The Nick Bare Podcast - 073: How To Stop Complicating Health, Fitness and Nutrition With Jordan Syatt

Episode Date: July 1, 2024

Today, I'm sitting down with Jordan Syatt, a world-record powerlifter and expert trainer for losing fat and building muscle. In this episode, we didn't just scratch the surface-we went deep, got practical, and covered a lot of ground in between. Our discussion on eating habits and disorders, particularly the impact of binge eating and succumbing to social media influence, will equip you with actionable advice. We also explored how the habits we form today can set the trajectory for our future and the impact this can have on our families. It was an inspiring conversation, and I'm excited for this episode to equip you further on your health and fitness journey. Save 10% at BPN Supps: https://bit.ly/nickbare10audio Follow for more:  IG: instagram.com/nickbarefitness/ YT: youtube.com/@nickbarefitness Keep up with Jordan:IG: instagram.com/syattfitness/ Topics: 0:00 Intro 1:00 Welcome 2:36 Jordan’s blood sugar experiment 12:05 Do blood sugar spikes affect energy? 14:52 Portion sizing 18:41 Unhealthy relationships with fitness and nutrition 22:49 The breaking points 26:42 Binging and eating disorders 33:34 Don’t get caught up in the quick fixes 38:18 What brand is to you 42:28 What we do now sets the foundation for later 48:07 Tomorrow isn’t a guarantee 54:47 Balancing work, friends, family, fitness and sleep 1:02:40 Creating a healthy environment for your kids 1:12:52 Setting the trajectory for your family 1:18:28 What are you building? 1:24:35 The line between ambition and contentment 1:31:17 Being present for the moments

Dude, eating disorders are a major, major issue, a mental health problem that is one of the leading causes of people taking their own lives or death as a result of it. The fitness industry does a great job of masking it. People who are like very famous or very well known and who have these insane physiques and they do these crazy things and they pack it up and put a bow on it to make it sound like it's a great idea and to almost justify their unhealthy behaviors and then people read it and they're like, oh, that sounds good. But behind the scenes, these people are destroying themselves. their bodies, destroying their minds. It's awful. There's like this fear now, this fear around food. And whether it's individual ingredients or it's like the seed oils or it's, if it's not grass-fed meat, don't touch it. Yeah. Process foods. It's like there's fear around everything. Yeah. Like, what do you eat? What can you eat? Today we got Jordan Siot back on the podcast.

Thank you for having. me. I'm excited to be back. Dude, I'm very excited to be back. I drove through some crazy storms on the way here this morning. But very excited to be back at BPN. Yeah, we were, it's global running day today. Okay. June 5th. So the BPN team was in Austin. We ran this morning. Yeah. As I was coming back north towards Round Rock to the office. Yeah. I saw all those crazy storms coming in. It was nuts, dude. I got this car service because I can work in the car on the way here. So this guy was driving. And I don't know how. he was looking out the windshield.

Like, it was just complete torrential downpour, insane thunder and lightning. The storm's this whole month have been nuts. But yeah, I'm here. I'm safe. It's an amazing place to be. I love coming here. So someone drove you down here so you could work in the car? Yeah.

Yeah. That's smart. Yeah. It's much, I mean, it's honestly, it's way more convenient. And like, it's about a four hour drive that I can get a lot of work done on. So. That's super smart. Yeah.

Do you do that frequently? Yeah. Anytime I have a longer drive, I'll just, there's a bunch of different car services. But yeah, I'll just hire one. And yeah, it makes it much more convenient. I should do that more often, actually. It's a productivity hack.

Yeah. And, you know, I don't like talking on the phone while I'm driving or like if I've got to do programs or even social media. Like, I did a Q&A for most of the ride. And it just like, that's worth more than I paid for the car service. Just to be able to answer 15 people's questions publicly. Like, that's worth the car service in and of itself. Smart.

Yeah. Well, first thing I wanted to ask, because since you came on the podcast last time, I followed a lot of what you're talking about, what you're working on. You got a baby on the way, just what we do as well. Yep, yep. But you did this intentional blood sugar spike weight loss diet experiment. Yes. I want to learn and hear more about that.

Yep. Lane Norton was just on the podcast. Yep. He's awesome. two weeks ago. And I categorize you and Lane, kind of in the same area of the fitness industry, where it's no bullshit,

yeah. Cutting through the truth. She's much smarter than I am, but yes, yeah, I agree. But you both, like, are holding the torch. Thank you. Of what is real and true. Yeah.

And I brought this up with Lane, asking about people wearing continuous glucose monitors and scared about spiking their blood sugar. Yep. Because it's a pretty hot topic and it has been for a hot minute now. Because I wore a CGM for a little bit. Okay. Just curious.

Yeah. What led you to do that? I think it's just because I saw all these people wearing CGMs. Yeah. Yep. And talking about how you could control your energy and control your blood sugar spikes and make this huge difference in your life. So I was just curious.

Yeah. I had no expectations or outcomes that I was trying to achieve. I just wanted to see what was all about. Tested out, yeah. So I tested it out, and I was like, this ain't for me. Did you learn a lot from doing it? It was like any, whether about yourself or about tracking blood sugar, that was interesting to you or that you didn't realize before?

Or was it all just like, no, this makes sense. It all made sense. Yeah, yeah. I wasn't like mind-blown by anything. But I'm curious, why did you do it? Yep. What did you do? What was it?

What do you learn from it? Yeah, so... I like to run experiments on myself because, for example, Lane, like I said, is way smarter than me. And one of the things he's very good at is he's like, I'm going to show you the research. I'm going to break down which research is high quality, which research is low quality. I don't explain why this research is what this research is telling us. And I love that. I feel like Lane is much better at that than I am.

What I do, what I think I do really well is I'm going to actually run this experiment on myself. and I'm going to do it to show people what the research might not be showing you in terms of like anyone nowadays can go to PubMed and find any research article regardless of the quality and say, look, this article supports my opinion. So I was like, you know what, screw it. I'll just, I'm going to do this experiment on myself to show you. So in 2019, I ate a Big Mac every day and lost weight over the course of that. I lost seven pounds over the course of that month to show people that you could enjoy

your favorite foods in moderation. Is that your favorite food? No, it's not. It was like, everyone knows McDonald's and supersized me, blah, blah, I was like, I'll just, dude, people lost their minds. And listen, I'm not saying this is healthy. I'm just showing you that you can enjoy your favorite food. I don't care if it's pizza or ice cream or whatever.

Like, you can enjoy your favorite foods in moderation and lose weight. And so for me, sometimes I feel like in order to make a simple point, you have to do something extreme to show people. And like, there's no, most people aren't going to read a PubMed. They don't know how to read a PubMed. They don't have access to the full studies. They don't know what actually good research looks like, which I think Lane does a really good job of educating.

people. But I did that in 2019. I did the carnivore diet experiment in 2020. And this time, and I've done a number of experiments, but this time recently, glucose, blood sugar has become such a huge, huge buzz topic. And it's funny, it's very Dunning Kruger. I see people who know very little bits about it, acting incredibly confident in their ability to articulate its importance. And so- Isn't that the fitness industry as a whole? Yes. It's everyone, like, They get one snapshot of something and they think they're an expert in it. And so lately there's been a huge push towards blood sugar being the reason why people can't lose weight, da, da, da, da, da. And so I was like, you know what, screw it.

I'm going to get a blood sugar monitor. I'm going to get a CGM. And I'm going to deliberately spike my blood sugar every single day. And sometimes it was ice cream. Sometimes it was donuts. There was one day where I literally took a quarter cup of pure raw sugar and just ate that. and just every day I would do something different. Sometimes it was gummy worms, spike my blood sugar every day.

