The Morning Stream - TMS 2823: Kenny Van Heflin

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

Iiiii Don't Like Fancy Pinkieeeeeeeeeeees! Brian... Why do you smell like a Barq's? Jowel Don Baker. No smoking babies in this house! What's the Deal with Male Nipples? Useless As Tits On A Bull. Business or Pleh-Zhur. Build a Blonde Blanket. Donny's Real, You're Out of Your Element! You Ow Me Le Favors. There was internet on which to lodge my complaints. Nose Picking is a Personal Choice. Uncle Jessie's white eyelashes. 4 grand is for suckers. Attached to Therapy Thursday with Wendi and more on this episode of The Morning Stream. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Coming up on the morning stream I don't like fancy pinky Brian, why do you smell like a barks? Jowl Don Baker. No smoking babies in this house. What's the deal with male nipples? Useless or pleasure. Build a blonde blanket.

Donnie's real. You're out of your element. You owe me la favors. There was internet on which to lodge my complaints. Nose picking is a personal choice. Uncle Jesse's white eyelashes. Four grand is for suckers. Attached to Therapy Thursday with Wendy and more on this episode of the morning

stream. How can I help you today? Oh, hi. Yeah, I'm here to pick up my son's Game Boy Advance system. Okay, how many units did you reserve? Uh, we've got just one. Okay, great. You know, we still have some extra units available. Maybe you have a friend that's looking for one? Have you seen the new unit? Yeah, which accessories does your son have now? I thought that he could play the games he had on this new unit. Look at that, the enhanced color, the graphics, the action, it's all so improved. Another 25 cents, please. The MorningStream. They're coming to get you, Barbara.

There's one of them now. Hello, everybody. Welcome to TMS. It is the morning stream for Thursday, May 15th, 2025. We've got a lot of fives today. A lot of fives. Yeah, 5.15, 25. Pretty good.

Oh, yeah, pretty good. Pretty good. I wish we had a month that was 55. That'd be cool. I can't I can't drive 55 no well you can now because boy I think about this sometimes on the way home from Vegas everything's 80 now there's only like two stretches that are slower and even in those cases they're like 65 75 or something like is that the Sammy Hagar even even like now he can't drive 55 because he'll get pulled over for going too slow yeah is the problem yeah old old man Hagar haggard they'll call him instead of Hagar yeah back in the high school for some reason for some reason in high school people called him when I was in I guess I was a senior and he had well no I'd have been a sophomore or a junior because it was right when he came to Van Halen so 85 I think that was yeah and for 51 50 and everybody wanted to call him van they wanted to call the band van hagar yeah but this one kid called it van heflin and I think that's a real person isn't it not like an old school person isn't it not like an old school person performer or something, some guy named Van Heflin? Yeah, it sounds familiar.

Van Heflin. Or an actor. Oh, yeah, there it is. Van Heflin Jr., American Theater, Radio, and film actor. Why this kid, A, knew who that was, B, would say it when we talked about it. And he went to the 5150 tour with me, the concert. So he's not like a weirdo that doesn't know. He knows who this is.

He knows who Van Hagar. I mean, one of these, this guy's movies are like, 1941, 1947, 1947, 19. Like, is this, is your friend watching the Johnny Eager and the prowler? Exactly. This thing is ancient. Look at this dude in that mustache. You're not even allowed to have that anymore. Oh, no, no.

Born in 08. Really? No way. Yeah, yeah. I do like those movies. Back when it was 308 to you. Oh, shit. Well, bring that mustache back is all I got to say about Van Heflin.

Look at that thing. Yeah. I'm kidding. You got to take good care of this. That is the, like the, I think of Omar Sharif. Yeah, yeah. Those are good days. But yeah, Van Hagar, because, I mean, it really, you know,

Sammy Hagar changed the sound of Van Halen just by his presence, his voice, not in a way that, like, completely made at the Sammy Hagar band. Because it was still sounded like Van Halen, thanks to the guitar work of Eddie and the rest. and the rest Eddie and the rest yeah and the rest yeah

but Alex and Michael and all those people but sure but you know his because as the vocalist you kind of changed

the sound of the band just like Gary Sharon but I think he did it more of a way that was no one never called it Van Sharon no no they didn't but they should have

because that's amazing Van Sharon Van Sharon would you remember remember what your reaction would have been because at the time I was 16, 15, and that change happened. Van Halen was like a huge deal growing up. That was like the band, the rock band to admire, to love, to whatever. And then I remember this happened. And also equally, um, Diamond Dave going off and doing like, just a jiggleoo. Yeah, all that stuff seems so

discordant to me at the time that I was crazy from the heat. There was probably a period of time where I was kind of depressed about it. I was like, certainly because the Hagar years are something I've learned to appreciate a lot more as I've gotten older, but for me, growing up, the diver down

and women and children first and the self-titled albums, it's like this is the sound of Van Halen. It is David Lee Roth. It is that mix, that sound. And so, yeah, when he left and Sam Eagar came in, at that time, I was

very disappointed. Very disappointed. I launched my complaint on the internet post-haste. That's right. If there was an internet to lodge my complaint upon. But yeah, now. I had a buddy Kenny in junior high when they did the 84 album, 1984, it's called 1984, with the smoking angel who my mom thought, she thought there's no way we're getting that album in this house. Forget it. That's funny that that, boy, that seems so innocent compared to everything else that's come since, right? Oh, it's just like nothing. It's just like a whole bucket of nothing. But anyway, I remember he was so mad at Van Halen for having the jump on there because it was so synthy.

Even though it was a huge hit for them. Sure. It was such a weird pull away from the usual Van Halen sound. The guitar, the very guitar forward sound. Yeah. Yeah. To him that was like Airplane or Jefferson Airplane going to Starship. That was the level of switch for him.

That's good. Sure. Sure. And even Jefferson Airplane going to. Jefferson Starship before they did the Fulon Starship thing. That was a big you know a big synthesizer switchover for them

the in between a bunch of bands were tempted. Sticks was like there was a bunch of this going on and I don't blame any of them they were just kind of moving with the times but this friend of mine even though the rest of the album was pretty solid rock and roll style Van Halen normalness

you know Panama was like a banging song that was great he just He swore them off forever. And I wonder if I checked in on him today, found him on Facebook and said, hey, Kenny, how do you feel about this? Oh, no, Kenny was the one that called the, what's this guy's? I don't remember his name. Kenny's the one that said Van Heflin. Kenny was an idiot.

Don't trust Kenny. Yeah, never trust Kenny. Yeah, I mean, look at the lineup of this album. I'll wait, jump, Panama, hot for teacher. There's eruption on there? No. but there's like an eruption style thing right there is it's the it's the intro to panama is is is eruption like isn't it i think so like a little solo eddie van halen or

1984 going into jump that's a minute a little over a minute long the could be that could be that yeah i mean i do like i do like i liked it then and i like jump now i just but i get it i get that that was jarring for people, you know? Yeah. I just, it changed the, it changed fundamentally how they sounded. Maybe it actually led into the Hagar stuff even better, though, which would come next, because there's a lot of synth in the Hagar album. So maybe that was a good thing for them to ramp up there.

Kind of their, the shoehorning end of that. By the way, the song All Wait, written by Eddie Van Hill and Alex Van Hill and Michael Anthony, David Lee Roth, along with, he came from somewhere back in the, Oh, long ago. Michael McDonald. Really? Co-wrote, I'll wait. Shut up, dude.

So is it technically a yacht rock song? Can we call it a yacht rock song? Oh, gosh. No, I don't... You know what? The prominence of electric guitar kills any chance of that being a yacht rock song. And he co-wrote it, but he surprisingly does not appear

like doing background vocals or anything. They just co-wrote it. it with him but didn't say hey want to come to the studio and and uh sing it it's just a weird thing to imagine those guys all in the same room yes it is right totally not not the kind of band co-op i would imagine but what do i know about that era uh j funktastic in the chat says as a van halen super fan you guys are killing me did we get something way wrong we must have i don't know probably the the eruption talk probably because that was um see i can't remember what song that's the lead-in, too. Is it, uh, is it, you really got me? You really got me? Rebel Scum says it is.

Yeah, maybe that's it. I'm trying to remember. Yeah, they didn't, because they were never standalone. They are always lead-ins when he would do his little solo two-minute deal. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Well, anyway. Yeah. Sorry, Jay. We're, uh, we're not as super fanny as you. How does, I wonder how Jay feels about the Sharon years? How was that on for, for the super fan? out there. Yeah, no kidding. I was done by then. I had washed my hands of it. I had moved on. Oh, for sure. For sure.

It was like, fool me once. Yeah. But that debut album, I mean, look at that thing. Running with the Devil, Eruption, you really got me. Ain't Talking About Love. Jamie's Crying. So good. Their cover of Ice Cream Man. I mean, that wasn't, for a debut album, that thing kicked ass.

That was great. Yeah, L.A., one of L.A.'s greatest rock band success stories, L.A., right? Am I getting that wrong, Jay? Let me know, because maybe I'm wrong about that. Because there was an L.A. explosion, right? All these rock bands from L.A. and Van Hengelam was one that popped out.

Yeah, L.A. I mean, I always think of David Lee Roth as being from L.A., so I guess the rest of the band would be from there, too, right? Or formed, at least formed in L.A. Yeah. All right. Pasadena, there we go, Pasadena, California. Yeah. Oh, interesting. One good song on the Sharon years, but it's basically an Eddie solo album because he played everything on it, including drums. Really? Where did Alex go? Alex is like, I ain't doing this shit.

