The Nick Bare Podcast - 043: For the Love of the Marathon with Joe Greer

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

In today's podcast, I sat down with Joe Greer to discuss our preparations for the upcoming California International Marathon. We explore how running enhances creativity and helps clear mental space, sharing our techniques for ensuring we are mentally and physically prepared for the race. There is a wealth of insight into the power of running as a tool for physical and mental wellness, and it will help anyone looking to run faster and smarter. Enjoy! Save 10% at BPN Supps: https://bit.ly/nickbare10audio Follow for more:  IG: https://www.instagram.com/nickbarefitness/ YT: https://www.youtube.com/@nickbarefitness Keep up with Joe here: IG: https://www.instagram.com/ioegreer/ Topics: 00:00 Intro 1:35 Welcome 2:22 CIM prep 8:23 Strength training for marathon prep 12:49 Physical and mental preparation for a big run 25:50 Marathon experiences 33:39 Why Joe loves marathons 40:23 What sets your soul on fire 47:07 Joe tries the beets 50:21 The Wall 58:19 Setting the conditions 1:04:35 What running does creatively and mentally 1:17:19 The best run of your life

People in a big race, they're on pace for the time they want, but they mentally give up on themselves. And he talked to them afterwards, what happened? It got hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's supposed to be hard. Yeah. That's why we sign up for it. Yeah, exactly. That's why we prepare for it. You know, I text my coach, Jeff after some of these big workouts. Yeah. I'll crush a Wednesday morning workout. And he'll be like, how was it? Like, yeah, I hit all my times. It was hard. I'm not going to lie. He said, it's supposed to be. Yep. That's good. Yeah, you're right.

Yep. I'm supposed to be putting out this big, big effort. Right. It shouldn't be smooth all the time. 100%. Yeah. Be honest. Are you going to break 245?

I think I'm going to break 240. I think I'm going to crush it, you. I think he will break 240. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to thank you for tuning in and supporting the brand. Now, I have spent the last decade plus of my life building bare performance nutrition, and we create effective supplements that you can trust to support your wellness, endurance, and performance goals. We offer high-quality, great-tasting weight protein powders,

effective pre-workouts, superfoods, sleep support, electrolytes, and much more. So if you want to support the content that we produce and the message that I am sharing through my content and on this podcast, I would greatly appreciate it if you went to bpnsups.com and you can use code Nick Bear 10 to save 10% off your next order. So thank you guys. I appreciate you. and let's dive into the show. Today on the podcast, we have part two of the Joe Greer story. The reason we're doing part two is because in part one,

we didn't get into anything related to running, which was the reason we wanted to sit down and have a conversation. 100%. I mean, it felt like we were talking for maybe 30, 40 minutes, and the next time I know, it's, oh, we've been here for an hour and 37 minutes. It's a great conversation. It was a great conversation,

which thank you, by the way. That was so much fun and had an incredible conversation. and even equally stoked to chat about running, all things running, which you and I are in the thick of it right now. This is peak week. How many days? As of today, I believe it's 23. 23 days. Wow.

23 days out from CIM 2023. You did CIM last year. I did. Correct? Yep. Yep. So it's been a little, yeah, I was hoping to have run more marathons from CIM until now, last CIM until now, as I I pulled out of Chicago two months back,

but I'm very grateful to be somewhat healthy heading into CIM. And yeah, it's an incredible course. Very predictable weather, very consistent weather. If you look back in the last like five years, net downhill, fastest course on the West Coast. That's what I've heard. It's beautiful.

It's such a good time. I mean, especially with the Olympic trials qualifying, it's the last race that you can run to qualify for this coming Olympic trials. So it's just going to be so stacked. from the 218 guys that are trying to qualify, all the way to the 237 women that are trying to qualify, that like 20 minute plus gap is just going to be loaded,

which you'll probably be right up in that, especially after that freaking eight-by-mile that you put up the other day, dude. I think you're going to breeze past 245, barring good weather. I mean, like I said, this is, right now I'm in peak week. I'm sure you're in peak week too. Yep. This past Wednesday's workout was eight times a mile. I was supposed to hold a 540 pace

ended up holding sub 530 pace. Yep. I was between like a 527, 531 mile split. Mm-hmm. It felt really strong. Yeah. Obviously, we're at a point right now where we're carrying a level of fatigue

that's expected. Exactly. We both have about a 22-mile or tomorrow with structure. Yep. And then slowly start reducing intensity of volume, going to the taper, and then to the line, CIM feeling super strong.

I hope so. That's the plan. Would you run CIM last year? Yeah, I ran a 236-47. So it was about a 13-minute PR from my first marathon in New York, 2021, ran a 249, and then ran a 236 the following year. So this will be your third marathon. Third marathon, yeah.

And you're going for sub-230. I am. However, that may change the goal. It's the last. like two months, I've been dealing with a weird hamstring kind of pinching situation, which recently saw my PT this last week and realized it's all stemming from my hips, specifically my left hip is just unbelievably tight. And it's causing everything else to seize up. I was in Italy shooting a friend's wedding. The day of the wedding, I did like a half marathon run, 7.05 average.

Nothing around like a coma was so beautiful. And I was like, I got to get up, get a run in before this long workday. And then like an idiot, I went on to work 12 hours shooting this wedding in loafers. And so my feet were just... I was going to ask you what shoes you were wearing. Blasted. They were not ons. They were not hokas, which I should have done now looking back. But ever since then, that is when I noticed some situation going on with my hamstring. I had to unfortunately kind of back off and pull out of Chicago. Thankfully, I had CIM as a backup. And I just like, let me just like, I had missed, I mean, well, it's just been one of the most challenging builds so far in my running career.

Becoming a new father, my work and travel has picked up so much. And then just the inconsistency of all the traveling and bad weather. I've gotten really unlucky with just bad weather for like a lot of my workouts in long runs. And it's just been a lot to juggle and to balance, which I have not had to do in the previous two marathons. So I've learned a lot. I think, you know, I'm running Boston in April. So I think by then, hopefully all of her have a little bit more of a consistent sleep schedule, which obviously I'll hopefully get more sleep, which obviously helps recovery.

I'll pray for you. Thank you. I need it. And I know you're a little bit past that. You know, you're Charlie's well beyond a year. So I've just been a season of just learning, not trying to be too hard on myself. But to know. So now it's just like after talking to my coach, missing some workouts, dealing with this hamstring thing.

I think about like three weeks or a month ago, I got COVID. So it was just this like thing after thing after thing after thing that just kept coming up. I'm like, oh my gosh, dude, why can't it just? I felt like the pieces weren't falling into place. And so I'm heading to CIM still in deep, pretty decent shape. Yeah, I did a very similar workout to you a few days ago and was averaging, you know, mid to low 520s for my mile repeats and felt strong. But tomorrow is going to be the deciding factor. or how that two and a half hours workout goes tomorrow will let me know truly where my fitness is.

Do I change up my goal a little bit? I've got a handful of friends going at that 230 mark running at that 540s, 543s. But I'm like, man, do I just try to PR? I'd be so happy, content with all that I've had to dealt with during this build. Like, man, if I could go 233, 234, 232, I'd be very happy. So that's, I'm just trying to get in the mindset now. A job just came up the day after CIM. I have to fly to Hawaii to do a shoot for a week with REI.

And I'm just like, I had, like the recovery is going to be just bizarre. And I would love to not get on a flight and fly to Hawaii. But trying to look at the positive of everything. So there's just, yeah, there's a lot. And I'm just trying to just process it all mentally as I was, I've been so excited about 2.30. Who knows? Weather could be right. my body and taper could be perfect and I could tow the line feeling as best as I could and I could

just absolutely send it. But I play it safe when it comes to the marathon. It takes so much out of you and it takes a lot of work to get to that line. And knowing that I got to turn back around and to have like, what, three weeks off to before I get going for Boston again. So I'm just trying to weigh all those stuff. There's a lot going on. But I think if I can go sub 236 and PR, I'll be, I'll be pretty happy with that, given everything. That's one of the things I found about strength training is... Which I have done zero in the last two and a half years. So I'm getting that.

Please, preach. I think I can help you. Please. I have found that by maintaining a strong strength training program, especially in the off season, and then maintaining that as much as possible during in season, I have found that really helps mitigate risk of injury, especially overuse injuries because I've had these small injuries in the past before.

Right. And typically it comes from weak glutes or hips, and that will just work its way down. Yep, exactly. So before you know, you have quad, hamstring, knee, ankle, calf issues. And the way I learned this is I used to have knee issues while running. Oh, wow. and I would always try to treat the knee. So I'd be rolling out, I'd be icing the knee.

And I finally went to a PT. Yep. PT was like, well, yeah, you're feeling the effects at your knee, but the issue is stemming from the hips and the glutes. Yep. So I started reincorporating more barbell squats, wow. Lungees into my strength training program during the prep.

Wow. And it just reduced all those, those overuse injuries. So that's why I love in the offseason, really hitting strength hard, and then in season, maintaining strength. Oh, yeah. I feel like that is my lowest hanging fruit. Like, I'm not kidding. The most I've done is push-ups, maybe a few pull-ups here and there.

