The Nick Bare Podcast - 070: Preparing For Western States 100, Being Patient In Your Weakness and The Power Of Hope With Sally McRae

Episode Date: June 10, 2024

In today's podcast, I am sitting down with my friend and legendary ultra runner, Sally McRae. Sally most recently won the Moab 240 after completing the "Grand Slam of 200s." She's admired for her mental fortitude, hardcore training tactics, and ability to push through extreme discomfort. Whenever I have the opportunity to talk with Sally,  it is not only insightful but also uplifting. I'm sure you will feel the same after listening. Save 10% at BPN Supps: https://bit.ly/nickbare10audio Follow for more:  IG: https://www.instagram.com/nickbarefitness/ YT: https://www.youtube.com/@nickbarefitness Keep up with Sally:IG: https://www.instagram.com/yellowrunner/ YT: https://www.youtube.com/@sallymcraestrength Topics: 0:00 Intro 1:19 Welcome 1:56 Sally’s Go Gel launch 6:21 Sally gearing up for Western States 15:23 Being patient in your weakness 30:10 What are you going to focus on? 40:23 A champion mindset 50:54 Hyperfocusing on detail during training 1:03:40 Setting boundaries 1:16:44 Keeping belief through failure 1:34:07 Pacing Sally at Western States 1:35:57 Inspiring through content

I had to tell myself, you just have to be patient in your weakness. You have to be patient and know that even though you feel weak right here, it doesn't mean you are weak. This just isn't your strength, but you can move through it, and there's going to come a time where your strength's going to shine. It is my responsibility to always give my best. And giving my best means I don't show up on a day to train, and I don't step onto the trail and think, man, I really hope.

that I get fifth place. You shouldn't wait until you're the champion to behave like one. And I think that can be a game changer for people. You know, what if you were the best marathoner in the world? Would you train differently because you had that title?

You actually discover the people that really love you when you are living your life that's most authentic to you. And living your life most authentic to you is going after the things that you were meant to do. If you were to put it all on the table, all the best advice, all the best books, all the greatest thinkers, it's going to come down to just a few of the same things.

Hard consistent work year after year and believing in that goal and never giving up. This is how I know you're on the podcast is because when you're on the podcast, it's my least amount of notes for any guest. So good. I have five lines. which was not even necessary to write down because I know it's going to be a very casual, organic, natural conversation. It's my favorite.

I love having conversations with you, Nick. Well, I appreciate that. Like, I really do. I think we just boom, boom, boom, have a lot of the same beliefs of messaging. And I think it's always good conversation. I agree. Yeah. So tell me, you just landed in Austin.

Just landed. What are we doing here? Just landed like an hour ago. We are here for the launch. of the new go gel. Yep. Your go gel. Mango flavored.

You know, I thought it was really cool. I've told you this many times. You are an incredible, I mean, the company BPN that you created has been my favorite company to work with. You make everything great and exciting. And when you said, hey, we want to make another flavor of a gel, what flavor would you like? I thought, seriously, that's so cool.

Like mango, I love everything. mango. And so, yeah, it's been an honor to be a part of the process of creating something to fuel athletes. Yes. But yeah, we're celebrating that. I don't know a lot of companies that do that. So you flew out my whole family. They love Austin. Actually, McKenzie's getting a workout in, and then I think they're going to go thrift store shopping because Isaiah and McKenzie love to go thrift store shopping. But the line. Right, so right downtown. Yeah, right in downtown.

We're going, you guys plan a stellar dinner tonight. Yep. Celebrating. So it's his place, I think it's called the Peach Social House. Okay. Which is affiliated with one of my favorite restaurants, the Peach Tortilla. Yes. I feel like I've heard you talk about this.

You're a foodie. I'm a huge foodie. I love food. I don't think of as much as a foodie of you because I don't know ingredients or how to cook as well as you do. I don't think I do. Like the way you talk about cooking and the appreciation for food, I remember when we came to Nashville and you had a loaf of sourdough that you were so excited about. Yes. So you genuinely appreciate every aspect of food and the way it's prepared.

I do. Yeah. Especially going out to dinner. Like tonight, good food brings people together. Yes. So the peach tortilla, they actually have one of their locations in the Austin airport. Oh. So when Steph and I are traveling to and from, we'll stop there because you can get a bowl of like just white rice and either beef or chicken, avocado, very clean, healthy source.

Tonight they're doing a taco bar by peach tortilla. Really good food. I love tacos. So we'll do some speeches tonight. Nice. We'll celebrate the. Wait, am I doing a speech? You and I are both in speeches.

And I can go off the cuff with the speech. Like, you know me. Oh, I mean, that's mine too. Let's go. There's no structure to it. I love it. Just hyping people up. Yes.

Celebrating you and the collaboration with BPN on the Mango GoGel. Tomorrow morning, we're hosting a run downtown to bring the community together. Love it. And then we're launching the GoGel Monday, June 3rd, the Yellow Runner, Mango, Go, Joe. And that's what this whole weekend is all about. Yeah. Huge honor to be a part of anything that you create, Nick. And I appreciate you always including my family. Absolutely. That's really cool. So when you guys were in Nashville a few months ago visiting us, this is a side story, but we went to that one restaurant.

Yes. Josephine's. Yes. They actually closed down. No. That place was so good. It was so good. But apparently they got price gouged out of rent, couldn't afford rent anymore because the 12 south area of Nashville was becoming so popular and expensive. No longer there. That is so sad.

I know. It was good food. It was very good food. I don't even remember sitting around the table. Gosh, I felt like we had such good conversation. It was great conversation. It was like right away conversation. I didn't see you maybe like in five or six months because you guys had moved.

So the whole family like we came out. And I don't even telling out of this after the night was over. I was like, man, I love talking Nick. Like, we can talk about anything. Half of it you can't ever podcast about. And that's how you know it's good conversation. For sure. There'd be criticism.

Oh, my gosh. And hate. Maybe we should podcast about that. Okay. So right now, you are three-ish weeks out from Western States. Yeah. about 27 days. 27 days out.

Let's talk about that. What this race means to you, what you're going for, the goal. I have the opportunity to pace you. Yeah. I'm so freaking stoked about that. I can't wait for.

Is this the first time that you are saying that? Is this the first time people will hear that you say that? I mentioned it on the podcast with Harvey Lewis. Okay. And then Harvey tried to get me to do all these. races with them. I was like, Harvey, I'm moving my family from Tennessee back to Texas. I love Harvey. I can't race right now. Yeah. But let's talk about it. Let's talk about Western States. Why is this race mean so much for you? Western States, it's the oldest, most prestigious

100-mileer in the nation. And it happens to be the most competitive in the world, probably next to UTMB, Ultra Chelle Dumont Blanc over in France. But Western States is, you know, you know you're going to get good competitive racing, but there is a magic about it that people say. You know, Western States is magical one, the support from the community, the volunteers. there's a lot of people who come out just to spectate it. What I learned early on in my career is if you get in the top 10 at Western States, it can change the course of your career.

So if you get in the top 10 and you don't have a sponsor many times, you're sponsored within that week. It's a huge honor to be in the top 10 at Western States. It's mainly because it's so cool. competitive so so deep and not all the races have so much competition um on each side and why why is it so competitive um when did that start it could be because it's the oldest race it's been around the longest most well known so as the sport began to grow it was one of the few and so that's one of the ones that that people would do um the the the history of legends that have come

out of Western states. I mean, our best runners in the history of the sport have all won Western states and have run Western states multiple times. So I think that's a piece of it, too. Just the history and the stories of our sport are very rich at Western states. And it's a race for those of you listening that aren't familiar with it. It starts in Olympic Valley just outside of Tahoe. It's a point-to-point-100-mile race.

