The Nick Bare Podcast - 049: Fueling Creativity: Lessons Learned From Building The BPN Media Team

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

Today, I’m sitting down with my close friend and BPN employee #5, Jordan Utter. Jordan was brought on at BPN in 2019 as the first creative hire. We’re sharing stories about the early days and what it took to build not only a company but also a brand fueled by creativity. We’re talking about lessons learned, creating out of passion instead of following trends, how the mission impacts your work, and everything in between. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did! Save 10% at BPN Supps: https://bit.ly/nickbare10audio Follow for more:  IG: https://www.instagram.com/nickbarefitness/ YT: https://www.youtube.com/@nickbarefitness Keep up with Jordan here: IG: https://www.instagram.com/jordanutter_/

In this episode of the podcast, I sit down with my creative director, Jordan Utter. Jordan joined the BPN team in 2019. He was employee number five. He joined seven years after I started BPN out of my small college apartment in Western Pennsylvania. And for those first seven years, I was filming, editing, and creating almost all of my own content. But in 2019, I knew I needed help in order to scale the business and focus on other parts of the organization outside of editing content. And when Jordan joined, it was a pivotal decision. It was a pivotal point in the year. It was a pivotal point of the business's

life. After that, we grew 400%. We went from about 5.6 million in revenue to over 22 million in revenue. We started hiring more people to join the team. 2019 is the year that the trajectory of BPN changed, evolved, and grew professionally and for me personally. And in this episode, I'm down with Jordan. We talk about what 2019 looked like, what it felt like, and how it changed and evolved over the years since then. It's amazing conversation. Jordan is a great friend that I trust with my entire life and everything. And I'm very proud to have him on this team. So let's dive into this episode.

Today on the podcast, we have BPN employee number five, my creative director, Jordan Utter. This has been a long time coming. Welcome to the show, dude. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Starting five. That feels good. I'm not starting five, you know.

So I'm equally as scared today as I am excited because I get a front row seat to all the amazing guests that come on this show. So I just hope this episode is as valuable. Trying to end up around like a Chad Wright and like a Jeff Cunningham. We'll see. So like full send in your face? Full send. So do you have a bunch of one-liners that you're ready for? I'm ready.

Yep. You probably learn that from Jeff. All right, here's where I want to start in this conversation. We're going to go to some extremes. One of the things I was talking to Steph about last night is you are one person who has been by my side for a long time now. You've seen me at my highest of highs. You have seen me at my lowest of lows. Physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually.

and you've had a front row seat to BPN being built for the past couple years. So you started in 2019 on the BPN team. Let's go back there. Let's go back to 2019. What BPN looked like your move down from Ohio to Texas. Take me back there. Explain the situation of life you were in in, in 2019, how old you were, what life looked like. And let's talk about the move to Texas.

Love it. I'm super grateful to share the story too because I get this question a lot from my young creatives when we do meetups and things like that. I kind of get pulled to the side and like, how did you end up working for Nick? And hopefully it's a valuable story. But I think when I met you, I'd come down to Austin to shoot for another YouTuber actually. And he was doing a cloud with you and we went to your gym. So I was able to meet you. And I was like, holy crap, I've followed this guy forever. And I remember after I DM'd you, because Travis, the other YouTuber that we were with, is like, Nick's been looking for a guy for a long time, like a media guy. And I'm like, how's he not found someone? Like, this is a dream job. And so I just DMJ is like, hey,

I'd love to put my name in that hat. What does the interview process look like? And immediately, you're like, can you come back like next week and film my half Iron Man? I was like, absolutely. So came back the next week. And to even take a step back, I was three weeks from getting. married at this time, me and my now wife, Michaela. And so I'd like tell her, hey, this could lead to something where we moved to Austin, Texas. We're in Cincinnati, Ohio. And Nick wants me to come to film a half Iron Man. And immediately she knew, like, this is probably going to happen. So it was like immediate, like, panic in her mind, like, we're three weeks from getting married. So I flew back, we're on the side of an interstate. You're doing a half Iron Man. You're on your bike. You're running.

I'm yelling at Steph. I'm in the back of the truck. And there's 18 wheelers. flying by, it's 100 degrees out. You almost had a heat stroke. It was hot. It was very hot. And I was like, I want to do this every single day. It was so freaking fun. I was trying to be like really nice to Steph and like, hey, there's 18 wheeler.

Can you get over? Don't want to die. And then also she would panic. And it was just chaos. I was like, I want to do this every single day in my life because at the time I was just doing freelance. And I was doing a lot of weddings and a lot of corporate work and just not the most fun work. I was around a lot of fun people.

And that made it fun. but not the work that I dreamed of, not the stories that I wanted to tell. And I always dreamed of like working for a company like BPN or, you know, at the time, a YouTuber like yourself. And that was like the work I looked up to. And so, yeah, it was kind of, now I'm living the life. I feel like that I had always dreamed of. But I was slowly losing hope that would ever happen when the job came along.

And I was like, holy crap, like, it was the most unexpected time, right, for I was about to get married. And I was starting to just think, maybe I'll just do this freelance thing and build my own little production company and just do corporate commercials and weddings. And then boom, life change real quick. So we moved two weeks after we got married and walked in. And it was Preston, Joe and John working and you. And we had IKEA kitchen tables as our desk. And it was the most wild just first day.

And the last five years had just been nuts. As I was planning for this conversation. I think this can be very valuable and impactful for a lot of people. Because I sent you over these notes last night, but I just kept thinking back to saying the quote, we plan and God laughs. And for a lot of younger people, you try to plan the rest of your life.

And as you start getting older, and you don't hit these milestones as you expected or planned on, people start freaking out. Like, oh my gosh, I didn't get my dream job by 22. I'm not making six figures by 28. I'm not married by 30. I don't have kids by 33. It's like people start freaking out when they don't hit these milestones

that they put in place. But the reality is, like, we can plan so much. But God has a plan for us. And we have to be able to adapt and pivot to what we're facing. But yesterday I was on Sam Pahr's podcast. Yep. And this is why I wanted to have this conversation with you, because he asked the question, how did you build out a media team? And he recognized, and he gave us a great compliment.

He said a lot of businesses, a lot of brands want to become a media business, build their own internal media agency. But so many fail through that process. And he identified that BPN is one of those brands that have been able to do it successfully. And you can only do that successfully as a business as a brand when you have the right people telling the right stories. And I started the business in 2012, didn't bring on the first creative being you until 2019. I filmed and edited everything for those first seven years. Part of it was by choice. Part of it was by necessity.

But a massive part of that is because I couldn't find the right person. for almost two years before you took the job, I was reaching out to everyone and anyone. And I would fly them into Austin. They would stay with me or we'd put them in a hotel. And, you know, BPN didn't have much accessible cash to, to spend on these trips. Like, I was bringing people in and I was trying to, you know,

rub two pennies together as well as possible. And I mean, I have stories for days of, like, the creatives that I would bring in. they would stay with me. We'd create something. It was pretty good, but I didn't vibe with them. Like there wasn't the chemistry there. And then when you came down with Travis to film for that collaboration,

then you came back down to film my half Iron Man. And then went and filmed that Iron Man in Florida. Like the storytelling was there. The care for your profession was there. The chemistry was there. The energy was there. I was like, I remember where we were. We were at a gas station in North Austin after being at the Lifetime Fitness.

I was like, will you move? It was during that half Iron Man that we were filming. Yeah, I was like, this guy's losing his mind. Yeah. He's delusional right now. But I'm the type of person where it's gut feeling intuition. I can tell when someone's the right person. for the right position on the right team.

And as soon as I met you, I was like, you're the guy. And you literally moved down right after getting married. Yep. Moved you and your new wife and started a brand new life or outside of Austin, Texas. Yep. And I remember you telling me about the conversation you had with your family as you told them about the move.

Can you kind of explain like what that was like? Yeah. Because BPN was by no means the size it is today. Yeah. It was funny, like, trying to explain to them. And when you're new father, when you tell your new father-in-law that you're taking his only daughter and moving across the country, you don't expect the reaction to be great. Just for everyone listening, you don't expect the reaction to be great. Especially when you tell him it's an e-commerce business and he says, what's e-commerce? He's a farmer. This is a 55-year-old farmer, traditional, has barely left. you know, this small town in Ohio. And, you know, Michaela was a nurse. So he thought you guys are going to work nine to five jobs, you know, get a little bit of land, build a home. Everything's

smooth. And then I kind of throw a wrench in the whole family's plan. So his reaction was, why in the heck, I'll say heck, would you want to move to Texas? And here I go rambling. Well, it's this, it's a supplement company. And, you know, they do five million dollars a year. And it's e-commerce business and, you know, he's got this many thousands on YouTube and just blank stare, just cannot comprehend it. So that was one side of the family. It was like a foreign language to him. Foreign language. And I think at that point, I just accepted like he's not going to understand. And if anything, it kind of motivated me more. I mean, everyone wants to make like your father and your father-in-law proud. So it motivated me more to be like, let's go build this thing.