Count me out. I'm out of here. I'm going to go drink with Michael Anthony out of his giant Jack Daniels guitar. Right. Anyway, uh, hey, everybody, we got a few things. We've got some feedback today. I don't, um, we've been using that new voicecast. Dot app thing so much that sometimes it's easy for me to forget to check emails all the time. Oh, so I did that today. We got three of them in a row, and I want to follow up on some of this stuff because it's about things we've been talking about. For example, shaving your eyelashes, Brian, we kind of didn't like that, did we much? You and I. No, we did not. We thought it was a very. Yeah, nobody ain't nobody.

Listeners agree. Yeah, listeners, four out of five listeners and two out of two hosts agree. Shaving your eyelashes sucks ass. So here's what he says about that eyelash business. Hey, Scorch and Burn, the eyelash thing. Men, for the most part, are idiots, L.O.L. Wow, that's a broad statement there, buddy. Yeah. Also, I kind of agree. Sort of agree with them. Not wrong. He says, I have had alopecia universalis my entire life. That sounds like a new game from the U.S. There's a universalis game.

The unreal engine, it's Alopecia universalis. I don't know why it sounds like that, but it does. anyway, I haven't had eyelashes, eyebrows, or, sorry, at all, let alone hair all over my entire body since I was five. Wow. That's crazy. Wayne, did you have, how'd you have it when you're, I guess you get out of head to eyelash or, yeah, eyelashes and eyebrows on your five, if that's when it happened. I guess. Because that can just kick in, right? My understanding is it's like an autoimmune thing where you could be 12 or you could be 30 and suddenly, bam, all your hair falls out and you don't have it.

I didn't know that like you could develop alopecia at some point in your life. I think I always assumed, well, you're born with it or you're not kind of thing. Yeah, I don't know. Is Dr. Tolbert in the room? I have no idea how this works. Anyway,

I do, well, the only thing I, here's all I know about it is people like to donate to it and my niece, Anna, can grow the most luxurious, thick, rich, amazing blonde hair you've ever seen. like the kind of stuff that you would want to harvest and make blankets out of and build a hut with.

I mean, she's amazing hair. Just incredible. Okay. All right. So she'll do this once in a while because she, for whatever reason, grows hair like a weed. She grows her hair out long, cuts it, donates it. Does it again, cuts it, donates it. Like, I don't know how many times she's done this, but she's like 22 now and she's been doing it since she was a kid.

But anyway. Yeah, alopecia experts weigh in. Anyway, says, let me tell you what's going to happen because I have lived it. These fools, talking about the eyelash trimmers, will have a giant increase in one crap getting in their eyes, two eye infections of one kind or another, three dry eyes and four sties. He says this will end much sooner than it began. Let the snow globe at the hojo feature flojo saying ho-ho, says Will in Austin, Texas. Damn, man. Yeah, so he's been through it.

He knows. He knows. He knows what to expect from that. Yeah, I mean, they are protection. Forget the, forget the visual, you know, that they're pretty to look at. But they serve a purpose, much like everything on our body, it serves a purpose. The grand design of evolution isn't, let's see, what looks good. That's right.

Yeah. Yeah. Even our male nipples, because I, here I am talking about shit, I don't know. But I assume at some point during our fetal development, the intended development goes one direction or the other. Sure. Usually, you know, fetal, fetal presenting female, fetal presenting male. I don't know what month that happens. But at some point, our nipples become stupid.

So now we got these dumbass things that do nothing, but just sit there and get an ingrown hair occasionally. F these things. I hate it. so as much as Brian is absolutely right everything on us is there for a reason we've evolved because of how we've evolved but sometimes like the appendix which is less and less important to the human body lots of things like that the male nipple can we get rid of the male nipple I mean I imagine it will at some point yeah maybe it will evolution you know let's look at a million years from now assuming we survive the next three and a half years but a million years from now. Will we have pinkies? Will we have pinky toes for that matter? Right. Um, there's a, there's a useless thing. Yeah. I mean, we need our, we need our toes for balance, but I don't think the pinky is really carrying its, it's weight. I don't think it's doing 20% of the work. No, I'm with you 100% on that. I've said for a long time, pinkies are useless. They're stupid. They're good for picking

your nose and that's it. But we can pick our nose other ways. We don't need it. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Also, you shouldn't be picking your nose. Okay. No, no, no. Don't do that. That's, uh, Yeah, blow your nose. Don't pick it. Yeah, blow. Picking will just push things further and add new nightmares to your nose. Don't do it. Pretend this doesn't exist and then grow a vestigial tail instead. That's the goal of reality.

There you go. Perfect. About the size of a pinky, in fact, back there. That'd be great. Here's another one from Stephen. Not our Stephen, different Stephen. He says, more on this subject. He says, I'm a 47-year-old. Stephen, too.

The Reckoning. B. Stephen B. Stephen B. I like that. B. Stephen. He says, I'm a 47-year-old guy who has super long eyelashes. I always have. I do not worry about them for most of my life. But in the last decade or so, they have started to become an issue. I've started to get random white lashes that are very visible and distracting.

Oh, interesting. I guess you could see him. Right? Yeah. And you're perfect. Oh, yeah. There's a dude that I patronize, a 3D printer, really knowledgeable 3D printer dude named Uncle Jesse. And he's got very, he's got very, he's got.

that very stark white eyelashes, just a few of them. But enough to where it's like it catches your attention when he's talking. Did he groan because he's stressed about the Duke boys getting into trouble? He's stressed about the price of filament going out. That works too. That'll totally work. It says starting to pluck these at random, or those random ones, but it's painful and irritating. So I recently bought some small shears that are like mustache.

trimmers and I just start trimming the ends even though they're not directly in my field of vision. I'm not going to look any more manly. I'm doing this because they're annoying and always in my field of vision. Absolutely, don't shave them all the way down and I don't worry. Sorry, I only worry about lashes that are directly in my field of vision, so Stephen. Well, yeah, you got to, this is a different case. You're not, uh, yeah. A, you're not trimming them all the way down to the nubs, which is the bad thing. And secondly, you're only going for your weird ones, you know? Exactly. Yeah. And don't worry about the, don't worry about the visual aesthetics of it, man, it's

nothing. Yeah, big deal. It's the, it's the, what's the thing about it's, it's our imperfections that make us perfect. Yeah, or make us attractive or whatever. Now, when you're, when you're, your filament guy, does he talk about this at all? Brings it up. I don't think you never brought it up.

Oh, actually, well, Wes says, per Uncle Jesse responding on Reddit, my eyelashes started turning white last fall, vitiligo, skin pigmentation, it's actually all around that eye. So I give you a photo in our discord of the dude. Oh, let's take a look here. So it's, it's not just his eyelashes.

It's his, like... Oh, I kind of like it. It's kind of cool. Yeah. Vidaligo is cool in general. I know that some people wish they didn't have it, but when I get that option in a video game, I almost always use it for my character builder. Because I just think it's cool looking. It is cool.

There was a... Patchy skin thing. One of the models on the thing Tina watched, I guess it was just America's next top model had. A really cool Vidaligo pattern is really, really cool. Like, almost like a Star Trek kind of thing. Yeah. And I get why, like, as a kid, you're going to get shit for it because kids are mean.

Yes, because they're mean. And anything that's different is a cause for making fun. But I think it's kind of beautiful in a weird way. I like it. I'm not saying I want it necessarily at this stage, but whatever, I'd take it. Let's go. Let's get it in. also what if dr nicky his appendix is important has its a microbiome pinky toes are super important for balance

yeah but what about the pinky finger pinky there nicky holding her to the fire a little bit that's right so okay i get it on the balance thing but i think i could manage if my pinky went away on my toe i think i could figure that out um but she may be right what would you lift when you're drinking uh when you're drinking wine or or coffee I mean, if it wasn't there, would I lift this or would this just no longer? Got a good question there, Brian. I don't know what I'd do. Yeah, exactly.

If you can't lift your pinky when you're drinking a glass of wine, then that's why we need it. Yeah, I do lift it when I do that. That's why we need it. All right. Well, I'm going to keep drawing cartoon characters without it. So that's just the way of it. The Simpsons do what they were doing. Yeah, I've been doing that my whole life.

I'm going to keep doing it. Simpsons were right, although they gave God of Pinky. I don't know if you noticed that. Oh, did they really? I never thought about that. So when they drew God, he's got four fingers in a thumb? Yep, they never show a face. It's always him talking to Homer or something.

And it's always, he's always huge. And then if you look at his hands, he's got five full fingers, whereas no one else in the Simpsons had five fingers. I don't know what the, like I understand that there's some kind of inside, like noticeable thing about that, but I don't know what the joke is. I don't know why it would be five and everyone else has four. Is the joke that God makes imperfect beings? Is that the idea?

Right. He did not make the Simpsons in his own image. Yeah, something like that, I don't know. Futurama folks, have they, do they have, uh, they're three as well, I think, just four fingers. Three fingers, one thumb, I think. Three and four total, yeah. Um, characters.

Let's just take a look. I know, I'm curious now. It's fun to explore. Yep. One, two, three, four. Yeah, all right. And except Zoidberg, who has just clamps. Well, sure.

If you want to count him. Well, I guess Bender has three articulating... Right. Appendages. Whatever those are. Yeah, digits. I don't know if you'd call those fingers. I don't know what the hell those are.

