The Morning Stream - TMS 2530: GoRefundMe

Episode Date: September 28, 2023

The Science of The Wet Spot. The Hilt Is The Taint Of The Sword. Infect people with kindness. The Bros Must Be Crazy! TMS is Robots all the way down. (s) All around me there are stupid faces. I Use Daggers! Stabby Stabby Stab. That rotten carrot bowling bag smell. Listen here, Engagement Farmer. Kevin Bacon this kindness shit. Tony the Terry. H2O Conspiracy Theories. Assume everyone's a shithead. Inverted guests. Keith & No Girl. Feminist Lens Crafting With Wendi and more on this episode of The Morning Stream. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

TMS is brought to you daily by the support of our patrons at patreon.com slash TMS, like Adam, Eric Cook, and Cody Dixon. Coming up on TMS, the science of the wet spot. Gross, the hilt is the taint of the sword. Infect people with kindness. The bros must be crazy. TMS is robots all the way down. All around me, there are stupid faces. I use daggers, stabby, stabby stab.

That rotten carrot bowling bag smell. Listen to here, engagement farmer. Kevin Bacon, this kindness shit. Tony the Terry. H-2-0 conspiracy theories. Assume everyone's a shit-headed. Inverted guests. Heathand, no girl.

Feminist lens crafting with Wendy and more on this episode of The Morning Stream. Howdy, Professor, won't you drop in for a spot of tea? No, thanks, boys, but here's a tip on that English assignment I made this afternoon. This thing is full of baseball and sex things. The morning stream. I wonder what kind of world we're opening the door on. Hey, everyone. Welcome to TMS. It's Thursday, September 28th, 2020. I'm Scott Johnson with Brian. Hi, Brian. Hello. Hello, Scott. Has Tina heard that yet? The thing you did? The voice.

No, no. She hasn't. She'll hear that up. Actually, we did that post show. So she listens to the podcast proper. She doesn't, she's not a Patreon subscriber. Sure. Whatever. But, uh, so she's, she has not nobody, nobody who's

not a Patreon subscriber is heard. They don't know. No, they don't know. So Tina will tell you and others what we did last night in our post show is we synthesized Brian's version of your voice that he does all the time. And now, we have an AI reader who can anytime we need it, we'll say whatever we want in the Tina Brian voice, at least as close as it can approximate. It doesn't quite know it. Yeah, it's, it's, it's,

it's, it's, it's, it captures, uh, timber, right? Pitch. It gets the pitch, but I don't think it gets like the, there's nuance to your portrayal. There's so much nuance. Like, I think, even if I did the, if you record me doing the Trump voice, I think it would probably just capture like the, the, the, the tone of my voice. It wouldn't get any of the, you know, the, the, the, the kind of grumbly stuff. Yeah. The parts where there's breath involved, it's less likely to capture that. Exactly. Exactly. So, uh, hey, don't worry, the future's coming. We'll all be able to do this. It's coming. It'll figure all that stuff out. And then we're done, Scott. Then we don't need to do a thing. We can just type in TMS and it'll generate our podcast for us. Or just, we'll give it to you.

For all people know, yeah. It's already doing it. It's already happening now. I let chat. GPT is making the podcast, writing it. It's being fed into mid-journey, which is pooping out video. The audio is being done by 11.I.O. Or what is it? 11 labs. It's all done. It's all machines now. It's all robots.

And we're just responding. You don't know because it sounds like we're just having like a random, you know, back and forth based on what each other is saying. But really, the future is here. The real Scott and Brian are in cryogenic pods right now. Yeah. I'm looking forward to coming out of that one day. Hopefully not fallout forest.

that thing opens up. Oh, it's going to reek, dude. It's going to be terrible. It's going to smell like rotten carrots. That's my prediction. It's going to smell like the inside of a bowling bag. That's right. Ooh, gross. All right, we have a very important topic we need to discuss on a Thursday. Look, Wendy's coming later. I'm sure Wendy will have way more important things to say about stuff. But this is an important one. I couldn't get out of my head because I don't actually have a good answer for this. Now, you might say, Scott should have saved this for Bobby or he should have saved this for someone who's an expert in this. this in this area oh hell no tough poo it's me and brian today all right why on earth would we do something responsible like that no we're not going to be responsible are you kidding anyway here is the clip and then you'll it'll it will self-explain and then we can talk about it all right so here you go why are wet clothes darker even the water has no color water is transparent then how does it make the color of a cloth darker isn't that concerning now if i had if i dumped a glass of water on this shirt right it would go dark where the water is it would be darker and you're already wearing a black

shirt but right there where you dump the water it would be it would be darker it'd be darker and if you wore a light shirt i don't know orange it would still go darker why if i was wearing a white shirt you'd see my nipples bobby says in the chat this is easy all right well i i wait i wait your text very uh yeah should we take our guesses as to why like yeah what that's what i want to do here Why do you think it is that water while a transparent liquid, let's say this is the purest, clearest water you've ever seen? It's distilled water for Brian's mask thing, right? Right. You dump that on your shirt, oh, shoot, well, it'll dry, no big deal.

But right now you've got a big old black mark. Why is it darker? So here's, this is like completely pulling this answer out of my ass. So when you're responding to me in X or on threads and saying, You don't know what you're talking about. Then, you know, this is all, this is exactly where I'm beginning this. Okay, so, clothing cloth is porous. Yeah.

And the water forms like a, like it basically fills in all of those little holes in between. And the color, like you're basically seeing the color of the clothing refracted through the lens of the water where everything is, is porous. like everything is so like if you're wearing if you're wearing a blue shirt and you zoom in really close you zoom in and enhance on that blue shirt sure and you've got all those little holes right yeah so right now where my fingers are it's blue right well when the water goes in there it's filling in all those little holes and basically it's not closing them up but because it's got stuff in those holes and it's and it's refracting the color around it yeah refracting is probably the wrong word but it's basically filling in all those holes so you're basically seeing blue all the way through

Okay. I think that's actually a strong theory. Mine's close. Mine was just about density, because even if it's just damp and not like freshly wet, so you just have a damp mark on your shirt, that to me implies, and it's still dark, that implies that the water molecules are filling up space that normally is unoccupied. Sure. So far, we're on, run, we're parity. It feels very pair. Yeah, I think we're kind of on the same path here. Yeah. our theory but what's what's causing it to be darker though like you're saying the water's filling in the spots why aren't we seeing if the water is clear oh right that's still a good point because like if the water so if if if the density increases and body thinks vacuums um um uh brian abid is close says bobby bobby says okay here's what bobby says water has a different index of refraction than air when it is wet some of the light gets bent away in different directions not so

or not so not as much of the light can make it back into your eye when it's dry. Interesting. So we're close. We're all on the same page. It's where we're at, the refraction deal. We use the key phrase refraction. And that basically we could have just said refraction. Sure.

And I mean, when we were younger, refraction usually meant like, I'm in the pool and it looks like my legs are tiny or whatever because that's how light refracted. But in this case, it's more like a light bouncing all over the place. in ways that are small and weird to the human eye. But when I heard this guy ask it in this kind of condescending way. Why are wet clothes darker? I'm like, well, you could, listen to your engagement farmer. Congratulations on this year's yield. Listen, in the time it took you, because that was, I'm guessing on TikTok,

I'm just guessing based on the music in the background. Well, supposedly of some podcast I've never heard of where they captured it from, but yes, it was made available on TikTok is where I saw it. Yeah. In the time it took him to record and edit that, he could have gone to Google or gone to, you know, just basically, yeah, gone in Google, search for that, understood it and then been educated instead of, exactly, engagement farming. Yeah, it's kind of like the person yesterday, I saw one where the guy goes, so isn't it weird that we don't have like just stacks and stacks of autopsy results from all the supposed people that died? in concentration camps in Germany. Isn't that weird? Oh, no, really?

I had to write back and I said, isn't it weird that when you mass incinerate bodies at an alarming rate and dump their ashes into giant graves that you wouldn't have autopsy results for a pile of ashes, you dip shit? Exactly. I know. So, you know, look. You're giving that troll what he wants.

Well, he'll never hear us talk. But the point is, that's true. The point is, when you wrote him back, you gave him what he wants me. Oh, yeah, yeah, I guess so. I get, I get, uh, check her some libs. This is the problem. I get really, um, how do I put this? Goaded.

You get goaded into responding. I don't know if goaded's the right word. I take people too much at their face value. So if somebody says something like that. There's a lot of stupid faces, though. Yeah. So they have a zero value or even sometimes a negative value. No, you're right.

You're right, but I always have this first front line assumption that if somebody's going to say something, they mean what they say. And it's a bad assumption because a lot of people don't, especially in this context of online or whatever. Exactly. They say it to, you know, again, to get shared, to get retweets, to get likes. By the way, what do you call, if you take something on X now and you reshare it to the people you follow, are you rexing it? Are you reeksing it? They have a name. It says repost in there, and it's boring. Oh, repost?

Okay. It's boring as shit. How boring is that? You had such an amazing term, retweet. And now it's repost? That's stupid. Stupid. They stole that from Facebook.

Oh, man. I don't know, dude. All I know is once in a while people say dumb shit, and I have to talk about it on the show. That's how it is. Yeah. Yeah, Bobby again, Frankenberger in the chat. My assumption about the internet is that everyone is a shithead. It's kind of a good way, you know, you're never disappointed,

and sometimes you're pleasantly surprised when someone that you assumed is a shithead is not a shithead. Yeah, I guess as long as you can be open to when they're not, then it's not bad. If you set the bar low, you'll rarely be disappointed. Sometimes people, you know, go down several stages below shithead on the scale, unfortunately. but yeah i have i have the unfortunate instinct in me still the naive childlike instinct that i can reason with people i'd love to reason with people it'd be great and i'm happy to do it but every time i try to engage i'd love it if that dude all of a sudden said you know this scott johnson makes a point they wouldn't have autopsy results for all the genocide that they committed yeah no no none of them

are going to do that they're never going to say it right like so why you're you're right you're all right Chad, I know. You don't have to scold me like I'm a child. I know I'm wrong in this way. Okay. I get it. I get it. What I'm saying is it would be a lot nicer if the world wasn't like that. That's all. So when I approach this shit, I just like to have an open mind. I have less of one online. But when I'll admit, occasionally somebody will chip my tooth and I'll be like, you little you weirdos. And I got to say something. I just feel like I got to say it. And I 100% agree, I wish, I wish, uh, I would agree that they would make the world a better place if people, you know, did exactly what you're describing, right? Like, you could have a normal discourse with somebody online and it wouldn't turn into, uh, um, you know, a battle of, uh, who can plant their feet more firmly in the ground, basically. Because wasn't that that that was the dream? You know, they should have renamed Twitter v.S. Like, it should have been just renamed Versus because I feel like,

That's what Twitter is. It's a battle between you and the people you respond. The people you respond to are the people who respond to you. It's just that the original vision of the internet was a very utopic idea. It was like, we all are on, we all can access this stuff in real time and we can share information. Like those original goals and high-minded ideals still resonate with me, even though we are way past that, polyanish stage of the internet that ended probably in the mid-90s like we're way past it but i still like it i'd like the idea of it and it's i mean there's still patches of it obviously these little

communities like we create and stuff and that's all we can really do is try and um infect people with kindness uh because you basically like let's here's where brain gets into hippy-dippy I don't know if you've got any, if you've got up, up in a way in my red balloon or whatever that damn song was from the 60s or anything from Joseph in the technical or dream coat. I don't know. I can look. You go ahead and explain it and I'll try to find something like that. But yeah, I mean, basically, it's much harder to change somebody else from a distance.

