The Morning Stream - TMS 2148: Cookie Sticks

Episode Date: July 22, 2021

I Like That Peanutty Smell Comin' Outta Yer Mouthhole! Well, Spackle My Nuts and Call Me a Candy Bar! Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... Nougat. Once Again, My Analogies Are BAD! Nougat Or Not Challenge. If you need to feel good, toot my wife's horn! That's What the Pee Bomb is For. Einstein's Theory of Relative Humidity. The Less You Know, The More You THINK You Know, You Know with Bobby Frankenburger. Shamalama Ding Dong Twists. Not the Actual Three Musketeers. It Only Bends In The Heat. My hard hunk has nuts. Play Owl City For Old People. Therapy Thursday and more on this episode of The Morning Stream. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Coming up on TMS, I like that peonutty smell coming out your mouth hole. Well, spackle my nuts and call me a candy bar. Nuggett. Once again, my analogies are bad. Nuget or not challenge. If you need to feel good, go toot my wife's horn. That's what the P-Bomb is for. Einstein's theory of relative humidity.

The less you know, the more you think you know, you know with Bobby Frankenberger. Shamma-Lamma-Ding-Dong twists. Not the actual three musketeers. It only bends. in the heat. My hard hunk has nuts. Play Owl City for old people. Therapy Thursday and more. On this episode of the morning stream. The geek

has no natural instincts. It wouldn't know that it's causing danger. Doing harm. Nothing can go wrong with the geek. I swear by my pretty four-world bonnet, will end you this is the morning stream good morning all and one one and all that's the phrase uh welcome welcome to

tm s it's the morning stream for june 22nd 2021 i'm scott johnson that's bryanibit are you trying to sing that uh song from robin hood with uh brian adams and sting i just only did one and all and all for one Oh, my gosh, I forgot about that even existing. Who was the third? It was a third guy in there. Brian Adams, Sting, and... Oh, Adams, Sting, and...

Yeah, who's the third? Oh, Rod Stewart? Rod Stewart. It was Rod Stewart. What was going on there? It was such a weird... It's such a weird pairing. Completely forgot that was even a thing.

Completely blocked that out of my head. Wow. All right. Was that part of Robin Hood? Yeah. Was it? It was the Robin Hood, the Costner Robin Hood, wasn't it? Well, I mean, Brian Adams had his other song for that movie.

Anything I do. I do it for you. Oh, three musketeers. It would be three musketeers, not Robin Hood, because it was all for one, one for all. Oh, oh. All right. That makes sense. That's the Girard depart.

I think I said three musketeers first, and then I switched it. I think I said Robin Hood. I just want candy bars. I understand. I do. Either way, do you know why it's called Three Musketeers? Why the candy bar is called Three Musketeers? I have no idea.

This is a very interesting trivia for you. So, you cut a Three Musketeers bar lengthwise, and it's just chocolate all the way through. When it originally came out, it was like in the Apollitan, there was a strawberry chunk, there was a vanilla chunk, and there was a chocolate chunk. Down the length of it? Yeah. So like you'd be eating it, be like, you'd be like, in it. be like oh i'm in the strawberry oh now i'm in the vanilla oh now i'm in the in the chocolate yeah and they were the three musketeers the three flavors in the in the three musketeers oh so now that

it's just like gray nougat in there it could just be one one musketeer and it's not uh i don't think that's nougat newgit is a different thing that is just whipped chocolate i thought that was nougat now people people don't know what the hell nougat is newgit is yeah is an unidentifiable uh uh hold on let's see

unidentifiable uh product yeah if you look at nougat uh zagnut is probably the best example of what nougat is you take that you cover it with chocolate and that's a zagnut bar okay i think that zagnut or zero which one it's one of the z well oh zagnut i think it is zagnut i think that's right

isn't it or is that the brand i don't know i'm actually not sure But anyway, it says here, okay Boy, this is going to really change my whole life Because I've thought for this all this time I thought You thought right, you thought that that weird substance In the middle of a Three Musketeers bar was Nuget And you're not alone, a lot of people think that that is Nuget Don't they advertise it and say

No Chocolate covered Nuget? Oh, what was the, do you remember the ads? It was like they actually had the Three Musketeers Well, guys dressed up and not the actual Three Musketeers that guys dressed up as those remuscateers and what would they do?

Would they like slice the bar with their swords or something? Yeah, there was some and they would go ooh, chocolate covered. You've gotten sword metal in my chocolate bar.

You've got chocolate on my sword metal. Wow. And you're right. I am definitely not the only one. There is a lot. Yeah. Yeah, no.

It's people think that that Any substance in a candy bar they can't explain seems to be Nugent. It's like how every song parody on Napster was Weird Al Yankovic, even though it wasn't. Yeah. Wow. Every unexplainable candy bar is Nugent. Well, I don't even know how to feel about this. That's news to me that, I mean, not that this comes up in everyday conversation,

but the next time a Three Musketeers makes an appearance in my life, I don't know how I'm going to feel. I'm going to feel weird. All right. Well, let's play a little game here. All right. I'll name a candy bar. Go. You tell me what it takes to produce that candy bar.

Like, what is, what is in the cat? Let's start with an easy one. Okay, I like this. Let's go, uh, original Twix. All right. Original Twix. Uh, cookie, uh, cookie sticks there in the middle there. Uh-huh.

Right. Yep. I'm sure that's what they call them is cookie sticks. Cookie sticks. I think it was cookie. You know, it was basically, yeah. Cookie crunch. Whatever.

Um, uh, okay. Caramel. Oh, it poured on that. right and then some kind of chocolate on top of that yeah yeah pretty much pretty easy right basically it was a cookie and then caramel and then chocolate over the whole thing yeah the peanut butter variety did the same thing just replace the caramel with chocolate right it's the candy with the cookie crunch as they used to say sure sure let's do another easy one for you how about uh

let's see that kind of is an obvious one if I were to say um uh let's go Mr. Goodbar. Tell me what's in a Mr. Goodbar. Oh, when's the last time I had a Mr. Goodbar? I think there are almonds in there. There's some nuts. It's not. It is just, it is peanuts. Peanuts.

It's just basically it's a chocolate bar with peanuts in it. And peanuts all kind of jammed inside, right? They're all, okay, it's kind of random in there. All right, that's fine. All right, now let's get a little tougher here. Mm-hmm. What you might call it?

Oh, I used to love those. Mm-hmm. Okay, so I think that had chocolate on the outside. It did, yes. Peanut butter flavor or some sort of peanut butter equivalent inside. The crunchy bit was like, almost like a honeycomb style thing. Shit, I don't know what was in those. Like a butterfinger?

Is that what you're thinking of, that kind of honeycomb thing? No, not like that. It was more like a loose wire cage of something. See, I would have said rice, but I'm looking at the thing here, like crispy rice. What should you call it? From 1978 to 1987, what should I call it consisted of a bar of peanut-flavored crisp that utilized peanut butter as the flavoring agent, coated in a thin layer of chocolate. So basically, it was...

A crisp. Crisp. Yeah, just like peanut-flavored crisp, which kind of is... is similar to what you get in a butterfinger. Yeah, a little bit. It's more dense in a butterfinger, but yeah. More dense. It's not as right.

Yeah. But they added, in 1987, they added caramel and then had, uh, oh, um, see, I remember this was a big candy bar when, when we were in our teams. It was, yeah, like high school. We'd always, we'd go to 7-Eleven and get a, get a watch McCall at all the time. Yeah, I keep remembering, if, again, might be Mandela, but I keep remembering the commercial with something like, what's that? What's that thing you're eating?

Oh, it's a what you call it. Oh, well, don't tell me what it is then, you jerk. Yeah, they did the whole who's on first thing with those commercials. There's the whole honey bunches of oats. Yeah, I hate that. All right, Brian, I'm going to test you. All right. What's in, what's in a chocolate, scoop of vanilla.

Don't waste my time. Tell me what's in a, let's call it a Snickers. What's in there? Oh, okay, Snickers. That is peanuts, caramel. and chocolate over the outside. There's nothing else. Do they claim Nuget?

Oh, do they claim Nuggett? They might claim Nuget. They might claim Nuget. Who claims Nuget? I don't think they do. Who claims the Nuget? I think it, I don't think there's Nuget in a, uh, in a Snickers bar. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is.