Digits. Digits is good. That's it. All you have to do is bring up future home, and I want to watch it. That's all you have to do. All right. One last email. This is from Kyle on the St. Elsewhere ending.

Again, these all came to film... They all came to The Morningstream at Gmail. I don't know why I said film sack. He says this. Hey, Scott and Brian regarding the intro for the show yesterday. You talked about the ending of sane elsewhere and how it kind of sucked. I still stand by this, but we'll see what he says. He says on paper, yeah, it's awful, but it gets a little more fun when you consider the implications of everything in the show being in the mind of Tommy Westfall. He was the autistic kid in the end. There's a theory called the Tommy Westfall universe that opens a rabbit hole into the far-reaching implications of this, which basically results. in about 90% of American TV shows taking place in the same fictional universe. It says, of course, this all means nothing, but it's kind of fun nonetheless. Love the show, though, Kyle,

Bill Bow Hanson when he's in the chat. So I'm going to open this. We're going to take a look at it. This is fascinating. So Duke's of Hazard and Love Boat actually could have taken place in the same universe. Exactly. Same with MASH, they say.

Cheers. Bob Newhart. Let's see, we knew that one. Oh, because these crossed over, really? these all crossed over it says doctor so okay in the mash case dr mark craig mentions mash's dr bj honeycutt in the episode santa claus is dead so if that whole show is made up any mentions they made in that show of other pop culture stuff

happening are also included in the interesting in that universe is the idea i mean it's stupid but but look at all these shows oz chicago hope homicide digrassy junior high boston public providence i mean so much sure oh there's even stuff on the web you know because other things connect to uh cheers for example yeah then all those things then become how does it they say fireflies in this hold on a second this is bizarre i love this Satan elsewhere's dr turner is investigated in homicide life on the street john munch from homicide life on the street appears in the episode of the x-files to question the lone

gunman a mugshot of a malcolm t wiggins a character from the x-files appears in veronica mars Veronica's fortune cookie an episode of Veronica Mars contains the numbers that appear in Lost. Charlie from Lost once date a woman whose father worked at the paper factory and slough from the UK office. I love dumb stuff. I love it. Oh my gosh. This is right up my alley. I love this crap.

That reminds me I was going to tell you, oh, there's this theory that you've seen Big Lobowski, right, multiple times. Many many times, yes. I saw recently and I watched it with a slightly different eye because I read this theory going around that Donnie was never there and that, I almost called him Big Dan from Old Brother Rout thou, John Goodman's character, Walter, there it is, Walter keeps yelling, shut up, Donnie or shut the F up, Donnie. And, you know, he's always taught yelling at Donnie. Yeah.

But these people are right from about, from the beginning of the film until nearly the end, before Donnie has the heart attack in the parking lot no one else acknowledges Donnie but Walter nobody really and even when there's times I was like Donnie you don't know that or he'll say something that's even directed at the dude you're at your league Donnie yeah and dude

and the dude doesn't say anything he acts like Walter's just kind of talking of nonsense and I watched it I went oh man this is weird maybe that's a thing I started to believe it and then I got to a scene where Donnie and in fact I recorded it here I'll play it

this is hilarious I haven't had a chance to play this because I haven't had a good reason to do it let's see I love this shit it's so stupid and dumb but I love it yeah

all right here it is it's like Ferris Bueller being what's his face is Cameron's personification is Tyler Darden basically yeah yeah yeah

Yes, that's a very similar thing, except in this case, we're all making it up at the audience. Of course, yes. So there's this scene later on where this happens. Where you going, dude? We're home, Donnie. Phone's ringing, dude. Thank you, Donnie. It's the first time the dude talks to answers or interacts with Donnie and acknowledges him,

which throws the whole thing in the shitter because now, obviously, Donnie is being talked to by other people. The whole point is, that character is meant to seem backgroundy on purpose because no one's giving him that they do not let them yeah exactly but then there's the funeral in the where they go out and throw the dust and it lands in the dude's face and everything but i love that i love that i like the i like the ferris bueller's living a groundhog day theory oh my god i've never heard that before but i love it and it explains so much of how he's able to get the perfect timing of like seeing his dad in the car next to him and then ducking down when his dad looks back over like he knows the exact timing of everything.

I never thought of that one. Now I'm going to have, see, this is the problem. Only problem with these things is they distract you when you're watching these movies again. Right, right. Because I had a, I enjoyed my recent watch of Lubowski, but I struggled to get past this. Because it kept coming up in my head. I kept going, oh, wait a minute. Yeah.

Nobody's, yeah, like they're at the bowling alley talking to Jesus. And I'm like, all right, what do we got going here? And I noticed, oh, my gosh, no one's talking to Donnie. He's just kind of there. And then Walter will say, he'll yell at Donnie. And then Donnie, but no one will, everyone else acts like nothing happened. And I can't. And then I get distracted.

I'm like, no, Scott, pay attention to the damn story. What are you doing? Wow. It's, uh, it's almost like the Wizard of Oz and, uh, uh, Pink Floyd, uh, Dark Side of the Moon album thing. I mean, obviously, it's, it's not one you do on its own. You can't watch Wizard of Oz and be. distracted by the dark side of the moon connection if you're not listening to the dark side of the moon

but you probably are still thinking about it anytime you watch Wizard of Oz since yeah for sure and it's just funny how humors are this way because I'll even do this with I was putting in together a short video the other day and the script I had read that I wrote and then read for myself I put it in

and then I went to go put all the visual stuff and I just slapped a video on top of it at first knowing I'm going to go edit at certain points and I just hit play and it was hitting scenes right during my breaks naturally without me doing anything.

And it's not, there's no magic there. It's a hundred percent happenstance. Random coincidence. Yes, exactly. But what is it in us that loves that? We see that and we go. Yeah, we want patterns. We want there to be, we want to see greater order in the world than there

really is. Yeah. It's wild to me. Yeah. Well, anyway, that's a fun little side note for you all at home. Let's get into some news. And let's inform the public. It's important. It's one of our jobs here. So we're going to do that now.

Today's news is brought to you by. Brought to you by Coverville. It will take place at noon today. Two parts to it. Number one, Mark Mothersbaugh from Devo is turning 75. Can you believe that's 75? That guy, incredible. So we always talk about how much we love Danny Elfman and his soundtrack work and all that stuff.

You, you know, you should strongly be considering Mark Mothersba as well for his post-devo soundtrack work. The disco-themed soundtrack that he did for Thor Ragnarok is incredible and worked so well on its own. He's had a hell of a career, that guy. Here he is right here, I'm in doll for him.

Oh, look at that. You lost his glasses. Where are his glasses? His glasses, and he had that stupid little multi-level pyramid hat? I lost that too. I don't know where that went. Oh, no.

yeah but uh uh the um uh pee we's playhouse theme you'd think oh that there has to be danny elphman because danny elfman worked with tim burton who worked with pee we herman no it was that's a mark mother's bah thing with with uh um cindy lopper sing the vocals i didn't know that that's her yeah come on it and the peewee's playhouse i didn't know that was her i thought that i knew that was mother's bah doing writing and stuff i didn't know she had anything to do with it. That's crazy. She even went under a different name, I think. She did it as hold on a second. Let's see.

She quote, oh, Ellen Shaw was her name for that thing. So it's like, it's unmistakably Sidney Lopper, but Ellen Shaw was her nom de plume when she recorded that. Is that her real name? She born with that name? No, I think she's really Cindy Lopper, I think. Oh, wow. Cynthia and Stephanie Lopper, yeah.

So when we were growing up, this was Mark Motherspot. Yeah, oh my God, love it. With the fake new traditionalist's hair. Yep. Yep. And then that's him now, looking like a cool dude now even. What is he, 70? You said he's turning?

75. 75, yeah. Holy shit, where did our lives go? I know. I know. But anyway, so Mark Mother. there's a ball there you go um and then uh um before that though we're going to tackle the album uh brothers and arms dar straight sound that came out in 1985 um nine tracks on this thing and i found great covers

for eight of the songs there's one song on there i have to look it up but there's one song on there that has one cover that i was able to find and it's a sound alike so it's like all right i'm not playing a sound alike cover so it's going to be four and four but uh um what a great album that was 40 years old, obviously. Jeez. How do sound like covers even happen? They feel like a, they feel like they're against the point. I mean, it's somebody, you know, when somebody picks up a guitar and starts learning, you know,

the first thing they do is try and learn the opening strains of stairway to heaven or black dog by Led Zeppelin or things like that, where, you know, they're trying to sound as much like the original as possible saying, hey, look, I can do this. note for note just like Jimmy Page but um uh you know when you're a band maybe your goal is to all right let's see if we can let's see if we can capture this sound exactly yeah that's really weird because i mean i also get why a cover band would want to sound as much like him as they can because they're tribute band right belamia torn again and stuff like that's got their own sound their own music or whatever you would want to make it your own or at least have it be unique or

whatever. I mean, this is obviously a rule you live by coverville and always have, but for me, it's just as a listener, I don't want to hear a sound alike, it's boring. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's kind of like when you go to, um, when you go to a bar and there's a band playing and they're doing covers, they're trying to sound as much like the originals as possible. So people are like, oh, yeah, like this, this is a really good cover of Tom Petty or whatever. Sure. But when you go to see a band play and they do covers, that's when you want to see them like, you know, postmodern jukebox or, or, um, uh, the,

the cheese who i'm trying to the natalie don and jack contes my pompal moose you know you want you want you want a whole different whole different thing oh there's such a great example of that take it and make it your own yeah um well all right that's great a bunch bunch of fun stuff today noon today eh twitch dot tv slash coverville and uh see which cover of i want my m tv and if they and if they replace the uh the the the slang the uh homosexual slur in the cover that I play. That little has a

Exactly. His own jet airplane. You, spoiler alert. Everybody who covers that song replaces that word, thankfully. And I know Mark Knopfler's, he's talking about a character

of this uneducated, ignorant refrigerator mover dude. Yeah. But, you know, it's still a tough thing to hear in the song, even though it's a character. We had a tolerance for it in the 80s,

but I'm sure he regrets it. Has he ever talked about it acknowledged that he has an interview not that i've seen but i'm sure there's interviews out there where he's talked about it yeah and i did yell mark knoffler's penis in a play through of one of the resident evil games so yes you did so you know we were kind of even now i can't without the i don't know sure okay exactly yeah it makes perfect sense um all right let's get to this kentucky boy kentucky boy i saw this kid i saw an interview with this kid Oh, you did? Oh, no.

