The New Yorker Radio Hour - Mexican Abortion Activists Mobilize to Aid Texans

Episode Date: November 23, 2021

Mexico is a deeply Catholic nation where abortion was, for a long time, criminalized in many states; just a few years ago Coahuilla, near the U.S. border, imposed jail time on women who had the procedure. This year, Stephania Taladrid reported, Mexico’s ten-member Supreme Court voted unanimously to deciminalize abortion throughout the country—to the shock even of activists. But before they had finished celebrating they turned their attention north, to Texas, which has practically banned most abortions with the S.B. 8 law, which is currently being reviewed by the Supreme Court. Texans may find themselves crossing the border to obtain legal abortions. Taladrid spoke to activists who are sending medications that induce abortion—which are available over the counter in Mexico—across the border into Texas. But they may face risk in doing so. As the legal scholar Jeannie Suk Gersen explains, a new Texas law criminalizes delivering those medications to pregnant women. New Yorker Radio Hour listeners, we want to hear from you.  We have a few questions about the show and how you listen to it. The survey takes about twenty minutes, and your feedback will help us make our podcast better.  Take the survey here.

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. And I'm Gia Tolentino. We're going to continue now our two-part program on the future of abortion rights, as the Supreme Court weighs critical cases with repercussions for the entire country. So while abortion rights in the U.S. are being challenged at every turn. In Mexico, their Supreme Court finally decriminalized abortion just this year. Before that, abortion was illegal in much of the country.

Stefania Teladry covered that. story in Mexico for the New Yorker, and now she's thinking about what this might mean for the state of Texas. Here's Stefania. Abortion is a deeply polarizing issue in Mexico. You need to remember that this is the world's second largest Roman Catholic country. And even though the Supreme Court had issued a series of remarkably liberal rulings in recent years, the unanimous character of this ruling, which is a big surprise to even the feminist groups who had been fighting for this for decades. You know, there was even an earthquake that evening. It was a magnitude 7 earthquake, and a lot of people took it to be a symbol of what the ruling implied for the country.

The constitutional criminalize the aborto. Today is a historic for the rights of all the women Mexican and the persons gestant. The case that was under consideration by the court in Mexico originated in the state of Kuala. Just a couple of years ago, a law there passed, which said that women could face up to three years in prison for getting an abortion and a steep, steep fine.

But now authorities there have. said that they'll abide by the court's ruling and also release every single person in prison for abortion-related crimes. Dear Red Wine represents Planned Parenthood in Latin America. The Supreme Court's ruling does not instantly make abortion legal everywhere in Mexico, but it does compel the individual states to comply with the ruling as they consider their abortion laws. And I really appreciate the directness of one of the Supreme Court judges who recently wrote about the decisions.

And he said that it's not enough to recognize a human right if the effective conditions to enable the exercise of that right are not guaranteed. An interesting comparison is actually same-sex marriage, which was legalized in 2015. And to this date, eight federal entities have yet. comply with the court's decision. But what's most important here is that in a matter of weeks, things on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border completely flipped. And Mexican groups who had hardly had any time to celebrate the court's decision found themselves thinking, how can we help women in Texas access abortion?

I recently listened in on a meeting of Mexican abortion groups talking about the new situation. And one of the key organizers is Veronica Cruz-Sanchez of the group Les Libres, which means the free ones. For decades, Las Libres and other groups in Mexico, because in reality, the law one, because the women could come to Mexico to the frontier. For decades, Las Ljeres and other groups in Mexico have been facilitating medical abortion, using drugs, even when the practice was illegal in the country. Those drugs, Mithoprestone and Miceprostal, require doctor's prescription in the U.S. But because they're taken for different medical conditions, in Mexico you could just buy them

over the counter. So what Lesley-Rez did was build a confidential network to give women information about when to take the medication, what dose to take, and to accompany every single one of them in case of complications. They see themselves as purely a support network for pregnant women. And now that abortion is legal in Mexico, they want to bring that practice to women in Texas where it's essentially been bent. Could you give us an example of a woman from Texas who has been in the situation recently and has gotten in touch with you? Two examples.

In terms of medication distribution, we went ahead and directly gave the drugs to a woman we are supporting in her decision to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Second, a woman crossed the border to perform the procedure in a border town in Mexico. Let's start with the woman who requested abortion medications from you. How did that connection was established and how were she able to find you? the first person contacted a one of the Redes Fronteriza in

the first person contacted our network in a Mexican border city our information is public and on Twitter, Facebook, etc. We provided her with virtual support so she had all the information she needed

and then we gave the medications to a person who crosses the border daily. The woman gave us her address and we delivered the medication into her hands and then all the support was virtual. So essentially someone from Les Leverres was able to follow up with her remotely and check in

with her and be alert for any complications from Mexico. In the other case, a woman got in touch with a different network and was given the option of whether she wanted the medications or if she wanted to come to Mexico. She decided to come here because she was already close by. So she got the support and the medication and termination. the pregnancy in Mexico. How long did the woman you mentioned remain in Mexico? Just one day.

