, here is Wrong With You from Tristan. That sounds awesome. I like Liz Fair. All right, I'm going to play it now and we'll see you guys on the other side. Come on back. haven't you seen enough of me dragging you round in the dirt haven't you heard a word i've been saying if you play then you only get hurt take it from me i can only be the weight that is holding you down now you first the floor that you only want more you can't save me but you'll never let go the voice in my head speaks louder than anything you could say so deep by the grooves i'm sinking into no love could ever wash away there must be something wrong with you for love and

me there must be something wrong with you for loving someone like me the generous poor I will only ignore I am weary of a good thing you can call me a name and I suffer no pain I feel the same if I'm telling the truth I can't accept what I know you regret if I finally let myself show

so I come off a shy but I'm trapped in my mind you can't live with me I live alone the voice in my head speaks louder than anything you could say so deep are the grooves

I'm singing in No love could ever wash away There must be something wrong with you for loving someone like me There must be something wrong with you for loving someone like me I'm feeling sorry for you I don't know why you stay When your affection only stands in the way Your caring can't convince me

I'm gonna fuck this up Your good intentions only make me stray The voice in my head speaks louder Than anything you could say So deep are the grooves I'm sinking To know love could ever wash away There must be something wrong with you for loving someone like me. There must be something wrong with you for loving someone like me.

There must be something wrong with you for loving someone like me. There must be something wrong with you for loving someone like me. love and someone like me. Hey, you guys. Let's take a minute and talk about our friends at Blue Chew, today's episode sponsored by Blue Chew. Look, it's been a hell of a year. Personally, I feel like I've aged 12 years over.

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really good very nice that sounds awesome all right and everybody everybody in the chairroom is saying they totally heard some Liz Phara on that so good I'm glad I'm glad I was right about that and there's no way they can prove me right that we can play it live here and everything. That's the best part of it. Hey, look who it is. It's my sister, a professional, who comes on the show on Thursdays and hangs out with us. Hi, Wendy. How are you doing? Hey, I'm good. How are you guys? We're fantastic.

We're good. Looking very much forward to July and it'll be great. Because by then, you know, you'll be, oh, you're done. You got your second Vax. You're all good. No, my second one is this week. Oh, it's this week. Next week. Next week, okay. Yeah, so next week's after that.

Yeah, yeah. But then by June. But next week, that means on Therapy Thursday. I'm going to make no sense again. Oh, beautiful. Or it be too sick to be here. Who knows? You got the Moderna or the Pfizer?

So those there at Therapy Thursday where you made no sense and you want to go? Yeah, it's after my first shot. Yeah, she thinks last week she made no sense, but I disagree. I think it was one of our better show. It was the week before. Oh, was it? No, yeah, we'll be done. And the kids are now able to get theirs.

So Allie's already started hers. And I don't know why I'm the only one in the family who has any response. I swear I'm the only one with an immune system. That's good, though. That means that when you have the response, you're supposed to, that means you're more, I don't know. Exactly. You're robots. Something's wrong with them.

I didn't hardly fill a thing. That makes me nervous. I know. I'm like, did they even give it to me? You don't have an immune system. Apparently not. But I get like high. That's not a good response.

I don't know what's wrong with my brain. No, don't get high. That's weird. That's very weird. Are you sure that? Can we get the vex? They gave her heroin. They just didn't tell her.

All right. So what was I going to say? I was going to say something about the trip. Oh, that'll be fun because all of us conscientious, you know, we live in a society types, like me and you, we'll be hanging out with a couple of members of our family who are kind of anti-vaxxers. And, you know, we'll do what I'm going to do. I'm going to bring some, like a little job. jar full of COVID and I'm just going to release it at a family dinner like Bill Gates did with those flies that one year or those mosquitoes do you guys remember this he got up in front of a

it was it a TED talk it may have been and he was talking to remember this is a TED talk yeah yeah and he was doing a like anti-malaria thing when he was really big on that and um literally opened up a jar of these mosquitoes and just like threw him out to the audience and said all right these are the ones that carry the malaria thing but none of you're going to get it. at it because of this or that or the other but people were all freaked out because he was letting bugs loose in the auditorium anyway yeah please just make it a yeah they got 27 years man that's a lot hey let me ask you this windy here's a good this is a great starter if you were the the therapist who had to sit down with bill and melinda gates and uh help them through their

little 27 year hiccup here what would you what would be the first thing you try with those two I tell them to give all their money away It's the root of all evil Just give it to I don't know Maybe you're a therapist Yeah Give it to me No I don't know

I don't know what's going on with them I guess you know That's the thing right Yeah they're just so prominently Public it's hard for us not to Notice this and stuff But we don't know Nobody knows

For all we know he burps at night Or you know what they do We do know he hangs out With his ex girlfriend monthly Or whatever that is Oh he does does does Oh, does he really? Yeah, there's some, I don't know, that came out that they had some arrangement where he could, like, go to dinner with his ex-girlfriend all the time or something weird.

People are weird. That's the answer. People are weird. And the more money you have, you can hide all your weird. That's kind of the... That's true. Your weird always comes out. Yeah. It'll show up eventually. You know, it's funny, though, I have to say watching Basos divorce is much more interesting because he does not give anybody a penny. and the second she's free of him, she did philanthropic magic. She didn't make anyone write an essay to try to get money. She just secretly found out who needs it and just freaking gave it away.