Uh, chat says Snickers has Nuget. Oh, people are saying, people are saying Nuget. Yeah, but again, like, I feel like the, all these Nuget claims are now, question. Right, exactly. Unfounded nugget claims. I don't know if I believe them. I'm looking at the cross-section.

I think there is. Yeah, I think it's a layer of nugut and then it's caramel with peanuts and then chocolate over the whole thing. And so if I was to look at some raw nugget, would it be like a gooey, you know, almost like caramel but thinner maybe kind of? Is that what newgut is? I think it's more crunchy. Okay.

Is it a bonding agent? It's what keeps it all together. It's a bonding agent. Yes, exactly. Yeah. You get peanuts, caramel with chocolate. Okay. Tell me what's in a Mars bar.

Um, Mars bar. Shit. Chocolate, uh, it's been so long. I've had one of those. I know, yeah. Chocolate. That has almonds in it. No?

What do you tell me what your guess is? What are you guess? I mean, Milky Way's got none of that. That's maybe my favorite, by the way. I love a Milky Way. Yeah. Milky Way is, isn't that, isn't a Milky Way, uh, like a Three Musketeers Bar with caramel and nuts. There's no nuts. Zero nuts. Oh, there's no nuts in a milky way. Yeah, and it's got some

kind of fluffy business in the middle, but it's darker and denser than what I thought was new-getter's fluffy business. Yeah, whatever that is now that I thought was Newgate all these years. Um, I don't know if it has nuts at all. Maybe it's like, um, Mars bar's always reminded me of like a lower rent snickers to me. So I'll say, yeah, everything the Snickers have but nuts. All right. Uh, you, you know, you're actually really close. Um, nougat, toasted almonds covered milk chocolate. So no caramel. Okay.

Later caramel was added to it. So basically it's, it's, it's, a Mars is a Snickers with almonds instead of peanuts. Oh, it does have almonds. You were asking about almonds or talking about almonds early on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, almonds. That's where the almonds, so I always forget that it's not almond joy. Almond joy is not the only thing that had almonds in it. And I always think sometimes it's hard to remember that because it's in the damn name.

Yeah. Yeah. And Mars bars, I don't even think you can get those. anymore here, right? Or can you? I think it's a, I know they're huge in Europe. Right, I don't know. Yeah. Well, I haven't been in the candy market in a while. I used to like, you know what I used to like as a big hunk?

Oh, man. Oh, really? Now, that is, isn't that just chocolate-covered nougat? I think that's just sugar. Or chocolate-covered caramel. Sugar-covered sugar with more sugar on top of it. By the way, while we're looking, while I'm looking this up, J.C. Calhoun found the, um, found the, um, found the, or the, found the, found the, what, we call it commercial.

Oh, no way. Let's hear it. Let me find it here. Not the Pops and Recline. There it is. J.C. Cahun, no, where is it? I can't find it. Oh, I'll give you a little.

Okay. Yeah, I found it. Okay, here we go. Let's play this. Let's get a little bit of this in our life. Hold on. The volume's down. Here we go.

Lou, are you at Sam's Krispy? I love that peanut smell. What you eat, Lou? Hold on. I love that peanut smell. No, and you've never been next to anybody who's eating a candy bar, and you went, I like that peanuty smell coming out of your mouth. And they're like on their shoulder to shoulder.

Like, they're not even far, like, there's not even room for that dog. That dog can barely squeeze between them. All right. Plus, Brian loves hillbilly. So let's hear the rest of this. What do you call it? What do you call it? I mean, what's its name?

I told you the name. It's not. You said what's my call it. Try. Watch him a call it from Hershey. The thick, crunchy bar of peonity-tasting crisp drenched in chocolate. Watchamacall it. You can ask for it by name.

Give me that. Give me wood. Oh. Oh, my God. This might have been, this might have been, we might be witnessing the genesis of my hatred for hillbilly humor. My hatred for yokel humor. That might be the earliest example. Like, if we cut down, like, we slice that tree.

Yeah. That is the center ring of a tree. what's the worst part about that is all you need to do is just aim that candy bar at him and say look it says it on the side your whole pin under him's done yeah so dumb and i remember that commercial now it's pretty back to i totally do no what's its name i told you the name cladis it's a what you call it bar that dog had more brains than the two of those dudes it's combined oh that's true yeah i guess he-ha and beverly hillbilly were before that. Yeah, but was that your proto, you know,

where did you get the hatred from, though? Although I like the Beverly Hillbillies TV show. I don't know why I liked it. I couldn't stand a he-ha, though. No, he-haw is for somebody else. He-ha's the center ring. By the way, all right, so Big Hunk, not even chocolate on this thing.

Like, Big Hunk is Nuget with a bunch of peanuts jammed in it. Yeah, and it's hard, Nuget, and it only bends in heat, or if you bend it a whole bunch of your hands, And it breaks real easy if you don't. And it's also the worst tooth. It's so bad for you. Oh, it's an extractor.

Yeah, it's totally. Big time. It's spackle with nuts in it. It's really bad. But I used to love those things. Oh, my gosh. There you go. Well, there's your Nuggett, Scott.

You're a Nugut fan and you didn't even know. I had no idea. I mean, it just feels like, I don't know what to think now, though. So what do I call? Basically sugar and honey with whipped egg lights, basically. So what do I call the stuff in us three musketeers? I need a name. It's whipped chocolate, isn't it?

whipped or chocolate what's it called musketeers bar um well let's actually do that um what you call that

chocolate covered fluffy whipped moose whipped moose whipped moose whipped moose all right rookie lucky knock it off that hoarse oh yeah

here's something you'll really like Ouch Pull that out of there I used to love that show so much All right Well we've done We used the whole fist We've done all we can do

Hey did you try that Pokemon Moba thing I did Pokemon Unite Yeah how is it I didn't get a chance It's on my switch but I'm not I'm not a big Mova fan I've tried League of Legends

I've tried Heroes of the Storm Played Heroes of the Storm I think with you even a few times and I kind of like this only because I think I like it for the same reason that you like Heroes of the Storm you know the characters you know you know what they're capable of what their strengths and weaknesses are

from the other games that they've been in and bringing that into a new game you know add something to it and I think that's where it is for Pokemon for me it's like oh there's you know Sindaquil and oh check it out there's Littlio and da-da-da-dan Well, those games, I mean, the other comparison I would use from what I've been hearing is that it's also very, it breaks away from the kind of Dota model and is more like a team brawler sort of thing where teamwork means more than some dude who's lean and real strong or whatever and you have shared experience and stuff like that. I didn't, I downloaded it, it was going to play it last night. I got all wound up in this blizzard crap and I didn't have time to do it.

But I'm glad to hear you like it because I want to play. Yeah, I like it. Yeah. I'm looking forward to playing more. of it. I'm wondering if I can play against AI or if I'm going to have to find 13-year-olds to kick my ass every time I pop the game open. Well, they are out there. They're randoms. And they can be yours for the low, low price of three bucks a month. I do have to tell you. With some help from listener Ender, I got in and played Marvel Future Revolution, which is the Marvel Open World

MMO that is going to be coming out at the end of September for mobile. Mobile thing, yeah. Mobile thing. And it basically deals with those incursions that were a big Marvel storyline back in 2013 or something where the different universes were crashing into each other. And one of them would win or they'd overlap or whatever. And, yeah, I'm kind of digging it so far. Yeah.

Does it always pounding you over the head with some? stuff you can pay $0.50 to a dollar for? So far, no, which is really surprising. I start with Spider-Man, of course, because of course I started with Spider-Man. Yeah. And right now I'm playing it on Blue Stacks on my PC. I'm hoping, hoping, hoping that when it does come to iOS and my Canadian alter ego can play it, that I can use a PlayStation controller with it. Because I don't want to use the thumb controls on the screen. Sure. Assuming they put in controller support, which I don't know why they wouldn't.

I don't know why they wouldn't either. I'm hoping they do. And I imagine I could probably get it working with blue stacks, but that's a... Burgess Diesel is in our chat room, and he says, oh, you played it? Yeah, so you don't know if it's got controller support yet Burgess Diesel. I'm hoping it does. I'm hoping they had that. Yeah, that'd be cool.