All you can really do is start where you're at, start locally, and just kind of infect everybody around you. with the kindness that you hope they will then go and infect everybody and Kevin Bacon this kindness shit all over the place. Right. So what if you go into one of these threads? Let's say somebody says, I don't know, they go, pay.

I hear the Secretary of Finance is an alien with three eyeballs or whatever. Some some bullshit. Sure. Yeah. Obviously it's probably not even worth engaging in because what impact you're going to have, but what if, what could you say in there to go, let's

spread some kindness in this guy's shitty thread. Yeah, I mean, it guess it really depends. You can look at that thread and say, all right, does this person, do they seem, just looking at their post and maybe their photo, if they're sitting in their truck with their sunglasses on and their baseball cap, because that's where

they decided they were going to take their avatar photo for X. If you look at them and say, oh, they look like they kind of have an open mind about this. And I can say, yeah, I know that that's what, you know, some people are saying about the Secretary of finance, but if you look up these photos of

them, you can see that they're clearly human and only have two eyes. So I could just be like a little correction bot and that'll be the change I want to see in them. I'll be a correction bot from now on. It really does come down to be the change you want to see in the world

and that feels like a little trite. Let's just package this up into a little ball that Nifler pooped out of his butt, but really it is kind of a it's kind of a good way to live. It's just, you know, be the change that you want to see in the world. Start locally and see if you can infect people.

All right. No more. Spread the, yeah, spread the stink of kindness wherever you go. The next time I see a anti, or like a, I don't know, like someone who denies the Holocaust, let's say. Yeah. I'm just going to drive past that wreck. That train wreck, I'm not stopping there anymore. You guys have got your thing.

Because two things. two things are going to happen either they honestly in their heart don't believe it but they're doing it for the lulls or b they genuinely do believe it and it's very unlikely that you're going to change their mind yeah yeah i think that that's true if you guys have any counter thoughts you know how to get in touch with this let us know what you think we also got an email sorry a text from terry in chicago uh he says his name's really tony but it always says terry in his messages so i don't know why i don't know why it's different but it's really weird like he's terry z on all of his social media stuff we've seen him before yeah but he's but then he signed it tony in chicago unless he messed that up he may have typed that wrong by accident i don't know he's on a phone but anyway it says as to the question which movie set prop you might be interested in taking home i think mcleod's sword from the highlander should be in the running best to you tony in chicago formerly denver and san diego so uh yeah why wouldn't you want that sword that'd be a

cool thing to have absolutely that's a really good prop to take home i wouldn't be surprised if it does feel like you'd have to explain it a lot Right? You'd have to explain to people what sword it is, though. Because it doesn't jump out. It doesn't like go old. You're not talking about the katana that, you're talking about like Kyrgyn's sword, right? I assume so.

Is it a big, is it a sword that you can immediately go, oh, that's Kurgens and no one else's? You know what I mean? Let me take a look here. Let's see. The Kiergan's sword. Looking at it now. Oh, yeah. It's got those small spikes on it.

Yeah, those little spiky things at the end. Those are cool. Yeah. Because they pop out. You could say, hey, this is Lord of the Rings, and I'd go, oh, okay. I don't know. Yeah, you could. You really could.

You could say, oh, it's a needle from, well, it gets a little too big to be needle from a Game of Thrones. But TV's Travis knows about this. Of course he does. Of course he does. Yeah, he loves that shit. So, yeah, like I just feel like that one doesn't stand out. Now, if you had a prop like Luke's original lightsaber construction that they made out, you know,

flashlight and all the stuff, that would be obviously very iconic. And as soon as you saw it, you would go, oh, yeah. Even if people didn't know that it was Luke's, they'd still know that it's a lightsaber. They'd be like, oh, yeah, it's a lightsaber. It might be, you know, who knows, which Star Warsian it is, but it's a... Sure. And not everything you collect is meant to just show off.

I understand it be for your own personal enjoyment. And so you would know it's the Kergan sword, but I just feel like everybody who ever came over, they'd be going, oh, cool sword. Was it like Lord of the Rings or something? Yeah, exactly. And the thing is, if you, all of a sudden, you seem like a pretentious dick if you put little placards up in front of each thing that say, this is Marty McFly's padded vest. This is. Yeah.

Nobody wants. Then you look like a real weiner. Yeah. Oh, see, now that's sharp. The McLeod-Claymore. Now, that is a sharp-looking thing. And, yeah, and he says that it does say McLeod on the. Oh, it's like etched in there?

it's etched in the the hilt is what you hold right or the hilt we i know we talked about this before and it just goes to show you how uh how i don't remember shit um what's the so there's the part of the sword that you hold on to and then there's the part that goes across before you get to the blade right part that goes across i believe is that the hill yeah that's the no pommel what's the pommel that's the pommel well or is the stick part you hold with your hand the pommel No, I think that's the hilt. I think you hold the hilt. Okay.

And then that little blocky thing that keeps people's swords from sliding down your blade and just cutting you, cutting your hands off. Some are saying crossguard. Is that what that's called? Someone said cross guard, but that's not it. Cross guards who help your little kids get off the street. Two people have said cross guard now. I don't know.

Is that really okay? The pommel is the very end. The pommel is the butt. Okay. Oh, the little, because you can do a pommel strike, of course. because that's a thing in video games. Is that really a thing? Yeah, in a video game,

you can, in fact, it's a D&D move for barbarians and fighters. They can do a pommel stuff. I only ever play rogues. I don't know these things. I use daggers. Stabby, stabby, stab.

So it is the cross guard. So the cross guard helps you get across the street safely and also keeps your opponent's blade from just striking your hands when it runs down the side of your blade. Yeah, and they wear like a bright yellow vest so other cars can see the cross guard

as they're moving around. And then everything together is the, oh, that's really funny. Thomas Chambers says, didn't somebody say something about just Googling the answer? Yeah, but it's really boring radio if we don't talk our way through this. Yeah, that's the other. If I stopped and said, hold on, let's have some silence while I Google. Yeah. It's very different than Dufus, I don't know why stuff gets darker when it gets good.

Yeah, but even then, even then that's content, right? That's content for the show. It's the same thing. so of course we're going to do content you guys are going to have flipping answers that's the relationship we have with our chat room that's how it's going to be so everything so everything without the blade basically is the hilt the cross guard the pommel and the handle so if you go in for a hilt replacement they're going to say all right well let me grab the cross guard let me grab the pommel and i got this here that's right exactly i need the uh yeah i'm going in for a hilt replacement tonda calls it the the hilt the taint of the sword very nice Nice. Very nice. The taint of the sword. Well, there you go. Also, we got to try something. Yeah. I'm hesitant to do this a little today because these meds, my doctor has me on are messing my guts up.

But I don't care. I'm doing it anyway. We got an anonymous package. Let me give you a quote from my sister-in-law, Sarah, who stayed here last night. Okay. She says, or no, this isn't from that, Sarah. What am I thinking? This is from Sarah Lane on DT&S yesterday. Sarah Lane, a whole different Sarah. Yeah, I told her that we got these.

Maybe it was Sarah Lee that said it. She goes, Scott, don't eat things that were mailed to you, is what she said. What? And I said, well, we kind of do it all the time because we trust our listeners. And she said, yeah, I wouldn't do that. But we are. We both anonymously. Yeah, I mean, this is a sealed bag of wavy lays funnions flavored.

Yeah, they're all puffed up in everything. There's not even like loss of air in them. Yeah. So these are funyon flavor. And I will always trust Chaco Mama and her annual delivery of delicious chocolate treats. So, Wayne, did we ever, we never found out who did these, though, right? No, we never found out. And I even put the call out on the show and said, hey, show yourself, identify yourself.

Yeah, so these are psycho, because these are wavy lays, which everyone's familiar with, but they're onion-flavored potato chips or funnion-flavored. That's right. There's a different, yeah, there's a difference between onion-flavored and funnian-flavored. Let's get a big whiff of this. Oh, they smell like that funnions. Yep. Sort of.

They smell like a funnion. Funion and a potato chip had a baby, which I guess is the whole idea. All right, I mean, I'm, go for it. Oh, my God. Yeah. That's funnian-y as hell. That is so funniany that it's, it's really just the shape is the only thing not funniany. Yeah.

Yeah, there's a real funnianness to this. Actually, I like these better than funnions. I'll say that because you get the flavor of funnion without that weird. Ah, we, we. piped a potato through an extruder and made Brian think for a long time that they were freeze-dried onions texture. Yeah, and they're just not.

Much of foodie. A foodie is a guy who's willing to eat anonymous potato chips that tastes like funnions. Actually, I don't mind that. I think that's okay. It's a little on the, it's a little on the sodium side, you know? It's a lot on the sodium side. I hate to look

and see what is the sodium number. So are funnions, I suppose, but let's see. Yeah. Yeah, 200. Oh, it's only 9% of your daily intake of, um, of sodium. So about 15 chips, 150 calories. Not bad. The entire bag will cost you 400 calories.

Get the flavor of funyon rings. Now in Lay's waby potato chip form, it says on the back. Guaranteed fresh. I like that a lot. Thank you, anonymous sender who doesn't want to come forward. Yeah. Who doesn't want to admit that they did this? maybe now that we've said we liked it, they'll come forward and say, oh, it was me.

Yeah. Nobody threw up on air. We're good. Right. Exactly. He's like, I don't know who sent it. I don't know. Generally, we do trust you guys when you send us stuff, so, you know, whatever.

Yeah. But don't do something dumb. Don't send us something gross or sick or, you know, don't do that. That's going to do it for all that business. Let's get into some quick news here before we bring Wendy in at the break, or after the break, I should say. here you go listen to this time for the news brought to you by brought to you by coverville today uh 1 p.m mountain time twitch dot tv slash coverville you'll hear my interview with rene and jeremy they are um a couple solo artists who got together and uh harmonize incredibly rene um is described by

Jeremy as a harmony assassin because she nails it on the first try. She's so good. Basically, the way I boil this down to it, if you need some sort of lighter, like light guitar, acoustic, ukulele kind of covers of things, Renee and Jeremy is your jam. If you're a parent that has a brand new kid and you don't want to listen to that lullaby shit anymore, like the rocabai versions of songs and that whole thing. Listen to what I defined apparently coined the phrase hushcore music of Renee and Jeremy. Their brand new album covers stuff like Tears for Fears.