She gave away huge amounts of her vast fortune from her prenuptial. Yeah, $4 billion. She gave out in like a weekend. Yeah. She was like that movie. What was that movie in the 80s with Brewster's millions? Brewster's millions. She did it all the weekend.

Did she buy an upside end stamp and stick it on a postcard? Yep, hung out with John Candy for a bit. You guys are old. We are old. We really are. I love that movie. Or I did. I don't know if it holds up.

Anyway, so let's get to it. We got an email here. This is one that came, I guess, to you, and now we're going to read it. Let's see, let me pull it up here. All right, here's an email from somebody. We're going to call this person M because we, you know, like to keep people anonymous, even if they don't care. Hi, Wendy.

It was just an issue I wanted to be, or there might be worth examining on Therapy Thursdays. I am not connected to this at all, but I'm curious to hear discussion on the action that affects, sorry, the action and the effects may have. I'm in Australia and we had quite a bit of news recently about the reaction taken by the school to the issue of how men treat females. There's a link to an article attached if you want to read it. I didn't actually look at that, but it was called Brower College Students forced to a apologize. And there's a whole bunch of info about what he's talking about. But anyway, without warning at a school assembly, all boys were asked to stand and apologize to a female around them for how men treat women. Given that boys at the school would range from 12 to 16

years old and have different nationalities represented, you can imagine how confusing this can be for some of them, especially the younger ones. So I'm wondering about your thoughts on how to go about educating the young mind or a young mind on such issues. And whether the approach taken by this college is fraught with danger for the kids. It seems dangerous to invoke a feeling of being personally responsible without a specific boy having done anything wrong. However, it also raises awareness of the issue in advance of someone trying to do something wrong.

Just curious of your thoughts, with all social matters needing rectification, the challenge is often how to go about it without creating more damage, love the show, M. So, I'm trying to imagine this, but I think I can just envision, you know, envision this this everybody stand up all the boys stand up now collectively apologize you know basically a giant reparations moment to to all the girls and part of me goes well that's a nice gesture and then part of me says oh I don't know if this is the way to do it mm-hmm yeah so when he's referring to college am I getting this right because I'm thinking of England and you say college when kids are 15 and 16 right there he's saying 12 to 16 year old so yes college is a us

Australia's weird that way. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. So young, and that's what I thought. But then, you know, my American brain said college, you know, one or two-year-olds. Got it. Yeah, all right.

So you're probably picturing that correctly. And the two parts of you make a lot of sense. Brian, how about you? What is part of you think and what is the other part of you think? Well, I mean, you know, the first thing I think of is, okay, you know, do they also have an assembly where it says, all right, everybody who's white, stand up and apologize. to the nearest black person sitting by you or the nearest Asian person sitting by you. It's not a way to solve a problem.

And it's probably like it's too blankety. It's too blankety. It's like it is. Right. Exactly. It's too. Nobody wants a forced apology. But even then it's not,

people don't want an apology from somebody that hasn't wronged them, which causes confusion in both the recipient and. and the apologizer, which I know is not a word, but I'm going to use it. I'm not sorry about you all. Apologizer. Apologizer. It is today. You're talking to two Johnsons.

Everything's a word. Everything's a word. That is so true. But yeah, the confusion issue is the big one, right? Is that it's just going to make the people, everybody in there confused about why they're doing it. So I have a long running list of if you could just run this by one. more person outside of your group, it really help, you know, like certain design decisions or, you know, when someone runs a campaign, it's the group thing that you get when everyone in the

room is excited about the same thing and then you miss the sort of other information you might normally have if you had someone from the outside look at it. And that's to me what happened here is like the intent, the underlying desire sounds like a good one. Like, hey, there is a problem and we need to get let these kids know you know they're at the the age where some of this behavior really is is starting it's not solidified yet and there this is a window to help them but then just run by the the gimmickiness of this to someone who I don't know has some some some expertise and they go oh wrong approach maybe there's a different version of this and so it just sounds like it was an exciting energetic version of that. They didn't have anything planned for that assembly or the person that they did. The juggler that was going to show up canceled and it's like they saw too many movies like that you can't all stand, you know, the idea of everybody standing up and going and saying I am Spartacus over and over until nobody can tell who Spartacus is is a really sweeping, effective, really dramatic thing to do. And so you think the idea.

of these boys standing up proudly and going, I apologize to all girls and women for the, and the next kid, I apologize for the, like, I know what they're aiming for. I know what they're aiming for there. And I get it, but it's so. No one's going to learn anything. It's so two dimensional. Right. It's, you're not going to learn anything from it. And it's so thin. And it. It reminds me of a fail video that starts out like you're going to see it go well. And then it does. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I want to share a time this happened to me. It's a little difference. And these were a much older professional setting that it, so they clearly didn't run it by anybody. So when I started graduate school, you know, so everyone's in their mid-20s and plenty older. So, you know, any age range, but a lot of us were probably in our mid-20s. And so we're in grad school. And the first day, there was this attempt. They had hired some consultant who came in and was trying to create sort of awareness. And, you know, this is social work. So you got to realize all these different people are coming from different places and everyone has different experiences.

And on day one, we want to make that clear that, you know, here's a place where everyone is, is different. Well, I don't know who thought this through. What they did was they put us in a giant circle. And so there's a hundred and something people back when you could be crammed together. And we were all crammed in this weird circle in this room. And these facilitators asked people to step forward if they had been discriminated based on their name or whatever. So someone steps forward or if you had received welfare as a child or like they pulled out every deep. I mean, this is supposed to be a therapeutic place, by the way.

