The Morning Stream - TMS 2569: Artistic Nudity

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

Taking Care of the Lymph Balls. Weirdest shortest thing. Sucking on stuff helps. Sea Turd. Brain Fat. B&S railroad. Scooby Doo and the Beatles. Enjoy the Little Tendrills. Grimy Bit At the Bottom. 10,000 sub par donuts. I'm Drawing Mostly White Santas. Random cryovac logs. How Deep is Your Roy. Crikey Cream. Let's Be Better with Wendi and more on this episode of The Morning Stream. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

TMS is brought to you daily by the support of our patrons at patreon.com slash TMS, like Perplexer, Katerina Dios, and Kurt Reichen, coming up on TMS, taking care of the lymph balls. Weirdest, shortest things. Sucking on stuff helps. Sea turd. Brain fat. B&S Railroad. Scooby Do and the Beatles.

Enjoy the little tendrils. Grammy bit at the bottom. 10,000 subpar donuts. I'm drawing mostly white Santa. Random cryovac logs. How deep is your Roy? Crykey cream. Let's be better with Wendy and more on this episode of The Morning Stream.

You can't let a simple headache interfere with the joy of life. Get in the way of your day. The joys that this world belong to the fighters. Let Anneson help you fight headache pain and win. Anison helps block pain. Just stops it so you can forget about it. When it comes to pain, be a fighter. great ways to look no bra natural.

This is the morning stream with Scott Johnson and Brian Ibbett, big old freaking dirt blanket. Good morning and welcome back to TMS. This is the morning and welcome back to TMS. This is the morning stream for December 14th, 2023. I'm Scott Johnson. That's Brian Nibbitt. Hi. Hello there. How are you? I'm okay. I'm all right. You know what? Hanging out with you in pre-show helped move the, what do you call them? The voice box around a little, you know. Good, good. I feel like I've got something going on here. But yeah, I was sick yesterday. That's why there was no show. We joked about it on Tuesday like, oh, I think I'm getting something. You said, I think he said, said, what did you say?

I said, ah, it's probably nothing. And he goes, and you said, we'll see or something like that. I don't know what I did, yeah. I was like, I won't, you know, I'm not going to jump too quickly on preparing feud or recording my recommendal or, yeah. All that stuff was, but you were good to take a nice slow groove with because it turns out, uh, I did get pretty sick. And then here's the weird thing, though.

I was really sick in the morning yesterday. It was my throat and head, nose and ears and all this. And then by mid-afternoon, it was really clearing up. I was feeling great. I was like, this is the weirdest, shortest thing I ever had. I guess I'm fine. Let's go. And I texted you, said, hey, we're good for tomorrow.

I feel great. And then this morning, well, most of the night and this morning, I had a sore throat so bad, it was like gargling little pieces of glass. Like, worse sore throat in my life. Never had one this bad. Still have it, but it's not quite as bad because I've been sucking on stuff that's helping it. And it is numbing it a little bit. Um, and then I got green shit coming out of my nose and I got, you know, all that and a headache that would not end.

And then weird dreams where for some reason my sister Misha is, uh, dies in a dream. I don't like that at all. And even though the dream had her walking around as a ghost trying to explain herself to everybody, the dream still felt real until I woke up, right? Yeah. It's funny. You can have the weirdest crap happen in a dream and your brain is like, yeah, that's okay. That makes sense. That totally is, uh, totally within the, uh, the, uh, the boundaries.

of this world we live in that absolutely could happen just like that it made me think too like when you see somebody babbling in a street um you know like a homeless person or something yeah yeah i i always have i always feel some measure of uh what's the word i worry about them it's like sympathy yeah i'm like oh man that that must be they're having a hard life and all that but when i have a dream like that and it's usually when i'm ill or there's a fever involved or something and they're worse those dreams make me wonder if these are people who just can't help but have their brain do that in the light of day

meaning in real time yeah all the time yeah not just at night not just when they're in their subconscious like they're always having it and that sounds like hell on earth like basically living in a fever dream oh can you imagine like if that's what that feels like I have a whole new

body of respect for those people yeah yeah yeah because I could not do it oh my gosh yeah now it's it's um you know without getting without getting political or anything i mean that is that is um what a majority of the situation with with the homeless uh is from hearing from tina with with you know her adult protective services job a lot of people there's a fair amount of people think that oh well it's just people who are too lazy just

decide they don't want to get a job blah blah blah but um there's so much uh so much mental illness out there that is difficult to manage, especially when they refuse treatment. If they're an adult, they can refuse treatment, and there's nothing you can do unless they prove to be harmed to themselves or others. Right. And if all they do is walk around and hear voices and talk to those voices and refuse treatment, what can you do? Exactly.

You can't do anything until they become violent or to themselves or to somebody else. Yeah, it's tough. It's really, really tough. I woke up this morning just going, if that's what that, I don't know why I thought of it, but I was like, if that's what that feels like, that would suck. Because I can leave it behind. I wake up and go, oh, that was a dream. Phew, my sister's fine.

Yeah. I mean, it's a similar situation in that they are experiencing something and reacting to something that they have zero control over that is not what the rest of us or a majority of us are experiencing. Right. um whether it's fever whether it's it's um you know a chemical um malfunction in the brain yeah our brains are weird man they are they're weird they're complex things it turns out it they are weird and sometimes they make decisions that in retrospect make no sense like the thing i'm about to play you and they're like 80% fat by the way that's true there's a lot of fat in our brains a lot of fat in our brains sorry sorry folks all right i ate a burger fat shaming our brains

The other thing I knew of yesterday Or the reason I could tell I was getting sicker Or that I was having a legitimate You know, viral thing happening Was how hungry I was Gosh, dang it, I was hungry And I wasn't, you know, what is it? Starve a fever, feet of cold or whatever it is?

That's what they say, I can never remember It's the most useless thing Because there's no rhyming, there's no easy way to remember it It's like, oh, if it's brown, flesh it down If it's yellow, let it mellow Love that because it's easy to remember. times. Right. If you're wrong. If the glove don't fit, you must have quit. Hey, okay,

it was bad, but at least it rhymed. Yeah. You can never remember if it's starve a fever, feed a cold, or feed a fever, starve it cold. Yeah, I don't really. I still don't. Like, to this moment, I don't know. So whatever it was that was making me hungry, that's the version of this I have, and I was so freaking hungry all day. Yeah.

Couldn't stop eating. If you're hungry, eat a pizza. No, it doesn't rhyme either. It doesn't rhyme. If you need some, if you meat's a pizza, no, can't do it. It's not happening. Chris in our chat room says FafSAC, FAAF, SAC, Fita Fever, Starve-C. That's how you remember that? Yeah, it's funny, right? Like, you remembers it via the Handy Initialism F-F-S-C.

I don't know. I don't know if that would work for me. I can try, but I don't think that's going to work. That's wild. I love that, actually. All right. Brian, so sometimes our brains do things we regret. I'm about to play you something that there's no way they don't regret this.

so I'm listening to James Taylor well actually I'm just listening to a Christmas mix of songs excuse me oh god up this morning and I knew you were gone Suzanne the plants they made putting in here That's pretty good James Taylor I've seen fire and I've seen rain

He's seen sun days that never stop the pain or however that goes Sunny days that would never end There's about a woman he knew that went into actually went into a mental facility or went into rehab or something. Oh, really? That's a nice way to tie this together. Yeah.

Well, anyway, he's called back, folks. Yeah, so that's what that's called. He's got a version of, it's cold outside. Oh, yeah, sure. The problematic song about why don't I just lock the door and keep you in my house. Yeah, it's a little weird. There's a lot of interpretations

like when it was originally written, it was some people claim it was like an empowering song for women because the woman wanted to stay but didn't want to piss off. I can't remember what the deal is. There's a whole argument, which I am not going to explain here, but there's a whole thing about that. But regardless of all of those issues, and there are issues, that song's got issues. There are issues, yeah. Even if it was never meant to be what it is, today we have an interpretation of it that's problematic, all right? But this is not the problem. The problem is that in the middle of it, James Taylor decides to talk.

And I would like to play the part of the song. It's the worst thing, by the way. You can do what a song is talk in the middle. I agree. I never like it, ever. I'm trying to think. You know what? The only exception I'll make is enter Sandman from Metallica when they start.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, yeah, and that's a different thing. That's not, yeah, it's not, let's push the story along kind of thing. Right. Well, this one is push the story along in the worst way. And I'm going to play it because it's embarrassing. So, anyway, here it is.

James Taylor in the middle of it's cold outside. What are you doing with your coat? You don't need your coat. What are you putting your coat on for? It's warm in here. Oh my gosh, dude. What are you doing with your coat? You don't need your coat.

Oh, no. Hey, coat, coat. It's the weirdest thing. Isn't that weird? It's freaking weird. That is weird. Is there more of that? That's all there is.

They play that bit and then they sing again and it goes on. But it's just his decision to put this little coat. thing in the middle of the song. Yeah. It was, I'm trying to find it. I thought I had it on my computer. The problem is it's not, I don't think it's called, maybe it's cold outside. It's called something else.

There's a version of it that kind of fixes the problem with the song. Like, I really can't stay. Oh, let me get the door for you. I got to go away. Want me to call an Uber for you. It's basically like the, uh, uh, uh, The guy's responding the way it should. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And I don't know. I wish I knew what the thing was. Carter showed it to me. It was a thing where the guy or the person was, I don't know if it was a guy or not, but whoever originally wrote the thing, it was during a time where if the lady wanted to stay, she still wouldn't. She didn't, right.

That's the implication is that, well, she really wants to stay, but she doesn't want the neighbors to talk or, you know, word to get around that she spent the night her father to know or something like that it's some kind of something like that and I don't know why we're speaking of it in bits and pieces because we don't know people we're not making a firm thing here I'm just saying that's what the

I know that song could be controversial all I know is that James Taylor should not talk during the middle of his that's all I'm saying yeah yeah for sure it reminds me also to the the Dolly Part and the new cover album from Dolly Part and I really want to like it and there you know what there are things on there that I really do like but there's way too much um so she does a duet with uh anne wilson from heart

they do magic man okay and um like there's uh oh what's the lyric hold on i get to find the lyric i can't even think how that song goes my brain won't do it you don't have to love me let's get high a while so try to understand try to understand oh okay try try try to understand you're a magic man Exactly So there's Okay The second verse

A third verse Is come on home girl Mama cried on the phone Too soon to lose my baby Yet my girl should be at home That's the way the original song goes Dolly decides she's going to act it out And so she says

She sings Come on home girl Mama cried on the phone Too soon to lose my baby Yet my girl should be at home. Shut up. I hate it.

I wish I was kidding. I hate it. I hate it. Yeah, I don't like that when they do that. And I like Dolly Parton a lot. She's great. I do too. I do too.

National treasure and all that stuff. I just heard her thing with, she did a version of, I don't know where this was. Maybe I'm out of it, but it was her pentatonics is doing the music. So they're doing all the, you know, backing and everything. and they're on stage with Dolly Parton. And on the other side is, what's her name?

Supp came in like a Wrecking Ball. Miley Cyrus. Miley Cyrus, couldn't think her name. Who's very talented when she's just straight singing. Their version of Wrecking Ball is the one that's going to make it into the cover of the countdown because I do think that is the standout track of Dolly's new album. Oh, there's a wrecking ball cover on there?