You start at altitude, roughly like 6,000 feet, climb up a ski lift, you up the side of a mountain. And you're in the high, rugged country for the first 30 miles. And then you start to descend into some wicked hot canyons that can get, you know, 100 degrees. Then you climb out of these canyons and you get to the iconic, one of the most iconic aid stations, I think, in all of ultra running Forest Hill. it's mile 60 and it's a long aid station and you know you might have a thousand people spectating crews pacers volunteers long long tables of food as runners come in and some people say that's where western states where the racing actually starts and which is pretty exciting to watch some say it starts at green gate which is mile 80 but

the race is a point to point. It runs all the way to Auburn. It ends on a track at Plaster High School. That's cool. So what's unique about it is in order to race Western states, you have to train to be strong in every discipline of the sport. See, in ultra running, there's so many different types of events and so much that you can focus on as far as like what strength you might have. So if you're really good at running at altitude, you might pick a race like Leadville. If you live at altitude, you're going to do well at an altitude race. But then there's other hundreds that are run on in the track. It's just around an oval, flat, smooth surface. Other races have really big climbing like hard rock. You know, you're climbing,

you know, almost 40,000 feet of climbing in that race. You're a great mountain climber. You're going to do well there. And so a lot of times athletes will pick, you know, what race they will. would really prefer to do what plays to their strength. Western states, you have to be good at all of it. There's over 20,000 feet of climbing and descending, and the descending kind of beats you up a little bit more. There's altitude for the first 30 miles. And then there's extreme heat. And then you have to be able to run pretty fast for the last 38 miles. Nick, this is where you're going to come in. Forest Hill is where Nick will be pacing me. That's the start. That is where the race really takes a turn. The excitement starts, you start running on the road, drop in to the

cany's run down to the American River. There is iconic pictures and images of people crossing the American River. Depending on how high the water is, you either cross by pulling on a rope or you get into a boat and you cross on the other side. So I'm super excited to take you on that journey from Forest Hill down into the canyons. We'll descend to the river. We'll cross the river together. We climb two miles out of the river up to Greengate, up to mile 80. What kind of pace do you think you'll be holding there?

Oh, man. I love that question because that's the question I would ask all the time when I first started ultra running. And I think that, you know, 100 mile races have so many very very very very very. variables that it is hard to pinpoint a pace at any given time. You know, you look at like UTMB and it's like, all right, we got like 36,000 feet of climbing. And that's going to be run at a different pace than Western states with 20,000 feet of climbing and a lot of heat. So last year, the race was considered a cold year. Lots of snow. It was a lot colder throughout the race. the race is going to run a lot faster.

This year, depending on the heat, is where you can kind of like feel out maybe the pace that you're going to run. Really, it's kind of shooting for hours. So do you want to run a sub 20, sub 19, 18, 17? My hope is that I run the best race that I've ever run there. So I've done Western States three times. I was finishing the top two twice. I've never broken 20 hours.

And that year that I ran in seventh place, so that was 2015. So that was nine years ago. It was a very hot year. And that's partly why I did so well. I actually ran the last, the back half of the course, the last 38 miles. I was the second fastest of all the women, but I was seventh. So my strength was the heat and the end. But my weakness was the beginning of the race.

So I think that's what's so fascinating. about this race is, you know, everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, and they can come out throughout the race because the race has all the variables. It's not just a climbing race. It's not just an altitude race or just a hot race or just a race if you have leg speed. You have to have, be good at all those things. And so your strengths are to come out at different times. So the three years that I did Western States, I was never in the top 10 coming into the first big aid station, which is Robinson Flat, mile 30, it's in the middle of the forest. There's hundreds of people, cruise everywhere.

It's so amazing. Like you're back in high country in this forest. And you come into mile 30. And a lot of times they say, if you're not in the top 10 by mile 30, you won't be in the top 10. And the race has changed over the years. But I never was in the top 10 at mile 30. I always was a lot better the last half of the course. And I just hunted people down.

So this year, as I started training for it, I thought, okay, I know what my weaknesses are. I've done the race three times. I know where I can improve and what I want to do. What are those weaknesses? What were those weaknesses? So my weaknesses is always steep climbs at altitude. And it's interesting because it's also one of my favorite things to do. it's incredibly humbling to climb up the side of a mountain and to feel all of your body weight.

I have a little bit of a breathing problem. So typically I don't choose races where I'm at altitude for a long time. Like I'm usually good like five, six hours. But after that, I have a lot of problems. The movie we did last year, Moab 240, it opens up with, it's probably the first time ever in my career. But you can hear my breathing. I'm at mile 200, 40 miles to go, and there's two girls chasing me. And I can barely get a breath out. I can barely get a breath in. So that was just a result of being up at altitude for a long time and in the cold. My lungs exasperate, I have a little bit of

some contortion in my, in my sternum that my lungs don't open up to 100%. And then I have a little bit of asthma. I don't take an inhaler, but, you know, that's just something I've always known, never made an excuse. I don't like talking about it very much. But Mob was like, it was so public for me and probably one of the scariest moments like in my career. But I've known that about myself. And so the race starts at altitude going up the side of a mountain in Olympic Valley. It's how Western States start. So, you know, in 2014, my first year racing it. That was my first introduction, you know, to the race, to the course. And I had to tell myself, you had just have to be patient in your weakness. You have to be patient

and know that even though you feel weak right here, it doesn't mean you are weak. This just isn't your strength, but you can move through it. And there's going to come a time where your strength's going to shine. And I think that the second year I ran it, I had that confidence going in because I knew the course and I understood how it flowed and I understood where I could be at my strongest and again I had to be patient in that I had to wait and just climb patiently those first 30 miles and then you know let the other side of me come out the rest of the race have you talked much about that the fact of being patient in your weakness that's I think it's super powerful yeah Be patient in your weakness.

As you said that, I was kind of just taking inventory of my weaknesses in life. And then am I patient in them or am I rushing through them to exhibit and highlight some of my strengths? Because it's really easy to play to our strengths and skip over our weaknesses or skate around our weaknesses. But to be patient and kind of just sit in our weakness, that's powerful. Well, you learn a lot. I think in the business world, in, you know, climbing the ladder, even socially, you'll hear people say, don't ever expose your weaknesses. Don't let people know what your weakness is. And I do understand that, but I think it's very easy to also lean into our pride, into our insecurities, and not even being authentic in who we are. or even stepping away from things that we think are going to highlight our weakness because we don't want people to see our weakness. And so we don't take chances. We don't step out in bravery and courage because if we spend so much time on I can't let people see my weaknesses, what we're

actually doing is spending a lot of time on trying to please people because the truth is, if you are human, you have weakness because every human is imperfect. And I have learned over the very long course of my athletic career that embracing and even verbally saying like, yeah, I am a mountain runner, but I'm actually, I actually have to work exponentially harder at running up a mountain. And whether that's, I carry more muscle mass and it's just science, I'm a bigger body. And so when I get next to girls that are literally 30 and 40 pounds lighter than me, like, yeah, they might have a little bit easier time going up. I hold on to the fact that, but when I go downhill, watch out.

Like, I never have IT ban injuries. Like my quads are strong, very fast on going down a mountain. It's holding both in your hand and appreciating, one, this weakness of mine, the side that I always have to be working on is what keeps me coming back to my work. It's what keeps me in a state of like, hey, you should stay humble in your work because you haven't perfected it, you're not the strongest in it, and it's something I will always be aware of for my entire career. I will respect the hard work that goes in to being the best of the best. And I also respect that from the time I was born, that my body is not perfect,

and it will never operate perfectly. But I'm given opportunity every day I go out to train to work on my weaknesses and strengthen even more my strengths. And I think that has always been a perfect recipe in my training. One of the things, I think you and I had talked about it after I ran bad water, I was the first time you and I podcasted. And, you know, I didn't get bad water right the first time I did. It was 2018. I was very prideful as I stood on the line.

I was like, dude, I'm winning this race. I'm so fit. Nobody trained as hard as I did. I did. And I came in seventh. I made a lot of mistakes in that race. And that was the only way that I actually was able to get better is, was owning my mistakes, owning the things that I did wrong, and not respecting the journey that was ahead of me. And so I took those things. And when I came back in 2021, I went out to the course every week in the six, seven weeks leading up to the race. and I would go on these long runs.

I'd do like three, four day training camps on the bad water course. And while I would run, I would think about my strengths and my weaknesses. And I would also think about all the things that could potentially happen on race day that one, I didn't want to be surprised by. I don't want to be afraid of. I didn't want to focus on, I didn't want those things to have great focus. So like, yeah, if I got blisters, if I was throwing up, if my intestines were upset. Sally, what are you going to do? What are you going to do when those things happen? Because

these happen regardless of how fit you are. You could be the fittest person, but if you're throwing up your nutrition, you're not moving very fast, especially the longer the race goes. And so ultimately what happened in 2021 was I actually didn't have that much better of, like my body didn't feel that much better. But I knew how to work through the situations that plugged me better. They didn't scare me. I mean, I had diarrhea the whole race. Like, I didn't, but I planned for those things. I, I was aware of those things. I accepted that this could be a possibility. And when it happened, I remember the first time when it hit me, it was like mile 14. And I came up to my crew and I was like, this, what's going on? This might be with me the entire race.