Let's, I know the potential I can see it. Like, it just kind of even lit me up more to go build this thing. And on the other side, when I told my mom, she was like, how could you not do that? And it's funny how families are so different. And not that one's right or wrong, they just express that love and care differently. And my mom's always been like a yes person. And I think it's got me really far in life where it's like, why not? Just say yes and see where it goes. It doesn't matter what it pays. Doesn't matter how uncomfortable it'll be. Just say yes. Like, you know, especially when I was 21. It's like, what do you have to lose? What's kind of her like thoughts? Like, y'all can move. back. You can move back in with me. I think she'd probably

been happier if that would happen. Yeah. So I kind of had two different reactions, but it was so funny trying to explain what this business was and how we only had five employees. And at the time, it felt massive. It felt like, oh, this company's taken over the world. So when you feel that, like, deep conviction

and just fire that, like, this is what I'm supposed to do, I kind of didn't care what the reaction was. It was really just, I cared how it would affect Michaela, but I was like, I was already set. I was already good. I'm I'm going. So it's kind of just like more of a goodbye to people. But yeah, two totally different reactions. But they're both were rooted in love and care for for us. So just making sure we're

going to be taken care of. One of the greatest things that took away from my podcast with Chris Williamson earlier this year is that he was talking about the common denominator that the most successful people in the world have. And it said they have explored. their curiosities. And ever since the moment he said that, it just really clicked with me because of any success that I've achieved in my life, by the way that I define it, it's only because I've decided to take action and explore my curiosities. So you had a curiosity in the beginning of videography and filmmaking and storytelling,

which then led to the curiosity of picking up your family and moving to Texas. we only ever make progress in life by exploring these curiosities. Would you agree with that statement? Absolutely. I think this career path that I'm on now is probably the most unpredictable path I could ever been on. Like grown up, small town where there's sports, hunting, fishing, farming. No one I knew had a camera. No one I knew was into any kind of arts or creative.

We didn't have classes like that in our school. I never had just an inkling to go film something on a GoPro, which is like a lot of people's first camera and had to try to put together a little home video, nothing. Just athlete and then started when I went to college was going to go for exercise physiology and become a physical therapist. And that's where everything kind of started was, I was like, started doing observation hours. Like, this isn't the career I think I want to do. And I was really stuck. And coming back to that word curiosity, I'm like, Jordan, you've always been just a curious person, but you've always kind of held back because of being judged by others and like you're stuck and now's the time to think of things

you're curious about and just go try them and for some reason that day like um you know picking up a camera popped in my head and i think it was because i was at this time it's 2015 so fitness youtube is booming it's you that was the peak goose ma on steve cook and all this and and i was that's all i would do outside of going to class and lifting was watch fitness youtube so i just kind of have had this moment where I was like, someone has to be making these videos. Obviously, for you, you were making everything yourself. But even then, like these stories and how it makes me feel. And I watch these, I feel inspired. I want to go start a business. I want to go lift. And someone has to make these. And again, I was like, okay, you feel curious about it. Just go try it. And there's another way to

explain it. But it was just this deep, like burning just this is what you're supposed to do. This is just something I feel so led to do. And that day, I went. spent like $600 on a camera at the camera store, did like an hour research. And families like, what are you doing? Like, why would you spend that much money? Like on paper made no sense to anyone. It didn't make sense to me, but I could just feel it like this is what I'm supposed to do. Two months later, dropped out of college because I just started filming people at the gym.

I just go up to people in the gym. I just go up to people in the gym, like, I make you a workout video. Start DMing people that were within four hours of my, you know, of Cincinnati and went drive to them and shoot for free. And so it was just this curiosity and just this. passion of where can this camera take me, what stories can I tell that led me here. But yeah, just doing so much free work. Just DMing people, hey, I'll come shoot this. I'll edit this for free. Just curious. And here we are. So yeah, pretty crazy story, I guess. I mean, there's something

to say there that I think a lot of people can can learn from. Yeah. Is that oftentimes people want to get paid for a craft that they haven't tried, tested, or perfected yet. And in the beginning, you have to be, you have to be a student. You have to be willing and able to learn and learn as much as possible. And oftentimes that requires just doing work for free. And it's not even doing work for free to connect with people or network, but it's doing things for free to just gain the experience. I just wanted something to shoot.

I was like, hey, I'm bored. I need something to shoot. I can't watch any more YouTube videos on this technique or topic. I need to get out there and do it. Yeah. And I mean, the creator economy has changed so much, I feel like since then. And then there wasn't as many people doing video. And it already felt like, oh, these guys are crushing it and everyone's getting paid. But now these young creators just are really losing touch with that. Like, you have to earn it mentality. And that's like one of my big pieces of advice still is just DM people, go work for free. but it just feels like slowly losing touch with that. And it's just, well, my friend's been doing it for three months. He's already making a full time living. And they just feel like everyone around them is crushing, everyone's balling. And it's just not the truth, like, frankly. So that's like one of my biggest piece of advice still is like, just do work for free. Because I think even when I came down and film with you, I wasn't, hey, you're not

to pay my day rate, which is what I hear so many young creators now. And I'm like, are you serious? Do you know where this could go? So I think just coming back to that curiosity and just say yes and see where it goes, stop thinking about like how much money will it pay me. What connection can I build? What will this collab do? Even then, like, you know, these fitness kind of influencers,

like, well, I'll like tag you in the post. I'm like, I don't care. Like, if it inspires someone or makes someone feel something, like I'm good. I'm content. Like just my time will come. I just want to create. So, yeah. Yeah, in the beginning, if you're not willing to do it for free,

you're probably not really interested in the actual work. Yeah. Like when I first started creating YouTube videos, I made no money. Yep. I remember brands would reach out to me. Yeah. Like this cookie, this protein cookie brand reached out to me and said, hey, we'll send you like five cookies if you do a full video for us.

Yeah. Sweet. Absolutely. And we were recently talking about this. But Casey Nicestat, now as he stepped back a little bit from the sheer volume of content that he used to produce. He now has a different perspective. And for those of you who don't know Casey Nicestat,

Casey Nicestat pioneered YouTube vlogging. And set the stage, built the foundation for storytelling through a vlog, capturing an audience. He is the one who inspired and motivated me to pick up a camera and tell stories through his editing, through his style, through the dialogue. One of the most influential people of my entire life and career.

Likewise. I mean, he's a legend. Legend. Yep. But I've been listening a lot of his podcast and conversations recently, and you and I have talked about this. And one of his greatest frustrations with the creator economy right now is people are no longer showing up in creating for themselves with originally.

and through authenticity. And he refers to it as the Mr. Beastification, where you have Mr. Beast, who is an amazing creator, who is the largest creator on YouTube. But that's his blueprint. That is his intent. That is his strategy. That is his plan.

He has a full team behind him. But everyone tries to replicate what Mr. Beast has done on his platform and when they do that, they don't create authentically to them. They're doing it to try to replicate what has already been built. And that's the issue with the creator economy. That's the issue with the world as a whole right now is we're just imitating what other people are doing in hopes of achieving what they have achieved, even though it isn't true and authentic to ourselves. And that's just a, it's a dangerous place to be, but it's also miserable and it's not fulfilling

in a huge sense as well. Yeah, not to sound like two old men here. here just griping on what creative, you know, the creator economy used to look like. But, dude, I mean, even say 2015, 2016, like, it's wild today that you can build a following off replicating what other people are doing. Whereas 2015, 2016, probably up until 2009, like, if you replicated what someone else did, you would get roasted. You get, like, blacklisted. Yeah, as a creative. Like, I know we've talked about it. Now, That is how people are building it.

Like, it seems like that actually is the blueprint now is look what's working, look at the trends, what what songs, and do the same thing. But I think, like, that's where it comes back to the question you have to ask yourself. Like, what's your intentions? What's your goals? For me and you, I know, like, that's our worst nightmare is creating trends and creating things that other people are doing or replicating what other people are doing. But what sets us on fire is like, how can we pioneer?

year. How can we be trailblazers of, I don't even care if it becomes a trend, but just new concepts, original ideas, like, let's think of something different. Let's edit videos differently. Let's shoot them differently. That's so much more fulfilling. So just, oh, gosh, that just feels so much better when you put a video out that a lot of times we're like, we don't, I mean, we care outperforms, but we're not analyzing it like these people are where it's strictly just business. It's strictly numbers and analytics and likes and comments. Like, we're looking at what are the comments saying, And as far as how is it making people feel, how's it impacting people? We go to meetups.

