The New Yorker Radio Hour - The Long-Distance Con, Part 1

Episode Date: September 28, 2018

On the day that Maggie Robinson Katz learned that her father had only a few days to live, she also found out that her wealthy family couldn’t pay his hospital bills: his fortune had disappeared. Katz didn’t learn how until several years later, when she began listening to a box of cassette tapes given to her by her stepmother. The tapes record her father, Terry Robinson, speaking on the phone with a man named Jim Stuckey, a West Virginian based in Manila, about a kind of business proposition. Hidden in jungles and caves in the Philippines, Stuckey said, were huge caches of gold bullion, uncut U.S. currency, and Treasury bonds; if Robinson put up the money to pay the right people, Stuckey could get the treasures out. It seemed absurd to people around Robinson, and the Treasury Department warns of scams that sound just like this. But Robinson, a successful retired executive, fell for it hook, line, and sinker. His daughter Maggie struggles to understand why and how, talking with The New Yorker’s Maria Konnikova and others.   This is part one of a two-part series.     New Yorker Radio Hour listeners, we want to hear from you.  We have a few questions about the show and how you listen to it. The survey takes about twenty minutes, and your feedback will help us make our podcast better.  Take the survey here.

From One World Trade Center in Manhattan, this is The New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of the New Yorker and WNYC Studios. Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Our story today is a family story and a kind of psychological mystery in which a young woman tries to understand her late father and some decisions he made that she just can't get her head around. The New Yorker's Maria Konnikova, who's kind of our psychology expert, is here to tell us more. I've written a lot about psychology, human behavior, why we do the things we do. In my last book, The Confidence Game, I tried to get at this question by looking at con artists and their victims, why we fall for con artists, what it is about the nature of belief that makes us so susceptible to people who are looking to take advantage of us. After the book was published, I started hearing a lot from people who had been conned.

And that's actually how I first heard from a woman named Maggie Robinson, Katz. Maggie was trying to understand what had happened to her own family. At first, all she had to go on were these cassettes. Here's Maggie. The cassette tapes had been in my stepmom's garage for five years. There were over a hundred of them, just sitting in plastic bins. And it took me those five years to finally take one out and start listening. Thanks calling the woman sitting. Good morning.

Yes, Mr. Stecki, please. On the tapes were phone calls my dad made between 2004 and 2011, the year he died. He was recording the calls he made with a man named Jim Stucky, who was from West Virginia, but was living in the Philippines. Hi. You try to call me? Yeah, I just tried to call you on the house phone. For most of the calls, Jim and my dad seem to have almost the exact same conversation. Okay.

Now, what will the advance be? My dad asking when he's going to get money he was promised, and Jim saying something's gone wrong. Someone is holding things up again. I need something in my hands. But Jim tells my dad not to worry. Their money is sure to come through tomorrow. You've said that probably 100 times, Jim.

When I started listening to the tapes, It was the first time I heard my dad's voice in five years. Jim, I need money. I need it now. Jim. But as I listened, I started to wonder about Jim. Who is he? And what did he have to do with what happened to my family? That's what happened, Jim.

Somebody stole my $90,000. Okay, I'll talk to you in a mom. Okay, bye. In the summer of 2011, my dad found out he had stage four colon cancer. I remember flying home to get to the hospital and being told that not only did my dad have just a few days left to live, but we were broke. Somehow, my dad had lost all his money and kept it from us. We didn't even have enough to pay his hospital bills. This wasn't the way it was supposed to end.

Live via satellite, the TransStar Radio Network. When I was a kid, I wasn't that close to my dad. He was busy running a radio network called Transstar. Transstar, with exciting stuff. It was one of the first to use satellite technology for radio. And that innovation made my dad very rich. This is Transstar. We lived in a giant house, the kind that had multiple wings.

I remember cars slowing down to gawk at our Tudor-style mansion. Like we were a pretty big laser disc family. Then maybe just being a laser disc family alone just like makes me feel the wealth of growing up. That's my brother Patrick. Along with the rest of the family, we were members of a country club, took etiquette class for kids. We dressed up in nice clothes when we flew first class. It was important to my dad that we presented as the wealthy family we were.

You know, that's what he was raised in, kind of like East Coast, real classic waspies sort of stuff you know your kennedy's your bushes a bumper and grinder there don't start yelling out initials at him this is how I like to remember my dad this is a video

this is a video from 1989 my dad's on stage with his friends band Flash Cadillac singing an Elvis song because it's the 80s he's wearing a white suit with an open collar shirt, and he's kind of pulling it off.

On stage, my dad seemed larger than life, and in some ways he was. When I was growing up, he'd always talk about his swim records at Dartmouth College and tell the story about the time he turned down an invitation to hang out with Paul McCartney. My stepmom Vivian fell in love with that version of Terry Robinson.