Who else is on this thing? We talked about so many different songs. I want to make sure I talk about the right stuff. Harry Stiles, Steve Miller Band, Madness, Talk, Talk, all these are great covers on their brand new album, which is called Shout. Oh, really? And that's the Tears for Fear song to cover. how do you do shout and make it fit with listening with small children well listen to my episode of coverville and find out and since i've recorded and edited the entire episode i'll just play it

we'll live stream that episode while i do some uh conquest in marvel snap nice do you know did i ever tell you that van's favorite song is shout by tears or fears is it really you'll have to see what he thinks about this version see what you see what kids think of covers when they're like wait a minute this isn't the version i know i don't understand what's happening. Yeah, he likes to be in the car and fakes like he has a microphone in his hand and everything. It goes way into it. Really? Oh, that's awesome. He might be disappointed then when he hears a lighter version if he's used to the, used to the heavy one. Oh, I'll try it out, actually. Um, see what you think. Well, there was another thing I was going to ask about that. I forgot

what it was. Well, anyway, Twitch.tv slash Coverville, 1 p.m. Mountain Time. And we'll see you there. Bah. Can't remember. All right. Well, I'll think of it in a minute. Um, check this out. out. The 1% of Tinder, listen up. By 1% we mean like rich people. Okay, listen up. We got a deal for you. Oh, the 1% is on Tinder. Yes. If you're a Tinder user or a person dating and you're loaded, check this out. The dating app, Tinder, has just launched a $500 per month option for its elite users, elite. You know? That's the ones that have a little symbol next to their head so you know if you attack them, you need a group of five or more to take them on. That's how you know what you wants. Excellent. The dating app has introduced a premium tier

that carries a charge of 500 bucks a month but even if you can or want to afford that you're still going to have hard time getting into Tinder Select Match group

that's who runs Tinder and they own all Match.com all that stuff just tease the premium level at its earnings call last month quote the general concept is that we are providing an experience for a small

percentage of our Tinder members says CEO Bernard Kim not to be confused with Kim Two first names. Do you know like Jim Bernard? I don't. Let's see.

And the value proposition is basically give these members a better way to get high quality matches faster and sooner and make the experience overall more fun. We've been actually testing multiple components of this experience with their members today. And we're seeing actual real benefits. So I'm personally really excited about these testing results as the CEO. So it's also, so not only is it expensive, but it's a very exclusive little chosen group. You'll be lucky if you get in there. Yeah, no kidding. You know, for $6,000 a year, basically just be naked people just falling into my house.

It's basically what I'd expect from that level of tender. For 500 bucks a month, you could do, I'm not saying it's entirely legal, but there's a lot you could do in your love life for $500 a month. Oh, for sure. If all you're looking for is hookups in good times and you got loads of money, that's a good premium level. That's the 99% of Tinder, by the way, is... looking for that but uh you know it got me thinking by the way you're talking about bernard

yeah not to be confused with kim bernard would it be cool if like uh um somebody met someone you know somebody with two first names like this met somebody that was the opposite set of names like if if keith david and david keith for example actors keith david and david keith met each other like obviously uh the bad example because they probably wouldn't hook up in a romantic sense one was on family affair and is much, much older than the other. Sure. I think there are one as older than the other. Who knows, though?

You know, new life chapter for both of them. They're on a cruise and they see each other. Right, but let's say it's, uh, right, exactly. So, I mean, let's say it's somebody like, uh, like Bernard Kim. There's definitely, uh, there's definitely a woman out there named Kim Bernard. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, uh, I would love that.

I would love it? I'm into it. Yeah. Wouldn't that be great? Like, wouldn't that be awesome if there was like a, if they had a little hookup? Like, well, there's a similar, it's not quite the same, but Dylan, but Dylan, Taylor's husband, Dylan's sister. Her name is...

Oh, I forgot their names. What are their names? It's a name that... Anyway, she has the exact same name as her husband, her first name. So it's not the flip thing. But they... And it wasn't planned like they didn't get set up

or something. They just happened to meet. And they both have this name. Her first name, Dylan. No. This is a... Dylan's sister. And brother-in-law, I cannot remember

their freaking name. To save my life, it starts with a G. but Taylor's a great example because you can easily find somebody with the last name Taylor You just need to find a Johnson Johnson Taylor somewhere Well yeah that's you know

Wouldn't be Taylor Johnson But like you know Taylor Taylor Frank And I'm sure there's somebody out there Name Frank Taylor and the two of them They belong together is what we're saying Let's set up a dating app that just finds Your converse

It'll be the like It just finds your opposite What if we called it X-verse, so X, B, R-N-C. There you go, yeah. And we'll pretend, we'll design it so it looks like we've got Elon Musk backing or something. Uh-huh, good, yeah. We really boost our numbers with all the douchebags.

For sure, yep. And then before you know it, we're the biggest thing on the block. That's right. Oh, shit, you're right. Wabit Magic. Brian Keith was on Family Affair. So who's, is Keith David was on, or David Keith was on six feet under? Who's David Keith? I'm going to see here.

Or is he, he's the artist who does the Max, right? Oh. Oh, is that who that is? Who's the artist who does? Oh, there's a lot of, maybe there's a lot of, let's see, David Keith. No, there's David Keith. Yeah, he's an actor. Oh, I know this guy.

Yeah. Yeah, you'd know him if you saw this guy. Yeah, yeah. Firestarter, old stuff, Major League 2, Daredevil, 2003. We just saw that. Totally know this guy. Yeah, he's been around. He's done things.

So then who's the artist? who did, was it the max? Is that David K-I-E-T-H? Oh, and finding a K-I-E-T-H. It would be tough. It would be much tougher, yeah. Yeah. Although, well, I've heard some strange names in my life, so I won't put it past somebody.

Some parents somewhere named their kid to Kithe. And I don't want to know those people. All right, well, anyway. That's a long rabbit hole to go down. If you got six grand a year and you want to spend it on tinder good good news yeah yeah exactly um here's a bummer i don't i wouldn't like this i wouldn't call this my worst nightmare but i would not enjoy this uh passengers stuck upside down at an amusement

park ride for a rather long time uh thrill seekers spent almost half an hour hanging upside down and that's a long 30 minutes all right god yes you may say to yourself 30 minutes no big gill that's seinfeld and a commercial break and yeah but sounds absolutely like hell yeah yeah That sounds bad. They hung upside down that long in Canada's Wonderland in Vaughn, Ontario, where they were reportedly saying, sorry a lot after the time. So we did a similar story. Somebody's like, did you already do this? Braimbo Bright says, we did one where it was a roller coaster where the coaster thing was stuck at the top of the loop.

And people were stuck up there and said, you know, we asked the question, would you rather be the guy at the front of the car or the back of the car? Right. This is a different kind of ride. It's called a jackhammer. Yeah. They call this one the jackhammer. If you look at this, they'll show the chat here.

You look at that photo. That's them. I mean, that's more than just hanging upside down. You're in harnessy shit. Oh, gosh. That would suck. Yeah, no, that is an uncomfortable position right there.

Yep. Here's how they put it. I love the term. The park said the drama happened when a ride known as the lumberjack, quote, became inverted with guests on board. inverted. It was 10.40 p.m.

The maintenance staff was called at 11.05. Or no, I'm sorry. They managed to get everyone down by 1105. Two guests reported chest pain and were attended to the Park's Health Center before being released without needing any further anything. The safety of our guests is always our first priority. Says, you'll see the BBC on their TikTok said this.

Park official breezily asking, Is everyone okay up there? And getting a resounding, No! Exactly. We're not okay. We're not okay. We're upside down, and it's been half an hour.

Yeah, this isn't how gravity and evolution have worked together for millions of years so that our bodies are used to this orientation. And if you flip us the other way, our blood system, circulatory systems, our organs, all that shit, doesn't like it. We prefer to be head over heels, not like the Alanis Morissette song, heels over head. No, that's not it. No, but that would be ironic. So there we've done it. We've done it.

All right. I hate that story. That's the, like when you describe this, first thing I was expecting as one of those roving carnivals that sets up their ride, you know, basically has a bunch of minimum wage workers that sets up the ride. But this is actually an amusement park. It's actually full-fledged amusement park. Get it right, Canada.

Come on. I'm sure stuff has, well, we know accidents have happened in the Disney parks, but you rarely hear about them anymore. It feels like they got that worked out, you know. We pretty much do. or they very quietly and quickly brush it under the road. That's why there's so many conspiracies about like there's a dead body in the mountain Space Mountain or whatever.

And the Matterhorn. Yeah, or Matterhorn, whatever it was. No dead body, but there is a basketball. Well, there used to be a basketball court. Yeah, that was confirmed, right? That was a real thing. Yeah, yeah, that's a real thing. Michael Gohagen of, what was his show?

Real Reviews. One of the OG podcasters with us got to go inside. He started doing Disney stuff, and his, his numbers just took off when he started doing Disney. Is he still rocking it? I don't know what he's doing these days. He was a guy that had a... He died. He died according to this.

Oh, no, no, no. This is a different guy. There's another guy named Gahagen. Michael Gahagen passed away at the age of 68. That's not him. And he's a radio guy. Okay, yeah, no. No, and he's is spelled G.

G. O'Hagan or something like that. Podcast. Let's see here. Podcast Solutions. list the book that he wrote just curious if I used to hear his name back in the alley days that guy was all over the place he was and this is a guy who like

man he knew the business of podcasting um yeah really just list his uh list his books more than anything else is Michael W. Gohagen yeah there's not shows hegan but uh I'm not seeing shows anywhere neither. Maybe he got out. Maybe. Maybe got out.

Maybe broke free of the chains that we're all tied to. I don't know. Exactly. It's funny. It's always fun to go back to these mid-aughts podcasters and just see what's going on. Like I don't know if Keith and the girl are still working, but. I don't either. But coincidentally, today is the 19th anniversary of my first episode. It just now dawned on me that. Oh, my gosh. I started 9-28-2004.

Are you doing anything on Coverville to, I don't know, market? Not for the 19th. I might do something for the 20th anniversary a year from now. Oh, yeah, good point. 19's kind of... But 19, you know, I'll play that Steely Dan song. Hey, 19. I like that a lot.

Keith and the girl, just checking real quick here. They're still doing it. They're just not together anymore. Oh, they're not together, but they still do the show. Keith is no longer with the girl. Yeah, they're friendly exes. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Okay. Oh, this is interesting. They say, it's trying to describe their show. Topics have included internet phenomena, such as two girls, one cup, and the cinnamon challenge. Oh, geez. That's great. Well, good for that, my guess. It may be time to update the bio.

Yeah. They got web cams now. What does that mean? This has not been updated in a very long time. Oh, wow. I was going to say, have they moved on to Onlyfans? That's going to be tough, though. You're in the middle of a breakup.

Like, let's, you know. know, things are fine now. But at the heat of the time when they were like trying to decide if they're going to stay together or break up, they're like, you think they're both saying, but we still need to keep the podcast because we got a lot of listeners. Yeah. We're still doing this, right? I assume so.

I mean, I hate you and I never want to sleep with you again, but we are still doing the podcast, right? I always wonder about that stuff. When you hear about people who can do that, who can figure that out, I think I admire it. I don't know how will you do it, though? It seems really hard to me. I don't either. Listen, Mary Lou Hennar got together with both Judd Hirsch and Tony Danza during the taping of Taxi.