Like, what are people saying about the videos? It's like, what's the heart behind it is way more important to me than just growing for the sake of growing, which feels like now is everyone's goal. Well, there's longevity and there's more runway when you're creating or even just working through a passion in which you believe in. and I believe that's why we've worked so well together for so long now is because we feel the same way about the work that we're creating and the more we're putting out there and how it's received.

And it's more of a intuition, gut-feeling, subjective measure rather than this objective measure. A lot of creators get caught up on a lot of businesses in general. Like, not even just creators, but businesses in general get caught up on key performance indicators, KPIs, objective measures, PNLs, balance sheets, data, data, data, which is important.

It has a time and place. However, if you just try to build something based off of data, black and white, yes or no, you lose the heartbeat. You lose the DNA, you lose the pulse. And once that pulse is gone, you have something that is just,

it's literally dead. Yeah. It's dead. Yeah. And I feel like on the other side of that, I feel like a deep responsibility with the platform you've built, the platform that are trying to build. And just as a creator in general, to use my gifts and my talents to make something worth watching.

Like, I think people lose touch that. There's human beings on the other side that are being bombarded with noise and just bland content. And it's not standing out for the sake of our own clout or our own hype and it's people saying, oh, they're unique, they're special. But it's like, let's stand out to make people truly, like, feel something and shift their perspective and maybe open their eyes to what they're capable of and help people reach their full potential. And like, we're not going to do that just by making this self-fulfilling trendy content that just meets our numbers, but doesn't actually make, you know, make content that is worth watching for people that they stop in the middle of their

day and say, I'm going to watch this 13, 15, 20 minute video. Nick Bears because I know I'm going to come out on the other side of a better person. That to me is like the responsibility and like the duty that I think we carry. I think that's why when we put out bland content or something that just doesn't feel right to us, it's probably just this deep insecurity or like just unsettled, you know, restlessness. That's like, I just don't think it's going to be worth it for people. Right. Even if we know to perform well.

We know a lot of ways that we can make the numbers do really well and make videos to perform well, but never sits well with us. We never repeat it. And that's probably why, again, we work so well together because as your media director, I could easily, like, know you need to do this. And we've seen the people that have come around and have said, Nick, you need to do this. If you want to grow, you need to do this to build a platform. And I think one thing we always come back to is like, we can grow, but we can also grow while

making super meaningful content. Yeah, when there's been moments, and there have been moments where we have tried to grow just to grow and play with the numbers and track every data point and curate our content in the way we package it to feed that beast. Yeah. It works. Like, you grow, but it starts killing you inside. I leave this feeling so empty.

So empty. I lose the desire to create in general. I'm actually reading Steve Magnus's book right now and do hard things. and I'm listening to it while I'm on my run. And this morning, there was this amazing nugget in there that's pretty applicable to this. And it was giving examples of people's lives,

moments in history, the world in general, where when you lose control of something, it starts actually killing you inside. You start dying. And it used these examples of mice through experiments in rats and people. And there was this rat, for example, this experiment with rats, and they were thrown in a body of water. And the rats had the ability to swim and get out.

But the rats were thrown in, felt like they had a loss of control. Some rats were able to swim out and save themselves. But the others who just felt this loss of control. and ended up just going to water and killing themselves. Now, that's an extreme, but the way it's applicable to this is if you play the game and you try to work or build something just based off of objective data, for a lot of people, including myself, I feel like I lose control. I have no control of what I create, how I create, what it looks like, what it feels like,

because I'm creating based off of these metrics and these data points that are forcing me to create in certain ways, it starts killing me inside. Yeah. It literally starts eating me away and nothing is physically wrong with me. My body's fine. My organs are pumping. I feel great. But it's emotionally, mentally draining me and killing me. So I like having the ability to control what we want to create through storytelling.

and messaging and impact. Because when we follow the numbers and we just build based off that, it has no fulfillment for us at least. Everyone's different, but for us, like it's the way we approach creativity. Yeah, it's a dangerous place to be as far as your reputation goes too.

Because eventually, very quickly, people will sniff it out, especially for someone like you that's been so authentic for so long and has made it very clear on playing the long game. as soon as we start to play into trends, people sniff it out.

And I think, like, on the flip side, if you build something off of trends, the real you will eventually come out. And, you know, people will sniff it out. They meet people in person. Like, it wasn't who I expected it was going to be. Or people build, you know, off trends and this identity that isn't true to them

and eventually it gets exposed. So I think, like, when it comes to this content game, like, at the end of the day, reputation is probably one of the most important things you can have as well. So, yeah. makes our job a lot easier too when we're just creating

through originality and authentically. Yeah. And it's kind of a paradox because the numbers tend to go up when we do that. Yeah. Which is, I think the encouraging part

to maybe a young creative out there or someone that's like, well, I have to follow the trends and get into this. Easy for you to say, Nick, you build a big platform.

It's like, the numbers will come. You just got to be willing to be patient and flexible and adaptable and, you know, change. Right.

Well, let's talk about Let's talk about 2019. What a year. What a year. What that looked like when you first got started. I want to paint a picture for the audience. Because now if people follow, even the last couple years, people have followed the YouTube channel or any of the content around the business. It's evolved so much.

I mean, I set down from the CEO role. Kat Thomas is now our CEO. I'm living in this founder role, chief brand officer. But, I mean, 2019, when you first started, we had, we were moved into our second warehouse. Our first warehouse was 6,000 square feet. And that was just three of us. And then we moved into about 10,000 square foot footprint. And that was office up front and then warehouse in the back.

And for us, we also put a private gym in the warehouse. And you mentioned previously, these Ike. desks. I mean, we didn't have much money to spend. So whenever someone knew got started, we'd get over to IKEA. I'd get one of their big kitchen tables that they had because I could fit like three or four people at one of those desks. And then we'd get a chair there as well.

And we had this big open office. We had all the tables. Everyone's desk was out there. We had a meeting room, my office, little kitchenette. But we showed up every day. not necessarily with a plan of attack, but it was show up, do what needs to be done, and just thinking outside of the box.

What can we create to build this brand to where it needs to be? Like, what can we do that other brands aren't doing? And we weren't even looking at other companies or brands or content. It was literally just at a table brainstorming. How do we spread the mission of BPN? how do we share the concepts of going more? And it was really leaning to that, which was so much fun. I mean, it was like, that was startup,

it was a startup organization, business at its finest. And a lot of people haven't been able to experience that and never will. So I would love to hear from your perspective what that looked like, what it was like to be around. First off, it was so freaking fun. I mean, what we do now is fun. But that's just a different type of naive, I guess just a naive fun.

Just like you said, we come in and it's kind of just a blank slate. Obviously, you'd build it for seven years, but now first media hire, there was a very known thing around the office. Like, we have to level up. Like, you know, obviously we have a media guy now. We have to take things to the next level.

So naturally, the first day, we film you naked on a treadmill. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about it. So we, Black Friday's coming up. We have to go ahead to give away this treadmill. So this is literally the first day of the job too. So come in, it was me and Steph,

and we're like, how are we going to give away this treadmill? And I'm like sweating. Like, I got to spit out a good idea here. And I don't even remember who threw out the idea. It's probably Steph because, you know, she's your wife and she wanted to get you naked or something. I don't know. And somebody threw out the idea, you know, running in the winter,

like everyone hates it because you got to wear some of layers. And as you get halfway through the run, you get hot and you start stripping off layers. So what if we really lean into that to like give away this treadmill? is like you're solving that problem for people. You can put it in your spare bedroom, put in your basement, you can run on it. You could run on it naked if you want to. No layers.

So naturally we film it and we do a little skid and we film it. And I just set up the camera and you get on the treadmill naked. And then I said, I don't know why I set the camera up, looked away. Because at some point I had to go into the footage and edit it. Yeah. But I blurt out the butt real quick and we gave away a treadmill. And then we did our first million on Black Friday, First million dollar month.

