The Morning Stream - TMS 2124: HTC Weed

Episode Date: June 3, 2021

A Group Of Macocks Are Called A Podcast. Beer, Free Donut, and Free Ride! VapoRub, Now with WEED! Recycling is realy hosed. Bluetooth Speakery Unit. Do TikTokers have brains, because I seriously wanted to know! Drop That Blood, You Damned, Dirty Primates! Heavy And Rubbery. The Morning Hate-Listening Stream. You Have To Do It In Those Two Or Three Days, Or You Are In Trouble! Regular Old Pill Market. Cars are Not Vacuums. Legal Window Openings! The Old Flu Way. Staying alive with Gibby Frankenburger. Therapy Thursday and more on this episode of The Morning Stream. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode is brought to you by RISE, a science-based app that makes it easy to improve your sleep and daily energy. Go to rise science.com slash TMS and download the RISE app today to try it for free for seven days. Coming up on TMS, a group of macaques are called a podcast. Beer, free donut, and a free ride. Vapo rub. Now with weed. Recycling is really hosed. Bluetooth speakery unit. Do TikTokers have brains because I like seriously wanted to know? Drop that blood, you damned dirty primates.

Heavy and rubbery. The morning hate listening stream. You have to do it in those two or three days, or you're in trouble. Regular old pill market. Cars are not vacuums. Legal window openings. The old flu way. Staying alive with Gibby Frankenberger.

Therapy Thursday and more on this episode of the morning stream. How do they do? Where do they find all that energy? That seemingly inexhaustible store of pep and ginger. What about my? My burning desire to study and learn a vocation. This is the morning stream. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the morning stream, TMS for Thursday, June 3rd, 2021.

I'm Scott Johnson with Brian Ibit Hi. Hello, happy Friday Eve. Yeah, baby. As they say. I got a pot full of leftover jumbole in the fridge and all as well at the Johnson House. Nice. That's a good, you know, that's always a good staple, right? It's like two or three days of really good leftover consumption.

Oh, there's nothing like it. It's the best. But you got to do it in those two or three days or else, you know, you're asking for trouble. That's right. Speaking of which, so while we were having some of that, some friends came by, it's nice to have some vaccinated friends again, you know, people who are just, you can see him, you can hang out, you're in the same club now, you're in the vaccine club and you can just sort of hang out.

The Vax Club, yes, that's right. And Josh Fitzgerald, a good pal of ours, who we didn't, I never, when we first met him, he was already a fan of, like, the shows, and so that was all funny. But anyway, he's a pharmacist guy, and he used to be like Dan and did, like, pharmacy things. but then the big ventricle marijuana business came to Utah and he took a job where he is now purely a weed dealer, not a dealer, but you know what I mean? Like he's the guy who like the doctor's call and say, I have patients who have this and this and this. We need to do prescriptions for HTC, this and that and the other. And now he's the one who gives you your weed.

He gives me your weed. He's your weed guy now. And it was just a fascinating conversation about all the stuff they got going on. They got this crazy HTC, not HTC, T-HC, T-HC, you know, the vibe, the people that make the vibe. Your favorite VR helmet. Oh, yeah, I love that thing, yeah. They used to do a lot of phones, but now it's all about the vibe. Sorry, THC.

He's got some kind of vapor rub that's like menthol plus THC and some other stuff that you put on like a muscle that's hurt or a broken whatever, and it's supposed to be just like, ah. Really? Interesting. Yeah, or if you're like somebody who gets, like you're a cancer, you're going through the chemo, right? Right, right. This is a relieving, soothing kind of thing. Right. And I don't know. I mean, Tina could probably speak to this, but like my sister-in-law just finished 12 rounds. And her hands hurt all the time. Just like screaming nerve pain in her fingers and hands. And that stuff, the weed rub, I guess, just knocks it out. Interesting.

I mean, because we know, you know, that they've got the stuff that's just there. regular CBD right stuff but I think Nicole talked about how she got stuff that had THC years ago

yeah for her arm or her shoulder or whatever it was and um oh she felt loopy oh yeah it'll it'll be weird uh you know

but he's got all this like cool samples at his house but he's the nicest most like how do I explain Josh he's like the most unassuming just like oh hey here everybody how's it going eh

like he's not Canadian but Kaneda he's definitely not Canadian but he's got he's got this very kind of unassuming quality about him

and then you find out what he's doing and he's like leading the state in this stuff to the point that they ask him to be on panels and on commissions

and it gets interviewed all the time he did some 30 episode YouTube thing about medical marijuana and the benefits to different things and all this

and I'm just saying Dan needs to up his game get out of the regular old pill market get into the weed man yeah so i wonder um in north carolina i mean medical has got to be legal in north carolina right i have no idea i don't think recreational is yet but um yeah right they'll be slow on the recreational just like we are uton yeah the carolinas will be like the last on the list probably but right right no there's that's a it's a it's a booming market out here just judging by the number of of places that open up and do this.

But because it's still not federally legal, you can't just take your weed money that you've made to the bank. You've got to basically have to do like illegal means to deposit the money that you've legally earned by selling your legal weed. Yeah, it's weird, right? All that stuff is still so so weird right now. We know somebody and I'm so I'm totally not just. going to go any further than just saying that it's somebody we know has taken to burying their

money on this closed location because they don't want to have it in their house but they can't take it to a bank this wouldn't be a neighbor who might be crazy would it no no he's not a he's not he's not a he's not a he's not a salesman but is it someone you and i both know who bears their they're burying their uh their money is i don't think so okay i don't know do we? I don't know. Do we not know? I don't know. I'm not saying I know. Yeah. That's as far as I'm going to lose. Okay. It's fine. Well, yeah, because I don't want somebody to say, oh, it's so and so great. I'm heading to their backyard to go dig up all their money. That's right. Tom Merritt. Just kidding, not Tom Merritt. You never know. Hey, a quick camera check. How's your garbage can? Just got to check.

Well, it's funny. So I texted Crazy Neighbor and said, here's a page from this recycling company that's not Denver. but another recycling company that says that they won't take, specifically, won't take hose reels. It's really funny that they go that far, but this document's awesome. Like it says, that's great. Vienna, Wisconsin, here are things not allowed in

recycling bins, and one of the things is hose reels. And so I texted her and said, you know, I'm not sure they're going to take it. And then she says, oh, sorry, Tina told me I could. I'll come and get it. So I watched Crazy Neighbor come around, pick up her hose reel out of our bin, take it to maybe their trash can, I can't tell. And then come back and put a bunch of boxes in ours.

Oh, so she did the thing you were saying. She did the thing I was saying. She didn't put the hose reel in her recycling bin. Right. But as she was doing that, Tina came home. Because Tina had an early interview this morning. And I can see them out there chatting. And I'm sure I'm like, you know, crazy neighbors probably saying, well, your husband says,

that to take it out of there, you know, I say it as nicely as possible, but of course, it's probably to get real or reconfigured to be like, well, Brian yelled at me for putting this in your recycling bin. Yeah, that's awesome. I kind of, I kind of wish that we would have seen, I just kind of wanted to see what was going to happen there, if they would have. Yeah. Did the crazy neighbor, did she do her yacht rock dances?

You left to, uh, she, I don't know why that video stuck with me. me, it is permanently burned into my head. It's something about the music and her moving, and I don't know what it is. It is, it is the best, uh, it is the best little, a little short, little meme. God, what was that, Vine or, uh, wasn't Periscope? What did I share that thing on? It was like six seconds long, so it easily could have been vine. It was probably Vine, yeah, back of the day.

We all poked around with fun. Have you tried Twitter spaces yet? I did one day, and I decided that was enough. That was good. it's like oh yeah this is why i don't like that other service clubhouse uh so yeah forget it i guess it's cool you know once in a while just have a little hey a bunch of tadpooly types jumped in and we talked and it was fine but it's not it's not just like there's just no i don't know there's another we we do this every day we get this is here we are doing it right now you

and i are doing it in some traditional way so so what is twitter spaces says maravina yeah a lot of people ask that also what are people people will be asking that in five months Yeah, what is Twitter, what's the top thing, the stories, their rip-off of stories called? Twitter fleets, fleets. Right. Yeah. Hey, when's the last time he checked a fleet? A fleet.

It's been a while. I never, I've yet to record one and yet to, well, no, I visited a couple, but then I forgot it was there. And I don't use the app anymore. So, screw you guys. I'm back to Twitter. It's like 2008 all up in here. All right. Hey, a couple quick things.

Bam, I got to, oh, there's so much today. There's so much today. We got a bunch of stuff here at the top. We got Bobby coming up here in a minute. We've got an email to read him. Windy later. Windy later, a bunch of stuff. And then all of it has some great multimedia possibilities.

Okay, so. Oh, really? Great. Okay. So, for example, Joel wrote in and sent me a recording of him talking to his Amazon Echo. I'm not going to say the A word. And I also bleeped it out in his recording. Okay.

All right. So that it doesn't set off anything for anyone, including me. Here's, I didn't thought about this. Okay, you know how we come up with really dumb names. Well, we don't, but our tadpool comes with a bunch of great names to choose from for the show. For the show title. Right. And then we just put them in there and we don't really think too much about it.

But we're basically forcing this, you know, very efficient voiceover assistant lady who's on your echo to say these terrible titles once in a while when you play or resume one of our episodes. Sure. So he sent this audio in and just wanted me to hear it. So let's play it for the show. Here you go. You hear a little beep at the top. That's just the A word. I'll continue. Resuming the morning stream from Amazon music. TMS 2,123. Basement Baby Glob Unit.

It was a gross night. It's what I'm saying. Basement baby glob unit. Oh my God. I want some of these for like, what have we had? Pumping Bee Juice. Looking back at some past titles. Yeah, there's some killer stuff in here. Let me pull up. Don't woo in my car. to Oregon Fish Sandwich. Right.

Mitt Zuber. I want to hear that. I want to hear Pizza Man go. Find fake pee? You're in trouble. Rotten meat curious. That would be fun. Who is Dick Price?

That's a fun one. I love it. I love it. We need, yeah, I want to hear more of these. Isn't that awesome? I love that. Thank you for that. Also, I didn't know Amazon music did.

I submitted the podcast to Amazon, but I didn't know what that was for. I guess now I know. Yeah. I get it now. You can just play it through Amazon music, which is kind of cool. And if you didn't know that, do it. Google Home also does it. Pause it and resume it. Yeah. You can listen to our stuff on whatever you want. Quick product review. Hold on. Okay. 30 bucks. Uh-huh.