A lot of new games do, like I know, you know, Ampl Arcade games are required to, but the the general stuff sometimes well quite often these days has controller support so that's good um real quick i noticed something in the chat where was it oh omega 9x was the one i was talking to last night in the uh i was doing a shipbreaker stream and he was telling me all about Pokemon so uh i need to i need to i'll play it today i'll go kill some 13 year olds i don't care let's go why not i like he says you can get real fed in that game then just smash the face of every kid in the game yeah he just means you so feeding in a moba is like um oh how do you i don't know how you describe just like grinding it

up grinding up uh yeah you can just quickly get your crank your XP and okay yeah yeah it's i mean i'm not having not played that yet i'm not sure if it's the exact same meaning but you know feeding feeding that's quite the quotes idiot i that put that on my gravestone man who um all right so that's cool i'm glad you did that by the way uh i want want to I'm just going to make a recommendation here. You know, sometimes I hesitate to mention these things because I don't want to sound like I'm trying to toot a horn or anything. But you know what? I'll go ahead and toot my wife's horn. If you guys want to feel good, you need a moment of feeling good. There are two ways you can do it. One is, you can fire up Owl City and listen to

his music all day. That's number one. I heard you talking about fireflies. Does he have another song? Is there another song from Al City besides fireflies? Tons of those. He's got all kinds of music i mean that one was so prominent it's hard to ignore but are they are they all uh autotuned no no like he's got here okay i give you a good example uh let's see here he's got uh this well i can't play it because we'll get in trouble but you've heard a good time it is a good time you've heard i'm here i'll play a tiny maybe i'm in if you're down to get down i know you've heard it no really are you sure that's not the theme to the Pokemon game. I just

downloaded on the switch. I mean, look, it's happy, happy songs. That's what they do. So you can do that, or you can go find some really old people to help. So we have these old people in our neighborhood. What if they're just kind of old, not really old?

Well, I mean, let's say, not that you need to pick and choose, but let's aim for the 70s to 80s in that range. That's kind of where you want to be, because that's where things are, you know, people start to struggle. And there's this really nice lady in our neighborhood and her husband who was just, her husband was just diagnosed with early

Parkinson's or, sorry, dementia. Alzheimer's? Early Alzheimer's with, I don't know, there was some other caveat, but anyway, nicest guy ever, but he's, you know, he's starting down that road. And she's just trying to keep it all together and take care of them and everything. So Kim has made it her goal every other day or so. We walk over there

and we bring them. Like yesterday, we had a bunch of new tomatoes and cucumbers. in the garden. So we picked those, put them in a basket, took him over to this lady and her husband. A day before, or two days before that, she made a batch of jambalaya, took a pot over to those guys. What I'm saying is, it's therapeutic and cathartic to think about somebody else for a hot minute and do nice things for them. So go find some old people. Just go look around, just find an old guy. Maybe it doesn't work that way. There's got to be one in the basement here somewhere. We've got everything else down. Yeah, that's why you got the pee bottle. He got the old guy down there.

That's right. Exactly. Anyway, just a recommendation, okay? Go out there and do it. You'll feel better, okay? And then listen to Al City. I don't care. Do it then. Or maybe find some old people and play some Al City for them.

Exactly. Have you ever seen the video for Fireflies? It's really cool. It's a cool video. Yeah, I don't know if I have. I did watch the video for Depeche Mode wrong yesterday, which I'd never seen before. Holy cow, that thing is like it's like it ripped right out of a David Fincher movie. It's like this.

You got to watch it after the show today. It's really good. I'm going to write it down. Is this a newer song? It's one of their newer songs, yeah. But newer like 2008, 2009. I think he... Newer than...

Who's the main singer? Martin Gore. Martin Gore looks so cool. He's growing old. Martin Gore is the blonde, curly hair blonde. Oh, I'm thinking of the other guy. David Gahan is the brunette. Okay, that's what I'm thinking of.

The brunette guy looks cooler the older he gets. I think that guy. guy's cool. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, he's like, um, uh, girlfriend in a coma. I can't think he was named. Morrissey. Morrissey looks better the older he gets. Morrissey looks better the older he gets to. For more you ignore me, the better looking I get.

Oh, oh. I love that guy. All right. Let's move on to some science, shall we? All right. Yes. I think we are in the mood. here for some science. But to do that, we've got to bring Bobby Frankenberger in. Yeah, we do. Got to play this thing right here. I think science. I'll make you go poo-poo. I agree. Hey, it's Bobby Frankenberger, who probably regrets ever making

that sound on the show, who was now joining us all the way from South Carolina with his hair and all. Bobby, welcome back to the program. How are you? I definitely do not regret making that. That's how I talk. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, You know, I'm a dad of small kids. Yes, you are. I know how you talk. It's time to go, poo-poo. You popped up on my, uh, my TikTok again this morning out walking, telling me about some science.

It was pretty rad. It's pretty cool. Oh, yeah. I just did one. I just put one out about, um, basically it's about what relative humidity really is and the difference between that and do, and do point, what do point is. Uh, do point. Do point. And the tease, I guess, is why southern states are actually at the bottom of lists of average humidity in the United States.

Yeah, why is that in a nutshell? What's the deal there? Because of how relative humidity works. It's basically relative humidity is telling you how much of all the water vapor that could fit in the air. What percentage of it actually is. is in the air. So like if you have half of the water vapor that could be in the air, then it's 50% humidity. If no more water vapor will fit in the air, it's 100% humidity. And cold air is capable of holding less water because the molecules are closer together. So it can reach 100% humidity. It can reach higher humidity levels quicker. And because warm areas like the southeast where I live are warm, the molecules are farther apart. It takes more water. vapor to get to higher humidities. All right.

Well, I want to, yeah, go ahead, Brian. It still feels wet, wetter in southern states, and that's what Dew Point is. Yeah, I don't like that. That feeling is awful. I don't like it. You take a shower and you go outside and you feel like none of that happened. Like, it was all in the dream. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it annoys me. I like being in a dry climate. Well, anyway, you're here with a Zelda shirt, and that's awesome. Let's get to the big point here, which has nothing to do with your shirt. I just think your shirt is cool. It's my favorite franchise. Yeah, exactly. Hey, you were going to talk about the Dunning Krueger effect.

Yeah. And I have no idea what this is. Like, I've heard it before. I've heard it in passing. People talk about the words, but I've never heard somebody say, and that means. And so now today we're going to get that, I guess. They do talk about the words, like they often do talk about words. The Dunning Kruger.

So to give some context, you actually made a tweet the other day about, it was about some anti-vax person who died of COVID. And you were, you weren't doing what everybody does and making fun of that person. You were actually expressing how sad that is, because it is sad. It is. It's maybe more sad. Yeah, exactly. And so, and in some of the replies, you expressed this idea, made this comment talking about what you perceive as the death of expertise, which I've heard before. And it made me think of this Dunning Kruger effect that I wanted to talk about, because I think it's an important critical thinking lesson that everybody,

can learn from and it's very relevant to this everyone's an expert social media landscape we're in right now so what is the dunning kruger effect well it's uh it's this observation in psychology where people with um with a low ability at a task at low expertise levels tend to overestimate their level of expertise or their ability in that given area So, like, the less expertise you have, there's more of a gap between what you think you know and what you actually know. Is it because you know what little you know is simple? I don't mean that pejoratively. I mean, it's simple because you have what you think is an easy answer or a simple answer.