And I would show the blood sugar spike and it would track it. And they would go pretty nuts. And I lost 12 pounds in a month, which is insane, especially because I'm a short dude. I'm like 5'4 on a good day, closer to 5'3 realistically. I went from like 152 to like 140-ish in 30 days. And people again, they're like, lost their minds and da-da-da-da-da-da. I was expecting glucose goddess to message me or make content about it, but she just didn't even recognize it. Probably smart on her end because it would have

shown her audience. Definitely. Definitely. So she was smart just to ignore it. But I did it for 30 days. And as soon as I was done, took the GEM off. I'm never going to use it again. I will say the thing that I learned, and I've always understood on a very like surface level. or on a knowledge level what diabetics have to go through, both type 1, type 2. But to actually be tracking my blood sugar meticulously, and I did the CGM, but I also did the finger prick because I wanted to learn how to do that. And I wanted to go through the whole process, man, the respect that I have for diabetics, and especially for parents of young diabetics, like if your child, your young child is

diagnosed type 1 diabetic, and you essentially have to function as their pancreas now and constantly keep track of their insulin and their blood sugar. waking them up in the middle of the night. Or like, I was doing it on myself, and it was a learning curve to keep track of it. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to be a parent of one of them or to be a child with that. So the biggest thing I learned was the huge amount of respect

that I have for those individuals because they have to do it all day, every day. It never stops. If you're not a diabetic, though, God bless, you don't need to worry about it. You're fine. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Steph, my wife, her brother, is the type one diabetic. Is he? Okay. He actually didn't become diabetic until he was in college. Really? Which is very rare and unique. Yeah.

So he was older when he had to start actually giving himself insulin based off his blood sugar and carbohydrate intake. But yeah, I mean, I think these younger kids who don't understand or know what's going on, having this responsibility, and that responsibility is keeping yourself alive. Yes. With insulin. That's scary. It's a lot for a younger child.

And I don't think, I mean, maybe I'm just speaking for my younger self, but as a kid, I don't think you can fully understand what that means and like the damage that can happen to your body if you're not taking care of it, if you're not like properly monitoring it, which is why, you know, if you're blessed enough to have a wonderful parent who's watching over you. But as a kid going through that, man, like, I think it would be very easy. to just sort of wave it off. You don't want to be different maybe.

You don't want to have to feel like you're broken, so maybe you just don't stop doing it. And it can create real problems. So, I mean, I learned a lot throughout the experiment, but the thing that stood out the most was if you are not a diabetic and you are blessed to have your body functioning properly from that perspective,

I don't even think about getting a CGM, not to mention all the issues with shortages of CGMs now, prices for them going up, so people who actually need them, aren't able to access them. Yeah, it was a great learning experience for me from that perspective. That is one of the concerns and pushbacks I've heard from the diabetic community. Yeah.

Is that as blood glucose monitoring and CGMs become more popular, there's actually, it's creating issues for people who actually need them. Correct. At the prices they can afford them at. Correct. And I've heard it's a big issue because even when I, bought one and just tested it out, I actually received a lot of criticism from people.

Yes. Some of those being diabetic saying, hey, like, if you don't need this, I know people who actually need it and we're not able to get it right now. Yes. I felt really bad. Dude, I got a bunch of those messages.

That's why a huge part of my, when I made a YouTube video on it, like a huge part of it was me saying, like, I know that it looks like I'm breaking the rule, but like, please don't buy it. And like my main message, one of the main messages was, if you don't need it, don't get it.

don't get it. It was like 300 bucks a month for that CGM and like for the service. And to be fair, it was a good service. I had a great coach who was working with me. And it was funny because I didn't tell her early on what I was doing. I just wanted to actually get an accurate picture of the service. And then apparently someone who works at the company follows me and saw that I was using them. And so then they brought my name up at a meeting. And then my coach realized who I was and she DM me. She was like, why didn't you tell me you're doing this experiment? But like, it's a main message that I wanted to get across was, if you're not a diabetic, you don't need this.

What was really interesting to me as well, I've studied nutrition my whole life. I went to school, studying nutrition, and I've always been told that your blood sugar spikes dictate your energy. I was going to ask about that. Bro, no correlation with me, with me, at least, and I think everyone's different, obviously,

but no correlation between my blood sugar spike or blood sugar dips and energy. None. I noticed the same thing, or didn't notice Isn't that interesting? Yeah, like the carbs, the amount of carbs that I consume or the type of carbs I consume does not affect my energy levels. At all.

If anything does affect my energy levels after a meal, it's the size or the bolus of that meal. Yes, dude. So if I eat a lot, I'm typically more lethargic. If I eat something less tense or light, it doesn't even matter if it's like more calorically dense, but volume-wise. Yep. Those larger meals, knock me out. That's why after Thanksgiving,

everyone's asleep. Exactly. You got Terry Black's barbecue in Austin. You're in a coma. Exactly. And that makes sense to me from an evolutionary perspective as well, when you're very full and fed, regardless of blood sugar, it's like, cool, I can relax.

I don't need to be out searching for food. But, like, feeling relatively light, you didn't really fill up. Well, and cool. and you have more energy to keep doing whatever you need to do. So I have the exact same experience where blood sugar did not correlate at all. It was also really interesting because the foods that were honestly like some of the quote of quote, quote, healthiest, spike my blood sugar the most. And the foods that weren't considered like healthier clean foods didn't spike it nearly as much.

The one that spiked my blood sugar the most was watermelon. I saw that video. Dude. It was like two pounds of watermelon. Yeah. Spike my blood sugar. most out of everything. And I love, like, that's my main food. If I need to go on a cut, like if I want to lose body fat, that's my main carbs. Like, it's one of my main foods.

It fills me up. You'd have like 140 calories for a whole pound of watermelon. And it spikes my blood sugar like crazy. But it fills me up. I feel incredible. And there's no issues whatsoever. But like, it's funny. Ice cream or even a crispy cream donut didn't spike it as much as watermelon. That's interesting. Yeah. What kind of chloric deficit were you in? Severe. It was? Yeah. You have to, especially. you know, five foot three, 150 pounds or so, like, I have to be in a pretty severe deficit to lose 12 pounds in a month. So, yeah, I was close to like an 800 calorie a day deficit diet,

like, which was, you know, not fun. I was pretty hungry. And it made it even harder because usually the things that would spike my blood sugar were very calorie dense. So that would take up a huge portion of my daily nutrition. So, yeah, it was not fun. You know, when you work with a a lot of clients for a lot of people. Do you get a lot of questions of push back on fruit? Do you get people asking, like, how much fruit can I consume? Because it's very dense in carbohydrates and sugar and all these things. Yeah. So I get that not from my, like, my clients or members. It's more from people who are new to following me. Because by the time they end up becoming, like a member of my program, they usually know that, listen, I say all the time, how many people do you

know who got fat from eating fruit? I think it's one of the reasons people resonate with me and they want to do my program. But when people are new to following me and they'll see me in my story having watermelon or, God forbid grapes, grapes are demonized all the time, which is just so funny. It's like it's fucking grapes. People ask that all the time. How much fruit can I have? I'm like, listen, I think you should ask fewer questions about fruit and more about like the lasagna that you're having every single meal.