Like, I just run. And I just, whether there's laziness, whether it's just, I just love running. You know, I feel like so, I have to, I just don't have the patience to get into the weight room to do it all, but I also recognize that anyone who has any success at the marathon, almost everyone is in the weight room and everybody's putting in the work there. And I'm just like, I've only ever run. And that's what I know and that's what I'm comfortable with. I don't really know how to do proper techniques in the weight room. So I think it's a little bit as also probably insecurity. I don't know how to squat properly or I don't know how to do this. So potentially

I'm going to risk getting injured. I think that's what my mind tells me. So I'm just going to run, I'm just going to run, try to run fast and, you know, recover and do my thing. But this build has taught me a lot and realizing that that low-hanging fruit for me is strength and that if I could get that over winter heading into Boston, I think I could be a radically different runner come come April. Yeah, I think you'd find yourself going into the next race and a different, I don't say level of shape, but just like conditioned. Yeah. And I guess my biggest fear too is we were talking about this on our run is like, I'm just afraid of putting on weight, putting on like mass. Because I just like, I don't want to, like, you know, I sit around the 144, 144, 146.

That's where I'm at when I'm in, like, running shape. It's like, man, I thought about like putting on five pounds of muscle, even out at 150, it'd be pretty nice. I feel like, is that too much? Is that going to change my form? Is that going to give me an issue? I mean, I have no idea the science behind all that. But it's like, I like how I feel at this weight.

And I'm just terrified that I'm going to freaking bulk up and all, not going to be able to fit any of any of my clothes or. or whatever, which is such a silly thing to think about, but that's just that naivity that I have. I don't know anything about lifting weights or that world. So it's, I think I just, yeah, I fear, I guess, not knowing everything in that world, but I recognize that it would radically transform my running,

my form, not getting injured or lowering the risk of injury, which now, as I'm dealing with something, it's like, okay, now I recognize the potential of strength, which I need to jump on it. Yeah, we did talk about this turn the run where I believe a lot of people think that strength training are going to the gym is bodybuilding. Right. That is one style of strength training.

Yeah. That is the style that I enjoy training in. But like you can, you can train for power and strength and explosiveness without going into these super high rep ranges with moderate weight and building large amounts of muscle and putting on weight that might take away from your speed. Gotcha. It's just the style of training at which you apply that stimulus. Okay.

I'm curious, you know, we both have this 22-mile workout come up tomorrow. How do you physically and mentally prepare for a big run? I'd love to hear your approach because I approach these big workouts one way. Right. But do you carve up like you would race day? Do you treat it like race day? Do you get nervous to the workout? What's going through your mind three or four days out?

That's great. Yeah, I've, the previous two marathons, these longer workouts, I was actually thinking about that yesterday. I just, because I'm pretty nervous for tomorrow. But the previous two marathons, I had not been nervous for my long runs. I just kind of, it is what it is, go out and did it. But again, that was, there was way less going on in my life during those previous two. Wasn't a father yet. Work, traveling wasn't as much. And so I think it's just the accumulation of everything that's happened the last two months and how busy you have done. It is. Right. And so knowing that, I'm trying to manage. Right. And so knowing that I'm not in the shape I would like to be at this stage being 23 days out from CIM. I think I'm a little bit more nervous just because it's like, of all the long runs, I have, I mean, I have probably missed four or five just because of schedule or the last week. I had a, my hamstring was acting up on the last one and I had to pull out at 17 should have done around 21. And so it's just like a combination of that where it's just like it definitely gets in my head.

A lot of the PT stuff I've been doing this last week has really helped. My run today was great. My run workout yesterday was amazing or two days ago was amazing. So it's feeling much better, which I'm so stoked about. So I have a little bit more confidence heading in tomorrow. Yeah, I've got a great pasta dinner plan tonight and carb loading yesterday, staying hydrated. When I get this close to the marathon two, I cut out alcohol. Like when I'm a month out, I just kind of, maybe I'll have a glass of wine at Thanksgiving in a few weeks.

But aside from that, like, I kind of cut that out so that I'm like fully recovered. A lot of, you know, did a salt. bath last night. I got my compression sleeves I'll probably do tonight as well and get a good sleep. Maddie and I have a great deal that the night before long runs, I sleep out on the couch so that I'm not getting woken up by Oliver and she's absolute legend for letting me do that. That's great. She recognizes, you know, because Oliver's still not sleeping too great. So he's probably waking this up three to five times a night. And so especially like before big run, you know, those Friday night, she lets me kind of chill out there and she kind of takes it,

which is just amazing. And so with this being the last one, I'm actually, I'm really nervous, but I'm also very excited because it's going to, like I said earlier, it's like, this workout tomorrow will give me a lot of information on what my game plan is going to be heading into CIM. And I kind of need it. And I'm excited, but I'm kind of got that jitteriness. And thankfully, the weather's going to be great. It's going to be like high 40s, cloudy. Donald Franklin, it's on a Saturdays and not lot of cars are going to be out. I'm going to have the roads and the highways to myself. And no one pacing me, no one training me. So, like, if I can get through that and hit my pace by myself, I think that is going to be a massive mental boost for me going into CIM.

I feel like we chat about this before, but it's like I love training alone. I love hitting my splits alone so that when I get into a marathon race and I tow the line and everybody is running around the same pace, I can check out and know that, like, I don't need someone else to pace me. neat to hit my splits because I've been able to hit my splits by myself. And that's like one of my favorite things about running along. I know the benefit of running and doing workouts with a group is there, but I don't have that luxury, unfortunately. There's not people living down in Franklin that are training for the same marathons and it's not a big running community, at least yet. So it's, yeah, tomorrow's, I mean, you got me stacked up on the go gels. I lost a box.

I'll get you some more. This will be great. I'm going to be ripping through this. But yeah, man, in terms of preparation, yeah, I'll get to bed pretty early, probably around the like 839, get up at 5. I'll probably get out the door by 530, 540. Do you eat anything before this? I do not. You don't eat anything before a 22-mile-er. Bro, I let it rip, dude. Dude. I know. I have never, I mean, aside from Marathon Day, I will eat something. But long days, I don't. I literally just have my gels. I'll probably take a gel 30 minutes out. But I've got that, all that pasta, especially for my build, it's just I've never needed it. It's been, my long workouts have, I've been fine with just kind of rocking with my gels and

making that, making that happen. But I could change my mind, you know, especially with like Maddie getting into making sourdough also. It's like, man, so how long, how far out from the start of your run do you eat sourdough? An hour? Yeah, it's like tomorrow, see, I'm, I'm a big fan of just fueling, probably, because I'm, I'm a believer in, you can go hit a workout, you can feel. You can feel great. But if you hit that same workout fueled, you might feel even better. So the way I approach these big runs, like a 22 mile or tomorrow, I have the same mindset that you do. And I think being a little nervous, a little scared, that's a good thing. It means you care. Yeah, absolutely. And it means like it's about to be a little uncomfortable. Oh, yeah. So three, four days out,

I start increasing carbohydrates. But a large emphasis on water consumption. electrolyte intake. The day before, like today, definitely prioritizing carbs, water, staying off my feet. I'll do the compression boots tonight. And then get a good night's sleep. Tomorrow morning I'll wake up,

probably 60 to 90 minutes before the run starts. Okay. So that's what says at 4 a.m. then? Tomorrow I'll probably start the run at 6. You start at 6. So I'll wake up at 4.30. Gosh. Okay.

Drink some coffee. Go to the bathroom. and then eat. So I'll do two scoops of G-1M sport. Right. I'll do a piece of sourdough, toasted with some jelly and honey on there. 90 minutes out? Or 60 to 90 minutes out? You'll do that. Yep. Okay. And then that's going to be what I consume before the run starts. Gotcha. So by the time I start the run, I don't feel empty. I can definitely tell like I have food. Okay. But you don't cramp up. I don't cramp up. Okay. That's always my fear. But in the previous two marathons where I've done that, breakfast or a, you know, English muffin, almond butter, three hours out, 90 minutes out,

one of those Stinger waffles, gel at 30 minutes out from start. And I have felt pretty fine. Yeah. But I'm just, I'm just so nervous of just having, you know, GI issues. When I, it just normally don't do it. I only do that on race days. But that's why I like practicing. Maybe I should practice tomorrow. I may have to get on the same schedule, get up at 430 and then do that, you know. Yeah, I like doing that. So that when I get to race day, I know what I've tested. Right. And it works out. Yeah, I have better expectations of how my body's going to adjust. Right. And then I'll use gels during the run itself.

Every five miles? Yeah, tomorrow I'll probably do five, ten, I'm going to do like five, nine, fourteen, maybe eighteen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll probably try to get like four gels in tomorrow. Same. And just stay on top of that. But you don't do any GM running. No, I don't do any liquids.

No liquids. Even when I'm running the marathon, you don't. I don't grab any water. That's insane. There's no way. You don't take anything? No.

I take something every water station. I don't understand. Like, for me, I've tried, and none of the water goes in my mouth. Like, what's your technique? Oh, the technique is you've got to pinch the paper cup and sip it that way. You can't drink it completely open like a psychopath. I learned pretty quickly, and I was watching runners around me at New York, and they were all pinching the cup, sipping it out.

out and then toss and I was like, oh my gosh, that's how you do it. No, my coach, I'm the first one for New York. He's like, if you're not, even if you're not thirsty, grab water. Take a sip. Just keep moving. It's like better to not. I don't know the science mind, but he was just like, you don't want to be dehydrated on the back end. And I've just, I've stuck with it and it's worked out every, that blows my mind that you don't take any water. No. Wow. Especially when the water stations are congested. Oh, yeah, coming in. I'm just like dialed in. Right. And during these big runs, I don't consume any water.

