The Morning Stream - TMS 2186: Sing a Song of Pancakes

Episode Date: October 7, 2021

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Fall is here and we could all use a stiff breeze. That's right. This episode is brought to you by Bluchu. Guys, confidence can take you far in life, but let Bluchu take you the rest of the way. Bluchu.com and the code TMS. Coming up on TMS, he's the bug-eyed weirdo in the back of the car. No dude left behind. Borka Borka into your heart.

Putting the rock on the moon. Dude will be giving her treatment and I'll be getting it from a lady. The chat popping in and out. Who is Alan Alda's wife? Boy, this sounds like something I read a... Earlier, no old man left behind. Pre-industrial dentists of Belfast. Rotating, shippy stuff.

Futuristic magnetic carpet. I can't see Chris Pratt stand. Share your grilled cheese with otters. Throwing yourself at the ground and missing with Bobby. Therapy Thursday and more. On this episode of The Morning Stream. Half cups of purpose flour One teaspoon sold

And a tablespoon spoon white sugar One and a quarter cups of milk and one egg And then there three table spoons Of melted butter Melted body I would like to see the baby Looking to retire and open a restaurant A bounty hunter named shit

Fun fun intros this morning Fun interest. No kidding. I love that it's talk about making it so apparent how formulaic pop music has become when you can take a pancake recipe and turn it into a pop song. Yeah, if y'all were paying attention, you now have the recipe for pancakes in case you were wanting to make them. So get out there and get that done. Found out of TikTok. I laugh so hard.

This girl has a lovely voice, and she mostly does covers on there, but in this case, she did the recipe for pancakes. And of course, you know, guess what her most viral video is? It's this one. Yeah, it's not. Of course it is. Yeah. I don't know what happened with Fletcher there, but hey, whatever. It's Thursday.

That means we're just about ending our week of morning shows. That doesn't mean we won't have an evening show on Friday. That's right. It will be an afternoon show for us. But evening, somewhere in the world. Somewhere it's evening. Oh, that's right. We do it at two now.

What am I thinking? Of course. Hey, I'm Scott. That's Brian. He fuzz myself. Yeah, there you go. It's what day? is at Thursday, October 7th, 2021, and Brian and Scott are here.

We're going to do our thing. We're happy to see you all. We hope you're well. All right. A couple things here to knock things off here this morning. We got a follow-up. Oh, man, I love these. These are great.

Actually, there's a lot of follow-up today. Bobby segment today is follow-up on the thing we talked about. But this one's an email from Scuttlebutt Lord of Scuttles again. Remember he yesterday had the email? He said, hey, Jans, don't really expect to read this on. on air, but thanks, or expected you to read that on air, but thanks for that. It says also, if I'm

to be schooled on a song, then being schooled by Coverville himself is aces. Have a great day, Scott. That's cool, right? That's very nice, yes. I hope I didn't feel schooled. I was just like well, you know, if you're going to, if you're going to

hate those lyrics, don't hate on the beach boys, hate on the old traditional folk song that he came from, or hate the weavers who turned it into a pop song. Those guys are jerks, those weavers. Don't hate the, don't hate the... Yeah. Don't hate the play. I hate the game. That's right. But no, like, if I have a musical quandary, and I don't know the answer to it, I usually go to Brian.

That's my answer. You ask me, and then when I give you an answer, you Google it to confirm whether or not a break. Then I'll look it up and say, is Brian lying to me? Is he making this up? I'm going to go find out. And usually you're right on the money, and so I think it's a... Usually, but there are times it's like, oh, really? Okay, I thought that was such and such, or blah, blah, blah. Well, that's why we do double blind studies here, you know. Right.

Somebody's got to keep me in check. Peer reviewed. We've got to send this out to other podcasters, have them review it, make sure they're, you know, we're all in the up and up. It's all good. I wanted to give a special best of luck to listener, long-time listener, Michael, 15-year listener of like all things, frog pants and especially TMS. Michael's Wart, who is under the knife today, removing some sort of tumor. I think a brain tumor He is in the Netherlands

And I saw his stuff on Facebook Which you know If Facebook's good for anything It's for letting me know when you guys need something When someone's hurt or having a hard time or whatever So anyway, I noticed that I reached out to him He was in pretty good spirits

And I told him We all collectively wish him the best of luck But anyway, if you're out there And you just got a thought to spare For Michael today Just, you know, guy you may never meet. Some positive vibes. Yeah.

You may never meet him. You may, you know, you may never even see his face. But he's one of us and, you know, we take care of our own. Damn it. Exactly. We're like the Marines. No man left behind, I say. That's right.

So he promises he'll follow us. Or a woman left behind. Or woman. You know, when I say man, I mean the old way of mankind, you know? Mankind. I got you. Yeah. What do we say?

People kind? What do you say? Human kind. Human kind. Human kind. No human left behind. Where no one has gone before, as Captain Picard taught us. Anyway, Michael says he'll follow up when he's done and let us know how things went.

And we wish him the absolute best possible outcome for what's going on there. And they have good health care in the Netherlands. So it'll be okay. They do. They should anyway. Well, they do. They got a lot of smart people. They got, you know, people, regular people can afford it.

It's a good deal. It's a good deal. And, you know, mash-up man's out there, too. He can pop over and say howdy. That's true. Mash-up man, do your work. Do your dirty, dirty work. Okay.

He's a, he's a scary guy if you don't know him. When he walks in the room, he's like... He's a very intimidating, tall man. And then you find out he's just a big teddy bear. Yep. And he'll just borka, borka his way into your heart. It's pretty great. All right.

Anyway, so that's what's going on there. I have a dental appointment today. So I don't need your thoughts and prayers, okay? It's fine. Just going in for... Is this just a regular cleaning business? Yeah, six-month cleaning. And we try to keep up on that.

And hell, we're paying for it. I may as well use it. But yeah, we've got to go in there. Kim and I got a simultaneous appointment. Oh, really? Fun. His and hers cleanings. Yeah, right in the two rooms will be adjacent and it'll be lady here and dude here.

Dude will be doing her. Geez. Dude will be giving her the treatment. I'll be getting the treatment over here by the lady. Way, way better. Yeah, you fix that. And I don't expect any big issues today. I think it'll be fine. I'm not too concerned. But, you know, Dennis. You love the dentist. So I'm talking to the choir here. Yeah, love the dentist. I just like the fact that they let me wear my AirPods. I take my little, my fidget cue. which just keeps my mind off of whatever they're doing. Oh, you actually take a fidget cube? That's a cool idea.

I take a fidget cube and it just sits in my hand and I like, you know, flip all the buttons and do the switch. I think I'm going to do that. I got one. You might as well, right? I mean, it's like, it seriously, for whatever reason, and I don't necessarily, I don't stress about the dentist like some people do. Sure. But this so takes my mind off of what's going on. Yeah, that's what you want.

You don't want to be... And boy, boy, when, if something, if they zing that one little spot, one little exposed nerve, I think I bend the crap out of this metal ball that's in the... It's the worst, because you anticipate it even when they don't do it. You're sure they're going to do it. Yeah, exactly. It doesn't matter how many times they don't do it. There's always that chance that they will.

And I have the same thing with that nerve ball. Yeah. But the nerve ball is only when they do Novocaine in there. so I know I'm good in most other situations. In Brian's case, a cleaning can mean hitting that nerve. Yeah, exactly. And then we hear about it on the show, which is content, which is great. We like content.

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, I mean, Claire's like, I'm sure that's not annoying hearing all that clicking for the dentist. Guess what? They can't hear a damn thing over that sonic. They can't, like, this does not come through. Nope. Nope. Sometimes they give you like a Kleenex.

and then what I do is tear it apart. Oh, no, that's at the eye doctor. So what the eye doctor will do, he'll dilate me. Oh, right. Then he gives you a Kleenex to dab your eye or your, you're, under your eye. Yeah, so I'm getting the poop out of my eye, and then I'll sit there and slowly tear it to pieces. And by the time we're done, I'm covered in little bits of clinics. It's bad.

I can't imagine what happened with the dentist giving you a Kleenex. It was like, you know, just shreds of Kleenex all over the place. Yeah, it's really annoying. But I am what I am. as Popeye said once very famously Brian Claire asks why is there

Zizzing Do you just do Belfast dentists not have access to modern dental technology of Maybe they just put them out Maybe they just knock them out

God maybe Maybe that's the way to go What do you all do? We get a little bib Yeah you get a bib Type thing It's just a paper thing Here in the States

Or at least mine is And then when they if they're doing any kind of cleaning or drilling, it makes sounds. Even the sonic like... Jeez, and that thing makes a lot of sounds. That's like you hear that for hours after you leave. Yeah, it's no good.