And I'm trying to figure out, like, how, you know, it's like at some point you're looking at this woman you're acting with and saying, oh, I was sleeping with her for a while. Now she's sleeping with that guy. Judd Hirsch, really? Wow. Yeah. I mean, he's not like an ugly man, but. No, but I'm kind of with you. He's like some curmudgeony uncle kind of guy.

I don't know. Exactly, yeah. I don't know if I could make that happen. She, she, for a brief moment, apparently it was, it was into that. Yeah. Mary Lou Henner. In the last season, I'm so, going to be so glad when it's over. I feel like I need the closure of this, this final season.

Is it been a rough one? The end seasons are often rough for older shows like that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little rough. They're really leaning hard into the, they knew the gem of Christopher Lloyd. Yeah. Uh, Jim Ignatowski.

Um, as soon as they had him and they said, we need to, really lean hard and make every other episode about him. So it's basically Jim Alex, Jim Tony, Jim, Elaine, Jim, Louis. And that's it. You see a show like that. Andy Kaufman as well, kind of they really... Yeah, yeah, that's true. They bled him for all he could give before he left.

The, it reminds, it's a little like Kramer, not quite as egregious, but Kramer had to have B or C story every week in that final couple seasons. That was just the way it was. All right, moving on. Check out this. Go fund me in the news. Oh, man. Okay. They got the funds.

You can fund yourself. You can, you can, you get the me. Yeah, you got the me in there. Anyway, they refunded. Go fund me refunds donations to poker player who admitted to lying about his cancer for tournament buy-in, you bastard. Oh, my God. Wow.

Yeah, gambling, man. There's a point. The fundraising platform GoFund me said Thursday, refunded money to donors after a poker player admitted to lying about a terminal cancer diagnosis and accepting thousands of dollars in donations so he could play in a world series of poker tournament in Las Vegas, Nevada. GoFundMe said, it also banned Rob Mercer. Why is that name familiar? Good. I know a Rob Mercer. And Rob Mercer does sound familiar, right? I mean, there's Matt Mercer over a critical role, but that's not it. Yeah, yeah. Why do I think I know that name? Rob Mercer. That's so familiar.

Yeah, it does sound familiar. Weird. Anyway, I've got kicked from the thing. Yeah, go ahead. You can't blame this on gambling. I like how the first thing is like, ah, see that gambling. No, he's a garbage person who just happened to be,

like, you know, I played some craps with Barry and Tanner this last week. You wouldn't see either of them doing this, right? No, no, no. That's not what I mean. But you never see them do this. That's not what I mean. When I say that, I mean, people with severe gambling problems will do severe things in their life to get the money they need to go do it that's all i mean i yeah okay yeah i still think

this person's a garbage person and they would have like lied about this for for any number of things maybe i see if they're if they're a chronic gambler who can't stop and uh resort to shitty shit to get it done i mean that could be part of their part of it's like drugs or anything else you know the people i know people take like uh you know or drinking let's say you're a you're a casual drinker you drink once in a while i'm a very casual drinker Yeah, and you hold it great and you have great knowledge about it and you don't get blasted and stuff like that. But people who can't stop and just go and go and go. They'll do anything for that last train.

Yeah, they'll do anything for that stuff. And I always feel bad for those people because I feel like society doesn't quite know what to do with them, you know. Because on the one hand, it's like, well, I don't want to be around that person. But on the other hand, it's like, well, they need help. Do they have help? I don't know. But then you realize, well, I can't do it all. And like you were saying earlier, you can only do your little zone, right?

You can only do your little zone. You can only, you know, work with your little circle. This guy, by the way, that last sentence is the best one. Oh, it says, I didn't even get this far. Okay, okay. So he says, here's his apology. I'll give the first part too. He says, I'm sorry for not being honest about what my situation was.

Mercer said, if it would, if, sorry, if I would have done that from day one, who knows what would have happened. And then it goes down to this bottom one. says however the 37 year old said he would not be refunding anyone because he believes he has undiagnosed breast cancer yeah we'll get it diagnosed not laughing at breast cancer but still like well oh man so i really feel bad about deceiving people oh great are you going to pay the money back no because i think i might have cancer yeah go get it looked at and men get breast cancer go get it looked at then if you think it's exactly stupid no i liked everybody to do the buy-end of this thing, but by the way, I actually do, but I think I might have cancer.

Yeah, I think this guy is a turd. Turns out. Tell you what, I'll, I'll drive you to the, you know, to the center so you can get that checked out. And then we'll interview it afterwards. Yeah. And see. Are you in Colorado? Brian's got a, might have a car.

It doesn't matter. I'll drive out there wherever he is. Wherever he is, you got him. Okay. I'll go, I'll go drive. Exactly. I'll free lift. I'll take you to wherever you need to go to get that diagnosed.

And let's see. Shall we? Yeah. Let's just see. Let's check that lump in your left breast. Let's do it. Exactly. We're going to take a break when we come back.

My sister, the psychologist, will be here. Yes, that's right. Time to help somebody with some problems because it's Thursday and it's therapy Thursday. We're going to do all of that after a song selection from Brian. There's some sort of indie in the middle, probably, I would assume. That's right. And again, I like doing these things where if there's people out there who complain that we don't play enough hard stuff on the show, well, I've got a treat for you people. you people who like the hard stuff

this is a band called Dark Remedy I've got a brand new single called Possession pulsating beats driving guitars and thought-provoking lyrics this is some pretty heavy stuff and hope you enjoy it their brand new album

do they have a new album maybe they don't think this is just released as a single yes this is just released as a single here is Dark Remedy and Possession I feel the heartbeat through the sense of electricity will you send me free I feel the way you move and the way that your body moves If you want me

And then I want you to Try it until I can find a fit Building this puzzle Until the piece is thin Trying to solve it all this time I'm cracking the code In the conscious mind I'll show you what's inside

If you say it'll be alright This place that I call home There's nothing here And it feels so cold Tell me that you understand What it means to be human I don't know what that means, but the look on your face is everything. Have you figured it out what it means to be your possession?

Show me all your dreams, desires, and memories, and in return you will see a thousand light times of visions you won't believe. Let's catch you in a mask, sit down and just relax. As we turn on the gas, so be fragrant. The pain won't have You let me out I'll show you what I'm all about I'll be in your head

But I'll put the whole world in your head I'll show you what's inside If you say it'll be alright This place that I call home There's nothing here and it feels so cold Tell me that you understand What it means to be human I don't know what that means

What that means, but the look on your face is everything. Have you figured it out what it means to be your possession? I'm a dying god, remade of human flesh. I'll live inside your head. You are my surrogate. You'll live a thousand times through simulated lives. Sacrifice is my demand. I'm so cute to understand.

Time Is the voice is my turn out. Time to open up your eyes and step into the light. Time to open up your eyes and step into the light. This place that you call home is full of life and it feels so good. Will I finally understand what it means to be human? I was locked away, but because of you now I can stay.

Keep you until I can find a fit. Building this goes into pieces. Trying to solve it all this time. Cracking the world is tied. And then let me out. I'll show you what I'll want about that. You won't be your headache You won't be nothing again

You let me out You become my possession Now I'm alive While you're lost in a dream Every day first thing in the morning An associate gets the key This associate is responsible For continuous availability

Availability Strap in and get ready, suckers And we return, suckers And we returned Who was that again? That is a band called Dark Remedy The single is called Possession. Check them out today.

Nice. Yes. Indies in the middle lately have been fan. Well, they're always good, But these have been great. Yeah. No, I feel like there have been a few really good ones,

like really outstanding ones in the last few weeks. Yeah, and people can stop saying you don't bring enough rocking stuff to the show because... Oh, yeah, no. I try to do what I can, right, for all that stuff. Because the last few have been, like, ripping. It's been great. All right, we're calling Wendy. That's what's happening.

It's blinking as if it's calling her. So, you know, who knows if she'll actually... There are rings of clickage. They're rings of clickage. The no rings of pickupage, yeah? Oh, I just got a message. Oh, you know what? I'll deal with that later.

All right, hey, look at this. We'll play Wendy's thing. Where is it? It's right here. I can't find it. There it is. I'll explain the situation to Wendy. Don't worry.

Yeah, don't worry. Wendy will be here to help you with all of your problems. Don't worry. Hi, Wendy. My sister, Wendy. She lives in Minnesota, but she comes on the show on Thursdays as if she's right next door and does a little bit of helpful, you know, approaches to your mental health out there.

buddy that's what she does and we call it therapy Thursday Wendy welcome back thank you nice to have you here how's things over there everything good good good perfect been a little crazy here sore throat so I sound like frog oh I'm sorry you hear that I hope you don't have anything yeah and also I'm telling you when you

have as much vitamin C as I do on a regular basis this shouldn't happen right but it's happened apparently yeah sometimes those those Virei can just slide right right right Virei Vi-ri. Got a little vi-ri on your bloodstream.

We're using the correct term viruses. We're going to go vi-ir-i. Do you... It went viral. Do you... It's nothing... Hopefully nothing serious. No, no.

I just started last night. It's so yay for me. It is that time of year. So get your boosters, get your vaccines, and you'll be all right. Get your shots. Get your shots, everyone. All right, Wendy, let's dive in. You sent me a thing from someone who wrote you.

And we're going to read it here. It sounds like a perfect. for the show, so we're going to go ahead and read it. This is from nobody's name, I guess. It's anonymous. We're keeping it that way. It says this, my mother in her 70s has always been extremely anxious. On top of this is

extreme extroversion. A short temper, guilt trips, controlling behavior, and jealousy. She's a lot to handle. So, this past weekend, after she sent a nasty text message to my wife and I, I politely texted her back, that, quote, I care about you. Have you considered therapy

for your anxiety or talk to your doctor, unquote. She did not take it well, says this message. There's something mentally off with her. It's not bipolar. The best I can come up with is that she is emotionally immature. You put that in quotes. All of her children and their spouses think she is off. My parents ended up being divorced 20 some years ago. And during counseling, their counselor suggested medication for her, but she refused. Not sure what else to do. Anyway, talking with my wife about my mother, my wife suggested borderline mood disorder. I looked it up and it absolutely matched up. except for the suicide and self-harm bits.

That's the whole of the message. Not a ton there to work from in terms of history or anything, but I think a good launching place for this sort of topic. So where do you want to go with this one? It feels like a common thing for a lot of mother-in-laws, maybe, or moms. I want to hear his wife, have his wife right in. Tell us what she thinks. Yeah.

Yeah, no, this is a tough. This is a really, really tough one. yeah um because we've got a couple of things going on and we're going to take this with a feminist lens so buckle up if you hate that word i like the word feminist i like lens lens lens lens lens or with maybe with a feminist lens crafter let's do it all right all right lens well feminist lens is in about an hour i was going to say okay so you guys know what CRT is uh it's a monitor we know what it is with in relation to Have you ever studied with it?

