The New Yorker Radio Hour - Billy Porter Wears Many Hats

Episode Date: November 29, 2019

Billy Porter’s résumé is as impressive as it is difficult to categorize. His performance in the musical “Kinky Boots” won him a Tony Award and a Grammy, and, recently, he won an Emmy for his character on Ryan Murphy’s FX series “Pose.” Take any style award and he probably deserves that as well: at the 2019 Oscars, he showed up in a gender-bending “tuxedo gown.” In the words of the  New Yorker fashion columnist Rachel Syme, his “torso looked like it was smoking a cigar with a brandy, while his skirt . . . was ready for a gothic Victorian-era coronation.”    Porter sat down for a conversation with Syme at The New Yorker Festival, in October. “I grew up in the black church,” he said, which “is a fashion show every time you show up.” Porter spent much of his early career searching for work that represented him—a black, gay man in show business. Such work was dry in those early days, but it’s a problem he’s left behind. Porter’s just signed a book deal for a memoir, he’ll play the role of the Fairy Godmother in the upcoming live-action adaptation of “Cinderella,” and he’s working on a new album. But Porter sees downsides to his success, and describes being mobbed at dance clubs by admirers. “I am a person who is of the people,” he says. “And when you lose your anonymity inside of celebrity—that scares me.” New Yorker Radio Hour listeners, we want to hear from you.  We have a few questions about the show and how you listen to it. The survey takes about twenty minutes, and your feedback will help us make our podcast better.  Take the survey here.

From One World Trade Center in Manhattan, this is The New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Actor, singer, producer, writer, Billy Porter is a man of many, many hats. And what hats he's got? His performances in the musical Kinky Boots won him a Tony Award and a Grammy, and recently he won an Emmy for his character on Ryan Murphy's FX series, Pose. But for all those talents, Porter is probably best known for his sense of style. At the 2019 Oscars,

he showed up in a gender-bending tuxedo gown. In the words of the New Yorker's fashion columnist Rachel Seim, Porter's torso looked like it was smoking a cigar with a brandy while his skirt was ready for a Gothic Victorian-era coronation. Rachel Syme sat down for a conversation with Billy Porter at the New Yorker Festival in October. Hey. Hi, everybody.

I just want to start off with the shoes. Yes. Y'all like my shoes. Tell me about the shoes. These shoes are Rick Owens. You can applaud for that. No one makes a better platform. Yeah, because you were saying that the rise is not as high.

Yeah, the pitch is not as high, so I can wear these all day. It's like a tennis shoe. When do you first learn to walk in platforms? Well, when did I first learn to walk in pump? is the question. I used to sneak into my Aunt Sharon's closet and try to put on her little red pumps. It's really interesting

because she had these red patent leather pumps that I really loved. And I started to sort of sneak into the closet and try them on before I could fit them. So I was like shuffling in them. You know, like all of all. Or like Minnie Mouse, you know, when it looks like she's in the, her shoes are too big.

Yeah. And I was just like waiting and praying for the day when my foot would grow large enough where I could like walk in them for real and fit them for real. That day came and went in about five days. I grew into them and five days later I grew out of them. Were you a theatrical child? Yeah.

Yes, I was a very theatrical child. I also grew up in the Pentecost. Church, which is theater. So I got a lot of training from church. But yes, the answer is yes. Yeah, I mean, you grew up going to performing arts school. Yes. And Carnegie Mellon.

Yes. I mean, the bug must have hit you really early. You knew. Yeah, I, you know, so it was like the second time that desegregation was trying to happen, like late 70s, early, age. ladies. And I was being bused about a half an hour away from my house to a school called Risenstein Middle School. And I came across one of the programs called Risenstein Musical Theater

and I didn't know what theater was. But I knew I could sing and I sang in church and I thought maybe I can sing and I was in the band and I thought, well, maybe there's something musical here that I could be a part of. The musical is Babes and Arms. Rogers and Hearts Babes and Arms. The next week, I came in and auditioned. And, you know, there were about 100 people in the show. Every single role was double cast. So you got to do two performances, and then the other person did the other two. The cast list went up.

I was cast as Gus Fielding, and I was not double cast. And it was the first time that I felt seen. You know, I was always the last one pick. in gym. You know what I mean? Like I was the last one picked. I was the one being bullied. I was blah blah blah all that shit. So you know it just sort of struck me. Somebody thinks that I'm talented. Somebody thinks I can do whatever this thing is because I don't have to share it with anybody. Yeah only you could do it. Only I could you know like that registered with me and so I was really bit by the bug and then I did go to the creative and performing arts high school.

It was a half-day program at the time It had just started And then that led me That fed me into Carnegie Mellon Which then fed me into New York I've read a lot about the early Part of your career Coming out of Carnegie Mellon

Being cast even before you graduate Having you know Going right to Broadway Yeah You know But also You made a record at that time Yes

And I remember that you had said once That the music industry really broke your heart at that time. And I wanted to hear a little bit more about that. Well, you know, I was always on a sort of dual track. You know, there was my theater side, but there was also my, I want to be the male Whitney Houston side of myself. And so I was very much in the music industry trying to get a record deal.

