The New Yorker Radio Hour - Sarah Paulson, the Star of Netflix’s “Ratched”

Episode Date: August 18, 2020

The actor Sarah Paulson has appeared in “12 Years a Slave,” “The People v. O. J. Simpson,” and eight seasons of Ryan Murphy’s “American Horror Story.” Now she’s starring in a new Murphy production—the series “Ratched,” which premieres on Netflix next month. It’s a macabre, over-the-top fantasy describing the origin story of Nurse Ratched, the heartless, possibly not-quite-human villain of Ken Kesey’s novel “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.” Personified by Louise Fletcher in the 1975 film, Nurse Ratched is considered one of the great modern antiheroes. “I do think any character you play, particularly the ones that, on the surface, seem difficult, angry, monstrous—a lot of people don’t like to investigate that kind of stuff,” Paulson told the staff writer Michael Schulman at the 2019 New Yorker Festival. “But, to me, I think, it’s sort of our job.” New Yorker Radio Hour listeners, we want to hear from you.  We have a few questions about the show and how you listen to it. The survey takes about twenty minutes, and your feedback will help us make our podcast better.  Take the survey here.

This is The New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Okay, so I first met our guest tonight a few years ago at an interview at the Four Seasons Hotel. And here's what I remember most vividly. She was ordering a Cobb salad, but she wanted a different dressing. And she looked at me and said, I don't want just what's on the menu. I want something entirely unique. I don't know if I like your impression.

Last fall, staff writer Michael Schulman sat down at the New Yorker Festival with the actor Sarah Paulson. Well, it was a joke. It was a very funny joke. But to me, it was a great way to think about Sarah Paulson. She's not what's on the menu. She's entirely unique

and impossible to categorize. You may have seen Paulson in 12 years a slave or playing the prosecutor Marcia Clark in The People v. O.J. Simpson. She's appeared in eight seasons of Ryan Murphy's American Horror Story, and now she's in another Murphy production, a new show debuting on Netflix next month, Ratchet. We had a saying in the core, save one life and you're a hero.

Save a hundred lives. Well, then you're a nurse. Ratchet is a macabre, over-the-top fantasy describing the origins of Nurse Ratchet, the heartless, possibly not quite human villain of Ken Kesey's novel one flew over the cuckoo's nest. portrayed by the actor Louise Fletcher in the 1975 film, Nurse Ratchet is consistently ranked as one of the great anti-heroes.

Here's Michael Schulman with Sarah Paulson. I want to start by talking about Ratchet. Okay. It sounds completely fascinating. So it's an origin story for Nurse Ratchet from Wunce Over the Cuckus Nest. Is that right? It is an origin story. It takes place in 1946, about 20 years prior, I guess, to that film.

in the book. I think it will surprise people in terms of, you know, I don't have this massive wild hairdo that's sort of iconic that Louise Fletcher had. This is how we discover who the woman was and how she came to be. So ideally, by the time we're in season four, we're in that story of the cuckoo's nest. Oh, so how did this whole thing start? And why didn't you want to do it? It was actually written as a spec script.

if I have that info correctly and that Ryan found the script and I believe it was written as a movie. And he just called me and he's like, lady, do you want to have some like Walter White shit happened for it? And I was like, what? And he was like, you know, do you want to be the title character on a show? Do you want to work that hard? Do you want to do this? Are you sure you want to do it? And I was like, work harder than I have been working on American Horror Story for the last?

Yeah, I guess I do. And I read it and it was complicated and dark and not what I existed. expected and totally terrifying. I don't just mean the subject matter because it's more psychological than murder scary. Did you already have familiarity with the book, with the movie? I had not read the book, but I had seen the movie. And at first I wasn't going to rewatch it before starting, but then I thought it might be a good idea to do so just in terms of maybe if there was any physicality that Louise Fletcher had that I could sort of borrow. So I did watch it. And what I found really interesting was people

ascribe such villainy to her. And the truth of the matter is she's really a product of her time and she, part of the sort of conceit of the movie is that you fall in love with all the men in that story and their friendship that you never want like the killjoy

coming in and being like, we have to follow the rules. But, you know, I think she was in her way trying to offer them help and just with some definitely devastating consequences. I always felt like Nurse Ratchett kind of got a raw deal. She did, I think, but, you know, I'm playing her now, so I'm probably trying to find a way

to support some of my choices. Like, she's not so bad. That lobotomy was deserved. You know, a woman trying to do her job well, and she got all these, you know, violent inmates. Well, it's not even how violent they were. It's, you know, they were mentally, they were struggling. But they had found such camaraderie with one another.