Let's see if this triggers, Brian. I want to try something. Hold on. All right. Just a little quick thing. Just to see how, you know, you react. Sure. Okay, here we go.

All right, Brian, how does this land on you right here? Let's see. Is that a good one? Yeah, we'll do this one here. Okay. Whoops, we need to volume that up. Oh, geez. Oh, that's the sound right there.

Dude, that makes my, that actually causes a little bit of weird pain. That molar right in the back is buzzing a little bit. I was going to make the joke, wow, why are you playing the music that Tristan usually plays when we're in the car together? That Dutch speed metal is really, really come a long way. Exactly. Wow. Okay. Is he still into that stuff?

Still into the... No, no, he's getting a little. little bit more mainstream stuff, which is good. Like, he can be in the car and he's like, oh, I want to, can, can you play this song? And I'll tell Apple Music to play. And I'm like, oh, this is really good. Like, he, he independently dug that Willow Smith song. Oh, yeah, yeah.

He liked, oh, wow, that is a big. Transparent soul that we both kind of got to at the same time is like, oh, you like that too? Yeah, I don't like that song. A moment of, a moment of father, son bonding. Exactly. it didn't even turn into a, oh, you like that song, great. I guess I can't like it anymore.

Yeah, that's, that's nice, though. It's nice to have a little thing you can share. It is, for sure. All right. Let's get Bobby in here. Bobby. So Thursdays is a science segment. And the science segment this week is a follow-up on a dumb thing we were talking about,

which is kind of cool. And why can't I find him in here? Okay, there he is. All right. So I'm adding him to the call, and we'll talk to him. now. But I've got to play his little intro to make all this worth it here so let's do that. I think science.

I'll make you go poo-poo. I agree. Hey, look who it is. It's Bobby Frankensteinen Bergenheimen. He joins us from South Carolina, a state not known for its adherence to science all the time. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

All I know is I saw, I saw something really interesting. I was like, I'm not the biggest Lindsey Graham fan. Okay? Not the biggest but he's standing up in front of a bunch of people for some kind of event and he says y'all should get vaccinated and he's talking about how everybody in the hospital right now is unvaccinated and it'd be good if y'all did it and they just booed him to hell and back just booed to the guy and i'm thinking man if you're going to boo lindsay graham in south carolina what the hell are we

doing so bobby's like this shining light of you know whatever it is look at look at you bobby look look at me look at you yeah look at you yeah look at you anyway here to talk about some science now the funny thing is this week

I think it is me that kept pushing the idea that I'd love to hit a golf ball off of the moon and everybody was like you can't or terminal velocity this and escape velocity that and you know all these reasons

why those two golf balls are still up there and my contention that there's probably a third that some guy whacked off and now it's like, you know, circling Pluto. Yeah, I heard it too, Bobby. Oh, damn it.

He's going to, Jamie's going to get that. But anyway, like, that ball's out there orbiting some other planet now. Like, that's my take. But Bobby's going to come to the table with the actual science. We're going to talk about this thing, really break it down. I love it when we get the actual science. I agree. So, Bobby, actualize your science and tell us what we're going to do today.

How are we going to do this? So I understand why you think you'd be able to hit a golf ball off the moon though because it really seems like when you see the astronauts jumping around up there yeah like they jump and they kind of float and land and yeah yeah yeah i mean the gravity certainly is a lot less on the moon because that's all based on the size of the object or the mass of the object that you're on right sure um but it takes a lot to escape the gravitational influence of a body like like the moon or the Earth or something like that. It's actually

this is really interesting when you shoot a rocket into space from the Earth you know that you don't just shoot it straight up. Did you know that? No. I didn't know that. You have to do what's called a gravity turn and so

they will start by shooting it straight up because you want to kind of get as far away from the Earth as you can really quickly because the farther away you are from the object the less gravitational influence it has on you, right? The further you are from Earth, the better off you are, that's what you're saying. I got you.

Certainly, you're 2020. But what happens is you actually want to turn and start going in a horizontal direction as well, because have you ever heard the... So when something goes into orbit around the Earth, have you ever heard the explanation that to orbit the Earth, you basically have to be you have to fall towards the earth and miss the earth have you ever heard that well i've heard douglas adams say the secret to flying is to throw yourself at the ground and mess right well there's it's it's funny that that um that that that that he said that because it's kind

of how orbiting works because first of all so every every object on earth and i'm getting to this all will help you understand why you can't shoot easily hit a golf ball into space. But every object like the Earth or the Moon has what's called its sphere of influence, which what that means is inside this big invisible sphere around the Earth or the Moon, if you get into its sphere of influence, then you are now captured by that object's gravity and it will start pulling you toward it. Does that make sense?

Interesting. Pops and Recline in the chat added to that, don't climb up a mountain straight easier to climb in a spiral. Same principle? Like you're just getting less resistance? Yes, it's the same principle because if you go straight up, you're fighting all of the Earth's gravity

and then what happens is once you get away from the Earth and you're going to fall back down. If you shoot straight up, then you're going to fall back down. That's always going to be happening. In fact, everything that's in orbit right now is always is constantly falling.

In fact, being in orbit is better described as constantly falling rather than going around the earth. Well, it's like the perfect mix of you're falling, but you're falling at the exact mathematical rate so that the curvature of the earth and therefore the gravity is going to be pulling you while your momentum is pulling you away, the earth is pulling you here, and it's just about holding that exact number, right? Yeah, so a good way to visualize it, since a lot of people are listening,

is to think, if the Earth wasn't rotating, let's just keep all things equal and say the Earth's not rotating. And you just, if you shoot yourself straight up, let's say you're orbiting at, like, the International Space Station, the ISS orbits at around 400 kilometers. So let's say you shoot yourself up 400 kilometers away from Earth. Yeah.

to the height of the space station, you're just going to fall straight back down and land in the same spot. Now, let's imagine you shoot yourself straight up, but you also go forward by a kilometer. Well, then you're going to fall down and you're not going to land in the same spot. You're going to land some distance away

from where you launched from, right? Right. So if you shoot yourself straight up and you keep shooting yourself forward further and further, you'll land farther and farther away from where you landed. Well, if you can manage to shoot yourself forward far enough, to where where you land is now no longer on the earth because you've pushed yourself forward far enough that you miss the earth, then now you're in orbit.

You'll keep going around. It's a little bit more complicated than that because you need to make sure that you, because then there's the Earth's atmosphere which will cause drag and slow you down and stuff like that. But that's the basic idea of putting something into orbit. And so you're always falling. And that's why when you're in space, in the space station or something like that, it's not actually zero gravity. That's why they call it microgravity is because the Earth's gravity is still acting on you the whole time. It's just you and everything else around you are all falling towards the Earth at the same rate. Interesting.

So they got to make sure that the space station is positioned so that the microgravity is kind of always in the same place in the station, right? So that if there's a floor in there, you're kind of always on that floor. floor. So the floor is parallel to the Earth? That makes sense, right? Well, they probably orient things in such a way to make it, to make it convenient for the astronauts, for sure. But at that point, that's all just convenience.

And artificial gravity isn't a thing yet. That's just a Star Trek thing, right? No one's can't come up with a way to create, to artificially create gravity. Yeah, I think the best, the only way that artificial gravity could theoretically be created is when you see those sci-fi things where they're using centrifugal force and spinning. But I think I read something recently that an analysis of

what it would require to make enough centrifugal force to create artificial gravity would be so outrageous amounts of energy that it would take and you'd have to spin so fast that it wouldn't even matter. In fact, on the size of a space station like the International Space Station, if you made that round and you spun it, the way the gravitational force would work is that

because it's so small compared to like a planet, that your feet would be experiencing significantly more gravitational forces than your head. And so you would have all this weird disorientation. It would not be good for you. Oh, wow. I could see that what goes with you. Who does the expanse does this?