Same, yeah. But that's the way I'll approach tomorrow. Okay, got you. It's like, from the time I wake up, it's, it feels like war. And will you be running in carbon-plated shoes? I'll do a shoe change, about an hour in. I don't do a shoe change. Gotcha.

So you'll go carbon all the way. Carbone whole way. Gotcha. Yeah, sweet. So I'm going to race in the sockony endorphin elites. You are nice. Usually it's always been the Nike vapor flies. Right, right.

But that's what I'm racing in. I love that shoe. Great. But for some reason, like, I just started using the elites for a few workouts and I fell in love with them. Wow. And now I'm like, I just like, I like, I like, I like, I like, it feels right. I've been hitting all these really good sessions in it.

Right. And, you know, running is, it's, uh, what, I forget how do you describe the word where it's, um, something works for you. You don't want to try something else. Right. Um, yeah, it's, I think, it's very personal. I mean, I'm, I'm the, I'm the same way. Like I have tried, ever since I ran my first marathon in the next percent of Vibor Flight 2s, I have been terrified to try anything else.

Superstitious. That's it. That's all thing. Superstitious. 100%. Runners are superstitious. Very much so. That's why I'm like, I don't even, I won't change anything on, like, I literally, how I eat this few days leading up to it.

Whatever worked on that first one, I did on the second one and it turned out great in my favor. So I'm going to literally copy and paste. Like, it is what I, it's all I know. I'm not going to test the waters, have tried something different. I've tried to get a new shoe. And sorry Adidas, but those Adi's pros give me blisters about five miles in. And I'd love to try the Sockney ones as well as the A6 ones. It looks pretty fun too.

But we're too close to the start line for me to switch, you know, to pull inaudible and change shoes. But man, okay, I might have to get up on that, get up at 430, have some sourdough. I'm going to give that a shot. I was fine. Like, if I can get. Because that's what I do on a marathon day. There's no reason I can't do it, you know. Yeah.

If I can get like 90 to 120 grams of carbs in, 60 to 90 minutes from starting a big run, I can always feel those carbs at use the second half that big workout. Really? I feel so much stronger. And it's, but can you not differentiate, okay, is that the gel that I'm taking, the gels that I've taken, the two or three that I've taken at that point? Or is that the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

fueled with the sourdough and how can you. A little, a little bit of, everything. Okay, it is. Because like the carbs that you've consumed the days leading up to that race, they're being stored as glycogen and the muscles in the liver. So your body from digestion to assimilation into glycogen takes about 24 to 36 hours. So that's why today's Friday, tomorrow, Saturday, Saturday is the big workout. That's why I try to get a big bulk of those carbs in the first half of the day on Friday. So that's my glycogen.

Which, by the way, I'm going to freaking. I'm going to eat my muffin right now. I got to crush this real quick. You got blueberry muffin? Yeah. Kramer? It is, yep. Yep.

I give Charlie a blueberry muffin every day from frothy muffin. I saw that. Prothy, dude. Yeah. Sorry for all the sounds on this, Jordan. Yeah, so I try to get most of my carbs in, first half of the day, the day before a big workout. Yep.

And then I like to have readily accessible carbohydrates in my body circulating in my blood to be used very easily, very accessible. My body can tap into those. And then as it's burning through those carbs, I can also tap into muscle glycogen during the workout. Yep. And you utilize that. And I will burn through, I'm a bigger guy too. So I will burn through a lot of fuel. right during a big workout so i'm a big fan and advocate of fueling properly because i've seen the

effects of when i haven't fueled properly yep and then when i have and it's very significant right what's good yeah no you're definitely taking me to church so i feel definitely feel the conviction and so fueling and strength training we're gonna get you i don't know what the hell i'm doing you're going to fall off the olympics dude i have no no reason to be ready marathons how how um how i'm not paid attention to fueling properly and I haven't even stepped foot in a gym. But if only I knew of somebody who had a gym on the first floor coming soon. I think that's a BNM Club. Oh, I might have to get a membership. Dude, friends and family. And you can tell me how to properly squat because I feel like I'm going to freaking break my back or something. We'll hook it up. We're going to have some great

training sessions. Hopefully I can do more than the bar. I think I can do my body weight. What I want to hear from you is the New York City Marathon Experience. You were there last weekend. I had, I don't often get FOMO. There it is. Dude,

I had FOMO, man. As you should. It looked so epic. Bandit looked like they put on an epic event. It's unbelievable. The energy of the city, I'm saying right now,

I'm running New York City Marathon next year. Let's go. I don't care about PRing or running sub three. I want to go and soak up that experience. It is, I just got chills.

You've been talking about that right now. It is, I was very fortunate it and I feel like I was spoiled that my first marathon experience was the New York City Marathon in 2021. Had the opportunity to run for a charity for a close friend, a charity water. It was exactly three months out from the start. My buddy shot me text like, hey, a spot opened up. Do you want to, I see you run in. Do you want to run New York City Marathon? Maddie and I haven't lived there before. I was like, I didn't even think about it. I even asked Maddie. I was like, yes,

sign me up. I'm in. I never even thought about running a marathon at that point in my life. running the New York City Marathon through all five boroughs was one of the most beautiful experiences and then being able for the first time ever last weekend spectating my first marathon

defaumo was unbelievable like I literally wanted to in my vintage denim run out there and finish that I mean the the energy was electric to be able to see 50,000 runners when I ran it I think it was right around 30,000 there was 20,000 more runners

that's insane because when I did it was the first year back after COVID and so 50K runners through all I mean there's a million plus spectators it I am so excited that you're going to run that next year it's um after I was there I'm like I was going to try to run Berlin I'm like do eff it forget Berlin dude I'm going I got to run New York it's been a few years obviously since I ran it so I'll be there with you I cannot wait it is um beautiful time in um to be in New York it's at the peak of fall a lot of New Yorkers as you'll find out as you're

talking to them and they have no running background they do not run at all the artists or whatever, they're in business, they're in finance, not athletic. Everyone in New York who lives there and is from there says their favorite day in the city is New York City Marathon Day. It's the most insane thing. The amount of support that comes out and everybody jams pack, everybody comes out and supports their borough, whether it's Queens, whether it's the Bronx, whether it's Brooklyn, whether it's Manhattan, whether Staten Island. I mean, Staten Island gets, I feel like to shorten to the stick because you start there and then you go over the Arizona bridge right into Brooklyn. So there's not a lot of viewership in Staten Island, unfortunately.

It's, um, and oh, dude, it's so challenging. It's such a hard course too because like you've got about a mile plus uphill on the Queensboro Bridge at mile 15 and then it's silent. It's the only, it's the quietest part of the whole race. You're running through Brooklyn and then through Queens and then you, it's, I mean, everybody's erupting and then you get to the Queensboro Bridge and it's, it's completely silent. It's just you and the footsteps for about a mile and a half.

And then you come off down, you wrap around, you go up first half in Manhattan. And then that was the only time of my life, which I'm excited for you. Remember this. Put this away. And a year from now, when you run New York City, you'll know when you come off the Queensboro Bridge and you come on to first half, there's this turn that you do. And I was in a weird part of the race where I was all alone. And I made that turn. And as far as I could see through the crowds, I couldn't see an end of people.

And they just erupted as I turned around the corner. And I put my hands on my head. I was like, I felt like I was a pro athlete at that moment. It was just me and everybody is cheering. It was... It's incredible. It is one of those marathons. I feel like Boston could be similar, but that was much more iconic.

It's been around 120 years or something. But New York, nobody shows out like New York. It's unreal. All the, whether it was with Bandit or other running clubs, the events that go on, the days leading up to it, it's just, yeah, man, you got to run it. It's going to be a good one. I mean, like, logistically, I can't even wrap my head around. how you shut down New York City to put on a race for 50,000 people. Not even including the spectators and the vendors that come out.

I can only imagine or expect the disruption that happens to traffic and businesses and all these things, but also brings in... It does. But everybody just accepts it. They know, like, oh, it's a New York Marathon weekend. Okay, so we're not going to drive. We're going to walk. Let's take... You know, they plan their whole day around it, whether they go up to Central Park and be near,

be near the finish or whether they want to be in their borough in Brooklyn or Queens or the Bronx, and they just, it's an all-day affair. It's so insane. It's like, at least in my experience, how I've seen it, like, nobody's frustrated by the disruption of their Sunday schedule. That's great. People literally come and partake. And all the signs that you're going to see, like, there's one that I saw was like, don't poop. Or there's another one that was like, it was just run, period. I mean, there's people. are just so creative. The kids come out. It is just a very festive, infectious, inspiring race to run. Because whether in CIM or previous marathons I've done, it's just like, okay, I got this goal. I'm trying to do this.

But like that crowd support is unbelievable. And something, unfortunately, it be my first, nothing will top that. I don't think there'll be another marathon that will rival what New York brings. That's like my first ultra marathon was. Which one was that led to? I mean, yeah, you started to, I mean, yeah, You start at the freaking top. Yeah. So, like, how do you? Yeah, I'm running 100 miles to the Rocky Mountains, 10,000 meter elevation. Right.