We're looking for a good outdoor... My is currently charging. Good outdoor Bluetooth speakery unit. Oh, sure. They're all a little expensive. And I checked the wirecutter.com. because those guys never lead me astray and I thought well what's in their budget selection and they were raving about this thing

called the tribit tribit X sound go you should I call it to pronounce tribut oh it might be tribut oh I'm kidding it's probably the tribut you might be right maybe it is the tribut it might be the tribut now that you say it that's a better marketable name tribut

it is yeah it's heavy and rubbery which I like because that means any kind of base in there is sort of contained and not ratily it's days on the table and it's you know whatever i've been blown away by this little thing it's tiny take it anywhere 25 hours of battery life um nice and it plays beautifully and it just connects to anything and it's i mean i realize we're it's 2021 yeah Bluetooth works i get it but yeah it's really rad to the point that they and it was so inexpensive these are only 30 bucks i was like i'm buying one for you know kim to take outside for whatever we want to do on the porch or whatever but

going to get one of these for just down here to just switch over from like, I don't want to wear headphones and play my PC games. I'm just going to transfer to this because this sounds better than the speakers I have. That's crazy. That's crazy. Anyway, yeah, we picked up, it was on sale, I think 45 bucks, the Wonderboom, which is more of a squat cylinder. Yeah. But it can go, you know, if we're in the neighbor's pool, we can bring it over and it just floats in the water and and uh plays music and how it sounds good sounds amazing does it yeah i don't know these things have come so far remember when they were so tinny they really have yeah so there you go take your music on the road everybody it's summer

yep it's white hot red tms summer get out there and look at you not getting something that's made by aki or anchor right right like i don't well who the hell knows who tribut is i don't never even heard of these. That's true, yeah. But it seems good. And for 30 bucks, I don't know, I always try. I trust, I trust wire cutter. They never, they never tell me the wrong thing.

Yeah, yeah. All right. Now, now this, the question that's very important. This is a very good question, yeah. I agree. Let's let the lady who I heard on TikTok ask it. Okay, so here's her actual question. How are we breathing in cars?

Because, like, there's no air holes in a car. And like, you shut your door. so like how does the oxygen like get in and there's like no law to like open your window every five minutes so like how do you breathe in a car all right i feel like it's important we answer this question here on the show really this reminded me about dogs and their brains and so i know it's almost it is almost her it is almost the dog's brains was this was this on tictock by the way it was a ticot video um it was sent actually by a listener and then i also happen to get it in my feed just naturally. So we must be on the same wavelength, me and this guy. It was in my, it was in my for-you page. But, yeah, Jed Stoak squirrels says,

I wish her car had no air. I mean, I would say this to this lady, if she's listening. I'm sure she isn't. And she was probably, I don't know, 18 or something. Cars are not, her medically vacuum-sealed areas. It's not an airlock, right? You don't go in there and everything gets sucked out, nor does anything. Like, you could say this about a building.

I don't know, Scott. I've seen those movies where the good guy accidentally gets pushed into, like, their car forced into a lake. Right. And their car just, you know, stays completely devoid of water until they roll down a window and climb out or bust a window open. Yeah, it's perfectly sealed. 100% waterproof, so therefore, airproof. Yeah, but you can say. this about your house, your bathroom, any closed space. So why her brain didn't just go from

well, let me think of this space. Now another space. Oh, right. These are similar in that they all have air because they're not sealed spaces. Yeah. Yeah. So, so that's the answer. I'm just saying if anyone's helped by this. Mostly I just wanted to mock that person. All right, if I'm honest. Of course. Of course. Yeah. What else are we here? Now, if we were to take her car and put her inside it, And then completely wrap it in plastic tarp with duct tape and cover all the sides in every possible opening. Then she'd have a good question. She'd have a good point. Yeah.

Then she'd make a point. And we could have a discussion about that and mourn her loss. We could do all those things at once. That's right. All right. You guys, here's something I like. I think science is cool. That science is cool.

And I also think it's cool that Bobby comes on the show and talks to us about science. Man, Bobby, your hair is longer every time I see you, dude. Look at that. Bobby, should we get a law to open our car windows every five minutes or so? Should there be a law? Did you know that they actually put a device into cars to make it? You used to not be able to breathe in them. And then they added the air conditioner.

Oh, is that it? Okay. Yeah. It takes the air from the outside and brings it inside so that you don't suffocate before you get to your destination. I do like to my fart go in a car. How come I... Yeah, how does your fart escape? They're still working on that.

That's a known problem. I don't know why she also brought up that part about there's no law. That's what I was... That's why I brought that up. It's like, what a weird direction to go like... Yeah. So there should be a law that you open your windows every five minutes. Because that's what will keep everybody alive.

Yeah. Well, we live in a nation of states, and so they have to go through each state's legislative, legislative branch. It's a complicated process. Yeah. I don't know why we say united, but, you know, there are days where you wonder. All right. We should just call ourselves states. No, what would we be?

States. A lot of people do call us the states. The states. That's good. That'll work. The states. Yeah, that's fine. Bobby's here.

We're going to do some science. I'm going to kick it off with an email. Bobby, if you're all right with this, I'm just going to read this. Yeah, we got an email, huh? Yeah, we did. And it leads right into your discussion topic. week. This came from Lois. Taffy lady. Lois. She says, hello, Frank and Bobby says this. I'm one of those folks who is medically exempt from getting the vaccine. I had one dose and had a lovely allergic

reaction and had to be told by medical staff no more for me. And the J&J is just not an option for me either. That makes sense if they try the one, they're not going to give you the other. So I have a natural COVID, I have natural COVID antibodies having COVID sucks, by the way. And one dose of Pfizer vaccine. My concern is, what will my future look like when there might be guidelines slash restrictions for those who are fully vaccinated, i.e. You can only go on a cruise if you're fully vaccinated or someone can come into your country if you're only fully vaccinated. I know things are constantly evolving and changing. What would you do in my position other than keep wearing masks and social distancing?

Thanks, says Lois. That's a very good question. Yeah, it really is. So, Bobby, what would you say to her? because she is in a unique category there. Yeah, well, first of all, I would like to express my sympathy. That really stinks, that you can't finish the whole process. And you're not alone.

There are people that this happens to, and that's why she was probably told pretty quick, like, okay, this is how we handle that. Let's not finish to be safe. Right. But the short answer to our question about what to do and what is it going to mean for future regulations and all that kind of stuff is unfortunately we don't know exactly because we're like we're still in this process but we do know some things and we know how this kind of thing is handled for other vaccines

so we can maybe use that as a way to figure out what's going to happen in this specific case that she's dealing with. So, first of all, there's likely to be exceptions and exemptions to the requirements for COVID vaccination. Because there are people that are in Lois's position, and you can't just say that they're not allowed to do anything forever now. Right, right. So we come up with exemptions, and these exemptions are based on the fact that as long as we can reach herd immunity, through vaccination, then she's going to be protected anyway. Yeah, isn't that the idea here is that if we all, if everyone who can do it, does it,

the whole point of that isn't just that we're now, you know, okay, is that those who can't are more protected. The reason why we are pushing so hard to get to herd immunity is because there are people in the world who cannot get the vaccine and they would love to. But they can't. Right. And so we have to help them. What do you think?

It's funny because it's a situation now where, you know, when you can get the vaccine, you're less reliant on the people who aren't getting the vaccine. Because you can say, well, I've had the vaccine. I'm okay. You're not, you know, you're not getting it because of your beliefs or you worry about microchip or whatever. But for the most part, I'm okay because I've got my vaccine. But when you can't get the vaccine and you want it, you're much more reliant on those people

who aren't getting it for whatever reason. I was already mad at those people, but now I'm mad at those people. So let me ask a question, the TVZGone asked. He says he didn't catch the entire email, but in terms of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, isn't it an entirely different kind of vaccine?

Like it's not the MRNA, whatever stuff. It's like a, you know, it's more traditional. It's a piece of the virus. It's a, you know, kind of the old, flu way of doing it because she's allergic to the one that why would she why would that be a concern do you think that's probably just the physician being cautious just acting out of an abundance of caution because they probably don't know why whatever reaction she had why she had the reaction we can maybe guess most of the allergic reactions that are happening to the

mRNA vaccine are due to polyethylene glycol, which is a stabilizer that's in it. It's in a lot of things. It's not unusual that it's in that. In fact, it's a polyethylene glycol is used in a lot of laxatives. If you take some of it, it'll make you go poo-pooh. Jay, you mark that one, please. I love that one. That was a good one for a clip. Yeah, no, that's, I was going to say.

that's what this Miralax business is that my wife had. Yes, exactly. It is. Miralax is. That's just what it is, is polyethylene glycol. Yeah, tons of it. But it's also used as a stabilizing agent in vaccines. And so that was a known thing. And only a couple of people have had reactions to that and allergies to that. So her reaction to this could be maybe not even an allergy. It could be something else. But it's hard to test that and know. So what physicians will do whenever people have a reaction is just say, okay, well, you had a bad reaction to this so we're just don't take anymore and don't take another one since we don't don't know um one dose though of especially the Pfizer vaccine already gives her around 85% effectiveness at at preventing COVID so that's really good even even though she had the reaction she still would have the antibodies from the vaccine and so

So she's very well protected against COVID. Now, obviously, you still want to get the second dose and go through the whole thing if you can. But in her specific case, I want her to not worry too much about getting COVID. That's probably not your main concern. Your main concern is going to be to participate in society now. Right, exactly. Getting to go on cruises or travel and be able to say, yeah, here's my proof that I've had it. There has to be, there have to be more people who have this same allergy.

So, you know, and maybe you don't know the answer to this, but is there work being done on other versions of the vaccine that maybe get delivered in a way that doesn't interfere with people's allergies? Yeah, or doesn't have the Merylachs in it or whatever. I think so. There are dozens of, we hear about like five main vaccines right now, but they're. There are dozens being worked on all over the world. So it's likely that we'll see some come out later that maybe people would be able to get who do have these allergies. But I still think even if you don't, it's likely you will get to do stuff. There will be exemptions in place.

I mean, public schools have exemptions for people who can't get vaccines, for example. You usually have to have some sort of medical documentation that you can't get the vaccine. So you would want to make sure that you have like a note from your doctor saying that you can't get it. Just put it on the same card as the first vaccine, you know, and that way you've got, well, I got the first one and here's why I didn't get the second. At least you got it. Some sort of proof. I don't know if it would go on the card. Who knows what those cards are even going to be used for?

They're giving us these cards. That are the wrong size. You can't put them in a wallet. Not only that, like you can fake these. They're selling them everywhere. It's just stupid. Like, if we're going to do, if they're going to go that hard, they got it as hard as they do on money where they change it all the time

and put chips in it and make it, you know, only scannable and by a certain kind of camera and, like, all the dumb things you have to do. Bitcoin. They're not going to do it. Yeah, track it with the blockchain. Great idea. Have you seen people doing the selfies with the cards and they, like, put a finger over some part of the information?

But, like, I look at mine. I don't know what information you're trying to hide, really. Right. Yeah. Someone's name, I guess. Mine just shows which King Supers I had my dose was administered and that my full name. It's like, yeah, yeah, whatever, you're welcome to it. And my birthday's on it.