So it worked. That was one of my favorite. I mean, I could never go back and do that. Again, there'd be like, I'd probably be sued or there'd be like HR complaints. Right in front of like two windows. That's the best part, dude. So the gym, the way we had the gym set up, it was at the part of the warehouse that had all these big windows. And the people who had offices next to us were Baylor, Scott, and White.

employees. Hospital network. Hospital network. And they would walk laps around the business park all the time. So I had to be really careful because there were constantly women walking in front of that window, which was 10 feet away from the treadmill. If they would have walked by the wrong time and looked in, they would have seen me just like, butt-ass naked

running on this treadmill. We might have had Preston out there on security. We might have been by the door. Yeah. I think we're smarter than that. We might have had pressing on security. But we would arrive at the office. We would concept. We would brainstorm. Then we'd go shoot.

Yep. Edit. And video is like packaged, ready to go by the end of the day. Yeah. I mean, and it wasn't like it is now where we're filming your runs. You know, every morning at this time, it's pretty set. It was like, we knew we were going to get into the office, which was like 6.30 every morning. Eventually, you were like, hey, we need office hours as we start adding employees.

and you moved it to like, I think seven, and then that didn't work. And then you're like eight. And then so naturally everyone was like, okay, if it's eight, then I'm going to get here at 7.30, which is an amazing culture, by the way. And I think Preston was still getting there like six.

I think he was like, screw you, I'm going to get here early. But, yeah. They used to get there at like 6.30 a.m. And we'd be, I mean, we would. I remember those days because we had. Just down in a monster as soon as we got there. All right.

What are we going to do? Lived on caffeine. Lived on caffeine. Because we had, like, we'd, Up at 6.30 a.m. We create all day. Yeah. I have some meetings here and there with like contractors we were working with for web development or manufacturer or stuff like that. But we are creating all day. Brainstorming, working on the website. We would work pretty much up until 4.430. Yep. And then we would go into the gym. We'd all go in the gym. We'd take pre-workout, go into the gym, work out, run, lift. Come back. and then normally we'd all go for dinner somewhere. Yeah, I think we had like three team dinners a week.

We were always going to dinner. We'd go to dinner, have fun, get a cocktail, get some good food. And then we'd like come back to work and keep working until we went home for the night. Yep. And that was all of pretty much 2019 going to 2020. Yeah. But to really provide context into what that work does. from 2019 and 2020, we grew 400%.

Yeah. We went from about 5.6 million in revenue. It's like 22 million in revenue. Yeah. And how many employees were probably out of that year? I think we got up to like just like 12 on the team or something. I think we were just around 10 to 12. Which felt like every week someone new was starting.

I mean, when it's that type of a team and then you add someone new in, it's like, you know, for the first three months, you're like, I don't know this person. Like it takes a minute. So I feel like every week we're out and someone new and really it was probably every other month or something. If anyone's ever seen the social network documentary about Facebook and they go to that house and all the developers are working at that house and people are swimming in the backyard and jumping off the roof, that's kind of what it was like. Yeah. Come in and there'd be like someone new on the forklift.

I'm like, is this guy, does this guy work here now? And I just go up and introduce myself and like, Preston, do you hire someone new for where else? Oh, yeah. It's my buddy from college. I'm like, is he like, is he like a pain boy? Like he's going to be around? Yeah, we're growing. Kerm.

Oh, yeah, Kerm is like literally who I'm thinking of. I'm like, he's like, yeah, dude, we're growing. I'm like, guess you're right. Like, this is weird. Hire people. People would show up. We didn't have a desk or chair for anyone. Nope.

We did this like, we didn't have a lunch table. We didn't have a lunch table. But we have this iconic photo that I love. I got to find it. It's right after Trey started. Yep. So Trey started as our social media manager. Yep.

like April, May of 2020, I think. Yeah. A couple months after COVID hit. And I have this photo of, it was our media room. And our media room had a rug in it and just cameras and all this camera gear on the outside perimeter of this room. There was no table. There was no chairs.

We were all sitting on the floor brainstorming for videos around each other with like notebooks in hand. And then every day during lunch, I'd call everyone into my office. I'd have Jimmy Johns pulled up. Everyone put their Jimmy Johns order in. Jimmy Johns would get delivered. Remember that lady who would deliver the Jimmy Johns all the time? Yep.

I think we like probably got her a promotion or something. I'm sure. He kept her busy. But that was 2019 was like whatever it takes. Yep. Absolutely. Whatever it takes. Build, build, build.

Tell the story. Go to manufacturing facilities. Let's film. Let's create content. Like let's document building the brand. Yep. And recently I, I, I started reading and finish the book,

Show Your Work. Actually, I handed all of you guys that same copy. I'm like part way through right now. I need to speed up. By Austin Cleon. Yeah. And that book describes the way we built BPN. We documented and shared the entire process on social media as we were doing it.

So it made content creation pretty easy because we were just sharing. Just experimenting, testing. Yeah. Like learning, testing, learning, and just failing a lot along the way. I mean, we had so many concepts that we would shoot and we were supposed to post the next day or the day after for a massive sale. And it was like, hey, this doesn't feel right. All right, what's a new concept? We'd shoot it, scrap that.

Yeah. It was wild. During those first couple months and even that first year, what was your overall takeaway? What was the reality like compared to the expectation you had prior to moving down to Texas? It's a great question. I didn't expect probably to be, to have to be as flexible and adaptable. I didn't know what working for a startup really meant. Like I didn't even know we were classified as a startup. I had no clue what that meant. Just completely naive to anything business, anything in entrepreneurship, which is why when I was doing freelance, I being self-aware was like, I know I don't want to be an entrepreneur yet in my life. I want to find a company that is just amazing. And they're telling stories.

want to tell and I want to work there. I want to be a number five guy and just be a creative. And so I think that part of it of I didn't realize how much I would have to be flexible, adaptable, almost like this ownership mentality, which is like I applaud to you as a leader. I felt like from day one, I was like an owner of the company. Like I felt like I was like number two man. And I think everyone on the team felt that way. There's just such this sense of ownership and everything we did. And I don't know if that's like a, a character trait of all of us individuals or if it was like really implemented from you as a leader. I think it's probably a little bit of both. You probably saw that and that's the reason we got

the job. But I didn't expect that. I thought it would be like come in, kind of be told what to do and go make, you know, shoot it, make it look good, edit it good. But for the most part, Nick's going to call the shots. But I think from day one, it was like, hey, you're, you own this company as much as I do theoretically to everyone and act like it's yours. And that was like really shocking. And then that came with, holy crap. Like every day is going to look different. You got to flex and adapt and evolve and fail and grow.

I didn't expect that. That was definitely like a shaking. And I know we've talked about it recently. And I think I learned very quickly mental toughness isn't just like being really determined and resilient, working really hard. It's flexible and adaptable. It's, hey, what can you do with this team if I send you here to film? What can you do under this circumstance?

What kind of can you make a great video with this gear and have fun while doing it and just it was a blast. I think a lot of people fold under that when things start to get shaken up, which was literally every day. Yeah. If you didn't have the ownership mentality back then, yeah, like people who who got a job didn't have the ownership mentality. Yeah. They didn't last. Yeah. And a lot of the times, we didn't even have to fire them.

They just had the self-awareness to realize, wow, I don't, I don't have this mentality that the rest of the team has. Yep. This is not the place for me. Yeah. And early in those days, whenever I was doing job interviews and people would ask all the questions, you know, what are the hours? What's the typical day look like? You know, how much lunch do I get? All this kind of stuff.

Hey, man, I don't have this answer for you. But I don't think this is the place for you. Yep. And that's a fine conversation. Like some people need structure and like very clear expectations. But in the building phase of a business, like it's so unpredictable. You just got to do whatever it takes to get it off the ground. And I think that a lot of people who haven't experienced that type of business or culture might not be able to understand or relate to it.

And that's why those early days of hiring is so important because you need to find people who are bought into that mission. Because not every day is beautiful. Not every day is easy or has wins. There were a lot of hard days early on. But if you have the people around you who have that ownership mentality and they're bought in and they want to win, that's how you grow. That's a winning team. That's a winning business. It's it's the people.

100%. 100%. I don't think there was one conversation between, for the people that are, most of them are still on the team now,

but that we're thriving on the team. I don't think there was one conversation till 2021 that was like a what's in it for me. It was always, how can we accomplish this mission that Nix laid out

for BP and to accomplish? How can we grow this thing? Never, I feel like there was never any, you know, conversations about burnout or overwork. It was just, it's just fun let's just do this and it's just so bought in which it's funny because when you're in it

I wasn't like oh my gosh that's a character trait I have I'm I have ownership and I'm self-responsible and I'll you know I care for this company like Nick cares about it I never thought about that it was literally just like I'm so bought into this thing I'm just so fired up about it let's just build it and I think and then you have these blinders on like you've talked about before and then in 2021, maybe when we had like the first person maybe speak up and about hours or something, it was like, oh, okay. Like we're working up. We got to kind of formalize things now maybe.