And they pulled out every sort of deep sort of difference or question or, you know, that made you feel left out. Like, have you ever been picked last on a team? I mean, they covered the gamut, right? And so people are stepping forward and they're always, you know, let's let's people not stepping forward because they didn't have any of these things happen to them. Right. Yeah. And here's the thing. if that's your plan then what are you going to do with it it's like everyone comes up with the idea

to the moment of like the drama of it but where's the resolution and i will tell you how they left it it was terrible it was like well we're all different and that was that was like the end and all these people are just like let everybody know they were on welfare right like what the what did you just do it was so bad and i will tell you And you can, I'm not going to tell you what the rest, but you can Google it in my brain and you will hear that it was one of the most sort of pranky, disconnected classes that school had ever had. Like lots of fighting in classes about like, and really what it set everyone up to feel is either a little bit victimized or like let's all gang up on, you know, that white straight guy in the corner. who is just like a nerd and is just trying to get his degree. You know, we were like, just torn apart.

And that's what this guy's referring to is when you plan to do one of these things. And you are not actually qualified to do, to facilitate something like this. You're going to create more problems. And you actually create problems that might not have been there, right? And so you're going to have that reflex reaction of like, well, through that and then the secret crap comes out and it's less and less hidden because it's socially inappropriate and you know find other dudes who think girls are stupid and start to create you know you've actually maybe created more problems and I don't know if that's happening there but I'm

going to tell you what's happening in Minnesota is that there are groups of children in middle schools and some high schools but mainly middle schools which is like a cesspool generally right who are spreading and just doing some of the most heinous, racist things you can imagine. And these are kids. And all I can assume is that five years ago, none of these kids were racist and nor were their parents probably, like outwardly racist. But this feeling like the spotlight is on us and that, you know, you're not allowed to say any words and, you know, there's no room to grow or to get a chance to learn.

it's just like you're woke or you're not right yeah this is this is going to piss off some some lefties who listen to the show but i i could not agree with this more this concept of just by merely discussing something uh is a problem and you get shunned for it i hate that i freaking and here's here the solution there is a solution and and if you if you get a lefty calm enough they'll say yeah i actually would like a solution well it's really hard to hear it when you're not quite sure you think it's going to go back to do nothing about it, right? And that's understandable that you can't go back to doing nothing about it. But when you do do something about it, there is a better version than the let's make everyone feel a certain way that's very dramatic

and think it's going to work for everybody. It does work for some. I'm sure there'll be some boys in that class that that was a meaningful experience for them. And they realize like, oh, I I am kind of a bully or I do act sexist or you know something I don't know but there are going to be plenty that will just get really defensive and now they will feel victimized and when they feel victimized what do they then do with that right so you can see the backlash and here's the thing no one's like extra good at this but there are professionals and experts and people who have thought really long and hard about this and have studied this and understand how people work and I just wish we could sometimes talk with them first before we pull off stuff.

Get their, yeah, get their feedback. We're going to buy them just to make sure. And I mean, I was young and I was just like, yeah, wow, look how different we all are. And I step forward on a couple of those things. And it's pretty vulnerable. And you were like, all right, now what are you going to do? And they were like, all right, peace out. Time for lunch.

And you're like, wait, what? And so with no context or no. So it can happen in the best of places with the best of intentions, right? Right. But the risk that you run is that you're assuming too much about people. And you've got to go a lot slower and a lot, you know. And in these cases of these things that have happened here that I know of, there and one happened just the other day in my kids middle school and my friend's kids middle school.

So we've talked a lot about it and how people are handling it and what's happening. and it's really directed to kids in their school, not directed to the world out there, directed to those Asian kids in their class or directed to those black kids in their class. And, you know, it is, it's sickening and alarming and you think, what? But if the answer is just keep shoving stuff down their throat,

it's not because that just seems to make it worse. So what is the answer? So to get really thoughtful and open and work to understand what helps, I think matters. I mean, I can't speak to what they're doing in Australia. Hopefully they've, they've seen the backlash maybe to it and recognize there's maybe more to be done, which, so I want to ask you guys, you're the experts now because you've all, you both have your sociology PhDs. Tell me.

From that book you recommended a couple weeks ago. Yeah, that one time we get read that book. What is the solution? So we have a problem with gender discrimination everywhere. I'm, I work with some people in some couple third world countries, and wow, wow, yeah, we think it's, you know, just slightly irritating. It's still, you know, thriving. And so the problem is out there. What do you do about it? If you want to help these 13, 14, 15 year old kids treat each other better, what's your

idea? You take that same assembly, and instead of making everybody, or all the, the, the boys stand up, you educate everybody on gender discrimination and what, you know, what the obvious examples are and maybe some of the not so obvious examples are. You can't really talk about the workplace, 78% you know, pay for women that men have and stuff like that, but you can talk about examples that happen in a school setting, things that they might be aware of that they don't realize is is discriminatory. Yeah, I would agree with that.

It's going to take a nuanced, like, smart approach by people who know. Like somebody I follow on Twitter always talks about the death of expertise and how we're living in this time where expertise is being ignored in favor of, you know, emotional outbursts and, you know, bad ideas or, you know, assumptions. or purely faith-based arguments and things like that. And in a situation like this, you would want to inject some expertise. So somebody who knows about this stuff. I don't know what they're called or what job that is,

but somebody that could actually come in there and tell people what goes on around them, but also knows how to talk to kids, doesn't talk down to them, doesn't assume they're stupid, and isn't trying to just create a pageant out of it, which is a lot of what this sounds like to me when you get up and say, now everyone stand up. Raise your hand if you, like, come on.