Like, okay, I want you to know my birthday. Yeah, celebrate. That's not really terrible information to have, unless there's some reason we don't want to know you were born that day. But yeah, like, it's a weird, I don't know, these are great questions because we haven't really had to address these before. It's certainly in a modern society. It's a really good question. And CDC's confusing communication about this doesn't make it any easier to process all this stuff. Right.

And to know what's going to happen and everything. It's... Part of me feels... It's hard. I feel for them a little because I don't know what you... I don't think they know entirely. And why would they exactly know? Because some of this is not...

Because now you're talking about mixing pathology with sociology with, like, just regular old logistics of how people move around and live their lives like that's a complicated web when you're talking about a country of 300 and whatever million people and then broaden that out and talk about you know there are multiple nations and then a worldwide effort and that needs to be coordinated

and like it's just complicated um yeah but I would and yeah if I if I were her uh and I mean she has a couple things going for her she's had COVID which sucks but she had it so that I don't know if it stacks right you'd have to tell me

Like, is this a World of Warcraft buff where she got COVID, then she got a first shot, and somehow that combination is going to help her in some way? There's a 10-month cool-down, though, that... Yeah, I don't know if the buff stack in this case, actually. I know that the... I think the vaccine might just override it, you know? Vaccines have a lot to do with just antibodies and having them, And I think the vaccine is designed to do a better job than natural infection anyway.

So I think it just kind of overrides that in that. Okay. So you probably can't stack them. It's like replaces the buff. And it's like it's a slightly better buff. It'd be better. It's also dangerous to kind of imply that stacking them would be good, right? Because you don't want people to think like, well, I should go get COVID and then get the vaccine.

Yeah. That's a good point. Nobody do that. Please. That's a bad idea. And we still don't even. know about boosters for everyone else like and we won't know that for a while yeah that's going to be a bit um i was i was reading yesterday given the you know the amazing weather the country's having and

everybody uh you know more vaccinations happening and then get more restlessness on the parts of those who don't want to get vaccinated but still don't care want to go out and you know hit the lake or whatever it two weeks from now we're going to learn a lot about where we're at when everybody's getting together for fourth of july we're also going to come by the fall when when everybody goes back indoors when flu when normally flu season would roll around and everybody is going back inside fall and winter will by then we should know if because if COVID starts popping up again then that's going to tell us what we need to know about boosters and whether this is an endemic virus endemic meaning that it's going to keep coming back

year after year yeah um yeah i'd love that not to be did you guys see the uh the the Biden address to the nation yesterday about COVID? No, no, I missed it. I saw the greatest hits. I may have. I may have, I mean, I was, I took melatonin, but I probably should have watched that because that would have really put me in. But anyway, why? It was between the two. Yeah. Yeah, what, why? What did we miss? What, what came of it? It was actually pretty good. He seems to be, he's, he's talking about, he's, he's doing this push. The government's doing this push now. They want to get 70% of adults vaccinated by the 4th of July. So this whole month, they're really pushing for people.

Right now we're at about 62% of adults. And 8% doesn't seem like a lot, but it really is at this point because we're really pushing against that hesitancy wall. That's kind of a push-us-over-the-line kind of number, right? It's pretty close. We still don't know what herd immunity means, like where that number is. But, like we're thinking, it's around 70, 80%, probably. Maybe as low as 65%. But we don't know.

So 70% is just, like, looking a lot better if we get there. But it felt a lot like also that the message from this whole initiative to get everybody was in response to those confusing CDC guidelines. So if people are listening, they don't know what I'm talking about. CDC back in May said they changed the guidelines, basically saying, if you're fully vaccinated, burn your mask and go hogwild. But that's at least the way that people interpreted it, and that was the problem, right? But people are confused by the sudden reversal of the CDC's guidelines and their change in telling vaccinated people that they're okay to not quarantine.

anymore and they can travel and they don't have to wear masks. Yeah, it tends to lend more, it gives more fuel to the, oh, it's a hoax. Look at that. Look how quickly the CDC changes, which drives me nuts. Like, no, that's not what it means. Also, have you ever been to the DMV? We're just inefficient around here. We just don't know.

That's right. Well, it's a brand new thing. We don't know everything about it. Jeez. My worry is that the changing guidelines, even though they are based in science and it's true if you're fully vaccinated, you're pretty safe. You don't need to wear a mask anymore. Still follow whatever the business and local guidelines and everything are, of course.

But those are for respect and legal reasons. But what worries me is that it's going to give unvaccinated people, like, cover to stop wearing masks when they didn't want to to begin with. Oh, I guarantee that's happening. Yeah, it's already. They're already doing it. Already a thing, I'm afraid. Well, all right. that's an interesting look at where we're at um you know i know you know part of me is like well after

this year and a half or so we're you know we're all so sick of covid and whatever but it does feel like we're getting to that point that we are all aiming for you know like there's some goals there were goals and now they're in sight maybe and um yeah that'd be awesome there's a lot of stuff we don't know like you said uh you know a yearly a yearly a yearly bounce back is still a question We don't know about boosters. We don't know about, you know, what variations or whatever. I don't even want to think about that dude that got bird flu the other day. Let's just not think about him for now because there's a brand new bird strain.

I don't want to know about it. Just stay in China there. Somebody lock him in. Be done. Stay over there. And what happened to the murder hornets? Yeah, where are them just forget about the murder hornets? Exactly.

Somebody think about the murder hornet. Oh, my gosh. Don't you consider the murder hornets. There are so much talk of murder Hornets, and now nothing. What are they hiding? All right. If you haven't gotten your vaccine and you're waiting for, there are plenty of good reasons that people were waiting, reasons that make sense, just, you know, you can get it. This new initiative is basically saying they're going to give a tax break to, this goes into the political end of things, and I don't know a lot about it, but they're going to give tax breaks to businesses that give.

paid time off for people to get a vaccine and for any side effects that they have afterwards. So that's good. There are a bunch of like daycare centers that are going to be watching kids for free while parents get vaccines. Uber and Lyft are giving free rides to and from vaccine centers. Yeah, to get your vaccines. Oh, that's cool. Don't forget, don't forget Krispy Kreme.

Yeah, Krista Kreme doing their part. Or Anheuser-Busch, if you've gotten a vaccine by July 4th, they're offering a free beer. Nice. Really? Oh, beer, donut, and free ride, wherever you want. As long as you tell the lift driver, you're going to get your vaccine. There's a bunch of stuff locally, local businesses are doing a bunch of stuff here, too. I couldn't tell them to you, but it's similar things.

It's like, oh, we'll give you a tire change if you'd. Oh, that's cool. Or whatever. And one of the, a poll recently looked at why unvaccinated people are still hesitant to get vaccines. And at least a third of unvaccinated people are saying that it's because they're waiting for it to be fully FDA approved rather than just an emergency use authorization. Emergency approval. Sure. And regardless of whether or not they should be worried about that, it's, it makes sense that because it's complicated.

People don't understand how it works. But know that Pfizer just put in their application for approval and Moderna should be close behind. And they've got all the safety data and everything, and it's going to be approved. So, don't worry about that. Yeah, I wouldn't worry so much about that. Yeah, I think you're good to get it. The other thing is that we had a listener who said that I'd be dead within a week after getting it. Still here, buddy.

Still here. Still kicking it. I know he's listening. I think they were really just fucking for your job. I know he's listening because he always emails some shitty thing about, I don't know, whatever we're talking about. I love the fact that they keep listening to. I know. They love it.

I hate you guys. You're crazy. You're puppets of the left us. But boy, oh boy, don't. take away my subscription yeah i don't want to yeah don't let me not listen to your show anymore um anyway bobby fantastic uh stuff here as always uh now i heard tale a rumor that bobby has expanded his reach his empire his science coverage empire to include a new tictoch channel now i i will say this uh ticot has quickly become more usable for me than a service like uh youtube in terms of like hey i'm interested in

watching some dude build a work project or this guy's making stuff out of wood or this guy's doing science coverage or this guy's whatever there's so many goods cooking is another one tons of this woman's wondering why she doesn't suffocate in her car there's that stuff too but see youtube has all that crap too but you know this is just like i can go flip and flick past it and get right to bobby's channel about science so bobby where is it and why should they go what are you doing Yeah, so we just started. It's at All Around Sci. So at All Around SciI, and it's the same as our Twitter handle.

But we, yeah, I've always, I enjoy just giving quick, like, explainers about little things. And I'm always with the kids around the house doing stuff. And I'm like, oh, this is a fun little sciencey thing. So TikTok is perfect for, like, whip out my phone and explain it in under a minute on there. And then other people can see it too. and it works really well for visual things. But we did cool things. We made anti-bubbles.

We've made plasma in the microwave. And we'd learn about what causes those things to happen. So yeah, at all-around Psi is where you can see that. Follow or like or whatever you do on TikTok. There it is right there. Look at all that hair. Look at Bobby's massive hair. It's like he's one of the brothers gib.

Jeez, no kidding. He's a brother Gibb. Wow. All right. Well, Keep on staying alive or whatever the best song to use as a references. Bobby, it's always a pleasure. Of course, all around science, podcast, get that as well. Yeah.

And I just had Nikki, Nikki on our last episode. Cool. She's a great guest to have on. She's fantastic. Yeah. I'm your science correspondent. She's the DTNS science correspondent. We're going to have a science correspondent battle.

Let's do it. I'm fine with that. We should have a contest. I don't know what, but something. What should it be? Who's got the most accurate information? Bob, your Nikki, stay, come, be there live. I don't know how to get.

We'll figure it out. See you later, Bob. All right. I just call him Bob. Gotcha. Is that okay to call him Bob? I don't know. I've never heard him go by Bob.

You might hate that. It felt weird. I had a, uh, a boss whose name was James. And the look, he'd shoot customers when they would call him Jim or Jimmy. Yeah. and boy he did not like that he just severed the relationship no more sale no more deals that's right exactly now he goes by jolly though so oh that's weird happy pride month everybody oh right i forgot yeah you told me about this person before yes um a update on the murder hornets here bees millions of bees oh there we go there's just breaking news everybody oh man it's the hornets it's not the hornet it was never the hornet it was the bees bees that sting on carter's foot was just the beginning bobby bobby says bob Bob is fine. Oh, okay. Well, who calls you Bob at home? Like, does your mom call you Bob? Do you get, you get Bob's day? I don't know.

His secretary calls him Bob. She, every time he walks in, she goes, hi, Bob. Hi, Bob. And then everybody, everybody takes a drink. Boy, I am full of the jokes for the old today. The 60-year-olds who listen to the show are laughing their heads off right now. Man, you remember Bob Newhart? Well, then you got that joke for sure. He's still alive, you know? He's still kicking. That guy. Bob Newhart, he totally is, yeah. I think he's made a paper now, but he's living. He's alive. How old is he? Let's see here. He is, uh, 91, yeah. He's still waiting for that elf sequel. Yeah, he was great in that.