So your answer is very black and white. And so you say, well, here is my answer. And then that clashes with what is actually true, which is common. complicated because nothing's deeper right exactly well why don't they just do this yeah and yeah right right so the the psychologist dunning and kruger uh who who defined um and and and sort of describe this effect they they describe it's basically the way that in a way that you're sort of describing it now which is the idea that the less expertise expertise you have in an area um the less likely you are to understand how complicated and nuanced a topic is

because you don't know about it. Like, a really good way to think about this in my, is think about something that you guys, that you know a lot about, like, like, Scott, a great example is art. You know a lot about art and illustration and stuff like that, right? Sure, sure. So think about that and think about how people

who don't know anything about the nuanced complexity of art and styles and and techniques and all that kind of stuff how someone who doesn't know those things probably knows doesn't even not only do they not know how complicated art can be to to do and to understand and to and in and all of those things but they they really might not even know the things that they don't know do you do you know what I mean yeah I don't you're saying so it's kind of like going um oh gosh, it's like, oh, you know what this is like. It's not quite art related, but it sort of is. It's kind of connected. I knew this guy at a company who was, I don't know, he was pretty young. He was probably 21 when he started working in the warehouse of this place I work. And he had a lot to say about a lot of things. But I remember once being in the back and I had to be back there for a long time. So I was cranking up some electronica of some kind. It was probably, I don't know, freaking crystal method or somebody like that, some band I really liked. And it was just pounding away back there. and he looks over at me in this very sort of cocky way and goes

you know I don't know why you like music where just a computer just makes it all I said I said I'm sorry and he goes yeah you know I mean this isn't really you don't have to be a musician to make this stuff this is just you know a computer makes it right and that's exactly what you're talking about I think he's got this simple answer in his head that because it's electronic music and not a violin or a guitar or a piano in the traditional sense, then it must be a computer making it and there's no talent involved. Like all the spaces get filled in. There's no need to be anything other than whatever. And I knew for a fact that what he was saying was 100% not at all true, but he's also 21 and

dumb and what are you going to do? But that feels like a case like that. And if an actual electronic musician had been there, I mean, that guy would have had to, you know, how do you restrain yourself from not wanting to go off on dumb stuff like that. Right. Right. And that's part of the problem. Is it the Maslow thing? Is that, or am I thinking of something different, where you're the four stages, the unconscious incompetent, the unconscious incompetent, the conscious incompetent, then the conscious competent, right?

Oh, yeah, yeah. That was a quote that was simplified a lot by, what's his name, the former general guy? Oh, you know, I just saw this in that documentary. You guys are talking about the known knowns, the known unknowns, the known unknowns, the Oh, yeah, the Rumsfeld documentary, right. Yeah, that Rumsfeld was really into that whole thing. And that's, you know what, that's kind of the point of that documentary. It's very good, by the way.

100% recommend it. Errol Morris makes no bad documentaries, and this is one of them. It's really good. But the entire takeaway, or at least for me, was at the end of this thing, that his tendency to do that. And he's a very smart man. Okay. There's no like lack of intelligence coming out of Donald Rumsfeld. He's at his core, a very intelligent person. But he had this tendency to come up with these idioms and then cram everything into it and in a neatly, neatly formed way that was not reflective of the complex truth of it. So him saying, well, there's known unknowns and unknown knowns and like all this kind of thing. It gave him these unique little, these fun little categories to stick stuff into. But at the end of the day, it was a way of justifying, you know, pursuing an unjust war during a time where they, you know, they had bad intelligence and couldn't admit it. And like, there's all, you know, there's all this stuff around it.

It was a far more complicated thing than just having unique category of your unknown unknowns. And it's kind of annoying when people do that. A lot of people assume. So one of the one of the misinterpretations. that people have of the Dunning-Kroger effect when they hear about it is, and this gets misreported in news headlines sometimes when news places

will talk about Dunning Kruger is a misinterpretation is that dumb people don't know how dumb they are. And that's not what's happening, okay? Because it's important, and this is why I wanted to talk about this and why I think it's an important lesson is because we everyone, this applies to everybody, every one of us are subject to the Dunning Kruger effect because the actual data that and graphs from the studies that they did on the Dunning Krueger effect don't show that dumb people think they're smarter than than smart people. That's not it.

Actually, and I should stop calling them dumb people. We know who you're talking about. The actual, what's happening is that people who have a lack of expertise don't actually think that they're better than people who do have expertise. Non-experts will accurately tell you that they're not experts. It's just when they try to rank how much knowledge they do have, they overestimate how much knowledge they do have. And the interesting thing about this effect is that there's like a very direct correlation with how, much knowledge you do have about a particular area and how big that gap is. So what I mean by that is, the more you learn about something, the more accurately you are able to assess your knowledge of it because you start to understand how nuanced and complicated something is.

The really cool thing about this is that it flips at a certain point. really like very expert people high in their fields have the opposite happen they they've drastically or maybe not drastically but they do underestimate their expertise because this happens I've seen this I've heard people talk about this that I know who went to medical school and stuff where they'll they'll go through years and years and years of medical school and then they'll start these these these um like narrow narrow areas of focus where they go and specialize in one particular area and then they see these like five of volume tomes that are just like gigantic 5,000 page volumes of of the medical diseases that can happen in your

little finger and they're like they're like holy cow did I And I don't know any of this. How much other stuff do I not know? Right. No, you open up the thing and there's a flood in there. And that's the thing. Like, if you take an example, like an anti-vaxxer nurse, someone in the chat mentioned this,

made me think of this, an anti-vaxing nurse who thinks they know more than an epidemiologist. And they're 100% sure of it. Here's the problem. Here's the knock-on effect. We can say, oh, well, that's the Dunding Kruger effect. And you are having that. and the expert does not, and they've learned

and they have that curve, and now they know more than they think they do, but you think you know it all. You think you know 100% in your limited view because you're just, you know, you're a nurse who maybe doesn't understand it. But people on the outside, here's the knock on. They go, well, she's a nurse.

She must know. And now you've got your own little mini Dunning Kruger. You got Dunning and Krueger and your own little head on your shoulders going, hey, look at this bullshit going on. And so now you think you've got it all figured out because you know a nurse who's anti-vax. And she must be,

she must know because she's a nurse and that's very little information about a thing you don't know about. Yeah, that's a whole other, and that's started with a sort of Dunning Kruger-like effect and then gets amplified by another, you know, logical fallacy, which is like this fallacy of expertise, right?

Right. But that's why this is such, that's why the Dunning Kruger effect is such, important skeptical lesson. Gwakmar in the chat said something that I think makes the point, which is, or asks a question, which I think makes the point, which is what does it mean when you want to learn as much as you can about everything to the point of questioning the answers that you're given? So that's, there's, it's, it's important to be skeptical about, about the knowledge that you are receiving and you can take that too far, of course, but you have to

you have to question you have to practice being skeptical and critical about the information that you see in your given because you can accidentally lull yourself into a false sense of expertise and then um and then you you lose and you miss all the nuance of of a topic it's it's why we see this this has been talked about in skeptical communities for a long time it's it's why uh experts opinions can be wrong all the time about different things when they're misapplied outside of their expertise. Pilots who claim to see UFOs, for example. Just because you're a pilot doesn't mean you can accurately identify a UFO, right? Scientists, you just said, nurses, for example, medical experts who venture outside of their area of expertise, a little bit of knowledge can get you into a lot of trouble. And that's kind of the lesson. Yeah, it's interesting. Because I was even thinking about this dumb nougat conversation nibbitt and i were having um and how if you would have before today if you would have put me in front of a room of 200 people and said scott you need to tell

us an example of a candy bar with nougat in it or we're stripping you naked and throwing you to the wolves i would go common situation i've been there i would go i'd say three musketeers and i'd be wrong i was so confident in my simple information that i risked being thrown to actual wool naked and I lost like that's how willing we are to go with our basic assumptions sometimes is we'll go all in and it sucks it's a terrible

once again my analogies are bad but you know what I'm saying you know yeah well this is yeah it's fascinating it's just important to always question what you know again you can go too far with that but but just if if your

default mode is to always question why you know something and And then at least you're going to be critical of it to a point. It's better than not being critical at all. And just don't get yourself into too much trouble thinking that this, you know, like a simple explainer video that you saw while you're scrolling through Facebook makes you like a particle physics expert or something. Right, exactly. Right. And you can get so into your head, you can say, well, yeah, that was a simple video and it seemed to make sense to me.

but so does your Dunning Krueger effect chart. That looks overly. What if that's overly simplified? Like, it's so easy for people to get all up in their brain and twist themselves into pretzels like that. And the funny thing is, the Dunning Krueger effect is, the way I've just described it is oversimplified. In the psychology community, they debate about what it really means. Yeah. Oh, really?

Everything is more complicated. It's something that on our podcast, I say all the time, it's more complicated than you think. It's really pretty complicated. It all is. Everything is. It's hugely complicated. Oh, my gosh. Look at just the atoms around me right now. Look how complex this is. Holy shit, the world's complicated. All right. Tell people more about that show where they can find it and learn more about some cool science goodies.

It's called All Around Science. We do it every week. We talk about science news and just stuff like this. You know, things that we might find, things that we've been thinking about that we want to just talk about that are. science-y, and yeah, we do it every week. So subscribe where you get podcasts all around science. Nice. Go do that today because that's what we're telling you to do. And when we tell you to do something...