But I feel amazing. My legs are strong. And my mind. is strong and we're going to win this race. And so I think that it's very easy as athletes or whatever it is we're pursuing in life to tell ourselves, well, this has always been my weakness. And so I need to stay in this box because according to society or according to my past critics, I don't look a certain way. I don't operate a certain way. I've always kind of been clumsy in this way. And so I probably shouldn't proceed after that goal. or in this way because that's a weakness of mine. But I just don't believe it.

I think our weaknesses are what keep us humble in our work. And over time, you're obviously going to get better. You're going to strengthen the thing that you're weak in. But if we ignore it and just sit in it in a way that's like, I'm just weak in that and I'm embarrassed of it and I'm going to hide it. And I don't want anyone to ever see it. So I'm only going to do the things that make me look good. I think we're missing out on a whole other side of our life.

And, you know, I just came back from training on the Western States trial. I was there the last three days. And it was a really hard training block for me. And I actually contacted my coach in the airport. This is my fourth time. I put together training blocks, fourth time up on the course. Because for me, I don't live a typical life of a professional athlete. I have kids. I run a business. I'm very proud of those things. This isn't like, oh, I wish I could just sleep in all morning, play in the mountains all day and, you know, cook organic food for myself and take two naps and spend two hours of the recovery. Like I don't long for that. I love the life that I have. I love that I can create and build something outside of being a runner. And but I contacted my coach and I said,

you know, that was a really hard training block. And I actually was discouraged. I was, I was discouraged on day two. And I had this run where I had to go out for like, it was like 18 miles out, 18 miles back, it was like 10,000 feet of climbing. Like, it was really hard. And it was hot. And I was dressed in long sleeves and like I was not like purposely made this at a heavy pack because I didn't run with anyone and have crew. So I have like this 12 pound pack. I have layers on. and I'm going, it's a run called double canyons. And it's in and out of some of the toughest climbs in the course. And I just felt tired on the way out.

And I was like, man, every step feels hard. I know I've been put in good training, but it was really easy for me to let the idea and the thoughts of like, well, yeah, you're just not a, you're not the strongest climber out here. Like, this is the section where you're going to get past, Sally. Like, this is a section where you're going to get past, Sally. this is a section where you're going to be weak. And I remember having to tell myself, Sally, is that what you want to focus on?

Is that the script that we're going to, is that what you want to think about? And then saying, no, I don't want to think about this. I want to think about how I have come out here and I put in the time to work on my weaknesses because this is where I feel so humbled. I've been in this sport for so long and I still feel the areas that I'm weak. but that also gives me hope that I can also still strengthen myself. I can still get better. And I think that's a big part of the drive of why I'm always excited to work. There's always something I can work on. And going to Western State three, Western States three times, the third time I went was the biggest heartbreak because I went the third year, the fittest I've ever been. I was being coached by the 14-time Western States champion.

Anne Tracin. I would stay at her house like every time I'd go and train. And I had the worst performance because I made mistakes the day before the race. And so I think about all of those experiences and I realize I've been gifted this chance to try again. I've been gifted this chance to be better than I was. And the only way that I can be better is one by looking at all the areas where I made mistakes or where I was weak or where I failed and tell myself I can be better than that. So yes, being patient in our weaknesses is a powerful way to work on any craft because it is one of the hardest things to do. We do not live in a patient world. And telling people to patiently build anything is like hieroglyphics right now. We want everything fast. We want

success fast. We want to be, you know, we want a million followers right away. We want our businesses to be making a million dollars right away. And for all of time, nothing lasts like that. That's not how good things are built. And that's not how things last. It's patient, quiet work. Well, on the foundation of weaknesses, I mean, a lot of people think that something is a weakness, but in reality it's not a weakness. They think it's a weakness because other people have told them. Yes. It's a weakness of theirs.

If I look back at this past year in my journey of building BPN and stepping out to the CEO role, one of the reasons I step back is because people told me you don't have the skills or education or experience to take this business to the next level. So I started believing that. And I was like, yeah, this is a weakness. of mind. And then as you learn over time, it wasn't actually a weakness. This was a strength. So sometimes we think something is a weakness, but in reality, it's not. When you're climbing up the mountains next to these lighter, faster girls and they're passing you by,

and you smoke them on the downhills, that wasn't weakness. That was a strength that you were actually just holding on to in reserve. So it sounds like the difference between, your two races at Badwater. It wasn't necessarily a physical difference, but it was a mindset difference. I had the exact same type of physical breakdown. I mean, I really struggled both races. But it was a shift in perception.

So I'm curious, mindset-wise, mentally, how are you approaching Western states? What have you been doing in preparation to attack this race differently? Well, coming off the 200s, this is wild for me to even put this out into the universe. There have been moments where I have said to myself, it's only 100 miles.

And I think after spending, you know, it was a span of five months. I did four 200-mile races. Well, none of them were actually 200. They're all over 200. It was a big, big block. It was a big block. It was a big summer.

But it is, it further proved to me that our mental muscle is our most powerful muscle. The way that we choose to give energy, the way that we choose to focus and the way that we choose to even ruminate over things is it's so powerful to. to how we move forward. I was actually just having a conversation with hope about this because she was like, Sally, what do you think of like that? Everyone says that at mile 18 or 20 of a marathon, you hit the wall. What do you think of that?

And I said, unfortunately, it's talked about so much that it's actually a point of fear and anxiety. I agree with that. That is unnecessary that if you tell yourself, even if it's like, yeah, at some point I'm going to hit the wall, like, okay, like you're aware of it. You're aware of it. But how are you actually interacting with it in your brain? Are you afraid of it? Is it as soon as you feel something, will you have fear? Will you think, oh, I knew it. This isn't my race. Like, I'm going to fall off. I'm going to fall

off pace. Like, this is just what everyone said. Everyone said it was going to feel its weight. And I do. They were right. But what if you had your own experience and you didn't feel that way? Or what if you're like, yeah, my legs are tired, but I actually like, isn't this part of it? What if the struggle and the challenge of attaining a goal was actually part of what makes you great? That is what makes you great. And when I think back to the Grand Slam of 200s last year, there's only, what, like 12, 13 people who have done the Grand Slam, done all four of those, when I look at my journey through that, I don't look at any performance. and think, wow, that was a great performance.

I don't think any performance I actually ran to my potential because I was in so much pain. My feet were ripped to shreds. And I knew that at every race, so I tell myself this, at some point, the pain in my feet will be so acute. The ulcers will open back up. More blisters are going to form. I have to make a choice to make that the focus of my race. drop out of the race, complain the entire time, sit in aid stations for three hours,

hoping people will fix them, or I'm just going to say, this is a part of me getting to the finish line. And I can complain and say, well, why doesn't that runner have to go through it? Like, why is it so easy for them? They don't ever get blisters, man. They haven't gone through anything. Like, why do every race I'm dealing with this? See, I'd never had blisters my entire career. I did bad water three times. I never had one blister at bad water. And people talk about their shoes melting and how bad their feet get beat up. So I was insanely prideful when I started the 200s. That was not a point I ever even considered that I would have to worry about my feet. So I was greatly humbled. So my point in all of that is what I learned after I did Cocon 20 and

then Tahoe 200, I had two more races left. When I finished Tahoe 200, I was very sick. They moved that race. because of snowpack. So 17 days later, I had to run another 200. So I ran within a 17-day span, 230 miles or 430 miles. And I remember being at Bigfoot, and I was just coming off meds because I was so sick at Tahoe. I'd come off meds the next day is the race. And I was down probably 10 pounds already, really weak.

What were you sick with? I had a bronchitis in strep throat or sinusitis in strep throat. Like antibiotics you were on? Yeah. Yeah. I had 17 days. And I did a, I did Cam Haynes lift, run, shoot in between that. Everyone's always like, why don't you guys run further?

I'm like, I was so sick. I remember you saying that. Going in there. Like, it was terrible. And I was so excited. I remember to do that. And I was like, oh, great, I'm showing up sick. So I did that.

