The New Yorker Radio Hour - Illeana Douglas Steps Forward

Episode Date: September 14, 2018

The day after The New Yorker published Ronan Farrow’s exposé about Harvey Weinstein, Farrow got a phone call from the actress and screenwriter Illeana Douglas. She wanted to talk about Leslie Moonves, who was then the head of CBS and one of the most powerful men in the media industry. Douglas went on the record in a story by Farrow, describing an assault by Moonves in the nineteen-nineties and the repercussions to her career after she refused him. “I got warnings about the casting couch, but I didn’t perceive this as the casting couch,” Douglas tells David Remnick.  Moonves “was a man who I admired, and respected, and who had gained my trust. And now he was on top of me.” On September 9th, The New Yorker published a follow-up story by Farrow, describing new accusations. Three hours later, Moonves stepped down from his position at CBS. He has not, however, admitted any wrongdoing and has denied engaging in any non-consensual sex or any form of retaliation. New Yorker Radio Hour listeners, we want to hear from you.  We have a few questions about the show and how you listen to it. The survey takes about twenty minutes, and your feedback will help us make our podcast better.  Take the survey here.

From One World Trade Center in Manhattan, this is The New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of The New Yorker and WNYC Studios. Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. The day after The New Yorker published Ronan Farrow's first story about Harvey Weinstein, alleging sexual misconduct and far worse by the movie executive, Ronan got a phone call. It came from the actress and screenwriter Ileana Douglas, and she said to Ronan, we've got to talk about less moon vests.

Douglas wanted to tell him, frankly, and on the record, about her experiences with Moonvez, who was then the head of CBS and definitely one of the most powerful men in media. She became a leading source in Ronan's first story about Moonvez, and a week ago, we published a second piece. Together, those two articles contain accounts from a dozen women, alleging mistreatment and assault. Moonvez stepped down from his position at CBS on September 9th, Without admitting any wrongdoing, he's insisted that he had consensual relationships with some of the accusers and made advances on others, but he claims that he never engaged in any form of retaliation.

Ileana Douglas says otherwise, and we spoke with her last week. Iliana, on the morning after the Weinstein story broke in the New Yorker website, you called Ronan Farrow, as I understand it. And why and what did you have to say? Well, this was a story as far as, you know, as I'm concerned. It was basically out there. And, you know, nobody ever thought the day would come where we would actually be able to be talking about these stories. But the Harvey Weinstein story seemed to be a watershed moment. And I was inundated by calls from my attorney actresses.

You've got to talk to Ronan Vero. You know, Ronan Farrow. He's the patron saint of actresses, you know, and he has become the patron saint of actresses. Harvey Weinstein was a particularly lurid and awful story, but it wasn't the first one. I mean, there had been Roger Ailes at Fox News. There had been Bill O'Reilly. There had been other stories, but obviously not nearly enough. But why did Harvey Weinstein break open the gates on this?

In my opinion, the Harvey Weinstein story and experiences of working in show business and feeling as if your name has been blacklisted as if you're barred from ever working again. And I think that there was just a collective moment from women, you know, we threw down the doors and said, we're not going to take this anymore. So your experience with Les Moonvez, who was one of the biggest figures in television and media, media running CBS and Laura Moore and all the rest. When did you first encounter him and what happened? Well, what happened to me in 1996 is I was literally at the height of my career. It was 32 years old, signed by CAA, had a starring movie coming out, grace of my heart. I came from a comedy background. I knew how to write and be funny. I had produced two films. I was filled with piss and vinegar when came out to Hollywood, you know, and I was fully intent on having a big, fat, television deal.

So I go out there, you know, to pitch my television show, and it was a workplace comedy, and I pitched this show verbally to all the different networks. But because I had a really special feeling about CBS, when I was growing up, you know, we were so poor that we only got one channel. So we only got CBS. And for a year, these were multiple meetings where you come in and there are many people in the room. You're meeting six, seven people at a time and they want to be in business with you. And Mr. Moonvez called me at home multiple times to convince me to go with CBS.

So I say, yes, I'm going to go with them. And then we sign what is called a production deal, right? That means you can't go to any other network, and I write a script. Again, multiple meetings, everybody's in those meetings. I feel more and more that this is the place, you know, that I want to be. And it's very interesting. I just want to segue about Mr. Moonbez, you know, when he says, this isn't the person that I am. I agree with him because the person that I had multiple meetings with was charming.

He was charming. He was funny. you know, it told me all about CBS. That was the guy I wanted to be in business with. I thought of him as a father figure. And ultimately, we had a disagreement about a plot twist in the script. And so I said, you know what? I don't think I want to do that.

Let me pass on the script. So once the deal goes away, they, in fact, they still want to continue to work with me, but this time now exclusively as an actress. and they, and so we make a new deal. And he gave you what's called a holding deal, right, for $300,000? Yes. The new deal is, we're going to offer you a couple pilots. He said, we make stars at CBS.

You're going to be a big star. You know, this was, I drank the Kool-Aid. I was in. I couldn't wait to go to work. So what happened? Mr. Moonvez was still maybe concerned that I, I was going to be unhappy transitioning from the pilot I wrote to now being an actress. And then I got a phone call from my manager saying, you know, less is a little concerned about your attitude.

You know, I was in shock. So I was immediately scared. And I was immediately put on my guard that I have to go to his office and convince him that, no, no, no, I understand it. I am a writer-producer. I do have dreams to do that. But I am a student of show business. I understand the rules of authority. And I wanted to go to his office to tell him with the utmost respect that I would be giving my all.