When we tell you do something, we want you to do it. Yeah, we freaking mean it. Bobby, have a great week. We'll see you next time. See, Bobby. All right. Cool. Yeah, that's interesting stuff.

Yeah, that Maslow, the thing that I was talking about, the four stages of learning, we used to use that in our training at the newspaper. sales software company all the time and we always attributed it to maslow and it turns out it's often incorrectly attributed to maslow it's actually martin broadwell oh but um they should call it the broadwell effect we should call it the broadwell effect but my my buddy used to use the example of a kid who doesn't know that he needs to tie his shoes doesn't know how to tie his shoes but doesn't even know that he doesn't know how to tie his shoes and those are the four stages like now he's aware that he doesn't know how to tie his shoes.

Now he knows he needs to tie his shoes, but he's not competent at it. And then finally, he's aware he needs to tie his shoes, and he's competent doing it. And he knows how. Okay. Yeah. I really start, I think maybe Rumsfeld stole that idea. I really do. And clearly Rumsfeld doesn't how to tie his shoes.

No, no. Yeah. I mean, even at the end of that, I told you, but at the end of that interview, he says, Errol Morris says, why are you even doing this? Like, why did you even agree to do this? And he goes, hell if I know. He doesn't know. It was such a great ironic moment because the name of the documentary is the known unknowns or whatever.

And he doesn't even know why he's there. Amazing. It's a great, it's a great doc. All right. We're going to take a break. Brian's going to play a song. And you're going to, it's brought to us by Coverville. Oh, we don't even have time for news.

Holy Macroll. Yeah, yeah. Well, here's the thing. It's brought to by Coverville. Hey, remember when I was talking. talking about Martin Gore of Depeche Mode a few minutes ago. Well, he's turning 60 tomorrow. So today is going to be all Depeche Mode on Coverville.

It's one of my favorite types of cover stories I do because there are so many bands who do Depeche Mode covers and put them in a completely different style. Everything from jazz to swing to kind of yacht rock kind of maybe not quite that far. But anyway, it's going to be coming up today. 1 p.m. Mountain Time at Twitch.tv slash coverville or coverville. TV. And come get your Depeche Mode fix with that. We've got a really good...

So that song I was talking about with the music video, the version I'm playing is a very blues rock version of that, like a black keys kind of thing. And I'd forgotten, because I heard that, I'd forgotten what the original Depeche Mode song sounds like. So that's why I look for the video. And I saw that video, I'm like, Oh, wow, this is a completely, this is a completely different thing.

This is so cool. All right. Let's talk about the indie in the middle as I pull up my notes on that because I forgot to do that. Well, you know, it's just, it's how we go here. It's fine. Yes, exactly. All right. So this is a band called Secondhand Sound.

They've got a brand new album. I'm sorry, a brand new single called Chesapeake. These guys are alt-roids. rock, let's see, alt rock from Nashville. But you'd never guess it from this. This is their brand new single Chesapeake. Here is secondhand sound.

All right. We'll be right back. Stay tuned. Deep breaths are hard to find Hard as money I decline Every tip that I have made Makes its way to the Chesape

Tell me what matters Tell me what don't Let me see the beauty Before it goes How you've grown How you've grown Hidden gloves My jacket on

She held the answer right on her tongue Did my best to kiss it off The sofa store Parking line Tell me what matters Tell me we don't Let me see the beauty before she goes how'd she know how'd she know

no Never felt like this before Feels like Someone's knocking down my door Come blow my mind Go on, go on and dry Show me the beauty, show me the pain Let me stand in the pouring rain

But not alone Not alone Show me the beauty pain let me stand out in the in the foreign rain

the night alone not alone show me the beauty show me the pain let me stand out in the

in the foreign rain Night of one Night of war Night of war Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The geek is just a machine.

It has no heart, no soul. If there should be a mechanical breakdown, it could go haywire. I don't have a wiener! the morning stream rambling goes in podcast comes out you can't explain that and welcome back to the program that song again was that song was chesapeake by the brand new uh by the band second hand sound brand new single chesapeake very very nice yeah uh all right well done let's uh let's uh see if i can my sister in here now that she's she's um she's running a little bit of a tight schedule today i guess

she's got like a girls camp she's in charge of so i don't know what any of that means except she mentioned that it might be a little weird so we're going to try to add her and um it may just mean keeping it shorter but it might mean i don't know what it's going to mean we'll find out you're going to find out when we find out okay that's right yes it'll be quick fire uh therapy is what's happening it's a short email and related a little bit to last week's bobby segment but we can probably crank it out, as my guess. Now, I show she's on mobile, but she's not picking out. So I'm going to pause.

I'm here. Oh, man, one of these days we'll unpack this stuff that we were just talking about on this segment, but not today. Today's not that day. Hey, Wendy, it's good to hear from you. I hear you're getting ready for some kind of camp or something. What are you doing? Yeah, so there's this lake called Lake Atasca,

and it's where the headwaters of the Mississippi, it's where it starts. Yeah. So you know the old indigo girl song. Mississippi's mighty. Don't we all. I'm in Minnesota. And it's a place you can walk five steps down according to the song. So my goal is to go and try to take five steps and cross it.

That's my goal. Anyway, so yeah. Well, very nice. It sounds like fun. Well, that means we probably have for a relatively limited time. So we'll take advantage of what we've got. Yeah. Oh, we got to do this.

Hold on. Let me go ahead and waste approximately three seconds of time. I appreciate that. No problem. All right. Let's get to it. So we got an email that was kind of a follow-up to a discussion we have with our science segment expert, Bobby, which we do also do on Thursdays before you come on. And normally it's like, oh, this new nebula showed up or the Mars rover found this.

But sometimes it's, you know, sociology-related sort of human science stuff. And anyway, we got this email from somebody named C from Idaho says, hello, scoot and boo-boo. That's me and Brian, I guess. I love last week's segment with Bobby talking about the brain and how some. Some people search for things that could go wrong with future events. I do this constantly, and it's a huge source of anxiety for me. I'm sure Wendy has touched on this before. If so, please just direct me to that episode.

But if not, I would love to hear Wendy's take on how this, or sorry, on this, and how to stop doing it all the time. Thank you in advance. Love the show. See from Idaho. And it's true. We have. We have discussed this in some form or another and different conversations with different contexts,

but it feels like a perennial one. It just keeps coming back. and I think probably because a lot of people deal with it. And a lot of people are maybe dealing with it more with post-pandemic reasons and other things. So let's help C from Ohio, Idaho, Wendy. What do we do for C in Idaho? Hello? You're doing great.

Oh, thanks. Thanks. I appreciate it. Thanks. Yeah. Okay. So I don't get him with Bobby scoot and boobut. This is funny.

Anyway. It's a long story. Okay. Okay. Good. All right. So let's start with this. Thinking about future events, why does anyone do it?

So first I'm just going to ask you guys, why do people think about future events? So you can be ready for the problems that, and be prepared for the problems that could come up. Like I think about when I'm packing for a trip, I think about, oh, man, what if, what if I get an email from this client and they need this changed? Do I have everything I need to be able to do that? Or what if we go, what if all of a sudden we go swimming? Do I have everything I need for that? Yeah. That sort of thing.

Okay, that's a funny one. What if all of a sudden I need to go swimming? We'll be ready. That's happened before where we were going somewhere. We weren't expecting the hotel to have a swimming pool and we're like, oh, well, shoot, let's go swimming or go in the hot tub. And I had to run out to Ross dress for less and buy a swimsuit. Oh, I remember that. Not prepared.