Like that's a big problem. Like if you're having pounds of lasagna every day, I'll never forget one of the things that I would do if someone is having trouble losing weight is I would have them take pictures of their meals for 72 hours and send them to me and this person was telling me how many calories they were eating

and I was like okay cool, that's fine like it sounds great can you just send me pictures of everything you eat and they sent me pictures of their lasagna and it was like on a lunch tray and I was like how much of that you're not the whole thing

like okay your calories are quadruple what you're saying they are and so yeah listen you can't eat unlimited of really anything, like, but most people are not overeating fruit. That's a hard part with people who start tracking calories, their macronutrients early on is, I think portion sizes. I mean, even when I was tracking my calories, you know, for example, if it's not an exact food

item, it's not an apple, it's not a banana, it's not a piece of chicken, it's something that has multiple ingredients, like lasagna, for example. Yes. Yeah. Think, well, what is one serving? It's tough. It's tough, yeah. And if you really want to be accurate, then you weigh each ingredient that you have and then

you put it all together. The way I would do it is I would weigh each ingredient and I'd put it all together and then I'd divide it up into however many servings it was. And now I had a very accurate idea of how much each piece was. But even then, it's not exact, right? You're never going to know to the exact. I don't want you to know to the exact calorie. It's more of a range.

But I think of it like when you're driving on the highway, you're not looking at the speedometer the entire time. You generally have a good idea of within a range of what speed you're going within like five to ten miles per hour, but you don't know exactly how fast you're going. And over time for driving for years and years and years, you can know generally by how it feels and how it looks outside, like how fast you're going. Same thing with calories. You don't need to know every single calorie.

But you do it for long enough, you're going to be able to look at a plate and know probably within 100 calories what's on the plate and how much you need in order to hit your calories for the day or if you're going too far over or under. It's just you don't need the precise. It's just a little bit. Well, it's probably actually dangerous and it's going to do more harm than good if you're trying to be. Yes. Exactly. Yes. Agreed. I mean, there's been seasons in my life where, like, if I was planning to eat 400 grams of carbs in a day, I was going to eat 400 grams of carbs in a day, I was going to eat 400 grams of carbs. It wasn't $399 and it wasn't 401.

Yep. Now I would do some crazy shit to make sure I hit 400 grams of carbs. Yes. Which it just kind of segues me into what I wanted to talk about next. I think this is really relatable, not just to me, but other people as well. You had this post on your Instagram talking about you in 2016. Okay. Yeah.

It was the IG mirror photo. Oh, yeah, yeah. And it said like very low body fat, elite power lifter, zero. balance in life, not going out to restaurants, wasn't enjoying food, had missed a workout in over five years. Yep. But you felt miserable, chronically tired, hungry, anxious, never liked the way you looked. Like, what was the headspace, the mindset then?

What happened? How did you get there? And then we can talk about kind of how you got out of that. Man, there's so much that got me there. I think, so number one, like growing up, like, Like, as a young boy, I always wanted abs. Like, I always wanted abs. Like, I would always, like, look at the dudes with abs and be like, God, I just, I want that.

You know, I wanted to impress the girls. I thought that girls would like it if I had abs. And it turns out it's only other dudes that like it. If you have other abs, like, girls just don't care. I had a severe disorder relationship with food from wrestling, cutting a lot of weight, really messed me up. And, like, you and I were talking about earlier, that was, like, the one thing I had control over my life at home. with my parents.

My home life was not really great in terms of like my parents were, it was not a good marriage. They ended up getting divorced, which was a great thing when they finally got divorced. But home life was bad. So really the only thing I control was my training and nutrition. And so to have complete control over that was freeing for me. And I also, when you're getting into the fitness industry, especially now getting into it, it's a little bit different. Back then in 2010, 11, 12, 13, if you weren't shredded, it was weird.

And like, you wouldn't have respect. And even now it still happens. Some people like, do you even lift bro? But like, it was even worse then. And back then, for example, a lot of fitness professionals were doing photo shoots. And they would go through crazy cuts and crazy preps in order to look a certain way for their photo shoot. and they would take a year's worth of photos on one photo shoot. So then the entire year, they could post all these pictures on social media,

but even though they didn't look like that all the year round, it would appear as though they did. So, and then on top of that, I was a competitive power lifter, and basically my entire life revolved around training and nutrition. That was all I thought about is all I did. So for it also gave me a job. Was it because you loved it or because you were just all consumed Both. I think it started out as something I loved, and then it became something that I feared

to let go of. It started out as something, I love this so much, this is the greatest thing, and it became something that became such a huge part of my identity that the fear of letting it backtrack became very scary and omnipresent in my life, in my mind. The idea of going out to a restaurant and not hitting my calories for the day was petrifying. The idea of of gaining body fat was petrifying. So it was a terrible situation to be in. And it was crazy because while in my mind I'm suffering, I'm on the outside, I'm getting so much positive reinforcement for it.

Where people are like, God, you look good. I just want to look like that. How do I do that? You're so disciplined. And it was funny. People would pat you on the bag and be like, you're so disciplined because I hadn't missed a workout for five years. And I wore it like a badge of honor.

And people were like, I wish I had your discipline. In my mind, I'm like, I wish that I could just like relax a little bit. Yeah. But you're giving me all this positive reinforcement. And my business is doing better because of all of this. So I had a financial incentive as well to keep doing it because it's like business kept growing. The more I did that stuff. So the idea of losing or gaining body fat or taking my foot off the gas was so scary from a mental perspective, emotional perspective, physical.

Like it was a really, you. I was stuck between a rock in a hard place. It was very difficult. So what was it, what moment that you finally were able to say, okay, enough is enough? I'm done killing myself, feeling crap and not living my life. There needs to be a change. Yes.

Is there a breaking point? There were a number of breaking points. I think so the first breaking point was, because I was binge eating like crazy. Wrestling created a terrible eating disorder where I was severely binge eating. almost every day, if not every single day. And the thing about binge eating is, like, I looked like that.

I was shredded, but I would, no one saw me doing it because I would do it at night when I was alone. Or, like, because I was living at my mom's place back then. I was trying to save money. And, like, she would go to bed, and I'd go in the kitchen, and I would eat everything. And my mom, she just was like, oh, it's just like a young man just eating everything at night.

Like, but she didn't understand what was actually going on. And so she'd wake up in the entire, like, the entire sleeve of bagels would be gone. Everything in the freezer would be gone. Like, tubs of ice cream. Like, everything was gone. Did you have, like, a go-to binge? I never struggled necessarily with binge eating.

Yeah. But with, I had an eating disorder around it's younger. Yeah. But from people I've met, they've had, like, a go-to binge. Did you have a go-to or was just, like, anything? Whatever was there. It was really whatever was there. I mean, if there was peanut butter, that was gone.

The whole jar? Oh, yeah. Like, that on bagels, gone. peanut butter on bagels and the whole sleeve of bagels would be gone easy um if there were like frozen french fries in the freezer like making those whole bag gone like tortilla chips gone pretzels were gone like i couldn't have pretzels in the house because the whole thing would be gone those were the main ones um i was definitely more savory i still am than sweet i like salty and savory stuff as opposed to sweet on the same way yeah it's just like french fries and chips

like I'm good. That's all I want. Yeah. But I was binge eating severely and I was like 20, 21. And I remember after this one like horrendous binge, I just went in my bathroom at like, I don't know, it must have been two or three in the morning. And you know, we were talking about feeling full. When you were really struggling with binge eating,

it's very hard to feel full. And so you eat until a point where it's like, it's actually painful. And so I remember I was looking at the me. and I was just like, I said to myself, I looked myself in the eyes in the mirror and I was like, that is the last binge I'll ever have. I'm never doing this again. And at that point in my life, I was intermittent fasting, but intermittent fasting, it's not bad. It's fine if you want to do it. But if you have binge eating, it's a terrible idea. It essentially perpetuates the binge eating

because you don't eat all day, thinking that you can eat more at night. And then you end up binging at night because you didn't eat all day. And then you fast the next day to make up for the binge at night. And it's a terrible cycle. So for me, I realized I was scared of having breakfast. I was like, I'm so scared of having breakfast because in my mind, if I had breakfast, then I was still going to binge that night. So I can't have breakfast. I have to fast in order to save room for those calories. And so I was like, my number one fear right now is having breakfast, which is logically so stupid because for years, people have eaten breakfast and been totally fine. So my role was I have to eat breakfast. Like, that's what I have to do. And so the

next day, I had my first breakfast in years. And I actually posted it on my Facebook page. I was like, first breakfast in years. I didn't say, like, It's to recover from binge eating. I didn't tell people I was binging at that time. But I was like, this is my first breakfast. And I haven't binged since. It was 2014. Something on those lines.