I'm like, I'm filling up my water bottles in these natural springs. Stop. The best water I've ever had in my life. Oh, my gosh. I'm falling down mountains. You're seeing these massive trees in just, like, beautiful landscapes. So that experience was where I set the standard for ultramarathons. Wow.

And then my second one was Rocky Raccoon. which is five, 20-mile loops in Huntsville, Texas, out by Houston. No way, dude. Completely different. Yep. Completely different. So I always say I don't think I ever want to go run Leadville again because of how perfect that memory is in my mind.

What about that big one in France? Montblanc. UTMB. Yeah, UTMB. I mean, that looks beautiful. Isn't it like 119? Like 119? It's like over 100.

It's not 100, right? I'm not exactly sure how long, but from the landscapes I've seen of that one, beautiful. You don't think you'll ever do another 100 mile or else? I'll definitely do another 100. Okay. But I want to do one that has some scenery. Yeah. You know, and like some adventure to it.

Yeah. You can, I mean, I think people run races for different reasons. Of course. It doesn't matter what the distance is. For me, running an ultra, I either. want to unlock something new in my mind, my perspective, gain a new, just opening for myself. And it's an experience where I can do that. Or I want to be submerged with community and the environment and the course. So that's like kind of the way I look at ultras.

Marathon for me is, it's very different. very yeah it's a extremely challenging tough humbling distance because it's just short enough that you can go really fast but it can also break you off long enough to where a lot of bad things could happen exactly yeah yeah why do you love the marathon hmm that's a great question yeah i would definitely echo that it's having a running background and then taking time off. This is still stuck in my head. That might, you know, my high school coach told me, which I did not want to hear it when he told me.

He's like, you are a half marathon. You are a marathon guy. You're build the way that you run, the way you train. How you're like you're not a 5K, 10K, miler, unfortunately, which at the time, that's all I wanted to do, right? The shorter, faster, middle distance races. I was like, you may not do it

for a while. You may never do it, but you've got that marathon build. And so I had just always been in my head for, for, since he told that to me when I was, you know, a teenager. And then, you know, when the opportunity came around, I was like, man, like I'm, and I finally got in shape and I fell in love with it. I mean, after I finished New York, it was just a whole new category of feelings. I'm a very, uh, emotional, where my heart on my sleeve type individual. I think that affects my art. That affects the way I, I, I photograph. That affects the way that I run and I process things. And running has become, especially at that distance and training during a marathon block,

you know, hours and hours and hours that you're putting in of training. And that's a lot of time for me with myself to be able to think through life situations, to problem solve, to dream, to see where I'm at, to listen to my breathing, to not think about anything at all, to study the light that I'm running in. I think what's great about the marathon distance is it just, I think I said this before. I don't know where I've said it before, but I think of my documentary, but like being a photographer and running the marathon,

like I feel like I have an advantage to just like check out and not think about the running aspect of it or the racing part of it. That's just going to come from all the preparation that I've done. But I get to kind of like study the light, study the emotion of the spectators as I would photographically, being out on the streets and taking photos. And so that's been a really, special tool that I was not expecting to be there that I think allows me to just like

check out for a little bit and in a really rough patch and to just like go somewhere different as an artist and that's been a really fun thing but I just I don't know man like I'm not really competing I think what's great especially at my age like I'm 34 I've probably got another five years five to six year window of being as fast as I possibly can. And so I take this window very seriously. Although I know people do run faster. I just found out from my PT.

The guy that goes to my PT place, he's 53 and just ran at 236. So, which is insane. What's his name? I don't know. I didn't get his name. He told me, I was like, dude, what? You ran out 256? Or excuse me, 236 as a 53-year-old?

That's just... That's like Ken Rydown. Ken Rydown is like 52. Maybe it was him. I have no idea. Is he live in Nashville? He does. Oh, that's probably who it was then.

That's unbelievable. He ran sub 2.30 at, I want to say, Chicago. Recently. This past Chicago. Oh, my gosh. Dude's an animal. That's a dream. If I can get to that, it'd still be fast out.

But I just, who knows, you know, life has a way of playing things out. But I just, I'm, I'm, I'm, if you feel properly and start strength training. Dude, chill. Chill, bro. You might be throwing down some numbers. Who knows, maybe, maybe. I hope so. But yeah, I just kind of looking at it, you know, very realistic, a mindset.

It's like, man, the rest of my 30. You know, because I feel like marathoners do peak in their 30s. I feel like that's their prime time 33, 34, 35. Yeah, typically. You know, it's usually, I'm in less year that 23-year-old that just broke the world record. Shout out, what was it, Kelvin in Chicago? No, man, I'm just, I remember what your original question was. Oh, why do I love the marathon?

I just, it's so challenging. It's so hard. And I, maybe I run ultras down the road. I'm intrigued by triathlons. I think that could be, once I run all six. were old majors. I think that could be a natural next step. I grew up in the water. I grew up a lifeguard, so I'm very comfortable there. I know how to ride, but I've never done it for fitness reasons. So I've been, yeah, just thinking about triathlons a lot lately, as I'd like to kind of

try my hand with that. But right now, like the marathon is, it just gives me everything I want. It gives me enough challenge, even this block. Like I'm trying to navigate the newness of becoming a father of work picking up and traveling picking up. And I've never had to juggle those things in my previous two builds. And so now that's here, it's like, okay, this is different. Don't like this. What can I do for the next one? What can I learn? Obviously, like, family comes first for me. This has become second and work. And then it's marathon prep and builds. So I'm, I've just been learning, man, trying to not beat myself up. You know, I'm very hard on myself because, like, I don't, I'm not competing against others. I'm competing against myself and I'm competing

against the clock. I don't have a lot of time to be fast. Again, I hope I'm wrong that I can run, you know, competitively like this. longer than four or five years, but just trying to be realistic and, you know, take advantage of these, these prime years that I have right now and to race as much as I can, but to be smart, to recover well. But also not to forget to enjoy it. Because like, these previous two marathons, man, I have had so much fun, so much fun. Like, yes, I had PR'd, you know, I've done well in the previous two ones, but I'm like, above all, I have just enjoyed how hard it is. I've enjoyed the pain. I've enjoyed the, I've enjoyed the,

discomfort the week following a marathon and I can't put on my shoes and I can't walk down stairs. I mean, we're psychopaths. We love to be in that pain cave. We love the discomfort. I love just being thrown in, and this is even for my photography life, I love being thrown in uncomfortable positions and conditions. And I think the marathon is that. Like tomorrow, dude, I do not want to do this workout, but I do. And I'm going to do it. And I'm excited for how bad it's going to hurt and how much it's going to suck and how miserable it's going to be. But I'm also, it takes me to a place mentally that is so, so pure and so beautiful because of the work that I've done or even the lack thereof and some of the workouts I've missed,

it's just, I'm in a spot now where I'm like, you know what, whatever happens for this, this CIM race is going to happen. And, but I'm going to, what I'm excited about is given everything that I've gone through this build, I'm going to absolutely give it my best. going to empty the tank. And if that's a PR, awesome. If it's not, I'll be bummed, but it'll motivate me for Boston even more. No, I love that. I personally love the marathon. Yeah. It's my favorite thing to train for. It's the perfect distance. I think it is the perfect distance. And I've been having this conversation with Steph recently. I think... Is she going to run?

No, no, no, no, she's not going to run. But we've been talking about how everyone needs to find that one thing that sets their soul on fire. And I'm not saying an entire marathon prep can or should set your soul on fire. But once taper week hits and you tow the line for that race, that is an internal feeling that it's a flame that you can feel take over your entire body. And that flame lasts the duration of that whole race until you cross that finished line and you put everything out there and the results are objective. That clock is a measure of how well you performed, how well you prepared, how disciplined and committed you were to the process. Right. That's like

what I love about race day is it's an opportunity for the people who fall in love with it to light your soul on fire again. But I also think to love the marathon, that is something you have to earn. Yeah. Because just going to run your first marriage, marathon. If anyone's thinking about running their first marathon or has run one marathon before, but hasn't fully prepared, they might be hearing this thing. You're full of shit. Right. Like there's no way. Yeah. And what I mean by you have to earn that love is when you put in the work and you're fully prepared and you go through a build and it's been a successful build and you get to the point where we're at right now, you're at peak, volume has accumulated, you're holding so

much fatigue, you're about to go into a taper, shed that fatigue, and then show out feeling so fresh with almost a new set of legs. Yes, exactly. And then you get to go light your soul on fire and run the race of your dreams. That is earned love. Yeah. And like you said, it is a great distance where you can go really fast for a long period of time, but it's long enough to break you off. And if you don't respect the distance in the race, it will humble you very quickly. Have you hit a wall in a marathon yet? Oh, yeah. Which it was like, the last one you did, I think maybe, you stopped and took a gel or salt towel.

I cramped up fully at mile 21. And was in Buffalo? It was in Buffalo. Okay. Yeah, like my first couple of marathons I didn't prepare for well. That's why I ran over four hours. Hit the wall at mile 16. and then it was a run and walk the rest of the way.

And so it was preparation. It wasn't nutrition during the race. Correct. You had fuel. You had all that ready to go. That was all lack of preparation. Gotcha. Okay.