I saw your father across the room, and we kind of caught each other's eye. They met at a party a few years after my parents had split up. And then he went up and sang with the band, which was really cool. That led to a date. And it was the worst first kiss ever. I mean, we missed. It was a disaster. Vivian started dating my dad when he had already retired from radio.

He was about 50 when he stopped working and started spending time in Florida, where he met a boat builder named Dan Johnston. It's an industrial area. This is the quietest area. Back then, Dan would build a boat for anyone who asked. You know, one of my employees was asking me earlier. He said, well, Dan, he said, you knew everybody in the Cartagin cartel, and you knew the Cali cartel.

Not that I dealt with them, but I built boat for everybody, right? I wanted to talk to Dan because his name was on some documents I found on my dad's laptop. Turns out that my dad and Dan once had a business relationship with that guy from the tapes, Jim Stucky. Well, there's an interesting thing. Dan says Jim had a business proposal for them to set up a shipyard in Saudi Arabia. And I said, not a chance in hell. And I told Terry, I said, I think this guy's a sleaze bag, he's a con artist. I wouldn't even give him the time of day.

But Terry was, let's go after it, go get it, take the chance. Your dad was, he was a risk taker. I mean, I'm just really curious how long he still had a relationship with this guy for. Did that go on for a long time? Up until he died. Wow, that is, that's shocking. So if it was 2000 or 99, I mean, we're talking 12 years of he was still involved with that guy. What would he have, what would he have been involved in?

What was it? It's very confusing. It's really hard to figure out. It is absolutely insane. You know, the U.S. Fed has been involved. We've supposedly we were going to get the $10 million out through Bank of New York, Citibank, Chase, B of A, Credit Suisse, the bank commissioner of the Philippines, the been involved.

The president's been involved. I'm writing this stuff down. The calls all have details like that. The central bank, the U.S. Fed, the governor, the doctor, the Germans, sometimes even the family of Ferdinand Marcos. These are kind of all photos that were included that Jim sent to my dad as kind of like proof of what is out there. I found this binder full of documents and photos Jim had shared with my dad, and I was hoping it would clear some things up. So to help me interpret it, I reached out to New Yorker writer Maria Konnikova.

So we started looking at this binder. It had all these photos of gold bars, cardboard boxes filled with. with cash and weather-beaten metal boxes stamped federal reserve bonds. It's completely overwhelming and it's totally random. And Jim claimed he knew where to find this stuff, which was hidden in different parts of the Philippines. If my dad put up the cash, then Jim acting as a sort of middleman would be able to help bring the treasures out of hiding.

And Jim and my dad would get millions in the process. It's just, it's so sad to me to think that he could get all of this information and be like, well, yep. You know what? It's, it's human. Like, it's really, really hard to dissuade people who actually want to believe in. It seems like your dad really wanted something to do with his life. And con artists give you meaning.

They give you purpose. They tell you a story that makes sense of your life again because they're very, very good at figuring out, you know, what are you missing and what do you want to believe in? You know, it's more than just the money to me. It is the fact that I have gone from being one of the most respected business people in my community. I need to establish your credibility and my competency. Sometimes a large sum of money when everybody had thrown the hat in makes a big difference. A large sum of money will then I'll become a genius again. Everybody will want to, you know, be close to.

I mean, I've been here before, you know, and I started the radio network. I wanted to revolutionize the radio business and made some money. All of a sudden, you know, I was walking around conventions and I was the genius, you know. So, yeah, I mean, a reasonable amount of money would reestablish it. I would make a prediction. Very shortly, you're going to be that genius again. Wow. I just want my life back.

So actually one personality type that's really good for con artists is the type of person who your dad seems to have been, someone who's very entrepreneurial, someone who's open to risks, who's open to new business ventures. Because the smarter you think you are, the less susceptible you think you are. And so you kind of think you can navigate in murkier terrain and you become overconfident and then you make poor decisions. And that was my dad, impulsive. I don't think he did any research. It didn't take me long to learn that in 1989, Jim was charged with defrauding Maryland National Bank of $2.5 million. He pled out on one count and was sentenced to a halfway house.

The Treasury Department also has a warning on their website about a Philippines-based con involving fraudulent bonds and treasury certificates. that sounds similar to what Jim was working on. And yet, my dad kept sending him more and more money. Do you know, Jim, that I've sent you over a million dollars? Not including any interest to anything that's just cashed to you. I figure it's run more like $600,000, but that doesn't mean that's accurate. Well, it's all gone to you, and then some has gone on to other people.