It was my last time I binched. It was the breaking point. Look myself in the mirror. Last one. And thank God, that's a blessing because some people struggle with it forever and have trouble to overcome it. But that's all it took. Not doing it again, having breakfast. And I haven't been in sense.

I've actually, I've met a lot of people. And, you know, like for myself previously having an eating disorder, I can spot someone who has unhealthy relationships with food or eating disorder instantly. Yes. Like you just pick up on the behaviors. Yep. You see the thing. And I've found, and maybe you agree, same thing, but sometimes people who,

intermittent fast, use it in a way to justify unhealthy behaviors with food. I've met people who will do the thing where they intermittent fast in preparation for a massive binge. Maybe they're going to dinner. They're like, I'm going to dinner. I'm going to binge. Or like after dinner, I'm going to binge. And then for like one or two whole days afterwards because they've binge so crazy, they fast. But they already had this like, they'll tell me like, hey, I'm going to fast today because I'm going to eat so much tonight.

I want to save room. And now I'm going to, I'm going to fast the next two days. So they're already planning it out. I'm like, you do realize, like, that's not normal. Correct. That's actually a problem. That's an issue. That's a disorder.

Yeah. It's a disorder. Yeah. I used to approach holidays the same way. When I was younger, like say it was Thanksgiving or Christmas, I'm not eating all day until this. And like I would do that. I'd fast and be starving.

And then I would eat like three or four plates. Yeah. Feel horrible for the next two days. Yep. Now the way I approach, whether it's going to dinner or a birthday or Thanksgiving, I eat like I normally would. Yes.

Leading up to that day, I go, I make a big plate of all the things I want. And I'm typically pretty satisfied after that. Yep. Maybe we'll have dessert later. Sometimes I won't. But I'm not like, I'm not putting the focus of that entire day around I'm going to binge for I'm going to eat so much.

A hundred percent. But if your entire day is built around like how much you're going to stuff down your face, that's a terrible relationship with food. I think you're 100 percent on point. Eat normally throughout the day. Don't overly restrict. Like, do what you normally do. Focus on protein. Focus on fiber.

Eat like a normal day. hydrate, when you go, enjoy yourself. And like, maybe you overeat by a few hundred calories, or God forbid a thousand calories, like, cool. But if you starve yourself and fast and fast and fast, and then you binge, it's way easy to eat several days of calories in that one meal, feel like garbage, and then fast the next few days to try and quote unquote make up for that damage. This is what I see with a lot of people who are like, I'm doing 72-hour fast. I'm doing like a week-long fast. I'm like, what did you just do? Yes. I'm like, you just did. something that you're not telling us.

That's what keeps coming through to me as these long duration fast are coming out. I know you just did something you're not proud of. So now you're showing us. I love the sauna, but they're in the sauna. They're like sweating it out, fasting for three days, just using salt. I'm like, okay. But what meal did you have the day before the fast started? For sure.

Or like they've reached a point where they want to lose so much weight. Yeah. They don't want to slowly do it. It's like, hey, let me get as low as possible of the next couple days, build off that base. Yes. That's the same other person who asks, you know, should I, should I lose weight first

before trying to build muscle? Yes. Build muscle first before trying to lose weight. So let's just do both the same time. Exactly. Let's start strength training and eat an healthy diet and your body composition will change, but you don't have to do one

to set the conditions before you do. do the other. Correct. Yeah, it's exactly right. It's dangerous. I don't think people realize how dangerous it actually is. And Lane talks about this a lot as well to bring him back. Like, dude, eating disorders are a major, major issue, a mental health problem that is one of the leading causes of people taking their own lives or death as a result of it. Like, it's a major problem. And you and I were talking about before, the fitness industry does a great job of masking it. People who are like very famous or very well known and who have these insane physique. and they do these crazy things, and they package it up and put a bow on it to make it sound like

it's a great idea and to almost justify their unhealthy behaviors and people read it, and they're like, oh, that sounds good. But behind the scenes, these people are destroying themselves, destroying their bodies, destroying their minds. It's awful. It's tough because people are, there's like this fear now, this fear around food. And whether it's individual ingredients or it's like, the seed oils or if it's not grass-fed meat, don't touch it.

Yeah. Process foods. It's like there's fear around everything. Yep. So like what do you eat? What can you eat? Correct. Yeah.

It's at a point where I could go on Instagram at any point in time and easily within 15 minutes find one video saying carbs are bad for you. Find another video saying fat is bad for you. Find another video saying eating too little is going to make you fat. Find another video saying that like, You need to have hydrogen water. Like, it's unbelievable. Like, I could find numerous videos basically demonizing every single thing I'm going to eat that day.

It's no wonder people are confused. And then, man, these videos that piss me off the most lately are when people are going in grocery stores and these influencers are going to grocery stores and being like, you should never eat this food. This food has this ingredient. I'm like, man, they're just doing it for clicks and views. And they don't even believe it because when they get clipped like in their home opening up their fridge, they've got another food with that ingredient in it. And it's like I think what a lot of people who don't make content really need to understand is when a content creator makes a piece of content that does really well from the perspective of a lot of likes, a lot of follows and a lot of views, they will repeat that strategy over and over and over again.

And oftentimes they will do things not because they're spreading good information or because they believe in what they're saying, but simply because what they're doing is working from a business perspective. And they can play all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince themselves that what they're doing is right and it's helping people when the reality is it's causing more harm than good and they're actually only focused on the business result of it. And they don't realize that the people watching their content are taking what they're saying at face value. and it's actually harming their life. And it's harming their relationships and it's harming their body. One of the things that Lane and I talked about, he used the phrase that people walk over rocks

to pick up pebbles. Yes. Or another way to say, people walk over dollar bills to pick up pennies. And the way I approach this podcast, for example, and the reason I keep bringing you on like the same guests for second and third

and fourth times is because I don't want to be this platform that is just finding the person who has this narrative around this new thing that's popular, trending, and hot to hear their side, which is the pebble picking up because there's less people

we're talking about the rocks that were stepping over, or the dollar bills that we're stepping over. And the reality is you can only say that in those things in so many different ways and forms. It's true. So it's easier to talk about behaviors because the mechanisms oftentimes don't matter. Yes. They're not going to make these

like game changing trajectories in our life. So a lot of things that we talk about around nutrition, even training and diet, they're pretty fundamental. Yes. They're principles. But there's not these like mechanisms that like, holy shit, it's 2024 we just found out about this one food that's going to change your life. Exactly. I highly doubt it. I doubt it. People, you know, it's so funny. People, especially with how social media works now, it's very easy for people to get duped into thinking that there is that one special thing,

that one special trick. And man, they want to believe it. They really want to believe it. They'll do anything except the basics and fundamentals to like just grasp on to that one special thing that's going to make it easy. I mean, I see it in business too. I see with business people in the mainly fitness because that's what I'm in. but coaches who will berate clients for taking the easier out or like going for that fast six-pack, whatever it is, doing the juice cleanse or whatever it is.

But then this business owner will do the dumbest shit to try and make as much money as quickly as possible and forget the foundations of what got them there in the first place. Or if they haven't even gotten there to begin with, like, how about you just try posting content regularly that helps people for like three months? Because then I'll go look at their social media, and they've posted two times in the last 90 days. And one of them was a picture of their truck. And the other one was a picture of their dog. It's like, why do you think anyone's going to want to have you coach them if you're not helping them on a consistent basis?