Like, kids are smarter than that. And also they're smart enough to know when they're being condescended to. And so they're going to react the way kids react. Just like a lot of adults react that way today. Like, if you're going to, if you're going to treat somebody like they're stupid, they're going to recoil and pull further away

toward whatever thing you were trying to teach them not to do. So there's that conundrum with expertise, right? Right. which is if, I mean, it feels pretty powerful to knock an expert, right? Well, I read a thing. And so that guy can't be right. The guy who spent his 30-year career studying a thing and has maybe the humility to understand that the more you learn, the more you realize there's so much more to know, right?

Whereas when I read a quick article, I got the gist. I know. and so it feels pretty powerful and yet it gets us in a lot of trouble and then conversely if I think I know and then someone I feel like someone's condescending to me I mean now I'm doubling down right so we have it's a problem in both directions and it's one challenge like I was listening to this podcast about left and right brains and just how much we don't know like this is this was fascinating about my field is we're like, wow, well, this FMRI study showed that in the right frontal cortex, this thing happens. We don't know how the heck that happens. We don't know why and why

does it only happen in some people. Like, it's still a mystery in so many ways. We know some things, but, you know, we're talking billions of neurons. We don't know, right? So that level of like curiosity, when the curiosity goes, we're in trouble. So anyway, they were talking about how more and more scientists now will get their education and not, and it's all technical, it's all left brain dominant only. And it sort of skips previously, you'd have to read some poetry and take a philosophy course. There was just more to developing scientists or, you know, overall historically, then there tends to be now. And so when we get really into the proof and black and white and, you know, and it can go in any direction, right?

So even from we're missing maybe some nuance. And I think what we're finding is we're all experts, but none of us are experts. And that's what's tricky. So when an actual person who knows what they're talking about are for the most part, we can just knock them down and criticize them and not do what they say. Or maybe people aren't willing to become experts because it's not fun anymore. I don't know. But there is a lot of people who have studied humans for a long time who could maybe assist in some of this.

And I get that that's maybe hard to access. And it just feels good to do this thing. I don't know. But, you know, sometimes you try a thing and it bombs. And so then you've got to figure out a different way to handle what's happening, you know? I don't know. It's frustrating. And I can imagine, you know, being a parent in that school and really being, like, I get it.

I really get it. And being frustrated with the approach because I can see. how teenagers aren't going to take it. Right. You also have to kind of, you have to think of the, I mean, I'm thinking to these teachers and these administrators and, you know, whoever was up on that stage orchestrating this. It's easy to just go, dummies, you know, you're, how can you, how could you be so obtuse? How did you be that?

Whatever. But they, I don't think any of them meant any harm. They didn't, they thought this was the right way to do it. Sure. Like there is, there is another, there's this other part of society where. Even if most people agree that it was the wrong way to do it, we have now put them in perma jail for doing it the way they did it. We haven't even given them a chance to say, oh, yeah, I did, I guess now that I see the difference. We haven't even given them a chance to see that it was better.

You know, good examples happening in the chat room. There was some discussion years ago where I talked about transgender folks participating in sports and all the controversy around that. And at some point, I was like, well, yeah, I guess of, you know, the Rock or Brock Lesnar, some, you know, enormous dude in whatever area of sports they were in, if they suddenly said, hey, I'm transgender and we'd all go, okay, cool, that's awesome. I now can call you her and you're off with your life. But if they suddenly got back into the sport they're in, don't they have an advantage? And since then, there's been tons of discussion, both in the chat and outside of the chat, from people who are trans, people who are. trans, helping me understand better the nuance of all of that. It's not as simple as my rock example, which my examples really are as simple as I think they are. And I came around on that

stuff. So part of this has to be, I think, it just has to be. I don't know how you're going to get around this. Not everybody's going to come into the situation with all of the information, with enough personal experience that they know and feel and can understand or relate to how this must feel for those A who are being marginalized or anybody in the scenario, you're not going to have the life experience. So how do they gain understanding? It's through discussion. And shutting them that discussion is not going to help, even when they're saying it wrong.

So part of me is like, yeah, it's a big deal when you get a bunch of kids feeling rotten about an idea that you thought was good on stage. right but we can't just i mean they didn't mean they didn't mean to do something behind that were great let's build on that as opposed to oh you guys are idiots you did everything wrong yeah give them a chance to learn give them a chance to and i know that the kids and them learning maybe is more important i won't i won't deny that they've had their chance they're an adult they should maybe know more at the stage they're at but this just throw people in the trash because their life process didn't match up with yours is a bummer

like we got to stop doing that too that's bad and it's bad it's bad across the board because that just perpetuates itself so when these kids do something super stupid or they have an opportunity to go one way or the other and they air on the side that they shouldn't have or whatever society doesn't just go you're out of here getting the trash heap with the rest of them like that's that sucks we got to not do that that's bad I mean obviously it's amplified with technology but I also think it exists in the form it does because of it. Like there was no way for us to even know this was happening in Australia without some way to connect us to that, right?

And I think so it's in our human nature to banish people. It is because they're a threat or they've done this thing that makes the group unsafe or whatever it may be that is absolutely built into our DNA. And yet, it's not the societies we live in anymore, but we still have that urge, right? Like, you're out. You don't agree, blah, blah, blah. Or you're just a threat to the whatever, right? So you can imagine, like, with some of these kids who have been messing around with being bullies online

in really racist, directed, terrible ways around here. you know, I don't know what their parents think. I don't know if this is just, hey, I'm mimicking what my dad taught me. That's possible. But my guess is most of these parents are like, what? What has just happened? Because whether they, you know, are annoyed with some of the wokeness or something, I don't think they think threatening other students because of their race is what their kids should be doing, right?