We get to the big foot. And I'm very sick getting through. race. We did not do a film on that. I told the guys, I was like, we're not doing another film of me haggard dragging through this race. But every single race I built upon. And I think ultimately, that's the only reason why I was able to cross the finish line in first place at Moab 240. It wasn't like Moab was a great race for me. It wasn't like this amazing performance. I finally put everything together. I had everything that I experienced in the previous three races happened at Moab. So spending full 24 hours not able to get food in, throwing up, intestinal problems,

feet shredded. I remember every time I got into an aid station, I'd see the same medical people that were at all the other races. And we're like, dude, how's your feet? Let's take your feet. I'm like, I'm good. I was lying every time because I thought, I'm not going to sit in an aid station again for 30 minutes and focus on my blisters and feet. And really, it's not making them feel better. They will hurt. They will continue to get worse and worse as the race goes on. So the whole race was about what I was choosing to focus on. What are you going to focus on? I was obsessed with that finish line. I wanted to win. I wanted to win that race. I wanted to put together a race that I that I was stoked about. And I found as the miles went on that there's nothing that feels better

about this race. I'm not necessarily doing better, but how I'm interacting with the things that making me feel weak. What I'm focusing on is I have so much pain in my feet. What I'm choosing to focus on, it taught me so much about the power of the mind. And I think as I enter Western States, you know, I look at the field of women. It's very deep. And I would say that any commentator, any sports analysts in the in the ultra world when they analyze the field there there is no chance that I will be a contender for the top 10 going in there's no chance that sally will be in the top 10 and i am well aware of the performances that many of these women have had and i think i could be that runner that gets so obsessed with that wow i'm i'm not as strong as them i'm not

as fast as them. I don't have, you know, the accolades that they do. But what I can do is focus on what I can control. And that is my mind. And I genuinely believe that anything can happen on race day. So while the rest of the world might say, like, you know, there's no chance that you're going to be in top 10. When I show up to train, I tell myself, Sally, you train like you're going to win. And I think that that is, regardless of our weaknesses, regardless of, oh my gosh, there's going to be lows and there's going to, I might hit the wall. I'm in a bonk. None of that gets any of my attention. What I can do is show up and say, I'm going to be the absolute best that I can be. I have no idea where that's going to land me on race day. But I do feel like, especially being the sport that's this long, it is, my responsibility to always give my best. And giving my best means I don't show up on a day to train, talk about this Western Saints camp that I did this past week.

And I don't step onto the trail and think, man, I really hope that I get fifth place. I'm going to train for fifth place. I mean, what athlete says that? You think about basketball players and football players. Who's like, dude, I hope. we get fourth in the league? No one. If you're going to do something, why not give your best? If you're going to do something, why not act like you're the champion? Why not be the best that

you can be and just see where that lands you? And so that's my mindset going into Western States is this isn't about like, oh, I wonder if I can finish 100 miles. I just got done doing a bunch of 200s. I mean, my mindset for Moab, literally my plan was when we get to Ma one, four, I'm going to race the last 100 miles. And that sounds so weird saying that. But that was my strategy. I picked up Billy Yang, my friend and Pacer. It was a 27-mile road section.

It was flat. It was indolating a little bit. And I said, when I pick you up, that's when we're going to start racing. And the first place girl at that time was two hours ahead of me. And we caught her after those 27 miles. And I never looked back. And so when I think about running 140 miles and then saying now we're going to race 100, but now I'm going to go line up at the start of a 100 mile race, I mean, that's like,

I have so much fun stuff to work with in my brain, this concept of running 100, what's going to happen, you know, on race day. I mean, I can't control what's going to happen on race day. I don't know how I'm going to be going to feel. But my plan is to not hold anything back. Well, that's why I love saying doubt is only dangerous when you start doubting yourself. Yeah. And as you're telling that story of that 27 mile stretch and catching that first place female,

I kept thinking back to my last marathon at CIM. One of my strongest marathons to date. Amazing. Which is also a PR for me. Yeah, amazing. And I remember mile 17, 18, 19, 20 to the 15, 15, 20, to the, finish line. And I was passing people, left and right. All of them, a lot thinner than me. Love it. I remember looking over passing them, and you could see it in their eyes. They doubted

themselves. They were defeated. They gave up. They didn't think they could hit that PR any longer. they had this small inkling of weakness and pain that sunk in and they allowed to just overtake and overcome their body and their mind. You can look someone in the eyes and you can tell when they've given up. Yes. And it's really hard to come back from that. I've seen it in races. I've seen it in business owners.

You know, you talk to a founder who is struggling. You look into the eye and it's like, you're not coming back from this. Yes. You don't have hope. You've lost hope. Hope is so powerful. Hope is so powerful.

It's so powerful. And people think it's like the same thing. It's not, it's not fairy tell dream. Hope is a very powerful action word. It holds expectation. When you hope for something, you are expecting to see that through. This isn't just one day I wish. It's, I am, hope is what gets people out of bed.

You live a life without hope. You're not living. What do you have to look forward to? Why are you taking another step? There's no reason to keep going. One of my favorite books that I read this past year by Dr. Henry Cloud is called Necessary Endings. He talks about, you know, there are certain things in your life you have to stop doing.

You have to end. Whether that's a business, a goal, a relationship, a marriage, whatever. it is, you have to end it once you've lost hope. You still have hope. Keep working towards that goal. But so many people want to hold on to this thing or keep working towards when they are hopeless. And when you've been overcome by a feeling of hopelessness, I mean, it's going to be

really hard to dig deep down and find the energy in the one. in the want, in the need, and the desire to get it done. As I was running CIM, people lost hope miles ago. I watched them struggle into the finish line,

missing their goal, missing their PR. For me, I'm sure you too, a goal or not a goal, but a competitive advantage is just that mindset of I'm going to fucking win.

Yes. And I'm going to beat my goal in my PR, when I go to run a marathon, I'm not going for first place. Yeah. But I'm going to set a certain time goal. But I think that's a mindset too. There's only one champion. But you shouldn't wait until you're the champion to behave like one.

And I think that can be a game changer for people. You know, what if you were the best marathoner in the world? Would you train differently because you had that title? Would you eat, sleep, recover? Would your effort be different? If you had that branded across your chest, you are the best marathoner in the world. And I think that's going back to how powerful the mind is. When you believe something, when that has been realized, when I am the best marathoner in the world, it's like it takes over how you live your entire life, your decisions that you make. and even how you interact with hope because you're just like, I'm the best.

But what if we were just like that in everything that we did? Well, I'm the best dad around, right? Like, I am the best. Like, people look to me and I know, I know what to do. I know what I want to do. I have goals in place. And I think that if we put that kind of energy into belief in to all aspects of our life,

I think we'd be a little bit more courageous, too. I think we'd be a little bit more willing to take chances. We'd believe in ourselves a little bit more. But it's hard to tell somebody that, and this is just using running as the parallel, when someone says to you, well, I'm just a back of the packer.

I just came to finish the race. I just hope I finished the race. That's all I want to do. Yeah, but what if, how about you just pretend, pretend that you're actually the, I know you call yourself a back of the hacker, but let's say that you are actually going to be the champion. Would you train differently?

Would you do anything differently? See, we let the beliefs and the way that we view ourselves dictate how we go after everything in life. And I think that is a tragedy because some people will listen to critics around them, other people sizing them up, and they'll never live to their full potential. They'll never live out all the things that they could have done because they sit in this mold. They sit in this belief that they are lesser.

And, you know, when I think about Western States, when I run on that trail, I think about winning the race. Now, like I said, statistically, according to, to, anyone analyzing the race? Yeah, odds are very stacked against me to win that race. But belief before ability. But belief before ability. It's so powerful to me. I've, I guess it's maybe a childlike way, which I think is important sometimes to have childlike perceptions of things because you, as children, we believe anything. I'm going to be an astronaut, you know, I'm going to be a famous dancer. I'm going to have a billion dollars. You know, kids just kind of

believe that everything is possible and that all good things are going to come to them. And many times we'll continue to act out in that. But then it's like real life hits and you start to grow older and you feel that life is hard and cold and people are mean and there's critics and judgments. And then you start to kind of find the space where you don't feel hurt and you don't feel criticized. You don't feel judged. And we kind of close off the wonder and the curiosity and the imagination and the hopes and the dreams because it hurts too much to let other people know what we dream of because we don't want people weighing in. But that's kind of taking all back to what I was saying from the get-go.

Like this is like the greatest part of even being a human. Everyone has imperfections. We all have our weaknesses. But what if we just like kept working with experience? excitement and joy knowing like I can get a little bit better. And my strengths are going to get stronger. And I'm going to improve on my weaknesses. But man, if I don't try, I'm never going to know. And so when I, every time I get out to train on the Western States Trail, and like I said, my last training was discouraging. And I wrote to my coach, I was like, you know, it was discouraging.