They're big, rotating, shipy stuff you go more toward the center and you more have the idea is that you have more gravity or no if you go more toward the center you get no gravity less yeah yeah and then the belters they're screwed because they live on

on asteroids which have some gravity but it's very little so their bones and muscle mass are all effed up and they go to Earth and they get crushed on it's a magnet shoes on the expanse or what sounds like magnet shoes when they walk like yeah everything there's no carpet there's no carpet

in that future. It's all magnitude. No carpet, right. Metallic carpet. Sure. So when a lander, lunar lander has to get off the moon, obviously they don't have the, they don't need,

and they don't have the kind of rocket situation that we need on Earth for them to be able to leave the atmosphere. So the lander itself is basically all it is, right? It's just like a rocket built into the lander that goes back up and then it connects back up to the, uh the main unit orbiting i can't remember what that one's called but you know the main unit sure yes i've seen apollo 11

well that was the plan um they they uh they actually don't when they landed on the moon they just took the the thing that they landed on the moon with they they didn't they didn't rendezvous with anything oh they didn't that that was the thing that went back to earth was the lander it's funny that you say that though because one of the early plans was to create like a lunar orbiter that would

that would then detach a lander and then it would rendezvous back up with the orbiter and it would go off but but they scrapped that because it was going to be it was going to take too long and we wanted to beat the right. I wonder if that was something that I saw in for all mankind that I just assumed was yeah was what

what you actually did but yeah you're right the the rocket on the lander that is leaving the moon, that rocket needs to be significantly smaller than the one, the huge giant rocket that escapes from Earth. Because you have

to, so you, to be in orbit, it actually is, you need to shoot it straight up, and that takes a lot of force, right? You've seen videos or whatnot of rocket launches from Earth, and those are gigantic rocket.

Yeah. And the big giant ones, the solid rocket boosters that fall off of some of the launchers. Those are the ones that are just getting you straight up and then the other ones are doing the rest of the work.

But it takes for every five meters that a satellite that's in orbit falls towards the earth, it has to travel 8,000 meters

horizontally in order to continue to stay in orbit. So that is how much for so you think there's a lot of force yeah you think that a lot of force is necessary to launch you straight up so much more of the energy of getting into orbit is just pushing you horizontally into orbit it's a lot of energy that's required so that's the real problem actually with getting something into orbit around the moon so like a golf ball you could hit it you might even be able to shoot it, like hit it straight up and away from the moon pretty far, but you're not going to get that into orbit because you need to launch it horizontally as well to get into

orbit. In fact, it would take, you'd have to be able to go ahead. That's what I was picturing was like you would hit it not straight up, but you would hit it at, okay, here's the scenario. Strongest man on earth. We fly him up to the moon. Okay. Lots of upper body strength. Just a monster of a dude. Whoever it is. I don't know who it is. It's the rock, but sure, it could be the rock. Whoever whoever can really swing that golf club. Put a rock on the moon. Right. So he gets up there and

you know, we remind ourselves that a lot of that momentum and strength is based on the gravity that he lives in. So it's going to behave differently up there. But let's just say we've got the strongest dude and he hits it as hard as he can at, let's say, a 35 to 45 degree

angle. Sure. Is it I mean, is it possible that that thing could just... If it was just the right angle, just and then kind of clip out of orbit because, oh, it hit it so hard, it just couldn't hold, it couldn't pull back down. Like, it could happen, right? It's a possible thing?

No? So the short answer is no. Damn it. Because just to get into orbit around the moon, I did some math earlier. I pulled out, dusted off the old TIE. 89 calculators. Nice, wow.

Yeah, that's very good. And did some math just to get into what you would call low moon orbit, let's say, because you know there's low Earth orbit, but just to get into orbit around the moon, you would need to hit the golf ball

at about 1.7 kilometers per second. Oh, geez. So that's really fast. You could machine that, right? We could machine it, but we can't get a dude to do it, right? Maybe we could machine it. I don't, I don't know. How fast does a bullet go? I don't know. Well, at some point, you're going to shatter the ball because enough force would not,

you know, it's not going to be able to stand it. The ball isn't as aerodynamic, right? It's like a missile or as a bullet or that sort of thing. So good point. So maybe we need the rock to go up and hit a bullet with a golf club. That's all we're asking for. It's all we can ask for. All right, but what if, okay, knew what if. I know you didn't do the math on this, but I'm on the moon and I got my, I got my 30-a-6, which I don't actually own. But I got a big old hunting rifle, okay? Yeah. And I'm like, all right, this is going to be good.

Or let's say it's a, you know, a 50 caliber freaking sniper gun that's meant for distance and, you know, velocity and speed and everything. So I'm laying on my back. I got this gun and I'm aiming it straight up, right at the earth even. It's never going to hit it. But you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, ah, I'm going to get Tokyo or whatever. Bang. Can that leave?

Or will that eventually? go whirr and then fall down. Just some fast Googling real fast. It looks like, and probably different bullets travel different speeds of course, but around 1.5 kilometers per second. So you're almost there to get off the moon. Okay.

But to get into low Earth orbit, you need to go significantly fast, 9.4 kilometers per second. Wow. So, and that's just low Earth orbit. So there's a difference between escape, so you guys were talking about escape velocity earlier this week. There's a

between escape velocity and getting into orbit. Escape velocity actually means how fast you need to be going to escape the gravitational influence of Earth and now be under the influence of something else. Right. And no longer be being pulled towards the Earth.

And that's a lot more. So it takes 9.4 kilometers per second to get into low Earth orbit, but it takes 11.2 kilometers per second to get into escape Earth. Interesting. Okay.

Everything is really complicated in space, too, because you're always moving. Even if you don't feel like you're moving, you're always moving. And so every time you want to... So this is interesting. Let's say you're in circular orbit around the Earth and you want to go to the moon because that's the first thing you have to do to get to the moon. You think you just point at the moon and shoot. But you...

That's the farthest. You're not going to hit the moon if you do that because the moon is moving. The Earth is moving. Everything's moving. So first you get into an orbit around the Earth, and then what you do, it's called a homin transfer, and you have to continually make adjustments to your orbit to make the orbit extend farther and farther away from the Earth until you finally intersect with the moon.

So, and the way that's done is you actually don't point away from the Earth to do that. you actually point straight in the direction that you're currently going because remember I told you how you get into orbit is you go forward fast enough that you're going to miss the earth well if you go after you're doing that if you continue to go forward even faster then you just miss the earth even more and you fall further away from the earth on the other side yeah and so if you do that fast enough to where when you fall away from earth on the other side you will then intersect with the moon's sphere of influence then you can get to the moon. Interesting. That's why it takes so much damn fuel and everything else to get it done. Yeah. Yeah. So now you start to understand why it takes

so much fuel to do anything in space. Yeah. Do you think the penis rocket people have to put a little extra fuel in there to get Shatner up there, do you think? Just a couple extra pounds of fuel, maybe?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just saying. Especially because he's going to try to start taking, he's going to take control, he's going to try to grab the controls and start a, you know, calling for different people to be beamed up here and there and all kinds of stuff. Sure. He's going to mess things up.

Yeah, I'm excited for that. They really should have, oh, I saw something great. What was it? It was a meme where it showed the announcement of Shatner, or maybe it was that rocket going up, the penis rocket. And then Khan is a shot of Khan sitting in his little cockpit making comments about how Kirk's, you know, still tasking him or, whatever it was great it was great i'm doing a terrible job explaining it but it was it was awesome all all right well all right so the answer is no no golf ball sorry everybody it's not going to happen you can hit it really far the truth is you can hit it far i'm sure but the truth is actually really

interesting i think because all these orbital mechanics are fascinating to a nerd like me but but i think it's like there's a lot we don't that we take for granted about how things move on earth versus because every time you apply force in one direction you have to consider that you're already moving in a certain direction because you're in space there's not a lot of like friction going on up there. In fact, it's if you've played

asteroids, the you know, video game. It's kind of like that. When you're going in one direction in asteroids, if you turn 90 degrees and go and start going in that direction, you're still going to be moving in the direction you were going in. It's just now you're also. It's just now you're

also going in a different direction. So you have to counter that force. It's all, and that's how it is in space. So you have to consider all that stuff. That's why those, I really do like that the, the expanse books in particular in the show as well, but they adhere to, the science fiction comes out of like rigorous science fact. So they won't, they'll make some jumps. And those leaps are based on, you know, fun story ideas and tropes and things. But, but most of it is grounded in, like, the ships are going to do most of their burn going backwards. Yeah. Because that's kind of how it's going to have to work.

There's no such thing as meeting in space with a Klingon bird of prey and the enterprise facing each other exactly straight up as if they're on the same plane. Like all of that kind of stuff. I love when they do that because... And that is how it is for real. Like when you go to the moon, I just explained you do, you have to intersect with the moon's sphere of influence. But if that's all you do,

You will go around the moon and come back to somewhere near Earth. So what you have to do is you have to get out to the moon and then, like you just said, turn around and start burning your thrusters to slow down. Right. So that you'll stay inside the moons. It's the same when we're going to Mars. You're shooting at it. And then once you get close enough, you turn around and start slowing down so you don't overshoot and come back. Well, it's exciting times for all of us.

We're going to get up there and do some golf. Shatner's going to what They're just doing a low Earth orbit thing Is that the plan? Do you know? Yeah, that's all. I don't even know. I don't even think they do orbit, do they? Was it just going to they peek out and then go back down?