And I'm sure it's not just fitness and business. But considering those are the two main things that I'm in, I see it all the time, that people are just looking for quick fixes all the time. It's like I was explaining to you this past year of all the mass that I went through. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man. The things that I've learned in that process, there's like three things that matter in building business, brand, product, and people. I love that.

Neither of those three things are really sexy. Yep. But if you focus on those three things, brand, product, and people, and you do it consistently over a long period of time, you're probably going to reach levels of success. Now, you might get luckier than someone else in another industry based off of, what you're doing, your opportunities. There's chance for everything. But in this last year, as I've worked with,

mentors, advisors, investment bankers, private equity groups, they come in and they have these ideas. They think are game changing. And in my head, I'm like, in the beginning, I was like, oh, we should definitely try that. And you finally realize,

you have no clue what you're talking about. You have no clue what you're talking about. It's true. Remember I had this one guy, come in and his like game-changing idea. And this guy, he had a credible resume.

Yeah. I mean, he was the CEO of some massive organizations. And he's sitting down with me. He's like, you know, Nick, you have about a million followers on social media.

BPN's account has about, at the time I think he'd be like 260,000 followers. My strategy would be to get your followers to follow BPNs. And I'm like, I had to play nice. I'm shaking my head like, wow, that's a great idea. And in my head, I'm thinking, are you freaking kidding me? That's your.

You don't think I've been trying to do that because I started this business? Like, come on, dude. Bro, that's amazing. I can't wait for your book on this. A whole book. A whole book. Let me ask you a question. Because I always like to hear other people's thoughts.

I love the brand. product people. I think that's genius. Boil it down into absolutely the three most important things. When you think about brand, what do you think about? Because I hear other people talk about it and not necessarily people who own their own business, but I hear people throw the word brand around. And sometimes when I hear someone using the word, I don't feel like they even know what they're talking about when they say that word. So to you, what is brand or like what's your your brand. Brand is a motion. I think people think that brand is just a look. So they'll invest all this time in the aesthetics of their packaging and their logo and the colors in the website.

And it looks pretty. And it looks cool. But it's one of those things that it's a bad brand is a present you get on Christmas. that is like packaged perfectly, crisp edges, nice bow, and you open it up and there's nothing inside. A really good brand has mission, it has messaging, there is feeling, there is emotion that is spark, there is connection, there is storytelling. It has a heartbeat. I love that. The true brand is alive. And you can't buy that. You have to build that. to be very intentional with the building process. And if you can create an emotional connection between a business, the people in that business and the product and the consumer,

a real connection, you then have a brand. And they say that if you can then get your consumers to tattoo your mission on themselves, you have a really strong brand. And you have that. We do have that. Dude, the heartbeat line, that got chills. That's the best way I've heard to describe. It's got a heartbeat, and it starts off like a faint heartbeat.

Like, it's maybe you're the only one that can hear it. Yep. You're the only one that can feel it. And then you've got to, it gets stronger and stronger and stronger, the better you build it. But you've also got to keep it alive because that can die. It's a hard, it's hard to keep it alive. It's hard to keep it alive.

And I think the way you keep it alive is the whole team has to believe, but the visionary behind that brand has to truly believe in it. And that's what's going through this whole process this past year of working with private equity groups. Investment bankers, they're trying to get a deal done. They're trying to make money. They're trying to get a good return on their investment. They might not really believe or buy into the mission, the product, the brand, the people. And that's where there is this disconnection where if you try to scale too fast with the business,

the wrong people, the wrong partners who don't believe in what you're trying to build, it will crumble overnight. One of my favorite sayings is you build a brand in drops, but you lose it in buckets. That's genius. The wrong people will scoop that brand up and dump it right out. Not intentionally. Right. They just don't know better.

Right. And it's different if you're the one who's built it drop by drop. someone else can take those buckets and they didn't put those drops in. So like, oh, whatever. Like, they didn't make each of those buckets. Right. They come in and it's like, oh, cool, this is extra water. We'll throw this out.

We'll throw this out, whatever it is. But, like, you know each drop is your own sweat. And it's like you're much more careful to not throw those buckets out, which, man, that's an amazing analogy. The heartbeat and the buckets, man, I love that. I could see like a BPN logo with a heartbeat on it, like, as a great shirt or something. Well, it's the same with fitness and reaching your fitness goals. Yep.

It's easier to reach your fitness goals, going back to diet and training. If you're doing it a way that you love, find a system or an approach that you actually enjoy doing. Yep. Because you're going to have a connection to that process. Yes. And it's going to make it that much easier to consistently just keep building the drops because building the body you want, the life you want, the fitness you want, the health you want. It's not done overnight. Obviously, we all know that.

It's literally drip and drop by drop. But you can throw it away really fast. Dude, so fast. You can really throw it away fast. And it's, you know, there's so many parallels. It was funny. I really like Dave Ramsey, and he went on a whole fitness thing the day.

Like, he used, like, fitness as his analogy, which I just love because I think fitness and business and finances, they all go hand in hand. It's the basics over and over and over again, like with drops and drops and drops. Oh, it's the thing with fitness that's so interesting to me that makes it very unique is my goal, like you said, is to always, especially for someone who's not into, like for a newer person, just get them doing something and ideally find what they enjoy.

The difficult part, and this was really difficult for me as a young coach, because I loved fitness and I still do. I always love fitness, finding different modalities and ways to train. some people will just always hate it. There will be some people who no matter what, they will hate it. But that doesn't justify not doing it. And for those people, my mentality has become,

all right, maybe you're never going to love the modality you're using, but we need to find the one that you hate the least. Or it's just like, what can you just manage? What can you muster? I don't care whether it's maybe it's rock climbing, maybe it's dancing, whatever it is, we need to find what you hate the least so you can do this consistently. I have this conversation with family members and friends, and I've actually found that works well

to get someone who really hates it to do it because for them, they keep being told, I've just got to, I have to love it, but I never love it. It's like, cool, you don't have to love it. You're never going to love it, but fucking do it anyway and find the one you hate the least. Just make it happen because if you don't make it happen, bad stuff's going to happen. the older I get, and I'm young, I'm only 33, I know, but the older I get, I'm seeing people my age start to deteriorate. I'm seeing in the 40s and 50s and 60s and 60s. I'm seeing the difference between a 60 year old who works out and a 60 year old who doesn't. And bro, that is the

most motivating thing I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, because the things we do when we're younger set the foundation for what we, not who we are necessarily when we're older, but what we can do when we're older. Yeah. And what's tough around that is, yeah, you're in your 30s, I'm not going to be that guy. But then you wake up one day and you're 65 years old and you're like, holy shit, I am that guy. Yeah. I can promise you I'm never going to be that guy.

But me and Steph were at the pool or this weekend with Charlie and walk around the pool and I'm looking at all these other dads who are around my age. And like, I'm not judging necessarily, but I'm thinking, dude, you got to get healthy. Yeah. Yes. Like you are the protector, you are the role model for the family you are building. What is your performance? What is your health?

What is your body say about like what you prioritize? And I think some people are probably going to take that the wrong way. Like, oh, you go to the point you judge people? No, but it's a reality. Yeah. And it's, I think that the most important part to understand there is like it's not going to get easier. Like every day that goes by, it gets harder and harder and harder. You get more tired, your joints get more achy, you have less time on your hands. It's like, it's, you have to do it.