I didn't follow an actual training program. Gotcha. And I was like 230 pounds. It was a bodybuilder then. Tang. Yeah. But in Buffalo, I cramped around mile 21. And I could feel it ceasing.

Yeah. You know, I could feel it pulsing the miles leading up too. Brutal. But what I also love and I hate about the marathon distance, when race day, there's so many high. and lows. Yep. Over the course of that 26.2 miles.

Right. Mile 10, you might be like, holy crap, I went out way too hot. This first couple of miles, I'm feeling this. Yeah. Mile 14, four miles later, you're like cruising. Yep. Feeling great. Mile 18.

Low again. Mile 21. High. 23, low. And like, you're just trying to get to the finish line. Right. And holding a pace that's going to allow you to either PR, or hit your goal.

Exactly. But that window is so tight. It is. Like when I cramped in Buffalo, I knew I had 90 seconds to play with. Because you're just being ahead of pace or what you were trying to roll. But like, gotcha. I had to stop because of full body cramps. Wow.

I was going for sub 250. Yep. And I knew if I lost 90 seconds by those cramps, there's no way I was going to run sub 250. Wow. So that window of error is so small when you're going to. for a competitive PR for yourself. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah, I'm definitely, yeah, definitely nervous for this race. As I've had no issues the previous two. Like, I have, maybe just because of, I had really two really good builds on those two marathons, but like, aside from like mile 24 at New York, my hamstring cramped up a little bit in Central Park. And I grabbed Gatorade really quickly. I was right by 8 station and it went away pretty quickly.

and CIM was like a breeze, man. Like, I felt nothing. Like, it was weird. Like, I mean, low 150 heart rate, which got me sick. I feel like that was the best shape I've ever been in my life was when I towed the line for CIM.

I feel I was probably in better shape than than I am now, but I still feel I've learned a lot. You know, I've, it's been a long year, but I'm just, there's two marathons. I just have not hit anything.

But I know that the marathon distance does not give a flying rip. How prepped you are, how not prepped you are, how you eat that week, what your story is, it cares. It is completely unbiased. So I know that it is inevitable that I will hit a wall eventually. Is it going to be this marathon? We'll be Boston. We'll be New York next year. So it's like a weird headspace I'm in because I know, again, those first two ones were relatively easy for me to get through. And I know that everybody hits that wall at some point, whether there's GI issues, whether it's whatever. I'm like,

oh my gosh, is this going to be the one? And what's going to happen mentally when it does come? Because it is inevitable. I could get lucky and it may not be this one, but I'm just kind of preparing for it to just be an absolute battle. I think it's going to be a war, this one for me personally. And I'm ready for it. I'm actually ready for the challenge. I'm ready that I'm not in the best shape that I would like to be in. It gives me a lot of opportunity to just test myself, to prove to myself that given the discomfort, the discomfort, of an unideal build. I'm excited to push the envelope a little bit

and push the boundaries and see what, because I think a benefit that I do have is just like the mental reps of just being a runner for a long time. Like I know what it's like to be in painful situations and running, and I'm hoping that history of me being a runner will come back and the pain gave that CIM will be because I know it's going to happen. I just, I can feel it and I can feel it. Yeah, man, I'm going to embrace it all. I can't wait.

I do want to talk about the wall. I think there's something to talk about there. I agree. I'm going to say something. But before I say something, I want to hand over these beats, do you? I want you to try these beats. This episode is by no means sponsored by the beats. They should be, though, dude.

They should be sponsored by these beats. I've been so excited, man. I've been talking these up to you for a long time now. Yes, you have. And so, you know, Steph and I get these at the farmer's market at 12 South every Tuesday. But you cleared him out. Dude, so last week was the last farmer's market at 12 South until the spring. Oh my gosh, dude.

So they're called Braden in Jones Farms. And I went to their booth. I was like, guys, I know this is the last farmer's market of the season here. Please tell me you have some beats here. Because sometimes they don't, because it's a very labor-intensive process to make. Right. He had an entire case, 12 jars for me. So I bought all 12 jars.

my gosh. I don't know what it is about these beets, but they're just so good. The ingredients are beets, onions, cider vinegar, water, cinnamon, mustard seed, all spice, and salt. Oh, I can already eat my mouth. I'm going to hand these over to you to try. Does Steph like these? Steph loves them. Okay. Oh my gosh. Here we go. So if you're listening to this episode, you're not watching, I just handed Joe the beats. Not sponsored by these pieces, even though they should be. All right, here we go. And I will tell you, like even Jeff, my running coach. Did you send him some? I haven't, but he's like, you know, we're not, he's like, we're not doing anything different in this marathon prep really compared to previous marathon preps.

Right. He's like, what, are you doing anything different? So, the beats. Jeff, meat and half a jar, beats a day. Dude, okay, okay, I might have to, hold on, here we go. First taste test. Oh, wow. They're unique.

It's the mustard seed, the all spice, and the cinnamon that really pulls out some flavor. Wow. The mustard seed, that's phenomenal. That jar is for you. I don't know what. Oh, you've got to get, got to get in here too. I've had half a jar. Today already?

Okay. Hopefully this will help my 22 mile tomorrow. Oh my goodness. So my lunch that I have every day is ground beef, rice. Stop. Primal Kitchen's buffalo sauce, coconut aminos, Greek yogurt, and then a bunch of beets. They're so good.

Dude, this are so freaking good. I may have to eat these all and not bring them home to Maddie. Sometimes, why are you going to be upset about that? Sometimes at night before we go to bed. Yeah. I'll be laying in bed, getting ready to fall asleep. and it pops in my head. I'm like, I should eat some more beats. So I go into the kitchen, I grab some beats. Before you go to bed. And I get back in bed and stuff's like, I can smell

that on you. Go brush your teeth. Oh my goodness. Dude, that is so good. So they're not going to be back until April. Well, I think you can go to other farmer's markets. They told me I could send them an email and I can go pick some up at the farm. Oh my gosh. You got to let me know because I'm going to have to go do that. That is so freaking good. Allspice. Wow. Wow. Yep. Definitely worth the hype. Told you. Definitely worth the hype. Dude, this should be the new sponsor next year for your podcast.

I know. I know. Pickle be peat. Pickle beet flavor gel, dude. I'd be all about that. No, that would be. That'd be the collaboration of the century. That would be it.

That's the one. Brat and bear. Brat and bear. Oh, I love that. So this wall. Mm-hmm. I love the concept of the wall. Yeah.

Mm. Because when you hit this wall in either a big workout or a race, Yeah. Sometimes people think that the wall is physical when it's mental and then sometimes vice versa. It's hard to distinguish between the two. Do you think that you hit a physical or a mental wall more often? That's a great question. In the race.

Hmm. I would say from looking back on my previous two, it definitely would be mental over physical. but this coming CIM has the ingredients for it to be both because of how the build has gone the physical has potential to do some damage that the mileage may not be there for the goal that I'm trying to do but I'm also going to I'm going to go for it and I'm going to try my best and see what happens

and then if that if I do start feeling stuff in the hamstring then obviously the mental starts creep in and then it starts to take over oh my gosh it's only mile 16 I got 10 more miles I'm feeling it pinch up I'm feeling it tighten up can I stop do I have time to stop how much time do I have what like oh I'm not near an aid station oh my gosh or what if I'm not near if I have to go to bathroom which hasn't happened in a race and hopefully it doesn't but I think the mental oh my gosh the mental wall I think is sometimes even more dangerous than the physical yeah people cramp up. You can take salt tablets. You can stop. You can go to aid stations and get helped out. I mean, you stopped for 90 seconds or less, took some stuff and then you were able

to get in and continue and went sub 250, right? But I think if that mental wall, man, it's, my coach always telling me growing up. And I, again, as a young kid, I was like, dude, there's no way. He's like, Joe, running's 80% mental, 20% physical. I was like, dude, you're crazy. You're not out here running this. This is hard. But then as I've matured and gotten older, it is 100% more, whether it's 80 or 90, whatever, it's a high number of it being predominantly mental and then the lesser being physical. Obviously, you got to put in work. You got to lock miles. You got to do strength training, which I will do next block. You got to eat right. You got to do all those things. But I feel like the mental toll that it takes, especially on race day, when you feel something

that you haven't felt during a build or you feel something that wasn't there during the taper or even my first Marathon. Again, knew nothing about Marathon, knew nothing about Taper. What the hell's a taper? I'm learning as I'm going. Apparently, these ghost injuries that pop up, these Taper ghost phantom injuries that come up during Taper. Have you had any of those? Every time. Dude, that first one, I mean, perfect build. I was the best shape of my life heading into New York, start tapering down, and then all of a sudden, I had an ankle issue. And I was like, oh my God, dude, all this work I put in, I'm running for charity. I have to drop out. Dude, and I, coach was like, Joe. relax. This is the thing called phantom injuries, tapering. It's real. It's so real. And I'm like,

for two weeks, I had issues with this ankle every day. And I'm like trying to, I'm rolling out. I'm doing new stretches. I'm in New York City the night before. I'm still feeling it. I wake up the day of the marathon, gone. Yeah. I get there. Dude, gone. And I, and that is just, and again, for people who run often, they may be familiar with that. But for me, that was such a new concept. I was like, there's no what, like, how is it possible that I'm feeling this? Like, And so that's a mental barrier that now I know. I'm like, okay, that's just, there's probably nothing wrong. Let's get to, you know, let's just wake up, get a good night's sleep.