But I told myself when I turn around for the back. So it was an out and back. I was doing. I'm going to go out as if I'm preparing myself for a race. So my haul going out was like I was eating, I was drinking, I was like building myself up and I was talking to myself. I was like, what are the tapes that I'm going to play on race day? If I feel like this, oh my gosh, I'm tired, my legs are heavy, it's so hot. I don't feel like I have great energy. And the goal for me for that entire training day was I'm going to turn around and it doesn't

matter how I feel. I'm going to believe that I'm going to run back stronger that I came out. And according to Strava, I ended up running back and breaking a lot of my own time records from over all the years that I have run on that course. And it was just kind of going back to the power of the mind. Did my body feel any better? No, I mean, I was way more tired on the turnaround. And I didn't feel great at the beginning. It wasn't like I gained strength as I went out. I was breaking my body down. By the time it was time to turn around, I'd already climbed 5,000 feet. It was super hot. You know, I was depleted, but yet I went back stronger. So what was the change in there? And so I'm writing this to my coach in the airport. And he writes back, he's like, Sally, you are killing these camps.

And, you know, you have to focus on the work that you can do. You have to focus on the on the recovery. You know, each thing you have to focus on piece by piece. But the thing that I focused on on the going back was like, what if I was the champion? What if I was the returning champion to Western States? Is this how a champion trains just, you know, I'm upset that I don't feel good on. I'm good energy. My legs are tired. I don't feel great.

Like this train runs sucks. No. If I'm going to train like I'm a champion, I'm going to give everything that I have to give in this session because that's all that I can control. I can't control race day, but I can look back when I stand on the start line and remember this day in training and know that I felt like crap and I still ran well. And that was simply a mind shift. That was just what I believed about myself. That's what I chose to focus on. I would have obsessed with Michael Jordan. I love Michael Jordan. Kobe.

My two favorites right there. When people ask me who my sports heroes are, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant. And Steve Jobs. Okay. This past couple months. I'm obsessed with this podcast. I wasn't expecting that. It was like sports and it all said to Steve Jobs.

I've been obsessed with this podcast last couple months called Founders. Okay. I've talked about it a lot on this podcast. Yeah, you have. And it's this guy named David Senra who breaks down autobiographies and biographies of some of the greatest founders, world leaders, athletes. And there's always just this common denominator within people who have achieved greatness in large amounts of success, no matter how you define it.

It's mindset. They all believe they're the best. They all want to be the best, not necessarily the biggest, but they want to be the best at what they do. Jordan. Kobe. unrelenting desire to be the best basketball player in the entire world and doing whatever it takes to get there.

And when they show up to play a game, they're showing up walking out on the court thinking and knowing, I'm the best. I'm here to win. I'm not here to lose. I'm not here to go home with that third place trophy. I'm here to win. That's like the mindset I see with you. It's this, like the champion mindset is a real thing.

Russell Orhey, BPN athlete, I had him on the podcast two weeks ago. He is that same mindset. Like when he walks into the gym, he's not there to talk. He's not there to hang out and socialize. He's here to get the work done and get after it. Is that how you're approaching these camps? Like when you go out to run, is it I'm going to run or is it I'm here to kill this training session. Talk about that difference because I think a lot of people have never

experienced that mindset shift, especially when you go from off season to in season. And like, what is that fighter? What does that warrior mindset look and feel like? And then kind of follow up questions, how does that kind of affect other people in your life? Yeah, especially. especially having a family, a business. What I have learned, I know we've talked about this before, I speak about it quite a bit. Our lives are so unique, and they are made up of so many different variables.

And so I said earlier, I don't live the life of a, what people call a traditional professional athlete where the sum total of their days is basically focused on themselves. I'm preparing to train, training, recovering, and then doing it again. And it's day in and day out. I don't live that way.

Those pieces are mixed in to other responsibilities I have. Have you ever lived that way? No. And the reason why I think I can do it so well now is because I started working at such a young age. So I actually don't know another life. And when you don't know another life outside of always working long hours, short hour, short window of sleep. I get a lot of sleep now than I used to. I used to only get four or five hours, like pretty much my whole life until my late 20s.

But like I. I can feel that. Yeah. I know. Yeah. But I think the overall. I appreciate that. I actually find a lot of value in that.

So my ability to be able to do multiple things and also kind of lean into a hyper focus on what it is that I'm working on in that moment because I understand that you and I have the same amount of hours in a day. So I can very easily say, well, gosh, they spend 10 hours a day on themselves training, recovering, all that.

Like, I just don't have that. But the thing is, we have the same amount of hours in the day. And I want to be great at everything I do. And that's really hard to do. And so I really believe that when I put together these training camps, it allows me to hyper focus on the work that I have to do. So I do not, most people, I don't tell people I'm going on these camps. I don't meet up with friends.

and I have a lot of friends in the area. I had one friend that found out I was up there, and over and over she was trying to get me to meet up for dinner. I finally did, like, one of the nights. And she's like, you need to come just stay with us. Like, we have an extra room. We'll leave you alone. And I tried to, in so many ways, just say,

you know, I am a terrible house guest because I don't want to focus on anything except my training. It's a distraction. It is a pure distraction. And I really only had this conversation with Eddie. I'm like, it's very hard to explain this to people I love outside of Eddie. Eddie gets it. He has lived with me.

He's known me. My kids get it. They've known me their whole lives. But to just explain it to anyone, hey, I'm coming up to train for three days. Oh, let's catch dinner. It's not like you'd be training like all day long. And for me, I'm like, that's a point of exhaustion. Like, if I go and have dinner with you, we'll probably have this conversation.

I'll stay out longer than I want to. I'll probably eat food. I don't want to eat. And also like, what if you want to meet at six, but I want to be in the mountains longer and like, or I want my recovery to be longer. So I pretty much go up on the course at odd days. I start at odd hours in hopes that I won't see anyone. For the most part, I've been successful. Sometimes I'll run into people in town or on the trail. But the purpose of these camps is for me to leave no story. stone unturned to hyper focus on every element of race day that I possibly can. So I treat every day

like it's race day. I eat what I'm going to eat the morning of the race. I experiment with the exact gear that I'm going to wear on race day. Outside of the long tights that I'm wearing, I'm pretty much wearing everything else that I'm going to wear on race day. Every time I train. The fueling system. I have alarms set on my watch. Okay, today I'm going to practice. What if I eat, you know, every 30 minutes X amount of calories. Okay, now I'm going to play around with adding different foods or different time frames in which I'm going to eat.

There's river and water crossings in Western States. I don't know if that water is still going to be there, but I practice different cooling systems. And just how I move on the course, I am a very visual person. I think that not all competitive ultra runners feel the need to be on the course to train. Some actually don't like it. Some like the surprise of race day. And so to each his own. But I feel like there is immense power in going and studying the course.

Studying the course. I mean, I have it down to where I've run so many sections where I say, okay, this tree that has a ranch reaching out and it hits the view this way, this is 0.8 miles from the aid station. This is the pace I want to keep. This is what I want to. Okay, when I hit this rock that's right next to this boulder and it's in the shape of, like, I give things names and shapes and I understand where they are. I understand, okay, this is where you can pick up pace.

Okay, this is where the pitch gets really steep. It kind of sound like a crazy person right now, but I believe the importance. of studying, of knowing your craft to prove yourself on the day that you're tested. And I believe that in my whole heart. I believe that's my responsibility. And I don't ever want to be or look back and have any type of excuse or come up with an excuse or wish that I would have done more on race day. Because I've been there before early, early in my career.

I was like, man, I wish I would have done this or I wish I would have trained better here or I wish I would have studied the map a little better. Man, that part of the course is really surprising or I thought the aid station was closer. I want to know that I stand on that start line and I did absolutely everything that I possibly could within the unique life that I live to be the best that I can be. And so when I understand that I'm trying to be the best that I can be and not better than anyone else in the start line. And I think that is what is so key in professional sports, is so often we are pitted against people

or we obsess over what other people's training is, we obsess over what people are doing or what their past accomplishments are, that we lose sight of the work of our own hands and what we are supposed to be doing. And I've learned that lesson many times, because in the beginning, it was like, oh my gosh, I'm racing against so-and-so, and they're so good, and they just won these last few races,

and you have no idea what kind of day they're going to have. You have no idea if they're going to drop out at mile 41 of a 50-mile race. You have no idea how they're going to feel or what's going through their head. In fact, you have no control of what they're doing. And if I focus on being the best I can be and putting in the best work and getting out the best to myself, there's no telling of what can happen on race day. It could be the day of my wildest dreams. It could also be the worst performance that I ever have. But regardless of that, what I know that I can control is showing up in giving my absolute best. And so these training camps, I don't take them lightly because I'm leaving home on a plane and I'm leaving for three days. So I'm away from my family.