And I wanted to go in to discuss what I thought were flaws in the material. Do I have aspirations to write and direct? Yes, I do. And so I went to the meeting trying to convince him to say, I think there's some flaws in this script. So let's get to the meeting. So I go into the meeting immediately. It turned very personal, you know, without getting into the salacious details. You know, Mr. Moonvis asked, was a single? And I was stumbling, fumbling, trying to get back to the the script and then the next thing I knew, he was on top of me, you know, with his tongue down my throat. And at that point, I understand show business. I got warnings about the casting couch, but I didn't perceive this as the casting couch. This was a man who I admired and respected and who had gained my trust. And now he was on top of me and I didn't know how to get out of it.

how do I stop this, somehow make a joke, you know, and get the hell out of the room? You know, he walked away from me and I realized, you know, my skirt was all sort of twisted up. And I just sort of tried to grab my briefcase. And so I got to the door and sorry for getting emotional. You know, that's where the terror begins. After you leave. Yes. that's where the repercussions begin, that your boss, the person you admire, and the network you admire, stop blocks your way, and says, we're going to keep this between you and me, right?

And I understood what that meant. And the answer to that was yes, yes. I understand that. I understand that I am a powerless actress who is not going to say one word to embarrass you about what you just did to me. You internalize the idea that this is the normal thing. But listen, I understand that many women before me, Tippyhedron, as I say, Shirley Temple, Judy Garland, Marilyn Monroe. You know, I know about the stories. I understand you shut up and you go to work on Monday.

And I was prepared to do that. And there was no way that I would have ever, to this day, ever have said anything. I would have kept that secret locked up tight if Mr. Moonvez had not fired me. Ileana, Ronan's article goes into some detail about what transpired after that in terms of money, in terms of other work. And people can certainly read that in Ronan's piece. But I just want to broaden the story a little bit. In other stories about sexual harassment, we've heard about whisper networks and rumor and warnings in various institutions or industries, including yours. Right.

And certain particular people are rumored to be dangerous. How much did you run into that before or even after your encounter with MoonVez? Do you hear rumors about him or other people? At all. I was in an artistic cocoon in New York City. I've never before or since been in a situation, you know, like that. There certainly wasn't the climate back in the day to even talk about that something like this led to your. You know, I was subsequently fired by the manager.

I was fired by my agent. I think that the reason they fired me is because of something that was said about me to them. How did you live with this emotionally for the last 20 odd years? What, where did it, how did it, I don't know how to put this. How did it reside in your heart in day-to-day life? How much did it pop up in your mind as Monday went into Tuesday? Well, it's one of those things that you, you know, again, you compartmentalize. When you have an experience like this, it's a stumble for an actress, and you only get one.

You know, you only get one stumble. So you keep your eyes down and you don't want to be labeled as difficult. Had I not gone to that meeting, had this not happened to me at CBS, I would have continued to work at CIA. Maybe I would have developed another show, gone on, and maybe had in like an incredible, you know, great run at CBS. But instead, you go to the back of the bus. But when you read the other stories of the other women in those two pieces about MoonVez,

to say nothing of the many stories that have been written about any number of powerful men in the last year, how do you feel? You know, my heart is broken to hear that, you know, two years after what happened to me, that he, you know, maybe did the same thing to his doctor. I mean, that's his doctor. And that she didn't report it. I don't know about like, you know, so to get, when you get caught up, like, what should severance pee?

You know, I don't know. I just know right and wrong. And this is wrong. and all the women that were in the story, including me, had their careers, I believe, really, really tragically hurt. So I urge anyone in show business, give them a job. That's all that they want, is a job, is an ability to work. Well, I want to take the opportunity. I know Ronan has to thank you. You know, the journalists, reporters, editors, all the rest, they often get prizes, pats on the back and all the rest. But the greater bravery by far is the bravery of a source.

And I'm very grateful to you for that. It must have taken enormous strength to pick up the phone. And I appreciate that more than I can say. And I have one last question. Sure. There have been any number of stories that New Yorker is published about the Attorney General of the state of New York, about Les Moonvest, about Harvey Weinstein, and many other publications, have done the same.

What's next? What do you want to see happen and come out of all of this? Okay. This is my opinion. I believe that CBS must be a pioneer. There is a deep-seated history of misogyny at CBS, in my opinion. But what would be really impressive is that the new head of CBS says, I'm going to turn the page on this and I am not going to let an environment happen where women go to work and don't feel safe. There's a culture of silence, you know, within this industry, I understand it's a lot of money. And it's like, well, some actress, you know, come on, you know, get a grip. But it is important. for not only women to come forward and have reporters come forward to keep reporting on this stuff,

but to have an executive who has the courage to say, I am going to make a stand, and I am not going to tolerate, you know, this kind of behavior. And if you know something at CBS, I urge you to come forward. These things don't happen without other people knowing about it. And the time has come. This is no longer nudge, nudge, wink, wink. We move forward and we look at the facts and we say this is wrong. Illiana Douglas, thank you. Thanks. Ileana Douglas speaking last week from Los Angeles. She's going to be hosting a series called Funny Ladies next month on Turner Classic movies. Les Moon Vess has stepped down from CBS, but he's denied and engaged. in any non-consensual sex or any form of retaliation.

I'm David Remnick. Thanks for joining us on The New Yorker Radio Hour. I hope we'll see you next time. The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Merrill Garpas of Tune Yards with additional music by Alexis Quadrado. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Cherina Endowment Fund. Hi, this is David Remnick.

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