I've got them itemized by... amount. I don't see how you're figuring that, and I'm not changing anything. I'm not recalibrated. Well, where's the 1.2% going, Jim? My dad never talked about money with me and my brother. Here I was learning more about him from these cassettes than anything he ever said to me in person. You're listening to the New Yorker Radio Hour.

We're hearing Maggie Robinson Katz's story about her father, a businessman who fell for a very dicey business proposition, or perhaps a scam is the better way to put it. Maggie is trying to understand how her father, smart, worldly, charismatic, could ever have fallen for it. Here's Maggie speaking with her stepmother, Vivian Cobb. Just diving in. Diving in.

Do you remember the first time you heard about the Philippines? Yes. I do, actually. Your father and I very, very first. freshly dating. I don't think we had been together more than a couple or three months. And he mentioned that he was working with this guy and he was going to make gazillions of dollars on this deal he was working on in the Philippines. And I remember thinking to myself, what the fuck? And, and

Just here was this man who I was head over heels in love with him, and I had put him up on this pedestal, and here he was talking about this thing that sounded so absurd to me. Vivian decided to ignore this Philippines thing, because when she first started dating my dad, it was far from his biggest investment. Out of the millions he had in total assets, most of it would become tied up in real estate in Florida. Then came the market crash in 2007. And here's where the personality flaw came in and the insecurity. Instead of cutting his losses and saying, okay, I fucked up.

I shouldn't have bought all this land. I'll just let it go back to the bank. He blew through all of his cash trying to keep everything afloat. I had no idea that we were struggling back then. He was always doing his best to keep it from us. I mean, there were subtleties. Like he wouldn't accept, he didn't want to accept dinner. invitations because he said, well, I don't want to go to dinner because everybody will expect me to pay

because I always pay. I was like, well, why can't you pay? But that part was never talked about, you know, so there were these little subtleties, these little hints, but I certainly didn't have any idea what the degree of that was. What do you think, how would you describe my dad's relationship to money. I think it, it, um, what's the word? Defined him. Money was so often my dad's way to relate to people.

And it worked. I think one of the few times I told my dad I love you was after he bought me a car for my 16th birthday. I remember sitting in the driver's seat thanking him for the car and telling him how sad I was that we weren't closer. He apologized for being asked. absent as a father. We hugged. I cried. We would have never gotten to that moment if he didn't buy me that car in the first place. Look, I need a thousand bucks. Somehow, some way, you've got to

get me a thousand bucks. I'm going to get some more of that. Here for your manners. I refuse to be humiliated in front of my entire family in Rome, my daughter's graduation. My God, if I got to take my daughter out to Wendy's for, or graduation dinner, or graduation lunch. Actually, we're having dinner with my... Listening to the tapes now, I realized Jim was the only person my dad was open with about losing all he had. For the rest of us, he was keeping up appearances.

He kept his country club membership at the same time he was draining my trust fund. So Jim almost became his psychiatrist, like his confidant. Again, Maria Konnikova. The person who he would... tell all of these things that he couldn't talk to anyone else about. Eventually, my stepmom Vivian got a better understanding of the financial trouble my dad was in. So she started speaking out about his work with Jim. And your dad started hiding it from me.

You know, he would leave. He would just sort of slink out. And he knew I was mad that he was sending him money. I said, you know, you cannot send that man any more money. you're enabling him. Hello. Hi, Jim. It's me.

Well, I just had a huge flare-up, bad morning. At home? Yeah. Well, she overheard the conversation at 5 a.m. in the morning. I mean, she knows what... I think you're going to see the end of it now. You know what? I really believe it.

Yeah, I don't. I think you're going to start the end of the morning. Yeah, I don't believe it. Yeah. I'm sorry. I know you've lost a lot of confidence in it, but... Jim, I've been totally screwed over. I'm so of you.

After the real estate market collapse, and the millions he lost to it, my dad's work with Jim became his lifeline. And I could hear in the tapes how this changed him. Jim, it's two o'clock there. This is from 2009. Everybody left this too long. Nobody left anything. This is on somebody but on working this thing all day.

You think nobody does that. anything over here. We have worked here. You're going down the tube and you're yelling at me. I'm not yelling at two. I'm not yelling at two. I'm yelling at you. There's a thousand calls coming in here and I can't get anything done. Well, this has to get done. I've been put off for another week. I haven't put you off for anything. Yeah, I've got to have a plan today on what I'm going to do and it has to involve me. I either have to go there. I either have to have a representative go there or I have to go to the I have to go to my senator. We've got going and it's not going to happen.

We've got something going here and it's going to finish. I need money today. The only thing it's going to happen is to go underground and go. I can't wait any longer and you keep me on the sidelines. I don't keep you on the side. Well, then I'll come over there. My dad never went to the Philippines. he never contacted the FBI or his senator.