Right. Yeah. What I'd love to talk about next is the evolution of your role over the years. Because originally when you were hired, you were just the BPN media director, like the only creative on the team. And we quickly realized that if we were going to keep investing into the business, and into the people, we should invest in the creative department

and the media team because we are a media business. Yep. So we started hiring more videographers and photographers, editors, designers, creatives in general. And then you moved into the BPN media director role, which was separate from,

separate and distinct from my content. Yep. You used that for a few years. And then, I guess in the last year, year and a half, you moved down to the BPN Media Director role and then came over and led all of my content as the creative director of everything that comes out of my channel and the stuff we produce. So your rule has evolved and I'd love to kind of talk about what you've

learned to that process. But before I hand it off, I want to say the one thing that I've learned over this entire experience has been a lot around leadership, obviously building a business, building a brand, the ends and out to that, leadership, people, relationships, trust, management. I've learned through this process that I believe I'm a strong leader,

but I'm not the best manager, which is one of the reasons I stepped out of the CEO role, and I manage very few people now. But another thing that I learned that I've made mistakes through in the past, and I've set you up for failure historically, is that I thought I knew it was best for people. And I thought I knew it was best for them without asking them what they wanted or what they thought was best for them.

So I moved you into the BPN Media Director role while I'm asking you what you want. I just assumed, okay, Jordan probably wants to be promoted and he wants some sort of leadership role. He wants to manage people. I'm going to elevate him in this new role where he's not actually creating anymore. He's just managing people and systems.

And I saw that destroy you, which is ultimately why you've moved back over to my team. But I've not only made that mistake with you, but I've made that mistake with a lot of other people in the business. Because I thought I knew what was best for them. But in reality, I didn't have the conversation with them. And that's why I think it's really important that communication is it's not a monologue. It's a dialogue.

It's a conversation between two people. And deciding mutually what is best for both parties for a successful outcome. I thought as a leader, the CEO of the business, I would just move people where I thought they wanted and needed to be, which was not the right thing to do. So I recognize that I've made those mistakes in the past, which is put you in compromised positions and put you in positions where you weren't thriving. You were barely surviving. So I'd love for you to explain that evolution and what you've learned through that process

of the different roles. And ultimately, how you ended up back into what you're doing now and how how you're that feels in comparison to where you were previously. Yeah. And I mean to kind of speak on what you were just talking about, like, you're just doing the best you knew. And our lack of self-awareness was, that sounds great. Like, more title, more people under me.

And I think as a young creative, that's what you dream of. I want to be the media director. I want to be the creative director. So naturally, when you have a young kid coming to your office and that's really fired up and is like, oh, I'm going to, like, can I get promoted? Can I, like, have more people where we're going to add to the team? like obviously we're just going to go you know and when you're in that startup phase it's like just these waves of momentum and we're all just making the best decisions we can and just going with

the flow of the day but i think the curse of that is you never take a step back and really think and have like more reflective conversations it's just kind of everything is on the offense and progress you know progressing adding to the team so i think from both fronts probably speaking for the people maybe the other people that maybe you feel like have been hurt by too. It's like, we thought that was the best deal as well. And then, you know, going off of that, like with the management leaders, I think I learned very quickly. I'm not a manager either. I like leading. I like getting people fired up about the mission to take, you know, take the field and this is what we're going to do. And then after the project's done, I love seeing people just be so

fulfilled and fired up about their work and passionate. But I don't like, hey, we got to hit these deadlines. Hey, what are you working on today? Hey, let's do a one-on-one meeting. especially with five people under you as on the team, which is like I think what I had when I transitioned back to your team. And Casey's talked about that. Casey and I Sets talked about that a lot where he's like, I hate working with big teams. He's tried to hire editors and stuff.

And so I think being very self-aware, I definitely agree with that as well. But I think like the biggest thing I've probably learned through it is, man, like no matter how much things suck and how burnout you feel and just, you know, things feel meaningless or you just feel like it's chaos every day. Everything is always working for your good. Like, it's as cliche as that sounds. Whether we see it in three months, we see it in three years, we see it in 30 years,

everything's always working for your good. No matter how bad things get, you know, life and in business, like, there's always a lesson to be learned. There's always going to be something good that comes out of it. So I think in the midst of that, as much as I could, without, you know, obviously at some point something has to change. But as much as I could, which is why I feel like it probably lasted for longer than it should have, is my mentality was just like, good. Like, I'm learning. I'm growing. I'm getting, you know, refined by this fire right now. And I was like, awesome. Like, you know, I enjoy it to a degree until, you know, you do self-destruct at some point. But

for me, that's like probably the biggest thing I've just come to grips with and just found so much peace in is like, and it's probably very rooted in faith and from a spiritual background is everything is always working for good. Like even when it sucks. Like that's when it's even better. Like because you're going to be such a better human and just value things differently and have a different perspective on the world and your character is going to be stronger when you go through hard things.

I think most creatives right now are like, how can I get to this point where everything is convenient and comfortable and I'm making good money and I'm leading people. And I like when it's kind of like, a little more chaotic sometimes because I'm like I'm going to come out on the other side of this and a year, five years, whatever that is. A lot better creative, a lot better human,

a better husband and son and friend. That just gives me like so much peace and honestly like so much joy when things are tough to a certain point. At some point things have to change. You can't completely surrender to it. But yeah. So to that point when I came back to your team,

we both kind of had this light ball moment of, yeah, When we made that change, we never had the conversation. It was like, you're just like, hey, you and Trey, go build BPN. Let's hire a young creative for me and we'll do our thing. And that's how it's going to go. Go film with these athletes. And we just, that's what we did.

We traveled all 2020, all 2021. As a team grew, we filmed with athletes. We were doing brand campaigns and ads and you were kind of doing your thing. And I think we kind of had it, I don't know if we had it all wrong the whole time, but I think there could have been a lot more like conversations around what is actually best for our health and the growth of BPN. So when I came back to your team, I was stoked because I also felt like even from a friendship level, we had kind of like grown apart a bit, whereas like kind of talking about earlier, like the early days, we were just like, it was like best friends.

And we were just having fun every day creating. And it was still a business and there's still like a healthy balance of friendship and business. But we definitely slowly grew apart where I was like, hey, I'm just doing thing with my team. And I report to Nick as like a CEO. But other that, we weren't really like tight as friends. So I was stoked when I came back to your team because like I feel like I'm back in Nick's corner again. And I know we've talked about this. And that's why I was so grateful because I'm like, I feel like I'm back in Nick's corner, get closer to him and Steph again. And it feels a little nostalgic like old times. And then beyond that, it was just like, it's a smaller team. I like growing Nick's personal brand. That's always what I've enjoyed more

than anything. So I was just like honestly just really stoked, but just like super grateful that you even were willing to make that change and that there was a place for me. And it wasn't just like, hey man, sorry you're burnt out, but like keep pushing. So yeah, I was just super grateful that you even were willing to make the change and that you kind of had the same lightball moment around the same time. I remember it started as like a joke. And then it just over a week, you were like, I think you'd text me late one night. You're like, I was kind of being serious. I was like, now it kind of was too. and then it just evolved into this and I think we're both in a lot healthier

place putting out a lot more meaningful work than we probably even anticipated. Yeah. I just had a lightball moment actually just now. So let's take this situation of you and me for example where we started building this thing together and it felt right and it was right and we're doing like really great things.

But we thought in order to get to the next level we had to change what we were doing. Yeah. So we made the split. Okay, you lead BPN's content. Yep. I'll stay on my content. We'll build in parallel.

Yep. But like BPN will now be able to have the expansion that it needs. Yep. Into this next phase. Yep. Which felt like the right step. But with every step forward, it actually almost led us into the wrong direction.

When we finally, three years later, had the realization, hey, we should just go back to what we were doing originally. That worked out pretty well. So we did that, and it's worked out really well since. BPN, here's my late ball moment, BPN is now going to that same thing, where we started making some decisions with BPN last couple years because we thought it's the steps and decisions we were supposed to make based off the business we thought we were supposed to build,

compared to our competitors and bigger business out there. And now I hope that the consumer in the audience sees this in 2024. But in the last couple weeks, we've had the realization as a business, hey, we should go back to what we were doing when it was really sinking and really working. Let's not worry about the business we think we're supposed to be or what everyone else is doing. let's go back to what works for us and we're proud of. And now we've shifted a lot of our systems and procedures and just brand messaging and mission back to the core of who BPN is.