Well, or at least the article about this kid, yeah. Well, he made a goof. He used his mother's phone to order 70,000 dumb-dum suckers to share with his friends. We'll find out what that equates to in money here in a minute. But anyway, Kentucky woman was a sticky mess when she found stacks of boxes containing lollipops on her front doorstep. The surprise delivery was ordered by our young son while he was playing on her phone. Holly Lafarvers Lafarver I think is right

Lafarvers Lafavors? Probably Lafavors Yeah there's only one R in there That's French for the favors It is yes right See we'll go up to somebody say Hey you said you'd help me move

You owe me Lafavors Very good I think that's it Lafevers Anyway she says she tried stopping the eight year old Liam From ordering this Amazon order Of 70,000 dumb dumb suckers

before the treats arrived, but it was too late. Well, that means that he placed it and she was too late canceling it. That's what that means. Right, exactly, yes. They make it sound like she wrestled them to the floor and took the phone away. Right. Don't hit send or submit or place order. Not how it worked. Prime delivery had already gotten their hands on it.

They were loading up. I kind of wonder, how many trucks? Were they able to do this with one truck? Probably not. No, it says 22 cases, but what's a case? Like a case is probably a box this big. So let's see, 70,000 divided by 22. Hmm. Let's see what we got here.

Yeah. I like to have them. It's 3,181 dumbdums per case or 3182 dumbdums per case. So 3,000 dumb dumps, probably a box, you know. Yeah. That's a decent size box. Yeah, that's not small. I mean, the dumb dumb people must have been.

stoked or at least Amazon was because they had the stuff in stock but anyway you have the oh there's the box sizes yeah so there we go it's like oh there's our picture of this they look like diaper boxes it's funny oh that's great yeah that's freaking great yeah they're as big as you thought holy shit that's a lot of damn boxes I like there's like a couple other things like uh you know 70,000 dumb dumbs um and a new hair dryer and uh yeah a couple other things they had coming phone charger sure um it says here that uh let's see amazon already delivered the 22 cases your home uh quote he told me that he wanted to have a carnival and then he was ordering dumdums as prizes for his carnival it's kind of cute uh again he was being friendly uh he was being

kind to his friends the surprise got worse though after a quick check of her bank account which now owed her or she owed about four thousand dollars for so four grand worth of suckers that's a lot of suckers there was a lot of suckers um or as they say lollipops i don't say that shit sure or chupa chupes chupes no one says that they all say suckers you know say sucker what are they saying britain lolly still you guys with your weird no weird ways of saying probably when uh so you know back when you're on the shug when you went to the bank and they had the the bowl of um dum dumbs all with you know with their heads out so you can see the flavors did you have a flavor you gravitated to.

Always. If it was purple or red. The mystery? Yeah. If it's purple, well, I don't know about mystery. If I thought it was grape, that's my go-to. So anytime I think it's grape, even if I'm wrong and it's fine. There's none I don't like except root beer.

I think root beer suckers are the devil's anus. I hate those. I just had a root beer, one of those little candy root beer barrels on Tuesday night. They had them at the restaurant that we played trivia at. I'm like, Tina comes back from giving her our last set of answers and ending the, ending our round. And she comes back and I'm like, why do you smell like a barks? That's the first thing out of her mouth. Yeah.

Hey, Brian. Why do you smell like a bird? Why do you smell like barks? Barks is the only root beer I can drink. I don't like, I don't like root bear. Root Bear floats make me nauseous. I really don't like those. Really?

Oh, my God. I know. It's this weird thing since I was a kid, man. It's funky. it like, to me, I lump them in with the black licorice. To me, they're the same. Interesting. Interesting.

Yeah. No, I think the, God, the flavor combination of vanilla ice cream and root beer to me is, it's like peanut butter and jelly or steak and raw horseradish. It's like the perfect pairing of things. And those two things you mentioned, I love. So I don't know what's wrong with me. I don't know why I don't like it. I just, even as a kid, didn't have a bad experience or anything.

I just, we would make it at a party or something and I would try to eat it. I'd be like six, seven years old and just go, I'd feel sick when I eat it. Certain things, you know, some things don't track with certain people. I used to my go-to dum-dum flavor at the first bank where I had my account was always butterscotch because my cat at the time, Juliet, this is when I was living on my own in an apartment in South Denver, she loved butterscotch dumdums. I'd have to, I'd have to lick it first, and then I'd put it out for it, and she would just go, lick, lick, lick, she just loved it.

That's wild. That's great. Yeah. I've never heard of a cat who likes butterscotch. Oh, my God. Loved, she loved the flavor of butterscotch. And so my grandmother came over, my Hungarian grandmother, and I had to demonstrate. But it was, you know, these were lollipops. She doesn't finish the whole lollipop, so I put the paper back on it.

And then, and then when I'm. sitting there watching TV, I'd like lick it again and give it to her. And so my grandmother comes over and I'm like, oh, check this out. The cat loves these lollopops. So I unwrap it, lick it, and then give it to the, like, hold it out for the cat. She's licking it. And my Hungarian grandmother goes, but I and I hope you don't ever put that back in your mouth because cats, first they lick their butts, then they go around the neighborhood, then lick every other cat's butts. And so, of course, don't tell me what I can't do, John Locke.

Oh, that's great. Of course, I immediately stick it in my mouth and watch her have a complete connipion over over me putting that thing back in my mouth. Of course I'm going to do it if she tells me. Yeah, that's what we do with the adults in our lives. We're supposed to rebel. Exactly. Yes.

I don't think I'd do it now, though. I think I would probably shy away from that now. Oh, my God. She had, Tina was there for that. It was just like her face split open and a demon came out. Ryan, oh my gosh, don't put that in your mouth. It's got cat butts on it.

Maybe in the old country it was a real problem or something. I guess so. The cats' butts were a lot dirtier in old Hungary. Yeah. Before the Russian occupation. That's funny, man. Well, this kid, they're going to give their money back. But she had to work with the bank and Amazon to get it all done.

So everything's fine now. Good, good. Did you at least get to keep one case? I'm hoping that she at least said, you know what? Well, you could keep one case. Yeah, it wouldn't hurt to hang on to one. Like, what do we decide we're in each case? 3,182.

Yeah, that's enough for the whole plan to have fun with your friends. You could do it in one box. Exactly. If this yet has more than 3,000 friends, then that he has a popular podcast. Oh, my gosh, dude. Can you imagine? He's got a huge TikTok channel, big following. That's right.

Watch me eat another dumb dumb. It reminds me. I have a, I have a niece. right now who is just sort of recently married I guess last year or no it's been two years now shoot I forget anyway my niece is

her her TikTok channel has exploded in popularity and part of it is the usual TikTok thing where she's young and cute and she's half Asian and just you know beautiful skin and she's really into makeup stuff and she does hair things and all the things that work against you

and me yeah all the things that make you and I failures on TikTok right right yes but she also pivoted from doing mostly you know like makeup stuff and that sort of thing to like health advice for like holistic methods of like losing weight and it's just real simple stuff not like she's pretending to be a doctor or anything but you know just lifestyle stuff and that thing exploded i think she's somewhere in the really that's great millions of views like she's going to be one of these like huge accounts i think and um and that's something to be proud of achieving with that kind of content. I agree. She's not dancing half-naked.

She's not, you know. Right. Exactly. Not doing the, the, oh, I'm going to put on a skit where I play all the characters and it cuts back and forth. And then I mug for the camera. And no offense to anyone doing the things I just be smirched, okay? It's fine. If you're, if you like dancing with your, with the one nipple out, that's fine. And I will, I will say that the, uh, showjo's, skit work is fantastic and a bar that every other TikTokers should aspire to. Oh, I love them. Every time they come up, it's a watch. I don't even understand a lot of her wow references, but I still love all the stuff

she does. She is very funny. I found out, I didn't know this. I hope she's still doing well, but she had a little bit of surgery. Nothing serious, everybody. Nothing to freak out about it. That's why we didn't see her in Vegas, though. She was recovering.

Vegas, which bums me out. I know. You can't go to Vegas without seeing Sarah. It kind of bum me out, too. but her TikToks are amazing seek them out everybody they're also on shorts reels

she puts them everywhere which is the right thing to do yeah put them where the sun shines that's that's what I'm saying very good let's do this story real quick a cat

back to cats look at this nice lead in Brian I don't think you even meant to do that but we're going to talk about that cat got $5,000 dollars for a gold tooth all right you mean the cat they bought a gold tooth for uh oh i should say i'm sorry the cat got meaning its mouth now contains a five thousand dollar gold tooth exactly too many sugary

lullipops apparently is why the cat got into the ups truck and we're all in trouble now the mischievous cat with a taste for destroying her mother's belongings has left ticot viewers and stitches after a clip of her showcasing her new gold fang went viral we'll look at that in a second And the hilarious video says newsweek.com. I don't think nobody should tell me what they think is hilarious. I should get to determine that myself. Exactly, exactly. Here, check us out.