I didn't know that. There's a wrecking ball cover. And it strongly features, I will always love you Because there is the lyric in there I will always love you But of course, because it's Dolly Parton They have to change the melody of that to

I will always love you Yeah, the song made famous by Whitney Houston Yeah But she wrote it, right? That was her song. Dolly wrote it, Dolly recorded it Actually wrote it as kind of her Breaking Up with

um oh what's the guy's name shoot uh ernest borgn no gosh let's see i gotta think of something else to be able to come up with the name fred thompson that is not helping so mylie cyrus wrecking ball and uh waggoner porter wagoner that's how it works man you think of something else and it it becomes a lot clear so she wrote i will always always love you is kind of like the I'm crawling out from under your wings or your shadow and I want to go spread my wings and be my own musician. And so she wrote that and wrote the lyrics. He read them.

He's sitting in his office. He's reading these lyrics. This is the most beautiful song you've ever written. And I guess I understand what you're trying to say. But can I produce this last song for you? Because I know it's going to be a hit. Wow. And have it be huge.

And sure enough, he did. It was her last song with him. and made money then, but made a ton of money, of course, when Whitney had a huge... Yeah, yeah, all that backhand money from the re-popularization of a thing, that's cool. Yeah, yeah, the cover. Yeah, I didn't know that until you told me that a couple years ago. I always thought it was the original. Oh, because, I mean, Whitney makes it so...

It's iconic for Whitney, and... And the bodyguard, which had your Kevin Costner in it, you know. Right, of course. I was into that. I thought that was cool. The katana so sharp It could cut a scarf If I remember correctly

That's right I saw that in theaters Twice Not because I wanted To see it a second time Wow Because I had a date To see it a second time

And I can't remember Why I saw it the first time But I was like Oh I just won't say anything I'll go see it again It's fine It was one of those dates Where I didn't want to tell

I'd already seen it I don't remember what the deal was though What year was that It was like early 90s I think so Yeah Something like that Late 80s early 90s

80191 92 Somewhere in that in that cluster somewhere but right before i got married yeah um uh let's see here oh on that wings and nuggets thing excuse me ryan from vancouver rode in he said morning stream good morning bnss railroad is that the first we've had of that or is that a is that a redo it's got to be a redo somebody has to have come up with bnss railroad because that's pretty good if it hasn't it's okay i mean it's bno railroad is the actual monopoly space but uh yeah that's true yeah lots of body It's all right.

You'll allow it. You'll allow it. All right. Let's do it. The minor clap from Brian. I just heard you talking about the naming of boneless wings and nuggets. This is when I was complaining that they're not actually wings. They never had bones taken out of them.

They're just chunks of chicken meat. They're chunks of sometimes breast meat, thigh meat, whatever that are. Yeah. And they're fine. Most of the time they're fine. We're not talking about chicken nuggets at the McDonald's where they're pink goo. We're not talking about that. He says, I was in Safeway once and looked at the store made sausages, and some joker had labeled them random cryovac logs.

That's great. Yeah. Okay, love it. Random cryovac logs. Love the show, though, Ryan. He says he's in Vancouver Island, another postal worker that hates U-line catalogs. Oh, yeah. Yet another one.

Yeah. You guys are everywhere. We have more postal workers listening to the show. It's so funny. Well, it's just so funny how, you know, that's. That's not the thing that I expect to take off and have everybody say, oh, my God, Brian, you're right, those damn U-Line catalogs. You know, there's so many more things.

If I'm going to make a sea change in the world, I didn't think it was going to be leading the front against the horrors of the U-line catalog. Yeah, I wouldn't have predicted that either. But yet here we are. Yet here we are. So fine, I'll take it. All right, one final thing. This is a phone call that we got from someone who is an anti-hype, full-blown

hater. So I've talked about being anti-hype. This person goes one step further, and they wanted. us to know about it. And I feel like this might be aimed at you a little bit, given the music connection on it. I'm not sure. Oh, no. I'll let you interpret it for yourself because maybe I'm wrong. But here's what this person had to say. This is Dana calling for the morning dream. How goes it? So adding on to the conversation about Scott being outside the hype bubble, I will take you one further, where if it is something huge and I am told many

times how much I'm supposed to be a part of it, how much I'm supposed to like it, such as like Scooby-Doo or The Beatles, it will actively hate it. I hate the Beatles. Come at me. Love the show, bro. Bye. I feel like she focused on the Beatles because she knew you'd have a thought there. Oh, no, I mean, I know she's not the only one. I know a lot of people who hate the Beatles, and it's totally fine to hate the Beatles. I mean, if the Beatles aren't your thing, yeah, okay, good. I was really good. I was literally worried that I was going to be more targeted in that thing. I don't think I was targeted at all.

Yeah, not really you, but the music angle's interesting. I don't want to skip over the fact, though, that she said Scooby-Doo and the Beatles. Yeah, Scooby-Doo, interesting. I mean, was there a high bubble around Scooby-Doo? Not that I'm aware of. I don't know. Like, that is certain. You must like Scooby-Doo.

What's wrong with you? I don't know where that came from. I didn't know Scooby-Doo had that kind of aura around it, but apparently it does. Yeah. Yeah, it's, You know, and it's fine, you know, being basically, I think that you run the potential of missing out on some great stuff that is great, yet still has a hype bubble around it, rather than just the stuff that is that people glom on to and is not as great, but has a huge hype bubble around it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm going to come up with something that, you know, like the Barbie movie.

It was good, and it also had a hype bubble around it. And, you know, having, being super anti-hype bubble, I can understand it. It's a human nature to say, I don't want to follow the herd. I don't want to be among the lemmings that like something, but I do, you know, I think you have to kind of balance it and say, oh, well, this thing that does have a lot of hype around it might actually have some, might actually have some guts, might actually have some credence to where it's a good thing. Yeah, and I liked Barbie. It was good. Yeah. I liked it a lot.

I still haven't seen the Oppenheimer, but that's just because I, I don't know why I didn't see that in theaters. I just did it. There was no reason to see it in theaters. I mean, I loved the movie, but they're, you know, aside from the scene with the explosions, spoiler alert, folks, there's an explosion in Oppenheimer. There was really no reason to see it on a gigantic screen. Yeah. I mean, I know they always push for the IMAX when it comes to Nolan movies, but. Sure, of course.

That one felt like it didn't need. For me, it didn't need that, you know. Yeah. And I'm, I'm, I'm really excited. And maybe, you know, maybe I've gotten my hopes up too high for this, this Wonka movie. The soundtrack, when I found out the soundtrack was written by Neil Hanon, I got excited. He's the lead singer and songwriter of a band called Divine Comedy, which I'm a huge fan of. And so it's like, oh, great, he's Irish, Claire.

As soon as I found out that he was involved, I'm like, oh, well, I got to listen to the soundtrack. And I've been listening to the soundtrack, and I am in love with the soundtrack. The soundtrack is great. And what's cool about it is it, you know, I was thinking, all right, this Wonka thing is basically just going to be an origin story for the role of doll character, blah, blah, blah, right? End of story. This is going to be a direct prequel to the Gene Wilder version of the film, not the Johnny Depp thing, but because there are musical notes. And he totally took some stuff. Was it Anthony Newley, the composer for the first one?

He used a lot of similar elements. And there's, you know, there's the flat out, do-de-do-d-de-d-d-d-d-a-l flute noise that he plays to call the umpalumpas. And the whole the umpalumpa theme is the same. A little bit of pure imagination is in the soundtrack. I'm surprised. I didn't know any of this. This has surprised me, for some reason.

It surprised me, too, when I started listening to him like, Oh, this is, okay, this is going to be like a direct prequel to the Gene Wilder version. And they've managed to capture a 60s, 70s sound in melody and tone that isn't, not in production, not in sound quality, but in that arrangement and tone that it's like, all right, I'm Piccolo, that's right. But, yeah, the tone of the stuff very much fits with the sound of the original movie. So I'm kind of looking forward to it. We're seeing it Saturday night. Nice. I got a Christmas party tonight and then got a Hanukkah party tomorrow.

And then we're seeing Wonka Saturday night. It's the three-tipped sword. You got to go on there. That's right. Exactly. That's right. 84% of Rotten Tomato so far. It's pretty good.

That seems like solid. Yeah. It does seem solid. Nobody's hating on it. it's um it guess it's all that's all preview viewers and stuff uh yeah it's just reviewers no no audience score yet um but they didn't have they they didn't

that's always a good sign for movie if you don't have a uh what do you call that when you have to lift the the n dm the the the not the indiam i know what you're talking about like the uh embargo embargo there it is review embargo they didn't have one for this uh that that was on the release day and that's always a good sign if you ever have a review embargo that only lifts on the day of release that's trouble watch out for those. Exactly.

Yeah, and Timothy Chalemi, Timote Chalameh is a competent singer, and maybe that's good. You don't need a John Legend or something, or, you know, you want somebody who's clear and easy to understand. Like Gene Wilder was. He was a competent singer. Like Gene Wilder was, exactly. Yeah, he wasn't amazing. You didn't go, oh my gosh,

why is the guy sing more? But he was perfect for the thing. movie it's fine i don't get this uh i'll say something that's maybe not popular okay i don't understand the the uh the clapback people give timothy shallame and the reason i don't understand it is well i do understand it i think people just get catty about people succeed he's young talented and attractive and very and very successful so far i mean my my lord he's paula trades and the freaking yes one of the greatest stories ever told like i get it does to a uh peach no way an apricot and uh call me by your name you do you don't want to know the things he does to an apricot oh i never saw that how was that yeah it's the only you know you you know how when

i bring up uh angel heart there's one thing that you think of shotgun gooch yeah i was i was hoping it was assuming that we all knew it and you wouldn't have to say it but uh but uh yeah there's a thing that uh and that's the only thing i can remember about called me by your name It was beautifully shot in, I think, France or Italy, and Timothy Chalomey gets it on with an apricot. Wonderful. He's also, watch The King on Netflix sometime when you're bored and you're like, I want a historical drama. Okay. It's set in the 1500s.

It's King George I think is who he plays. That is a fantastic freaking movie. It's real good. So anyway, I don't understand all the hate. I just like, look, I know you all think he's. he's getting too big for his own britches, whatever. Whatever. Congratulations.

You went from a kid who did YouTube videos on modding your 360 controller to being a huge kid. Oh, yeah. That was his whole beginning. That was whole start. It's awesome. I love it. In fact, they introduced him as such on the Game Awards when he came out to do the Game of the Year announcement. Uh-huh. They said, and now with the game announcement, whatever, actor, blah, blah, blah.

And then they called him. and I think his name was mod a moddable 360 something forget the name but he had this name that he was just famous for when he was modding controllers and then he's a he's a nerd he's a nerd I like him that's great I do think that

it is it might easily Chloe Feynman's best impersonation on Saturday Night Live is Timothy Shalame oh my gosh I've not seen it I should check that out. It sounds great. She's,

she's fantastic at that. Did you watch the, how was, uh, Kenny his name all of a sudden? I can't think of something else. How was, or I will finish what you started.

How was he? He returned. Oh, Adam Driver on S&L. Surprisingly funny. Like, uh, his monologue,

he played the piano and he's like, you got a, get a close up on my hands because I'm really playing the piano. You know, now show me, show me that I'm playing the piano. I'm really good, aren't I? It was a crackup. The best bits were some of his things. I saw the one where he's in the plane and he's a baby, he's just a little head on.