Yeah. I know when they sent those four amateur astronauts up recently that they were in orbit, weren't they? They were in orbit because they stayed up for a couple of days, I think. They went further than the, yes, right. They were. Shatner maybe just popping in and popping out. The thing is, how long do you really want to be in a ship with Jeff Bezos with that laugh of his?

Seriously. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, when you're in space, your muscles start to deteriorate, and I don't know if Shetner has many left. So you don't want that to have. He's going to get up there and go, what's the deal with the left side of the earth? And you're just going to hear over there in the corner. It's like, get me off of this. thing.

What happens if I push this button? Don't push it. Free shipping, free shipping. All right. Well, we've done it. We've explained everything. And that means we're done. Bobby,

why don't you tell the fine folks where All Around Science can be found and why it's going to be good for their scientific health to check it out? All Around Science. You can download it or go to our website all around science.com. Just look for All Around Science.

We just, we're about to record tonight, as we often do on Thursday nights. And so our Monday episode, I'm going to be talking about some things. I'm answering a question from someone that you all know, September, 9 of 12. Oh, cool. Oh. We love her. Yeah, she's nice. Yeah, sent in a, called us, left a message asking about hair care products, because you know how much I love my hair.

Yeah, look at that. It's beautiful. It's lovely. So I'm actually going to answer. It made me take this deep. dive into learning how hair care products work. Because you kind of take it for granted. Like, you just use it and it works and then and everything.

But I decided to figure out, well, well, that's been my position is like, I'm always very skeptical of hair care products because it's like a, it's like a beauty product. And everybody's all anecdotal evidence. Everybody's in marketing and stuff like that, right? So I decided to take a super deep dive. I don't know what these things are you describing. Hair care products. What is this? Hair? Hair. What is hair? Hair. It's what you probably should have used and maybe you'd still have hair. I didn't take good care of my hair. Yeah, that was it. I'm sure. All right. Well, good stuff. Blame the victim. Go check that out. Also, real quick, South Carolina, don't email me. It was a pure joke. I think you guys are great. I really do. I think you guys are awesome. I don't like doing blanket stuff. I'm trying to do less of that. Stereotypes aside, you guys are awesome. You're lucky to have Bobby and Brian Dunaway and all these amazing friends of mine.

It's a beautiful place with beautiful trees. But Lindsey Graham is terrible. Yeah, okay. We'll see. There's one part. There's one part we were right about. All right. We'll see you later.

Okay. Now on to the next thing. What is the next thing? A little bit of news. Yeah. We got time. Yeah. A little bit news.

Here it is. And dance by the light of the moon. It's time for the news. Brought to you by. Brought you by Coverville today at 1 p.m. Mountain Time at Twitch.tv slash Coverville. Hey, three birthdays, three 70-year-olds, people who turn 70 this fall. Chrissy Hind of the Pretenders, Bob Geldof of the Boomtown Rats, and John Cougar Menloencamp. Melanchamp. Wasn't he just John Mellencamp now? What is he now?

He's just John Mellencamp now. When he started out, he was Johnny Cougar, then it was John Cougar, then it was John Cougar Melanchamp, and now just John Mellencamp. But since some of the covers will be of his John Cougar days, I hear you Jack and Diane, there will be, you know, I'll introduce him as John Mellencamp or introduce him like he's going to be on the show. Sure. As if. Anyway, those three and two of them actually collaborated on something. So you'll hear a cover by two of these people, either Chrissy Hind, Bob Geldof, or John Mellencamp, two of them. covering Graham Nash. So that's something to try and figure out between now and then.

Sure. This is all coming up 1 p.m. Mountain Time Twitch.tv slash Coverville. Sounds lovely. Whenever I think of the other guy, not John Millen, Canada. Bob Geldof. Bob Geldof. I just think of the wall. Because isn't he in the wall?

Pink Floyd the wall. Yeah, he plays pink and Pink Floyd the Wall. That's right. And then he was, whenever they were doing all the charity business in the 80s, he was always up front and on the camera going. He was USA for, not USA for Africa. He was Band-Aid, the head of Band-Aid. Band-Aid?

Band-Aid. Band-Aid. I was getting that mixed up with Farmed. Do they know it's Christmas time at all? It's not as bad. No covers of that, obviously, on the show. Because it's not Christmas. No.

Hell no. So there's not Christmas. He's also one of the ugliest people I've ever seen. All right, moving on. He's not an attractive man. No. It's okay. You know, like a lot of those, that era's like British rocker dudes, it's, they're all kind of ugly.

It's fine. Yeah, they are. Yeah. Yeah, it's fine. You guys be who you are. Let's get on to this here story here. There's a rare animal crane who is going to marry a dude at the zoo. Oh, good.

Well, finally, we can finally. I know, right? I feel like we've been waiting for this. And now finally, man can marry bird. Walnut, the white napeed crane. Oh, I love the... Hold on a second. I got to play a thing that I always play.

that Beau said once. Hold on. How about white-naped cranes? Do you need anything? Just yell Walnut. I just like how he'd be. That's great. It's pretty good. She and Chris Crow, not spelled like the bird, but like Russell.

Her beloved zookeeper with an avian-inspired name, have been domestic partners for 14 years, and they're still going strong. By the way, that's much longer than your average celebrity marriage notes this article. That's true. It's true. It worked out pretty good. Like, you know, the other day, I was just thinking of myself. I was watching something where Chris Pratt and the Schwarzenegger lady daughter were, I don't know her name.

We're touting something they're doing. I don't know what it was. And I just right then went, how long do they really have? Well, because we thought it was going to be Chris Pratt and Anna Farris forever, right? Yeah, we thought that was the cute couple. And they were going to never be a part. part and it was going to be great forever. Nope. So what's this deal?

This deal can't. I just, there's no way. Thanksgiving at the Schwarzeneggers. How does that even work? Listen, I think Ryan Reynolds and Blake lively will be together forever. I think you've got the king and queen of the prom right there. And because who are they, who would they ever find to trade up to? Well, I mean, he was, he was, wasn't he married to Black Widow for before? Was he with Scarlet?

Was he with Scarlett Johansson? I mean, I know he was with her, but were they married or were they? They were married. Oh, yeah, they were. So that didn't go well, but that could be her. It could be a her thing. Who knows what these reasons are, but the point is, like, I just don't see it. I can't see Chris Pratt staying.

I don't know why. Just can't see it. It's fine. I'm Star Lord, man. If they do, man, look, if they pull a Tom Hanks, what's her name combo. Rita Wilson. Yeah, if they pull off one of those, that'd be awesome. I'd be really happy for him.

but I just... Yeah. I mean, it all... This could be just a theory of mine. But if you're at different levels, establish different levels, it seems like it's a lot easier to make one of those marriages work than if you're at the same A-list, B-list level, constantly competing. Yeah. But then again, I mean, you know, again, Ryan Reynolds and Blake lively, I would say that they're both upper echelon. Maybe him more so.

I don't know. marriage in Hollywood. Let's see. I'm going to see who has the longest. Who has the longest? You know, you hear about divorces with celebrities because they're celebrities. You don't hear when the people on the block, you know, one block over are getting a divorce. And I don't know how much more, I'm sure it's more just because of the pressures, but how much more are celebrity relationships broken up like that compared to the national average of divorce? Yeah, maybe it's not as close as we think, you know? Maybe it's not. Maybe on the aggregate. Or it's closer than we think.

Or closer than we think is what I mean, yeah. Yeah. Like some of these people, Kirk Douglas, got married and freaking, let's see. Like the 50s. And he was married right up until the minute he died. He did die, right? I think he did. I think he did.

Yeah. Alan Alde has been married to his wife since like 83 or something. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's some, but who is Alan Alde's wife? I mean, she's not a big competing person. Not a star of Alan Alda level. Yeah, you're right. I think that's the key.

I really do think that's the key. And again, it could be, I mean, Kim Kardashian and Kanye West, I would say those were two A-list celebrities, neither of which I'd want to be around for any amount of time whatsoever. Yeah. But there, I mean, that thing's been on the rocks and then back and then the rocks. Like, I don't think that's going to last. Yeah, it's done now. Oh, is it over?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's over, though. I didn't hear. hadn't heard. I think, aren't they? Are they? I don't know. Boy, maybe I need the chat room to say, no, they're back together again, Brian. I haven't checked TMZ in a while, so I have no idea what's going on. So anyway, uh, zookeepers and cranes. The important bit is this, this thing on I&B says Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip until his death were the longest married celebrities of all time, 70 years almost. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Boy, that's hard to count as a celebrity couple, though. I agree. Although, if you really think about the royalty... They were born into celebritydom. It's not like they... They were. But they're the ultimate... Like, royalty in the modern age, like the monarchy, is so stupid.