You have to find a way to start now, not so that you can be on the cover of a fitness magazine or so you can be shredded, but for your family and for yourself and for your community. So you can, and so you can be proud of who you are rather than hiding away. And like, dude, I've seen very close people in my life as they got older and older and older, not able to function. And as a result, because of not prioritizing their own health and fitness, they hide. And then their mental health declines their results of it. And they don't want to go out in public. It's just, it's a terrible cycle. And so it's not necessarily about being shredded. It's about being physically capable for you, for your family, for your community, and so that you can be present and be capable of

It was so crazy. I saw this amazing video. Probably the scariest video I've ever seen in my life. There was a guy who was turning 98, and he didn't know how old he was turning. He's 98. And so I think it was his son or something, or his grandson was like, do you know how old you are today? And the guy was like, 92? He's like, older.

And he goes, 93. Older, he goes all the way up. He's like, you're 98 today. And the guy goes, 98? Fuck that went by fast. And that was like the scariest line I've ever heard in my life. Yeah. But I could also really relate to it, even at only 33, where I'm like, it's went by fast.

It's like, it's scary. And it does go by very, you said, you know, just wake up one day. And all of a sudden you're 65. It's like, yeah, you're going to wake up one day. And God willing, you'll be 65. You know, it goes by fast. I was thinking about this other day. We were sitting in church.

And I was just thinking about the fact that sometimes I, for, forget that we're not here forever and we actually age. You just get caught up in the day to day of going to work, doing the work, doing the thing, making the money, coming home, having dinner, putting the kids down, going to bed, doing that over and over and over and over again. And before you know it, you're old. Yes. And you don't get a restart.

It's over. You don't even guaranteed to get to be when you're old. Yeah. I think about my mom, for example. Like my mom, she's a school teacher, and the year she was going to retire, she was looking forward to retirement so much, she got sick. She got cancer and she passed away. Oh, geez.

So literally the year she was planning on retiring. So I think about that where we planned for the future lives that we're going to live. with our kids and our family, but it's not guaranteed. It's not ever going to come. So. That's devastating, man. I'm sorry.

When was that? That was 2019. Actually, it was June 10th. Oh, wow. Almost exactly. Almost, you know, coming up in five days here, June 10th, 2019. Wow. And I always think about that where it's really easy to call up in our lives and forget that at some point,

we can't do the things we used to do. and it doesn't restart. Yeah. It's just done. Were you able to talk to her about that? Did she have any lessons or things she was trying to impart on you? Or like, what was that like? It all happened really fast.

It was January of 2019, she found out. It was stage four ovarian cancer. Oh, my gosh. It was a few months before my parents always come down here for our annual Black Friday sale to help pack orders. Yeah. So it was November 2018, she was down here with my dad, and she wasn't feeling good. Like her stomach hurt.

She was losing hair. She was like she was going back and forth with the doctor's appointments trying to figure out what's going on. January diagnosis, stage four ovarian cancer. In April, just a few months later, she got surgery. They opened her up. They tried to remove as much cancer as possible. I said it was everywhere. They removed 95% of it, and within weeks it all grew back.

Oh, my gosh. So then she went in the beginning of June, she went on hospice because she was in ICU from complications. Went to hospice. Me and my brother flew home. We were with my family for the last couple days. The one thing she said, did she pull me and my brother in? Me and my wife were engaged at a time. So we did a small ceremony.

We got married in front of my mom. Oh, that's amazing. Before she passed away. She said, if you ever want to see me again, love the Lord and teach your kids to love the Lord. Wow. There's the one thing she said. But she also, like, you know, as we were talking, she was just sad that she was going to miss this next chapter of our lives. Correct.

Yeah. Because it was about to get really exciting. She was going to retire. They were going to move down to Texas. I was getting married. My brother was about to get engaged and get married, you know, have kids, start these families. Yeah. She was looking forward to that.

She was probably looking forward to that for years and years and years. Right, yeah. And if you look to my mom, she was like an epitome of health. Eat healthy, worked out her entire life. She taught special education, coached Special Olympics. She was an aerobics instructor growing up. Her and my dad ran 5Ks and, uh, Super active people.

So finding out that she was the one that got cancer. Right. I instantly was like, oh, she's going to beat this. No problem. Obviously didn't. It was very aggressive. But you're not guaranteed that future. Yeah.

It was an eye-opener for me. Yeah. Did, and if I'm asking too much, tell me to do it's not. No, no, you're good. Has that brought in you closer to God, like what she said? For sure. Yeah. Me and Steph, we were, I was always a Christian growing up.

Yep. But I would go to church. I didn't have a relationship with God. Okay. After my mom passed away, we actually started being proactive and building relationships with God. Nice. And going to church more, many people, small groups, reading the Bible.

Yeah. Trying to learn and actually build a relationship as opposed to just being there in the Like, you know, we go to church, check mark, feel good for the week. Right, right. We're good. Right. But it was completely different than like the relationship we're building now and what we want to teach our kids and the foundation in our family.

I love that. So it was pivotal and changed my life for sure. That's amazing. That's really incredible. I mean, that's an amazing message to leave with. Yes. And to carry on to your kids. And it's the most important relationship you can build.

So I love that. Yeah. But I mean, it was a really, I think about it all the time, especially now that Charlie's about to turn two, we have a kid on the way. Like, man, my mom would have thrived so much in this chapter of life. Yeah. And that's where I feel really bad is she didn't get to experience that.

Correct. In your whole life, you're just like, you're planning for these experiences. Exactly. You know, I'll work now. to do this later. Right. I'll put this off now

because I know I'll have time later. You don't know. You have no clue. You don't know if you're going to have time. And that'll really give you perspective. And turning to that question probably on a daily basis is a very good idea to guide your choices in a way that's going to be something that makes you proud

and that leads you down a path that is going to be good for you, your family, your kids, your community. It's also tough, though, because you can't live every day like it's your laughs. Exactly. It's a tough balance. I mean, I will go through sprints where I'm work as a priority.

Yeah. You know, and like we're hammering on these projects and doing these things. I'll come up and get a breather for everyone once in a while. I'm thinking, all right, like what responsibilities have I neglected during this sprint? Yep. And then I try to do my best to give those responsibilities some time. Right. Yeah, but I by no means want to live, like, live my days in my life thinking I'm trying to maximize the day to have this ultimate balance. Right. Because I might die tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah,

I like the way that you were talking about balance earlier in the way that you approach it. Yeah. I mean, I think you and I are very similar in that way. And the idea of balance has never made sense to me in the way that I've seen so many people discuss it, which is like, I think most people view balance as equal parts of everything. It's like your balance, like your work is like you have this many hours of work and this many hours of family and this many hours of fitness. It's like, I don't know anyone who's fully balanced then. And like you were saying, you have these sprints or earlier you use seasons where you have seasons of this, seasons of that, that makes more sense to me. Where it's like sometimes

are to be more focused on this, and other things will not necessarily fall by the wayside, but you just won't have as much time for that exact thing. Almost like conjugate periodization, right? Where it's like you really focus on one thing and maintain the rest. And then focus on something else and maintain the rest. One of the best piece of advice I ever got was to the effect of out of work, friends, family, fitness, and sleep.

Out of those five things, you can only ever really feel. focus on three at once. And in my experience, it's really only two. Like, I've never been able to really focus on three of them at one time. Really two at most. And if I really want to go hard, it's just on one thing. And everything else is more in maintenance mode. And sometimes, like, for me, unfortunately, if there's something that's going to be in a deficit, it's basically always going to be sleep at this point in my life. And that might change in the future. But it's, it's very difficult. And I think actually impossible and unrealistic to assume that you can have a fully balanced life at all time. And I also think that sometimes in order to achieve balance,

you have to go through periods of unbalance. There have to be periods of time in which you are not balanced to then buy yourself the freedom or the ability, the intelligence, the strength within a relationship to then have balance. I don't think it's as simple as just like we just need to be balanced. Because if we look at the, even just the regular work week, It's inherently unbalanced. So you're already starting off unbalanced. And that's for their regular work. Never mind someone who runs their own business.