That is the viral, yeah, the most viral of the skits. But his monologue, he did great. He, like, he was his Christmas wishes, and he was saying that people who do pranks, on YouTube they should be killed or TikTok is something like that I saw that was great I did see a bit of that I didn't know he's playing the piano though that's cool

well there was yeah there was a skid about it too oddly enough like scaring grandpa's scaring parents oh yeah because you saw the you saw the part where probably it's looking at him dead on and he's in front of the piano

so it's just him the piano between him and I think it was the joke where he goes you know those couples on TikTok that just scare each other Yes. Go and kill those people. Yes, that's the clip. Yeah, that made me laugh.

He's another example of this, though. A lot of people are always saying how ugly he is or why does he get this role or whatever. I don't know what's wrong with people. I think he's a very good actor, and I always find him interesting, even in the movies that aren't as good. Yeah. I don't know what's going on there. He's compelling. That marriage story from a couple of years ago was excellent.

Who was trying to remember who the wife was in that. It was It was What's wrong with me? Black Widow. What's her name? Oh, Scarlet Johansson, right, yes. Yeah, that was actually really good too.

Yeah, I don't, I've, honestly, I don't think I've seen the thing I didn't like it. Yeah, he's great. Go watch that weird Scorsese movie. If there's one thing that could make me potentially watch girls, watch the TV show Girls, it's Adam Driver. Yeah, he's interesting on it. I could barely handle that show, though. I don't think, I don't know if I can handle the rest of it. I don't know why.

It's just not for me. It's for someone else. And that's fine. Somebody else can enjoy it, but it just didn't speak to me. It was weird. Yeah. I think I need to buck up and watch Euphoria just because I hear so many good things about. There are really great things about Euphoria.

I really like Euphoria. Yeah. But I will also say that Euphoria is extremely uncomfortable. It's one of the most uncomfortable shows I ever saw. And it earns every bit of that. uncomfort but uh i don't know the acting's real good that's all i can say about that one one last complete uh thing before we go complete a different direction um but it's tv related just watched the episode last night or a couple nights ago of what we do in the shadows that is the go flip

yourself uh from the most recent season are you caught up on i don't we're we have one season we're not caught up to so i probably so this is this is part of that season um i love that show and I laugh at every single episode this one had me in tears it was so damn funny and so damn accurate yes oh gosh we got a cat carter and i've been talking about getting caught up because we watched the whole thing together and then we got busy and then the holidays and everything else and we just haven't saw that seen that last season but yeah when that's not the end right they're still doing more after this i think as far as i know yeah it's not canceled no i haven't heard anything about uh about it being canceled god i hope not because i feel like it's you know it's it's it's

One of the funniest things on TV right now. That's a small thing, but I'm just going to mention it. Sure. I'm watching Fargo, of course, because Fargo's awesome. Are you? Are you now? There's an episode that reminded me at home alone, weirdly, but you'll know when you get to it. It's not a big thing.

Really? Okay. Does John Hamm smack somebody in the face with a paint bucket on a string? No, but you're not wrong about what kind of happens. It's just a matter of who it happens to. I love it. It's pretty great. But anyway, the reason I'm bringing this up is, what was I bringing it up?

Oh, his name, that character's name is Roy. Right, right. And I was like, why do I know this name? Why do I know the name Roy? Yeah. Or this character name Roy. And it was bugging me and bugging me and bugging me. So I did a little bit of deep diving.

Yeah. Sure enough. He's the husband of the woman who got kidnapped in the first movie, in the movie, right? No. No. Oh. So the connection is his name, for some reason, is written on a wall and paint in the 1978 set season two of Fargo. Okay.

And I don't know why. I don't know why Roy's name is up on this wall. It's his full name, too, not just his first name. But he would have been a kid then. Uh-huh. And why is his name there and then why are they showing him now? Not that it needs to make sense, but I really get into those stupid little things. Yeah.

Like, I heard over the speaker at a car dealership there was a scene in. I hear a lady go, don't forget to ask about our true coat. It's the best thing of the thing. That's a nice callback to the movie. I love shit like that. I love when they do that. Cool. Man, that show is good.

Yeah, much better to have these really weird, loose, tendril connections than a flat out, you know, here's the character played by a different actor from the movie. And here's this. Like, have these little tiny, weird connections that, that, we have in life that... Yeah, they're more apocryphal, right? They almost feel mythic. And they do that intro every time

with the whole, you know, we're presenting the details as exactly as they are out of respect for those who died or whatever. It's all bullshit. And you know it going in. And so because of that, you, you like... To me, this is why, okay, I know people hate when I do this. But this is why I love Fury Road and the Furiosa trailer

because the stuff they do there are, again, loose tendrils. If you really think too hard, if you think too hard about trying to make sense of the timeline you'll go crazy don't do that just enjoy the little tendrils like you coined there it's a perfect way to say it and just enjoy those weird little connections that's the fun bit and i think that's why these two things resonate for me so much i love it all right uh let's move on to some news we got some let's do it it's time for the news brought to you by brought to you by coverville which is coming up yesterday at 9.30 a.m. Be sure to listen in yesterday morning at 9.30 a.m. Yeah, did an episode of Coverville since we didn't have a TMS and I had everything kind of ready, prepared. Did it yesterday morning, but don't worry, it's a podcast.

You can go back and listen to it. And you'll be treated very well if you do because it is my annual Christmas episode. But I kind of turned it on its head for this one. Christmas songs that aren't really Christmas songs. Um, you and I talk Scott on the show about the Linus and Lucy song and why people associate that with Christmas. Right. Um, Holiday Road by Lindsay Buckingham of my favorite things from Sound of Music. And these aren't inherently Christmas songs, but we connect them with Christmas and why do we?

Um, and then I even go as far as like songs like jingle bells, winter wonderland, things like that that are accepted Christmas songs, even though there's no mention of Christmas in them at all. And really it's just, uh, is it? cold? Yeah, it must be a Christmas song. So, listen to covers of all of these by folks like Remy Wolf, love Remy Wolf, Kim Wild, Phoebe Bridgers, Bela Fleck in the Flecktones, and Kylie Minogue.

Oh my gosh. All of this at coverville.com. Most recent episode is up and ready for you to listen to. Kylie Minogue. Kylie Minogue. That's awesome. Real quick, here, I'll put it in our Discord to end on the chat here, but I've decided

you mentioned Holiday Road, and it reminded me of this thing I saw. Now that I would buy that I would buy in a heartbeat Yeah if you're if you're saying to me Hey Scott do you want a cyber truck My answer is usually no

I think they're weird under tested There's problems I don't I don't love them But if you said it was like this With the wood paneling and the green body and everything The family cyber truckster Yeah I love it I think I might drive it I think it might do it That you know what

That might be the way that Because it's basically a blank slate It's a blank silver slate. And people can mod it up to look like the Millennium Falcon. They can mod it up to look like the Ecto 1. I mean, this is kind of where the cyber truck might find a perfect audience. It's modders. I think it could be a good, what's the, what's the car and back to the future?

The Deleurion. Delorean. You could DeLorean that thing up. Which itself was kind of a. a plain silver car, but still. All right, time for me to take my brain shot. All right, let's see how it affects me. Oh, yeah.

I might have thought I've already taken it by how quickly I'm rattling. Yeah, no, yes, the other day, you were definitely hyped. Let's see if it does it today, T, or not. I should take one of this. I don't like the little, I don't like the, the, the, the, the, the, the grindy bed at the bottom. You know what I mean? Like where it's settled. I shake the, I shake the crap out of it before I, I still get it.

I still get like a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a leho paint. Yeah. Yes. it is like that gross yeah that is a tasty yeah they're good i like them they're good like cram full of sugar that helps i think is it no i don't want to know that a little bit i don't think it's a lot but it's

you know enough to taste good you know it's two fluid ounces oh my god and there's i've even got readers on and i'm having a hard time reading the text on this uh oh it's like one point two point text it's ridiculous it's teeny tiny yeah good luck with that um Yeah, I'll have a link for folks. We're doing this as a, we're doing this as a sponsorship of our own soundography, but there's nothing that says I can't share the link here. Yeah, no, why not? Give them a thing.

Yeah. They're good. I have a whole batch, and I don't even know where I got them. I didn't do an ad thing. Oh, really? They just sent him to you. They showed up. Sometimes this happens, like how Dunaway and I were supposed to get beef sticks,

but everyone but Dunaway got Breesicks. Everyone, but Dunaway got them. I know. Everyone, like the core guys, Canada. Everybody got beef sticks, but, but the guy who was, supposed to get beef sticks. Canada. I guess I got them too, but.

Anyway, here's a story for you. There's a sea creature that they believe can fight cancer. They break it down and use it in cancer studies. It seems like it's actually doing good things. But it looks like a turd. Oh, no! Yeah, I'm going to show you this. So you all can see it.

Oh, God. I'm dreading it. It is a turd-like object. There you go. Sea turd. Great things can come in small, slightly repulsive, packages, says this article. Scientist in the Philippines of detailed, excuse me, the great things, sorry, detailed molecular secrets of the sticktipus C.F. Horan's. Sure. I don't know.

There's only one T in there, so, but I think it's pretty much, pretty much nailed it. Stichipus. Sticapus. Stickapus. Sticapus? I don't think I like that. Stichipus. I don't love it. C cucumber species that bears more. more than a passing resemblance to something else, they say. Their findings indicate these animals contain civil compounds that could potentially benefit humans, including anti-cancer agents. It's a sea cucumber native to Southeast Asia that's well known to marine researchers and locals for its unique characteristics.

These invertebrates will quickly shut off their external surface when touched by something as a defense mechanism. For example, like other sea cucumbers, they're also highly prized and sold in some countries for either food or traditional medicine. but they think it might actually have some a studiable thing. Anyway, it just looks like a turd.

That's the... Yeah, and it, there is no... It's not... It kind of looks like a turd. No, I mean, that looks like a... It looks like a...

Yeah. Like a waterlogged poop. It's been in the water too long. You ate a lot of cocoa puffs. That is what your poop would look like. Yep. Rice Krispies. If you're cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

Yeah, if you scroll down, if you scroll down, you get a more of a green one. This one looks like... This one looks like trouble. Maybe talk to your doctor if you're having these. I wouldn't recommend that. Anyway, there you go. Thanks, Gizmodo, technology site for talking about turd sea creatures.

Next up, we'll stay in the sugary cereal realm. Okay, good, thank you. Not really cereal, but breakfast food, I suppose. Anyway, a thief has stolen a crispy cream band with 10,000 donuts inside. Oh, man. Oh, geez. That's a lot. that's a 10,000 donuts that's a whole city having a

of 10,000 subpar donuts I know there's a lot of love for crispy cream a lot of it uh a lot of it doesn't come from me none of it comes from me I kind of agree they're fine they're fine you know in a pinch someone brings in someone brings in me a box of crispy cream donuts I don't worry I will consume the whole thing

but um but I'm not like if you if you say that uh there's a crispy cream a mile away and a Lamar's donuts 10 miles away. I'm taking the extra time I'm getting Lamar's donuts. Yeah, you'll spend that gas in that time. Same. I'll absolutely spend that gas. They had their deal on the 12th, because it was 1212,

by one dozen, get a second dozen for a dollar. And even that didn't appeal to me enough. Well, the fact that I don't need to go out and buy 24 donuts probably was the big reason. I didn't do it. But even... Even getting one of those boxes for a buck wasn't enough to enthrall me. They have other kinds, like the chocolate-y-covered ones and, like, goo inside and all that. Those are all kind of bad.