And so there is some openness on the part of adults to try to help. kids learn. I think we can, we're a little better at letting kids have space to learn, some kids. And then sometimes that's not the case, right? And I think we don't give a lot of leeway to adults. But if you think about in your own lives, I mean, raise your hand. If you've banished anybody in your life in the last year and a half, maybe four years, like it's tempting, right? Because it's so uncomfortable. It feels disconnecting and unsafe, a person you thought, you knew suddenly is saying things you cannot believe they're saying. And if you think about where we're at in those moments, psychologically emotionally, we're in our very fight or fly

defense modes, right? And that is, it narrows our vision. And we literally can't see other things. And we lose curiosity. We lose openness. We lose compassion. So our brains, I'm obviously on my right left brain kick at the moment. But our brains need both sides. What's so fascinating, let me just throw out this thing. If there is an injury to the right side of the brain and your left side off is the part that's undam or not damaged, right? Those folks will experience just so much more anger and irritation.

And those who have damage to the left side and the right side still intact don't. They don't have the same kind of. of problems. It's really fascinating when you look at the brain damage areas of the brain. So that tells us kind of what that area does, right? And that's because anger flares only on the left side. And that's the side that wants order. That's the side that's black and white.

That's the side that's logical, right? And I do think that's a fascinating find that, you know, are we all operating in our angry left hemisphere sometimes? And if we are more so doing that, why? why and what does a better brain balance actually look like? And so I don't know the answer. But I do know that this stuff is loaded for all of us in different ways. I mean, take my example in grad school.

You could not have found a better audience who would have suck that up and just been like, yeah. Look at all these challenges and like, but seal it with something, right? Like they just, it was terrible. It was a terrible version of this attempt, let alone a, school where everyone's going to be really different in different places. So it's just risky and maybe a great chance for them now to remedy that. I think maybe if we can normalize redemption a little more, it would help. Right. It would help. Yeah. No one's asking. Nobody's saying, hey, I want, I'm, I really feel for Harvey Weinstein. I freaking don't. I want to kick him in the

nuts. That's not, I don't think that's what you are advocating by saying that or what I'm saying. I think I think it's there's just sort of a there's a middle space. where we just have to, some people just don't have the right language yet. You know what I mean? Like some people were raised in the, I don't know, 60s and 70s, and they're old now and they're running a school in Australia, and they just don't know how to say it because they don't have the language of it. The language of it is different and nuanced and new and, you know,

I just have a hard time condemning them. I think it's possible to be very critical of the method without condemning them to an early death. I just think there's more that can be done. Otherwise, what do we even do? What has happened in that school, right? Right. What led them to that moment?

And to me, that's always the most interesting question. Like, what happened to Harvey Weinstein? Like, what is the inner world there that led to that human doing the things that he did, right? And no, me, and I get, there are people who, that, they can't be curious about that because it feels too freaky. or it's not okay or he's just the worst right like everyone's i can get i understand that too i do think there is that like what's the curiosity behind like when you're saying maybe you don't have the language you didn't have the language to talk about transgendered issues you have more language now yeah i still don't have all of it but you know the three of us will never have the right

language to understand black life in america right um but can we get better at it can we understand. Yeah, but that takes time and that takes openness and curiosity and listening and not just surrounding yourself with the exact same thoughts of the people that just echo your what you think. And it comes back to this thing I talked about a couple of weeks ago. It's a self-protective response, which is what I have experienced is valid. What someone else experiences seem suspect to me, especially if I don't know them, right? So if you have ever said out loud, which I have said recently about a particular group. I'm very concerned about their lack of curiosity and solutions and hypocrisy. And I can say that and I think, say, I'm fine,

like I'm not doing it. But I'm a hypocrite, right? Any group of people is not a monolith. And I can be frustrated with their decisions or the way things are handled or whatever. This is tough. And who's going to teach our kids this when we struggle with it. Right. I mean, but this is part of being human, part of being in a giant group of mixed up types and tribes. That's what this is going to require of us. And so, I mean, if individually, if we could each sort of work with the parts of us that are, you know, hurt and try to understand them. Or why am I angry about something? you know why when this person I know got pulled over by a cop and was like so belligerent and terrible to this cop and and got arrested because he was he had a mourn for his arrest and now is

telling everyone like you know that the black people are just victims because he was fine and it was like okay dude do you hear yourself and if you can't hear yourself right if you can't see that your own bias or look in the mirror or be curious at all or curious enough about others because it may actually impact you. I mean, we kind of get in our tribes and we stay stuck and then yeah, but you got to just be willing to two things have to happen. You have to be willing to be open to somebody correcting you and those doing the correcting have to be willing to be open to the idea that you can be corrected. Like even if you don't or even if you can't be open to the idea that it's possible. That's all I think. I think the world would benefit on both

ends of this problem if there was just more of that more of everybody everywhere going I'm different I don't know admitting you don't know stuff and then admitting it's possible that the person who said a thing doesn't know either and they just don't know on a different level and maybe you know things they don't know and it doesn't mean they're there for the bin you can work with them you know and if you can't but it's worth it if you spent an entire day like an entire day just with like a notepad and every time someone said something did something that got your hackles up just bugged you a little bit right just write them all down and then get really curious at the end of the day like what is that about so for example i am notoriously

nice yes you have quite the you have such the right like you give me you talk when i don't doubt that one bit. You give me a face-to-face interaction and I will feel compassion immediately and I can, I can do, I'm socially appropriate. Like I have that down, right? But you put me in a car and someone drives badly and they are the devil. And so I would write that down. That would be part of my day. I would write down like, what is wrong with that driver? Yeah. They should not have a license and because I am in a hurry or something, right? That's right. So at the end of the day, is way more important than where you're going. And I don't know where you're going, but yeah.