And that's been the case for the previous two ones. But that mental barrier of the wall, I think is more intimidating to me than the physical. Obviously, if something happens, if I, you know, like Emma Bates, professional runner for A6, she stepped in a pot. I just got to meet here for the first time this past weekend. She runs for A6. She's stepped in a pothole. I mean, she's a 220, low 220s marathoner. I mean, I think 222.

is what she was going for. But she stepped in a pothole and, like, fracture her foot at, like, 15. Like 15. And she finished the race and ran in 224. Oh, wow. Fact check me on the time, but it's right around there. But she was able, and she's in a boot now. And, I mean, she is in a big recovering process.

But the fact that, like, something like that can happen and you go through a massive injury and then you run 11 more miles, like, if something happens to me and my hamstring starts to hurt, I'm going to be thinking about M. I was like, dude, do not be a wist right now and finish this damn race. And so there's things like that, like in the physical where people can have a crazy accident in a race and still be able to gut it out. And so I'm excited to like, I haven't experienced that yet in a marathon. And I know it's coming eventually. But like to have a pure guts race, I'm ready for it.

I hope it doesn't come. But if it does, I welcome it with open arms. But I think for me, it's like I'd much rather have a physical wall than a mental wall. Because I think the mental wall, man, it's, it's tough. that's why I think a real solid prep and build is so necessary because everyone thinks that going through like a real training program a properly structured training program for a race just sets you up for success physically but I would argue that it helps you to navigate the experience of this mental wall during a race.

Yeah. Like this, this big run and workout we're doing tomorrow, this structured 22-mile. Our runs look a little different. Yep. But we're both going to be approaching the same way. Yep.

The mental adaptations and simulists that we get from these big workouts, the stress, the anxiety, it builds confidence. It does. See, that's exactly it. Like if my run goes well tomorrow,

given everything that's happened the last six weeks, my mental game is, going to completely change. If it goes well and I hit my times and I don't have to, whatever, my hamstring doesn't give me issues. I'm going to be heading into this taper way more confident. Like, okay, maybe closer to 230, sub 230 is possible. If it's not, if I'm, if it's just the fitness is in there, even though I feel like it is, but if I'm not able to hit it, how I hope to hit it and hit the splits I need to hit, then it's like, okay, let's pull back. Let's let's readjust the goal. But like tomorrow, that's a good point because I feel like so much information. I'm going to learn so

much tomorrow. Yep. Around 8.30, 9 a.m. when I'm wrapping up, it's going to be like, okay, now I know the plan for Siam. It's going to either go this way, it's going to go this way. And so it's crazy how these long workouts gives you so much fuel mentally, I'm heading in, especially at the tail end, heading into the tape per week. And I feel like I haven't had a lot of those opportunities. And so this is my last one, and I'm really excited for it. Yeah, I had my big 21 mile or two weeks ago.

Right. And you know when you finish the big marathon paste? segments and you just have cool downs left. Oh, it's the best. It's the freaking best. I had this, like, I'm 20 miles in. I had this, I finished the, the workout. All I had was a cool down. And this just burst of energy goes through me because I hit my paces. Yep. Oh yeah. And I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just, cooling down at like six 40s. Yeah. Because you're just cruising. You're still jacked. Yeah. I'm so that's like, you know, the cool down after you're holding six minute miles, it's always still fast. That's crazy

said, because I literally did that two days ago, having a smaller workout. I was like 13 miles, but I did the same thing. I was so excited when I was able to get through it. Like, where do you think that comes from? Just from being able to just hit the splits, hit the workouts, knowing that you're near the end and things are looking right? Yeah, I think it's just, it's a confidence booster of while I'm on pace, this was very intimidating before starting it this morning. And I just did it, which is putting me one step closer to accomplishing my goal. That's why I've been talking a lot recently about setting the conditions. These big workouts, you know, whether it's your speed workout in middle of the week or your big workout in the weekend in preparation for a marathon, those aren't just helping you physically get faster.

Right. But they're reinforcing this mental and emotional confidence going on the race day. So we should be setting the conditions to succeed in these workouts because. Yes, physically we're getting better, but mentally it's making it stronger too. So true. So like sleep, recovery, staying off your feet, eating the right foods, carving up, hydration, water consumption, mindset, like all those things set the conditions. You sleep you on the couch.

Yeah. Like that is setting the conditions so that you can succeed to build the mental and physical confidence going to do that workout and then getting closer to race day. Absolutely. And it's kind of like filling that mental tank, which I feel like I have never thought about it in that way heading into, I'm thinking about the physical tank, right? I'm trying to fuel, trying to top off all those levels to make sure I'm carbon right. I'm staying hydrated. But it's like, you got to fill that mental tank too. Because that, I mean, when you're out there and it's just you, yeah, there's people running around you.

Yeah, you may have people cheering you. But like making sure that that mental tank is full heading into the race, I think is such something I'm going to be thinking about this next 23 days. how can I get that that tank as close to full as possible mentally, knowing the preparation or lack thereof or whatever it is. Yeah, that's good. I'm going to be thinking about that. Sometimes people in a big race, they're on pace for the time they want, but they mentally give up on themselves.

And he talked to them afterwards, what happened? It got hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's supposed to be hard. That's why we sign up for it. Yeah, exactly. That's why we prepare for it. Yep.

You're not going on and, you know, I text my coach, Jeff after some of these big workouts. Yep. Yeah, I'll crush a Wednesday morning workout. And he'll be like, how was it? I'm like, yeah, I hit all my times. It was hard. I'm not going to lie. He said, it's supposed to be.

Yep. That's good. Yeah, you're right. Yep. Yeah, I'm supposed to be putting out this big, big effort. Right. It shouldn't be smooth all the time. 100%.

Yeah. So do you feel, be honest. Are you going to break 245? I think I might break 240. I think I'm going to crush it, dude. I think you will break 240. I'm feeling... If conditions are right, weather's right, it's not humid, which it shouldn't be, I do, I think...

I'm feeling strong. Okay, because that's what I was curious is. Are you just like, oh, I'm just going to go out at 244 pace, whatever that is? Or are you going to like, you know what? These last two months, these workouts have been stacking, these times are dropping. Your splits are getting faster. Surely that's like, have you talked with Jeff? Like, hey, I think I need to, like, yeah, the goal is.

Except 2.45, but I'm at like 239, 238 pace. Like, is that what you're thinking? Are you making changes? I'm going to play it safe. Okay. And would you have like a half time? Like as long as I can roll through the half at 118, 119. If I'm, if I'm on pace and feeling really good at half, I'll try to start negative splits. Okay. But what I don't want to do is go out too hot in the beginning. Absolutely not. And then burn it up. Yep. Where I'm just trying to hold on at the end. Gotcha. That's the worst. Oh, 100%. It's the worst. Yep. So I'm going to go out pretty good. conservatively in the beginning. I think you're smart. And then see how it feels. Yeah, see how it feels in that second half. Yep. But this has been my most successful prep today. It's the best I feel.

It's the freshest I feel. And I think a lot of it's just the compounding consistency of miles being logged, what I'm learning about myself and running. How much of it you think is, to the, how much do you attribute the success of this build to the radical change in your life of moving to a new state, moving to a new city, moving your business, getting a new place, you know, Charlie getting older. I mean, like, do you, have you, because you've been here, what, three, three months, three months, a marathon build, right? So like, do you see that as a benefit to the build? Um, having a new route, having hills for the first time and whatever, however long you've been training and running, I've been curious about that, like, how much of

that's playing a role in the success of, of this build. I think it's huge. Yeah. Because right now I'm very creatively inspired. I knew that a physical change of scenery, yeah. Of scenery or just change in general would facilitate growth in my personal and professional life. That's great.

So hitting new routes, spending more time on hills, for example, running in Tennessee, in the fall, where the leaves are changing. Weather's nice. It's cool.

Weather's nice. You're just like, I can't believe I'm running in this canopy of trees where there's yellows and reds and browns and greens and all these different colors. Exactly.

Stunning. Yep. And then this is the first fitness prep that I've ever done where I've been all in and not all consumed. Right. And we talked about this.

Where historically when I go into one of these fitness preps, I'm all consumed by the training and the diet, every aspect of it. Yeah. And what I found is when you're all consumed,

And you're worried about all these different variables. It's just an added layer of stress on the already additional stress of training. Yeah. So I think being all in versus all consumed, new scenery, focusing on my family. That's good. Enjoying the process, actually enjoying the process. Yeah. And then being out of the day to day of the business and focusing more on creative brand amplification.

Yeah. which is my creative genius. It's what I love. I have, again, set the conditions, not even necessarily intentionally. Right, yeah. But the conditions are, yeah, organically, the conditions are set

to allow me to succeed at the goal that I set. Yeah. So everything feels right. That's awesome. That's incredible. Dude, I'm amped. I'm actually stuck now for tomorrow. What have you found that running is done

for your creativity. When you started running more, did it have an impact? Did it change your photography? The lens in which you view making a photo? Yeah. Yeah, it's, man, it is absolutely, categorically just changed my life

and changed my business, how I work, how I think, how I view the world through that lens, right? It's, as I alluded to earlier, like running, you know, being very extroverted. I'm around a lot of people often for work and just I enjoy, you know, being social. Running is my place to be an introvert. It is a place to myself to work through situations, to problem solve, to work through creative things, to dream about what I want to accomplish creatively or photographically.