They're not good at all. Like, I think that the standard donut they're famous for, like it or not, it's their hallmark, right? It's their thing. But when they try to make other stuff, and they're like, well, here's a bearclaw, F off. I don't know what you're doing Doesn't taste right That's not as good Yeah

Get Dunford cake donuts You guys are the best There you go Anyway A crispy cream delivery van Containing 10,000 fresh donuts Has been stolen Not really fresh now are they

No No According to the donut chain The van was on route To various delivery sites in Newcastle When it was stolen From a Carling Ford service station Never heard of a Carling

This is Australia I didn't realize Krispy cream was in Australia. Yeah, it surprises me. Lucky Phil, are you down with the, have we checked on Lucky Phil to make sure he's not the donut thief, the donut bandit? Oh, no, what if you, see, I don't see him in the chat today. What's he doing? He's sitting there eating 10,000 donuts is what he's doing. Dude.

It's not a donut. This is not a donut either. Nope, this one's not a donut. Nope, none of these are donuts. All 10,000 of these are donuts. All 10,000 of these donuts. All 10,000. None of these are donuts.

I don't see him in the chat. I don't think he's here to reply. Anyway, they're trying to replace all 10,000 donuts and get them to their proper destinations. I'm guessing that'll be easy. I can't have. They're not really like expecting those donuts. Like, we're going to find those donuts and we're going to, even though they've been stolen, we're going to assume that they haven't been tainted in any way and we're going to take them to where they need to go.

I would hope not, man. No, I think they write off those donuts. It's probably more the truck than they're there. Yeah, get the truck. It's funny here, though. It says the thief is believed to be a woman. It's a weird thing to add. Because they're not giving us any other description, so what's the point?

Why would you tell me the gender of the driver? I don't know why you'd do that. I don't know. That's right. Yes. I don't know. Anyway, it's fine if you do that and then go with long, curly black hair. Right, exactly.

Give us a description. Yes, we know what we're looking for. Because she did not refuse to ask for directions when she stopped somewhere. Is that how they know she was a woman? I guess. She pulled the truck over and asked somebody for directions instead of thinking that she could figure it out herself. What if there was only one woman? Oh, there's Lucky Phil.

What does he say in the chat? Harry says, I know, Honor Collingford. Oh, he grew up close to this area. Oh, okay. Do you, what is your Lucky Phil? What are your thoughts on Krispy Cream? Are you, I don't know what they, you know. Yeah, what are the Australians?

What kind of presents they have in, in Australia? Yeah, because I would have thought. I don't know. It seems like a chain I would never expect to make it all the way there. Yeah, totally. And you know, here's a great example of the hype bubble. When they first came to Colorado, lines around the block. Oh, yeah. And people like spending the night there to be the first ones to get Krispy Kreme donuts. Same within an Out Burger.

It's like, yeah, it's an adequate donut. It's an adequate burger. But it's not, it's certainly nothing that I would wait more than 10 minutes, 15 minutes to get. Fully agree. We did that with Krispy Kreme when it came out. I guess we got our first one. And oh, geez, that would have been before I'd left there. So probably early 2000. Oh, this was when you were in Mountain.

Eagle Mountain, yeah. So it would have been, and me and a bunch of people at the company I worked for, drove down there and waited like an hour in line. It was so stupid. So stupid. And they weren't that good. It was like, oh, okay, this is what everyone's freaking out about. And then when we got in and out some years later, same thing.

And then when we got canes, raising cane, holy shit just wrecked traffic on that corner for like two weeks because the lines usually extend out into the regular street and it's like what the heck and raising canes you know it's good again it's it's really the sauce is really the chicken is as good as good as any other chicken place i think yeah but it's the sauce and you probably can find that recipe online for what's in cane sauce yeah all these things you can make your own crispy cream donuts if you just do what the internet doesn't no scott you need a conveyor belt That flips the donuts over into the oil for a certain amount of time. Isn't the deal that they're potato-based or something? Is that their whole thing? Is there not? Oh, is it there? Something like that, right?

Something like potatoes or, I can't remember. Krispy Cream's whole thing is confusing to me. Let's move on to this one. Woolworths. Oh, we have no time. Never mind. It's time. We're going to take a break.

I was going to take advantage of the Woolworth's time to pull up the information about the song we're about to pull. play that's a shame i'll tell you i will tease it though and say that uh monday you'll have a story about maggots and roast chicken in woolworths so get excited oh wow all right be there for that yeah and this is an australian story as well also australia so uh there's there's your there's your don't spoil it for yourself folks and google maggots uh yeah don't look up maggots australia woolworths okay i guess woolworths is still a big deal in australia uh lucky phil may be able to decline that or not But places I think of is like 70s, early 80s stores here.

The soda counter. Yeah. It's weird. All right. We're going to take a break. When we get back from this break, my sister's going to show up and we're going to read a thing. Actually, I'm not going to read it. I'm going to play a file.

Oh, I was going to say, do you want me to read it. Oh, I could have had you do it. I didn't think of that. We got an AI who did it and gratefully did it because my throat's in no shape for this. Dear Therapy Thursday. I thought about it. I really thought about it. I didn't do it, but I thought about it. Good.

Anyway, that's all coming up after this. Hey, Brian, what are we playing for this? We're going to Munich for this, Van. This is a band called Cadet Carter, not Agent Carter, not Captain Carter, but Cadet Carter. Lead singer is a guy named Nick Souter, and he says, Lift Me Up is a song about always wanting what you don't have at the moment. The song is about how confusing it can be to not know exactly what you want, and above all to never know what you actually need in order to be happy

and to be able to look positively into the future. I don't know about that, but I think it's a pretty damn good song. This is from their upcoming or their brand new album, Self Maintenance. Here is the band Cadet Carter and the song Lift Me Up. You are down in the placement, I am open the clouds, I'm far away right now. I am into the forest, you are into the streets, there ain't no common ground. What do we do with all the time? Not on the call with what we find

Grass is always greener anyway Why do you see so different? Is it because of ignorance? I guess I guess you just can't have it all at once in Hey don't bring me down Leave it all behind You leave me up this time

We've got all we need I ain't just the way that I have always been Oh, they say that he used to play You're like this thing to play I'll go for a lonely and giving up all right What do we do with all the change Turning around and rearranged and then go into it all again Why do we seem so different

Is it because it wins? I guess you just can't have it all of yourself. Hey, don't bring me down, leave it all behind and lift me up this time. Please get out all we need. I insist the wind and I have always been. It's not how I remember it. Hey, don't bring me down, leave it all behind and lift me up this time. Time

Of this time We've got all we need I ain't just the way that I have always been For this is what it used to be It's not all I remember Of this time It's not where I remember Hey don't bring me down

Hey don't bring me down Hey don't bring me down Leave it all behind And lift me up this time Please get out all we need I is just the way that I have always been It's not how I remember it Hey, don't bring me down, leaving all the eye, and lift me up this town.

We've got to believe. I am just the way that I have always been. But this is what I used to me. I'm a boy, I'm giving up right. Definitely wanted to do. You are doing the patience. We are most of the country. We're right now

No, how I remember it Pye in minutes Missus Miss Miss Spye in minutes In just ten minutes You've got it made I stretched them, I pulled them But my panty holes were still too small Do tell me who that was one more time.

I totally will. That's Cadet Carter and a song called Lift Me Up from their brand new album, Self Maintenance. Nice. I'm going to do a little self-maintenance myself. I'm doing some self-maintenance right now. At some point, you got to maybe capture a little audio from the wing song Santa Claus on a helicopter for our coming back from a break. Oh, that sounds all right. I haven't heard of that.

Yeah. Okay. It's in our, I'll give you a link. our, uh, it's in the TMS chatter, uh, discord. I'm in. It's glorious. All right. It is glorious.

I like glorious things are my jam. I like them. Yeah. All right. Let's get Wendy in here. She is, uh, halfway, well, no, more than halfway across the country from here, I guess. I don't know. Let's measure it.

Let's measure it. Minnesota is approximately, oh, geez, I don't know how far. I don't want to do the math. That sounds like math. There's a lot of math. Yeah, we don't want to, nobody wants to do that math. Let's see. How many?

Oh, you really are doing the math. Well, I get to wait for Wendy anyway, so. Oh, it's true. All right. How many miles from SLC to St. Paul? Let's say. Okay. Now we're going to get the math.

Okay. Distance between St. Paul, Minnesota, and Salt Lake City, Utah. It looks like it would take us to drive it. 18 hours, 18 minutes. Okay. Gas is going to cost you about $218.13,000, or sorry, 1,310 miles from here. 1,310. And so what will be the next, like, will you go to, like, Portland, Maine or what's your, what's the, what are we halfway to, the coast?

What are we halfway to? See, this didn't help me at all, because all I did was figure out how far away St. Paul is. Wendy, we're just trying to figure out if you're half the country away from us or longer or shorter. We don't know. We don't know. know this? What? I mean,

I don't know. You don't know. I got a lot of other stuff prepped. I did not know I needed a geography brain. I think also you might be on your laptop. Oh, I think, yeah, you're on your other mic again. Oh, geez. Oh, yeah, that would be it right there.

Yeah, that made a sound. Okay. How's that sound? Oh, much better. Yeah. A world of difference. I need to throw my phone away. Rather than fix the problem, I just throw the phone.

Just throw away your phone. I think that solves so many problems. And I think there are a lot of people I think who need to throw their phone away. I agree with that. I'll explain the situation to Wendy. Don't worry. Oh, listen, it's Wendy's turn to be here on a Thursday and talk about stuff. Wendy, it's always nice having you here.

Hope you had a nice week and all that. I did. And everyone's good and healthy. I end up catching some horrible cold. It reminds me of something you had a while back. And I thought of you. Yeah, I feel like I got it first. The rest of the country has it now.

You guys is terrible. I'm so sorry. You beta tested it for the rest of us. Thank you for doing that. Yeah, something going around for sure. I was in, I was telling Brian, the reason I bring this up, I was telling Brian that I had a dream during it. And whenever you're sick, you have the worst dreams, right? They're always just so weird.

And in this dream, Misha, our sister Misha, died suddenly without any warning, but then appeared as a ghost the whole time to try to calm everybody down. And so it was me and you and Ken and me and mom was there. And for some reason, John was just handfuls eating weed gum. just eating weed gummies. I forgot to bear it. I buried the headline. John's eating weed gummies like Handlerfest. Sorry, sorry to break this to you, but yeah, it was weird. It was weird, though, but she would, she'd float around as a ghost and say, it's fine, you guys, no big deal. It's all good here. I'm, you know, I'll still be here as a ghost or whatever.