Have you ever been in a law school class and used CRT as a lens to analyze? No, I don't think we do know what that's CRT. So there's a bunch of CRT. Only CRT, by the way. The only one is in law school. Okay. So the controversial critical race theory thing, that is not what this is. This is not monitors before we got flat screen LCDs.

You're talking about something completely different, right? Oh, is that flat screen LCDs? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. My point is what that is and what the feminists. this lens of analyzing things are, is that you just take a perspective that is not maybe the dominant one in, you know, the world you live in, and then you analyze something just from a

different angle, right? And you use the literature and the perspective and the lived experience of all those people for a certain framing, right? Okay. So when we look at, let's just take both bipolar and borderline personality disorder or borderline mood disorder. order. And then we take it from a clinical, psychiatric, fairly male-dominated perspective, you're going to see mood swings as this negative, terrible thing, and we got to medicate the crap out of that. And like, you know, it can be a very, you're supposed to solve this. Solve for the emotion. Solved for the swinging. Solved for the thing. And so that's basically the default model, right?

And so, taking a feminist perspective, or most sort of theoretical or frameworks, emotional-based frameworks for therapy, we'll see this all very differently. There's a couple specific ones, like IFS, which I've talked on about here before, internal family systems. There's also one called EFT, which is emotional focus therapy. And these are not, they're not like explicitly on the, you know, the web pages saying, Feminist theory, but it is essentially what it's saying is from a female perspective, from a lived experience of what it has been to be a female in the world up to this point. And in his mother's

case, she's in her 70s. So let's, someone do the math for me when she was born. She said, let me get the update here. 50s, 60s? She said, 50s, maybe in late 40s. Late 40s, it looks like. Depending on where in her 70s she is. Yeah. Yes, good job. We only got a window for the 70s, so we don't have. have an exact year, but yeah. Yeah. Okay. So to take her life circumstances. Now, we maybe have some genetic component, genetic components, sorry. Anxiety being a very, very genetically predisposed situation. So we probably have that naturally occurring in the mix. But then you've also got whatever experiences this woman has had throughout her life. Okay. And the reason I'm doing this,

instead of just saying, well, what you've got to do is set some boundaries with your mom, is that it's really tempting. My voice is so weird. Sorry, it's really tempting to, okay. It's really tempting to jump right at, I want my, I need my distress to be lowered because her distress is so high. And the numb that, medicate that, you know, X that person out of your life model is, you know, definitely a popular option. And so it always feels like the easiest one.

Definitely and tempting. And there is part of me every time it's like, oh, dude, you just, you've got to back up. You have no power here because it's true. You have very little power and you have absolutely no power if you don't have some influence to help her get what she needs. And not all of your grown adult children should or would have any of that power to do that, right? That's what makes this so difficult. So I should have started with, this is so difficult, guys, so sorry, this is what you're going through. It is really difficult.

But our take on it, I think there's some ways to view this with some more compassion that would really help. So if I had this person in front of me, I'd say, okay, tell me all the things you've tried. So sending a polite text back, you've tried that. What else have you tried? How else have you attempted to help your mom get some emotional growth or help? whatever, what have you tried? And then maybe I dig into what is appropriate for you to be trying anyway, right? As the kid, what is a role you can actually play versus what most kids feel, which is they have a huge role, right? Let's say this emotionally immature diagnosis is correct.

Mom didn't sort of fully develop as a person. Well, I wonder why. Let's say she was born in the 50s, clearly had a bunch of kids that all think she's off probably had undiagnosed a million things also another jab at the male default model is that a lot of medical or psychosocial emotional things are discounted by the medical field for women they're just not believed and or helped in particular ways and so you build that and then I don't know what other

sort of things were going on for her. So that's what I find interesting is you find out what the kid, the adult kid, who's like functioning but still has this sort of caretake role, find out what they're doing and what they feel responsible for. So that's important. At the same time, you have to be careful when doing this. If someone really was in front of me, I wouldn't jump right to. Well, you need to understand your mom, went through the 60s.

You know, like I'd never do that because they need to first feel validated that it's really hard to have an immature mom. Yeah. Sure. But it's okay to go to their second and say, look, look at what she's been through. Look at, you know, the time that she grew up in, probably repressed. Yeah, that's usually second session. I could never quite get there in the first.

Because here's the thing. It is not okay, the burden on children to take care of their parents emotionally. That's not healthy. It's not okay. And so the work with the person emailing would take precedence, definitely before we get to compassion for mom. But it's because that is a burden. That means they grew up too fast.

That means they may be more emotionally, I'm using quote fingers here, mature than is appropriate. They may, that may extend into different parts of their life. They're terrible at asking for help, even when they really need it. Maybe they're emotionally closed

because it's too terrifying to be vulnerable when you were taught that at any minute that could backfire in your face. You know, so I would really want that person to get a lot of support and understanding and working through, you know, whatever trauma exists from being raised by someone unable to maybe be the emotional maturity of their age, right? And then another thing to maybe find out is when did that shift, if ever? So everyone has different perspectives of their childhood and their memories, right? but sort of checking with this person about when did you realize I'm more mature than mom? And depending on what number that person gives, we could point to a lot of things that probably shifted in terms of, you know,

it would be a breaking point or something interesting in their history that might be helpful to look at. So it could be like, oh, at 14, when I realized I had to stop my mom from fighting with the principal about my grades or something. You're like, oh, okay, I'm the adult in the room, you know. And that is a normal developmental step at some point in people's lives in an emotionally healthy relationship where everyone's mature enough, there comes a moment where you're like, I got to take the keys from mom, she can't drive anymore. She's going to crash the car, right? You become the adult at some stage.

There is that question of what are those lines, though? Like, it's hard to navigate that, especially the question of, should I just disconnect from this person? They're probably, I assume there's an appropriate time for that, but how do you even know, like this is the time where we've done everything I know that I've done everything and the only thing left is for me to just remove them from my life as an option which you're saying don't do don't do early you know even if the temptation is there like you got to work through this stuff but isn't there an ultimate line that you cross where you're just like well that's that's all

that's left like what else you're going to do well and I think people need to be really careful with this this line and make sure they're doing the work they need to um I know I'm going to admit, and maybe other therapists would agree or they all think I'm the devil, but there are times where I'm working with someone, I'm like, oh, my gosh, just quit your parents. Like, come on. There's, it's too toxic. And I have to, I have to manage that because I know maybe it would help them, but that is a massive decision, right? And no one makes it lightly. I think we might assume, oh, well, you're just, you're, you want what you want. because that's how boomers talk.

But that idea of like, you, you, this is years of this. So that's why I would ask the emailer, like, when did this start? Because when you say, oh, I've stopped talking to my mom, I'm 25 or I'm 35. Start when you were 30. That started when you were 12. That started when you were seven. Something has been brewing for a long time. And then you can't, you can no longer function in your life without that kind of psychological

safety of having a break. So it is a serious thing and you need someone to work it through with you and be careful if your therapist wants you to do it too fast. Because there is a temptation to be just like, I know how this ends. Like this lady's not getting better or whatever it might be, right? And really from an ethical perspective, we're not supposed to say anything like that. And even though it might be tempting. The other thing is like it is a huge rip of your soul and heart to do something like that for both parties. So to really, really be considerate and intentional and, you know, work through what you need to work through. Now, plenty of people are walking around, like, I haven't talked to my mom for a while or I need

a break, right? They're doing it all the time without maybe the deeper work or the intentionality or processing. And that's just kind of drama on back and forth and back forth. Now, he never said anything I think it's a he said anything about um his family like his siblings no one's cut her off before like that's not in there anywhere so I don't I don't if that's a piece of it I'm sure there's a mild temptation everyone has to just like have a breather sure have a break right yeah so like I'm always saying on this show do your work first before you try to change anyone else because guess what you can't change anyone else you you've got to do your own which might include grieving the mother you never had. It might include figuring out where the damage

was. I mean, I'm raising teenagers right now. And I have moments where I watch their face and I'm like, is this a, does this call my permanent record? Are you writing this down in your soul that I did this wrong shoot? You know? Oh, no. Is this going to be a whole week of therapy? Probably. Probably. Right. And then, but I think there is a, there's, there's sort of an interesting generational gap here. There was this psychologist on TikTok who, I can't remember her name. I was going to have it ready, but she did an unintended social experiment. She gave feedback to millennial parents about how to handle when their children are coming to them,

giving them feedback that they didn't like something about their childhood or they were hurt in some way. and just the comment section was very much people like, this has hit home. I think I need help doing this. This is really informative. I need to apologize to my kid. Like responding in like, oh, crap, I didn't realize I was harming them and maybe I'm handling this wrong.

And then she did another TikTok for boomers. And wow, I mean, a few people were like, this is hopeful. And then it went right into the, like, why do I even need a relationship if my kid's such a snowflake? I mean, that kind of garbage. And you're like, oh, yeah, there's an emotional accessibility gap. There's an emotional, I would say, intelligence gap. There's such an improvement in like feelings are okay.

I've talked about my kids football team. I swear to you, it's not even football. It's just emotional development class. Like it's so based on like. But they just happen to play football on the side. Yeah, and that's why they lose every time. But anyway, it's, so it's a very different world, right? And I'm going to give you something to cry about is not in anyone's vernacular who is parenting right now unless they haven't picked up a newspaper or something, right?

Maybe they still are doing it. But anyway, and then so she kind of showed the contrast of the two. And so it's legitimately difficult. We have enough anecdotal evidence here. I'm sure there's actually studies on this. I didn't look it up. but of just the handling the feelings of your adult children. Parenting adult children is really difficult and you both are doing it.

So I shouldn't be the one talking. Though I do have an 18 year old that I'm like, feel like I'm doing it wrong with. But do you guys have any thoughts on, like when you read this and you think about handling the mother, like you can probably both relate to that part, but then how about you guys are the 70-year-old relating to your adult children? What would you want?

what would you how would you want obviously a polite text didn't hit the mark what would you want right because we probably you know if we were doing this we probably wouldn't know we were doing it we wouldn't know that we were anxious we wouldn't know that we're being judgmental or being laying guilt trips on them that sort of thing um yeah what would work i mean uh because i would i would completely bulk at an intervention i would basically be like yeah you're crazy what are you talking about i'm not I don't do that at all at your nuts. And then I'd lay some more guilt trips on them.

Yeah. There we go. Are you a boomer? Okay. Exactly. If you think about what it is, it's, I've given everything to you. I gave up, and I'm going to say this is probably true for this woman. I gave up my whole identity, right?

Any career I could have had. I gave up, whatever. You can list the things of whatever. I gave it up. And my payment is supposed. supposed to be that you adore me and keep doing that a lot. Right. You're unfailing.

Yeah. And your success is my success. Yeah. Right. Right. Scott, what are you going to say? It's funny.