It's hilarious. Yeah. It's also got a connection to where you live. Shared on Friday under the username Tofus owner, her owner, Tofus. Tofus is the cat. 22-year-old Clarice Bosman from Denver, Colorado, says Tofu broke her tooth. and the vet gave her a real gold grill for $5,000. So here's the video.

Is the cat still howling, please? Oh, look at that. Wow, that cat has a gold tooth. Yeah, that's a big cat too. That's an NRA-sized cat right there. Oh, look at that thing. Yeah. But also, that's a lot.

I think my gold tooth only cost me. I have one gold crown, and I think it only cost me, nine hundred yeah I think five grand's a lot but maybe just to do an animal's tooth is really expensive or something I mean why

gold like I don't know I don't why even bother well I mean if the cat can't eat I get it right but why not just an enamel crown or not an animal but yeah just a what are they called

whatever synthetic non gold tooth yeah I don't understand that but do we have a dentist in the house? We seem to have everybody else. We need a dentist. We've got doctors, we've got lawyers, we have sheep brain

scientists. Where's the dentist? Tofu was adopted from Foothills Animal Shelter in Golden, Colorado. That's where we got Salem, Massachusetts. Oh, nice. There's a, yeah, they might have been friends, Salem and Tofu. I don't know, and it doesn't, I think

it's been a couple years since they got tofu. Yeah, that's great. I love the name Tofu for a cat. It is a good name, yeah. Yeah. We have good tofu in the house right now. Carter buys this stuff from H-Mart that is seasoned in such a way that it actually, to me, just tastes like meat. And I usually, you don't say that about tofu.

Tofu, usually I'm like, eh, okay, I know this is good for me. It takes on whatever flavor you put of the things you put with it, basically. Yeah, but this stuff tastes like spicy kind of Korean chicken, maybe. And, man, is it good? Oh, my gosh. I would, you know what, I'd eat that and everything if that was just there. to have, I would do that. Sure.

It'd be no problem. I don't, I'm not like super into meat eating for reason. You don't eat meat for meat's sake. No. I like it because it tastes good and I need good sources of protein and I need iron and all that. And I'm not going to do it with supplements. And I know plenty of people out there and listeners we have, I'm sure about to pipe up about

this, but I'm sure there's vegan ways to get all the places I want to go. But give me some good tofu and I'm happy to substitute that in there. No problem. All right. We are going to take a break and think about this cat. And while we do it, play a song. So Wendy can be here after the song. Think about what you've done with this cat and it's gold tooth.

That's right. Blacklist Union is the band that we're going to be listening to. These guys, let's see, where are they from? This is their second album. Frontman Tony West, known for his large and life presence. Love the name, by the way. To dive deep into several transformative ayahuasca journeys in the heart of the Amazon, preparing for this next day.

Whoa, okay. Hollywood, California is where they're from. They recorded their album in East West Studios in Hollywood, California. He was raised in the Bronx, though, on bands like the Ramones, bad brains, and then made his way over to L.A. at 19 years old. Here is the band, Blacklist Union, from the brand new single, It is Mississippi Moonhound. nest welcome to the wild wild west

Almighty jungle it's time to rumble with the pain that's left untrushed The endless of the mouse must are there The hand is brushed Which is these is it to smoke and mirrors Where the pain is blood This is a sick we've blown down can you smell the poppies A whisper on a breeze The cat women that miles have gone too far

I need a backbone not a wrench bone Drap cat fancy lip wiggling I'm down with that tis intact shiggling Tess from the gutter take your calm On the mat to mama Here we're dying a laugh There's also the house must are there The hand is brushed

When she's maces It's smoke and mirrors Well The paint is blood Here's a sick we've blown out and it's now the poppies A whisper on a breeze You can't We've made the miles

I've gone too far I need a backbone Not a wishbone No one assume Because when you do You make a pass out of you and me We don't assume because when you do You make a last out of you and me

Often deep in my friend Done in myself many times There ain't no time for acting out of line Beating fast is super left Goseido In the garden with a gas station dead head Don't you know

Move the Go-go This is a secret moon And it's now The poppies A whispered A breeze Nicked

We made the miles I've gone too far I need a backbone Not a rich bone This is a secret moon And you smell the poppies A whispered breeze In the cat, we bring their mouths

I've gone too far I need a backbone On the windmill I need a bad phone On the windmound Why choose a sleep number smart bed? Can I make my sight softer? Can I make my sight firmer?

Can we sleep cooler? sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your sleep number setting it's the sleep number biggest sale of the year all beds on sale up to 50% off the limited edition smart bed plus free premium delivery with any smart bed and adjustable base ends labor day all sleep number smart beds offer temperature solutions for your best sleep check it out at a sleep number store or sleep number dot com today Command the dog's behavior. Go. Attack your master. Wait, there's much, much more. And we're back. Blacklist Union.

I just put a photo of the band in our Discord. So much eyeliner. Oh, wow. Who's the guy that did the thing in the foresight? Do you know which guy? Guy with the beard or the... I don't see if this says left to right. Does not tell me who is who in this photo.

Look at these guys, man. But if I already guess, I'm going to guess Mr. Ayahuasca is dude in the center. Yeah. This guy right here? Oh, I was thinking of the guy behind... Oh, that did. The shirt of the city, man, yeah.

That could be him. I like this guy over here with the black stripe. The stripe, yeah. He should be called... I want to give him a name. I don't know what, though. But he's like a... He's a sub boss in some John Wick movie.

He's like a sub boss in some John Wick movie. Is that? Oh, it's Ziggy Stardust behind him. Where are they? Yeah, I don't know where that photo is taken. I imagine that are those all different versions of David Bowie? I think they might be. I think so. They look like almost hand drawn. Like there's the one with the circle in the head. Right. And that one right there, you know, definitely at the Bowie eye. So. Yeah. I think they must be in, well, someplace that has a lot of Bowie shit, I guess. I don't know. Bowie Museum. Bowie Museum.

Museum. There you go. Blacklist Union and Mississippi Moonhound. Nice. Get it, catch it, grab it. You're going to add Wendy to the show. My sister is here or will be here. Okay.

All right. I have it on good authority that she is interested in being here today. So we're going to play this. Psychosomatic. That boy needs therapy. Psychosomatic. That boy needs therapy. Lie down on the couch.

Time to lie down on the couch and listen to Wendy, fix all your problems, an actual working therapist who shows up here on Thursdays and helps you guys for free with the things you guys ask and say. Hello, Wendy. Welcome back. Hey, how's everybody? Nobetter you.com. Woo! I got an email from you people this morning.

And by you people, I mean you. Oh, you people. Yeah. It's basically me. You and Adam doing your thing. It's good. I love it. Yeah, he doesn't even know about the emails?

But anyway, yeah. Oh, doesn't he? I figured he was running all that. I mean, no, I know how to do stuff. You know stuff. You know things. I know things. Yeah.

You know, send an email. Well, it's good to be here. I hope you're having a good week there in Dunford Country, you know. Yeah, that's what they call Minnesota now. Yeah. We just got to get the donuts here. I did have my first session like a little, what do they call that, a group session with Logan. It was great.

Yeah. We enjoyed it. That's awesome. That's so cool. And that's just a taste. We're not even into the real stuff yet. But yeah, I love it. Exactly.

Yeah, think of it as a precursor or a appetizer to the main meal. Think of it that way. Right, right. Well, more on that later. But for now, for now, oh, hey, I heard something cool about your governor, almost VP governor. He said that, because there's rumors floating around that the current administration might try to vacate or pardon that Chauvin guy who killed. I can think was name all of a sudden

George Floyd the George Floyd killing cop guy who's currently serving a long prison sentence for his for his obvious killing and he said

yeah that won't happen he's like I will defy that order he will not go free I don't care what they do and that was an interesting stance to take uh

rule of law is like gone so yeah yeah since we don't care about other laws why do we care about that one Just let it and let a rip. Well, anyway, we'll see. I mean, innocent people, they got to go to prison, right?

But, you know, somebody murders someone in front of all of us is, yeah. Yeah. If he gets let out, I mean, if that literally comes out of somebody's mouth, I may have to, I may have to shit my pants. That may have to have. Yeah. And I will tell you about. That'll get you. That'll teach him.

This town, this town is known for its, you know, the Minnesota Nights, which is just passive, passive aggressive anger. So you actually unleash it Or don't you know Oh yeah If Fargo the movie or Fargo the TV show has taught me anything Which mostly 90% of it takes place in Minnesota all the time It's taught me that that is That is a warning signal if someone's being nice to you know

Yeah that means watch yourself Yeah and also can we just talk about the Timberwolves baby? Come on Oh I haven't been keeping track What's going on? I know you're really into it They just won the series against the Warriors. I mean, it does probably help that Steph Curry was not playing. Probably.

It's exciting. Does that take you to the finals? We have a lot of sports teams. Is that the finals? No, semi-finals. But two years in a row, I mean, you know. That's not bad. It's good. We took half your team, you know, like they're half old jazz players. Yeah, I know. Why did you guys get all these jazz players? I don't remember what's this. You guys are idiots. No, we're terrible.