But in the, in the dream, that seemed really, I don't know, it just seemed so real. I hated it. I almost called you when I woke up. Yeah, I know. It was awful. So anyway, fever dreams. F those. They're lame. I don't like them. Yeah. that. Let's get to today's thing. So we got this big long email in response to our request for people to discuss the idea of objectification. Yeah. And it was the perfect email. It is absolutely perfect. It's a little long ago and my voice is garbage or it's starting to be. So I'm

going to play this audio. I made an audio version of it. And it will read just fine. So here it is. And let's talk on the other side. Hello, Wendy, Scott and Brian. My wife and I, married for 20 years now, just had a lengthy conversation about objectifying, and I wanted to share it. We were discussing when it is and isn't okay to check someone out. This conversation mostly revolves around when someone is wearing something that is revealing or appealing to what you are physically attracted to. I was arguing that it should be okay if someone catches your eye. You mentally say to yourself, wow, she, he, they are hot and move on with your day without leering or making comments towards the person. My wife said that as a woman, she wants to be able to

wear what she feels comfortable in and wants to wear without the fear of someone interacting with her. Through this conversation, I realized that on one level, I objectify the people I see that I find attractive and justify that to myself as everyone does it. So it should be okay. As long as I am not making people feel uncomfortable, speaking with my wife about it made me feel a little more sinister is the best word I can come up with. I also spoke with some close friends. I also spoke with some close friends who said they don't have the same issue of checking out people they find attractive. This also led into the conversation of do they deserve or should be expected to be looked at because of what they are wearing or how they look. Of course, everyone can agree that they should

never feel in danger because of what they wear, how they look. It also feels like victim blaming to say they should expect to be looked at if they are wearing something that the general public would view as revealing sexy. We also discuss that in a perfect world. Someone would be able to display somehow that they either are or are not okay with being seen this way and that everyone would respect those wishes like some kind of pin or something because of this conversation i found myself taking a deeper look at my thoughts actions and am trying to gain better control over the way i look at people i didn't realize how often i would objectify people i didn't know and how often i objectify my wife at times this is also complicated by the fact there was a time in our

life together, where my wife like to be objectified, and as she is getting older and wiser, she does not appreciate that from me or other people. To her own admission, this is in part to her feeling like she is looking older and less attractive, and also the fact she has social anxieties. It makes me wonder how often people subconsciously objectify people in our lives, whether that be physically or just seeing people in our lives that have become a literal fixture and take that for granted. I feel it's good for us to once in a while take into question our own actions. And regardless if people feel objectified or not, just taking more time to check in with ourselves and better understand how we view and treat people in our own minds. Feel free to reach out if you

have any other questions, etc. Okay. Really good response based on what we asked for. And it got me to thinking about, you know, how hard it is. I was at the mall the other day and it was it was impossible for me to not notice a pretty woman, right? Over there looking at a kiosk or something and have me, even if it's just a quick glance to go, oh, she's, she's good looking and then just move on. And I never think about that. Like I'm sure most people don't think about that. So let's dive in, Wendy. Where do you want to start with this? It's kind of a heavy one or it's a big one. Where do you want to go? Let's start. Was this woman 54 years old? She was probably not. Probably in her 30s if I had to guess. She's probably 30 something.

Yeah. So there's TV age, right? TV age is 18 to whenever things start sagging, which is, you know, it's later and later, but about 40-ish, right? So that's TV age. And that is the kind of prime time where a lot of this is happening, right? So this is why you have creepy old men who are 54 checking you out because that age is where we, you know, collectively we feel or, I don't know, and this isn't true for everyone. Okay, let's be clear. But that look of that agelessness area, that block of time tends to be what most people are attracted to. So it's rarely that you're finding someone attractive who's in your same age range as you age because that we're going to talk about what the difference is there because, well, let's back up.

What is objectifying? We're using the word, kind of throwing it around and this person used the word a lot. I love this email. This was really great because they mental therapy themselves by the end, which was awesome. He was bringing away your job, though, is the problem. I love it. Please, take away my job. What I loved about it specifically was talk.

talking to a person who has experienced this, right? So talking to their wife about how that's changed over time. And what's interesting is this comment. Let me just, where did it go? What's hard is, or what's interesting, I think, is the word he used, is that my wife used to like to be objectified. And I'm like, well, dude, no, wrong word. That's not what she used to like.

So some people will give confused attention with objectification. they're very different things. So we're going to break it down into what these things really mean. But I also really like how he then checked with other people. Like, let me find out. Did some of his own research. And when I say own research, I don't mean bull crap research. I mean, you ask 10 people in your life if they think like you and they don't.

That's your own, literally your own research. So I like that and it was great. Okay. And then I like the end where it was like, let's be better. Okay. So let's talk about what objectification means. When you hear that word, you guys, how would you describe it? I mean, the bottom line is seeing somebody as an object and not as a person.

Right. And more specifically, it's like, Brian's absolutely right. But if I, it's not like I see somebody and go, they are like a lamp. That is an attractive thing right there. Yeah. It's more like I'm looking at their attractiveness, minding. all other human connection definition, whatever other words you want to use.

In other words, it's like, they are only that thing. So they are, let's say the word hot. They are hot, and that's all they are. I know nothing else about them. And I have built a very closed system around what is hot. And that is all they are to me. That feels like objectification to me. Yeah.

Okay. So one clear demarcation. is I don't want to know anything else about this person. I don't care to know their name. I don't care to think about what their job is or, right? They are an object. And so we're going to get into what's fun about what we have learned about the brain in this. But basically, the definition is the act of treating a person as an object or a thing. And then there's parts of this. Okay. So we can do that on a big scale, you know, fill in the blank, slavery, illegal immigrants, right? You can just start to put large groups of people, Japanese folks during World War II, like you start to treat people as things which dehumanizes them, right?

They are a problem, not a person. We do it politically all the time. It's like that. All the time. Yeah, that person with pink hair or whatever must be a community. complete, quote unquote, libtard, and that's all they are and that's all the lever be. And that guy in a red hat is nothing but a redneck, you know, mega lover or whatever. And that's all the lover be.

We do it all the time. And then subsets of objectification as the ones you guys are referring to, which is what most of us usually think about, is sexual objectification. And that's the act of treating a person as a mere object of sexual desire and nothing else. I don't want to know your name. And then self-objectification, have you guys heard of this? No. No. Okay.

Well, we'll talk about it because that's, this is going to be a, I'm trying to think of how, yeah, all right. Okay. And then there is a Marxist version of things, which is objectification of social relationships. Anyway, we're not going to go into that. We're going to talk about sexual objectification and then self-objectification. Those are kind of the most, the ones we're all spending the most time, sort of. managing okay um all right so here's well okay i'm going to have you guys guess when let's we're going to do sexual objectification for now most of the time at least historically it has been

men objectifying women women can obviously objectify men as well um but that's kind of the the research and long history of that and you know feels like a no-brainer to sort of talk about so let's just start with this what do you think it feels like And he referenced this with his wife in the email a little bit. What do you think it feels like to be objectified? Maybe you guys have experienced it. Tell me, what's it like to be? I don't think I've, well, I don't think I've ever been objectified.

But obviously, as a person getting leered at or stared at and whistled at or whatever, I mean, those are extreme cases, just, you know, kind of the longer look kind of thing. you're seeing that somebody is is only um only seeing the the outside appearance which which can be fleeting or which can be made up or or or um augmented sort of thing and so that you feel like wow if i didn't have this makeup on this person you know this person would be ignoring me and is the only thing that's making this person look at me. Right. Yes. Yes. And if you take kind of the, the, what that feels like to experience and this is going to resonate to anyone who has been objectified in multiple ways or over a lifespan is there

is an impact on you that affects your mental health, absolutely, which because, think of it is your one quality thing that you cannot control for the most. part, just is what it is, is now all that you are. And so it can lead to all sorts of... Like, what happens if I lose this? Do I become nobody? 100%. Our obsession with you.

Yeah. Aging, our obsession with beauty, all of those things is because we have absolutely internalized this experience. So there's a great quote from a couple of researchers that talks about this. It says, perhaps the most profound and pervasive of these experiences is the disruption of the flow of consciousness that results in. results as many girls and women internalize the cultural practice. So essentially like, okay, you're walking along and you see someone you know they're looking at

you and objectifying you, it interrupts your flow of consciousness. It interrupts everything you're doing, right? And then reaffirms that you are just your body or just your appearance, right? So this happens over and over and over. And then you could just take what social media has done with this, what has always been the case. And then we've got this sort of victim blaming on the other end. of, well, you wore a thing, which means you're to blame for every, for the male gaze doing whatever the male gaze decides to do, right? And so you have this going back and forth and this,

this is what leads to what we call self-objectification. So if you are being treated like an object, and then how do you respond to that? Hmm. I guess it depends on what the input is. So for example, this hot chick at a kiosk in the mall. Yeah. And probably a, a woman with some children. And you are objectifying her, Scott, and say she looks up and sees you and feels objectified. What are her options?

Well, it's... Well, first, let's be clear about what I was actually... Let's be clear about what was actually going on. So I just want to make this clear. This sounds really bad, Scott. You better explain yourself. I wasn't like some kind of slobbery, Tex-Avery a cartoon character who sees a girl in his eyes pop out. It wasn't like that. It was just like,

I don't know, I just noticed she looked like a very nice looking person. I didn't go, oh man, I can't why. I wish I could go. It wasn't like that. Let's pretend it doesn't matter what you were thinking. No, I'm sure it doesn't. I'm sure it doesn't. She felt objectified. Yeah, yeah. No, this is good. So I just wanted that. What could she do? If, if now again, you've got to think of the ramifications of being objectified is it has a, it takes a toll on your sense of worth as a complete person. Now, the high of like, oh, I'm getting attention is not unfounded. That happens, right? Sure. And often men are like, I'd love if people did this with me. You're like, okay, but you wouldn't, actually, if they didn't want you to ever open your mouth. Right.

Or they didn't want to know you completely, right? It's just they were staring at your butt. Yeah. And they're like, yeah, it's great. Well, okay, let's do it for generations and generations. I promise you, you wouldn't think it was great. All right. Here's what I would do. If I were her, I'm putting myself in her position, she could do the standard turnaround

and go take a picture. It'll last longer and then leave. You know, like one of those things. She's too young for that phrase. But yeah. Yeah, right. Well, I don't know. Like I said, she wasn't like in her 30s.

I don't want people thinking there's some 12 year old girl there or something. I know. I got to. She's 30. She can vote. She could have said, yes, she could definitely vote. She could turn around and say that or she could do what most people probably do, which is ignore it and hope I go away. That's probably what most people do, right?

If they notice it at all. Like if they see that there's some dude looking at him in a Walmart or something, I'm guessing most just want to get out of there. Right. Is that true? I don't know. Yeah. Want to get out of there? And the only way to manage it, so you're not internalizing it would be to externalize it, right?

Which might be take a picture it lasts longer or, excuse me, do you need something? Yeah, to become a thing, a real person instead of an object. Yeah. To break that barrier between what I was looking at, which was somebody who's never going to interact with me and so I can look however I want and think whatever I want. Yeah, it's a picture. You're right. Yeah, you're totally right. And if she then made herself real.

And maybe not you, but what would someone then, how would that response be? Oh, I would be like, I'd hate it. I'd be like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I didn't, I didn't mean to. That's not, I'm sorry. That's not what I was that. Yeah. Yeah, you would try to explain yourself and none of it would sound right.