Yeah, actually it illustrates a really good point, which is preparedness, right? Like feeling like you've got sort of the wherewithal and all the things and it just makes things more pleasant, right? Okay. So that seems like a handy brain behavior or a tool, right? Sure. I'm guessing it's rooted in, you know, ancient man's desire to not get eaten while they go out. So where's my spear? Where's my, you know, I need something warm in case the snow is bad or whatever.

we're we have survival instincts based on what if i and count two bears that i need to we'll see well i think about that too like it's it is really survival and there's there is a benefit so for example when okay you can probably think of stories where you left your phone somewhere and that panic i mean it's an adrenaline like like fire fight response if you left something you didn't mean to leave your keys or you know whatever right so we have a response as if we are in danger when we miss it so the next time around what does your brain do go yeah i remember that you dummy i'm going to remind you in the night two a m hey do you have your phone right this is the you got to fly early in the morning and you're just never going to sleep right it's because there's

no way your brain's going to believe that you're going to actually be ready because it has enough experiences where you forget things right um okay how about you Scott why do you think the brain needs i mean i you kind of gave your answer but do you have any other thoughts why maybe why it goes a little haywire yeah it's not too far yeah um yeah because i do that very i do that a lot um i've gotten better that's funny i've gotten better at it in some ways and worse at it in some other ways but i tend to think of worst case scenarios in every almost every situation um and what's funny is there's plenty of situations in my life where i never think of worst case scenario. Like being on the air right now, worst case scenario is plentiful. I could go nuts about

they're all going to watch me have an aneurysm on the air, you know, some horrible story. But I never think of those things. I think of things like, I don't know, let's see. Like I really, when we take a road trip somewhere and we're going to, we're doing that soon for Vegas. I'll think, I will overthink things like, well, we got to, you know, it's really hot what's going to happen if the car breaks down well if the car breaks down then this happens and if that happens this happens and before you know it you're dead on a rock somewhere and a bird's pecking your eye out like I can get what if we're stuck in a traffic jam and I have to pee yeah yeah that's happened plenty of times in fact back when I was having gut issues years ago

every every trip in the car anywhere was a plan I had to make a planned activity out of it like I had to really think about it and go all right am I you know when I did I eat lunch and it was my gut kind of freak out one of the day because I don't want to be in the middle of I 15 and congested freaking you know morning traffic and not be able to do anything um so but that stuff's gotten easier like it's hard to explain why or i don't even know what happened i think i got older and i just care less but um i was talking to dunaway about this weird because he and i share a lot of anxiety stuff and and he said i think what's happening is when i was younger i had the flight part of fight and fighter flight he says and as i've gotten older i've he says have gotten older i've got the

fight of the fight or flight. Oh, interesting. And you're just more angry when it happens. Yeah, just grumpy. Grumpy, old man. That's what this, this is how it starts. Yeah. Interesting.

That's a good way to put it. Yeah, like, as someone who overdoes it, I can, I can definitely see why some people do that and go really far. And the emailer put something interesting and has it just kind of actually backwards or just the wording here, C said, let's see. I search for things could go wrong in future events or why do people do that? I do this constantly and it's a huge source of anxiety for me.

So it's actually that anxiety is the thing causing you to think about future events constantly. It doesn't create anxiety. It is anxiety and or possibly. I mean, obviously I haven't sat down and talked to this person. But if your brain is always, always,

always looking for something to go wrong in the future, that is not just, you know, glitch that is your brain doing anxious work right it is trying to protect you it is trying to think through all the different scenarios and then it has a an effect right which is it drains your energy it adds more stress i mean take take brian's swimming thing right he goes randomly somewhere and he you know it's not that big a deal because there's a ross dress for less anywhere and he's fine yeah yeah thank goodness for that but what if he was at, you know, this amazing place with all these wonderful pools and there is not a

swimming suit to be found for a hundred miles. Well, I would just be dumb planning on my part. Right. It would be. But you can see where like, okay, the more traumatic it is or the more painful it is, the more sort of stress is added to that, right? So you can start to build. And this is the thing about anxiety that is fascinating.

All of us have a predisposition for an anxiety disorder because we are a human beings with a nervous system. Now, some have had experiences in their life, certain kinds of parents, certain kinds of environments that have, and some of it's epigenetic where it's sort of like gets activated. And you can, you're suddenly facing it like a full on anxiety disorder. So what's the difference between these two sets of people is often, um, the things that you've been through and the building of this or sort of the repetition of it or the the I can't get the words mixed up the um operant conditioning of it right which is you are feeling anxious about a thing your brain is saying oh you got to remember to do this stuff okay you do this stuff you get rewarded you calm down so your body's like yeah that's how we do it then

and then something bad goes happen because you forgot something your brain doesn't let you let go of that thing and builds this whole case. And so now you're not allowed to ever have a future event without that thinking. So you can see where this can sort of get worse and worse and worse with time. And it's really easy to make it worse. And I mentioned this on the show every once in a while, just research out of Yale with these kids getting treated for anxiety disorders. And the most effective treatment plan was not medication and therapy.

The most effective treatment was to treat the parents and not even see the kid. And the reason is you train the parents how to interact with that kid around anxious thinking and moments and time times. And the kid learns a different skill set, a different way of thinking about it. And it starts to impact how they think about those events and what they can do with their brain rather than reinforcing the anxiety with panic, anxiety and seeking behavior or acting behavior. So, for example, I don't know what Cole does with his. future event thinking but what would be helpful i think is to pay attention write it down ask other people how you act so for example i always say people if i've filmed you while you are doing this worry about your future the future event thing what would i see and that gives them a some ability

to kind of pan back and say oh well i think i pace around the room and i start making a lot of lists and I call and do this or that, you know, whatever it might be. So you can see that your behavior is showing that you're anxious and that you're trying to plan and do whatever it is. And then maybe you're talking about it. What's happening in your head? If I film the inside of your head, it's just like, you know, buzzing, what's going on?

And all of those things that are happening, if this keeps getting worse and it's constant, it means you're reinforcing it. You're making sure it's. happens every time. So sometimes you're going to need a professional to help you break that cycle. And sometimes just, and that's what I'm going to give you today is some at-home DIY remedies. So number one is take a scenario where you are, you don't love it. You don't love how this keeps happening. You don't love that you're always thinking about planning for some

terrible thing to happen in the future. And the next time it happens, get yourself a piece of favor and write out what it is your thinking. Write out all the thoughts and get a good sense of what you are behaving, how you're behaving. So now your behavior just changed. You went from whatever you usually do to sitting down and writing. So that is a start. And then once you've kind of blown through the initial surge of adrenaline and push that it is, right? Like, oh, all that. this thing is so so think of a horrible thing that could happen scott you're going to have an aneurysm right now while we're talking take that as real words yeah brian guess what's going to happen to our bodies we are going to have adrenaline shoot through us oh yeah you guys are going to go into

weird mode if that happened to me yeah yeah so think about just the story of it is enough if you listen to it and you believe it is enough to get that started without it actually having to go to the full thing. Yeah, having actually seen one of these, I don't know if you ever saw the, forget about his politics for a minute, but Rand Paul, his dad, what's his name, Ron Paul? He'd had this happen on a live stream

of some sort in 2020. He's an older guy and he was getting interviewed and they were all, you know, the government, blah, blah, blah, doing whatever. And then he just started talking gibberish and then nothing but gibberish and then he just looked concerned like this is what I'm saying is not actually coming out of my mouth kind of thing.

So some kind of mini stroke or something. And boy, that was hard. That was really hard to watch because my first thought was like, how horrible would this be to have happen? And I'm on the air all the time, you know? So like I've had, I will admit to a couple of times on a show, I will smell toast because someone's making toast, okay? It's like an actual toast.

Right. But it's still this moment of like, wait a minute. Have I really smelled toast? Yeah. And so a little. A little part of you goes, blah, blah, and you're like, oh, no. But then you're like, no, it's fine. I'm talking.

Everything's fine. You just kind of move on. But I don't know why I shared that. But yeah. Thanks for me hungry for toast. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Everyone wants toast. But that's, that's the idea of like, our, we're ready. That's what the whole system is about. It's about to get ready. And so just ruminating, thinking about it, planning. Your body is responding in prep, fight or flight, right? It's releasing some of those adrenaline.

Like, it's getting you ready to do it. Okay. So if you think about that, all that energy going to nowhere. That's what's kind of frustrating overall. And this is why people eventually sort of burn out or get help eventually because they don't have the youthfulness to just worry about everything all the time. It gets worse and worse and worse. And sometimes, like your friend was saying, it just turns to anger.

Yeah. And it shifts over time. It's not something that is sustainable because it's messing with our system in a way that it shouldn't be used for and is being used way too frequently, right? Okay. So say I'm going to write it all out. Get all your, all the stuff that is rambling in your head out on paper. Find another person to talk it through with. You know, notice what it is that your brain is saying and what it's doing, right?

and you sort of get it all out, and then see how you feel. So that's step one. Try that. See what happens. Because the obvious thing that most people want to do or try to do or get others or others will do for them is to try to use the logic. Well, that's not going to happen. I mean, let's look. And so you can go down a whole other rabbit hole of like, let me figure out all the ways to prove that I shouldn't feel this way.