Exactly. So the curiosity at the end of the day would look like, okay, what is that about for me? Because guess what? That person keeps changing. It's a different person every time. So it's clearly not them. It's got to be me. So what is it happening?

Well, it's because I'm always late and I always need to hurry. And it's always important. So my self-importance and my lack of planning equals me thinking every driver is bad. Guess what happened yesterday? I had to take my sweet alley. She had to get an MRI. and I did something I've never done. You left early?

I left so early that I was confused. And I kept thinking, what do people do when they just sit here in a waiting room? It was terrible. And I didn't have to panic, nothing. And guess what? There was not a single bad driver on the road. Yeah. How was that possible?

You didn't figure out some way to work in a Starbucks drive-through during that to return yourself back to. being late. I was so definite. And I was like, I need to bring three books. And okay. And then what else can I do? Like, should I run an errand? It was, but I stopped all of it.

And I was like, you know what? This is a big deal. We need to be there on time. You know, whatever. And we get there and I just had time. And she was like thanking me for taking her to her MRI. It was so sweet. And it was like, oh, because she doesn't have to like handle me being pissed because I was

late. and I'm mad at the world, right? It's so stupid and I know it. But that's, this is everyone's homework this week. I want people to try this where you just take a conversation that bugs you and give a couple hours in between when you would analyze this and just get really curious and like, what is this feeling telling me? And you can ask it. Remember Scott when you talked to your foot that one time? Take a minute and just like check in with the irritation.

I talk to them all the time. Yeah, we've developed a real strong relationship. Yeah. But you just check with it. It's weird because now it's talking back. Yeah, well, shut up. That's the problem. Shut up, foot.

Right. Yeah. Right. So in my case, it would have been, all right, what is this irritation about this driver about? Well, it's about my safety. Isn't it? Yeah. And yeah, yeah, probably.

I'm putting myself in this position. And this part's like, I got to protect you because you're an idiot. So here we go. I'm going to get you all riled up. So you got adrenaline. in case there's a car crash, right? Like, this thing is working for me, but I have created this scenario. And I need to get curious about it.

Like, you know, what is this actually about? So let's take that event. So this has been true with the vaccine, right? So the vaccine, I don't take medicine. Like, I have to take vitamins now. It turns out I have like no vitamin D in my whole body. I did it. I went to the doctor finally.

You know what doctors do? They find out things that are wrong and then make you take vitamin D. So I'm taking vitamin D and every day I'm like, I don't want to take this. And I'm like, okay, I got to figure what that's about. But so the vaccine comes along and I'm like, yes, and we're getting a vaccine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I'm like, oh, I don't actually like things like this. And so I got to work with.

And so like take that. I have some awareness about that. And this other part of me, hurt immunity, making sure other people are safe, making sure my family's safe. Like, that means more to me than I don't want to get a shot. And so I can override it. But there are plenty of us out there that there is some reason. There's something going on.

And if we can't get curious, we won't, we'll just stick with our tribe and our guns and we do whatever. We, our gut reaction tells us it is. And without curiosity, sometimes those gut reactions are overly protective and look like some bad stuff and make society hard. I should have mentioned, too, about the foot. that stopped it. I haven't had a problem with that foot since. And I don't mean, I don't mean like conversations with it. I mean like the reason I talked to in the first place, because you said, hey, is there something on you that like hurts or is bugging you or whatever? Yeah. And my left foot had been driving me crazy. I didn't sleep well at now. It was almost like permanent restless foot

syndrome. It was like constant. I didn't want to ask a doctor about it. I want to deal with it. I just knew it was like buzzing because I'm weird. And then when you had us do that, it like legit worked. Like from that, from that day forward, my foot doesn't do that. anymore. It's really weird. Like, it's almost magical. I know it isn't. It just wanted to, and here's my unifying theory. My unifying theory of the universe is this. Everyone, including our feet, just want to be heard. Just want to be listened to. Just want to be seen. Right. And so when you do this kind of event in a gymnasium anywhere in the world, especially Australia, I don't know why especially, but you are trying to get these girls to be heard and seen. That's what you're

trying to do. But you might have missed that those boys also need to be heard and seen and that when everyone's heard and seen, they tend to calm down, just like your foot. And so that is our greatest challenge. And that includes internally. So notice, I'm not listening to or seeing the certain parts of me that need to get in the car and hurry, right? I'm not actually taking care of myself. So there's other parts like, fine, we're going to hate everyone as we get on the road then because this is how we're going to keep safe. So it's a dumb example, but it really is the example of what we all are doing on an individual level that then shows up in the world.