And it wouldn't matter because in this case, it's less about what you feel and more about what she feels. Oh, 100%. Yeah. So the fact that, the fact that you would sit there or stand there and fumble around with your words trying to explain yourself. would just show that you that you were totally objectifying this person. Have you guys ever heard of this online where a woman doesn't look how someone expects

and then gets just tons of hate for it? Like you didn't shave your armpits, you're the most disgusting thing in the world or you, you know, just think of that concept. Maybe in person people could behave a little bit better, but online they do not, right? When an object refuses to be an object,

the response is usually anger. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And more dehumanization. It's like, let me put you back into object mode, take out the humanity. And there's a really strong reaction to that. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely see that online a lot. Yeah. And you give somebody the option of anonymity in there, you know, they turn into the worst version of themselves. Right. And whereas if someone in public call them out, they might have been quiet, but they're going to go and tell everyone this horrible person did the same. You know, like that lack of self-reveillance.

awareness, you know, and what that is is legitimately a real thing. You're defending your behavior, defending that you objectified another person. Because it is actually nothing anybody wants. Nobody wants to feel like they're being treated like an object. No one wants to see themselves that they are objectifying others, right? And so that's what I loved about this email too. He's like, I'm going to take the full journey and find out, oh, wait, I actually kind of do this, right? As if it's like a right.

I have the right to check out someone. What's the difference between this and say, I don't know, you're out. This will use the mall again. You're at the mall and you see somebody who's on crutches missing a leg. It's hard not to notice because it breaks your norms, right? You're like, oh, yeah, right. Some people only have one leg. Or let's say somebody's half their face is burned off.

That's different, right? Or is it the same? Because you're still kind of objectifying. You don't know them. You're seeing them just as a, that is a person with a part of their face burned off as opposed to, that's a person who's, you know, got a life at home, enjoys working in his garden, blah, blah, blah, blah. Way more able than I'm giving him credit for, all those things. Is that the same problem? I think it's the same problem.

I think one ingredient really matters with at least sexual objectification is that it's for your pleasure. Now, staring at someone who has a physical oddity might also be a weird kind of pleasure in terms of like, oh, like curiosity or, you know, that, again, objectifying. Like, think of early Barnum and Bailey stuff, you know, like these objects are for my entertainment. Look at the bearded lady. Oh, yeah, 100%. You don't really want to see them as it. And someone may be listening to this going, well, what are we supposed to do about this? This is just human, right?

Yeah. Because some of this at its very base is we are visual processors as a species. So we are going to process visually. It gives us lots of shortcuts so we know how to assess someone. That is what stereotyping is. It's like, oh, I can take a shortcut and think of you in this way. And now I don't have to actually do any work. Right.

And so, but here's the thing. Like if you look at a woman who you find attractive in the eyes, that's a different thing, potentially, you could still be objectifying that way, but if you're just looking at her body, that's going to be a different experience for that, both the receiver and for the person looking. Like, I'm noticing attractiveness and then I can't stop staring at her boobs, right? There's a different thing happening there because it's not the full person. And here's the thing. Everyone's going to look and be like, whoa, whoa, that was attractive, moving on. Like, you don't want to beat yourselves up. You're not all terrible human beings.

However, this is where just being aware of this can be really helpful. So a couple of research studies that I just found, I mean, it has impact. Let me just say that. It has a lot of impact on how society functions, especially for those who are overly sexualized, which tend to be more women than men. I don't know. Sometimes I feel like men are trying to get in this game. It's like, you guys don't want to join this game. You don't want to be a part of this.

It's not fun. Yeah. Okay. And so actually, let me define what self-objectification is. That is this concept of, well, I'll make sure that I'll start playing. The idea is that you are essentially turning the view of others that have made you an object because you're viewing, you're in the same world as everybody else, right? But you are turning that objectifying towards yourself. So it's a result of that.

but and everybody struggles with this and it's a little more common with women but it's the process where you internalize everyone else's justification of you so real quick does this resonate with anyone your body doesn't look right well where'd you get that idea from first of all if you really look at everyone's bodies you're all pretty normal nobody right exactly everybody's bodies look right for them right you know but if it doesn't look right for you where did you learn that it's not right. We get those ideals from TV, from, from movies, from, you know, basically saying, this is what people should look like, commercials, beauty ads, things like that. Sometimes your parents. And constant communication that's related to appearance, constant.

Like, even in just your regular conversations to what's advertised to you, to all the, you know, no one looks right. Then we have this fun app where we all stare at pictures of each other and ourselves. And we, I mean, taking selfies, I love to think about this every once in a while. I'm just like someone in my high school took one single picture of themselves in the hall at school would have been social suicide. Like, what a weirdo, right? Yeah. Like, there's no way anyone even thought to do that.

And if they did, it was to be silly. It was something else. It was not, look how good I look, right? Like it, you know, and maybe I could be wrong. I missed a whole subset of people in high school. But I'm pretty sure because it was. was just not norm. And now it is so norm to have more pictures of yourself on your phone than other pictures, right? And then we see that self-objectification. What are you doing?

Am I looking at my grades? Am I looking at my kindness when I am taking a selfie? What am I doing? I am looking at how I look, right? And hyper-focusing on that, being critical of that, and in the end, objectifying myself, right? right um are you familiar with the song oh dang it i'm going to get it wrong um basically it's is it what's her name you guys you're going to watch my brain fail definitely definitely her this is a real this is a johnson moment but that was what she wouldn't she decided to go solo go indie oh stop it oh my gosh i'm never going to get it anyway but basically like it's something like um like the sexy girls it doesn't feel cold oh come on i should have looked it up because i know i'd forget

it. Wait, I ring a bell. What is that? Is it new? No, it's older, right? It doesn't feel cold.

Somebody Google this for me really quick. I'm doing it. I'm trying. I have no idea. It's not Cardi B? This is, you want, is it Cardi B? Oh, it is Cardi B?

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, all right. And what's the lie? When looking hot means not feeling cold evidence that self-objectification inhibits feelings of being cold? Yeah, a ho never gets cold. That's it.

A ho never gets cold. So there's a, so there's a. So there's actually research on this, and this was one of the studies I wanted to tell you about. So one of the studies is literally that when you self-objectify, you don't experience certain things the same way. You experience them more like an object. Like you literally don't record the cold quite the same and some other kind of numbing experiences. So when I have people come into my practice and they're like, I'm really numb and I'm numb to this and that. Like definitely if it's a female, we will go down the road of.

who has essentially taught you, you're an object, right? I don't say it like that, exactly. But if you have too many feelings that I have nowhere to go or no one listens to, you'll, they'll be numbed, right? And so this self-objectification can lead to this too, where you literally feel less, which is interesting. And what were they found? They've done a bunch of studies.

They put people in fMRI machines and we watch their brain activity. And the wildest thing to me, this, Because you know it on one hand, but when it's confirmed, it freaks me out. And that is when someone is objectifying, like a hypersexualized image of a woman and they are in the act of objectifying her for sexual reasons, what happens in their brain, all that lights up. We can do the same thing if they're looking at an object, like an actual object. Their brain will do similar things even though it's a person. So let's say it's a car that you really want, like a sports car or something. You get those same regions of the brain will light up when you.

Yeah, something I want. So it's got the reward centers kind of activated, of course. But it's also just like a ball or like, you know, a toy truck. It doesn't have to be something you desperately want either. And that is how we process what objects are. So this ties into what we talked about last time. Remember, we were like, we infuse personality into objects all the time, right? Yeah.

Our movie. We name our cars. Yes. Right? All of those things. It's like. the reverse actually exists with an actual human. Right, the anthropomorphization of our objects and the optimization of our humans.

Right. Is that why there's so many people are so stoked about the idea of artificial humans, but you see this in AI a lot. It's like, oh, we're going to, they're going to finally have an AI girlfriend who never tells me no, never says anything critical of me, whatever. It's kind of in those, it's in that vein, isn't it? Yeah, you can see why that would be appealing. because an object can't hurt you.

Yeah. Right. And so when, you know, the woman who comes up and tells you not to look at her and gets in your face is now not appealing to you because she's hurting you. Yeah. But the non-real human can just satisfy my needs, right? And that, I mean, we've played with this with, you know, throughout history and there's plenty of movies that are attempting to address it.

But if, let's just boil this down to some like real life consequences, though. So, first of all, we could talk about eating disorders all day as a real life consequence of self-objectification. You know, things like that, that really an individual numb, depression, tons of anxiety. In fact, the e-mailer talked about his wife's social anxiety was like, oh, I wonder where that comes from. Like the attention of others, and think about that for a moment, when the attention of others can be neutral to dangerous to, I mean, all sorts of things. It's no wonder why people aren't just terrified of other people. Right? You just don't know what they're doing or thinking. And if you're being objectified, you might be in real big trouble. So when you think of assaults or, you know, anytime someone's

rights are violated, often the perpetrator has reduced that person to an object, right? Even just stealing someone's purse. You don't, you're not thinking about that. You know, when you get robbed and you were like, my driver's license, right? That's the realness of you. And they just, want the money, and that's it. It's like they have to actually not see you as a full person. It's too difficult to have those two things. It has to be, you know, you have to be dehumanized a little bit for, so we have violation, we have crime, we have all those different things.

What's interesting, and here's where, sort of as I was thinking about this and studying a couple different research things have popped up that literally show how the brain impairs empathy toward a sexually objectified woman versus one that is not. So, like, for example, I could show you a picture of a woman who is dressed in a particular way. I angle the camera, so you're really only looking at her body, de-emphasize anything else about her, right? Just she is a sexualized picture of representing a woman versus a non-sexualized woman, just a normal person sitting there with their, whatever. Right. Like you can imagine it's pretty easy to create those two chitchers. Sure. Sure. And what they've found is there's neural evidence that basically shows that the perception of physical pain for a woman who is the sexualized in any kind of event does not register with people. They don't think she's in actual pain.

And for a woman who is like your mother or your aunt, then they're in pain. Right. And then think of how this applies to actual crime against women. Right? Domestic violence, rape. All of these things. If she's not a real person and she's already sexualized, then, and this is how it actually translates. And if you're familiar with the Justice Department, the justice management of domestic assault in this country, you'll know that the consequences for harming a woman are not as high as they should be. And often that sort of dehumanization or animalistic dehumanization, is kind of the term they use, means they have less severe punishments. And so people on juries will even perceive with less empathy any human being that is more sexualized,

which is wild, right? Am I the only one that's freaked out? No, I mean, because, yeah, you should look and feel the way you want to feel. And if that happens to be provocative, if that happens to be showing a lot of skin, whatever, you should be able to do it without fear of, of attack or violence or whatever. It's funny, though, because you kind of describe what the science sounds like it's bearing out is

there is something to the oversimplified reaction a man might have to saying, well, she dressed like that. Yep. And he's made the simple math, which is, well, that means she wanted me to leer at her and whistle. But what he's missing is this whole thing you just described. Right. And he is, he is in objectification. mode where that person doesn't have feelings. And as soon as she says, no, I don't have to shave my

armpits for you, because I'm on the internet and you're just some dude, then the anger response, it's an object talking back to you versus a human being with feelings. And I think, so another example might be, like, take the email actually, when he asks his other friends who are like, no, I don't do that. That's something to pay attention to. Because for every maybe one person doing this, there's probably 10 who are not. And maybe fluctuate in degrees.