Yeah. So stupid. But everyone knows who they are. So that's celebrity, right? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you boil it down to its essence.

They're celebrities, but... they're also not really competing for anything like she's trying to get some new queen gig that's true i'm auditioning for a new queen gig uh oh philip quit you cut it out but uh you're going for it too damn it yeah and she's more of the she's more of the celebrity than he is anyway i mean he was always just the bug-eyed weirdo in the back of the car um so this guy's going to marry this crane it's all kind of ceremonial it's not this isn't one of those weird stories where he's, you know, having sex with a crane. That's not the...

Right. They're consummate the marriage? Yeah, it's not that. But the bird loves him and won't go anywhere without him and is completely imprinted on him and is like basically his life mate, so... It's too bad her name is Walnut and not Maris, because then it'd be really funny. It would be really funny.

Maris Crane. Except you can never see her, we'd never get a picture of her. Right, we'd never get a see the crane, yes. Yeah. Final story. This is for our Alaska fans. Amos, if you're listening, this is for you, bud. A group of violent otters is mysteriously attacking people and dogs in Alaska. Oh, no. Oh, no.

Oh, no. State authorities are searching for a group of violent river otters, also known as the Lutra-Kandesis. Canadensis. There you go. Lutra-Canadensis. You did it better than me. That had been mysteriously attacking adults, children, and dogs in Anchorage, Alaska. Three other attacks, including one which injured child were reported across the city in September,

leaving officials from the department there to ask residents to, quote, be alert around local lakes and rivers. This dude's got fang marks on his back thigh. One on his front thigh. Yeah, from otters, from freaking lake otter things. Let's see. This isn't the first time that they've attacked the dogs in the city.

They had incidents in 2009 or 2019. 19 is what I'm looking for there. but the night. Two dogs, one Labradoodle, husky mix, were attacked and pulled under water by otters after swimming in lakes and anchorage. Geez. These otters are dicks.

Oh, kidding. Yeah, dick otters. Is what those are. Is it like a rabid? Like, are they rabbit or something? Like, is there some sort of medical condition? Because, you know, the otters at SeaWorld seem kind of nice. They seem friendly.

Yeah, they seem nice. They just crack open shells on their chest and smile at you. I'm looking at him here, some lake otters. Yeah, they're still adorable, but apparently these things are mean. Oh, they look like little puppy dogs. Look at this, chat. Remember I'm going to show a couple of these. Okay.

Look at these here. Look at these here. How could you not like these guys? How could you not like them otters? Yeah. He's like a little lake otter. Look at this guy coming up. You'd give him a little piece of your grilled cheese or whatever you're eating.

Sure. It's so cute. Yeah, sea lions and otters are both adorable, but reportedly, will tear you to pieces and swallow you whole. Wow. Watch out. All right. We're going to take a break when we come back.

My sister Wendy will be here. We got quite the email today. So we're going to deal with that. That'll be fun. Cool. That'll be after this song selection. Brian, will you explain what it is, please?

We are going to London for this one. And a band called, you wouldn't expect this in London, but they're a band called Los Bichos. What? What? Los Bichos. They are a four,

piece, all female, like a surf guitar, retro surf guitar sounding group. These guys are great. I don't know why I haven't heard of these guys before, but I'm in love already. Well, here's why I haven't heard of them. They're releasing their debut album in February 2022. I mean, we've got time. You know, you've got time to prepare for their debut album coming out in like four months. Five months.

What is that? Five months. Anyway, weird. They have a lead single that's just. come out. It's called Las Penderas and a really cool sort of retro spy TV, fake TV show intro kind of thing, kind of like the Beastie Boys sabotage, but, you know, featuring these four women in Los Bichos. It's great. This song is great. It's Las Penderas from the upcoming album. Let the festivities begin. Here are Los Bichos.

We're going to be able to be. So, you know, I'm going to be able to be, you know, and I'm going to be. I'm going to be able to be. We're going to be able to be. I'm going to be able to be. I'm going to be able to be able to be it. I'm going to be able to be. I'm going to be.

I'm going to be. And so. I'm going to be able to be able to be able to be sure. I'm going to be able to be on the end of it. I'm going to be able to be. Hey, you guys. What's going on? You know, it's fall. It's fall. Do you feel it? We could all use a stiff breeze. This episode's brought to you by Blue Chew. Guys, listen, confidence can take you pretty far in life. I can help you in the bedroom as well, especially when it comes to stepping up to the plate. Well, that's where Blue Chew comes in. Blue Chew is unique.

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is brown sugar, you're a freak. I bought the kind of beans you have to soak. These had better be the best goddamn beans ever. All right, we're back, everybody. again. That's song again, Las Panthers by the London band Los Bichos. There are people in the chat who do like the...

I like Brown Sugar Pop-Tarts, too. Now, does she mean you're a freak in a bad way or in a good way? I think in a bad way. Oh, well, then I disagree. I like... She's wrong. I like brown sugar. I used to like them anyway.

Yeah, Pop-Tarts in general. I don't know what they are. They're not good for you. They're barely food, you know? Just out of curiosity Pop-Tart Brown Sugar Pop-Tart I'm turning

in one of those annoying assholes that has to lick up calorie counts for anything I know I do that too One pouch of brown sugar 410 calories

That's the third of I should be eating every day A 410 for a single Pop-Tart No for one pouch That's two Pop-Tarts Okay two Pop-Tarts still still that's meant to be a serving right that's one one serving is a pouch yeah yeah that's for

that's for little kids who climb walls and beat up stuff and break furniture that's ridiculous or just people with better metabolism than this 52 year old yeah i don't have that anymore i can't do that anymore man i've been hardcore last few days and um it's uh it's actually it's weird i have more energy amazing yeah you do what the doctor says exercise more and eat better totally i got on the bike yesterday i have a new thing um where i get on the bike with uh the big screen in front of me the projector screen and oh shoot hold on hold on i i f'd up it's me hold on okay that was dumb oh there we go no what happened is windy calls or i call wendy she doesn't answer the first time so while you're talking i go to re-ring

her and right as I click it, she joins the call. She comes on and you hang up on both of us. So we sat and chatted for a while. We're all caught up. Yeah, you guys were good friends. Yeah, it's fantastic. All right. Sorry about that. That was done. Anyway, no, he got on the bike and did YouTube and I alternate. Like, when I change videos, I have to change levels of resistance on the bike. So, you know, the longer the video, the better or worse, depending on what level of resistance on that. Yeah, no kidding. Well, that's cool. I'm glad you're doing that. So it is Wendy. Wendy's my sister. Yeah, she's here. I got to play a thing for her. Hold on. Where is it? Okay, here it is. No, that's not it. Where is it? Why don't I have it? Everyone knows it's Wendy. Everyone knows. My sister, Wendy, an actual therapist, someone who helps people all the time with their real problems. And for whatever reason is the most academic of the entire Johnson clan. She's here joining us, as she does on Thursdays. And that's good to have you back. Hi, Wendy. How the heck are you? I'm good. I'm good. How are you guys?

That's good. We're good. I think we're good. Are we good? We're good. We're good. Yeah, we're doing good. Hey, you're, I was I going to say, I had a thing to tell you. Oh, crap. I can't remember what it is. Oh, I know what it is. I put up this video. I just wanted to share this with you. I put up this video on Facebook and everywhere, but in particular Facebook is that's

where she found it. But I put up this video just remarking at these giant skeletons, I guess you can get him at Spirit Halloween or whatever, those stores. But they're like three times bigger than a human being. Oh, really? Yeah. They have big blinky LED. Yeah.

And they had them up on this, on this person's, their condo on top of the balcony up there. And they're just freaky, just big, tall things. And I was like, whoa, I imagine what these look like when they weren't dead. You know, making just some dumb commentary on the video. Yeah. And I get a text from Tara, our sister. Oh, boy. I don't hear very often.

I get a text from her that she goes, are you okay? You sounded really sick in the last video that I saw. And I said, I did? I go, what do you mean? And she's like, you sounded like you were really sick or something was wrong. And so I said, well, I guess I appreciate the concern, but I sent her a quick voice memo and said, hey, look at me. I'm talking normal.

This is me. Everything's good. And she says, yeah, I was just worried. I'm glad everything's okay. And I just was the oddest interaction I've ever had with her. That's funny. Well, Claire even said the video where you had a stroke midway. Oh, it doesn't have a stroke.