And, you know, I just don't think balance is real. How do you approach sleep? Because that's also what my default is always to put that at a deficit. Yep. Because I prioritize a lot of other things before that. Yep. And sleep is, it's like, it is valuable. It's super important.

Super valuable. I'm not ever. going to say, like, sleep is not important. But it's really hot right now. Yes, dude. It's really big. And everyone's talking about it. But what I've also found is that most people that are talking about it don't have kids.

Bro, that's so true. That is so, yep. Or like running a really demanding business. Yep. So what's your thought process on sleep knowing it's so important? Well, here's the thing. Why is it a deficit? Bro, it's so funny you say that because everyone's talking about how sleep is so important.

But when I'm actually talking with real people and not just some mouthpiece on social media, like real people, I don't know anyone who's an adult who's actually being like, oh yeah, I consistently get amazing sleep all the time. Like, I don't know anyone, any of my clients, any of my members, any of my colleagues. I don't know anyone who's like, yep, I get amazing sleep all the time. I feel like it's a big topic right now. And then people in the comments section are like, yeah, sleep. If you're not sleeping, you're an idiot.

And I'm like, you left that comment. at two in the morning. You're not fucking sleep. You've got your phone in your face at two in the morning. So I know you're not doing it either. So you'd have to be an idiot to argue that sleep isn't important. But I think that people, when there's a hot topic, everyone jumps on the bandwagon even if they're not following it. So for me, that is the first one to go, at least at this point in my life. And it's, I don't say it to brag. It's not something to brag about. but it's also, it's not even always necessarily an active or conscious choice as much as it is. That's just how it plays out.

It's the last thing in the day and I'm prioritizing everything else. And sometimes that everything else is watching TV with my wife. Sometimes that everything else is getting up early to go on a walk with my daughter. Like there could be any number of things. But for me, right now, it's between five to six hours and God willing, we're going to have a daughter in August and it'll probably be less than that for a little bit. It's like, cool. It's not something that I'm stoked about, but I'm going to have to do it.

So it is what it is, right? It's like I don't even know other than, yeah, I mean, there are probably, if I really wanted to find ways to prioritize it more, I could, but I'd have to give something else up, and I'm not going to. So I'm not going to complain about it, but that's just the reality of the situation. That's where I am too. Like five to six hours is what I'm getting most nights rarely more than six hours. Yeah.

That's a reality because the way I plan in my days is I forward think and I backwards plan. Yep. And I know there's things I have to get done. I'm rarely throwing something on my calendar that I want to get done. It's always needs. Yep. And then once. And in this phase of my life, there's like, there's no hobbies.

I was talking this one the other day. Like, yeah, I'm going on my third week-long golf trip. Oh, man. I looked over at Steph, I was like, where the shit is this guy finding time to go on his third week-long golf trip? Man, now you got kids. Like, what the shit? So I forward-thinking I backwards plan, and there's a lot that I want to get done.

and not even that I want it that I need to get done. And sleep is just, it falls where it falls. And it is what it is. Dude, that's exactly right. And everyone has their own struggles and different things going on in their life.

I think your business is a behemoth. I've got a handful of amazing employees. You've got like a city. You've got like an entire community of people. I've got a very small group of employees that I, like, I lose sleep over trying to take care of them. I don't know how you do it. You've got an empire is what you have. And it's insane to see, like, both times I've been here.

I'm like, oh, my gosh. And I know this is a fraction of it. So I think, you know, anyone who is a mother or a father who is concerned about, you know, taking care of their kids and providing for them could probably understand what it might be like to, okay, well, now I'm also taking care of. of not just these employees, but they're families. And they're like, I'm providing for them and how to, and if I'm going to lose sleep for my kids, I'm also going to lose sleep for my employees.

That's just how it works. For sure. You know? How did your approach to maybe not necessarily diet, but training change once you became a dad? And then how are you thinking about it moving into this next chapter were you got to two kids, because, like, me personally, my diet and training didn't change much with one kid. But I'm sort of planned for two.

And I think it's going to be shuffling, you know, some things around just to make sure I can get the workouts in. But my training goals have evolved. Yeah. Since becoming a dad. What happened to your goals? Really, it's, it's, I used to put these big, these big, uh, milestones on my calendar every year. Okay.

I'm going to go run Leadville 100. I'm going to do this Ironman prep that I know is going to be 20 hours of training a week. You're insane, man. Some of the these things that you do multi-day run, like it's wild, bro. They're big efforts.

But that comes with a big prep too. Yeah. Not just physically, but mentally as well. And when I did my bodybuilding show last year, that was a real eye-opener of what I don't want to do and what I want to do, moving forward as my kids are watching me set these goals and train for them and how present I am based off of the demands that require for these goals. So I love training. I always will

love training. I like challenging myself and going to hit a badass marathon PR or run an ultra through the Rocky Mountains in Leadville, Colorado. Yeah. But I have to be really intentional with when I do those now and how much time that takes away from the family and how present I'm able to be around those very challenging moments. So a lot of my training now has shifted more towards like I'm running. I'm running a lot. I'm strength training. I'm still strength training a decent amount. But my mindset when I go into a prep is completely different where this flip or this switch flips and now like that is a really defined priority of focus. So right now it's more generally around just training as opposed to a prep. That makes sense. Yeah, it's a very good distinction. You are,

you're a hell of a competitor. It's, it's really extraordinary. Appreciate that. Like, it's, it's insane. I'm not on your level at all. Even like sport aside, I'm just as a competitor, I'm not on your level. I think for me, in terms of actual training, the biggest thing that changed with my first daughter was the time I worked out. The way it was working for the first five weeks when she was really not sleeping at all, I was doing the feeding at like one in the morning. And so my wife could get a few hours of sleep at night and then she would get up around like, I don't know, like three or four or something.

So I would do the 1 a.m. feeding. And so I would just work out at like midnight just because I didn't want to go to bed at 10 and then wake up at 1. I was like, screw it. Like working out makes me awake. So I'll just work out at midnight. And so that was the biggest change that I had for the first few months. And then after a while, like she was sleeping through the night. So it wasn't an issue.

But my training didn't really change much except the intensity at midnight obviously wasn't as intense. But I was still, that's when I trained. and then now with two, maybe this is naivety or naivete, but like, I just, I'm not worried about it. It's if I have to train at midnight again, I'll train at midnight. I'm going to get it in. It's like it's not really a concern. It's just something that I'm going to do. In terms of my goals, I have a memory that just keeps popping in my head.

I played a bunch of different sports growing up, whether it was baseball, wrestling, soccer. and I was on this baseball team with my buddy. His dad coached it. His name is Derek Lowe. And his dad was our coach. And I remember his dad at that point probably was early 40s or something. And he would always play with us. Like he was playing baseball with us.

Like he wasn't just watched it. He would play. And he also played in an adult league. And I remember watching him play in an adult league. And there was one time where he was playing center field. and this other dad hit a super high pop fly and Mr. Lowe

ran through the entire outfield and slid and caught this ball and I remember watching that just being like that is amazing and I had no concept I was probably eight I had no concept of what being 40 meant

or anything but I remember just being like he's the only dad doing stuff like that and that memory for whatever reason is burned into my head from the time I'm like eight years old and so as a dad

I just want to do cool shit with my kids. Like right now I was telling you, we're bringing my daughter to gymnastics. She's been doing gymnastics for like six months now. She's a freak. Like she can do crazy stuff at almost two years old. She's fearless. My wife gets so mad at me because I just let her climb and like I'll let her fall.