And both in that case and then just keeping it in your head. head and panicking and you know never stop never you know stopping um those two things do something very interesting is they keep making this feeling um that kind of like it's ignored and therefore gets louder and more real right yeah yeah so kind of like we've talked about different episodes here of what if we instead turn to it and check in with why it is knocking on the door so loud. So give me a recent

either of you can do this. Give me a recent worry about a future thing. You have no control over. Probably isn't likely to even happen. But that is a current stressor in your life. And then if you start to talk about it, we can get your adrenal clouds with me.

Claire, Claire completely hit the nail on the head with me. Ireland, we're supposed to go to Ireland in a little over 40 days. and obviously right now is the big worry is all right stuff is opened up we don't have to quarantine when we get there all that stuff just opened up this week but now we've got delta variant or we've had delta variant to worry about for the last few months and you know things are spiking up does it mean that great the day before we leave we're going to find out

that nope you're going to have to quarantine in your hotel for five days before you can you can leave and there goes half of our vacation right there right can't do anything about about it at all. Nothing, but perfect. Yeah, but it's a big worry. Yeah. So my, I like Brian's, because Brian's is very practical and that's, that seems like a worry that you'd want to keep in the back of your mind because you're going to have to react to that possibility if it happens, right?

Like there's some, this seems like there's some reasonable practicality to Brian's worry today on that level. I have one that's as existential and it's, and it's eaten me up. So, so, yesterday, I have to get a bunch of details, but basically, and this is a series of these because the industry is kind of in a bit of a mess right now. But there was a huge lawsuit yesterday that came out against Blizzard Entertainment, a company I'm, you know, connected to in lots of different ways. And it's horrible. The sexual harassment thing is just horrendous, just reading that.

I read the actual court documents. It's so bad. Just workplace stuff. And we don't have to, again, don't have to get into the details. but once again an example of kind of a quote unquote people are calling frat boy culture but whatever these are adult men behaving very poorly um doing really really terrible things either directly or indirectly to their female counterparts at work or otherwise and here I am on this end of it having spent the last 20 plus years watching my middle child daughter uh fall in love with

with that business and creatively aim toward one day I want to make games dad. And I'm like, yeah, you do. It's awesome. Just look at these people at Blizzard. They're great. You want to be like that. You want to work somewhere like that. Wouldn't that be great? Oh, yeah, that'd be great, dad. She literally graduated with an engineering degree in games production from the University of Utah and just graduated. Couldn't be proud of her of her. She's now ready for this stage of her life. She's finally to that point where she can put those desires in motion and set her side. it's wherever she wants and it feels like the whole thing is a toxic nightmare and this feeling of like a i don't want to send her into that and it's not my job to send her into that she's old

enough now to decide where she wants to go but but i don't i don't want that for her that that that kind of environment and you may say well this is like um taco bell the day after they closed for food poisoning it's a good time to get in because everybody's clean shop everybody's fixing it people the the wrong people are resigning or the right people are resigning and better people are in their place and you know and then maybe true like the outlook might actually be good there's sunlight on this stuff and that's good but i have this existential feeling of like i don't know anymore and also you know my polyanish view on it all for so many years is kind of like like all of my encouragement was that where was that even coming from was a place of false security or whatever like

it's really eating at me like bugging me but I don't have any kind of real immediate recourse for it I don't know what to do about it specifically to my daughter like you know I can be a voice a voice of positivity and of change in whatever sphere of influence I have within this larger community that's connected to this problem like all I can do good there and that's good and you know whatever but this just feeling of like I don't know I just don't want her to get chewed up in it or or Or have it be so bad that it fears her off into not following whatever goals or dream she wants to follow. I don't know if any of this makes sense, but I just, I'm feeling, I'm feeling fathery kind of anxiety in that, in that regard. And I'm not even sure she shares the anxiety because we haven't directly talked about it since, since it happened.

We haven't, I haven't been able to talk to her, but, you know, we probably will today. And that'll be a good part of this. But anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. because you get to hear out of the mouth of babes too right like the the the change this this stuff only changes because it there are just younger and younger folks here are just not going to put up

with crap anymore right and it's good it is the taco bell after the food poisoning right well that's my take and you know i don't know but okay i think carter's going to be just fine And you're the dad. So that's different, right? So it puts you in the, you know, it's the vulnerability that is, you know, because you're talking about existential or sort of fear for your offspring and for the future in ways that, you know, as the fabric of society seems like it's ripping, it's actually maybe repairing, right?

Like there's actually, it may feel so different. And there's always going to be chaos as things shift and change. But, you know, I don't know. I think the kids are going to be all right. That's just my dick. Yeah, they probably are. And like I said, like she's, she looked at the Ubisoft. We don't have to get into the details, but a few months ago,

similar stuff came out in Ubisoft, France. And that was a company she was actually aiming for them looking like, I want to go to France. I want to move to or Canada, be in Montreal and work for them or whatever. And then that all kind of exploded and got weird. But her attitude was always a good one. Like, all right, well, this is good, though. We want it to be exposed.

We want this stuff to get worked through. It's still, you know, on the larger scheme of things. And I know everybody keeps going, well, there are a lot of industries like this, not just games. No, I know that. I'm just, but we're being, we're specifically talking about this particular industry. It's young in a lot of ways. It's kind of in its adolescence in a lot of ways. These things were coming, like this kind of reckoning was coming.

And it will be good in the aftermath of that reckoning. It's certainly not going to go anywhere as an industry. It will continue to grow. But, and that was her attitude. She's like, yeah, well, that'll just improve because look at this. It's great. There's sunlight on these problems. And before it was just hidden.

So this is good. And she's right. But it's still, it's still just like, man, man, what the frick? Why are people so gross? Like, what's going on? Anyway. Well, they've always been gross. Here's the thing, too, is like you're getting it back to this idea that, like, sort of worrying about future events that catastrophizing them, they're going to be bad.

What you're struggling with is it's hard for you to see this as completely good or that she'll be okay, A, because it's your daughter and you care about her, and don't want bad things to happen. But it's also just this, this is an interesting evolutionary thing we do, which is we're trying to predict something in order to protect ourselves or others from it, right? And so often, if you go back through all the worries you've ever had, how many have actually happened? it's very rare especially because the more creative you are the more problematic this is right I'm not very creative so the worst thing I can think of you know probably does happen because it's not that bad you know but I think that that and and I would argue anyone you meet that has anxiety is very creative um and you know it's nice to be a blockhead sometimes you just don't you can't even pitch your stuff so you're fine um and and so take what this emailer is talking about like

How do you, how do you stop it? Well, my argument here is, is not to avoid it, push it away, just try to distract yourself. All the things that there's so many easy, quick ways to try to do that, it just makes it worse. So to stop, write it all out, listen to it, check it out, say, okay, you know, and we've talked about this before, just sort of checking in with like, hey, thought that just keeps pounding into my head. what is it you really want me to know here like like a kid who's pulling on your jacket and is trying to communicate something and you're not listening right eventually if you just stop and squat and look them in the eye it might just be something very simple like I need to go the bathroom and all the problems are solved right but you if you don't ever stop and listen

or check in like why am I so upset about this what is this really about for me and give that a real minute you'll find that it can be this or that and it's not what you think it is is right so the the carter thing if you really stop it's that you know this is a world you've introduced her to and you care deeply about that and it's your grief right this is why carter's not struggling with it she can be mad about it or frustrated or wish it was better herself but this isn't her baggage it's yours yeah she's not being betrayed by it in the way that i am and it's just a different kind of betrayal and i know and it's also one of those betrayals where I'm the least of the betrayed.

Like, I am way down the list. You're some peripherally betrayed. Yeah, like, I'm only betrayed by proxy in a way. Like, it's, I understand that. Like, I want to make that clear. I don't, this isn't me trying to find a way to become the victim here or part of the victim. No, no, not at all. But let me say this that your grief around this gets your lack of maybe grief.