I recently spoke to a woman in Mexico who had carried abortion drugs across the border herself to a woman in San Antonio. She worked with a group called Blood East Dijuan. Well, in this case, it happened through WhatsApp, and we crossed the border with the medication. usually is by foot. Even right now with the pandemic, the COVID pandemic, because I have this double nationality, I'm still able to cross to the United States. So we have it with us, and then we cross the border with the medication, and within the United States, well, we just send it by typical

male. So you don't feel nervous crossing with the medications when you do that? No, it's actually just like, well, it's something that, because also that's why it's not a controlled medication. It's, it works also for ulceras, gastricas. So it's not like a, it's not like a safe medication to someone to have. And, yeah, we just cross with it like very, very commonly. Do you ever worry that you might be sued in Texas or in another state in the U.S.? No, not really. Why is that not a concern?

Probably it could be because I'm and I live in Tijuana and also because we already learn a lot of how to work on, let's say, on the side of the legal context in Mexico. Of course, the United States has like a different process that we, we. We are aware of that, but we know there are ways. So do you essentially feel like you've found a way around the Texas law? Would it be fair to say that? There's a way because we just did it. And we are going to continue to keep doing it and with more strength and for more women as well. The New Yorker Stefanya Teladreid reporting.

A lot of what we were hearing in that piece hinges on the use of drugs to induce abortions, which the FDA says are safe up to the 10th week of pregnancy. But Texas just passed a new law, SB4, that makes it a crime, a felony, to distribute those drugs to a pregnant person after seven weeks. So we're joined again by our colleague, Jeannie Sukgerson, who's a contributing writer and a professor of law at Harvard University.

Jeannie, tell us what does SB4 aim to do in the state of Texas? So essentially, SB4 reduces the time frame for when someone can legally have an abortion via medication. It was 10 weeks, and this law says seven weeks, 49 days into their pregnancy. And second, the law imposes a state jail felony carrying up to $10,000 in fines and two years in prison. So you can't just sort of like get on the phone with someone and get a prescription. So what options do women who want to have self-managed or medication abortions? What options do they have? Well, for one thing, it's unclear how this law can be enforced if they're getting the medications mailed to them.

Maybe the government can engage in undercover sting operations like they sometimes do for drugs or for child pornography. But short of that, Texans are still going to be able to be able to. to have access to medication abortion online through the mail, especially when it's coming from a different country on a mail order pharmacy. So what's the risk for someone who purchases these medications in another country, like Mexico, where they're available over the counter? They will likely be subject to criminal liability under SB4. Again, though, will this law be able to be enforced effectively? Because if you're an activist bringing a medication across the border and you're engaged in underground networks using different precautions to work

and give these medications, it's very difficult to track them, you know, but they would be violating the law. Jeannie Sogerson, thanks so much. I'm David Remnick here with Gia Tolentino, and we've been looking at this critical moment for abortion rights in the United States and the threat to reproductive choice in much of the country. You know, David, I think this question about abortion drugs touches on something that's really important to me. I think a lot about how well-meaning supporters of abortion rights often end up invoking sort of coat hanger imagery. You see it at protests, this idea that we can't revert to the bad old days.

But, you know, for much of human history, women have helped each other end pregnancies as they needed. There is no inherent reason why women would need to ask permission of any authority whatsoever to get an abortion. We have to keep in mind the safety of abortion as a procedure, and the fact that the right to an abortion as a policy remains as consistently popular as it has always been. The people who want to end it are a minority. They've gained an enormous amount of leverage. And in many ways, the pro-choice movement has been playing defense for a long time in a lot of places and losing. But it really doesn't have to go this way.

Oregon has established a right to abortion in its state constitution. You know, New York recently codified the protections of Roe in state. law. For those of us who believe in reproductive choice, we need to remember these are rights that we have to actively, affirmatively protect on the state and local level. Gia Tolentino, thanks for doing this episode with us. Gia, it's been great to work with you. I'm so glad to be here. Thanks, David. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I want to thank all of you for joining us today. And if you're celebrating the holiday next week, I hope you have a good one. The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.

New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Merrill Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Alexis Quadrado. This episode was produced by Alex Barron, Emily Boutin, Ave Carrillo, Calalia, David Krasnow, Gauphin and Putubuele, Louis Mitchell, Michelle Moses, and Stephen Valentino. We had assistance from Priscilla Alabi, Ezekiel Bandy, and Kim Green. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Cherina Endowment Fund.