We have these conversations all the time, Kim and I, about what we, what our intention will be when it comes to this sort of stuff. Because you can already see as the kids get older, there's already this thing that we used to do where we think we know everything. we think we know everything by 25 or whatever. Of course. Yeah. And so because you think you know everything and your parents may sense something that's like

a slightly counter to that or maybe culturally different than that or comes from a different perspective because they grew up in the 90s or 80s or whatever, they, you know, there's a little bit of an eye roll, you know, like whatever, whatever, dad, you know, bad or bad, that kind of thing. And so we knew that would be a thing because, A, we did it to our parents. And B, it just seems like a natural thing. so our goal is never to let that stuff get under our skin ever if it happens you laugh it off you have a good time with it uh you do not meddle in the details of what your kids are doing or what they're not doing uh you get out of parenting helicopter mode when it comes to maybe even

obvious mistakes they're making like if you see one of them making a job choice or something where you're just like oh they're going to regret this resisting the temptation to tell them that because now they are literally going to find all this stuff out on their own. They come to you for advice. Great. Give advice all day. But no more interjecting yourself into how are they raising their kids? How are they doing this?

Well, when we had babies, this is how the diapers worked then. You know, we're not doing that. We refuse to do it. And we have to make a concerted effort to do that because there's a temptation to do it. If, you know, Nick says something where I'm like, oh, buddy, you're such a kid. You know, I'm, my, my temptation is to try to correct him, but we are, but that'll, that'll bandaid or, you know, placate the now, but it won't teach him how to fish. Yeah, it'll also irritate him.

Yeah. And you're less likely to be asked about anything in the future. Yeah. He'll resent me. So, so, so it's, while it is not easy, and I'm not saying it is, that's been our whole trajectory here, our plan anyway, for this phase of our lives is to be not that and to be. just there when they need us, but also, you know, it doesn't mean you don't reach out and say, hey, we're just thinking about you today. Hope you're having a great day. That kind of stuff's going to

always happen. I just want this always to be a safe place for them to always be no matter what safety means. If safety just means dad's not going to criticize my career of choices, great, I want to be that place for them. But if safety also means they had a horrible experience with a relationship and they need to escape back home and talk to their parents, then we want to be that place too. So the goal is to try to be that always and it sounds easy but then you'll be in situations where stuff will pop up and you're like I really want to say this but I'm not what the heck were you thinking would you started dating that person yeah exactly it's like really a we all knew this was going to happen yeah and I know this isn't a unique experience everybody feels this way I just want to I want to try

to be not that if I can I don't know if that breaks some sort of chain or if gen Xers are are predisposed to doing this better. Maybe we are because we kind of care less than previous generations. Well, one notices us. So we have an ability to like secretly do things. Yeah, kind of. Right. So there's some of that going on. And I, and I, so I feel, I actually feel really good about our chances for this. It's a little harder for Kim when it comes to kids stuff because she's so invested in these babies that she's, you know, if Taylor says, I don't know, she doesn't making this up. It's like, you know, Van don't touch that. and then he keeps touching it, whatever it is, the stove or, you know, I don't know what.

Kim, Kim may have a different method the way she did it and worked with her kids and it did work, but not wanting to share that without being asked for it is hard. Yeah. So she has to hold that stuff back in. So we talk about it regularly so that we're always sort of not paranoid about it. We're not at all. But I just want us to be ready. So if something comes up, we're just not, our first instinct isn't always what we go with instead.

we stop, think about it, look at the bigger picture, and then try not to piss anybody off. Do you remember how many times you guys were trained to stop, drop, and roll? A lot. How many times have you done it in your life? Then. Zero. Yeah. The only time was practice.

But are we all so prepared? And the answer is yes. Oh, yeah. And this is where we're going to apply it instead of in a fire. We're going to apply it with our raising adult children. And that is stop, drop and roll. And the part of the roll, you roll away and then go complain to your friend over Picklewall. You like find out friend.

Stop telling. Those old stereotypes of the pickleball there. Sorry. But that idea of like you and Kim, the answer to be able to do such a thing is that you have the support of someone else who keeps that grounded. Right. And my assumption here is this woman in her 70s. I don't know if she's remarried. It doesn't sound like it, but has like maybe nobody to do some of this growing with, right?

And knowing kind of takes, it's really hard because first of all, again, we got to remember the kids do not have a job here. They are the kids. And that is real hard when you've given up everything and you expect your children to, to give back to you in a particular way, that has been a long history of human, humankind. And that is, you will take the business that I started

so you can have a life. And that is, you will care for me in my old age. And that is, you know, like all of that stuff that feels, you know,

maybe was given out of obligation, given out of love, who knows. But we got a whole generation of folks who are like, hold on, we need to have a real relationship here or not, right?

That is a big, big change. I'm not saying it's everybody, but it's definitely happening in, and of course maybe it's just the internet that we know about. Maybe this was always happening. I don't really know,

but my sense is there's a bit of like, hey, this relationship needs to be healthy, not I am just obliged to do these things for my mother. Everyone feels it. And I think that's maybe if parents really understood the power they have of their kids wanting to please them forever, right? And also wanting to be approved of

and be, you know, that's happening at the same time a parent is like needing a kid to do those things so that they can feel good. So when this is the dynamic, this is the basic dynamic, then we're going to go to this email back to what they're saying. Now we've added a good dose of his mom not feeling good and maybe never feeling good, right? Right. So I like this framing when a kid is struggling and having a hard time is that it's a good kid having a hard time, not a bad kid. And this is a good 70-year-old having a hard time. Sure. And she's probably had a hard time for 50 years.

You got to frame it. Yeah, I get that. Yeah. And here's where the diagnosing is so both helpful and harmful. It's so helpful to have a frame. I can Google this. I can look at the list of things and go, whoa, that person is a narcissist. And I get to, you know, wrap my head around something that has felt really awful.

And there's a lot of power to that. Here's where it doesn't have its full, it's not all good, is that borderline personality disorder, borderline mood disorder, all of those different things, if we really look at what it is, where does that come from? And this is where that compassionate part comes in, is somebody's got a wound from some point in their life. And it could be a wound that they never had a voice, they never felt respect. it could be literally like a traumatic abuse sort of situation that has messed with their ability to accept and feel love, to be appropriately vulnerable, to feel close to someone. So I hear this and I just think, wow, this woman needs help. And here we have a child going, I know, obviously she needs help.

But who is in a position to help her get this help? And it may not be any of the children. Now, I don't know all the numbers on interventions, but it's not. like a good. Most of them don't work. And that's partly because the light bulb, you know, joke where the light bulb has to change. You can't. Right. Right. Yes. Right. How many psychiatrists it takes. Yeah. It's, it's really tricky. So here's where I, well, first of all, do you guys have any thoughts on how when you're, when you're powerless and and rightfully so because you are not in a position to mentally change your mother's brain, right?

what would be your suggestions for this guy, what to do? And then I'll tell you what I think. Oh, my gosh. I mean, it sounds like, you know, so much of this comes from the, again, we're looking at the stop, drop,

and roll thing, right? Where it's like, all right, let's, even though that's the parenting thing, you kind of got to do with this, where it's like, all right, stop, let's look at where she's coming from,

what's maybe caused this sort of thing and how much of it, is it like a how much of it can you, just say this is the way she's going to be and we need to kind of accept that and maybe just change or not change but but help her

realize she's doing some of the more extreme parts of it like the controlling behavior part of it the short temper but maybe you're just going to kind of have to live with the guilt trips because she's a mom and that's what they do right right okay this you know what this reminds me have do you remember the episode we did about the road trip

and like come up with a playlist that your parents. Oh, yes, right. There's a little bit of that same feeling. Pinked in their colors. Yeah, exactly, as opposed to. Speaking their language a little bit. And you almost can, you know, what's the word? Divert is not the right word.

Well, maybe divert. Where you come at them with the love they actually are really craving. Right. And then they don't need to do the passive aggressiveness. This doesn't mean do everything they want you to do. It's a little bit of like step one. accept that this is who she is and nothing's going to change. Step two, start to speak her love language with your boundaries.

What is okay, time-wise, base-wise. Like, if it's so toxic, it's going to destroy your marriage, you're going to have to be real careful with those boundaries, right? If it's fine, your wife's like, oh, fine. Or you think she's harmful to be around your children, which that's the thing. You set those boundaries very clearly, And then within following those boundaries, where can you give her some love in a language

she'll understand? So it might be setting a reminder on your calendar and calling every Monday at 8 a.m. And having a chat. Like meeting and visiting her more often because that's why she's laying the guilt trips on you because you don't visit enough. And yeah. Right. And meet the need before she has to resort to immature tactics to try to get that need met.

Now, think small because there are some people hearing this. going like, this is all I ever do. This is all I ever do is I need all of her freaking needs. And right there, that is a sign. If you are responding that way, then your boundaries are what needs strengthening here. And you need to maybe process some stuff with somebody. If you're already kind of bound, fairly boundered, that's not a word. But, you know, then decide how you might find out what it was like for her growing up.

Like use curiosity and compassion as your greatest weapons. Like, tell me more about that, mom. Like getting, you know, and she, it may just be that it's so negative and toxic, but you got to expect that. You are, you go in with the exact expectation of what you're going to get, maybe do a little bit here or there. Here's the thing. That will increase any influence you might have because she will feel safer and maybe could hear your polite email or your polite text better. Don't make this your full-time job. It is not, right?

And like Scott and Kim talking about, like, managing the stop job. drop and roll. Do that with your partner. And then also have limits on that too. So it doesn't drive everybody crazy. And that's not all the things that you talk about. Yeah, you don't want to overdo that because then you're just now you're just adding scaffolding where it isn't needed. You know, sometimes you overthink it. And that's the other thing we talk about when we talk about this is like, you know, let's not go overboard. Let's not have a plan for every dumb thing someone says. Sometimes you just got to roll. And then this is a really terrible idea. So just put this in your very back pocket if all else fails, just meet her passive aggressive with passive

aggressive and you send her the book, maybe you should talk to somebody. It's good. And there is a character in that book that is this lady. So you just start throwing real hard hints and you just see that that will backfire and don't listen to me. That was a terrible advice. But it feels like such a dangerous roadic going on. Don't do it.

But that book just popped in my head. I'm like, oh, that would be really good. Because again, you've got to calculate. It'd be satisfying. Yeah. Where is the influence? So I just had a session with a client today whose child, two children are sort of deconstructing their faith tradition that this mom, it's everything to her. And as we're talking, she's a really bright woman as, you know, very open-minded.