It was just me being goofy. Like, I can't believe how many people, I guess two. Two people saw that video and thought I was losing it. and I don't know why it was just me goofing off anyway that's not the point what's the point Wendy's here we're going to do a question hey Wendy this is a hard one are you ready for this hard question yeah yeah before we get into that because it'll be it's going to be so dark and sad it's heavy yeah uh I have two things to say all right real quick light and funny one is and I sent you the little link I I'm just going to ask

listeners if you guys would do me a little favor all right so you know what I'm talking about Oh, the thing you mentioned yesterday. Yeah, 100% of these guys will do this. Yeah. Okay. So Pete is a fourth grader and his elementary school does this like fundraising thing. And I could not hate fundraisers more. I know.

I hate them too. So every time we just write a check to the school for whatever he has to do, you know, it's sort of like, please try to earn $30. So we're like, here's $30. Like, I am not going to hate it. You need to sell 100 boxes of Girl Scout cookies. Okay. please let me buy 100 boxes. I bought 100 and I'll hand them to my neighbors.

Like, I can't stand it. Anyway, this thing comes out. He loves it. He's so excited. And it's like a physical fitness and leadership training. And, you know, I'm always grumbling. Like, how much money does the school actually get, you know, all that grumpiness? And so anyway, he says to me, hey, no, Abe says while we're talking,

Abe goes, hey, do you remember that time? All the TMS listeners wrote in and voted for my story. in Sweden. Do you remember this? Yeah, yeah. I remember that. Yeah. Right, it was a story content. It ended up like crashing their website for multiple times. Yeah. And then his whole class got to go to Denmark

and go to this super fun water park because they got the most boats. Anyway, so A brings this up and Pete has this look on his face like, Mom, do you think you can ask your friends? And I was like, I said, yeah, but, okay, so here's here's my request scott has the link just if you could go in and give him 50 cents here i'm going to put it in the chat room right now just whatever whatever you can spare and i'm really kidding like not real money people just you know be funny yeah um and then he could just have a couple

sponsors that would be here then i'll write a check for whatever's left here it is chat that explains everything that's that it's about and so you can get all the details but i just put yeah it's nice and cute and I'm just he just he called me on that like you helped my older brother with your fandoms I'm like um okay no I think this is good and Peter Peter's a rad kid he deserves all the best ever so this is a cool thing so it's my for those listening and aren't in the chat room today it's my apex event.com okay that's easy to remember my apex event.com here's the hard part slash F1KJZM. Okay, it doesn't really spell anything.

It's just a random thing. It's just his little page. It's just his little page. And that picture is literally like two years ago. He doesn't look like that at all anymore. No, you should see his hair, man. His hair is glorious. I know, not his hair is.

He's a really sweet kid. And if you want to blow them out and have every other parent go, what the frick happened? This would be the way to do it. All right. So get in there. And then I will make him swear to not tell anyone about it. And just was like, no, I just got these.

Yeah. But imagine, you know, 50 cents, a buck, whatever. Just go destroy the site. That's what we're looking for. All right. Wouldn't that be fun? Okay, thanks. That's all I want to say.

I'll set up a tiny URL for it, by the way. If you go to tiny URL.com slash I hate fundraisers, then it'll automatically take you to Peter's page. That's awesome. That's awesome. Tiny URL. com slash I hate fundraiser. I hate fundraisers.

Perfect, Brian. Freaking perfect. All right. That's amazing. All right. Go check it out. Do that. So now on to real things.

Yes. Let's make Peter's life cool. All right. Let's move on now to, and remember, this is Peter who had his guts on the outside when he was born. Remember that? They're now on the inside. They're on the inside. And his belly button's weird.

So let's support him and give him what do you need. All right. Let's get to this question. It's kind of a hard one. But I think it's a good one to handle. I told the person who wrote it that we would be talking about it today. so hopefully they're in the chat room oh they are good okay uh i'll keep it anonymous says hi there i didn't know if i should write you here or on the tms email and that probably doesn't matter to this

i just wanted to let you know that my 15 year old nephew michael took his own life today could you please ask windy how i should be dealing with this he has had a history of mental illness and my brother and sister-in-law had been trying to get him the best help possible for the last few years as they are quite well off monetarily uh but it was it just wasn't enough i told him all the time if he ever needed anyone to talk to. I was always a phone call away, no matter what time of day or night and no judgment whatsoever. I'm sitting here shocked, sad, and most of all angry. I'm angry at him. I'm angry at myself. I'm angry at whatever deity runs the universe. I feel guilty that I'm so angry at him. My elderly parents probably won't

make it through this. They are not in the best of health. I just wanted to ask you and Brian and Wendy, what do I do here? So that's a rough one. And, man, like suicide and how it affects families and especially when you know they're young kids and you have tried everything it sounds like they've done a lot here um especially i don't know there's a there's an uncle thing that i kind of relate to here where they like i have some kids in you know extended family who are nieces or nephews to me who they'll come to they'll talk to me more freely than they'll talk to their parents does that make sense like they just think I'm the cool uncles, they want to talk to me and tell me stuff.

And so it would be, if one of those nephews or nieces, if this happened to me, I'd be, I'd be devastated in a way that would feel like, not that it's worse or better or anything that anybody else involves, especially a media family and that sort of thing, but there is a special kind of bond you have with your nieces and nephews if you're close to them, and I just think this sounds rough. So anyway, all of that said, what do you want to do here? Yeah. I mean, first, just our sympathies. I mean, how difficult this is. And to just really validate the feeling, right, of being sad, shocked and angry. Angry makes so much sense. And what's so hard in grief is that, you know, most of us aren't really great with understanding or having a good relationship with our anger. So that it, you know, when it shows up, with such force in such a difficult time,

it can be really alarming. And we can feel really bad about it. And so it's, but it's there. And it's a normal response to this shock and this loss. And, you know, and we all will have regrets. If anything happened to anyone suddenly, right? I think the only kind of death and dying, any of us can say we have no regrets are when we had long,

time knowing it was coming and we were prepared, which even doesn't happen sometimes in those cases, right? I think it's very human to feel all of these things. So it's rough. So he brought up a couple of things. And I think maybe some framework around this would be helpful. Suicide is really tricky. It's tricky because if you've never had suicidal thoughts, and by the way, we're going to, we're

And usually, Scott, you've seen TV nowadays when there's any themes of suicidality or hints to suicidality, they always put like a reference to the helpline, national helpline and suicide prevention stuff and references to getting access to mental health because it can really trigger other people, just the discussion of it. So we should have that as a warning that you, we got too far in before we warned. Yeah, it's good that we're doing it now because some of those TV shows wait until the show's over and then go, what you just saw was me, do, do it, and I think that's the wrong end to put it on. You need to tack it on the top and just get it out there early and then, you know, then tell your story. Right. And because for a couple reasons, it's very triggering to any survivors. And there are more and more survivors or they're connected to people who are who have taken their lives. And so, you know, it's a lot of folks. and sometimes just adjacent to people as well, but, you know, I think nowadays most people know somebody or somebody's family member that has taken their life. So there's that. And then there's also those who are having thoughts. And so I'm going to talk about that in a minute here, but for those having thoughts, in fact, sometimes it can be somewhat not contagious in the same way we think of like a germ spreading, but that someone, I've been having suicidal thoughts and then someone

I know takes their life, people can respond to that very differently. Some, it can be sort of a strange wake-up call to the realities of their thinking and they may seek help. Other times it feels like, oh, this person had the courage to do it and then there's following that can happen. And so that's why the warnings are important and also recognizing there are, there is national health, thought lines and other resources that people can reach out to if they're having these kinds of thoughts. So let's back up really quick and talk about him. And then I'll get into how sort of suicidal thinking works and often what happens there. So this is a young kid who's, you know, family sounds like they were really trying to get him the best possible help. And he still

managed to find a way to take his life. And that is really devastating. And, No one's story is worse than another. And I think sometimes that happens, right? When someone passes away, we're like, oh, oh, they died of cancer. And we're like, oh, and we have a response to that, right? That's different when they say, oh, they got a car accident. We have another response to that. Or they died in their sleep and we don't know why.

Do we lose it? Oh, no, do we lose her? Oh, there we're back. No, that things happening again where you're calling through my phone. Oh. That's weird. That is weird. I don't know why it does that.