So running has become, for me, an incredible. incredibly sacred space, especially now becoming a father. And as soon as I get home, it's like, all right, Maddie and I work from home. So it's just like dad mode, right? But that hour and a half, sometimes two hours, sometimes less in the morning before they wake up is my time to work, to pray, to work through situations, to think, to pray, to recognize beautiful light, especially right now. This early winter, late fall, light, it just hits differently. The sun's in a different place because you just had daylight savings time. And you've got that mist happening and all the fall colors.

Man, it is just so inspiring to me this time of year to run. It's one of my favorite times to run. And then spring is a close second. But there are times too where I'm like, I have a very photographic lens on when I run. And I'm like looking at things. I'm noticing certain situations and moments like, I'd make a photo if I was, you know, have my camera on me, which I don't run with a camera.

I've tried it. And it was, I was very close to rolling my ankle. And I was like, this isn't worth it. You know, I can't constantly stop and take a photo. And it just didn't work for me. So it's an opportunity that I look at to be able to sharpen my eye and to sharpen my lens. To view life through a frame, which I do always.

But to be able to not take the photo is so tough. I mean, there's been one time specifically, I'll never forget this. I was in Radnor Lake. It was when I was first started running 2020, again, running again, 2021. I'm running around Radner Lake and I'm actually finishing, so I'm running back to my car. And I'm coming down this hill. There's no one else around me.

And walking towards me up this hill was a group in the middle of the forest. Around this, I mean, I'll tell you, there was a group of about eight nuns, like my age, young, just all walk. And I'm like looking around like, what? This is one of the most bizarre, beautiful scenes I've ever seen. Like in the middle of this forest. And I'm like, and I didn't have my iPhone.

I didn't have my camera on me. And I had to just sit there in this incredibly special moment. And they were like laughing and having a conversation. And they were so invested in what they were doing. And it was torturous to be able to not make a photograph of that environment, which naturally, if I had seen that at a normal photographic setting, I would have made that photo instantly or maybe made multiple or maybe introduce myself. And because it was just so perfect.

The light was incredible. The movement was right. The emotion was there. and I just had to absorb it and take it in and to watch it and to study it. Like, oh, what, like, would I have been able to do it technically? Was there enough light for how I shoot film? And so running has given me that so much where I've see a scene or I see a moment. I'm like, okay, would this make a good photograph?

How would I do it? What I get closer? Would I pull back a little bit? What I, am I shooting towards, am I shooting backlit? Or like, it's just, it's been so good to be able to just use running as an opportunity to sharpen my eye and to, um, and to, um, am I shooting backlit? continue to grow and learn. I don't, I'm not, I'm the type of photographer, right? I don't just, I don't have an off switch. I don't like, I'm constantly thinking about photographs. I'm constantly

thinking about, as I alluded in the last one, just how to make a photograph that seems a test of time. And that is no different when I lace up my shoes and I go run for 70 minutes or for two and half hours. It's, uh, so what it does for me creatively is, is unbelievable. Um, it's a, I think a big thing too is it is a place where I dream. I think that is, especially now with being a father and having it all over here, it's, it's just changed the way that I think about work. It's changed the way how much I work, how much I want to do for him to give him a life that myself and Maddie did not have.

And so running is a place for me to work through these situations. Jet was just talking to before we got in here. It's like, okay, it's time for me to get back on the horse and bring my YouTube back. You know, I'm sitting on this dormant YouTube channel that's got over 100K subscribers. that I post one video year just because I don't like editing. I don't really know how to edit. I'm not good at it. But now I've got a dude in Franklin who's going to be able to help me out. And it's like, okay, that's something I've been thinking about a lot in the last two months. It's like, man, how am I going to get my YouTube up and running? But like, how do I do it in a way that's fresh and unique and something that I will be proud looking back on that

Oliver will be able to enjoy when he's older, that Maddie will be able to look back with great memories? How can I build a library of films for my family? And so it's been really cool to just work through these things. I'm prepping my next book, which is going to be for my time in India. So I'm just constantly working through situations there. I'm thinking about, I mean, it's time for me, it's a place for even me to work through marriage issues. Many are good now. If there ever issues, it's a time for me to just problem solve, man.

And I don't know if you're the same way. do you just like shut off? Do you think about work and creativity and family life or dreams or you just like locked into the workout, which are times where I am and I had like tomorrow. I'm not going to be thinking about the photo I'm taking. I'm like, okay, I've got to give you this damn workout or Sam's going to look really different. So there are times where that switch comes off and I, you know, I'm focusing on hitting my splits, fueling right, making sure I'm, you know, if I stopped to do a shoe change, it's not too long, which tomorrow will be. But like, I'm curious about that for you. Do you, is it easy for you to check out and to kind of go somewhere else to kind of get you through those runs,

or you allow your mind to just wander, or you kind of like locked in. Yeah. I think when you said, it's your sacred time, that really resided with me. Yeah. I know we ran together last week. Yeah. That was a good one. On Tuesday, but I typically don't run with people. Same. I enjoy running by myself. Yep. And usually when people reach out to me asking to run together, I always turn it down. Because that is my... Well, I feel honored. I feel honored.

I wanted it for the video, too. Nice, dude. But I enjoyed our run, for sure. Classic. I enjoy the run. I enjoy the run. I enjoy the run. I mean, but I, that is like my sacred time.

It is, yeah. And when I hit my Wednesday speed workouts, I'm dialed in. Yep. Just like you said, I'm focused on that, that segment that I'm in. I'm thinking about the upcoming segment, and I'm trying to hold pace, and I'm just there. in it, present. And then for these big marathon-paced workouts like

tomorrhocks like tomorrow's, I'll be the same way. I'm not really thinking about life or creativity or business. But for the remainder of my runs time of the week, I never really go into a run saying, I'm going to navigate this chapter of my life. No, definitely not.

But it just comes. It comes. 100%. That's exactly how it is. Because there'll be a time where I'm literally for an easy hour run. All I'm thinking about is breaking sub 2.30. And I'm putting myself, I'm visualizing myself doing that. I throw myself in the ecosystem of CIM. I know the course I've run it before.

So that's happened a lot over the last three months. It's just like, okay, I know what the system is with the buses and where the porta-potties are. And I'm like working through the start. I know that first hill at the beginning. There's another little bridge at the end. So I'm constantly working through that. But then there are times where like it'll just something will come in my head and I'll, for 30 minutes, I'll zone out.

And I'll be thinking about that thing. But you're right. You never wake up and like, today I'm going to think about how to solve this financial issue in my business. It's never like that. But it is those things. I just give myself the freedom to allow it my mind to just go wherever it is. And there's times where it's been, it's gone, you know, it's gone pretty intense in terms of just like trauma that I'm working through or situations and I'm not going through it. like this is going to be a good therapy session for me.

It's just like, I'll see something. I'll see something. I'll random thought will pop in my head and I'll give myself the freedom to just explore that thought and to see what happens and to see what comes in my mind. It is pretty powerful where your mind will focus on the thing that is highest priority at that point in your life. Yep. So if I'm, if I'm having a fight with Steph, I will navigate and dissect. You ain't all this sourdough. I ate all the sourdough.

She ate all the beads. I ate all the sourdough. But like my, that will just pop in my head and I will start dissecting and navigating that. Right. Very, with a lot of clarity. A lot of clarity. See, that's it. And whether it's a business issue that I'm dealing with or.

Usually it's interpersonal problems that I'm navigating. Right. And if I don't run, those just sneak up and come. compound. And the only way to describe it is when I'm running consistently and regularly, and I'm introducing or incorporating these runs that allow the freedom of clarity, I'm sitting in a room and the water is kept at a minimal level. And when I don't run, for everyone it's probably not running. It might be meditation. Yeah. Another form of physical activity too.

Yeah, some sort of cycling or whatever. Yeah. Something that allows you the freedom of mental clarity to navigate life's problems.

Absolutely. When I'm not doing something like that, I'm in this room, the water is starts to rise. Slowly rising. And it gets right

where I have one nostril left, you know, and you're just, you're about to drown. Wow. And that's the only way I can describe it. So I need that in my life now. Like running for me is,

at this chapter my life, it's essential. Maybe years down the road, like, it won't be running. It'll be something else. Of course, right. And before running, it was more bodybuilding, more strength stuff. Like, what was that for you prior to that running bug that you caught? I don't know if I had anything before. I don't know if I had anything before running. I started running right before meeting Steph. I'd say right before, I don't want to say life got complicated, but life got more complex. The business started to grow. We hired more employees. Met staff got married, started a family. Life becomes more complex the older you get.

And then you're trying to navigate all these transitions and questions and my doing the right thing. Am I spending enough time on my marriage? Am I spending enough time in my business? So running was introduced into my life. would say at the right time. Perfect time. Wow. To be able to truly navigate that next season.

