The New Yorker Radio Hour - To Stop the Shooting, Lupe Cruz Gets Between the People with the Guns

Episode Date: February 12, 2019

Conversations about gun reform are often galvanized by catastrophic mass shootings. But gun violence mostly unfolds as a matter of awful routine: domestic-partner homicides, suicides, and shootings between people who know each other are everyday occurrences. “All this [talk of] legislation, that doesn’t mean anything for us,” Lupe Cruz says, in the Little Village neighborhood of Chicago. “Most of the guns in this community are stolen. This is the real world.” A onetime gang member, Cruz mediated disputes informally for years before being recruited by an organization called Cure Violence. Their trained mediators, or “interrupters,” will show up after shootings or at funerals, and talk down the people who are likely to retaliate. Cruz now leads Cure Violence projects in Latin America and elsewhere. But she still mediates in her old neighborhood, where the stakes are very high: if her intervention doesn’t work, someone she knows may get shot—maybe right in front of her, which is what happened in November. She is getting tired and would like to “pass on the torch,” she tells the reporter Caroline Lester. But they need her in Little Village. New Yorker Radio Hour listeners, we want to hear from you.  We have a few questions about the show and how you listen to it. The survey takes about twenty minutes, and your feedback will help us make our podcast better.  Take the survey here.

From One World Trade Center in Manhattan, this is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of the New Yorker and WNYC Studios. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. We've been talking this hour about guns, gun regulation and gun rights, and the shifting politics that affects so many people's lives. These conversations often focus around the plague of mass shootings, but in many communities across the country,

gun violence unfolds not as a shocking, horror, but as a matter of awful routine. And gun control, possible or not, isn't going to change that. People come to Chicago, but they don't really go into the community. You know, you were talking about guns and all this legislation. That doesn't do nothing for us over here. That doesn't mean anything for us. Because you'll hear about the way most of the guns in this community are stolen, you know?

It's, this is the real world you're going to see. Lupe Cruz works for an organization called Cure Violence. The group trains mediators to intervene in disputes and break the cycle of violence. Mediators like Lupe will show up to a funeral or right after a shooting takes place and talk to the people who are most likely to retaliate and try to convince them not to. And when it comes to gun violence, Cruz has suffered enough to know what she's talking about. The radio hours Caroline Lester went to talk with Lupe Cruz. Hi, I find to get to meet you, right?

It's so good to meet you. Thank you so much. You're welcome. How are you doing? I'm good. Well, my car didn't start, so I had to borrow my daughter's truck. Oh. So right now we're going to go, this is the community I grew up in.

Lupe's driving me around Little Village. It's about eight miles from downtown Chicago. This is 26th Street. This is the main street of Little Village. I grew up on this side, which is the west side of the little village. And after we crossed a certain street, we're on the east side. When I became older, I wound up having a business on the east side. So it was kind of weird.

It was a candy store in arcade that she opened with her husband. This is back in the 80s. The neighborhood kids would come to play Pac-Man, and she made friends with them. They were my kids. I remember I used to take them home with me. I used to get in trouble with my husband. What are you doing? I used to give everything away.

I was always in trouble. That's kind of how Lupe started doing mediation. She had connections on both sides of Little Village. She had been in a gang when she was young, and much later, she lost her husband in a robbery. Lupe had the credibility to talk people out of using their guns. And that's the work she was eventually hired to do. This is supposed to be Lou Be's day off, but she's on a mission.

A young couple named Anna and Lewis left their home after somebody tried to kill Lewis, but now they can't pay their motel bill. They have to be out of this place by 11. She's ready to get birth. Where are they going to go? So I'm going to pay for another week for them to stay there until I figure out what I can do from there. The organization Lubei works for, Cure Violence, has been very successful in Chicago. But when it doesn't work, that's someone in your community who gets shot.

Maybe someone you know. Last November, she got a call about a young man named Josh. She'd known him since he was a little kid. Josh was in a conflict, and his brother asked Lupa to step in. But when she went to go pick him up, he was shot, right outside his door. It happened right in front of me. Yeah. I remember I opened the door and threw myself on the floor.

I'm old already. I can't even, you know, I prayed when I was on the floor. I said, shit. This is not the way I want to go up. I was hearing the gunshots in front of me. So I didn't know if they had jumped down. They were going to kill all of us. I didn't know. It was at that moment, you know. So I was on this side. I had opened this door. I didn't have my truck that day. They know my truck. I was in a rental. You think they wouldn't have shot? They know my truck. I always wonder that's something that I feel like

everybody knows my truck that they hadn't had my truck. I don't know if it would have made a difference, but I know the guys know my truck and they wouldn't disrespect me that way, you know? Yeah. Let's go into church. All right.

How are you? Hi. All right. Where are we right now? We're at La Villita Community Church. It's a... I love this place. Hi, Pastor.