This is not like she wants to strangle anyone. She just wants to be herself and she wants them to be herself. So we really went into, okay, what do you need to grieve? She needs to grieve that they aren't performing, the rights and rituals that make her look like a good mother, right? She's got to let go of that. And if I was talking to this grandma, the 70-year-old, I'm calling her grandma, the 70-year-old, I would be, what do we need to grieve here? The loss of your marriage, the loss of your kids having, you having influence on your kids. That feeling you must be getting that they all think you're nuts.

guess what they do? They just told like a podcast, and we're all talking about it, right? Like, what does she need to grieve so that when she interacts with her kids, she, you know, I'd love to get my hands on her. I get that that may never happen, that no one will ever get their hands on her, and she's going to stay doing her thing. But you need to grieve that. This emailer and his wife may be in cahoots need to grieve what they need to grieve. And especially the child of an immature, emotionally immature parent. There is work you have to do in order to a either get less entangled with that parent and nine times out of town healing from any of the the sort of wounds it just makes it so much easier to be in relationship with that parent and be

less triggered and then you can do sort of the love connecting thing that you know but if you go out of order you'll know that's the beauty if I send a maybe you should talk to someone book and this person box it out well it's because I went out of order I don't actually have the influence to offer that book right you're it's almost like a it's like a good screenplay you have to earn your scenes you're moving toward or your big crescendoes or your whatever you can't just you can't go from you can't the first scene can't be your big your big you're big yeah yeah one summer or one summer one Christmas we gave everybody on our like extended family list um the same book and it was really we loved it and it was all about self-deception it was like just

a cool way of framing like when you blame others for something you're actually deceiving yourself and you know and it was just cool I thought not even two seconds about that would be offensive to anyone I was young see dumb and what was fascinating was my own little my miniature um social science experiment is everyone who was in healthy mental places we're like this is awesome whoa what a cool thing to think about um and there was also like a parent parenting one that I gave to like extended family members who, like, we had their name for Christmas. It was like just a really cool parenting paradigm kind of thing. And they loved it.

And then the ones who were like, why would you give me this book? You're like, oh, no, you didn't read it. Oh, you're doing exactly the thing the book talks about. And, you know, it turns out it was not meant to be passive aggressive at all. It was just like, we love a book. You guys want a book? And then it was just clear that I don't have the influence there. and that person is not done enough of their own work.

And that's the reality. You're talking about a whole generation who isn't done maybe any work. And then they're talking to their children who are scouring the Internet to be better parents are working endlessly to be kind or do the things that they don't want to damage their kids with. And then we have them still in a parent-child relationship. It's a miracle. It's working at all. it's trying to be so hopeful

no no no that's good i uh it's funny we're we're you know i try not to tie too many recent things into these discussions but we're having kind of a similar issue right now with somebody who's not a 70 something mother slash grandma but it's the same weird things you have to navigate and it hit hit me the other day it's like i want to be able to say this thing that just seems so simple and straightforward. I just want to say it. And then it would make sense to anybody who it makes sense to. But this one person is not at all in a place where they will understand it.

It will seem passive aggressive. It will seem attacking. It will seem it will seem 15 things it isn't. But it will to them because that's where they're at. And I think what you're saying is it's kind of another way of saying you've got to meet people where they are. and then find a way to gain that influence, you know, however that works. And it's not trickery.

It's not like manipulation. It's not trickery, no. It's also like maybe some humility of like, I will never have that influence. Yeah. And that's hard. And that's what's happening with a parent who can no longer influence a child. So maybe a general bit of advice here is if you are raising teenagers

and look at me like I know because I'm in the middle of it. is that you're really pretty done raising them by 16. Everything you have shoved into them is kind of in. It's all in there. And the rest of the time, 16 to 25, is transitioning out of their circle. So I think we've talked about this before, but we all have a circle around us. And there are certain things that are just your thing in that circle. And when people are getting into each other's circle is where we have a lot of problem.

And when you are raising a child, you're in that kid's circle. in his butt and you're in that kid's circle telling him how to make friends and you're in that circle of making him eat food and then you've got to back yourself out of that at some point but when and most parents maybe don't know when and they they're having their own developmental crises of like I don't even like my job well I'm going to make sure my daughter will always be here for me so you know like you're you're in your own flux of things and so really starting if you even just can grasp that mentality of like I'm there's a transition and there's a time and a place and there's and that's what's really tricky for these sort of older folks who it's like

fear right like I need these people to take care of me yeah and they act like I'm weird you're going to get more borderliney looking right yeah so I should probably define what that is yeah give us the scientific phrase because that was a really good definition used by everyone. I love it. I love it. Okay, so really quick. So I, maybe one day they'll change the title of this because it's such a weird term,

but borderline is kind of the idea of the lines between two people or the border between two egos or two personas is blurred. And I think that's why it was named that way. I can't remember exactly. But so basically it's considered a mental disorder characterized by unstable moods, behavior, and relationships. And we don't quite. we can't be like, oh, that's caused by being dropped on your head when you're six months old, right?

It's not so clear, but it is based on basically emotional instability, feelings of worthlessness, insecurity, impulsivity, and impaired social relationships. So if you love me, then I'm okay. If we have any real interaction or challenges, I can't, I'm so destabilized by that, that I need to banish you or hate you. So people have to be all in and all good, and if not, they're all out and they're all bad. And that really stark, and that feels really incredibly young, right? Like, you could see a little two-year-old doing that.

Like, you went out of time, Mom, I hate you. You're like, okay. So it's very developmentally appropriate at a younger age. And this is where trauma matters and someone's history matters, where why are we stuck in that very young toddler response? And partly because... there was probably not safety. Well, part of it too is like we're, you know, I can't speak for this writer, you know, entirely

here, but I'm guessing like a lot of us, you're really busy in your adult life now. And it's, uh, it's your prime time. This is you being an adult at the most prime time you're ever going to be. And so these things feel almost like, there are obstacles you're not planning on. It's like, ugh, I got enough to do. Now I got to worry about mom having a breakdown over, you know, You know what I mean? If you had all the time in the world, you could think of all the ways you would like to care for her and what else you could do and all that.

But all of us are like nose to the grindstone. But you're doing the same thing for yourself and for your own families. Yeah, exactly. So that's why it's, and they don't, it's not that they don't know this, the older folks who are moving past this into their own little new phase. It's just that they don't quite remember it or they don't quite remember that when, hey, when you were 30 and your mother called you out of the blue with something. crazy that happened to you too but you've forgotten what that meant or what that felt like and so there's a resentment to like i can't believe mom's doing this like she's 72 she shouldn't be thinking like i've done this with our own mom like some of the stuff she obsesses with i'm like why

at this age why do you even freaking care and you know like it feels like everyone's in junior high again but a huge part of it is not them doing it it's me and the busy space i'm in with my own life, my own family, my own career, like all these things I was trained to be ready for and everybody, they're all hands on deck for what your life's going to be. But now I got these weird birds that are all turning 80 poking at me going, what about this? What about that? And it's, and I think that, I have to remember that sometimes because I think that's part of this whole problem. We're just so busy. Take, um, Grandpa Ward. Remember him? Oh yeah. He would sit in the background there if if you think of is there a person that needs to be the center of attention

and the opposite would be a poster of grandpa ward sitting in the background this guy would sit in the back smoking on a pipe not say word to anybody and just observing right like that is historically the the aging sort of kind of got out of the way and then also just think about technology and accessibility if i could call if my kids i know i'm with them and i watch them answer the phone every time I call, or I see them text immediately when a friend text, but they don't text me back. Like, you have a whole other way to be offended that just did not exist when Grandpa Ward was right. Yeah, Grandpa Ward is sitting over there mulling around the horrible war experiences he had while he smokes on his back. And that was silent generation dude, right? And then you got boomers

who are like, everything works out for me and I'm still in the center. And that is real in terms of just a collective experience of, I get the best interest rates and I have all the money. Right. All that stuff is going gangbusters for them. Why would their kids not want them to be the center of the universe? Right. And here's the thing. Until you have a child who starts to move away from you, you won't get this, right?

It won't make sense until it happens. It won't make sense. And then you'll go, oh, okay, I can see why this was really hard for them. And I'm telling you, that is your second midlife crisis, everybody. and this is, how am I going to live the rest of my life? Where am I going to get what I need if I can grieve that I can't get it all for my kids? But then where do I get it, right? And people often skip the grieving section of like, I've got to grieve this magical thinking,

but I was going to be the center of the universe forever and then get on a pickleball court where you are the center of the universe. That's right. You're the center of that. I'm talking about pickleball a lot for a reason. Yeah. Is that a study just- Did you just go to the pickleball?

No, but I'm going to in 10 years because I'm not that old. Here's the thing. There's some research on longevity that's really fun to read all of the different activities you can do and how long you'll live and increase your lifespan. So swimming, you're going to increase your lifespan by 3.2 years. You know, cycling. I don't crocheting, whatever. All these activities, you can kind of measure how much longer you're going to

live for it. And the best by far, by six years, beats every other category by six years is nine point three years, I think, of extended life if you play a sport with a racket. Oh, really? Really? So it could be squash. It could be ping pong, kind of. It could be badminton. It could be pickleball, tennis, any of those things. And any guesses why? You're swinging your your core around and your heart gets more movement or something like that, if I had to guess. Swinging your core around. That's a good one.

Brian, do you have any thoughts? That's not it. Because it's a good practice for defending yourself. And that's going to help you live another nine years. Excellent. It's good sword practice. Okay.

You are doing what every one of us would assume is that physical exercise to make us live longer is the point that it is not. It is actually the social. Oh, really? You can't. Why with a racket over? you know, playing soccer or playing... Yeah, why is it the racket?

Bowling or golf for the swinging thing. And those things you can play with other people, sure. But you also are getting quite the same physical benefit and the amount of people and... It's the combo of the social and the... Yeah. I like a combo. And you take pickleball and the reason it is such a sensation is anyone can play it, tennis is not available to everyone's bodies, ankles, wrists, arms,

whereas pickleball really has a longer... span of when people can do it. But it really is about the sociality, right? So whenever I'm working with anyone who's in the mom 70 plus category, my goal is always to steer them towards creativity, steer them towards self understanding and development, and get in their butt around people who can talk to them on a pickleball court if they, no one will talk to them anywhere else. But just having connection and letting them rant about their stupid child's decision to a friend, not to that child or holding it in and having it come out, right? Sure. So that's, I mean, I'm giving way too much advice to the mom who's never going to listen

to this. Whereas, you know, the son, I mean, Scott, you're really right. Like, he's in the thick of living his life and he doesn't have the support. He has the burden. And that is really hard and needs, needs to be grieved. Because you can't, you're not going to be able to change that. She is, you know, maybe magically one day. I don't know. Have her list in the podcast, see what she says. Give me your address. I'll send her the book.

But, you know, there's not a lot of power we have in those moments. So you've got to do a couple things for yourself and in order to make some of those decisions. Now, when people have drawn a line and said I'm no longer in contact with this person, there's a lot of harm that's been done. And so don't discount that when people, I mean, just know their heart has been split. in half if that is the choices that they're making right now can you have a flip it dumb 19 year old do that sure but you know that's going to not last these lasting ones are usually because you are you have been more mature than your parent the whole time and yeah it's really it's really it's hard yeah it's hard that stuff's hard and the older they get sometimes the harder it gets

totally yeah and then your parents start saying things like well we still have senior sex or whatever mom said that one time okay you remember that when she said that i remember just going all right that's dinner see everybody we're going and see that would be that yeah here's an example that's a great example actually of i'm still the center of my own musical yeah and i'm offended that you don't think i am right yeah right yeah so let me turn about my old lady's sex and you're like okay great i'm so happy for you that's exactly that's exactly what it was and what's funny is the the the So the challenge is, as you enter new phases in your life, is to remember that they do that and know that you're going to feel similar things.