Once you've answered. Once you've answered, it shouldn't, I don't know why it's stupid. I know, it's so odd. Anyway, sorry. So going back to like everyone, we all have our different responses to different things. And some are more sort of common for us to think or feel about a certain way someone has passed away. And death by suicide is particularly fraught, right? There's stigma, depending on what sort of different social or religious groups you

belong to there is really bad ways people handle this and others um you know sometimes you can feel very isolated and alone so it's really tricky and so here he is you know this is his nephew who he obviously cares a lot about he's got his own grief his family's grief um and then who knows how everyone talks about it um and that was just one thing i wanted to point out he didn't he didn't mention this but you know having someone in the family dynamic pass away really shows, it's kind of like putting a fire under whatever the dynamic is. Yeah. Right.

And then you add death by suicide as a very complicated version of that. And things sort of show up that can be tricky. So to be gentle with yourself as some of those dynamics show up. And it sounds like, I mean, he did reference that his elderly parents are really struggling and they're not good health. Sure. Just the fear and the anger. and all of that. So it's really tough. I would highly recommend that he join a group.

It's one of the most powerful things you can do as a survivor of suicide is it really helps you not feel alone, process through the anger. Lots of people will have been in your shoes and are in your shoes and have passed walking through your shoes. So there's hope and understanding and it can just be a really powerful. tool. There's lots of online ones. There's just many, many, many options. Okay. So all of that said, don't be in this alone. And also grieving with this kid's mom and dad is tricky as well. Like you can't just plan on all the grieving you do just chatting with

them if, you know, because they're going to be all over the map for a good long while, if not their lives. um losing a child's just unlike any other thing and so you know really finding a way to work through some of your anger in safe places that don't require them to carry the burden of your anger and and i'm saying this i'm trying to be careful about this because yes you need to grieve together um and your anger is not a burden but it can be when you are the parents the grieving parents Sure. And so just make sure you're getting understanding where you need to, maybe from your own partner or from groups or from other other ways.

And again, the anger is very, very normal. The group thing, can you just look for stuff? Like, if somebody's in the situation, you're like, well, okay, I live in the city. I do, like, how do they find out the best support groups in their area? Well, you know, they could probably, it's not, it's not, they're not going to be too hard to find. They're probably run through any clinic or your health insurance would have options to send you to. Many communities have specialty organizations that work with survivors of suicide and, you know, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find. If he really struggles, he could reach out to me and I can help him figure that out to find to find something.

there's a lot. There's a lot online. That is the one I don't know how you vet so well other than if it's through a national sort of repeatable organization. So NAMI is great and can probably probably have some resources there. I know quite a few of international resources. What's interesting is I recently went through a suicide prevention three-day training and the same stats we have from 2020 are actually quite surprising. So violent crime went up everywhere, but suicide went down. Interesting. Yeah, which I don't think it was predictable.

Was it proportional? Like the other one goes up, the other goes down at the same rate? No, not well, oh, good question. I don't know if that's necessarily the case. I do know this, though. That's just this 2020 is the only year it's gone down in the United States. everywhere else in the world, every other major industrialized

nation, it has been falling consistently over the last 10, 15 years. We're the only country that it's going up. That's no good. Doing great. No. I was going to something else about car accidents.

Like we're at an all time high or something of car wrecks since 2020? Yeah. It's because everyone's like on edge and has only one inch rope together. Yeah, everyone's used to driving without other people on the road and going nuts on the road. Yeah, that's probably true.

That's probably true. Yeah. So, you know, one of the ways to understand that is, well, we won't. Never mind. I won't get into that. But just there's a lot of interesting things in research and understanding what suicidality is and how it comes about and how to treat it and what to do. And one of the biggest things is to start to essentially help everybody.

understand some basics of suicide prevention, right? So what they found is that if you can ask a person some direct questions about suicide that most often they will answer correctly and you can then know to give them help. Because what's so devastating about these stories over and over and over again tend to be that it's a surprise. I mean, it sounds like this kid was on the radar that he was. isn't doing well mentally. Yeah. But that, you know, not knowing about that they've had, they have a plan and they're

going to go do something, you know, that's often the surprise. And there's a reason for that. When folks are having suicidal thoughts and, and this is where the trigger warning really is, everyone, okay, which is you, they will just come and they kind of just start. And often it's something rough happens and it just feels like. oh, just be better if I wasn't here. That's kind of the beginning of how some of these thoughts start to accumulate. And they can get more and more severe. And often when someone is having the suicidal thinking, they're not telling anyone, right?

The vast majority of people are not saying this out loud because it scares them and it scares others. And so they're not going to do that. And especially if they are adjacent to someone who's taken their life, that they can see the sort of damage or record. that was left behind and you know they're they're not going to share this um and so that holding it in not saying anything and hopefully sometimes people will go and get treatment at that stage often they just hope it goes away um and or they're not really alarmed by it yet because it's just more of a feeling of like ugh she don't want to be here yeah um and then as it progresses and this is where And this is what I wanted to bring up today.

And I don't know if this is helpful for this guy. And I hope it is, and I apologize if it is not. But there is some, a lot of relief, I think, that comes to survivors when they understand, and this isn't everybody, but as a general rule, what sort of happens to a person's thinking as they get further and further down this road of suicidality and they start planning and then they eventually do the plan and many people are successful

especially if they have access to guns or means that are they plan to the point where there's no way no one can help them and so how do they get from just like living their life and the thought of taking their life would terrify them to a point where they do

a very common path is this beginning to see that they are a burden on everyone else and a real belief that other people are better off without them and that's when we get into really serious territory and it's because it's really truly that they believe if they end their life

everyone is better and of course when you're a survivor all you're thinking is everything is worse right and how and I have heard these words countless times how could they be so selfish because they have just wrecked all of our lives and they they did this themselves and so this must be a selfish act but what actually it is and many folks who have gotten near to that place and that I have worked with and have gotten help and recovered they will say it is so real it's so real to them that it's better that they were dead that their mother

would be happier that their children would be better everyone is better off it is it is where their brain goes to as total truth now think about that for a moment if your brain had told you that and it was so convincing and it felt so real think of what you might do yeah right you might it would take a lot of courage actually um and and so that flip in the script that our brain does It's very fascinating. You know, I've thought a lot about this. How does our whole biology override itself, right? What organism tells itself to die?

Because isn't survival the whole point, right? But it requires the brain to get into this very upside down state for that to ever happen. So suicide prevention, what's so powerful about it is that it's actually fairly simple. It's because of the secrecy and the quiet. it and the holding it all in and thinking you're the only one who thinks this and and um what is wrong with me and and not getting help and not saying it out loud um it perpetuates this and it gets worse and worse right so often when you when someone is coming into an emergency room or someone is being you know everyone's alarmed we're pretty far down this path um and that that suicide

prevention it'd be great if we can you know get more information out there and help people recognize some of these patterns earlier and know that there is good help for them because the question so let me let me say what the questions are and this takes a lot of guts i mean i'm a therapist i've literally had a thousand conversations where i've had to determine if this person was suicidal or not um and i still find myself going i mean they're not saying anything that makes them seem like they might be but just i don't know i got to do it right right they're literally paying me to do it. And it's still hard. So that's all I'm telling you is that everyone in the world this should be difficult to some extent because this is so personal and difficult to ask

somebody. But these questions are so powerful for this very reason is that when someone is having suicidal thinking and you ask them, are you having suicidal thoughts? That's the first question. And they, you know, obviously people can lie to you, right? But in my case, that really happens and they'll say yes i am and the the next question is have do you have a plan like is is this are these thoughts building to you have an idea of how you would want to end your life yeah and if the answer is yes to that then that's that is when if you are not qualified i have other tools that i have access to um i don't have to rush them to the hospital that minute but you know if you are a family member or a lay person who doesn't have any idea about this and

you are suspicious that there's some strange things happening and this person's not okay and you ask those questions and they give you affirmative answers or they're not answering, then it is time to get them help immediately. Yeah. And so calling a hotline, walking it through with a specialist, understanding what you ought to do, you know, get support. Don't don't think you're doing this on your own. But those can absolutely save lives because those are the things that are haunting them and going through their brain, waking them up at night, and they're relentless.

And they're suffering. And so sometimes we just sort of, we don't often try to get in each other's heads. I mean, maybe you guys do. I don't in my private life, right? But getting inside somebody's head this way can be one of our most powerful tools.

Now, obviously this guy, and this is why I hesitated going into all of this because it doesn't help his situation because this has already taken place and it sounds like this kid had all these professionals already in his life and people doing their best and there are other versions of this than the one I just described.

But all the time, there is some type of dialogue in a person's head where ending their life just seems to make the most sense and gives them actually psychological relief. And so that's when we get into dangerous territory and need to have tools and asking the right questions. In fact, you know, part of this suicide prevention thing is this is the first time in the 20 years I've been practicing that it's free. And it was like invite everyone you know.