He's also, um, uh, I loved always hearing stories about him and his wife going on trips with, um, uh, I can't think his name all of a sudden. The community, he did die. Nick Don Rickles Why was I saying Nichols? Oh really? I was like they got it Yeah Don Rickles

Those two were like best friends And hung out everywhere And it was always just the funnest sounding Relationship I can't imagine how fun it would be To just hang out with Don Rickles In a social I agree

Social I agree dude I mean that guy That guy would show up at like you know I don't know Like You'd have like really big luminaries But like also like

mob crime bosses and stuff in an audience. Yeah. And you can just count on Rickles being... Hey, hockey puck. He was the best insult comic ever because you never felt bad about what he was saying about somebody.

Right. And he was, but he was still brutal that way. And also, if you haven't seen that documentary called the something biggest guy, I forgot the name. There's a whole documentary about him

when he was like in his 80s, just before he died that was so good. A hardest working man in comedy or something like that. And he's still like... Imagine if you search for a Rickles documentary. Yeah, you'll find it. Excellent documentary. Really good stuff.

Cool. Really good. All right. Let's get a little bit of news in. Well, we have a moment here. How about this? It's time for the news brought to you by. Yeah, so we're celebrating the birthdays of three musicians today.

Richard Butler, the lead singer of the psychedelic furs, Tim Rize Oxley, who is the main instrumentalist piano keyboardist for the band Keene, and Levi Stubbs, who was one of the lead vocalists for the Four Tops, but also was the voice of Audrey II in The Little Shop of Horrors movies, or movie, just the one movie. Feed me, Seymour. The remake, I should say. So we're going to be celebrating all three of them with some great covers that kind of connect all of these bands together. That is going to happen at some point today.

I've got a conference call that is taking place right when I normally do Coverville. So it'll take place right after that conference call. So just subscribe to Twitch.tv slash Coverville. You'll get notified. It's great. Click the little bell icon. It'll tell you when I'm going to be going live and or just follow me on. Twitter, all those things.

Easy, peasy, lemon squeezy. Lemon squeezy. Yeah, not Japanese. We learned that way. No, we don't say that. No, thank you, Army of the Dead for teaching us that lesson. For teaching us that, also that zombies can have babies. That's right, because we really wanted to know.

All right, check this out. Monkeys. Oh, it's always the monkeys. Monkeys. Not the band, but the little monkeys, the little primates. Wait, are they primates? Yes. Yes.

Monkeys are primates or primates? Right. Monkeys and apes, not the same thing, but all of them. All of them are primates. Right? Do I know this? This is where I get. Sam says 100%.

I believe her. She's smart. Well, but not to us. Oh, that's to a other thing. She's saying 100% to Diana. Yes, primates. Why does it sound wrong? Something sounds wrong about it.

Yes, no, monkeys and apes are all primates, but monkeys and apes aren't interchangeable. Right. gorillas and baboons and chimpanzees not all part of the same. Right. I guess we're primates as well. Oh, yeah, the chat's screaming. We are primates. Some of us a little bit closer to...

I feel very close to one right now. I feel very... I do too. All right, so we're all apes. Great. That's awesome. Well, check this out. This thing about the monkeys then.

The monkeys are always the trouble. They throw the poo at you and they, you know, whatever. They're bad. Anyway, they stole a coronavirus blood sample, a whole bunch of. of them after attacking a lab assistant tried to escape. Oh, no. I know. Oh, my God.

It's horrendous. A gang of monkeys. Is that what they're called when they're a group of them? I thought a troop. I thought a collective of monkeys was a troop. Troop of monkeys. Yeah. Maybe it depends on the type of monkeys.

Well, and these are angry, pissed stealing ones, so a gang is probably... And specifically, what kind of monkeys are they? Are they... These are said... Let's see. Where does it say? It doesn't say. It just says monkeys.

It doesn't say. It just says monkeys. Yeah, it doesn't say. It could be the ones that stop Indiana Jones from eating a date. Or no, the one that, yeah, he died because he ate a date. Poison date. Bad dates. Indies. Anyway, gang of monkeys reportedly attacked a lab worker and ran off with the coronavirus blood samples that were at the lab.

The animals are said to have targeted the technician as he walked through the campus of Merritt Medical College in Mirate in Uttar-Presh State. This is in India. Oh, this happened on Friday. The group managed to the group, they call them now. A group. That's not. That's not that either, is it? A barrel or a troop is the collective of monkeys.

So really you can say, oh, that's a, watch out, there's a barrel of monkeys coming. Whoa, really? Is that true? Yeah. Don't touch his funny bone. No, that's a different thing. Pretty sneaky, sis. No, that's a whole different one.

I know this is completely off the radar here, but I just know this. You sink my battle. No, that's not it either. Molly Fenton in the chat, I just wanted to mention this. Says busy cleaning because I'm reuniting with my older sister tomorrow. That sounds awesome. Oh, very cool. Yeah.

I don't know anything about that story except congratulations. It must be good. That's very cool. Anyway, video shows, oh, here it is. They managed to snatch the blood samples of four patients who have tested positive of the coronavirus or COVID-19 before fleeing. Video footage shared on Twitter shows a monkey sitting in a tree with what appears to be one of the stolen kits. The animal can be seen dropping something, which looks to be a. a white disposable glove to the ground

before chewing on another. Yeah, they're definitely monkeys. Let's see. It's not known whether the monkeys have spoiled or spilled, rather, the blood samples. However, people living near the campus fear the virus could spread to nearby residential areas because of these damned monkeys.

Top official of the college said, these damn dirty apes. These damn dirty apes. That's right. These damn dirty primates. These damn dirty primates. Yes, exactly. I'm trying to look at the video to see what kind of... Yeah, I can't. I was going to do the same. I can't tell.

Let's see. Let's pull that up here. What's a colibus? No, colibus has the weird-looking nose, right? Oh, yeah, and they look pissed all the time. You notice that? Yeah, they're white. They're black and white with the, uh, they look like they have a toupee.

Yeah, here they are. These are like the ones in Japan where they're up on the rails and stuff, right? Yeah. Okay, they're using the tree. Let's take a look at that. Eating a vial of Corona. with macaques maybe they are macaques could be a macaque

we just wanted to say macaque I mean I've been waiting all morning finally finally found an excuse yeah actually that does look like a macaque okay well it looks like macaque got it looks like macaque macaque stole macarona

it looks like who got it it looks like macaque Anyway, the monkeys, they do say they don't think anything would spread. You'd have to come in contact with it. It's not airborne. By the way, a group of macaques is called a sausage fest. Ah.

So podcasting, then. Podcasting. It's called a podcast. It's called a podcast. A group of macaques. Excellent. Well done. All right.

What time we have? We've got five minutes. Let's do this one. Dallas Mall was evacuated after a man slamming his skateboard. against something was mistaken for an active shooter this happened in Dallas now it's unfortunate that

you know we get enough active shootings that this isn't all that surprising right you hear something like that and you go running but I've got a video here of this it's pretty scary oh well it's like yeah he actually all right well we'll talk about this but he it wasn't like

accidental like oh no I was just I'm sorry I was just slamming my skateboard against the floor because Claire was out of purple studs. I mean, it was, he was making hand gestures mimicking a shooting. So he was trying to do this. That was really specific about Clares and Purple Studs. I'm a little concerned about your mall, your last mall trip.

Wow. Yeah, he, uh, he, so, okay, so chaos broke out of this mall. Reports of an active shooter turned out to be a false alarm. Terrified shoppers could be seen sprinting as you just saw on the video. Police officers closed. in on the food court where the gunshots were reportedly coming from. Fortunately, there was no shooter. He says a quote,

mentally disturbed man had to banged a skateboard, skateboard on the floor and made hand gestures mimicking shooting. So he was acting like he was shooting, which is a real stinker. There's a lot of people who are shooting video of them running out of the mall, by the way. Yeah. Everybody out of, everyone had a phone. If you ever needed proof that if poop went down,

we'd start acting like the tribes in, The Walking Dead. You just basically have to watch video of people pushing each other out of the way to get out of a mall when they think there's an active shooter. Basically. There's a poor guy who's like on a who's got a walker and people are like running by him and not like, hey, can I help you get out a little easier, sir? And we're left with just a lot of good B-roll if you need it for your zombie moving. That's right. Exactly.

Good luck, everyone. all right we're going to take a break when we come back my sister will be here we have an amazing follow-up uh oh good cool we'll talk about that before we get to the meet of her visit and uh what else other stuff so stick around all right brian we should play a song we should totally play a song and i'm really you know i say i'm always saying i'm really excited to play something for you and i'm usually i usually am it's not a lie i'm almost always excited to play what i'm going to be playing for you and i definitely tell you when i'm not excited about it but i'm excited to play this one for you. Melissa from

Atterge. What's that? I said Etheridge, but I don't know why I said Ethridge. Continue on. She's a VR person reached out to me with this one. This is great stuff. This is a Toronto band called Phantom Atlantic. They've got a brand new EP that's coming out called Your View of a Former Me. And if you like, like, if Foo Fighters and Radiohead had a baby, this is what would sound like. These guys are awesome. This is the first song

they've released from your view of a former me. Here is Man Like You. You've not been waiting just a cave. balanced on one confession only want to bet you know

I mean a man like you In sickness and hell I peace with myself A man like you In love you again With nothing to mend What have you heard about me? Breathe again. Shed any avoness and memory left.

Free over top of teeth and false regrets. You've got our new conditions, not on fools, contritions. do I need a man, a man like you. Just shift to shine out. In sickness and hell, I piece with myself. A man like you. And love you again with nothing to men.

What have you heard? When you are? When you are high alone? Nothing to keep afloat does this end to me. And when it's all the guess, When you'd been for less, no, I won't live. All my life started again Oh my life started again

love with us letting Oh my life Oh my life Started again Oh my life Again I said Oh my life

Starting again Again Hey guys. Let's talk about rise. Well, you know, rising from, not your grave, but you're, you know, your morning routine, getting out of bed. Sleep is as necessary as water, food, air. A lot of myths and misunderstandings about that stuff, though. Sometimes you feel groggy and you don't know why. Well, that's normal, turns out. A little tired in the afternoon, that's also normal. But maybe what's not normal is being tired all day.

It's probably an indication that you've got a lot of sleep debt going on and you need to pay it back. So, become more productive and a morning person. Oh, and by the way, don't worry. You don't have to stop using your phone before bed or, you know, all that stuff. You don't even have to buy a new mattress or take supplements or special blankets or any of that. rise is an app and it uses a scientific fact-based approach to help you get as much sleep as your body actually needs it's built around two principles of sleep

that researchers agree are most effective in terms of how we perform and feel and all of that that's sleep debt and circadian rhythm uh rise works by pulling together historical data from your phone or apps your wearables like your Fitbit and that kind of thing and uh helps track your sleep figures out what your debt is almost right away you can find out because it uses some of the historical data that you've already got on your phone.

Most of you do. And you'll find out right away at the very first day of the trial, kind of where you're at. Every morning, Rise tells you how long you should be groggy, your best times to focus during the day, and then when you should be winding down to get better sleep at night. And it's great. I struggle all the time with good sleep. You guys have heard me talk about it on the show before.