I got a record deal on A&M Records. It was an R&B album. You know, the industry at the time was just. and still is very often. You know, it's a little bit better now. But, you know, it's just, it was hugely, hugely homophobic, really, really sort of violently homophobic. And, you know, it just was never about the music when I was there.

It was always about trying to fix myself. So that other people would feel comfortable around me and not think I was gay and not. And it just, it was just too much. You know, it was too much for me. And I tried. And, you know, you can go see, you can go online and see the music videos. I'm a good actor.

You know, it looked like I was straight. It was fine. You know, it wasn't a big deal. It's like, yeah, I can play. You know, my best friend was my girlfriend in the music video. Like, I got it. You know, I did it, but it was just never enough. And it was the first time that my voice didn't.

save me. You've said in the past about 20 years ago you decided to take a step backwards, rethink the career, be a little bit more behind the scenes, maybe not be so much on stage. At the time, was that a very conscious decision for you? Yeah, it was very conscious because I had just, I had just gone through way too many, almost, I call it the life of the almost. Everything was an almost. And almost because I was too much of this, or too much of that,

or too gay, or too black, or too gospel, or not musical theater enough, or not R&B enough, or not urban enough, for not straight enough, always never straight enough. And just like, I got to Los Angeles, and you know, I lived there for almost three years. I had maybe four auditions. And I had a meeting with a friend of mine, Bruce Cohen, a producer.

He had just won the Oscar for American Beauty. And I was like, Bruce, what am I doing? What's wrong? And he's like, oh, you're just so special. And it's like, you hear that so often. It's like, special doesn't pay the bills. Yeah. You know, and it was very frustrating.

And he said, well, if you feel like you can tell the story yourself, you should. because nobody has ever looked like you. You're going to have to show the world what it means and what it looks like. And that's when my perspective changed. And I started, you know, speaking that kind of energy into my life. I want to direct, I want to create,

I want to do those kinds of things. It started happening around me. Yeah, I mean, do you. believe in manifesting because I remember you had said that to a friend that you would not come back to live performance for anything short of Angels in America. Well, yes. I mean that was a put you you know somebody she did her research y'all. So yes I was I was walking down the street in New York City and somebody I can't even remember who it was but they were like you need to you need to be back on Broadway you need to do I was like I have to stop you thank you thank you

I love that you want to see me I'm not happy with what's a what's a available to me right now. So I'm taking a break until I can sort of be where I want to be. And she said, well, what would that be? And I said nothing short of Angels in America. A month later, they announced the revival that the signature theater did. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, you can manifest, you can speak it without even knowing it.

Like, that was the first time that I unconsciously spoke what I wanted. for real into the universe and it came back like that. And I thought, wait a minute. I actually said that. And when they announced it, I said, that's what I'm doing. I knew I was going to get it. And where for you did Kinky Boots fall in that journey? I was doing the revival of Angels in America.

And they announced Kinky Boots. And I said, and I'm going to win the Tony for that. So I want to move into talking about Pose. Yes. because I love it. And I know that when you auditioned for the part, it didn't, pray tell didn't really exist yet. But you knew you really wanted to be involved in some way.

Yeah, I, you know, I came out in 85. You know, we went straight to the front lines to fight for our lives. And I was around for the ball culture. You know, I was ball adjacent, I always say, because, you know, I was doing eight shows a week, so I, you know, I went to the clubs, but I wasn't at the balls like that. But I, you know, Paris's Burning came out once again.

You can applaud it. Yeah. It came out, I think it was 91, and I just moved to New York, and I was 21. And once again, it was representation, like we saw ourselves. And I got the script for the audition, and it was for the dance teacher. who's played by Charlene Woodard.

And I thought, this ain't the part. This ain't the part I want. But I'm going to do this audition. I'm going to nail it to the wall. And then I'll have a little conversation with the casting director. You know, I have a Tony now. I have a Grammy now. So people listen a little bit.

So I went in, I did the audition. And then, you know, and that's when I learned of Ryan's brilliant decision to make a, all the ladies transgender. And I thought, well, that's awesome. Now, don't they need an adult male energy over there? Don't they need like a godfather? Like they're going to need somebody.

And, you know, there hasn't been a lot of material for these trans actors and actresses to cut their teeth, you know, to practice. So it's like most of them are doing this for the first time. Aren't you going to need somebody over there to help be, I don't know, know, just be an example or, you know. And Ryan Murphy felt that that was actually right and real. And created prey tell for me. And that's how it happened.

I want to talk a little bit about fashion. Fashion. Let's do it. In my mind, you have changed what a red carpet is. You think so? I think you have had more impact on the red carpet and the idea of the red carpet as theater and as a place to express in the last few years

than people have had in 20 years. Wow, thank you. Thank you so much. I brought a slag show. Please. This is a big one. This is your Oscar Couture. This is Christian Sieriano. Yes, it is.

Custom for you. Yep, you want me to talk about it? Yep. So what happened was, you know, I have to say, I grew up in the black church. The black church is a fashion show every time you show up. You know, black people, my generation at least, pre, you know, hip-hop prison chic. You know, I'm first generation civil rights movement, so we dressed up.