I am away from my typical work schedule. And I am 100% focused on just running. I mean, it's pretty hard for me. I will say running a business, all my responsibilities, coming back to my hotel at night. And it's just all these text messages. Hey, I've been trying to get a hold of you. Hey, I need an answer on this.

Oh, just the thought of that stresses me out. It is, it's unreal. Yeah. And very grateful to Eddie. You know, we work alongside each other now. so he does try to help as much as he can. But those are also choices. So I just reply very quickly to everyone.

Hey, I'm in the mountains out of reception. I'll get back to you on Monday. And I don't, I'm not, there's no apology for that. Because I set up my work very purposely. And I think, you know, knowing I have this many hours in the day, this is the goal that's important. This is the work that's needed to attain it. you know, there will always be work to do, and I can never please everyone. But the goal that I'm

working on right now, this is the work that's required of me, and that's what I have to focus on. Now, outside of that, my kids get leeway. I mean, there have been moments where I'm literally running through the forest, and the phone rings, and I got to talk to McKenzie. I have to talk to Isaiah or Eddie has a question for me. But outside of that, it's, it's a full hyper focus on the work and the work alone. When I'm really focused on a goal, similar to you, I slowly, whether this is business or fitness, say there's your off season where you're a little bit more. Just so great.

Lean in. Yeah. And there's in season where there's not only a shift in terms of work demand, but also mindset shifts a little bit. Boundaries coming to play more. It's establishing more boundaries. I think a lot of times people in the outside looking in will view those boundaries as either selfishness or cocky or who does he or she think they have achieved X, Y, and Z. and I believe you have to be unapologetically okay with establishing boundaries and holding those

boundaries with your time, with relationships, with other people. When you're in the mountains, you have to set these boundaries so you can go put in the work. When I'm hyper-focused on a sprint in the business or a prep or the team, I set these boundaries. There are certain text messages that I won't respond to for sometimes hours, days, weeks, months, ever. That's a reality. There's a lot of emails I don't respond to. Same. And I just delete. And it's not me saying like your time isn't worth it, but I need to choose where I'm spending my time because if I give everyone my time, you won't ever achieve your goals. And that is not selfishness. I agree. That is selfishness. That is selfishness. That is

selflessness. That's prioritizing your time and your goals to not only help yourself, but the people in your circle. Has that affected you negatively in any way in the past or right now in terms of you're setting these big boundaries in your personal and professional career for this race? How does it affect other people outside of your family? Yeah. I've grown in that area because In the beginning, I wanted to do everything and be everything to everyone and complete everything. And I found myself always emotionally, physically exhausted and always feeling like I was failing. I felt like every day I was a failure. Even though I was getting a lot done on the two list, there was always something more that

people wanted of me or something I wasn't able to fulfill or something I wasn't able to show up to. And that was a season in my life where I had to step back and kind of have that self-awareness and be like, wait, what is it that you're trying to accomplish? Why are you feeling so tired? And what is actually like valuable and important like in life? Like actually, how am I supposed to? And so you, I'm finding that, okay, I have to address things socially. the way I communicate with people, what I feel is my purpose in life, what I feel is my responsibility as a human, to my family, to my job. I mean, I literally came through a lot of praying and journaling to zero in on when I am working. And that work is rooted in love

and what I believe my purpose to be. It's a lot easier for me to, to stick to the mission, stick to the purpose, and focus consistently. And if all these things out here aren't aligning with the purpose, like, they're not coming in. But here's the thing, the more that I worked, and I'm talking about even just in all the things that Eddie and I have, have created, and the business I've created since, I mean, it's been since 2007 when I started my fitness business, which is now turned into an app and I had a coaching business and all these other things, we do. But it was years and years and years of learning to not give in to everyone's opinion, everyone's, everyone that wants your time. Even friends, it's hard because you have, you know,

your friend group, you have all these different personalities and they do life differently. And then, like, once everyone starts having kids, everyone does life differently too. And, like, their expectations of your time are different. And so I think naturally just growing and trying to figure that out. But what I have learned is, When you focus consistently on something, it grows. And there's no substitute for that. And it has to be day in and day out, day in and down. That's the only way that it's going to grow.

It's the only way that it's going to be quality, that's going to have a foundation. And I noticed, Eddie and I, I think it was 2022, we said, dude, we need to really, really focus on building this podcast, on building this app, on building this. And everything, like, started growing. and when it started growing like exponentially, I was like, it's so weird. I also feel like I'm losing friends. I feel like people that used to support me,

people that used to, like, I thought that they cared about me, they've literally stopped talking to me. And I think that that is just kind of true to life that you actually discover the people that really love you when you are living your life that's most authentic to you. And living your life most authentic to you is going after the things that you were meant to do. And I think that every person has a specific shape for their life and the journey that they're meant to live.

And so often we don't live that out because we're so wrapped up in trying to please other people, meet other people where they, want us to me according to their expectations, be everything to everyone all the time, that we actually miss out on focusing and consistently living our life. And so I've learned, while my circle of tight-knit friends and those that are, have walked with me through every season, highs and the lows, it's actually pretty small. You know, it's one thing to have like a lot of followers and people that know you in acquaintances and, you know, people that are cheering for you. But the people that are like, dude, I know that you're in training

season right now. Like, I just want you to know, like, I love you. I'm here for you. Like, I can't wait until you're in your off season when we can go and like do A, B, and C. My closest girlfriends, they say that to me. They know when I'm in training season. They know when I'm in the off season. They know they're going to see me way more in the off season. They know that we're going to hang out way more. They know that when I'm in training, it's going to be a lot of like text messages and audio messages and things like that. And like every now and then I might, you know, I might get to see you. But it's not easy. I don't think it's what people expect it is. I mean, I think when you see someone that's successful or really living out their life in the way

they want to or they're going after their goals, we think that their life is maybe great and smooth and they have all these people around them, but it can be lonely and it can be hard. And you can question yourself, like, is this what I'm even supposed to be doing? Especially when you hit points of failure and setback in challenges. And you're like, what am I actually doing? And I think staying true to yourself is working through all of that and seeing something grow. And then ultimately, that thing that you grew, that beautiful goal that you achieved, many times impacts people around you in really wonderful ways, in very inspiring ways.

I mean, watching you, Nick, go after these goals, especially in running. I mean, the marathon, it is amazing. I meet people all the time that, you know, they don't do the hybrid thing. They don't lift. They don't know much about the company, but they do know that you and I are a friend. And they're like, he is freaking insane. Like, he's like not human. And I love hearing that because in my mind, I think, well, Nick is genuinely one of the hardest

workers that I know. And when he commits himself to something, he is all in. I don't meet a lot of people like that. I think a lot of people feign that. They feign that on social media. I'm all in, man, all about the work. I'm going, I'm like, are you really, though? Like, do you actually know what that takes?

Because it's freaking lonely and it's hard to do that. consistently over and over again. You can do what you do in road marathons because you are consistent and you show up and give 100 percent. You have that champion mindset. It doesn't matter what science tells you about how heavy you are and what you should be able to run or what running coaches think or how fitness people size you up. You're going to go and do what you believe that you can do. If you put your mind to something, you're going to get a heck a lot closer to do it, even if it never comes to fruition. You're still going to break so many barriers and prove people wrong. And I think that is such a wonderful way to live life. I think that that doesn't take special

talent. That doesn't take a lot of money. Doesn't take you having to be a professional athlete. It just takes hard work, belief consistently over, over and over again. And you've done that across the board in everything you do. It isn't just the marathon. I mean, look at your business, the community that you've built. And I think so often we find people are searching for a formula. They're searching for like, what's the new answer? And so, I mean, you and I both podcasts, but it's like we listen to like every podcast, read every single book.

We're looking to who the next person. What is the new thing? But all of it, if you were to put it all on the table, all the best advice, all the best books, all the greatest thinkers, it's going to come down to just. a few of the same things, hard consistent work year after year, and believing in that goal and never giving up. I mean, we're all saying that. We're all saying the same thing, but we're telling different stories. We're giving different examples. And all of it is inspiring and beautiful. And I think that's the way that we're all meant to be. It isn't that these people are like special.

It's they made the decision to operate in a way that was different from the majority. majority likes to be comfortable. The majority likes to say, stay here in our comfort zone, because you doing stuff that's like really hard and that's uncomfortable makes me feel uncomfortable. And I don't want you proving me wrong. You're highlighting my weaknesses and I don't like it. And so I'm going to tell you all the things I don't like about you.