And that's why someone can sit in the dark and write horrible things on a computer to other people, is that they aren't being seen or heard, and they don't know how to do that with themselves either. Because I can't do it with a driver, and I can do it face-to-face, and I'm not going to do it online. Like, we're all at different places, and that's okay. But, I mean, it really does start with this idea. And think about anyone you know, if you could really listen to them. Could they calm down? Yeah, they would because they wouldn't feel like we were saying with experts and people who were being talked down to, you know, like there's this, that's what

it is. It's like, really listen. So I'm going to recommend something that I thought was fascinating and also made me feel hopeless at the same time, which is the second act of the, The This American Life episode recently. Yeah. The first act will make you want to punch people who drive Tesla's in the face. Yeah. The second act, though, it's, it's whatever the most recent version episode is, not the re-won. I think there's a re-wine this week.

But the second act of it is this attempt to get people who are hesitant about the vaccines to get a vaccine. and what it takes and what they are thinking and like they're it's fascinating so somebody listen to it and then we'll have a conversation all right yeah all you Tesla lovers give that a shot and we'll look at it well it's not all Tesla owners just you'll get confused if I could get a Tesla I would get one because I like electric cars but I get your point I get your meaning yeah yeah there's a certain air to it well you don't get mad I mean, nobody feels this way about the Nissan leaf is what I'm saying. I'm going to tell you right now, we have a Nissan leaf.

And trust me, no one is trying to punch us in the face. All they're thinking is, you guys can only go 100 miles and then you got to charge for eight hours. That seems cool. Yeah. It makes me so mad. How has that been? Like just as an owner of an electric vehicle, have you guys, I mean, obviously you've probably seen the gas savings and stuff. But like overall, how's that experience been?

Do you like it? Yeah, we got it. And then there was a pandemic, so we never drove it again. And no. Perfect timing. No, we really saved a lot of money because no one commutes anymore. Adam got it to commute and the gas savings is astonishing. But I have to say it is hard to only have 107 miles.

Yeah, I was going to say, do you ever say, oh, you don't be really fun to do a road trip. Oh, no. Or like the kids have these different camping things in faraway places coming this summer. And I'm like, literally one of us can. not drive the other kid to camp. It's not going to happen. So there are, it's definitely inconvenient in that regard. So I get the Tesla. I get the better battery thing, but it is, I have to say what's the most fun about it is the quietness. Now I think every car is just ridiculous. Yeah. Some states are, I don't know if this happened. Wasn't the deal,

some states were going to make electric car makers make the cars produce more engine noise, just fake engine noise because they're worried about people getting hit more often because they don't hear the car because they walk in front of a silent car. It is a camera and everyone has headphones in. I mean, it is dangerous for sure. But it has a little fake beepy thing when you go backwards. It's like, it's like, okay, this is what it is. It's like a devoted loving dad car.

And then the Tesla is the cheating new midlife crisis car. that it feels to me. So we're going to stick with her. I mean, there's some marketing there. There's some Milan Musk there. There's factors there that just affect the way that those cars are perceived. But it is pretty funny how different it seems anyway, that if you are a Tesla owner versus a leaf owner or a vault or any of these other dumb cars or even a hybrid. And it doesn't help that I really do know quite a few.

like that's what they do when they are leaving their wife is they get their Tesla or that's what like a Tesla is the new way it's the new convertible it's the new midlife crisis it really is and you just look around look a little deeper scratch below the service you will be shocked what you will find but also I'm getting a Tesla now Brian do you not get a Tesla I will bunch of things however I'm in I'm in Norway when we're living over there and everyone has a Tesla in Norway by the way. It's like not even cool. And this dude's driving by and a brand new one, the shiniest paint job you've ever seen it with a full on willbarrow strapped to the roof. Like metal to metal. Oh my God. And it's because it's not that big a deal. That's what they drive.

And so I always think if we can be Norway, that's fine, but we're not. We're not Norway. We're not Norwegian. I don't want no scratched roof of my car. Are you kidding me? What are you? It was so funny. No, you don't want that. That's how you know people ski. All right. Well, this has all been good. Do your homework, everybody, and listen to those episodes of This American Life. But also, check out real steps. Your other homework.

Yeah, your other homework. Write down your stuff and review it at the end of the day. Then go to real steps. org and decide if that's for you as well. Wendy, anything to say about that this week? We have started Mays round and we've got a ton of new people and it's so fun so far. It's awesome. So the next round will be in August, but you can go to Real Steps and put your email in

and you'll get maybe one email right before August. Oh, very nice. To remind you, maybe to, yeah, that's our next round. So we do it every quarter, February, May, August, and November's super fun because it's Thanksgiving. And it's all about how to really enjoy Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah. Not to feel sick and fall on the couch,

but to like, savor every last minute of that dinner. Oh, wow. It's a lot of fun. So sign up or, I don't know, listen to me, talk about it every week. Either way, you're good. I get these emails from it, from Wendy, and it's like a weird little, oh, there's my sister sending me interesting things about real steps.org.

You too can be those people. So go sign up. Hey, Wendy, have a fantastic week. And may all of your school assemblies be non-controversial by now. I stunder into silence there. You didn't know what to say. You did. All right, Brian, we have come to the close of today's proceedings.

And really there's nothing much else to say, except for this. It's sort of a new month. We're six days in. But if you haven't already done it, head on over to patreon.com slash TMS. Great content like today's is only possible because you support us via the Patreon. Patreon.com slash TMS. Don't be afraid. Head on over there and check it out.

We're also at frogpans.com slash TMS. And before we go, we're doing one of these. I like to eat. We're going to eat. This right here. My sneaky way of, uh... Yeah, that was good. good. You got it in for your last second.