And that's why I believe 2024 is going to feel and look a whole lot different than say 2003 did for the business. Because in the same way that we've self-corrected, BPN is now self-correcting based off of our values and the foundation of what is true and authentic to us, just like the creator economy, and we will reap the benefits of being true and authentic to ourselves. Yeah, and I think when someone hears like three years or even talking about BPN kind of getting off course this past year, it's like, how could you let it go that long?

But when you're building a business, like every day is like a blink of an eye or snap of a finger. I mean, it's just this tidal wave of good things. that you're just going with the momentum, I'm riding the wave, and you hardly ever have that time to, like, you hardly ever take the time to reflect, ask questions, pause. And I think to that point,

I would even add another key characteristic to that mental toughness is patience. Like, I feel like a lot of times when we've gotten off course, it's because we're going, we're going, and we think, like, oh, there's a little more growth we could get here, there's a little more we could do here,

and we kind of, like, rush it. When really, really, if we just, like, be patient, let things sit, have conversations, we probably could have offset some of those bigger mistakes we made if you want to call it that. Yeah, I would almost add patience to that like mental toughness characteristic. I mean, patience is tough because we want to be reactive. When things are happening and we're not happy with it, it's natural for us to come in and flip tables and be reactive. And that affects

downstream systems and people extensively. So you can't always be reactive. You have to be able to adapt and pivot, but you have to be patient in the way that kind of develops and unfolds. And that is such a hard thing to do because you want to go in and make change right away. But oftentimes you shouldn't or you can't necessarily. Yeah, I think it's probably the curse of being highly driven

and wanting to build something super special is you're just perpetually dissatisfied. Like, I feel like it's like for me for a while, that's probably one of the biggest things I've grown in over the last five years is actually learning to like celebrate my work and see it as good and see it as like enough. Rather than just constantly, I feel like I spend probably two years, honestly probably three years of my time of VPN,

just constantly dissatisfied with what I was doing. I feel like I was good to celebrating others. And I like, but for some reason I would just always, be dissatisfied and I'd probably be reactive and make changes that didn't need to be made because things were good, they were great. So I think that's like also another curse or another aspect of it is finding some, you know, some, not contentment, not complacency, but celebrating your work, being proud of it, seeing it like it's good, things are working and getting over that just perpetual, just dissatisfaction with everything.

It's something for me personally I struggled with. I struggled with that too. But I also, I think that is, that is a strength. Yeah, absolutely. And individuals who continue to grow and succeed. But it also can be a weakness. It can be a cancer. It can be self-destructing. It can destroy culture and organization and teams as well if it kind of gets on a hand.

Absolutely. So you need this little edge that is constantly telling you, you can do more. you can do better. I have that all the time. Yep. I'm in my head, I'm very unsatisfied with my work, where I'm at in life,

what I'm doing. I always think I can be doing better or more. And that puts a lot of pressure and strain on friendships, relationships, my wife, my family, my business. It really does. And it can and it has gotten out of control.

Yep. And what I find is often, oftentimes it's worse when I'm in the weeds and I don't take a second to step back and have big picture perspective. Because in our day, today, a lot of it's blocking and tackling. It doesn't matter for your business owner, entrepreneur, or not. Like in our life, there's things that are popping up and we're blocking and tackling, reacting and solving. Yep. There's problems arising all the time. And when you're constantly in the weeds of blocking, tackling, solving issues, it's a lot of movement, oftentimes with little progress.

The only way you make progress is by taking a step back and looking at everything from a larger perspective. So you can realistically move the puzzle pieces and the chess pieces on that board game of life strategically in a way that's going to help you progress and not just move. move. Yeah, it's like, and I think that comes with the territory of trying to create something that stands out, something that's meaningful, something that's original. Because I feel like for the people that are, you know, if you have two trails, taking that trail that everyone's on, and you know, it's going to take you to the mountaintop and you get the overlook and it's clean and it's, maybe it's paved and it's going to be an easy hike. But you're going to, you're going to reach some kind of success. You're going to make a quick buck, but it's going to maybe leave you feeling empty. And I feel like

when you try to be original and you try to be creative, when you try to do something meaningful, you're on this little game trail, and you're bushwhacking and you're in the weeds, like you said, and there's problems coming up and just chaos, and it's a little harder, I feel like, to step back and not be reactive. But again, but that's also what gets you that new trail, and people see you as unique and special,

and your brand is something that stands out. Hey, because when you're on a predictable, well-paved path, there's clarity ahead of you. Absolutely. you know where you're going. A blueprint. There's a blueprint. There's a blueprint.

When you're bushwhacking and cutting through grass, it's not clear in front of you. Yep. So you're in there. You're putting in the work. And from the outsider looking in, it looks stupid. It's,

dude, what are you doing? Like, there's a path right next to you. And it's slower. It's much slower. It's a lot longer. And eventually, you get to a point where you pave the path

and you have clarity or you break through that brush. But you've only gotten to that point because you've taken this uncleared path that had an unknown and it was unpredictable. But there's a lot of growth through that. A lot of fulfillment too. Extremely. Yeah, my worst fear would be taking the easy road.

I think we want to chop through the forest and reach the overlook and be fulfilled. That's what's unique about this job, this role, what we're doing is there is never a finish line. it's always evolving and growing. So you have to fall in love with the process. Yep. And enduring the process. Because if you don't fall in love with the process, you're not passionate about it,

you will burn out so quickly. Yep. Because as soon as one campaign or project wraps up, you're on to the next. Yep. And it's building upon building upon building. But that building never stops being built. Yep.

It's forever. Yeah. And that's kind of like going back to my point of, just learning like everything's working for your good you're growing through it like when when we're in this it's like good this is what like this is what how life's meant to be lived it's meant to be full of problems that are meant to we got to find solutions to at least business especially like we don't want the playbook like let's figure it out on our own like I think I used to you see it really stressed about that and now I'm like when something comes up or we finish a prep and it's like

what's next I used to oh my god just sweating now I'm like this is the fun part like I don't want to have it all figured out and just be convenient and comfortable. Like, this is the fun part when we're like, what's next? I think for a lot of people, scares the crap out of them and they take the clear path rather than the unknown and the what-ifs, but a lot more growth on that side. So I'm curious from your perspective, as I kind of mentioned in the beginning of this conversation, you have seen me at my highest of highs and my lowest of lows. You've seen me probably lower than anyone else in this business has seen me. And I want to know what you've learned personally, professionally, as a husband,

as eventually to be a father, a leader, entrepreneur, what you've learned by being around me through building the business. Good and bad. Yeah. Like truthfully, I want to know what you've learned. Man, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I think it's just life's a long journey. And like if you expect it to look like this,

you're going to be dead wrong. Like, it's going to be up and down and plateaus. And it's only been five years. That's the crazy part. It feels like we've been doing this for, I mean, obviously you've been building VPN for 12, but it feels like we've been working together and going through life together for 15, 20, at least from my shoes. And what I've seen you be able to go through.

And again, it might sound cliche or sound like a broken record. But for me, it's like life is just a long game. And if you get too high, too low, and I think this is applaud to you because I've never heard you in those moments of failure and shortcomings. and when things suck, make a gesture or say something that feels like you're worried about the short-term benefit. Like, nothing comes to mind, at least. Everything is about how does this affect things long-term? And, you know, you may get too worked up over it and not let it play out enough,

which is, if we're being truthful, that's where I sometimes like, hey, hey, it'll work out. You know, because I feel like your type of person that wants an answer. You want a solution to the problem. to figure it out. You want to understand why, like in the moment. And I think sometimes like, man, life is just long and it's going to be up and down. And we think it's just linear with our career and with marriage and having kids. But I feel like it's going to rock your world if you don't have a firm foundation. And you're like, all right, storms are coming. Things are good. Storms will come one day. Storms are here. It'll be good one day. I think just that level-headedness and just

realizing and playing the long game, as cliche as it sounds. for me is like one big thing I've learned. Because like you said, like there is no finish line to this. And I think the most unhealthy seasons of life that I've had is like looking for a finish line, looking for that thing to grasp on to of like when we get here and if this happens. But what about this? That always leads us so much just self-destruction and just such an unhealthy way of living. But when we're in that storm, we're in that chaos or failures even on the mountaintop

and highs like finishing Leadville and finishing projects. It's just like a level-headedness and just realizing like things won't always be good. Things won't always be bad. Like let's just like have fun, live life. Yeah, that's probably the biggest one. Makes me think of a sailboat. Yeah. I'm not a sailboat expert by any means, but I think that sailboats are really hard to tip over.