And that's why when anyone says, and you've heard this is classic politics, right, which is, I have daughters. It's like, that does not preclude you from being a full on a hole. Oh, yeah. It does not. I hate that. Whenever somebody starts their thing out of,

says as a father of two daughters like don't start that don't don't be if it meant as a father of two daughters you could then see this person as human yeah then cool but what you're saying is I'm excusing my objectification of another human being because I have daughters yeah it's like such a use of oh it's inferior right but again that rationalizing and that response defensiveness I'm going to call it the shadow because I have something to say at the very end about shadow. That is really commonly applied when you're called out for objectifying somebody else. So I'm not going to solve all these problems. But really, check yourself. And I love that this guy was willing to do a little bit of that. And one great way

to sort of check if you are objectifying someone else is just make up a backstory for them and see if your attraction levels out. right like hmm there's a mother of two like that lady in the store you're yeah I'm gonna so I'm you know like basically whether people want to admit to or not that's up to them I suppose but if you're you're walking around a public place and you see someone who's attractive or you see a movie and you're like wow that actress is beautiful or you know I have a I have a crush on what's her name or whatever everybody's doing that whether you admit it or not what I'd like to do is figure out how you can get your brain to interrupt you and say

Oh, yeah, by the way, remember, these are people. And remember, you know, give that speech to yourself. Say, as a father of two daughters, you should know that that girl's maybe a year older than your daughter at the mall. Your daughter's 29 or whatever, and she's 30. Like, what are you doing? Just visualize them going home at the end of their day. They acted in that movie you just watch, but they go home. They, you know, they put dishes away.

They open up the dishwasher and get stuff out of the dishwasher. Oh, man, there's water still in this cup. Darn it, I'm going to have to rewash it. Or this didn't, the egg didn't come off of this plate. Like, just all the mundane things. And it humanizes in it. And it puts everybody kind of at the same level and not this, you know. The trick is just remembering to do it or having the wherewithal to go, stop it.

So when they yell at me for staring at them, I can say, well, no, initially I was staring at you because you're pretty. but now I'm visualizing you emptying the dishwasher and so it's okay. And that's a turn on. So you've got to be careful. So one way to think about this is there's a spectrum here

like from this emailer and his friends they're on the lower end of maybe objectifiers, right? And this guy may be a little further along the road than his friends. And so for maybe him just recognizing, wow, I got some shit.

shifting to make some like let's think this through listening to his wife have this conversation you know take it upon himself to maybe do things a little differently like you're saying maybe remind yourself hey this person's a human the other thing to do is like maybe really check your own um well your privilege in that and then like your own self-objectification which i want to talk about now which is what what is that well yeah sorry i want to finish the spectrum things all the way to the other end of the spectrum where you are harming other humans because you think of them as objects, right? We have a really big spectrum in the middle there. And you can just to have a little honest inventory. And what are you doing? And et cetera, right? Now, here's the thing.

Can we appreciate beauty? Yeah. We're built to do that. Right? This isn't about shame. This isn't about you're a bad person. Just like we're looking for danger. We're looking for sustenance. things like that, we see beauty. And it's probably because we're like, I need to further my line. Oh, wait, no, I don't need to do that. I'm married. Exactly. My line is furthered. Also, like, it's as far as it's going to go. And I know this before on the show, but just this universal picture of beauty, of natural beauty that's sort of like, if you get everyone to vote from all around the world in different cultures, it has some similar things in it. It has water in the picture. it has like a picture of a home that's backed up by like some sturdiness, mountains, trees,

like something we all can find beautiful really represents safety, survival, water rights. You know what I mean? Like all this stuff that means we're going to live. And a beautiful person is about, you know, having your seed continue, right? And so we are built to see that loveliness and appreciate it. Now, if you're going any further beyond loveliness of like, oh, that's a beautiful person. So, Scott, I would put you in that category of normal, right? Healthy.

It's when you are just lingering, staring at their body. Wonder what she'd look like naked. Yeah. 100%. You start to get into objectification. And if you're hearing this. Everybody in chat on the Twitch video that we watched pre-show. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, right? Because they're doing, you know, that's a whole other story. Probably a whole other episode we should get into. The point being, like, if you feel really defensive about this, just ask yourself why. Like, I don't want anyone to take my right to stare at a random stranger in a grocery store. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

We're not going to force you. But just, you know, maybe ask yourself, what are you doing? And what do you get out of it? And is this person just getting used by you? And the answer is probably yes, if we're further down the road on that, right? Yeah. But here's where I think this applies to everyone and specifically those. who are spending a lot of time looking at themselves and hating what they see is self-objectification

is going to be such a natural consequence to our selfie life and our obsession with youth and our obsession with perfection and the fact that we can create that all with a swipe of a mouse, right? You can make anything look amazing. Our brains are like, yeah, that's what it's supposed to be. I'm now the object, which is why you don't feel cold, which is why you are, you actually are suffering, you're numbing, you're whatever, if you hate yourself. So you're hating, maybe you're not sexually attracted to yourself. You hate yourself.

You're having the opposite where you're still an object. You're not worthy of certain things because you don't look at certain ways. And we can all observe this in the wild where you're like, whoa, that person has so much plastic surgery. They don't even a human anymore. Right. what do you what do you make of this maybe too long of an answer to do today or not but i just want to bring it up um what do you make of like there are a lot of like men's groups now who have who've gone they're they're no longer doing me as a guy as a father of two daughters they're not doing that polite sort of exclusionary stuff anymore instead they're saying we are in our very nature uh they basically just admit to it we're we we and our nature is that we are high hypersexual and our job is to populate the earth and impregnate everybody so of course we're

attracted to everyone we see and and there's just no getting around that and and uh when they're when they're most attracted to them it's because they're the prime of their time which means they you know we're just we're just nature or whatever um you're saying that you can counter that right and so i guess what i'm saying is what do you tell people that talk like that well because i know some people personally who talk like that they're like well why are you going to stop me from being what i was born to be you know it's just that kind of like weird i'm going to eat nothing but steak and and i'm going to find every woman it looks at me and you know just like kind of that weird man is man's man men are back everybody that kind of weird attitude well then you better

give up your car because early man didn't have one of those you better uh i don't think he had trucker hats you're going to have to give up your collection of those well if i've learned anything they're very reasonable people. No, there's the opposite of that. So this actually leads perfectly into what I would love to do in January if people are game, is to do a series on shadow work. And so that's the Jungian term for essentially all the stuff behind you, you're unconscious of and the shadow, right?

Sometimes you get glimpses of your shadow and you're like, right? Anyone have that experience? Oh, yeah, yeah. I look great when I look straight on at myself, but boy, when I see my shadow, I was like, what is that? What are those lumps coming from? Jeez.

And think of the shadow as like all the dark stuff you don't deal with or maltreatment as a kid or bullied in a situation that sort of has twisted and found a home back there and you haven't looked at it and you don't want to look at it. And what you're describing to me, Scott, is that there are generations and generations of men. And I am speaking mainly about Americans here because I'm telling you the amount of ego on this continent. It's just a wild. It's staggering. And this is not how I did not experience Swedish men at all, at all like American men. And when I meet a Swedish guy who was like an American, I was like, what's happening? You should move there. Because it's just a very different social context

to grow up in. They have their own shadow. Don't you worry. But it is not so machismo. And we can talk about like South American countries and that version of machismo. Literally the word comes from there. But that idea of like why we have generations and generations of fathers to sons to cultural norms training men to feel the way they do about certain things. And this self-justification for I am the center of the universe and I get what I need and want and I'll take whatever, which means objectification, right? Of everything. Has represented the lack of weakness.

That's actually what has been seen as a strength. Yeah. And then the other stuff has been mocked, right? And so what we do is we just, you just still have more people saying it. And the more they get triggered, the more they're going to yell it, right? As opposed to someone who's just like, yeah, women aren't objects, moving on. Like it's not hard for many men, but there are definitely a subset of men who, like it's very threatening, and it's because it's threatening something in the shadow.

So we can take, you know, when we, if you guys are up for it in January, just any topic that relates to this, it doesn't obviously have to be man-objectifying women and treating them poorly when they don't act like good objects. It could be anything that is sort of hidden in the background. And I'll come up with some things, but if anyone has any emails they want to send that are like related to, because often how a shadow shows up is it will sabotage something that's going on. That's a common way. It will make itself known. You know, sort of things leak out sideways. A very common one. And I know there's emails just waiting in the wings on this one. And that is, you do not want to be like your mother or you do not want to

be like your father. And then your partner goes, wow, you're sure acting like Donna. Right. And then you are triggered because that's the worst thing to say to you. There's probably some shadow in that. And so we could go through, I mean, it's an endless supply, but I really, and I'll teach the concept and kind of go into it deeper and maybe the first time we talk about it and then people have a better idea. But I would argue that there is a collective shadow for a lot of organizations, for a lot of people who are a group.

And some people, some groups are really good at identifying some of those things and working through it. And humans can be really good at that. And then there are people who are so unaware of their stuff. it's kind of terrifying and it has real world consequences right you elect an egomaniac to let's say a political office and they have power to make decisions and have zero self-awareness I don't know who I would be talking about yeah but he has two daughters by the way yeah as a father of two daughters he probably has some things to say uh all right well this yeah I'd like that and

you guys really this email really stepped up to what we asked for last time so I know let's get more that you guys more of these coming in um we'll be watching for me can i say something real quick i would be i am creeped out by the voice though what all that would you didn't like that voice this guy here oh the a i voice sounds like the tv show the voice but yeah no the ai voice first all it was so you as revealing sexy we yeah yeah it's like having your dad talked to you or something it's weird i did yeah i don't i freaks me i prefer you skipping words and saying it backwards and doing it wrong. But it's okay.

I only skipped it today because of my throat, but I could, you can always ask me, you can always ask me to read it too. I know, and I didn't think of that. I didn't think of that. I also know how to read.

Here's the other thing, Scott, is the original AI got person you used? I liked how it sounded like a robot. This just didn't. Yeah. It's almost that, maybe that's uncanny Valley, right?

It's now it's too close to being real. It totally is that. Yeah. As much as, that's the funny thing about all this AI stuff that's the hyper realistic art or hyper-realistic art or hyper-realistic voice work or video,

you can see it, you can hear it. It doesn't matter. Like, it's almost worse that it's more realistic. It's like, right? And yet,

how is this helping with our objectification problems? Not at all is the answer, not even a little bit. And I never even said this, really, a treatment for any of this, right? It's to really,

like we were talking about, you know, become more aware and try to like not do it. But the self-objectification one, first of all, stop ingesting everything that makes you self-objectify and take a break.

That would be one thing. The other is to really have somebody help you with some of this because this is hard. It's hard to see it. It's hard to know that's what's happening. You may, I mean, for some people hearing this, they may think, I have never once thought that you could objectify yourself. Yeah. And then pay attention.

How do you talk to yourself? How do you treat yourself? Do you harm yourself? Do you eat stuff that is bad for you? And I don't mean just like junk food. I mean, like, you are not treating yourself well like you would a person, right? And so if those things are happening, you'd probably need a little help. Interesting.

One of these days, we've got to have a whole conversation about the V-Tuber thing. I don't even know if you know what those are. A what now? V-tuber, like Victory, V? No. Okay. They're basically virtual avatars that people are, that they use instead of showing their real face now.

Okay. And they're very popular. People really like the V-tubers. and I am super interested in the psychology behind it because it's something about everything you've talked about today is just ringing a bell there and I can't put my finger on it. And it's not me going, V-tubers are weird.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying why do virtual avatars, why are they preferable for some people? And why does the audience like that? Like, I don't know. There's something weird going on there. So are they, okay, really quick, Is it like overlaid on my real person?