Every time we have a rebuilding year, we screw it up at the end of the year that should have been rebuilding, and then we have to rebuild again. And we're still rebuilt. I know this has taught me, being a jazz frown, most of my life has taught me to lose and to be disappointed. Or it's taught you to get right up to the line of winning and have that be that time that happens to be against Michael Jordan at his prime. Yeah, game six. Honestly, in songs even, anyway. You guys don't even know.

You don't even know what it's like. You don't even know what it's like. Still hurts, still bleeds. If the nuggets can pull something out tonight, then maybe we'll see you in the finals. Oh, that'd be so fun. I love watching Yokic. Yeah. Yolkish is great.

Half-ass everything. I know. It's amazing. Yeah. Half effort, but he's just, you know, so great. And Jamal Murray. That's unbelievable. I have an 85.

I mean, I'll take the nuggets. Okay. See, it's good. Sure, sure. I have an 85-year-old neighbor. Kim's always taking food to her. She's very nice old lady. And she's super sweet.

And she's a massive Nuggets fan. Like, ridiculously. over the top. She grew up in Golden moved here. I don't know when. But the other day, we're like, hey, we got a fresh batch of Jambalaya. Can we bring some to you and your husband? And she says, nope, I'm in Provo. My daughter-in-law is watching the Nuggets play or whatever. She's so excited. But if the Nuggets go far, she is going to lose her, her 85-year-old. Her mind. If you met her, though, you might think she's like 59. She doesn't seem 85 at all. She's crazy. Yeah, because fandom keeps you alive. That's it. That's it right there. We need Mom to get into a

basketball team. That's the answer. Totally. How do we do that? Well, let's get to this thing. This is a bit of a follow-up that we got this week from a listener. Which I love a follow-up, people. I love a follow-up. Wendy loves a follow-up. It's almost like homework was done, kind of. Yeah. There's something about it. I'm going to give it a grade. Mrs. Dunford got her papers. She's going to grade it. So here it is. I'm going to call this person R.B., because they didn't say explicitly if we could use their name, and I just don't like doing that unless they say. But here's what they say. This is a follow-up question on adoption and mental health. Hi, this is mostly an academic follow-up to last week's therapy Thursday episode, which touched on the deep regrets some people may have about not being able to have children.

One of the things Wendy mentioned was the possibility of foster care or adoption for those unable to have biological children. A friend of mine was adopted as an infant, but the separation from her biological parents left her with an attachment disorder, something she was only able to identify after years of therapy in dealing with depression. I don't mean this as a critical email. I'm just genuinely curious about what Wendy thinks. regarding the mental health impacts that adoption and foster care can have on children. Do the potential benefits still outweigh the potential challenges? Assuming we accept that no path is perfect, which I think you kind of have to accept. Anyway, for context, I interviewed my adopted friends about, or friend about her experience

with depression and adoption on my podcast a few years ago, especially in response to anti-abortion politicians who often cite adoption as a simple solution. best regards r b i think bryn probably knows who this rb is but uh maybe not i'll tell you after if you know um or i'll tell you while we're talking anyway so windy uh this is a pretty good follow up and it's also a really great question uh seen this in my own extended family's lives where adoption isn't that simple there's comp it's complicated where they came from both mentally and sometimes physiologically that sort of stuff can have a huge impact on on on where things actually go. It never is, it never seems like it's going to be quite as simple as,

we found the perfect child, and they are now yours, and you will be the perfect parent, and now everyone's perfect. It doesn't always go that way. Fact up, I'm guessing that's the rarest way it goes. So how do you want to approach this follow-up here? Well, I'm going to say, I'm going to, I'm going to really take this from my clinical experience, which still counts as anecdotal. Okay. So I have seen this in clinical settings, I've seen enough of it that I feel some confidence in what I'm saying, but I also know that this, I want everyone to know, this isn't the research on it. And the research on it is what you, you know, this person referenced this actually a little bit,

like, what did they say? You know, no one is perfect. Well, kind of like, ah, it could be either, you know, there's like a little middle ground here. And that's kind of what we see. It is not, most adoptees do not have attachment disorders. um however what is that just for the for the record what does that even mean when you say you have a detachment disorder i'll describe it in just a second but i just want to say like the numbers are don't match that this is kind of true of life right not everyone is anything and every if every single

kid who was adopted had attachment disorders we would probably stop adoption like we would eventually maybe be like this cannot be a good idea now yeah but many people who do have attachment disorders however are adoptees like it it does happen and there is a for a higher risk and and I can get into what that is okay so let's let's go back and define what an attachment disorder is attachment issues or like I have a hard time to be feeling attached you know you could you could have a bunch of different things but disorders means it's in a much higher category it's affecting their ability to live their life and function um but sure so the idea here is that there is consistent and responsive caregiving for a child as they're developing,

and that develops secure attachment. That attachment can be broken by death, that attachment can be broken by illness. Other things can, you know, in a birth family situation, that attachment can be messed with in various ways. And so you're maybe working with attachment, insecure attachment, styles due to various reasons. Adoption might be an example of like, oh, there is this like cut in attachment. And usually if they're like very young babies, you have less of a risk of that because the new parents then start immediately with the caregiving. Right.

Now, everyone can have crappy parents adopted or not, right, who are not paying attention to your needs, not meeting your emotional needs, not present. they could have their own challenges with mental health that make them unavailable to make those bonds happen. So categorizing it as an adoption issue isn't fair. Is there a higher risk of it happening? Yes, because we're blending a couple of things that just add elements to that. So for example, you know, we have a family with three adopted kids and two of them sort of came and behaved really well. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. And as much as you don't want to be a jerk, it's easier to parent a kid who behaves well than a parent who hates you and is constantly fighting. It doesn't want you to touch him and, you know, et cetera. And so the third kid we got came with really almost obvious attachment issues from day one. Yeah. She came pretty angry.

The guy who carried her on the plane for however many hours essentially kind of chucked her at our parents and said good luck like it was she was a hard kid she's she remained a hard kid i think i think our parents did a pretty dang good job of trying to do this attachment and care and consistency just like they did with everybody uh didn't work all that great yeah in an era in an era where we didn't know a lot about any of this oh yeah yeah i think they i do not have a lot of criticism for mom or dad with how they tried to help our hard adopted sister you know adapt and everything. I think they did as good as they could have done. They really, they really did with what they had. Could they do it better now? Maybe with more resources. But man, there was a lot of

therapy. There was a lot of support groups. There was a lot of treatment on. You know, they did they did a lot. Bless them, man. Yeah, I know in the 80s. I didn't think about it because we were all kids and teens and we didn't, we didn't really, we just know she was annoying. Yeah, we just didn't care, which isn't really. I mean, that's the normal thing for siblings, I think. But, but looking at it in reverse, it's like, oh my gosh, dude. That was a lot. And one element to that is we don't have any idea of her birth parents' genetic history. So when I'm working with somebody and I say, hey, does anyone else in the family have got something similar to what you have?

And we find the aunt or the uncle or the cousins who are struggling with ADHD or struggling with autism or struggling with bipolar. And we can see some of the genetic elements. When you don't have that, we don't know any of those sort of biological issues that may, you know, predispositions. Yeah. And so if you get an adoptive parent who just, it's really difficult to attach to a child who's, you know, responding because they're, let's say they have a neurodiverse brain of some sort and it's just not clicking.

That's really tough and you have to really work on that. So a lot of families who adopt and really want to do it right are often really aware of this and being proactive about it. So that's, that's the reality. I think there's another thing in the email, though, to talk about, which is this idea that we're, what's the sentence? We're not going to make this political. Is this what we say these days still? I mean, we're not political.

I think we try to, but it's hard not to. Right. But here's the thing. There's a lot of folks, like, take the abortion debate of, you know, well, there's adoption. And I want to throw this out as, like, however you want to work. with that. I'm just old and sick of men having any opinions about stuff. So, like, shut up, all of you.

But women's bodies, they get to decide. Anyway, but this idea that, like, the magic formula for pregnancy is to, because you don't want the baby, is to give it up for adoption. You know, easier said than done in some circumstances, and people all want white, brand new babies, right? And so you're running into all sorts of systemic problems when it comes to adoptions and ethics and some other things that happen. And so to just say, you know, let that be the answer rather than, you know, how about this woman who's septic going septic in Texas? Let's actually just make a better choice here.

You know, like those kinds of elements are just too blanket and too unfair. But what I do know from my clinical practice, when I am helping somebody who, on their deepest level felt unwanted. These are typically kids who were parents didn't have any choices, didn't really want them. That does occur, which of course is heartbreaking when your last week's email emailer was like, I just want kids, right? But this does occur. This does occur.

And so my hardest, most sort of painful clients tend to be ones that on some level had their parents do the parenting thing to some extent, but there is a deep sense of not being wanted. So if you're adopted and you're feeling that about your adoptive parents, we're going to tie that to also being adopted slash abandoned starts to become the feeling, as opposed to the story of, I have a good friend who adopted two kids. And from the get, it was your parents were so brave and we are so grateful to them. They wanted a better life for you. and we're doing everything to make sure that gift is, you know,

like that story was, you're wanted, you're wanted, you're wanted, you even wanted by them, but they were 17 and 19, and they couldn't do it, or whatever, you know. So the story behind your history matters. And I think the story I knew about our siblings, Scott, it'd be interesting to see what you think it is. I was always told Misha was left on a bus, and that was the safest, most loving thing that could have happened

because someone would find. her. She was wrapped. There was a note. Matt. Matt was wandering. That felt less loving. But that, you know, but then Tara's was her, she, her mom gave birth and left and they think she was a, you know, the story was always wrapped around Tara being abandoned and Nisha being lovingly cared for. Place somewhere where someone would find her and bring her to a better life, even though arguably, physically, Misha was malnourished. She had all kinds of other issues.