You're going to have a moment where your kids are like, well, dad, you don't understand how holographic projection works or whatever new tech. You know, they're going to have something like that. And as much as people like Brian and I stay up on this stuff, there will probably come a day where we get a little lost in that area. I would rather be prepared for that so I can say, oh, I don't, I haven't heard of that. You want to, you know, maybe explain to me or whatever. I want to be open-minded to those things.

I don't want to get into some weird thing going, well, back, but, you know, the whole back in my day bull crap. I don't want to do it. I'm so against it, but I felt the temptation. I'm telling you how I'm already doing it. I am doing it in the, oh, you guys, I feel bad. You know where everyone is all the time. Like, that sucks.

Like, I hate that for you. For me. And I love to think about, I had to find a pay phone every once in a while. That feels like the back in the day for me. A little bit. I think of it for more psychological reasons, but I don't know. Do you guys have any? I think so. I think I do stuff like, I mean, we've been lucky that a lot of cultural stuff

from the 80s and 90s. It's kind of come back. Yeah. People love it. My kids love the music from then. Like they were, we kind of raised them on it. So we haven't really had those falling outs. And Kim and I are, you know, we love new music. So that's never been an issue. Even when the kids were in high school, it's like we were finding bands and introducing them to them. And they were like, oh, cool, dad. And I'll show that to my friends. So we kind of have an opposite thing going there. But I'm sure I do it with stuff. like, oh, I'll give you an example. So it's hard for me to understand just how disparate the difference between what people can make in entry-level job positions as someone who's trying to, you know, strike out there and correlate that with what their rent is. It's bananas, right?

And you forget it sometimes. So you're like, well, there's a temptation to say, well, let me tell you what, I'd. did in 1992, just worked real hard, you know? And if you work hard enough, but in the back of my head, there's a little voice going, Scott, that apartment you and Kim had was $349 a month. Oh, yeah. And it seemed like a lot. It seemed like a lot back then. I worked hard at my one job that I had to do. Yeah, well, Kim stayed home and got ready to have the baby during when she was pregnant. And somehow we made it all work. But boy, I think it was just due to that hard work grindstone. Exactly. And I have to stop myself and go.

We each have to have two jobs and four roommates to be able to afford a crap apartment. Yeah, we had a similar, we had a conversation that went just like that. And it wasn't directed at Nick and B, but we were trying to, because they were talking about how things are hard right now and like, well, this is what we did. And I kind of realizing what I'm saying is I'm saying it. And then we realized that Nick's rent is more than our house payment. Oh, geez. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's not because Nick picked some fancy place up on the east side. that isn't it. It's because that's the cheapest thing he could find in the city. So, you know, and it's kind of a dump, to be honest. So, you know, like it's, so those kinds of things, you have to just be really mindful as you're saying it and try to remember that you're not. It isn't what it was. And there'll be ways in their lives that aren't the way their kids' lives. And it'll be the same thing. Everybody has this. It will. It'll go on forever. And you could, in your attempts to stop, drop and roll and add stop drop and be curious maybe is like, Like, just ask them what it's like instead of telling them what it's like.

Like imagine, or you flip it to the generation before, right? So you could say, if I'm talking to, you know, someone old, I do this with John actually all the time. Yeah. He gets going on someone crazy and I'm like, show me when you were five. Yeah, no, you do this all the time with John. I love it. Yeah. It's so easy because the best thing he just wants to hear the story again.

and he once back when it was simple and it made sense to him. And like that's speaking someone's love language, even though it's psychologically manipulative for the sake of all those around. Yeah. Yeah. And I have found that my kids, like, as Adam repeats a stupid story that does not help with the situation, I'm looking at him like, oh, dang, this is coming. It's like, we have an answer and here's an anecdote.

We'll tell you 4,000 times. And you're like, I don't know how you stop this. It's like a train we're all on, we can't get off. But be nice to yourself. Try, try. And yeah, good luck to them. Honestly, just email me her address. I'll send her some books.

Wendy's always got homework for you, class. I know. I'm happy to send a book along anytime. Anytime you guys need me to passively, aggressively attack someone in your life. I got it. I got a book. You got a book, baby. Awesome.

Well, hopefully things, this. helps. I hope this helps. And if it does, let us know a listener slash person who emailed Wendy, probably tell you first, because they reached that to you in the first place, but be curious to hear any feedback. Keep your eye on the prize over there at real steps.org. When's that opening up? Yes, we

have opened up for registration. So you can go to real steps.org right now and click on join us. I forgot what the button says. And it starts November 6. It's going to run through. We meet Mondays live every Monday. It's going to be at noon central time this time. And that live meeting, if you can't make it, you can see the recording afterwards.

But that starts on November 6th. And then we finished their last meeting is December 4th. So it's going to be awesome. We have lots of good, fun, new stuff. And it's just so fun, like such good people. Oh, my gosh, I love them all so much. So join us. Is Elena and her green drink?

She's all moved and settled and good. She's all good. Yeah, she's good. She's in the old Florida. Oh, that's right. America's wang. Yeah, the button says sign up today. So that's what you're looking for.

Yeah, today. And if you want to scroll to the bottom and just put your email in, I haven't start sending out emails yet, but I'll send a couple with explanations if you want more information. You can also email me anytime at admin at real steps. Dot org and be happy to walk you through it. Yeah. So hope to see your face and old faces.

I hope you're cold abate. soon. I hope it goes away. Thank you because it's painful. Okay. All right. We'll see you soon. Bye now. A lot of that going around right now, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. Hey, I wanted to remind people get a little schedule stuff going on here. Today, 1 p.m. Coverville. So there's that. That's right. Play date

tomorrow 10 a.m. We'll have a combo of we've, I like this combo of some jackbox mixed with some among us. We'll do that again. Yeah, it's a good, it's a good balance for the people who like one, but maybe not the other as much or whatever. Mm-hmm. Yep. Just mixing things up a bit there, so that'll be fun. Core on Friday this week. John has a thing tonight, so it will not be on the normal Thursday, but we have a ton to talk about. Metson officially in charge of all things, Warcraft, a bunch of other stuff.

Sony executive, the chief executive officer, stepping down from his Jim Ryan stepping down after almost 40 years with the company. Or maybe it's 30. Oh, wow. He's been there forever. And he is stepping down. So all kinds of news, stuff to talk about, and some games. discussion happening on course so that's 5 p.m. Mountain on Friday night live if you want to catch it there film sack on Sunday this week another shift for someone's schedule but uh check us out then we're doing oh shit what are we doing cabin in the woods cabin in the woods that's right we're starting our Halloween business a little early folks not that early yes we are no it's starting at October 1st yeah Sunday is October 1st so it works out perfectly day one and also

skim will happen tomorrow some time we're working schedules out with Kim and her sister visit and all that. But, oh, and a quick update on that. She's comfortable. It could be any time. It's where we're at. So there's a lot of that going on. There's sisters all over town. I've never seen so many sewn sisters in my life. They're everywhere. But it's good. They're all here for their sister, and that's good. Finally, Robert from Hooterville wrote in. Hooterville. Well, he sort of explains. He says, Hendertucky is the self-deprecating nickname for the old Henders

sorry, for Old Henderson, Nevada by the locals. So there's a little confirmation there. Old Henderson is a very blue collar and has its fair share of rednecks. We also call it Hooterville. To this day, this part of Henderson feels like a small town. Their neighborhoods near me that are zoned for horses. We also like to differentiate from the Green Valley, the snootier side of Henderson. I'm really enjoying the performance, nonetheless, Robert from Hooterville.

I hope they call Green Valley Snooterville. Yeah, that's pretty good. Why? Of course. Yeah, they should. If they're not already doing it, they should. So that actually sounds like a pretty nice place to live. I would live in, I live in Henderson. I'd be all right.

Yeah. Everything that he's described, I like old town feel stuff. I'm into it. For sure. I like his, I love the show, though. I'm already enjoying the performance nonetheless is a great alternative. I like that a lot. Nice.

Thank you, Robert, for that. Send us your text, 801-471-0-462. Send us your emails, the morningstream at gmail.com. And join us on Patreon at patreon. com slash TMS while the month is still with us get in there it's going to do it for us Brian do you have a song to play here at the end of the deal wasn't hooterville the town in pedico junction uh was that I don't know it's it's Huterville Houterville wasn't that a oh I'm thinking of what's the Dr. Seuss one that's

whoville that's oh uh whoville yes at the junction pedico junction oh you're absolutely right it is called Houterville nicely down. Peticoe Junction. Oh yeah, and Green Acres as well, Jeannie. Is that true? Yeah. So it was, let's see.

Yeah, Hooterville was Shanty Town. Oh, it's actually based on a real town in Seattle. 1933. It was a shanty town called Hooterville, and then a lot of these shows use that as their inspiration. According to this entry on the Internet, which we have learned not to always trust, so I don't know.

Yeah, who knows. Okay. All right. Anyway, play us a Hooterville song or something. Yes, a Hooterville song. song. I'm not going to, but I'm going to play something for Kyle, Mr. Stephanie in a Pets. He says, this is a message from Kyle. Happy birthday, Stephanie in a Pets. Oh, look at that. She's in the chat room, exclamation pointing herself. Nice. You are the best friend I've ever had.

And the love of my life, I want to continue to grow old with you. I also hope that you enjoyed the breakfast that I picked up for you. I love you. Hey, Scott, could I get the clip of Steph complaining about apps. I laugh every time I hear it. Steph complaining about apps. What would I have called that? Look under apps. I'm going to look under apps. Let's see here.

Apps. The question is, do I keep it or did I not? Sometimes calls I don't keep. Let's see, Steph. Oh, here it is. I absolutely hate that segment. There you go. I did keep it.

Nice. Glad I'm glad I did. Well, happy birthdays. Stephanie, and good work, Kyle, and I hope you did pick up a very nice breakfast for her. He requested something from Stranger Things or sounds like it would be in Stranger Things. Well, this is something, this is not just a cover of something from Stranger Things. This is a cover that was featured very prominently in a few different episodes of Stranger Things. Usually during a very sad moment of the show, it comes from the all-cover album,

that Peter Gabriel did in 2010, in which he covered a bunch of artists, and then the follow-up to scratch my back wasn't all scratch yours, in which those very same artists, or a lot of them, covered Peter Gabriel right back. They covered him right back. This is the David Bowie cover. I'm sorry, this is the Peter Gabriel cover of the David Bowie song, Heroes. Here is Peter Gabriel.

I don't know. I don't know. I wish I could swim Like dolphins Like dolphins Like dolphins can swim Though nothing Will keep us together

We can beat them forever and ever. How we can be heroes just for one day? How we can be heroes? For one day I I will be king And you You will be queen

Though nothing We'll drive us away How we can be heroes Just for one day How we can be us Just for one day I can remember standing standing by the wall, standing by the wall. Shadow above our heads

And we kiss There's no nothing could fall And the shame The shame is on the other side When we can be done Forever and ever And we can be heroes Just for one day

Am I mistaken or do I detect the odor of almonds? Ew.