You're just seeing my avatar, but I'm moving? They move as if, so they're being video captured by software that makes the avatar move as if they're. So imagine like, I don't know, let's just use an example of Scooby-Doo is there on screen. And as you open your mouth, shut your mouth, talk, make faces, close your eyes, the avatar is doing the same thing in real time. So it's a technology. There's a big technology angle to this, but what it's allowing people to do is, to have a persona. It's the same one that makes you look like a cat on your Zoom call, right? Just like that. No, that's exactly it. That's exactly it. Actually, yeah, that is a perfect comparison. That's exactly it when you do that with FaceTime or whatever. I mean, this is a perfect extension of objectification and protection, right? I am actually saving myself from being objectified. I'm doing it myself, right? But I'm also, what's really fascinating and I'm sure there are people who live.

near certain parts of the world that this is everyone's jobs is having like what's that like to like do depersonalize in some ways do you over identify with that I mean we have levels of over identifying or de-realization or depersonalization that could could occur but I can imagine like there's grades to this but absolutely I I'm being an object for everyone else yeah right but also that self-objectification like you and what's hard is when you make your avatar like giant eyes and tiny little chin and no nose that's not real and so your actual images in the mirror and other things that has to be some funky things because then you say oh my god my eyes are too small or my nose is too big or whatever yeah i mean i know a dude who is around my age

i can't i'm not going to out him because it's the whole point about me it's not bryan who who runs a V-tube, a fairly popular V-tuber account and does it under all anonymity and he also has voice modulation happening so he sounds like a girl when he does it, like a young girl, and he has like an anime-looking avatar for the thing. He's zero like his avatar.

His claim is, well, this is how I can do it because I'm too old to get big on the internet, but if I can fake being young on the internet, I can get big on the internet. that's that's he told me that so it's not about me being happy or anything it's to be big on the well yeah whether or not he derives happiness from that but i don't know i couldn't say but i think he's like um i don't know it's a bit like what we do with i mean makeup and films just wearing

makeup or yeah yeah same kind of thing exactly you know it's it's being and also we're obsessed with youth right like you're not going to you're not going to trust somebody to entertain you based on their age if it's not in the range you'll leave enlist to, right? I mean, that makes so much sense. Is he okay? I mean, he's making good money on his, I think he's on KIC, but he's using KIC.com, I think, for his streaming or Kik.tv, whatever it is. Right.

And I'm not going to say much more about him because I don't want people to find, I mean, his email address is, but I want. That is fascinating. I think he toys with a little bit. Like, I think there's some genuinely creepy things have been said in that chat room from anonymous people. toward him. Right.

They don't know any better about who's behind the mic or behind the camera. And so part of me once in a while just wishes that the software would glitch and it would show his face for the head.

Just for a second to be like, oh, it's just bleep. That's an amazing black mirror episode. Who produces that show? It is a black mirror episode. You're not wrong.

It does sound like that. It's a black mirror episode and it's also the Wizard Vise. Wait, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, wrong. Yeah. Which Brian is,

that's an interesting point. is basically that's the premise of that is this problem not problem but this thing that we're talking about so i don't know it's something we could maybe you know put on the back burn or also just like how we fill in the blanks for what we want to see is very real too like obviously that's literally what you're saying so it's not like you're visually filling in the blanks but to to eliminate cognitive dissonance we do a lot of magic tricks in order to be okay with certain things, right? And when really, like the Wizard of Oz, the curtain really does get pulled back, it really can be devastating for folks. And so we have a lot of psychological things in place to not

ever see the thing behind the thing, you know? Right. We don't want to see it. Interesting. Yeah. Right. And this guy's account, if it ever did happen, I mean, it would be the end times for his account because people would be like, what? Oh, for sure. His name is, I'll use a fake name. His name is Larry and he's 48 and he's wait a minute he's not a girl who's like 16 who's from Japan like or whatever they think he is. It's really weird.

Anyway, that is an interesting thing. Okay. All right. I need emails to work with on the shadow thing. I think that whole story is a good shadow conversation. Yeah. But you know, so are we we are meeting next week. So we have next week. Yep. Yeah. Maybe I could just do

show before the end of the year. One more show. Maybe I'll just do that, you know, someone sent an email, but I'll just do the intro to what. shadow stuff is, and then we can just, January is a time to reflect on our shadows. You don't want to talk about, like, the true meaning of Christmas since it'll be our last episode before Christmas. We could do that. Wait, the what of Christmas?

What did you say? The true meaning of Christmas. Oh, the true meaning. I thought you said the true meaning. The true meaning. The Truman showing of Christmas. I know for a half second. I was like, you mean like someone's faking a hole.

Yeah. Living in an entire snow glowing. Yeah. Actually, you're right. You make a good point. Gathering with family can be a difficult thing and maybe we can go through. Actually, good point. Yeah, maybe. Hacks to survive. Hacks to survive. So somebody tell us your worst family interaction at a holiday and then we'll use that. All right. I like that. We'll just go through a couple hacks to handle it. I've got like five at the top of my tongue right now. So, yeah, let's do that. And then we'll we'll do the shadow in January when the sun's not out. Yeah. It's cold and horrible and nobody wants to do it. anything in January. I like that.

Good timing. Wendy, fantastic stuff. Have a fantastic rest of your week. And you're continued hurtling toward the holidays. We'll see you soon. Bye. All right. Cool.

Yeah, I blame Discord. Anytime I say something wrong or mispronounce a word or anything like that, it's really, you're hearing Discord. Yeah, it's always Discord. Just Discord, let me get their crap together. Discord. What are you doing? All right.

We're about done. A quick thing, though, we got this, somebody talking about the genre. I guess we talked about what the genre of a band like Limp Biscuit belongs to. Sure. And I've always heard new metal, NU metal, that's what I've always heard. Yes, NU metal. Yes. Which I kind of hate.

This music is so bad, we needed to invent a new spelling of a word to... Right, save us one character, exactly. Make it cool that way. Well, this writer says, hey, you guys were talking about Limp Biscuit on TMS, and you asked what genre it was. According to the crossword I just did, it's rap metal. so some crossword he didn't say where and he also didn't leave a name but some crossword puzzle somewhere thinks that it's called rap metal which i think sounds like an old person made that crossword puzzle rap metal you know what though that does feel like it's more accurate because um like you look at uh not incubus uh corn shoot corn is a good example um i like corn i tried so hard and got so far who's that we just covered them for soundography for peace sake who's that lincoln park i see that Lincoln Park, yes. They're another good example of that.

And I think, you know, I think rat metal isn't a bad designation because it tells you exactly the two things that are being combined to make that music. Yeah, I agree. I don't think it's a problem. I think new metal is dumb and it happened in the late 90s and we should all be embarrassed by what we did then. So it's fine. Keep on, keep it on Fred Durst. Here's some episodes. Oh, by the way, our emails and our phone call.

stuff in our, I can't think of anything today. Texts. They all come to various sources like, for example, the morning stream at gmail.com, or if you'd rather text us 801-47-1-0-462. Tomorrow, we're planning on a few things. There's a little bit of shift around, but couch party in the morning,

that's happening. Don't care how I feel, it's happening. Okay. It honestly doesn't matter. You don't, like, by golly, if it kills me, we're going to have a show tomorrow. If you're feeling sick, I know, but I'm going to do it.

Like right now, this day cool I took, it's helping. I'm fine. I'll be fine tomorrow. So anyway, couch party tomorrow at 10, 10 a.m. Play Retro at 1.30. We're doing it at 1.30 now. That's the new time. Done away gets off work early.

1.30 for play retro. And then that night, we're doing core. We're not doing core tonight. I'm using tonight to rest and chill and sleep early and go to bed on time and all those things. Those sounded contradictory. But you get my point. So core is on front. Friday this week. So Friday night, 4 p.m. core. Big day, big day tomorrow, full of stuff. Be here for it. It'll be a great time. All right.

Patreon.com slash TMS for helping us out, supporting us being there for us. Thank you all for being there who are. If you're not there already, it's a super simple thing to do. And we'd love it. Patreon.com slash TMS. Let's get out of here. Let's be done. One more thing that did Coverville, but there's also going to be a guest to connection. Tomorrow morning at 9, got stuff to give away. And somebody did. at least one person got the correct answer from this week's soundography. I'm sorry, soundography, from this week's guest the connection. So if you're a patron, you can still go listen to it and have a chance to win because I pick randomly from all the people who submit correct guesses. Nice. Very nice. So there you go. And that is most Friday mornings at 9 an hour before a couch party.

Yeah. So get in there and get that done. Lots of prizes because I have a big box of stuff that I collect. from loot crates that I don't want and stuff that you know I've gotten from other sources yeah I don't want these things anymore they're still in box I don't want to take them out

I have to dust them Marty I don't want to take care of these new things oh gosh Rick I don't know what you're going to do now help Brian dejunct all right yeah exactly all right let's get to the request here Brooke rode in and said hello Santa and baby Jesus oh my gosh all right

My husband, Joel, is... I feel objectified. My husband, Joel, is 35 years old on December 13th, but I think Amy has a birthday that day. She does. Oh, let's ask for both of them. Hold on. Hold on. Let's do this.

Happy birthday. You're in your 30s. You get old lady birthday. That's the way it is. That's right. Exactly. So I requested for today. He is into rock and roll and metal on occasion.

I would love to have the covermeister. Oh, this case, cover miser. I'm Mr. Covermiser. more singing because you guys can't get enough of it play a holiday sung to celebrate in one of those genres also can i please get that weird windy noise much affection towards the program however signed a brook oh my gosh the weird windy noise of this one that's that one that's it right there yep i keep that one handy now yeah that's the sound i make when somebody is uh describing thick and liquid to me yeah um all right a rock cover of a a Christmas song well you know coverville we had a few of those on yesterday but we didn't have this one

this one does actually mention Christmas Christmas is in the lyrics so this is a song about Christmas as a matter of fact when I was in elementary school sixth grade I was part of a Christmas play presentation it was a singing thing

two things I had to do or several things I had to do the intro solo from the beginning of Rudolph the Red Nose reindeer. You know, Dasher and dancer and Prancer, that whole thing. That thing, yeah. And then when my girlfriend at the time, Natalie, was on front of the stage singing

Silver Bells, me and three other guys cover the back of the stage doing sign language versions of the entire song Silver Bells. There you go. There's a little story about Brian in sixth grade. I want to hear that audio. Find that somewhere.

Never going to be, never going to come out. It's gone. Never was recorded as far as I know. Shoot. No phones, no recording devices of any kind back in, uh, 1970, whatever. Oh my gosh. Or 1980, whatever. All right.

Let's get to it. Here is Reliant K. That's right. I said Reliant K. From the 2011 collection, Tis the season to be goady. Here is Silver Bells. Christmas time in the city Ring away

Get away Sooner will be Christmas Sidewalks busy sidewalks Dressed in holiday style In the air there's a feeling of Christmas Children laughing, people passing Meeting smile after smile And on every street corner, you'll hear

Silver bells, silver bells, it's Christmas time in the city We'll wait, hear them rain, soon it will be Christmas Day and stoplights blink up bright red and green as the shoppers rush home with their treasures hear the snow crunch see the kids bunch this is santa's big scene and above all this bar so you'll hear silver birds silver birds this christmas time in the city we'll hear them rain soon it will be christmas day is almost here the time to breathe the bells ring tell us about our love was born tell us about our love was born they Day Silverbirds

Silverbirds It's Christmas I'm in the city We're going to rain Soon it will be Christmas Day Silverberg It's Christmas time in the city

New days Soon it will be Christmas Day Get more at Get more at frogpants.com Even a blood. squirrel can catch a nut sometimes.