Yeah, what's that? Let's do the... Just a bag of beef. A bag of beef. Thick sliced beef jerky. Tara or Tara, we don't know for sure. Sent these in. No, we know for sure it's Tara. Oh, it is Tara. Okay. She has confirmed. I'm going to open this bag of beef, Japanese beef. Do you think this is real meat in this bag?

Ooh, I hope so. The, like, there's like a word, like it says the something beef. Yeah, the Japanese beef. Yeah, I'm doing a little Google Translate on this as I open it. Oh, it smells good. Oh, it's a sure. Real beef smell. All right, I'm going to take a bite here.

Let's see what we got. It's a little red. The snacks. Even though it's thick, eat it is what it says. That's what I always say. Even though it's thick. It's a bummer. I can't get that one back.

So now it just says, easy to eat, though it is. thick. I'll save your screenshot. This is very good. I'll eat that whole bag by the end of the day. Is it Kobe? That's probably not Kobe. No.

It's like, um, I think it's just beef, beef. Mm-hmm. It's good, though. It's not, I don't even, I'm not even really getting the terriaki out of it. I guess it's not supposed to be terriarchy necessarily. That's funny. I assume that because it's Japanese.

Oh, it must be terriaki. Right, right. it's good right it's really good yeah and i think it's real i think it's real meat yeah it's a beef mhm that's like to finish that one later because can't really finish a show while i chew on a piece of beef jerky no it's a lot harder it turns out it's not as good as the stuff jesse call sent us i'm just going to say that right now oh i've got a whole bag right here and i've been it's bad for me actually because i played um i was playing eso last night and i just had this bag of jerky and i just had this bag of jerky And there was just no denying it.

I'm like, I'm not putting in the, you got to put in the freezer. Oh, really? Why the freezer? Because he emailed and said, make sure you guys keep in the freezer. Oh, did he? Mm-hmm. So far, I haven't died. I'll put it in the freezer.

Okay, good, yeah, just put in the freezer. Okay, I didn't know that was a thing. I mean, it's cured, so it should be fine, but his recommendation to make it last longer or something was put in the freezer. I sent you a text of the bag. Let's take a look at your bag. Brian always sends me pictures of his bag. always get pictures of my bag He'll say, is this look infected

And things like that Is this supposed to look like this? Yeah And I'm happy to help It's not a problem I don't mind Looking at your bag Very generous of you to offer your insight

On my bag I have no like professional experience in bag Sure Inspection but I'm happy to do it No but you're the closest person I can show my bag to this Right You don't want to just show your bag to anybody

No People you trust no Silly There it is easy to eat, though it is thick. The snacks beef. Thick sliced beef jerky. Thick sliced beef jerky.

Ten. Ten. Strengthen. What's with the strengthen? I don't know. Popular products, 10 strengthen. Oh, Japan. Never change.

Okay. That's it. Yeah. That's it. We're done. Yeah. Let's do a song. Do you have a song?

I do have a song. Oh, that's great. That song is, actually, for whatever reason, I was already in the title for I forgot that we actually do. I really did forget that we actually do one more thing here. Hey, look, Senior Geek wrote in, man, and he said, as of April 29th, just a few days ago, about a week ago, I am a fully trained member of the Millennium Falcon flight crew in Black Spire outpost on the outer rim planet of Batu. Whoa.

He has the job that we all dream of. The closest thing I can find to a cover of the Millennium Falcon theme, is Andrew Allen's tie fighter tie fighter attack from the album, live from the canteena. If Brian has a better idea, feel free to substitute. Oh, Brian does not have a better idea. Disneyland opens to the public on April 30th when you get the chance. Come visit me in Black Spire Outpost. You know, I'm coming, Gary, but it won't be until after June, oh, June 4th or June 6th or something.

I'm not going there until the Avengers area opens and then I'm going to see the Star Wars area and then I'm going to see the Avengers area and my life will be complete. Yep. Then you can, then you can reasonably die with happiness. Then I can say, ah, I've done it, and the plane can fall in the Pacific Ocean on its way back to Denver. No rush on this request whenever you can fit it and sign, Gary Fisher. Well, Gary, one of our longtime listeners, I'm not going to call them one of our oldest listeners, but one of our long-time listeners. And great recommendation for a song, yeah, this came out on the Andrew Allen tribute, jazz tribute to Star Wars, called Live. from the canteena even features some brilliant

artwork on the cover by one Scott Johnson Yeah But inspired greatly by the Brian My Mr. Brian a bit by the way Oh well you know thank you I also still have some cover or some albums And some of the print pack that we had That has Scott's art as well of Steve Hammaker's art

Of Luke and R2D2 So Hit me up and we'll talk I'm not give them to you free but you know anyway let's do this here it is here's tie fighter attack by the Andrew Allen trio awesome uh happy birthday there's no birthday oh there was no birthday

no he's just working at the Malian falcon flight crew happy happy happy new position day happy getting out of of the toy story Woody lot Woody lot do I have anything with Woody in it hold on yeah here we go That's funny. Oh, that's Woody Harrelson. Oh, that's Woody Harrelson.

I was wondering what that was. Yeah, that was really weird. All right. Anyway, here's your song. We'll see you guys. Monday, unless you come to TMSPM tomorrow and you're a patron, then you can be here for that at 2.30 Mountain, sorry, tomorrow afternoon. And check out the instance tomorrow morning.

We'll also have a core tonight. Lots going on. We'll see you then. I'm going to be, you know, and then. I'm going to be able to be. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more shows like this at FrogPants.com. Fresh fish.

Oh.