And this app is actually helping me. I was surprised. I mean, you know, I don't know, you never know until you try something, and I tried this one, and I'm surprised how much it's helping me. It helped me right away, and their email stuff is awesome as well. I mentioned that before. Anyway, RISE helps you realize your full potential with real results, real productivity, real performance, real well-being. And keep this in mind, 80% of RISE users fill the benefits within, like, the first five days.

That's within the seven-day trial. So here's what I want you to do. Go to RISEcience.com slash TMS, download that app. It's free for seven days. It's the Rise app, R-I-S-E. And whether you want to become a morning person or, I don't know, just be more refreshed or less exhausted during the day, better productivity, energy, whatever it is. Rise is the power behind your next best day. So, that's RiseS.com slash TMS.

Try that Rise app for seven days for free. I prefer a real Mexican. restaurant and then not Taco Bell because Taco Bell does not have the real authentic Mexican food like an actual Mexican restaurant does. You're just a noob. Up down, up down. This is the morning stream. All right, we're back, everybody.

We're back. One more time, that band is Phantom Atlantic, a song called Men Like You from their upcoming EP, Your View of a Former Me. Nice. Another fine selection from the music catalog of Brian Ibitt. Darn right. All right.

We're going to get Wendy in here, and we're going to have some good fun. Here we go. I mean, I don't know how fun it'll be. It'll be informative. It'll be informative. It's fun. Yeah.

Hello. Oh, hi. Hello, Wendy. Hey, without this, where is it? I can't do, I can't go forward without this. Everyone knows it's Wendy. Hey, look who it is. It's Wendy, my sister with an eye.

She's also a licensed therapist, a very serious person. I've seen her. She's got two of them. Right there in the middle of her face. Totally does. Two eyes. Three eyes. So one in her name, two on her face.

Very serious. Yeah. It's good to have you back with us. How was your week? You're doing all right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. Maybe. Okay. All right. That sounds, like you want the real answer. Do you want the, like, I mean,

I don't know if you've probably been busy. You've probably had a lot going on. One would assume, you know, you got. Oh, my gosh. It's the end of the craziest school year and the history of school years

and everyone's back to doing all the things, but all masked and spread out. So it's like twice as hard. But there's, I mean, it's, I forgot how hard May is. Yeah.

May is hard. Yeah. But we're getting to the end. Allie graduates on next Tuesday. That's crazy. That's crazy. How is that even? I don't even know how that's a thing.

How is it possible your daughter's old enough to graduate? That's nuts. Yeah. No, it's a thing. And then, yeah, we're, I don't know. They don't ask me anymore. I don't ask. We went to Dad's Grave the other day and went on Sunday to beat the rush Monday.

Mom went Monday, I guess, with Misha. But here's the funny thing. So Van has these dinosaurs he loves, little plastic dinosaurs. Loves them. Huge, just obsessed with dinosaurs right now. And we get there, and he decides he wants to just set these two little dinosaurs, a brachiosaurus and I don't know what, Raptor or something on dad's grave, right where you'd normally put the flower arrangement,

he put them there just sort of facing outward and then left them there and acted like, he's just going to leave him there. So we're like, oh, that's kind of cute. he's you know his great grandpops who never got to me you'll leave him a little thing and so we left these there next day mom and wendy or mom and misha go and you know texted everybody say oh yeah it was great we did this and that and i said um are there still are there two little dinosaurs there misha's like yeah what what's that about so those are vans and so she goes oh no did he want him back like we forgot him or whatever and oh no no they're like a little donation or

whatever but it was just like a nice little uh i don't know he doesn't know what he's doing he's two but it was just a nice thing to to do so anyway it was nice we don't go there very often because dad didn't really want us to but we did this time uh anyway hey uh maybe he's mine nobody ever asks no one ever asked yeah when i go when i'm dead don't i don't care you don't have to come visit my grave i don't care really doesn't bother me and when i say you i mean everyone not just wendy Yeah, we're going to have nerdtaculars around the tree where your ashes are. That's a great idea. Let's do that.

I'm in. Perfect. And that tree be in New Zealand, because that's where I'd like to go. So check this out. This is pretty cool. Before we get started today, I got a little follow-up from last week. And I'll start it by, well, I'm going to play the file first. So some audio connected with this.

And it's about a minute and a half long. So it's just worth listening to. So just know there's a follow-up from last week. Here's the audio. BBC Radio Cambridge Call us on 08,085-95-96 Or text us on A1-33

Starting your message with the word cam Welcome to Chris South's great outdoors With me, Richard Spaners Ready, filling in for Chris It's the show all about Cambridge's fields, farms, wildlife, conservation and gardens I'm sitting in for Chris South, who's working from home And I guess I am still your in-studio substitute presenter until that changes or they find someone better because Chris can't be in studio to ride this log flume how's your week been everybody have you been forgiving yourself

that's what I've been working on this week do you ever torture yourself about small embarrassing things do they leap out and haunt your mind so I've been that happens to me and I've been listening to an American podcast with a therapist called Wendy Dunford where they disgust these things that sometimes you get that nagging voice deep inside your gut that just reminds you of all the embarrassing and stupid things you've done. And we all know that moment where you're having a perfectly fine day, you're happy, maybe even feeling proud of yourself. And the voice says, yeah, but remember that time you said that stupid thing and everybody heard. You're stupid and annoying. You should never leave the house or go on radio spanners.

But that voice, for a lot of people, is just a constant reminder of, every time you felt embarrassed or let yourself down. And it's like this constant low-lights reel playing in your head. And it can give you a really negative view of yourself. I think that's why it's a problem. Because there doesn't seem to be the opposite voice, the voice that randomly reminds you of the things that were good, you know, that says,

Hey, Spanus, remember that time you were an absolute delight. All right, that's basically it. There's a lot more to it. In the world. Isn't that great? That's awesome. Yeah. That was our emailer from last week talking about the...

If he had told me it was British, I would have done it very differently. Oh, I see. You know, I want to thank him for that. So I'm going to have to text him at 35, 65, 95, 85, 85, 85, 85, 85, 85, 25, 85, that goes on forever, that number. It never ends. Oh, I want him to say my name and just let me record it on all my things. Wendy Dunford. A woman named Wendy Dunford.

Well, anyway, I just thought that was... American. That's been a while. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But I thought that was awesome. It was just an awesome, awesome follow-up. And he also sent this, so I want to read this real quick. He says, normally I just scrunch that little part of me down into a tight ball and fight it while I'm talking on the air. But recently, I've been using Wendy's method and it's really helping me. I know exactly where in my body that voice is.

It's right at the top of my skull. And I've given it a name. I thank Derek and assure him that I'm on top of the issues that he's, identifying and helping me learn and I will learn and improve. I'm not sure that sounds entirely same, but it is having its effect. So there you go. I love it. Derek. Derek. Yeah. Isn't that great though? Jelly beans out of a martini glass. Yeah. So it was really awesome thing to get. I'm really glad he did that. Listen, from now on, I only accept feedback like that. I need a recording of a podcast and you've got to name your part, Derek. Yeah. And he's obviously, you know, he's a pro. He sounded great.

Like, it's an actual, actual BBC product. So, so well done. And, uh, and thanks for the follow up because that, that means a lot. We really appreciate it. All right. Let's get to this week's topic here. This is from Anonymous. Okay.

That's the name we're going to give them. Uh, and it goes like this. My mom has been going through a terrible time since my father passed away in 2020 from cancer. She has been fighting with deep depression and other issues since. Some days are better than others. And I have done everything I know, uh, help her, but I am at a loss how to proceed when the days get really rough and settle in. I've suggested previously to her to get recommendations from a doctor for a counselor or

therapist that would be a neutral party to help her more than I am capable of doing myself. She had opportunities to talk to one or so since the time has, but since that time has happened, or since the time has happened, I'm not sure what that means, but ultimately shied away from it. That brings us to the current state of things. She heard about Wendy's real steps and she signed up and has been in the program for a while, but she just told me that she has dropped out and was afraid to come back before the end of the session, citing not feeling that she can really open up. She also, or sorry, she was also worried that people were tired of hearing about her sadness regarding dad. Yet she spoke a lot about a lot of positive things. She was taken away

from the program previous, I'm sorry, yet she spoke of a lot of positive things she has taken away from the program previously. I just worried that she had become discouraged. I don't know how to help her. While I'm coping with my own depression and grief regarding my dad's loss, medical issues, and work stress, I need to be the strong one for her and gladly do so for her. She needs, sorry, she needs, her needs,

let's see, she needs it the most, rather. And I feel like I'm failing her by not being able to help more than I have. My question, I guess, is this. Is there anything I should be doing more? Love, encouragement, support, constant check-in, spending as much time as I can, despite having to be super careful during the pandemic, listening, being there when she needs me, I've done my best. Mom doesn't deserve the pain she's feeling.

And I think she's just being way too hard on herself, considering the trauma of so much that's happened in the last year, to suddenly lose someone you love for decades like she has. While I hurt deeply to lose a parent, I can't imagine the pain that she's in. I can get more into detail if Wendy has an additional questions, let me know. Thanks for listening. And any guidance is appreciated. anonymously yours, stay safe or stay safe. So we haven't really addressed, like, directly, this isn't a COVID-related death,

but somebody losing somebody during this time, whether from the stupid disease or from something else is a big deal, man. Like, it just feels like this is one of the worst times to have their experience that kind of loss. And then you got people around the person who's experiencing. the most loss. We were just like out of ideas. They don't know what else to do to help or to whatever. We probably all felt this a little bit in some way. Um, you know, we, we here felt that way about my sister-in-law's cancer, although great news on that front. She appears to be, um, cancer free after. Oh, very good. Twelve rounds of chemo, surgery twice. A whole bunch of stuff. I mean,

she had stage four colon cancer in this started. And now she appears to be free of it. So, so that's awesome. medical science well done and if she'd listen to her mother she'd probably be eaten leaves and not living anyway that's a little jab at my mother-in-law anyway so the point is yeah so that was you know not the same kind of grief we didn't lose her but it was this struggle of like what can we do what else can we do what are you what are we supposed to do so what do you want to what do you what do you want to do with anonymous here yeah i think first of all i just to get in the mood for this today I listened to the most recent episode of This American Life was about grief. I didn't plan it.

It just happened. But it's a great listen because there's just so many ways we experience grief and everyone's so different. And they had a couple different stories. But it started with Rob Delaney, you know, the comedian who did catastrophes, you know, like a – Anyway, he lost his story. three-year-old son to cancer and just he's so blunt and open how he talks about it and it's really pretty powerful and he gets to this point in that thing is really highlights what happens sometimes with grief is that you know in his case to have a child die or you know the moments

after with the child's body when the child has passed and what that's like you know you can only talk to a few people about that in the world. And to find these parents who had been there before him and he saw them, he said, I saw them eating grapes and sitting down and having a drink that, like, I can do that one day, like this hope of progress, right? Just how devastating this whole thing was. Anyway, it's really powerful episode. It's called, by the way, it's called Good Grief.