She was arguably... And left on a bus. Yeah, treated worse. But the story you tell each other, based on your immediate experience with the personalities, like now I look back on, I'm kind of annoyed because that wasn't just the story I was told. It was also the story that I would tell.

It's like, oh, what happened with these adopted siblings? Well, Matt was, you know, found wandering. so they put him in an orphanage and he was there until he was nine or however old he was eight and then we adopted him from that which by the way brings up questions about you know if if anyone should have a detachment disorder it should be mad because he had no he had a very early whole lifetime of no attachment to anybody except a you know an orphanage where next door they had crematorium is running all day like just kind of a nightmarish scenario and then he comes to the states and he's always been wonderful and kind and close to our parents and a goofball, but he's not, he was never a mess. He was always really hardworking and always like, you know, motivated and all these things, like the things you worry about, whereas Tara seemed like she came the most well packaged in terms of like exposure to things. She was healthy when she was born in a birthing center.

Yeah, like with help and everything. And so why we tell ourselves the story that we told ourselves or that we were being told and then that was the story. I don't know why we do that. Yeah. I mean, you do it because it makes sense, right? Yeah. And, you know, chicken the egg.

Oh, they're really nice. Here's a nice story. Or we'll tell a nice story and they become really nice. It's tricky. And Tara's example, I mean, I have often thought of it this way. She would be dead without mom and dad's attention and attempts to. 100% attach and work, right? Like, I absolutely believe that.

But as parents, you know, we sort of do that. And you take a child and you take their core story about themselves. And this is what matters, right? It's whatever is internalized. It's whatever is felt on a very deep level, very, very young. I'll work with someone and find very, very, very young parts of them that are really trapped and felt like they weren't cared for.

And then so leading to this question. about our email or interviewing someone about depression and being adopted. So you have depression is depression anxiety, a stomach ache, a headache. Our body only has so many ways to sort of show that it's not okay, right? I have often thought, if I could be in charge, we would stop like vomiting and diarrhea. I feel like we could have other things happening like a beeper would go off and we'd be like, I'm not well. I would love that, by the way.

Or a cold. Like, do I have to stop breathing for this? I mean, it's so annoying. But it only has so many options, and it's usually inflammation, right? And so it is so few options. And if you think about young trauma, like really baby level and early death or early injury or, you know, any of those things, you don't have language yet. In fact, I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but you don't dream until you have words. Oh, really?

Yeah. That language is necessary for dreams. And I think of that as language is necessary for stories and stories are necessary for dreams. And our brain's development requires a couple of things before it can do what it does now that we're all just used to. And so you take these really young kids who have no language and no story and no way, obviously you're at the most risk of any time as a human species, right? You're no giraffe who's going to get up. and do the stuff. No. And you are 100% reliant on caretakers. What your experience is with that caretaker, that mirror to you has this, has this effect. So I want to say, as a caveat, if you're all new parents or thinking about being new parents, it's like also, it's okay. Like it feels like all the way in the world on you, on one hand is kind of true.

And then on the other hand, we're also pretty dang malleable. And so we can change and we can improve. approve attachment. Attachment is not born and done and you can never change it. You can actually, you can take somebody who has like a really insecure or an anxious attachment and put them in a partnership with someone who's securely attached and you can heal that attachment to secure, which is so cool. And just statistically, most people are actually securely attached. We're looking at 60 plus percentage of people are defined as securely attached.

And so you guys might say, that's not that great. I'm like, no, that's pretty great because most of my clients are not. It's my, you know, the bad world syndrome that my brain gets to see all the time. Anyway, so, yeah, it's, it's, the adoption piece is a factor here, but it is not the sole thing. It's not causation. There's some correlation for sure and can be. Sure. And I think the adoptive parents can really make a difference in that attachment.

Real hard when you have an angry, screaming kid join your life and you got to work for it, right? Which is what we saw. We saw both versions. So I've got relatives who adopted a child at age, he was two and has been nonstop hard, terror levels, but worse. like worse if you can believe it um and a lot of it was blamed the story was a lot of it and by the i don't mean this is i'm not trying to be facetious i mean in the context you're talking about the stories we we establish about why things are hard the story there was that well he he was very coddled by his mother his birth mother right up until she gave him up for

adoption and that that separation of this constant maybe over caring for like holding all the time not letting the kid be very independent sort of mothering style and then suddenly go away I don't want you anymore was was enough to send this kid down a path that was real real hard does that jive is that the kind of detachment disorder we're talking about talking about, the ones that people fear is, is they've had some time with their birth mother. It isn't an infant. Like in the case of, I'm not sure what Tara's thing is, but like in Misha and Tara's case, they were both babies. In Matt's case, he was eight a half or whatever it was when they were. He was 11. Was he that old? I always think he's younger

than that. I guess I was eight and a half or something. Yeah. When Matt came. But it's, is that a, I guess, I guess what I'm saying is that, does that story hold? that you can, that that kind of ripping away of your, of your support system, that abruptly can be the thing that that's going to, you know. Yeah. Yeah. One way to think about it. And that is a cake too is pretty old in the sense of like you're starting, neurologically,

you've got a lot more sort of connection happening with your caregiver. And so it's an attachment injury. It's a wound. Think of it as a death could do the same thing. It is the same thing where you have lost this primary attachment. If a baby in a hospital, the reason they have done that is because that primary attachment hasn't been created outside the womb, right? And so it theoretically is easier. And so in this case, it's just, I mean, two years too long for probably that kid.

If I'm thinking of the kid I'm thinking of, there's also other mental health challenges going on as well, right? There wasn't, it wasn't simply you were taking from your mom at two. And some of it was genetic, they think, because they've got a history of this thing on both mother and father's side, the birth father, very similar stuff. So you're right. There's a lot more to it than this simple story. It is interesting, though, that that is kind of the story. Yeah. Yeah.

And the story then helps parents survive it. Just this Mother's Day, I call mom, and I'm like, having Mother's Day. And she's like, I've talked to everyone. It's been a great day. But Tara hasn't called me, like, as a joke because she knows that's not going to happen. And it's like, it doesn't matter how far removed an adult relationship is, which their relationship's pretty far removed, that you still don't have this, a child, right? The attachment still exists.

And so if you can think about, like, any relationship anybody has, we can strengthen those bonds, or they can get weak, we can spend less time together and, you know, all of those different things. And that's true. That's the malleableness of humans and bonding and attachment. We need experiences. We need the right neurochemicals to be present and we get closer or we move further away. And that's true with our caregivers at any stages of our lives. The challenge is very early, when those early caregiving moments are rough or, or, you know, for various reasons, there's wounds there. That can lead to sort of a lifetime of a couple different things.

Sort of lower self-esteem is pretty common. Depression can be a result. There's, you know, our body, again, only has so many ways to tell us something's a little bit off. And it may be that that foundational safety wasn't created. because our initial mirror was cracked or that initial mirror was angry all the time or are not available to us all the time.

That's all we've got. We've got the face of our caregivers. We have them holding us or not. We have our diapers changed or not. You know, those kinds of messaging when we're very young. So that rift is difficult. And so some people may be listening to this thinking, I've struggled with depression my whole life.

And, okay, well, let's get your thoughts. therapist to talk to you about this, of, you know, what else have we talked about that may be an explanation for this depression? It could be that we've got a family genetic deal going on. It could be my life was really hard or I had a really challenging time in my life. I haven't quite recovered from. We could find lots of motivations and reasons. But if you really are not seeing any connection to it, it's valuable to talk about. And there are practitioners that can help you go really young. Sometimes hypnosis has actually been helpful for this, hypnotherapy,

and there's some other versions, art therapy is really good for this, music therapy. There's a lot of ways to sort of connect to very younger, young parts of us. And IFS, my favorite is another one, of finding out where some of these young wounds might be and they might be abandonment things or some other stuff. And it just doesn't seem like that because you're like, oh, yeah, I got a lunch with my mom every week. Or my dad takes me fishing. I shouldn't feel any of this. But there is something sort of nagging that maybe you want to pay attention to.

For sure. Well, this is, we love these followups. As you can tell, they open up like big new bits about this, you know, the original topic. It takes us a little deeper. So R.B, huge thanks for following up. Hopefully that helps answer some of your questions. Can I throw in one more political thing really work? Please. Go ahead.

I cannot. I cannot. I don't have one single ounce of energy left for someone who does not care about kids after they're born. Like, I cannot. Oh, yeah, no, I'm done. Let's defund Medicaid. Let's do that right now. Great idea.