He gave Jim so much money. Why wouldn't he spend just a little bit more on a flight to go see what was going on? Instead, he left Vivian with a few thousand dollars and a mortgage she couldn't afford. And after he died, I found out he sent him another 14,000, and we didn't have 14,000. When she checked his cell phone, she saw one of the last calls he ever made was to Jim.

I'm the one that told him Terry died. Because right after Terry died, I called him, and he goes, well, I was wondering, I hadn't heard from him. I was like, fuck you. Anyway, I said, you know, I see that Terry sent you money, and I want you to send it back to me. I don't have any money. He said, oh, I'll send you $3,000.

So I didn't hear from him And I think I called him one day And I said, you know, what's going on, Jim? And he goes, well, if you'll just send me $500, I'll be able to send you $300. And I said, you've got to be kidding me. And I hung up on him and I never called him again. My boy, I said, I don't know, happy, good morning.

Hi, can you connect me to, can you connect me to Jim Stucky's room? Okay. Hi, Mr. Stucky. Yes At some point listening to the tapes, I knew I had to meet Jim. At least I had to try. I wanted to stand up to him in a way my dad didn't.

And so I found Jim, still living in a hotel in Manila. I'm Terry Robinson's daughter. I'm Maggie Robinson. And what was your first name again? Maggie. I'm Terry's daughter. What was that? I can hear it.

Oh, Maggie. M-A-G-G-I-D-D-D-D. Dottie, is it? Maggie, Terry Robinson's daughter. And Dottie. Okay, well, you know, I'm waiting for a conference call here. Okay. And the story that we're going to get into with Terry is going to take quite a while to get the entire story out. Oh, my God.

I cannot wait to hear it. But I'm... It's a very interesting story. I think that everybody would be interested in it. Jay was a very good man and a good friend. I know. I can't believe how I sound. I'm talking to the guy who maybe conned my dad and I sound like this.

But actually, I would love to come and meet you and hear the story in person. Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. Awesome. We're here in humanitarian services, so we don't have any hidden agenda. Well, I'll email you as I get my trip planned more, and I'm really looking forward to seeing you. and talking with you. Thank you very much. I look forward to seeing you.

Okay, me too. Okay, have a good day. Thank you. Bye. I mean, tip number one, don't go. Maria Konnikova. And don't underestimate old men. No, seriously, these, they're sometimes the most vicious.

They are people who've been con artists their entire life. And if you think they have end of life regrets, think again. I mean, I don't think Jim is going to assault. him, but someone else might. I'm not sure if Jim conned my family. It's possible he really did believe the treasures were real.

Or maybe there's some other explanation. But Maria thinks that if there's even a potential that Jim is a con artist, is reason enough not to meet him. And because Jim is old, he's going to use that against you. You say, look at me,

like I'm a poor man, and you'll see him, and he's going to actually look much more pathetic to you. then he looks to anyone else. He's going to make sure of it. You know, he's going to arrive with a catheter. And he, seriously, looking just really, just, you know, he's doing everything he can for you. And he's going to talk to you and he's going to seem nice and you're going to say, oh, like, you know, maybe he's not such a bad guy. So you don't think I should meet him? No. I don't think, I mean, no, I don't. I don't. I think. I mean, no, I don't. I think. I think that once that happens and they breach kind of the distance between the two of you,

that's the moment that objectivity stops. That's why it's always very easy to tell when other people have been conned, but the people in the con can't tell, and we judge them for it. Of course! I have a good luck. Thank you. Seriously, stay with you. Be careful. Okay.

Yeah. No, I know you're right. Be careful. I still don't think this is a good idea. That's Maria Konnikova speaking with Maggie Robinson Katz. Our story, The Long Distance Con, continues next week, when maybe not surprisingly, Maggie chose to ignore her expert's advice. So what are we about to do?

We're about to get on this plane of Manila to go meet Jim. The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. Maggie Robinson Katz's story was produced by Daniel Gaimette, with Ben Katz and Mack Montandon, with assistance from Michelle Moses and Zach Helfend. Our theme music was composed and performed by Merrill Garbus of Tune Yards with additional music by Alexis Quadrado. This episode was produced by Alex Barron,

Emily Boutin, Ave Carrillo, Riannon Corby, Jill Duboff, Calalia, Karen Frillman, David Krasnell, Louis Mitchell, Sarah Nix, and Stephen Valentino, with help from Emily Mann and Jessica Henderson. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Churina Endowment Fund. Want to see your favorite writers live on stage? Come to the New Yorker Festival, October 5th through 7th, and you can experience conversations and panels

with the likes of Malcolm Gladwell, Zadie Smith, Haruki Morikami, Gary Steingart, and many more. See the full festival lineup and buy tickets at New Yorker.com slash festival. That's new yorker.com slash festival.