And it's... Good grief. That's what it's called. And that the very last one is about George Floyd. And here in Minneapolis and just a woman's, how she's sort of taken care of people and their grief at the site, the memorial. Anyway, it's really good. So check that out.

So anyway, it's got me thinking about that idea. And, you know, you can lose the same person, but the same relationship isn't lost. So here's this person whose father dies. She loses a father. Is it a she? Sorry, I just said that. I don't know. Actually, I guess I don't know.

They lost their father and the mother lost a spouse, right? So same person has passed away, but two very different relationships, two different histories, two different roles, two different needs, all the things. And so as much as we can, you know, bond over losing the same person, sometimes it makes it even more difficult because the role that person played is so different. But we have a thing happening here, which is the caller or the e-mailer is not maybe giving enough attention to their own grief and overly focused on helping mother grieve. And I think we maybe need to start with the definition of what grieving actually is, right? That's a good idea because, you know, having lost our own father during a time where, like, I've never dealt with it right. I still don't know exactly if I've grieved for dad or not. I really don't know.

Like the proper, whatever the proper healthy thing to do is, pretty sure I haven't done that entirely. So let's talk about that. And a lot just comes naturally, right? So here's, so if we kind of go historical here, back in the day, your parlor was where the dead would rest and everyone would come and see them and you would have, which I think is the origin of like open casket things, which I don't love. P.S. Anyway, but this idea of like, it's in your home, everyone comes and pays a respect. So you have the historical, at least in this country, of mourning and then, you know, other cultures have

their various rituals and things they do when it comes to mourning, right? And you think of how that has gotten sort of cleaned up over the time. They promoted living rooms to take the place of those parlors. That was a real advertising. That's why I'm still called living rooms. is because no longer do the dead rest there. Only the living come and watch TV. And so, you know, there's a history of us being really separate or being really connected to death, seeing it much more frequently. And some of that would elicit the grieving that maybe would happen naturally

because it just comes, right? But we have cleaned it up so much and sort of we pay people to take care of all the things that we can't. And, you know, maybe we still cry and grieve and dress and black and do the things that we do. But no one says what to do after that. And if you look at what the culture says is like, oh, you get like a week off work.

And that's, then after that, you're back to normal, be back to pro, you know, being productive or whatever. So what is the model? The model is do it quick, do it privately, don't overdo it. And then just hope that goes well. And so that most of us take away from our backgrounds, our cultural upbringings is like there's an appropriate, level of sad and it should only last so long and, you know, et cetera. And then we are all

individuals who maybe can access that grief pretty easily and move through it and then others that, you know, not so much. So it's tricky. And I don't know. Have you guys ever been to a class on grieving? No. No. Do I think it should be along with financial planning for teenagers? Yes. I think there should be a grief class, financial, and like actual sex ed. You know, those things should all be in school. So anyway, you've got like just no, nobody's really good at this. And if they are, they probably have modeled that to people and are helpful and, you know, can talk you through it.

But it's because it's a different relationship for each person and it's, and it is not shown to us so we don't know what to do. So what most of us do because to survive, right, is kind of shove it down and go on with things and then suddenly see duct tape holding something together. Scott, you'll recognize this. And then you'll burst into tears because someone else is holding something together with duct tape like my dad always did. You know, so you'll have these breakthrough moments where it will just sort of surface. So most of us, that's just what we do. And it can be stuck. It happened to me the other day because when I went, I had to pull the stinger. out of Carter's foot. She got stung by a B. You know, and she's just turned 24. It's not like she's a kid. But I had this flashback of dad pulling a sliver out of Taylor's

foot when she was like three. And it was like vivid and weird and like that's all I can think about while I'm trying to get this pulsating freaking noxious thing out of her foot. And it was just a weird moment. I didn't even tell them about it. But it was like, oh my gosh, it's like dad

taking that sliver out of Taylor's foot. and Taylor wouldn't look at him for like two weeks because she thought he was like the pain bringer right because that's what happens I can I can recall many slivers being taken out of my feet by dad yeah oh yeah he was good I often thought he was a doctor I did when I was junker like he was secretly a doctor

which he definitely wasn't but he was very good he could have been uh anyway so so yeah that idea of like it will show up um and and I think just like our actually the episode last week of like you know this guy brought up these pain things that that pop in his head and memories. This is how our systems are built. They're parts of us that will remind us. So it will jump out in the strangest of places. Sometimes it's really obvious. Like, oh, there's a sliver situation. This feels familiar. And, you know, so you can kind of tie it together. Other times, not so much. But it's as if the system has like

it's a self-regulating button or something that it just is like, hey, there's more in here. there is something to process I need a little attention and the more we suppress that the more that doesn't have a chance to to process through in sort of a normal way the more we create sort of a toxic situation it leaks out in other places so sometimes that can come out as anger or isolation you know depression is an example there's there's bereavement and there's depression bereavement is the form of depression that every one of us could should have it's natural it's important it's the slowing down it's the sign that you have lost and there's grief to be to be had right depression is a very similar chemical response but it's ongoing and sometimes is not an obvious

loss connected to it but often oppression is related to loss right so so there's this natural thing. Well, what happens is if we don't ever deal or we don't ever grieve or we don't know what to do, and I can get into what to do in a second here, but we don't know what to do, we'll just survive. And in that survival state, you know, sometimes some of the symptoms that you're not grieving properly show up like depression when you have never had depression before or increased anxiety when you've never had that before. So there's, you know, things that will show up that say, hey, this system isn't getting what it's needing. So it sounds like this. emailer is watching her mother not progress through grief and is just really worried, right,

is seeing just that she's in so much pain and that all of those things. And yes, the normalization that her spouse dies and then the whole world has a pandemic. I mean, you cannot imagine how difficult, right, that would be. And no one, she hasn't lost her husband previously to know that it's easier or not in a pandemic, right? You just don't, you know, it's hard to calculate the effects of all these different factors that have played a role. And just maybe in getting help or getting outside or other things that might naturally help that grieving process happen. So I just want to say a couple quick things about complicated grief and like sort of extended bereavement, right? Like everyone's different.

Everyone has different timing. An interesting rule of thumb. I don't know if it's not for everyone exactly. but about a year is about the amount of time having every holiday pass having you know lots of moments and memories you know like say they die in july and then christmas comes you you have a christmas without that person um that now you're anticipating you didn't participate maybe you did but like you you got to get through the first of everything for that first year and then after that to sort of see how things are um people who have

are uncomfortable with others pain or sorrow or don't know what to do want us to get over it quicker so they may get more concerned before it's time to get concerned so really having some a professional kind of help you assess that if you're if you're really feeling stuck or not sure you're doing it right i think is is your best bet um but also just know it it it does take time. Now, if you are not doing anything proactive to honor that person or to grieve or whatever you need to do, then, you know, maybe we can see why you're stuck. Whereas most people, there is a natural flow to this. What we're really bad is at grieving is grieving all the little things. We tend to actually be better about grieving death overall because

it doesn't allow for much vacillation. You know, you sort of come to accept. it a little sooner. Sure. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who years and years and years after someone has died have still struggling to accept it. So we're kind of all over the map. I hope that covers everybody. But so let's go through the active process of grieving.

So I'd love to hear from both of you. And you can share this about a positive thing where you had to grieve it. Like maybe you move to a new place and you have to grieve the loss of the old place or friends or, you know, you move from college onto another place. Like there's lots of versions. of grief that happen in periods of life. So you don't have to pick a death if you don't want to. But give me a sense of what you guys think grieving,

a healthy grieving process looks like. Well, I'll jump in, but please do I am going to go with death. Okay. I will stay on the board, Bob, and go with death for 100. No, watching my stepdad and his health deteriorate over the course of a a couple months or a few months where it was the alcohol and the cigarettes and basically the cancer that came from the cigarettes kind of ravage his body to the point where at the very end for like the last couple weeks when he wasn't able to talk or communicate I kind of began grieving his loss then as opposed to after he passed even though we knew was coming. It was like a, all right, I'm preparing myself. I know he's, you know, going to be gone.

And it still gave me an opportunity to say goodbye to him over those couple weeks. So when he did eventually pass, it almost felt like more of a, it definitely felt like a relief knowing that he wasn't suffering anymore and knowing that I did get the opportunity to say goodbye to him and kind of get good closure on that. that. And then we just, we kind of, you know, remembered him with, um, a memorial event and all his friends came. And instead of it being like a, a funeral, it was more of like a, um, a remembrance of who he was and, you know, some great photos and memories and things like that. Yeah. So that felt, that felt like the healthy way of doing it. Yes, awake. I guess it's just called awake. Yeah, they call those awake. Yeah. No, but that does sound healthy. Um, I, I have an example of this not healthy, though, because I don't think I know how to do it right.

I think I'm bad at this. I think it's like a thing I'm not good at. But I remember, so when dad died, I remember going through all the motions, like rush to the hospital, deal with all of the immediate aftermath, be there for mom, try to figure out what we're going to do next. All right, we got to talk funeral. You know, you have to do all that. And then the funeral came and then we had to do the funeral and we had to do whatever. that meant and and and and then be there and then move on to the next thing and then okay what's after that that sort of thing i remember going through all of that and thinking well at least

i'm going through all this but i don't think i'm really like i really never took a minute to go what does this mean like what does this loss mean so instead over the last 20 years um i just let it creep into other stuff like just think about dad randomly or, you know, there was a, there was this weird experience where Nick was like two and a half years old and, and he was describing his grandpa and how he was like sitting on the edge of his bed and weird stuff like that. And I remember thinking, oh, that's weird. Like, I just remember all these things just piling up over time. And to this day, I'm not sure I've ever really sort of like dealt with it. Because it seemed way too soon, the shock as it was,

only 63, 64. It happened. Suddenly, it was a massive heart attack, kind of out of nowhere. I have certain things connected to it. Like I will, you know, it's, I always remember that a week before he passed, he saw gone in 60 seconds with mom. And the night before he passed, he saw chicken run. That's, these are weird things that I associate with all around it. but it was that suddenness and I still have this visual of rushing up to the house. And by the time I got there, mom was in a couch being consoled by some neighbors and some people. And then I see his gurney just whipping past me, all covered in stuff with the thing on his face and everything. And I remember that so vividly, it's like real to me now.

Like just I can feel everything about that feeling. And I don't think I've ever really faced it. I think I was, I think at the whole time I was just like, okay, moving, moving, moving, moving. And I think that later in my life, you know, in the early aughts, it sort of manifested itself in the form of some anxiety I'd never experienced before, didn't know where it was coming from, a sort of, I don't know, bad relationship with mortality in general. You know, I have to say that over time, that's gotten easier for me and I give less poops these days about a lot of things. but there was a time there where, you know, anything that it felt like you even remotely like chest pain or a little bit of arm pain or a feeling of dizziness, you just immediately go, oh, it's that.