Hi, Maria Lulay. Hi, I'm Caroline. Victor Roudre is away. Nice to meet you. The pastor is going to give Lupa money from the church's emergency fund to help Anna and Lewis, the couple from the motel.

But Lupa also just needs to talk. She's been struggling since Josh was killed. It was just a few months ago. Pastor Vick also seen Josh grow up. up, you know, I think this was personal for all of us. It was. It was, it was, yeah, yeah, it was. I mean, his death is personal because we saw him since he was a little kid.

And one of the funny stories that I told at his funeral was that, you know, no matter how he was, he'd show up to church, you know, he showed up with a broken jaw one time. And he was wired and he said, well, at least I lose weight. You know, but he was a kid with a soft heart. He was a kid with truly a soft heart. And yeah, and so, yeah, they live a ripple effect behind mothers and brothers and friends. And, you know, there's a void. There's a void.

somebody has been stolen. It was just like, because I deal with this all the time, this was just different. A lot of times we just move on. We do funerals and go back to our regular routine. You know,

some of these things make us feel like I can't do it no more. I couldn't get anybody to come out and sign a check so it's cash. I don't sign check so. And I'll be in a receipt so you could have it for your thing. After we talk, Brings Lupe the money.

We leave the church and head over to meet Anna Lewis and their kids. Lupe brought a pile of toys. It's like my mom, because my mom's not here. She takes care of you? Yeah, and my kids. And what kind of stuff has she done with you? The real stuff, like telling you to stay out of trouble. Yeah, yeah, she yells at us.

She yells at us if she sees us outside where we're not supposed to be. being strapped up when you're not supposed to be. Strapped up means when they're carrying a gun when they shouldn't be. I finally got the story of what happened. Last month, a rival gang shot at Lewis while he was standing outside of his house in his own territory. Lupe mediated, she told him not to retaliate, and she talked to the other gang who said they wouldn't come back.

But Lewis and Anna were still scared, and they left their home. That's why they're here. Was that the first time you'd been to? shot at at your house? Uh-uh. Uh-uh. No. No. No. It was like the second time. But right there, yeah. Right there at that apartment, yeah,

it's second time. Did you have a problem with your gang if you had to leave, if you had to choose your family? I mean, I'm still, I am what I am, you know what I'm saying? But I'm making better decisions. You know what I'm saying? I'm not in the blacks. I'm not causing trouble or looking for trouble, you know? I'm trying to be a family man now.

We got to go, I have to go meet up with somebody. I'm going to come back to you your stuff, okay? So I'd take you for a toy, give a hug. So that's why they had to move, I didn't realize. We were going to have up that. He would have wound up in jail. Or he would have killed someone. Do you used to be in a gang?

Yes. Yeah, that girl. Where Anna? That was Anna. That was Anna. I get it. I understand. I know what it feels like.

Not to have, to need, to want. That was me. So I get it. I come from there. And I know that you can make it out. I know everything she's going through, she's going to use it to help somebody else. You know, I believe it.

That was me. You just have to believe in them. Look at their life. Look at the way, look at how cold it is. They would have been in the street today with them kids. It's hard living that life. When you don't have support from your family, their family don't support them. So what do they do?

I'm going to tell you what he would do. If we didn't help him, he'd grab a gun and go rob people. You know, the real world? that's what he would do. And it's sad because he could kill somebody for $8 like they did to my husband. You know?

But it doesn't seem to make you mad at him. I'm not mad at him because he's just trying to survive. We're coming up on our last stop. Lupe needs to drop off food for a friend who got out of prison. She's got Tostones and containers of soup in the back. After this, She'll go home to be with her daughter and grandson.

She sees her seven grown children all the time. She's built a stable life. But the phone calls at 3 in the morning don't stop. And today, she's been driving around since 9 a.m. And it's minus 10 outside. She tells me she feels old. Do you ever get scared? I'm not scared.

I was scared that day with Josh. They jumped out. They killed him in front of me, you know. I mean, this is the work we do. You know? Man, I need to pass my torch over. I'm tired. Do you have the kids that still depend on us, you know? Yeah. They have the calls that sometimes you look at it and you say,

damn, should I answer? And if you don't, you know, but if something happens, and it's hard. It's a very heavy weight to walk around with every day. I think it's become a norm for us. For me, this is, it's a hard job. But when you come from the street, you get it, you know? I'm at my way there to drop off some food.

They're there in about 15 minutes. Lupe Cruz in Chicago. She works for the organization, Cure Violence, running their mediation programs in Latin America. Caroline Lester produces for us at the New Yorker Radio Hour. And that's our show for today. I'm David Remnick, and I want to thank you for joining us. The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.

Our theme music was composed by Merrill Garbus of Tune Yards. Special music used in this episode is courtesy of the composer and guitarist Ben Mondar. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Turina Endowment Fund.