Just the way they're constructed. You always see them. They're like on their side, but they're not tipping over. Exactly. It's crazy. And so boat captains have to be. really level-headed. That's my thought process. So like for our honeymoon, Steph and I were in Cabo. Okay. And she booked a sailing excursion. And she thought it was going to be like this romantic bottle of wine, charcutory board on the sailboat. I think she was thinking of a catamaran maybe.

Yeah, yeah. But we took a sailboat excursion. Sometimes where you like lay in the front and you're like chilling and yeah. This was different. The fish are swimming under you. So we were, we had no experience as sailors going into this. And we're getting out there and they're telling us to put all of our equipment, all of our gear, like, stow it away and hold on to the ropes. We're thinking like, what's, what's going on? What's about to happen? All of a sudden, like, they change the direction of the sails and it grabs this wind.

And our sailboat literally goes like parallel with the water. Dude, it's crazy. We thought we were tipping over. So Steph and I, we're, We're like, oh my gosh, when our honeymoon, we're about to die. We're like, Steph's screaming. I'm freaking out. I'm trying to keep it pretty chill, but I'm wrapping this rope around my arm thinking,

we're about to, we're about to tip over. We're done. And I look back at the captain, and he's just chilling. He's been through this storm. He's been through this sail many times before. He is an experienced sailor at sea. Or it doesn't phase him any longer. He knows what to expect.

He can battle the resistance and the obstacles and the struggle. But for the person who is sailing the first time or first couple times, it's scary. It's very intimidating. And you think you're about to die. But through repetition and through patience and through experience and through years, you become so adaptable through the storms. you become so adaptable through the lowest of loaves and the highest of highs and the swings aren't swings as much as anymore where you can stay level set and steady in a more effective and efficient way. That's how I kind of view these past couple years for me where these things that used to rock my boat and flip me over don't anymore because I've been exposed to that stimulus more frequently and with more repetition.

So I don't hit the lowest of lows as much as I used to. I don't hit the highest of highs as much as I used to. But you've seen me like times where I've been distraught. Yep. And low and hurt and angry. And I think personally I've grown a lot in this past year. Obviously faith has become a more critical and important part of my life in this past year. And I've really leaned on faith more.

and I've become a stronger believer this past year, which I know has helped me tremendously. But I can feel that I've grown a lot in this last year where the things that used to rock my world and throw me over the edge and make me react aren't anymore because I now see the bigger picture. That as much as I plan, God laughs. And we can't plan for everything,

but we have to be able to adapt and pivot and grow through that. and that's how you keep moving forward. And through it, you can actually enjoy the process and you're not just sucking the entire time. Yeah. I think like the sailboat could almost be an analogy where like the captain's kind of like God, he just watches us squirming and panicking.

He's like, we've been through this before. Like, you're going to be all right. He laughs. Even if the sailboat tips, like, I'll walk on water. There'll probably be a buoy. Like, you'll be all right. You'll learn to swim. And so obviously I say that very humbly

because there's obviously like really devastating things that people go through in life. And even when, you know, you get hit with bad things, you know, we're not saying we're perfect where it's like, oh, yeah, it's okay. Like, absolutely not. There's, you might be distraught for a day, a week, a month, but eventually this perspective comes back that things are working for my good. This life's a long journey. And at the end of the day, like when you have a faith, a strong foundation build on this strong rock, it's like God's bigger plan is at work. I'll be okay. And yeah, that's so much peace in that, I think.

So much joy that even comes through some of that, like, trouble as well. Because you realize, like, I'm going to come out on the other side, a way better person. When things are good, you're not really growing. That's true. Yeah. I mean, that's been the most rewarding part about building this business. As we've built this business, we've gone through a lot of hardship. Yep.

We've, many times we've questioned what we're doing and why we're doing it and how we're doing it, but it's because we care. Yep. And if you won't care about what you're doing or how it impacts the people in your immediate life or by the means in which it's reaching and touching people,

then it probably doesn't have much meaning in your life as a whole. And it's probably not supposed to be there. But this journey for me at least has been so rewarding. Likewise. I cannot imagine a life without the, experience. And what even blows my mind even more is, here we are sitting in the beginning of 2024, there's a whole other chapter.

Dude, we're still so young. You're what, 33? I'm 33. I'm 26. Like, we have so much to learn. We're going to be laughing at this podcast in like three years. That's the best part. That's the best part.

That's the part that you have to find joy in knowing that, oh, we're going to look back of this in three years. I was like, what do we think we knew? That's life. You mentioned earlier about like when you moved down to Texas and you're explaining to Michaela's family about like the business. Yep. It's like $5 million in revenue and protein powder. Protein powder, warehouse, all these things.

I remember vividly during those years, 2017, 2018, 2019, pulling a team together, small team. Yeah. Pulling team together saying, guys, we're one of the biggest supplement companies in the world right. now. And I believed it. Yeah. I believed it when I started. I didn't know. It's like, I had just five million. I was crushing. I thought to myself

because for me building was head down. Yep. And just build, build. And I'm thinking, we're on the top right now. We're one of the big dogs. Then I got slapped across the head and realized you're not one of the big dogs. It's like every good founders had that delusion though. Like you watch

these documentaries. You watch the social network. And at first, it sounds like delusion to everyone and until you actually accomplish it, your timetable might have just been a little off. You got to believe. Yep. You got to believe in what you're doing. Absolutely. And that's how you have longevity. Yep. In your work. Yep. I mean, how much does that play in for you of your care for the craft and the mission by what you are creating? It's not just a job. You can go create videos anywhere, but how much does the mission impact the work that you're doing and the passion behind what you're creating? It's everything.

I've always told my wife, Michaela, I'm like, the camera right now is just, and, you know, you know, this laptop that I added on is just a medium to which I get to, you know, make work that fulfills me. But one day it might be, I mean, who knows? It might be plumbing. I don't know. But to me, that's just a medium. But if I'm not doing something that has a strong mission, a mission that doesn't need to change the world, but it needs to add and be a positive light in the world, then like I would be, that's my work. Like, that's one of my biggest fears is like working a job that I don't feel like has any just impact. I'm not utilizing the talents and the gifts and the abilities God's given me to, you know, carry this mission into the world and,

like, and just help it and be a positive, you know, light in it. And I think that's probably a massive area I've grown in over the last five years, whereas when I started, I saw creative work is like, what's the coolest shots I can get? How can I edit this? And what's new transitions I can learn in color? And over the last five years, I mean, people change a lot in five years as humans. But, I mean, especially if you're in the creative field and you're doing creative work, I would hope in five years you've changed a lot and matured and evolved. And my perspective now is like, a lot of times I probably don't care about those things to a fault. Like, I don't care what gear we use. I don't care, you know, what the color looks like. Like it all comes back to how is it going to make people feel on the other end of the,

you know, there's viewers on the other end of this phone or laptop or TV, whatever they're watching it on. How's it going to make them feel? And I think that has been this like empathy. that's probably been rooted in me, whereas before it was all about me and the cloud I could get and building BPN and people were like, oh, who's making this stuff? Now it's like, I don't care if anyone knows who's making the work that gets put out by you, but I want to know how does it make them feel? Like, does it shift their perspective on things in life? Did it brighten their day? Did it make them cry? Did it make them laugh? That's like the mission for me. And if I'm not doing that, like, I don't care about the camera or the techniques or the transitions or the type of editing. the type of computers we use. Like, that's what I'm, like, rooted in now. And I think that's been, like, an evolution over five years for sure. I always known, like, I care about story first and things like that, but it's always for my own benefit it felt like, for my own clout.

Now it's, like, having that deep empathy for people on the other end of the screen that if they're going to take 30 minutes, 30 seconds out of their day to watch something we put out, I want to make sure it's not bland and it's powerful and meaningful. and they take something away from it, especially in a creator economy that is a lot of bland noise. Of all the content that you've worked on and created in the past couple years,

what piece are you most proud of? Probably the treadmill. Naked treadmill. Probably you're running naked on the treadmill. No, I was kidding. Bring it back. That's such a good question. I mean, there's so many pieces I'm so proud of.