It's that thing that I did and I'm trying to ignore it. And so let's just ignore it and get past it and that sort of stuff, right? So I don't think I ever did is what I'm saying. I don't think I have a good answer to your question. I don't think I've ever properly grieved. I do remember witnessing what I thought was a healthy grieving, and that was at his funeral, my then six-year-old daughter, Taylor, who was now 27, and as a kid of her own, she was still pretty young, but six. At six, you kind of know, you kind of know and you don't know at the same time. But her siblings are too young to really know what was going on, three and two months old for Nick. But she just started kind of wailing and crying at the funeral. and I remember thinking at the time, that's probably what I should be doing. I should probably be just completely losing it and let it out, right?

And I never did. So anyway, that's my awesome answer. That's my unhealthy response to death and mourning. Well, and I don't want to take away from your story that you're not having healthfully grieved, but I'm going to give you some definitions that might shift your perspective a little bit. But I do agree. If we could all wail like Taylor at a funeral, we would all feel better. It's just that kids can do things adults can't, right?

Right. They just let out those emotions just like jump them out. Yeah. Yeah. Which is why when I watch cultures where there's the following of the casket and the wailing and throwing yourself on the body, I'm always jealous. Right. Yeah. Oh, they're so lucky.

Yeah. Because out of context, out of context, you see that and go, oh, that's weird. and like too much like what are you doing but in the in that space like if you are those people I imagine there's real catharsis in that in that even if it is mostly culturally you know not forced on people but you know what I mean like it's yeah like it's it's at least an option right whereas it's not such an option so okay and and this I hope is helpful for the emailer because as she's describing her her mother his mother or its mother that you know like just of course devastated, sad, struggling to feel good again, you know, all of those things.

I don't, there's nothing in there that has me really worried other than it's just really hard. And it's been a little over a year. I feel like pandemic year counts as like no years as well as 20 years. I don't know how, but it does. Anyway, and so I don't hear anything that's majorly concerned. And so I want to give some definitions, I think, that might be helpful. And then, and Scott, similarly, like, I think you probably have processed slower.

And, you know, you're saying it's all wrong. And I don't know. Let me just read some things. You guys get to decide. Okay. So I just want to give a definition of healthy grief. It's often referred to as normal or functional grief. Yeah.

And there's a reason because it has a function. And the function is to allow survivors to identify, acknowledge, feel, and integrate what they love, but are now without. So that's the purpose of the funeral. That's the purpose of a eulogy, of the writing down your feelings or talking to others, sharing the stories, right? Is you're trying to integrate, acknowledge, identify, and feel all this stuff about this person that you love that is no longer there. Yeah. right that does not happen quickly and easily and there are some reactions to it so i'm going to read what are the quote-unquote normal reactions associated with grief so some of these are going to

sound familiar and hopefully help people feel like they're still within the realm of okay um and then we can talk about what to do if you're feeling like you're not in that okay space um so it's really normal behaviorally to detach from family and friends to have a change in your interest in activities to decrease your socializing to have the loss of joy or an hedonia to withdraw and be less productive be unable to sit still to see or hear the voice of the deceased struggle to think clearly to treasure objects of the deceased to find yourself sighing a lot anger general irritability loneliness lack of concentration so this is more the brain stuff lack of concentration It's difficult to make decisions, lack of focus, short-term memory problems, disbelief, excessive worry, feeling overwhelmed.

All very, very normal. Numness, apathy, fear, mood swings. You notice as I'm reading this, you're thinking of someone you love is grieving and they're acting this way. It's really hard for you to watch, right? Right. But we're still within the very normal range of an emotional psychological reaction to grief. Okay. Also, disbelief, outbursts that are like grief bursts, guilt, resentment, anger, difficulty falling asleep, making up really early in the morning, increase, decrease in appetite, fatigue and lack of energy, moving slower, dry mouth, irregular heartbeats and palpitations, restlessness.

Okay. And then we get to like, you know, there's the spiritual part, maybe lack of meaning or questioning faith or blaming God or wanting to die. All very, very normal. And so here's what you need to do. And this is the paradox of grief. This is why grief is so hard for us. And I think why you don't get taught it is because no one knows what they're doing. And even people who know how this is supposed to work themselves struggle to know what to do. So when dad died, the first person I wanted to talk to was none of you. I wanted to talk to Michelle Dair. Do you remember her? Oh, yeah. Because her dad died when she was 17. I was 23, 24.

My dad died. And I had another friend whose mom died when she was 12. And those two are the only two people I wanted to talk to you. I saw her, by the way, I saw Crosby Stills and Nash with her the week before her dad died. Oh, wow. That's a weird. That's a weird thing to remember. Full circle.

Yeah. Anyway, and so when I talked to her, she had, you know, years had passed and she, you know, she was older than me anyway. So I'd been a while. And I just went out her with like, I've had all the stages of grief already. She's like, just smiled and sure. And just was comforting. and nice and she didn't fix anything she didn't she just let me

feel whatever I was feeling and there's the power and someone who's been there and knows how to grieve is they don't need you to do it differently so they're comfortable that's that is what's amazing right and that's why it's a gift and that's why you seek those people out that's why

Robin Delaney was saying I just needed to be around parents who got this I didn't have to explain everything right or you could just see that they survived it right so there's a lot of that mourning with others that is just so crucial for us to helpfully mourn okay so we have a bunch of things that have to happen during grief we have to acknowledge the reality of the death that comes at some point it doesn't always come quickly you have to feel the pain here's that paradox again

in order to heal you have to feel it um the change it there's change in relationships you know from the from the person to a memory from physical to a memory that has to change and And then a lot of it is adjusting your self-identity. So if you think of, you know, you lose a partner and so much of your identity has been wrapped up in your partnership. So that's, that's an extra challenge there. Okay. So when it's not grieving, okay, let me give you this quote because I think it's helpful.

This is by Doug Manning. I don't even know who that is, but I like the quote. Grieving is as natural as crying when you are hurt, sleeping when you are tired, eating when you are hungry or sneezing when your nose itches. It's nature's way of healing a broken heart. Don't let anyone take your grief away from you. You deserve it and you must have it. If you have major surgery

no one would pressure you to run a marathon the next week. Grief is a major wound. It does not heal overnight. And I think we're running into this a little bit with the emailer wanting mom to be okay so badly that maybe there needs to be some more space for her to grieve.

And maybe she needs help to do that and that's your concern and that's great but it it doesn't it doesn't fix the thing she'll have to on her own and you can encourage her but on her own if she feels like maybe talking to someone would help her do that but your other choice is to be present and let this take the time that it takes so let me just quickly talk about unhealthy grief so you can also see where, like, where the problems might be. Okay. And maybe she didn't write about them or I miss them.

So unhealthy grief prolongs suffering and interrupts normal activities. So this is Scott, how we know you had some healthy grief. You would not have kept a job, raised a family, lived your life for the last 20 years. Yeah. Doesn't mean maybe there was more you could have done. But, you know, like your life is still being lived to pretty much its fullest. And that's one sign that unhealthy grief has happened. is where you're sort of stuck frozen words people will use are unhealthy unresolved complicated

pathological you know all those scary words and the main reasons people fail to grieve is it just the inability to tolerate the pain of grief because it's incredibly painful and so to avoid that um um the other reason might be the person has an excessive need to maintain interaction with the person who's died that can really be challenging enough obviously really common with partners. And then guilt is another reason. People fail to grieve. Maybe the relationship with the person who has died

brings up guilt. And so they don't know how to handle that thing, right? That's when you definitely need somebody to help you with that. Sure. All right. So we've got all sorts of reasons you can imagine for failing to grieve. One just quick one is maybe there's a belief that grieving, equals weakness, right?

Or that if you start crying, it'll never stop. That's a really common one. Or that letting go of the pain equals letting go of the loved one. So there may be all these complicated reasons that this mother is not able to move forward in any way or maybe that this is just her timing. I don't, I don't know. Okay. So let's just.

Let me just share a couple of, well, delayed grief. Let me mention this really quick. So delayed grief is sort of you push aside the feelings during the period of where mourning would have happened and then they erupt later and can be in all sorts of forms, right? So maybe Scott, some of your anxiety stuff showed up that way. That would make sense. Yeah. You want to see a big baby man cry at a part that maybe you shouldn't.

Is that scene in Onward where the older brothers. talking to the dad ghost. Gosh, dang it, dude, that killed me. Yeah, that was a mess. Yeah, that was a mess. And the kid looks like my son, so it was even worse. Yeah, it's even worse. Yeah, totally.

So, yeah, let me just quickly go through the rest of it. Just denial and avoidance or other reasons people don't keep going in this process of grief. And it's just easier in the short term to avoid. and but it is definitely not in the long term and can be really challenging. So let's see. Okay. And then we've got

this sort of how it shows up when you are not doing it. Actually, so, okay, so stuckness. There would be all of these sort of, and this is what's tricky, is you're going to have some of those same symptoms that are in healthy grieving. right but the unhealthy part would be that you shove them away refuse to have them drink

until constantly so you never feel anything like there's all the ways to stop those natural things from from happening could be examples um and so signs of healing and you know sort of grief doing its work and healing on the other end it's important to know that like you're never the same right it's you don't go back to the previous you and that that is really difficult. Yeah, it's like burn victims can heal, but they're going to be different. No, never the same. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But some signs that you are healing are things like you are emotionally available to

yourself, right? You're not constantly hiding from yourself. You are present and in the moment. You can be patient with yourself. You can somehow feel positivity again. You realize life is worth living, give yourself permission to feel what you feel, allow moments of joy, those things. So those are some signs that healthy grieving is occurring. So I often, I've mentioned this on the show before, but I often assign people an hour of grief work, and that is they take an hour once a week.

They light a candle, they go in the woods, whatever they got to do to connect to this place where this pain resides and they face it full on. They give it attention. So they can do that by writing, writing a letter to the person. They can just write whatever comes to them. They can cry.

They can paint. I mean, whatever you want to do in that hour that helps you express some of that pain is incredibly valuable. So it's my version of instead of weeping and wailing and throwing yourself on the grave, like you might have been able to do,

you know, in our puritanical society, you are going to find a way to give yourself an hour to do whatever wailing you need to do. And for some, you know, they're very blocked and that's very hard to do. So starting with writing, starting with just sitting there quietly, allowing, you know, listening to some music, something. But giving this part of you a window to express itself and then the timer goes off and you pull yourself together and you go back to the whatever and, you know, society will go, yay. You're fine. Right.

Just know society is wrong about how all this works, right? And so don't be asking for, you know, do you think I'm doing okay? There really is this sort of internal barometer as you feel better. So I would say this one thing to this emailer with her mom. Two things. One, do your own grief work. And the more you can do that and mourn the loss of your father and not make it about your mother right now. And that may just be you can do it one hour a week.