Yeah. And that's why looking back on it, it's become a really sacred space for you because it came to you at the right time. Clarity, so much clarity has come from it. But then you've also had enough, I guess, perspective, be able to pull back and look at,

okay, sometimes when I'm not running, that water starts to rise, which I think is such a beautiful thing to think about. And I absolutely feel the same way, especially like after a marathon, like when I'm not running and I'm trying to recover, it's like those three weeks, two weeks a month, or I'm just like, I get so antsy and so uneasy and I just want to get back out. Like one of my favorite things that, Maddie thinks I'm crazy,

but it's like the last few years I've gone on Christmas runs like in the morning, like before anybody's up. I mean, it's like early. It's dark out. And I just like, but Maddie, she's like, can you not do that this year? I'm like, it's just so magical. And I just, even though it would be right after CIM, hopefully that would be my first run back.

But no, I love that. That's, yeah. Do you have run off the top of your head that has been the best run of your life that you can think of? Yeah. The best run of my life. See, that's so, is it good because of a hard workout that I hit? Is it good because of just an experience, the light, the atmosphere? That's what I'm trying to think.

Because there's one that, I guess, there's two that really come a workout. I would say it was in Central Park. for my CIM build last year. Maddie and I had just came back from Thailand. We had found out we were pregnant with Oliver. It was a crazy month of travel. We were in, yeah, we came back from Thailand. We were in New York for a week before we had to go to Germany.

And during that week in New York, it was in like mid-October. So it was like right in the heart of, you know, a good, the meaty part of the CIM build. And I, or it was towards the end of, it was before New York City Marathon, But late October. And I just had a, it was a workout where everything just clicked. Everything fell in place.

I was able to do this 13-mile workout in Central Park. Central Park's my second favorite place to run ever. Something happens when I'm in that part where having lived there before, my left for the city, it was in fall. I mean, I just, it was the best workout I've ever done because all the pieces hit at the right time. It was like a 5.30, 6 a.m. run. And it just, yeah, that was, that one just sticks in my, in my mind. Is that the one in your doc?

Exactly. Yeah, I remember, I remember seeing the energy in your eyes. Oh, when I finished and I was just like, because it just finally, it all clicked. Everything. And I had just laid some, some bad eggs and workouts prior to that. And it was the one. And maybe you have one for this build where it just like clicked. And every effort felt right.

Hit your splits faster than your splits. And you had target time. And then, I mean, didn't for 13. miles didn't stop once. It was just like the perfect combination of everything that should have happened even better because I was ahead of my split time. So that was that. But I would say like when I do my sunrise beach runs in Florida, that's a very spiritual experience. That's my favorite place to run hands down. So I have very fond memories in the last few years of running in St. Augustine because the beaches are massive. I mean, I'm not even exaggerating, probably like a football field wide.

They are so wide. And it's just like, yeah, getting there as you see the, you hear the ocean, the waves crash in. You feel that ocean breeze hitting you as soon as that sun comes up. It gets like 15 degrees hotter because it's in Florida in August. So you got to get out really early. It's, yeah, it's a very special place, especially going up in Florida too. There's just a lot of nostalgia wrapped in that. But yeah.

I love running hard in Florida. It's so good. We get a 30A. Oh, yeah. I love running on 30A. I've actually been thinking about approaching Steph and saying, hey, let's go. Because now we live six hours from 30A. Yeah, that's not bad.

By drive. By drive. Yep. I'm going to go, let's drive down there for a weekend. It's my favorite place to run. Yep. Last year, when I was prepping for Buffalo, I hit some of my big workouts there. Exactly.

On the beach or like on like the streets and stuff like your streets? Okay. But there was nothing like hitting a big like 22 mile workout in the morning and sitting, and we were there in April. Okay. And then sitting on the beach with. family. Yep. Steph was pregnant then, too.

I used this was two years ago. Okay. Sitting on the beach with your pregnant wife who's doing like six, seven weeks and just being like, wow, you crushed that workout. Yep. There's one run for me that stands out. I think, this is getting me jacked up for tomorrow's workout, by the way. Let's see it.

We're in Michigan. Okay. Wow. Steph's family has a cottage up north in Michigan. Okay. And I haven't obviously done much snow running. Okay. Because I started running a lot once I got to Texas.

Yep. So it was rare that I was running in the cold. So it was in the winter? It was in the winter. Gotcha. I want to say it was maybe December, January. Yep. We might have been there for Christmas, actually.

We went up to their cottage and it was snowing. and there was probably like a foot of snow on the ground and then it was bright sunshine, cold, snowing, and I went out for a run. I can already see it. And I ran down this road, and I even had to put like snow cleats on my shoes to be able to get traction.

And I ran down this road, and I went off into this trail, and I ran down this trail, and after I'm like two miles in, I couldn't tell if I was on the road anymore. or if I was in the woods, because there was so much snow accumulating, I'm just running on what I thought was the trail. And I'm just looking up, no one in sight, no houses, no people, big chunks of snow

coming down, landing on my face, on my hat, my beard. I had a beard at the time. It was frozen. And it was so peaceful that I started crying. Oh, my gosh. I started crying on the run. Absolutely. Nobody else is there to experience that with you too. That's the other thing.

I mean, you're like, nobody was even to believe me if I tried to tell them and to paint this picture of what this looks like. I can already see. Dude, it was incredible. Wow.

I think I did like eight to ten miles that day. One of those runs where you just don't want to stop. I didn't want to stop. I was like in this groove. And everything just felt right. My mind was clear. Right. And it was just like one of the most powerful,

amazing runs in my life. I see running has the ingredients to give people those kinds of experiences, which is just, and it's hard to get all the right conditions, right, you've got to have the right light, the right weather, the right surroundings, the right environment, to get those really magical. For me, it was that New York one where it was just the perfect time in a build. But I mean, I've never ran in the snow, but I can't only fathom what that was like. And I can already kind of see it creatively and visually. And I probably would have cried too. That's, I'm just so thankful that running gives us those moments. It's not often.

that don't happen. I mean, right now, Nashville's really beautiful. Tomorrow's run is going to be kind of gloomy and overcast. So those colors are really going to be vibrant and popping, especially down here. And Frank, where are you doing your workout tomorrow? You're going to Shelby? I'm going to go to Shelby. Dude, I might come to Shelby, too. I'm going to do the whole thing on the airstrip. No, you're not. You guys I am. 22 miles off. I'm going to the whole thing on the air strip. Oh, God. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, that's my plan. Oh, my gosh. That's wild. That's wild. But the truth is, not all of, not even majority of your runs.

Yeah. Facilitate that type of experience. No, no, no. I mean, they are probably one in, one out of what? One out of a hundred. I mean, they're even far between. It is. But it's special when it happens.

Yeah, man, that's good. So you have to, you have to embrace all the subpar. Miserable. Miserable runs. Horrible weather. Don't want to get out. Yep. I mean, there's so many times,

especially when you get deeper into a build. Yeah. I mean, right now, we're at the peak of this prep. Yeah. This is the peak week after this, we start to decrease volume and intensity. It's a tough week because you've accumulated so much fatigue. And like I was telling you, when I go and do taper, I typically drop a lot of weight because I'm holding so much inflammation from just a fatigue that I've held onto through a prep.

But after this week, you know, you put out of that. these big efforts, you build this confidence, you decrease volume and intensity, and you show up race day with a new set of legs. They're springy. They're like, they were just hatched. Yeah, 100%. The body knows it's ready. It's such a wild experience because I remember being like two days out from CIM last year and just like, gosh, my legs still feel so dead. And then that morning, it just, everything was right. Everything was right. Yeah. The tapered such a fun time. and mentally if we're not prepared. For those, if you run into your first marathon,

just be aware of these phantom injuries because they are not real, but they do pop up. And that was, yeah, hopefully I don't have any of this time. Yeah, for every race I've ever done. You've had one. I have phantom injuries. What is that even about?

What's the science behind that? That's so bizarre. I mean. Like you're not injured, but your mind or your body is telling you, hey, I'm here, but I'm not real. Like, that's such a, I hate that. I would argue that, like,

it's because you are so personally invested. Right. You care so much. Yeah. It's like when you get nervous for these big workouts, it's because you care. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Those nerves, these phantom injuries. Yeah. It's a sign of how much you've put into this process. Right. You know, the reward is only so. beneficial and giving because of what's been dumped into. That's why it feels so good to PR race or finish the across the finish line. Remember at Buffalo, I ring this, I rang the PR bell.

And it just, it lights your soul and fire. When all of this work comes together to this one moment where you get to prove to yourself, not anyone else. Like you said, you run the marathon to, to compete against yourself in the clock. Yep, exactly. That's why I run. Exactly. Not trying to be number one.

Not trying to beat the person next to me. I am competing with myself in the clock. And when I cross the finish line, the results are objective. And it's a reflection of the weeks and months leading up to. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Joe, tomorrow. Dude, we're going to rip.

22 miles. Yep. I'll text you right after. We'll have a little catch up, see how we did. shook out, but no, I'm excited. Eat a few more of those beats. Eat a few more of those beats. I definitely have to get that. I'm probably going to have some sourdough in the morning. I'll probably, you know, I was just going to go just raw dog, man.

I was going to wake up and just freaking let it rip and then rely on the gels. But you may have changed my mind. And I may get up earlier and have some sourdough and properly fuel. And they maybe hit a whole strength workout before, too. Yeah, I love to hear that. Yeah. Do you and M Club, baby. Dude, I know, I need to.

I need a membership big time. 23 days out. Yeah, ma'am. CIM. 2023. It's going to be great. It's going to be great. We'll see you there. I'll see you there.