I know it's recent and you now have homework to grief. But your, your grief around. it blocks you from seeing the future and your child sort of more honestly. And this is true for all of us. So I don't know what Cole is stressing about, but if he or she or C or whatever their names are really gets down into what am I thinking about? What keeps popping in my head? What do I worry about? And just get really open to, is there unresolved grief here? Is there something I need to be doing and this isn't run around like normally you just follow whatever the voice says and you go and do it like okay well buy life insurance four million times over or i will buy 200 swimsuits

if i'm brian you know like that kind of spadzy response is not that's listening to the anxiety directly and running with it or trying to avoid it this is really stopping and checking with like why does this keep coming up what is it i need to to face that i'm not facing and that's that's really the point is that we have something um that is real in our life that our system doesn't want us to maybe look at face on and so it's showing up in these other ways and taxing our bodies and stressing us out and you know making our behavior and our decision unhealthy and so this sort of really hard self-work is worth it but it's it's so much easier just watching Netflix. I mean, it is. Yeah, it is.

Than to really stop and listen and hear it. So I've done this a couple times in my own life with a few things that I have been just floored. I thought for sure I understood it. I understood why I was feeling a particular way or why the situation. I pride myself, unfortunately, on pretty good analyzing other people. So I think I can do it for me. And so that's what I did. And I stopped and I was like, all right, do the work and really focused and really listened. And the answer was so different and so relieving and so helpful. So I don't have anxiety. I don't struggle with this per se, but I have everyone has their own version of this, right?

Anxiety tends to be just a very hyped up version of do a bunch of things to try not to feel pain, do a bunch of things, think about a bunch of things, over prepare. or at least think about it over preparing in order to not feel pain or have someone we love being pain. So it's stopping and really sort of getting to this. So I'm going to give you, I'll give you a quick example. I was recently with some family and I had a sister-in-law telling me about some things she is hoping to do and getting really excited about. And I just saw so many concerns and flaws with her plan.

And I was kind of arguing with her about some things and trying to be gentle, whatever. Anyway, four a.m. I wake up and I have, I'm replaying the argument. It's not an argument. It's replaying the conversation. And it is, I should have said that. Or maybe this is a better. And I'm just going through the whole, you know, should haves or and or plan the future of this of a conversation. And I stopped and I did this thing I'm talking about, which is just like, hey, interrupter of my sleep. How's it going? What is it? What am I supposed to get out of this? Yeah. Why are you knocking on the door? And it was very clear thought came into my head, which was, you just really want her to succeed. Like, you really care about her. And I was like, yeah, that's why I'm having this fake conversation in my head is I actually

really care about her and I want her to be successful. And then I right back to sleep. Did not interrupt my sleep like it normally would have. Next day, we had a great conversation with that as my base of like, you know, I don't need to tell you anything. I just need you to know. I care about you and I want you to be successful. And if you have questions or ideas, hey, I'm here.

It's shifted from this is my problem to I care about her. I mean, isn't that amazing if you think? It's so simple. But that's ultimately what I want this emailer to do with these concerns. And you two, obviously, Brian with the swimsuit. I forgot what your thing was, Brian. The Ireland. Yeah, the Ireland thing.

That's all right. No, whatever. You're fine. No, and Ireland's actually a really good example of it. It's so logical and everyone will agree with you. Like, this is really a thing. Versus sometimes they feel they're so fantastical. You say them out loud, you'd be embarrassed, right?

Like, oh, I can't believe that's what I'm worried about. But in your case, it's obviously, you know. So I would recommend doing the same thing. Like, what is the fear? Maybe it's the loss of an amazing vacation. I don't know if Ireland, too, right? Maybe it's that, wow, I really need that. this. And so you, you check in to find out what it really is. And then that anxiety starts to calm

down. It's pretty cool. Yeah. So everybody try it. Yeah. Let's give it a shot. And Cole, let us know if that works for you. And we'll give it our own shot. Or C from, from Idaho as we Oh, yeah. Well, Wendy said Cole. So we may as well let it out. We may as well say it because she said it once. But yeah, yeah, there's a lot of coals there. We'll just mention this one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's all good. It's not as many Ross dress for lesses, but there There were a lot of coals. Oh, yeah, many coals. Oh, Coles with a K.

Coles with a K. Well, this is great. Wendy, I hope this trip is fun. It sounds like it'll be fun. Yeah. And, yeah, I might actually put it at me walking across the Headwaters in Mississippi on Instagram. This may be what breaks me through my year and a half.

I hate it. Oh, my gosh. Look at you coming back to social media with a vengeance. I know. I'm not promising anything. It depends. If it's actually more than five steps, I don't know. And I want my money back into Go Girls.

That's right. Take that. All right. Have a safe one. We'll catch you next time. All right. Talk to later. I'll see you later.

Bye. All right. There you go, Brian. What do you think of them apples? Pretty good apples. Yeah, good apples. Yeah, if you're going to eat an apple, may as well eat this one, I say.

Speaking of which, no, there's no, there's no transition. We're done. That's the show. Patreon.com slash TMS is how you continue to support us. I want to thank everybody else who always. already does. It means great things to us when you do. So thank you, thank you, thank you. It's how we keep the lights on, as I often say, frogpants.com slash TMS for details on that and everything else we got going on around here. And as always, we love your feedback at the morning

stream at gmail.com. And I think we can get out of here with a song selection from Brian a bit. Yeah. This one's going out to Nick B. This is an older request, but I keep some of these older ones to fill in spots when I've got a day where I don't have a birthday or an anniversary, or something like that to celebrate. This one comes to us from Nick B. He says, hey, Brian, no special occasion. Just wanted to share the song that first got me into covers when you played it on Coverville a few years ago.

Love the show, though, sign Nick B. This is a great example, too, of the kind of thing that I like. You're very familiar with the song, Sympathy for the Devil, by the Rolling Stones. This song changes it up really dramatically in a really cool way. without, without changing its meaning or changing its, um, uh, yeah, let's just say, let's just say changing its meaning because it does change the style. It does change even the perspective, but keeps the meaning intact. This is, uh, singer Sandy Shaw. She recorded this back in 1969,

very shortly after the Rolling Stones released their version, came from a, uh, a ride-along CD, uh, Mojo magazine. Back when they used to have really good cover CDs, stuck to friends of Mojo magazine called Stoned. Here is Sandy Shaw's sympathy for the devil. All right. We'll see you guys. Oh, wait, do we have a PM tomorrow? I don't remember.

We do have a PM. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's the next week we got our thing. That's right. We do our play date next week. We've got a play date coming up. So tomorrow, check us out. We'll be doing a PM for the patrons, sign up today, and you'll get in.

And Dan will be there, I think. And it'll be a good time. So join us tomorrow for that. FilmSack this weekend, for sure, for real, this time. And what else? other stuff core tonight and plenty of content so check it out and coverville today one 30 mountain time as well well o'clock oh one o'clock what i say one 30 it's right one o'clock you guys get there early or no you get there 30 minutes late you're going to miss the first set of music

that would suck all right third of the defash yeah you need all the mode all right that's it thank you all for being here we'll see you later Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm the one Hope often taste I've been around for the long, long year's stolen many of men So in faith I was around when Jesus Christ

had his moments hop down and fade I made damn show a pilot washed his hats and sealed his pain pleased to meet you

hope you get my name but was cussing you was the nature of my game I slept around St. Peterburg when I saw it was time for a change

I killed a song and his minister's Anastasia She screamed him back A roll attack I held a general's rank When the blitz free reign I'm about to stand

He's demeania Hope you get my name But what had done you And the nature of my games Watch quickly while you're king Like queens for ten decades For the god's name Shouting out who killed the Kennedys

When I'm wrong It was you and me Let me please introduce myself I'm the one But what's the taste Well, they turn to the door Who'll get killed if they finally reach one day Please to meet you

Hope you get my name But what's confusing you Is the nature of my game You know, I'm going to be able to be. Please to meet you Call me against my name But what I've done you Is the nature of my game

Just that every cop Is a criminal And all the sinners But I think I hate the town Just call me a little zipper Because I'm in need On some restraint

So if you meet me Had some courtesy Have some sympathy Hand some tames You've done your well-earned politics Are on laid Some sweet Please you mean you

Oh forget my name But what had done you about Think you round my game I'm the one of the world for a wealth of taste. I've been around for a long, long years, stolen many a man's soul and faith. I was around when Jesus Christ had his moments of down faith. Oh, ma'am Charlotte Pilot Washed his hands

And till his fake He's to meet He's to meet you. But what's worrying you In the danger of my day You know, I'm going to be able to be. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Frog Pants Network. Get more shows like this at frogpants.com.

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