And that's okay. The better you will be able to be present for her in whatever she does need. It's the whole mask on yourself first thing. I know that's incredibly hard to do as you watch someone else suffer. But part of that is because your own suffering is not getting the attention that it needs. Right. So that's number one. And the number two, be present with your mom and express your own.

love and concern and be in the moment with her and try or you know try not to control her grieving and that's maybe a harsh way to say that um but you know hold space i mean you don't even know you're doing it yeah i get that that's the thing i've been thinking about is holding space like what does that actually mean to hold space for someone else's grief is you don't make it about you yeah and that's so hard to do if your grief is overflowing the canister you know you've got to empty that out. You've got to deal with your own. And in order to hold space for anyone else's grief, because if you can't do that, then it's about yours. And so your mom, who loves you, is going to worry about your grief and not worry

about her own. And so this is tricky to be there for one another at the same time, making sure you're there for yourself and your process means you can then hold some space for her to grief. Right. It's probably a whole other conversation, but learning to deal with people who think they've got bigger problems than you and understanding they're just in a different place than you is kind of hard too sometimes like if you just experienced a huge loss of somebody's like I'm having the worst day of my life what's wrong somebody keyed my car at the mall it's like really that's going to compare to you know you know it's that's a hard thing to keep in mind as well but yeah well and that's the

reason like you know my desire as I've thought about it since to only talk to someone who's lost a parent was that I would not have to deal with any of their garbage of they're they're trying to find that way to understand you and it comes from a a nice place in theory but it just doesn't compete like it you can't do it you can't say well I lost this and have it resonate you just need someone to hold space if they haven't lost the same thing but they can hold space for you to have lost what you have. I mean, that's a gift. And people can do that. Absolutely. It's not that everyone has to have lost someone to hold space. But man, the ones who have already know they can hold space. They can do

it. They've figured out to some extent how if they've done their work and grieved. So it's, I feel like, you know, unresolved grieve is probably one of the biggest problems we have in society. And if you notice that list, I said, of how it comes out sideways and how grief shows itself, you know, if it's showing itself in anger, right? Yeah. This past year and a half have been really hard for a lot of people. Yeah. And it's coming out sideways sometimes. And some of it is maybe nothing hard has happened for you.

And so you just aren't getting that people are coming from a place of pain. And so, anyway, I recommend listening to This American Life. I'll give you a good perspective on something. Yeah, it was. Well-timed. And actually, this leads to the thing I want to pimp. Oh, pimp it. Give it, get pitt or sorry, promote it.

Promote. Promote. Stop saying pimp. Yeah, no more pimp. You need a better word, but that also is shortened. Maybe we just need to take Pimp back. Yeah, let's take Pimp. Can we own it back?

Can we take it back? Was it a thing before? There was never ours to begin with. Let's take it. Let's own it. I love it. Okay, is this. And I actually talk a little bit about this in this, but I'm in a podcast with Alex on the dad Chronicles.

And Scott, maybe you can. Yeah, I'll link it out to everybody. It's the Dad Chronicles, which you can get anywhere on any podcast player or directory or whatever, just search for it. But Alex Albisu show where he, you know, a lot of fatherhood talk talks to a lot of other dads, but occasionally has somebody like Wendy on. And apparently you guys had a rad. a dad. You are definitely not a dad, but you had a real dad. He was raving about your appearance.

He couldn't stop talking. I mean, he kind of nailed it. Usually I have brain fog and I didn't that day. So I was on it. So you should listen. No, it's it. I think it just came out on Monday. But it is a conversation about how to model to your kids.

How, you know, with all the conflict between people in the infighting and the nastiness that has arisen in the last couple years, just how to model good behavior. And there's a surprise in there. It's not what to think. Anyway, it's really fun. And it's kind of ties to what we've talked a little bit about today, strangely.

Anyway, so check that up. That's my thing to promote today. Nice. Go check it out. The Dad Chronicles available wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Excellent stuff, Wendy, as always. And RealSteps.org, go check it out.

sign up or you know at least sign up for the communication phase of things and if you get accepted into the next phase that would be cool too if you keep hearing us talking about it and wonder what the heck it's about it's all right there on the page go look real steps dot org gee uh Wendy have a great week and um what are we three weeks from seeing you guys or something three and a half oh cool yeah it'll be quick and uh only a few dummies won't be vaccinated so it'll be great. Only a few. Only a few.

Scott, you should check out this podcast on the Dad Chronicle. It will help you. Oh, good. I need to deal with that somehow before all the happens in July. So we'll see how it goes. All right. Wendy,

have a great week. And we'll see you next time. Bye now. Bye. All right. A long one, but a good one. Yeah, for sure.

That's what they say about me. I mean tall. I'm tall. I'm a tall long. Oh, oh, oh, yeah, tall. Tall, tall long. You should clarify a little bit.

All right, check this out. We're going to play a quick mashup. Now, the reason I'm playing this today is because some people say, hey, what's the origin of that take no plums, leave no plums thing? Oh, God. Okay, good. So, Jamie, TMS mashups. Prepare to still be confused after you hear this. I'm just going to, like, warn you right now that.

But he reached way back down the throat of time and pulled this out. And I don't really have a timeline for when this was. said, but it was early in the show. It was, yeah. So, enjoy. You can tell because my voice is dumb and whiny. Hey, Brian. I sounded different in 2011.

I can't help it. I don't know what was going on there. But anyway, here it is. It's TMS Origins, the Plum Riddle. Enjoy. All right, before I play it, I want to do a riddle to you. This is an old favorite one I got when I was a kid, and I've used it every once in a while, and it never ceases to either stunt people or,

make them feel smart. So here you go. Guys walking down a path. In the middle of this path is a tree. It's an apple tree. Okay. I'm sorry, plum tree. Back up. It doesn't matter that much, but it's a plum tree. Okay. So the guy walks past a plum tree. Now, he neither takes plums nor leaves plums and keeps going. How is that possible? He neither takes plums nor leaves plums. Uh, he just walks by the tree then. Well, no, because he neither takes plums nor leaves plums. So that implies he's got some plum. There's plum in his life after he leaves that tree. Oh, I see you just saying. So he doesn't leave any plums on the tree. There are no plums on the tree when he leaves it.

Or do I? So here you go again. He sees the plum tree, walks past. I think there's a piece of this that you're not telling me. No, it really is not. I'm telling you everything you need to know. He neither takes plums nor leaves plums. Gotcha.

I see what you're just saying, okay. Well, let's say that it's off season and there's no plums growing on the tree. That wouldn't work. He neither takes them nor leaves them. If there are no plums on the tree, can't take them, nor can he leave them if there are no plums on the tree. No, because he ends up with, he ends up with a plum. He's got a plum all right. Oh, he does. Okay. Well, you didn't tell me that part.

Yeah, yeah. There are plums. Let me make this clear. There are plums on the tree. There are plums on the tree, and he neither takes plums nor leaves plums. How is that possible? Because he's got a plum hanging out of the bottom of his tiny gym shorts. All right, that is our sign that we are now going to tell you the answer. Please do. The answer is there are only two plums on the tree. So, it takes one. Takes one, leaves one.

So it's a plural thing. He neither takes plums nor leaves plums. So he didn't take two because that would have left the tree without any, but he... You didn't tell me until the very end that he ended up with a plum. Well, no. I did the whole time, because I said he neither takes plums nor leaves plums. That implies he has, he takes something with it. It's a good one.

It is a good one. Yeah. It's not bad. There you go. So if you, you know, you were sitting around and go, what the hell is that story? That's the story. All right? And that's back when I sounded a little more like this.

Yeah. Exactly. What's going on there? Here's one. Here's one that's not even a riddle, but it was something that James from same-sex Mary said while we were out there for this last trip. You know you're required by law to do it in his voice. voice, right? In his voice? Okay. All right, Brian. Okay. Uh, this is great. This is great. All right. Before was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, before was is. No. Before was, was, was was was, was, was, was is. In other words, was, was was, was, was is. In other words, uh,

Before this was, before now is the past, now is the present. Before was, was, was, was is. Oh, weird. That's cool. Yeah. That's actually really cool. It's an excuse to say was like eight times in a row. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. No, that's a fun one. I'm using that upstairs, if I can get it right. It's five times you say was. Yeah, that was really good. Before was was was was is. Talek says, English can be understood with a tough third. thought, sorry, a tough, thorough thought, though.

Yes. In other words, to show all the different G-H sounds. You know, English, what are you going to do? OU-G-H sounds, yeah. Well, that leads us to this part of the show where we say goodbye. Yeah, that's right. But don't worry, we will be doing a TMS PM tomorrow, like literally, actually doing it. We'll literally be doing it.

We will literally. We don't have the excuse to play. dates or anything like that it's an actual show so so be here tomorrow 330 mountain time if you're a patron if you're not one then sign up because it's only a buck and you can have that tomorrow you don't have to wait there's no approval period it's not like you have to wait two weeks to get signed up it's no government agency here we let you write in so head on over to patreon.com slash tms sign up today and if you're looking for anything else or that you can find it all at frogpants dot com slash tms you don't need to worry about the three ws you don't have to

think about the HTTPS or any of that. Ford slash is colon slash. Is there an S? Is it secure? None of it. It'll just work. That's a cell certificate? I don't know. I don't care.

It'll be there because you just put it in. It's just we've made it easy for everyone. Frogpants.com slash TMS. That's it for the show. Uh, I don't know about you, but I can't leave without at least some German in my life, Brian. Oh, well, I've got it for you. Hooray. Yeah.

Uh, Trent from Washington State said, this is one of the most entertaining covers I've heard in a while. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. Love the show, though, and there you go. That's all you need. This is a band called Cheetos magazine, with an apostrophe, Cheetos magazine. It's a magazine that belongs to Cheeto. A single that they released earlier this year, last year. This is a cover of Ramstein's Doohost, and it's the most fun cover you'll ever hear of Doohost ever. Here you go. Here's Cheetos, magazine. All right. That's going to do it. Thank you all for being here. We'll see you soon. You have you asked, you have, you haste, you hast not, you hast not.

You, you have, you hast me. You have me defraved, you have me defraught, you have me you have me given, and I have me said. Wives you, you, feel you, you, feel you, who is there, tot, and shine, be free of being, for all the day, but, no. No. Lie!

Do you, you see's your trope and shine, in all this time, we're all in the day, have been like all the day. Lie! Lie! No! Lie! I'm going to be.

We're going to be. You have You have You haste You have no You have me You have me I was said,

Wives you, Fishter Tocene in Allens say We're all the day This is a Lone,

This is a Hacht Lain and the Haste This is a man No and the Haste and the Micht

Wielst you Wich You know, Wist your Torn Schein Sien B Sende Have been

This is a Lone This is a Lone This is a heart No! No! This is the heart! This is the heart! No!

No! You are the heart and I'm not! You are you, you are the total, and scheide. Three is one, we all day, we all day,

ha, ah, no. No. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Frog Pants Network. Get more shows like this at frogpants.com. Oh, hey, Mr. Dortz.

Oh.