You know, we wanted to look good, we wanted to dress up. We weren't wearing our jeans below our cracks. We wanted to, you know, we were fashion. high, high fashion all the time. And my grandmother could sew, and so she would sew the pattern, she would get the patterns. So we got the Vogue patterns and all of that stuff. So we were always, and my sister who's sitting right there,

I didn't even really realize how much of a fashion family we were until a couple of years ago when she found a photo album. And we started looking through things, and it's like, my fashions are on point from here. You know, the jumpsuits and the, you know, and the, you know, the garanamals and the, you know, the powder blue Easter suit that you turn around and it's plaid on once, you know, it's reversible. And, you know, I was like, oh, I was always kind of turning it out.

And so was my family. So, you know, so it's, to be in this position and also understand very, very early on that I always knew I wanted. whatever career that I was going to have to be aligned with something fashion because I've just always loved it. So that was the first one. It got a lot of hits.

Then I went to Fashion Week, and it was my first fashion week, and I was the ambassador for the CFDA, and the call came in to host the Red Carver for the Oscars. And I had the whole idea because I thought, you know, it's about the gender conversation.

And I thought, If the shot starts here and it looks like I'm in a tuxedo, a regular tuxedo, and then we pull out, and it's her, everybody will gag. Now, I didn't know, I have to say, I knew it would cause a stir. I didn't know that it was going to be for me, for my life, you know, B-O-A-O. Before Oscar, after Oscar. Like I didn't I really didn't know that it was gonna have that kind of impact the impact that you just talked about about like How I've changed something. I didn't do it for that I really didn't do it for that I really was focused on

What would be the most authentic version of me showing up to the Oscars for my very first time? And that's what it is Where are you keeping your Emmy? Right now it's right in my living room on my little table. We have a show I have a shelf I have a shelf I have these He's really special sort of round, rounded, frosted plexiglass shelves for the Grammy and for the Tony. So now we just ordered one for the Emmy, so it'll be on the ball soon. And maybe an Oscar in your future? Yeah, maybe.

Let's do it. Let's name it and claim it. Let's name it and claim it. Come on, Oscar. Come on, Oscar. I'm ready for you. You have so many other things coming up. Do you want to talk about some of the things you're running up?

Yeah, sure. I have a new movie coming out with Tiffany Haddish, Rose Byrne, and Selma Hayek in January called Like a Boss. I am going to be playing the fairy godmother and the new Cinderella, opposite Camilla Cabello. You know, I'm making a new album that's going to come out next year of, you know, R&B, pop, soul, inspirational dance kind of music. Sort of like, love yourself. We need to dance. We need to dance. I am directing an episode of Pose. I have a play that I directed that just debuted in Boston that we're bringing into New York.

And I'm going to be the first male on the cover of Allure magazine. Is there anything that still scares you about moving forward and becoming bigger and bigger? You know, the thing, not scares me, but the complicated thing about it is, I am a person who is, of the people. And I don't want to have to be a recluse

because I can't go shopping at Whole Foods for my own. Like I don't want to be that. That's an interesting thing. For instance, I'm a big old gay club boy. You know, I am. And, you know, we were on vacation in Peatown and, you know, it was Bear Week and we're at the club. Who bear are we?

You know, I know the bears, honey. And I got all my, you know, I don't have no clothes on and we're dancing. And you know, people are actually, you know, people have dropped their recreational mollies and they want to come take pictures of me. I'm like, bitch, I'm on the same thing as you're on. You got pictures of yourself all over the internet

looking like a ghoul. Leave me alone. Let me get my party on. You just don't ever get so big that you can't enjoy Bear Week. I'm trying to figure out how to navigate that. And it's a new thing to navigate it. It's very new. I was in Paris doing a Mont Blanc thing this past week and I walked 200 feet down the Chamzay Lise

and was surrounded by, you know, eight black queens in about three minutes. I was like, okay, okay, this is what it is. No complaints. No complaints. Please understand. It's just what is the, I. How do we navigate through that with grace, with grace and love? You know, because it's just been coming so fast this year that I haven't had a chance to breathe at all.

So I just, you know, I'm getting used to this new rhythm. And hopefully I'll be able to get a handle on it. Well, I want to thank everybody for coming, but especially the fabulous amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much. The multi-talented Billy Porter. He talked with Rachel Syme, who writes our column on and off the avenue, and you can find her work at New Yorker.com.

I'm David Remnick, and thanks for listening. If you're looking for something else to listen to on this long, long weekend, I'm going to have to recommend the Catch and Kill podcast with the New Yorker's own Ronan Farrow. Check it out. Please join us next week on the New Yorker Radio Hour. The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.

Our theme music was composed and performed by Merrill Garbus of Tuneiards with additional music by Alexis Quadrado. This episode was produced by Alex Barron, Emily Boutin, Ave Carrillo, Riannon Corby, Karen Frulman, Kalalia, David Krasnow, Caroline Lester, Louis Mitchell, Michelle Moses, and Stephen Valentino, with help from Morgan Flannery, Allison McAdam, Monfei Chen, and Emily Mann.

The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part, by the Turina Endowment Fund.