I mean, you get this all the time. You constantly prove people wrong. People don't like to be proven wrong. And when you prove them wrong, it kind of like highlights. their fear, their own insecurity, their own negativity. I mean, it's crazy the way people feed on negativity, the way they feed on drama. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people listening to say, oh, yeah, I had people in my family like that. I had people in my extended family like that. Or I went to college with people like that. There are literally people that's the only way

they know how to do life. It's finding the point of drama. Everything is a big deal. Constantly defensive, constantly looking for the problem, the excuse, the reason to never be uncomfortable. The reason to never, ever be brave or courageous is because if I do that, there's a great chance that I'm going to fail and you're going to see how weak I am. I'll tell you what, I think there has to be a decision at some point in our life. And there's nothing, there's no one that can make this decision for us. you are either going to see failure and discomfort as part of achieving what you want to, or you're just going to choose, I don't ever want to see it that way, and so I'm just going to

stay comfortable, and I'm never going to achieve what I'm capable of doing. And I think that the vast majority sits right in there. They sit in, I'm going to stay comfortable. I'm not going to rock the boat. I don't want anyone to point out anything that's worth. week. So I'm going to live behind these filters. And I'm going to do things that look nice, that always highlight things that I like. And yet get to the end of your life and have to be honest at the end of your life and say, man, what if or I coulda, woulda, shoulda,

done A, B, and C. Or why didn't I just try? I mean, that scares me. I think I, I, I, I, I, I, I think that that's such a scary thing to think about getting the end of your life and be like, why didn't I try that? Darn it. Why didn't I, why did I care so much whatever, what everyone else thought of me? Yeah. I think it was a Gary Vee podcast. I was listened to two weeks ago on the skinny confidential.

And he said, if you just keep learning and you don't quit, you will eventually achieve your goals. And I think belief is so important. It's not lofty. It's not lofty. It's not a sexy word. You're not going to see that on Believe More. It doesn't sound strong enough. And as I'm thinking about this, today we were walking through what is potentially going to be the next BPNHQ.

It was this big shell of a warehouse, 76,000 square feet. Oh, my gosh. Massive. Massive. Our first warehouse lease we ever signed was 6,000 square feet. Before that, we were packing out of a house. A house, yeah. And slowly over the years, we've grown and grown and grown.

But walking into this building, which was a shell of a space, 76,000 square feet, I walked in there. And you would think I would be thinking, wow, I never thought we'd get here. That's kind of the truth in the beginning. I never thought we'd be in a 76,000 square foot building. But now as I walk into that, and the lease that we're going to sign, whether it's in this building or one similar, it's going to be a 10-year lease. Oh, my gosh. So what goes to my head is, oh, within 10 years, we're going to outgrow this.

So what are we going to do when we're out in a space? Like, I believe, I truly believe when I walk into that 76,000 square feet's footprint, we will outgrow this before that lease is up. I believe that. That's great belief. And the fact that I believe that and I have the ability, I can only achieve because I do believe in that. But if I'm going to walk in there and say,

I don't know if we'll ever fill this space, this might take us under. We'll never out and grow this. Well, then I'm not going to. Exactly. But when I walk into a space, when I approach a challenge, when I'm planning for the future,

it's not one of these things where I stand in from a mirror and say, Nick, you can do this. Nick, you can do this. No, it's not like this false affirmation. Yeah. I'm in my head thinking, Nick, you can fucking do this. And you're going to do this. And it's not like trying to convince myself. I believe in my bones.

If I was the only person on this planet, I believe that in my bones. I see it in your eyes. I'm going to do it. No, seriously. That's so exciting. And I think that that is how great things are achieved. If you can imagine it, you can achieve it. But here's the thing, Nick, tell me your thoughts on failure in all of that.

Because we hear this too often. I put my whole heart into it. You probably heard other people who started businesses, maybe training even for a race. that's a smaller, I think races are a much smaller scale on this because life is so much greater and the challenges and the, in the courageousness that we have to exhibit in everyday life and big goals, the careers and things like that. And then after putting themselves into it, putting all this work, money, invest, whatever, and they fail. All too often we hear, oh, man,

like that's my sign. It's just not working out. Like I shouldn't have started this. This was ridiculous. Who was I? They were right. It's a sign to keep going. It's a sign that if. That's a champion mindset. That's where I want to point out is what's the percentage.

You probably know this. Something percentage of all businesses fail within like the first five years or something like that. First three years. Three years. It's astronomical, right? Is it that they actually failed as opposed to they stopped believing? they stopped trying. Because here's the thing, if Walt Disney would have given up after the first time he went bankrupt,

the second time he went bankrupt, the third time he went bankrupt, the fourth time he went bankrupt five freaking times. And look at what Disney is today, worldwide, what has been born out of that. It's one of my favorite stories because I mean, going bankrupt is, that's a big deal. Yeah. And to have, okay, then after the third time, it's like, okay, dude, like, this idea is not a good idea. It's not working. And you have your family, financial advisors are like, dude, Walt, move on.

Like, this isn't happening. But Walt Disney, one of the greatest imaginary minds, he had massive imagination, so creative. He believed with every bone in his body that he was going to create this amazing fantasy world, this greatest place on earth or happiest place on earth as he coined it. He believed in that and he refused to quit until it came to fruition. And so when I hear that statistic for three years, most companies fold, I always wonder about who is at the head of these companies and what did you believe to be true when you first started out. And how often in our everyday lives we get beat up by challenges and setbacks and failures.

And we then just attribute it to I chose the wrong path or my dream was lame. I'm embarrassed. So I'm going to go find something. that's easier and more comfortable. And I'm just going to do that. I mean, I get lit up by failure. It brings life into me. This past year is a clear example.

I stepped down to the CEO rule. And I haven't shared some of these numbers on a podcast before, but step down to the CEO rule. And as I've talked about, we ran a process. And I was going to sell a small portion of the business to private equity. And I was in this process for a year, a year working seven days a week to get this deal across the finish line with our leadership team. And I was going to get a $22 million check at the end of this process to sell a portion

of my business, which I was like, take care of my family forever and generations to come. Yeah. And life changing. You could stop working if you wanted to. you could just hang out. And the deal fell apart. And it was literally days before funds were supposed to get sent over. Like we were.

No way. We were waiting for money to hit the bank account before we found out the deal wasn't going to happen. And most people, I believe, maybe, would get that news after a year of working this process and after 12 years of building a business and be like, ah, this ain't it for me. I got that phone call, and Steph can attest to this because I was like three days out from running CIM. I was like, deal fell apart. I'm going to sleep.

I got to run in the morning. Phone down next morning. I logged my 11 miles. Went and crushed CIM. And I have more energy than ever before to build this business. Because it happens. It just, it happens. But what, okay, you got to pause right there.

Yeah. That's massive. that that's that's something that to everyone listening they want to know what what helped you get up in the morning and go run your 11 miles how did you not crumble on your bathroom floor or punch a hole in the wall I took it as a sign I took it as a sign of like hey Nick this business isn't at a stage where private equity should get involved right now right you can grow this thing to maintain brand value and mission and help hundreds of thousands and more people, but it's got to be in your hands. And it can't be in these other people's hands who don't care about the business of the people. So yeah, $22 million in the bank would have

been nice. But I think I got the better end of the stick. I got control. I got freedom. I got ability and belief to really grow this thing. and build a thing into something that I wanted to be. Not partnering with someone else who doesn't care, but doing it with me and my team. So it was like the closed door was an opportunity. Yes. That door shut and it gave you confidence to really dive into everything

that you'd been dreaming of doing. That's why I'm back here in Texas right now doing what I love. I texted my brother the next day. I said, dude, we're taking control back. And here we are. That's amazing. And your enthusiasm and energy is electric. I mean, since you've been back, I've talked to you on the phone a couple times.

I can feel it coming through the phone, your excitement, your joy. Hope picking us up from the airport today was reiterating all of that. And it's like coming out of her too. is one of your employees. And yeah, and then just stepping in to see you today. I mean, it's so apparent that you are right where you're supposed to be. I feel that too. Yeah.

So sometimes failure, as much as it might feel like a setback or a mistake, it might be a sign. It might be an opportunity. Yeah. Hey, you can get better. You can shift the trajectory of where, you're heading with the people who you're on this mission with. So that's the way I view failure. This is an opportunity for me to reassess, re-approach, re-attack, because I was obviously

on a path that might not have been the right path right now. So if I've learned anything in this past year about setbacks, failures, mistakes, I've learned that it's not always a failure, a mistake, or a set back. Sometimes it's an opportunity to take one step back to take two steps forward. I think that everything in our life can be used for something great. And many times our boldness, our courage comes from past failures. and the truth that we lived through it, we got through it. And so we can look back and realize I got through that really hard season.