And I obviously can't take an ounce of credit, like, without our just amazing team on the BPN side and now on NBF with Ian and with Everett and the people that come on to help, like, these videos wouldn't be half of what they are. So I'm proud of us as a team as a whole. But, I mean, I go back to Leadville, man. Like, that was like our first, as a team, our first real documentary with interviews. with multiple interviews, five interviews, with 20 hours of footage, just laying in front of us. And me and Tyler had posted notes and we were like, and we were just thinking, all right, what's the story we're going to tell? We can go a lot of ways with this. We were new. Like, we had never done a documentary, especially in eight weeks. Like, every time we thought

of documentaries and one day we were going to work on docs and people we knew that did work on them, it takes two years to come out. And, you know, we knew like going in, obviously, we would turn this around quick. But man, I think that one is like the most proud because we just did not have any experience in that field. We had not filmed anything, I believe, with ultra running. Nothing in the mountains of Colorado. So we had to plan and produce this thing as well and route our team. And hey, we got to hit these marks and these objectives at this time. At three in the morning, we're all tired. That was one component. And then even just calling the shots on how do we tell this story? Like, what gear do we use? Who needs? What lenses and what interviews do we need to get? What sound bites do we

do we need to get while we're tired and it's two in the morning and you know, Steph's making Nick a English muffin? Do we need her to talk and trying to direct and guide a team of six people out there filming? That was totally new. I remember I remember we had a team meeting the night before and we just got done scouting all day and kind of trying to get a feel for the route and the course. And I remember we had this team meeting and I had like this word doc and was running the team on where to be and win and it felt like such a fraud. I was like they're probably like this dude's over prepared. This guy's doing way too much or this is not the best plan of attack. We need to be doing this, this and this. But the team trusted me and I trusted them also to like collaborate and put in their input

as well. And I think for all of that to come together, all these people had never worked on a project like this was such and just a foreign element, a new story we've never told. interviewing people we've never interviewed that aren't used to being on camera. Your first ultra, your first ultra, for that to come together and be the video how it was. And in an eight weeks edit that, just me and Tyler, like, in a dark room,

dude, how do you not be proud of that? And the crazy part is, like, when it came out, I was still in that just perpetual dissatisfactions. I was like, oh, we could have done this and this. And I didn't even feel like I could celebrate it, even though we had a premiere night, a movie theater, and you gave an amazing speech, and we're so grateful. still was like for my own, you know, part, I would see the sequences I edited. And I was like,

I suck. I can't even celebrate it. So that's why I'm probably going on about how proud I am of it now, because I feel like I've never been like actually proud of it until probably this last year when I was like reflecting and, hey, you need to celebrate your work a little more. I mean, that film had some incredible impact. Yeah. That's another reason to be really proud. On a lot of different people in places. Yeah. I mean, I would argue. that it changed the trajectory of what the Leadville race series is. A lot of people have now found out about Leadville because of that doc. It also inspired so many people through the message of more than the miles

and that you can go really fast by yourself, but you can go so much further together. And it captured the essence of what a team looks like and can be. And it motivated a lot of people to just... sign up and commit for something hard that scares them. Yeah. And they never thought they could do. I mean, it has changed lives. It has saved lives.

That one film. What I always find interesting about YouTube and these docs that you guys work on, as you mentioned, most of these docs that come out, people are working on it for two plus years. Yeah. Two plus years, which is like the standard. Yeah. But when we document something, say,

race on social, people expect that doc to be out the next week. We can't get it out quick enough. Can't get it out quick enough. So I don't think people understand what goes into that production process, that editing process, and how intensive it is. And to turn around on doc like that in eight weeks is absolutely incredible. To turn around the CIM video in four weeks, less than four weeks, realistically, three weeks, was absolutely incredible. Yeah.

And you and Ian were working on that nonstop every single day, morning, day, and night to get it out. So a lot of people watch these videos. They think, oh, they could have turned that around in like 24 hours. I wish. I wish we could. There's some work that goes in. Yep. And I don't take that lightly.

The BPN team doesn't take that lately. So when that Leadville dock launched knowing how much. time, effort, energy, resources, money, people went into it. Yeah. That's why we had to rent the theater and showcase. Yeah. And that's why it's reached as many people as it has today. And it's still growing.

It's a powerful piece. I would say that's my favorite piece that you've done. Yeah. Since joining BPN. But then we've launched all these pieces recently that you've worked on. The feedback has been absolutely incredible, like the last man standing doc. The CIM doc, a CIM video that we just released a few days ago, I mean, that's receiving feedback like we've never seen before.

Yep. I think you said it best, too. And I think kind of a light bulb moment or a moment I wish I could just go back and even clarify more is like, I feel like the reason we're so proud of this is because it's bigger than us. Like we're not proud of it because, you know, it actually, like all those reasons, yes, we're proud of it. But at the end of the day, when we're most proud of it is when we see this feedback and when we see people like, this changed my life.

I signed up for this race because of this. I'm a better husband or wife or father, mother because of this. That's when I'm like, I don't even care if there's so now, again, healthy Jordan, not younger creative Jordan. Now I get beyond myself. I'm like, I don't care if there was 10 things I would have done differently in that video. Or if I'd had two more weeks just to touch it up a little bit, when I get feedback, like that, it's like, that's what it's about. I could care less about if I would have tweaked to color a little bit or made it sound a little better. It's like, if those people aren't calling it out and it's not

distracting to them, like, I'm good. Like, I don't care about like what my creative buddies have to say. Right. So whereas old Jordan used to, even during Leadville, that's probably why I was in that mindset because I wasn't making it about something bigger than me, whereas now everything we do, all the conversations we have are about something bigger than us. Like, how are people going to actually receive this? Will this be worth people's time? Is it remarkable enough for someone to sit down and watch this? People's lives are busy. We have families, especially your audience now. That's probably why we both relate to Donald Miller content. Yeah. And the seven part framework that he's established and creating the lens of being a guide as opposed to a hero. For me, that's what the Leadville 100,

more than Miles Doc was. It was us positioning ourselves as a guide for the hero. The hero was the audience who watched this film. And it was so well done in that video and all the videos you've done since that. Thanks.

And coming from that angle and approach and perspective, we both know it's the right place to be coming from. So when it's received in that same way, feels really good. I wish people could see how much doesn't go into these videos.

like how many hard choices we have to make of like Leadville, Last Man, CIM, all these, you know, marathons, how many cool shots we have, how many cool sound bites we have. But my role as like your director, and I know I've made a lot of our editors and people on the creative team mad, is to trim the fat. And if it doesn't add value to people, if it doesn't feel like people are going to take something away from, if it doesn't add to the story, evoke more emotion. But it doesn't need to be in there. And I mean, we've, I fought with Craves and our team tooth and nail of like, well, this shot, we hiked up this hill and got this.

And I'm like, Tim from Idaho that watching this, he doesn't care. And you're wasting his time. Like, I think that's probably one of the hardest parts of my job is like actually what's not in the videos to value and respect and have empathy on people that are watching these videos. How did you use to describe it was kill your? Oh, God. I don't know if I could say it. I heard it from another editor, but essentially it was like kill your babies. Essentially, you become so romantic and so attached to shots and edits that, you know,

you've spent so much time on. It was your idea. You're so attached to it. You think it's going to be so cool and people are going to hype it up. And the best creatives, the best editors know how to kill that. And that's probably been the toughest part of my job over the last five years because not only in specific videos, but campaigns, ads, you know, projects where we have a really cool athlete has a really cool story. And it's like, it just doesn't fit right now. And so, yeah, that or trim the fat is another way, I say it, which is kill everything that doesn't add to the story.

I mean, that's how you tell the best story, though. Yep. And that's where it comes back to. It has to be bigger than you. If you're doing it for the clout and for people. able to hype you up and ask who edited this and, you know, they see the editor tagged and they hype you up and you get all the comments. It's not what it's about. Yeah. Yeah. Well, dude, like I said, this was a long time coming. It's honestly a great conversation. It's great.

And amazing insight into how our lives have changed. Our lives have changed a lot. Yeah, I feel like we need like multiple podcasts to process it and unpack it. A therapy session. Essentially is what this was. Yeah, I mean, like, this was just the lens to creative and business. But there's been personal life alongside all of these evolutions and changes and hardships as well. And seeing each other go through that, we learn and we grow. Yep. But I know that a lot of people take a lot away from this episode, especially young creatives. Yeah. Or people fighting their resistance to try and plan for their life every step of the way and realizing that you can only plan so much and you have to be able to adapt as God laughs at you because he's a greater plan.

He's going to guide you in that direction. You can resist and fight it all you want. Yep. You're going there whether you like it or not. Yep. Surrender to it. Yeah. Well, thank you for have me on and thank you for just allow me to be part of the team.

And so grateful to be a part of the team and get to come into this office. every day or even if I'm working from home for the day, just feel fired up about my job. And I think a lot of people take that for granted, especially in today's world with so much opportunity. And I'm just grateful for where I'm at right now. Appreciate you, man. Absolutely.