And these were the world's experts. Like, we need everyone to know how to do this. And there's some just good training out there for leg folk and also for organizations and companies and just, you know, for just everyone to get a little better at knowing how to prevent suicide and just you know better and then you also when you start to experience any of those things because it can happen to anybody that you know you can get help it isn't it isn't rare it isn't as rare as we all think it is it's that most people don't end up taking their lives but most people have had these thoughts and maybe they figure out how to get help or to stop or whatever but

normalizing that this is this strange part of being a human and what can we do to save lives is it's kind of the key yeah for the first time ever my our primary doctor physician person this week at a doctor's appointment they introduced some new you know they all have questionnaires before you go in there are you experience any of these things or you know all that stuff you just fill it out um they had a whole mental health sheet that they do now and then it's not even what they specialize in there at all But it's like, have you had thoughts of self-harm? Have you experienced, you know, massive depression episode, you know, like all this

sorts of stuff? Yeah. And even though I'd filled it out at the end, they still ask some of those questions in the pre-evaluation or whatever. And I was a little surprised, but I guess that's probably more and more a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and where it's a great touch point for people's lives, right? and there is a trust in maybe a doctor that wouldn't be there for a random neighbor asking you or whatever.

And so it's a great preventative measure. They do it with child abuse and food insecurity. So when I go to the doctor with my kids, the questions they ask, and they ask my kids separately from me, and then they ask about just do we have heat and food and, you know, just all of the things to try to, you know, it's a good central location. often to do that. And that's going to be more the norm.

If you haven't experienced that yet, as sooner or later, your physician offices will do that and other places, I feel like the dentist is getting close to asking things like that. Like, it's going to be a lot of like those touch points that we can catch things earlier

because it's so much like most things that's easier to treat earlier, harder to treat later because the brain really gets used to those neural pathways. It can be really tricky. So going back to the emailer and his grief. So if I just sort of summarize, like understanding more about suicide

is going to be very helpful. So go to good sources. I have a friend whose father just took his life and she was so angry and she was saying all the words that I'm sure this guy has said and just how, you know, I'm so mad and why didn't he tell me and, you know, I could have helped.

and all of that regret and stuff, that's very normal part of grieving this type of loss. But I've watched her as she has understood and she's attended a group and she got a therapist and her anger is morphing into understanding and compassion. And it's really, you can't just jump there. You can't just be told to go, well, can't you have compassion or just jump there?

You have to work through these feelings. And her understanding of what suicidal thinking is how her father got to that place trying to understand and hear other people's stories has just been crucial to healing and so I highly highly recommend that and and also you know allowing yourself a good amount of time to feel and to understand this and and to grieve and support your family and and be very gentle with yourself as you do this because this is incredibly difficult but you're also not alone there's a lot of folks who can support you in that yeah well i i i hope this happens it's funny when i first got the email i wasn't sure who it was

but now i know who it is and it's funny the more personal it gets the more the more i think brian and i get affected by it and i'm really sure really pulling for this guy we already like him a lot and want him to to get some catharsis here if he can find it and i hope his family can find some as well. Let us know. Give us a follow-up. Let us know how things went and we'll, you know, we'll do nothing but hope for the best for you. Wendy, I think that's it. We'll do this again next week. It might not be as hard of a subject, but it'll be something. And we'll do it right here on the show. RealSteps.org doing anything soon that people should be aware of? Absolutely. This is very crucial advertisements. Everyone listen up.

all right uh yes we are starting october 18th you have till midnight october 17th to sign up at six weeks this time and it is going to be amazing like i i am always kind of excited but i am so excited for this one and i we've already have a bunch of people signed up a lot of new people who um think it's a diet program it is not it is so much better it is so much better I can't wait. And then lots of returning folks who are going to do some mentoring and some awesome stuff. So it's going to be a blast. So sign up October 17th is the deadline.

And you know what? I love 1159 signups. I don't care. Be very last. But yeah, check it out. Real steps. That's great. You're like me.

I do this thing where I'll kind of hint at a thing, but not really say what it is, like how great it is. But you'll have to sign up to find out. I do that all the time. People call it polling a Johnson. so you just pulled the Johnson. Nice job. He did good. Well, I mean, I'll tell you what it is, except then what's the surprise? Yeah, you want the surprise. Exactly. No, I'm with you.

Solidarity here. It's a Johnson thing. We should die to our graves. It is a Johnson. Dad would do that. Yeah. Did she ever do that? Mom, kind of, dad would do it for sure. We have issues. Yeah, we do. We need counselors. What are we doing? All right. Hey, Wendy. Have a great week. We'll see you next time. Bye now. Bye. See you. And you guys seriously. Go do that.

Peter thing. It doesn't have to be much, just enough to make it worth the time, but like 50 cents, like whatever. I just want you to blow their socks off over there and all that. And Brian's URL is amazing. All right. Let's, uh, yeah, I just did a test with it. And it took me to a preview page, but then you click proceed to the site and it goes to the right page. Oh, that's, but other times I tested it went right to the page and other people are, obviously it's working for people because it's, he's already up to 160 bucks. Tiny URL. Um, let me see. if it works for me because I didn't actually try it, I guess. I hate, I hate fund.

And I really do. I'm amazed it wasn't already taken. Oh, you're right. It is a preview. I have to proceed. Yeah. That's weird. It is weird, yeah.

But it didn't the first time I tried it. So I don't know if it's, if maybe the amount of use it's getting is causing it to kick up a preview. I don't know. That's really weird. All right. Well, I will, I'm going to do my own donation here in a minute. All right.

Well, we're about done. I got a dental appointment. so we don't have a ton of time. But I did want to say that if you're a patron of the show, you'll end up with a bonus show this week. That is correct tomorrow at 2 p.m. Friday afternoon, you'll get a live show as well as a podcast that you can only get through your access at patreon.coms.

So sign up today if you haven't. It's your chance to get more content that you ever knew you would get. Also, send us your emails, The Morningstream at gmail.com. Therapy Thursday questions can go there as well. but any old thing you want to just ask us something tell us something chew us out for something it's fine whatever the morning stream at gmail.com

okay well okay let's get out with music it's a little preview for what's not the same music but you know when Brianville when Brianville when Brian does coverville Brianville you know we get we get a little taste early in the day I always like to think so yeah some and sometimes I do a you know a song that got cut from the show

if there's too many versions of the song that I like, then, you know, I may play one here on TMS. But not in this case. Christina wrote in and said, hi there. Could you please consider dedicating a song to my boyfriend, Jason, on my behalf? He's a very long-time listener, fan and patron, and I know this would mean a lot to him. This would mean a lot to me as well, because we'll be on a long drive the day I've entered for the song request, and it would be super cool if he could hear that during the drive. It's his birthday, and I'm not going to read the next part of this. Any detail of rationale for the dedication would be he's brightened every single day since we first met.

Thank you so much for your consideration, Christina. Happy birthday to you. There you go. Yes, happy birthday, Jason. I hope you guys are having a great trip, a great drive. And apparently, Jason likes the band Muse. Guess what? I like the band Muse, too.

I get to see them live at BlizzCon. And it was the best concert I've ever seen at Blizcon. And Weirdall Yankevix was right up there, too. Um, this is Muse, something they recorded for BBC Radio's live lounge back in 2015. It's a cover of churches lies. Oh, it's great. Here is Muse. Oh, man, churches. I like Chiverch's, right? It's Chiverch's. Okay. Not the chicken. We just want to make that clear. Muse and churches coming together to make one cool ass thing. Chiverses. All right, there it is. We'll see some of you tomorrow and the rest of you on Monday. We'll see you then. Faster, faster, faster, you won't go far.

Shouldn't live, feel in faith, we don't know why. You've got to show me, both these, cold and light Hold me, slowly hide me So that I can fly highways We can sing, we can make time Oh songs flood and flame You could be mine But forgot to show me

Both these skin and bold Throw me, throw me, move me Till I can suck your life You can't get a man But hang it to believe me for anyone Anyone I can show you up

When I see the alone I can feel something in the mind Like I know like you never swore An icon of symmetry Swallowing sides Fall down in front of me Followed my eyes But I got to see you

Move me Wasteess heart Teach me, make me Hold me Till I can feel the life You can't get a bit And you're trying to believe of anyone, anyone, anyone.

And I can tell you all when I see the Lord I can see that's mind like I can know, like I know what you want. Anywhere I can't anyone I can't you know

I can tell you lie I can't get in make a word 81 81 I can try the world I can show you all

when I see the moon I can see so dirty in mind like a night like a nice world like a night like a duck squirrel This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more shows like this at FrogPants.com.

I want you to build me a spaceship. Okay.