And so every kid with disabilities in this country who doesn't a millionaire, and even then probably still has Medicaid. I mean, it's just, it's the cruelty of, it's not pro-child. pro fetus. That's all this is. Yeah, which is a weird. Which is a weird thing to be. Pro fetus and not be pro child is like being, it's like, it's like buying gas for a car you don't own. What's the point? This drives me crazy. Because of this very topic of attachment, good parenting, good solid young life, you have to support a family to be able to do this well. Even with every support in the world, it is the hardest job, truly the hardest job, and to have all of anything that's going to make it better for you, like, let me just say, my kids have

had free school lunch since COVID started. They started it then. They've kept it going. I can afford school lunch. I cannot tell you the mental load. It is taken off of my, off of me. First of all, my boys have a lot of food. Number one, I save all of that money. I never, have to think about what they eat, I don't have that on my plate anymore because it's just right that kids eat, right? And so I think that is pro child, right? And I understand you got to figure out how to budget these things. I'm not an idiot. But I also recognize, like, you don't get to say you're against abortion if you are not for children and have a conversation with me. Yeah. Because if you tell me all the ways you want to support a kid after during that fragile

developmental stage and support that family and those parents great i want to hear it i would love to hear your plan yeah i love to hear that although i have i have this whatever little you have for those people that stand on that hill and fight that i have i slightly less somehow i don't know how i don't know how all right well that's awesome windy no better you dot com humming away uh any anything you want to mention there anything to look forward to sign up for watch for um yeah i mean You can still sign up for the Time Mastery course. You can be Brian's cohort. You can hear how Brian is changing and growing.

Right. Yeah. I did everything that I said I was going to do during Logan's session. I did right after Logan's session. Okay. And how do you feel? I feel good about that? I feel great.

Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. Yeah. And that's really what it is going to be. This is just baby steps. The good stuff will start June 2nd.

So you have up to them to sign up. Um, you know, it's, it really is going to walk you through. It's funny because as I'm developing this and filming it and doing all this work, every client I talk to, I'm like, shall we talk about your time? They're always like, yeah, actually. And then I'm using some of that same stuff with them in real time. And they don't know I'm doing this because they don't know. I have this other thing going on.

And, and I'm like, I'm just watching their whole like weeks change. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I knew it worked. I mean, I know it works, but it's just exciting to like build this. And so what's fun about nobody to use, you're going to do it with a group and some really cool people. And I think even Claire is going to join us. What? Are they even allowed? I mean, there's a reason we discriminated against the Irish back in the day.

And I'm not saying, I'm not saying we should keep doing that. I'm just saying. Can I choose which group she's part of? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, guess what? Your live meeting, Claire's is asleep. So that you won't ever have to, like, talk to work. No.

But it really is going to be, there's a lot of helpful stuff if you have a neurodivergent brain, ADHD. Like, we're going to cover a lot of that stuff too. So you're not like, oh, this is just for really hyperproductive people. It's 100% not. It's for everybody. All right. It should be fine. Join us.

That's fantastic. Well, Wendy, have a great week. And we'll hook up again next week and talk about more cool stuff here on Therapy Thursday. We'll see you next time. Bye. All right. Very good. That was funny.

The Claire part, I mean. Yes, yes. I should be clear about what I think is funny. Adoptions. Yeah, you kids with your separation disorders. Ah, that's hilarious. Well, anyway, hey, we got a few things coming up. Mike Brian mentioned coverville today at noon.

That's at twitch.tv slash coverville. If you are in the mood for some video game talk after that, good news. Coral be on today, 1 p.m. With me, Bo and John, we've got a lot to talk about, including the idea that Nintendo might be able to brick your console without your permission. Right. Exactly. Listen, they feel like if you can, if you're going to mess with your hardware, they can mess with you right back and they'll win. Yeah, no win. They have the control. They have a kill switch, turns out. We'll see how serious it may actually be or not be. But we'll

talk about that later. Also, tomorrow where there will be a TMS Friday. Monica will be here in place of Brian. Brian will be traveling, driving. He'll be listening in his car, though, which means we need to watch ourselves a little, okay? Yeah, exactly. I will be trying to take notes. I'll be having Tina's mom take notes while we listen to the show so that I can send it emails and text messages and recordings. Yep. You'll never, so we're really going to be, you know, stepping lightly, as they say. Right.

But anyway, that'll be fun. Looking forward to that. I'm going to talk about horror movies. I got big questions for her about a couple of things like that. And that'll be fun. So that's for you patrons, patrons only. Patreon.com slash TMS if you want that extra content, you can get all of the old ones as well, so please be there for that. FilmTAC will happen this weekend. Brian will be calling in from

a remote location undisclosed. Using my road go microphone. Your road go. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, well, Tina and her mom go out to country buffet. What is that place called? Country. Cracker barrel. There you go. There you have some. I have some breaking news. Sorry, I got to share this. I was just delivered buttered corn and a pork chop. And a pork chop. And a pork. And a pork. workshop yes honey this looks great you know what she's trying to do she's trying to keep me with the proteins and the veggies and staying away from the carbs and she's right to do it this is fantastic i mean there's carbs but you know less simple carbs more complex ones mm-hmm good dr nicky i'm going the opposite direction of derango i'm afraid sorry uh darn it well you're not gonna that'd be

awesome seeing her it'd be but don't feel bad i'm not going to visit anybody uh while we're out and about nope even though there are people i could easily visit that should visit Just your nephew, really, and your mother-in-law for a nice long drive. So it'll be fine. Anyway, we will be doing FilmSack this weekend, though. And if you're looking to do your homework, we are watching... Oh, I forgot. Final Destination 3.

That's right. We're getting ready for the new Final Destination, folks. We're watching the third in the series. We've seen one and two, so it's time. Can I just say, like, A, I have a crush on Mary Elizabeth Winston. I think we all do after Scott Pellegrim. But I didn't realize, it took me a long time. to figure out who played her sister

or who's playing her sister in this thing and if you're a fan of Silicon Valley and you love the love interest for Middle Ditch's character, I can't remember, Richard, Richard, whatever Richard's last name. Oh, Richard character, yeah. Yeah, his love interest,

the woman who's always an assistant to some venture capitalist and it's like, oh my God, I have a crush on her too. It's like just, you know, I get to sit here and just gush over the lead. and root for their survival as the world tries to end them so that's that's all that's all we're going to be thinking about on Saturday so do check that out also quick note whilst we were talking

with windy we got the word that there are a handful of swag bags still available from Vegas we had to kind of get everybody else fulfilled and done before we could you know commit to it but it's up on the store now so if you go to frogpans dot shop just look for the TMS 2025 swag only uh entry there. And you can grab it. Grab it while you can. There's only a few left. And we just wanted to make sure anybody who missed them the first round can get their hands on those. So go check those out.

They are up. They are cheap and they are available now. Everything else is at frogpans.com slash TMS with one exception and that is whatever song Brian's about to play. That's right. It's almost. We can't call it done until we play this last song. This is going out to Ryan

from Michigan. Whoops, you cut out a little bit. Okay, I'll start over. Ryan from Michigan says, hello TMSers. I'm sorry, but I have a melancholic request. On May 18th, 2020, my wife was diagnosed with stage 4 inflammatory breast cancer at 37 years old. Stage 4, man, that sucks. While she has thrived for the past five years, she has been hitting some roadblocks in the past month.

But regardless of those, we are celebrating her five-year mile. Stone in Jamaica. We don't have a lot of musical interest in common, but one song we both really like is whatever it takes by Imagine Dragons, a song that has a great message for anyone dealing with the worst life can throw at them. Love you guys. Signed Ryan from Michigan. Definitely my heart is going out to the two of you. Ryan. That's rough, dude. I hope she can beat it. You know, there's, the medical technology has excelled so much in the last several years, so my fingers are crossed for you. This is a cover of Imagine Dragons, whatever it takes.

There aren't, I didn't have a lot to choose from, but I really like this one anyway, so I'm kind of happy to do it. One of my favorite Acapella bands is a group called Straight No Chaser. You've heard of them in 2018. They came out with the album One Shot and included this great cover of Imagine Dragons, whatever it takes. Tripping in the world could be dangerous Everybody circling this vulturist

Negative nepotist Everybody waiting for the fall of man Everybody praying for the end of times Everybody hoping they could be the one I was born to run I was born for this Whip Whip, run me like a race horse Pull me like a ripcourt Rip me down and build me up

I want to be the slip, slip Word up on your lips Lip letter that you rip Rip rip rip, rip me down and build me up Whatever it takes Because I love these adrenaline in my face I do whatever it takes because I love how it feels when I break the change whatever it takes you take me to the top I'm ready for whatever it takes

because I love the adrenaline in my face I do what it takes always had a feeling being typical looking at my body feeling miserable always hanging on to the picture I want to be invisible Looking in my ears like a modern Everybody needs to be a part of them Never be enough I'm the prodigal son I was born to run

I was born for this Whip whip run me like a racehorse Pull me like a rip court Break me down and build me up I want to be the slip Slip word upon your lip lip Letter that you rip rip rip Break me down and build me up

Whatever it takes Because I love the adrenaline In my veins I do what I do what I it takes because I love how it feels when I break the chains whatever it takes you take me to the top I'm ready for whatever it takes because I love the adrenaline in my veins I do what it takes hypocritical egotistical don't want to be the parenthetical hypothetical hypothetical working on to something that I'm proud of, out of the box, an epoxy to the world and the vision we've lost. I'm an apostrophe, I'm just a symbol to remind you that there's more to see, just a product of the system of catastrophe, yet a masterpiece, yet I'm half to cease, and when I am to cease,

at least I'll go down to the grave and die happily, leave the body and my soul to be a part of I do what it takes Whatever it takes Because I love the adrenaline in my veins I do whatever it takes Because I love how it feels when I break the chains Whatever it takes You take me to the top

I'm ready for whatever it takes Because I love the adrenaline I do what it takes. Roses are red, and I love to dance. When I'm looking for great shows, I go to frogpans.com. That's why Sanka is the only coffee that works for me.