And, you know, you can't find a more charming actor than Jack Nicholson. So to have a person whose job it was in that story to be the person reining everyone in all the time was, was, I think, a tough job. And she did something so brilliantly, I think, which is, there was no mustache twisting. There was a real steadiness to her and a stillness that I liked and tried to steal. Yeah. I tried to. It's a really fascinating performance. So I got to interview Louise Fletcher about a year and a half ago.

Yeah. And she has an amazing, you know, stories. As I'm sure you know, her parents started with deaf and she grew up in the South. But she told me one thing that I just want to read just because I'm curious if it resonates with you. So when the movie was being cast, like no one in Hollywood wanted to do it. People like Angela Lansberry and Geraldine Page were turning it down. The stories that they kind of didn't want to play monsters. And then Louise...

I don't get that at all. I find that so surprising. Louise told me she had this take on the character, which was she said, I just felt like she was so many people I'd met in my life who think that they're right, who know that they're right, and that's it. And they think they're doing good, in fact. So she kind of thinks she's... Well, I think when you see our show, you do understand what is motivating her.

And I sort of don't want to give away that piece because it sort of comes out in the second episode and you realize, oh, that's why she's behaving the way that. This is sort of like a contextualization of how Mildred Ratchet became the woman that you see in that movie. But I do really like that mindset and that theory. And I do think any character you play, particularly the ones that on the surface seem difficult or angry, monstrous. You kind of, a lot of people don't like to investigate that kind of stuff.

But to me, I think it's sort of our job to represent all kinds of people as actors. So without judgment, if possible. That's Sarah Paulson talking with the New Yorker's Michael Schoen. Their conversation continues in a moment. So the earlier part of your career is really interesting because you did a lot. But you said once that you looked like four different actresses in one, which is why you didn't stand out. I mean, what was going on that made it so that you were acting in a lot of stuff, but not sort of... I don't know. I could never get any velocity. There was never any, you know, it was like I would get in a car. I'd drive for a minute. The car would run on a gas and I would just be stranded in the middle of the road somewhere and not without a map. I didn't know where I was. I didn't know what the reason was why I couldn't get, you know, some people go from job to job and it looks like there's this great plan afoot. And I just never had that happen for me. And I don't know.

what the answer is, except for I do know that I spend a lot of time trying to be like other people. I was not as interested in bringing myself to the party. I was afraid that that wasn't enough somehow, or I was afraid that, you know, my uniqueness, my personhood was somehow going to be a hindrance. And it wasn't until later when I realized it was actually the reverse. Right. Right. You also did, I mean, you do have a lot of credits in that time.

You did a lot in order, I'm sure. Yes, that's the right of passage for every act. in New York. You've got to do a law and order. And it's a great, it's a great thing. Who did you play on law and order? I played a young girl who was having an affair with her stepfather and who murdered her mother so she could be with him. Great. Yeah. Yeah. She knew what was what. She was like, I got to be with that man, man. And so, sorry, Mom. You know, I don't know. And I remember that was one of those auditions, Ed Sharon, who was married to Jane Alexander

and one of the great actress and produced her on Law and Order. I remember going for my final audition for that. And I'd never been on camera before. And I did my audition. And it was one of those auditions where you had to cry. And I just didn't know how to cry. I didn't know how to do it. I was just completely terrified.

And I did my audition. I was ostensibly done. And he looked at me and he said, I think you're feeling something right now that might actually help you with the scene. And I said, what is that? And he said, I think you feel really embarrassed. And I was like,

What? I think you might be right. And then I just started to cry. And he's like, go, do it now. And then I got the job. And I did run into him not long ago, and I just thanked him for it because it was kind of the first time I felt like someone saw something in me

that I obviously wasn't doing in a performance way that was successful. But he saw something, and he just decided to poke at it. And then all the water came out. And it was great. The actor Sarah Paulson, who plays Nurse Ratchet

in Ratchet out next month on Netflix. She spoke with Michael Shulman at the 2019 New Yorker Festival. I'm David Remnick. Thanks for listening today. See you next week. The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Merrill Garbus of Tune Arts, with additional music by Alexis Quadrado. This episode was produced with help from Rhonda Sherman and David Ohana.

The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Cherina Endowment. and find.