At the time, I wanted to crawl into a hole and die. But I'm here today. And I'm trying to dream a new dream, go after a new goal. and I kind of feel like I can because of all that I've already overcome. But the thing is that in every failure, you've learned so much. Like there's actually gold. There's nuggets of gold in our failures because you know what to do next time. You know how to make something better.

You know what to strengthen. You know who to trust. I think that's been a big one for me in the last couple years. it's been a painful one. I'll reinforce that one. I know. You and I have, that's when I say, that's what we don't talk on microphone about. But that's where you appreciate friends who've walked that.

When people betray your trust, when people that you thought that you were friends or were in it, you were in the goal together. And then it's like, wow, you're not. And it hurts. It's, I think being goal-oriented, having a champion mindset, being focused and consistent, doesn't mean that, you know, you operate like a rock. Still have feelings and emotions and all of that is still there. And so when you're growing something and you want people to grow with you and come alongside you and, man, sometimes it's the hardest part in failures is you either feel like,

man, I've let people down or these people are no longer around. and you feel the loss in a real physical way. But you look back for all of time, for all of history. And that is a very constant pattern. And as you continue to grow, that's like also where your truest friends and your most loyal people in your life really start to shine. even people that you didn't think in the past. You're like, wow, I didn't realize it, but like, you have been so loyal for me. I haven't given you enough credit for that. I've had seasons in my

life where I have to go back and be like, I need to tell you. I have not told you. The last two years, you have been amazing. You have been there for me. You may not, you know, and it doesn't have to be someone that's like super wise and has all the advice, but it's like someone that was like, I am, I am your friend, whether you are super successful, whether you're easy to be around or hard to be around, but like, I think moving through failures in all areas in our life, it teaches us how to be strong moving forward. It helps you to walk into a 76,000 square foot building and say, we're going bigger. Yeah. I'm dreaming bigger. I believe there's a reason why. Every human, I mean, you can, you can, and I've observed this on playgrounds all over the world. Because he used

to work in a lot of visit orphanages all over, work with youth, all over, the world. We are built with imagination. We are built with this ability. We, you know, we do imagination play as little kids. I mean, I'm sure you can remember this with your siblings growing up. Everything is an adventure. Exploration is there. And I don't think we're supposed to get rid of that. And if we can be so bold to hold on to that and carry that into our lives, you will walk into a big building and say, we're going to go bigger than this. I mean, that's just like a little kid, right? Like, it's going to be bigger than this.

Yes. And we're going to keep growing and anything is possible. But look at every successful person in every industry. How many times was their pushback for their idea that they wanted to create? And not only that, you, I mean, I know you brought up Steve Jobs, but it's like some of the stuff that Steve Jobs thought up, like, how many people even had the ability to think that up or to even try to put those things into play. I mean, I love imagination, wonder, curiosity, because look at what happens. And I think just in a very present state, like where you are building up to your next marathon, it's so exciting watching

you do it because it is different than like Kipchogi. Okay, we expect Kipchogi to be the fastest in the world, right? You look at Kipchogi. You're like, yeah, a marathon runner. You know, no judgments. There's no judgments there. There is a typical marathon body. There's a typical one, especially if you're running sub three, but Nick. Ain't my body. Yeah. Nick, you are rare. But the only reason why people see that is rare is because very rarely do people choose to step out of their comfort zone and not listen to what the outside world is telling them, but instead go and believe in the goal that you have set before you. And I think that's very hard to do.

Staying focused and consistent to very unsexy words, focus and consistent, is how you achieve. And I think that's why you've been able to do what you do. But I like to throw in there too. You also have a wonderful imagination. I'm very curious. Yeah. I'm a very curious person. Yeah.

And I think that has played to my advantage over the years. Absolutely. Well, Sally, we are what, 27 days? Yes. 27 days out from Western States. I cannot wait to log some miles with you. I'm so excited, Dick. And absolutely crush this race.

Seth's been asking me, like, why are you running so many miles? I'm like, because I cannot let Sally down. I'm like, I'm bringing some heat. I am so excited to have you out there pacing me. We've never logged this many miles together. No. And not only that, as I said before, Western States really is magical. I said this when I walked in into the camera.

You had your camera guy on us. Yes, Landry. And I said, Landry, you heard it from me first. Nick Bear will run Western States. My college roommate was from Illinois. She had never seen the ocean. And I grew up with the ocean. I was so excited to take her to the ocean. I just wanted to see her face. I just wanted to be there those first moments that she walked out onto the sand and hit that, you know, hit that water. And it was like the best thing ever. I still remember it. And that's the joy and excitement that I have about you coming out, the BPN team coming out, is you guys coming out and experiencing Western state. because it truly is an experience unlike any other ultra that I've ever done in the world. And I've raced all over the world.

It's just very special and memorable. And I know it's an experience you'll never forget. But my greater hope is that it will keep you dreaming for what's ahead for you. Oh, it's going to happen. Yeah, you got to do Western States. It is the race of races. I know you put Leadville on the map in the biggest way. I don't think people understand it.

I don't think you get enough credit for it because never in my 15 years of running ultras, have I ever met so many people that want to do Leadville? And then I somehow at some point in the conversation will say, oh, yeah, have you seen, you know, Knicks run that? You've watched his video. Oh, yeah, that's why I'm running. I've seen his film. I have to do Leadville.

I mean, I've never met so many people who've never even run an old. who are like, yeah, I've done a half marathon. I'm doing Leadville next year. I'm like, since when did Leadville become the entry point, the entry point into ultra running since you did it? That doc, that doc has reached a lot of people. That doc has reached a lot of people. You know, the beautiful thing when I,

this is, I was just getting to know you when I watched that documentary. And I remember after watching, I said the best thing about this film is that Nick highlighted the team crossing the finish line. It was just like, it was like everyone involved. Yeah. It wasn't just, here's how I train in my race experience. It was like the whole experience.

And so people are not only excited to go and try Leadville. People want to go out to crew. They want to pace. They want to be in, in Leadville. And so you have a massive, massive influence. I know that you know this. And sometimes, you know, I like to say, to much as given, much is required. But I think the responsibility in that is when you have been

given a lot, and you know you have a big crowd, a big community of people that are so inspired by you that look to you. It's pretty cool to put out inspiring content. And I think that the way that you go after goals, that consistency, that focus, giving yourself 100%, you are exactly where you're supposed to be. I appreciate that. With a lot of light shining on you. And I feel honored to have you as my pacer at Western States. And hopefully that'll be just the little mustard seed, the little seed that we planted for your journey there. Because I think that when you run it to and when you expose that to, you know, to your community and all the people that are inspired by you, you're just going to go

tell another freaking awesome story. I like to truly respect the race, the event, and the process that goes into it. Yeah. The Speed Project film that we're launching in two weeks. I'm very excited to see that. I just watched that first cut yesterday. Okay. What did you think?

The best piece of, the best film that we've ever created. Okay, that's exciting to hear. In BPN history. That's absolutely incredible. That's saying a lot. You guys put out good content. Absolutely incredible. And it's like an hour and five minutes long.

It's a long film. Yes. It's a great story. This is listeners that like to watch things on treadmills and bikes, they are stoked. Yes. This is long run content. It's a long piece. But I know like when we go to Western States to pace you, like for me, that's not me

just like showing up to logs of miles. I'm like, I got to show up. And like this team has to support Sally. And like we got to respect the race and the runners and the community. Like I don't take this light at all because I know how much history is behind these races. and respect. And I want to make sure that we're respecting the process and the people as we tell these stories.

So that's our goal with everything we create, but especially going to support you at Western States. Yeah. I'm excited. I'm praying it's a strong day out there. I'll be ready for whatever is thrown my way. And I'm just ready to show up and give my best. Wherever that lands me, I will be very happy as long as I know.

gave 110%. So having you out there with me, the whole crew, it's, we're going to go write a really good story. Yes. We're going to have a great day. And, you know, like any race I do, it's always my hope that when I look back, I'm just, I'm really proud of it. But, but also that I have some good memories to hold on to for the rest of my life. And that's really been the highlight of every race that I've done is the people that I share it with. So I'm so thankful for your time too, because I know baby number two is on the way. And like this is, baby number two is coming up. We're 27 days out. We have to get to Austin. We have the GoGel Yellow Runner, Mango, GoJel launch party. And let's go eat some tacos. Let's go. Thanks, Sally.

Thanks, Nick.