But like she falls. She gets right back up. She keeps going and she can go on a balance beam. Like dude, it's crazy the stuff that she can do. and I want her and God willing our next daughter to be able to, I want to be able to do stuff with them. Like, cool shit. Like right now I've been working on my splits

because I want to hold both of them and like that Jean-Claude Van Dam, like my feet on chairs and hold them both on each leg and get a picture of that so that they can hang that in their houses when they're older. I just think they would love that picture. But I just want to do cool stuff.

That's really it. Like I want to be able to do gymnastics with them. I want to be able to do jiu-jitics. do and wrestle with them. If they go into dance, like, I want to be able to go into a ballet class and have the teacher be like, this dad is actually very good for having never done ballet before. I just want to be able to do anything they do and have them be like, that's my dad. Not like, oh, that's my dad.

You know what I mean? Is that part of the reason you've been so into mobility recently? Yes. Yeah. You want to be able to do like the picture, but also you want to be able to do the gymnastics with them as like your daughter is getting into that. Yeah, 100%. And like, I don't want to be just a spectator.

If they want me to, then maybe I will. But for example, let's say they want to do the gymnastics team. Like, I want to be an involved. I'm obviously not going to be the coach. But I want to be there. I want to be present. I want to be helpful if I can. Even if that means driving the kids around, making sure if a kid doesn't have a ride, cool.

Like, I want to be there and be helpful. And I want to have a gym at our house. and like we're building right now. And in the playroom, I'm, I'm going to put like a rock wall on one of the walls and just so that they can climb. And like, I want to, like, if I expect them to be able to do it, I better be able to do it. And they're going to learn best from watching someone do it. And so if they see me doing splits or they see me doing rock climbing,

or they see me doing jujitsu in the garage, like, if they see it, they're going to be way more likely to want to do it and also be good at it. Kids are so good at mimicking what they see. And so I just want them to be really excited. And I also want them, you know, when they get older, and not even necessarily being adult, but as they get older and they meet new friends and they're going to see like, oh, wow, like I really appreciate what my dad can do because most dads can't do that. Like, I think it's a wonderful gift to give them.

Yeah, I think about the future and the vision of my kids all the time. I'm a big planner. I try to like set these conditions to facilitate what they might like at one point. And my daughter loves being outside. As soon as she wakes up, she says, outside or car seat. She just wants to get out of the house. I love that. So let's just go.

So I was telling you before we hopped on this podcast, this Friday I'm going to look at some land. And I had this vision where I just want a plot of land that hasn't been a stream going through it. Yeah. Some big oak trees. I want the kids just like on a Friday night, me and staff are like, let's get out of the house. We go to this land.

There's maybe no house there. Do a bonfire. Yes. By the creek. We're like making dinner. Dogs are running around. It's like an ad for like a, yeah. Yeti or something.

But just creating the environment to facilitate the life that I dream we all live. but like the experiences and the opportunities of us just spending time together that's not in the house, it's not around a TV, it's not just like in our backyard, but it's like build, I want to build something with them. Yes. Together. Dude, I love that. I think that would be amazing.

And I also think it's as they get older and as they see other people, they'll really appreciate not just the land and not just, what you did, but that you were capable of doing it. Right? It's like when they look back on, you know, now, dude, I look back on like old pictures of me. It's like I've got to really try and find these pictures. Now they've got digital everything.

You've got videos on the cloud, all this stuff. They'll be able to easily find all the videos and pictures you've taken. When they see and they remember the stuff that you do with them, when you're running around this land and you're climbing trees and you're swimming in the creek, whatever it is, it's like, my dad at 40, 50, 50, 60. could do all of this crazy stuff. Then they're going to want to do it for their kids.

It's something they want to carry on. It makes sense. I think that is like the ultimate generational wealth is when you have generational health. When it's like you see your parents actively prioritizing their health and their capability and then you want to do the same thing for your children because that's what you had.

It's like I think that's the ultimate. I don't feel like it gets any better than that. Yeah, I agree with that. Like my dad, he just turned 61. And he's getting like this second wave of fitness. Where I was telling you, like, well, my mom before she passed away, her and my dad were signing up for like one mile races and five Ks. So my dad now puts on the calendar, the five case he does every year,

the half marathons he does. He'll text me being like, hey, I'm going for a one mile PR. What do you think I can do? What shoes should I wear? How should I have fuel? But there's a lot of other 60s. one-year-old guys I know who can't go run a mile. Correct.

And I remember my grandpa, who's my dad's dad growing up, they were all dairy farmers, so very active people in central Pennsylvania. He was probably in his 60s, early 70s maybe. And he would do, we had a pool in our backyard growing up, and he would do a backflip on that diving board. And I always remember that being like, that's my grandpa. Like, that's amazing. He's fit.

Yeah. But I also remember, and like, I think a lot of times people think fitness when you're old or going to a gym or running a race, but it's just being able to live life. Yes. So my grandpa, he'd be early 70s and he'd call me over to do mulch, mouche their yard, yeah, mulch their yard every year. So he'd take his truck, he'd get filled up with mulch, and then he'd be on his hand and knees in the flower beds, spread it.

mulch, throwing like all the mulch off the truck, jumping up and down the truck, very active, very fit. But it wasn't necessarily because he went to the gym or went for a run, but he stayed moving his entire life. It's so important, man. It really is. It's just the confidence that it gives you, the confidence that it gives your kids. It's crazy to hear that.

And then it's he like, you were telling me before, like, your dad is shredded. And, like, you and your brother are, like, beasts. It's like, it's carried down multiple generations. It's actually extraordinary. Yeah. It's amazing. It really is extraordinary to see that. And I'm sure your daughter and your son are just going to be beasts in their own right.

It's incredible. I think people can, uh, there's this term that I used a while ago. It was generational inflection point. Mm. Mm. You can be the generational inflection point in your family and shift the trajectory of everything moving forward. So say, for example, your family is unhealthy.

They don't eat right. They don't work out. They have hypertension, type 2, diabetes. Every disorder and disease is coming your way for generations to come. But you can be the inflection point that makes change. and you start working out and eating better and making smaller choices and that influences your family

and your family's family and your family's family family. Yes. You just shifted the generational outcome and disposition forever. Dude, that hits on with me because that's what I come from. My whole family, no one works.

I am the black sheep in the family. Like, no one works out, no one eats well. like when I was the only one who played sports so I was in special education my entire family is unbelievably smart teachers doctors lawyers professors all that but no one worked out and no one was into fitness I was the only one and so it was like I did a lot of sports but like no one at home would they could they couldn't play with me like so like I don't I was so blessed in so many ways. A lot of just God-given natural coordination and talent was able to get me. There were without a lot, like, we couldn't afford private coaches. And even if they could,

I don't think they would have been like, they'd have been like, no, you're going to do like more math. You're not going to like do more sports. Right. But like it is that that hits home with me because my whole childhood, I wanted that. And I loved sports and loved health and love fitness, but no one in my family did. And so that's exactly what I want to do. That's, describes exactly what I'm aiming to achieve with what I do because I didn't grow up with that at all. And everyone has that opportunity to be a person. It's really easy to fall into this rhythm and habit of think, well, my family comes

from this type of lifestyle and all my genetics are pointing towards that same lifestyle. So I'm just going to be another one because. nothing can change, but the reality is you can change it for everyone after you. Yeah, and man, when you look at it from that perspective, it's a huge amount of responsibility and a huge amount of motive. If you're looking for motivation, I don't think it gets better than that. Like to be the inflection point to change for generations to come, that's incredible. So where are your visions for you and your family decades down the road?

What are you trying to build right now? Man, I, so there's a lot that I'm trying to build. Number one, I'm trying to build to get to a point where I can go backwards in technology. So like, I just want a flip phone. Dude, you're speaking to me. I want the same thing. I don't want a smartphone anymore. Same.

It's like, so funny. There was so many, so for so many years because I started in 2011 with my online business. And I was wherever I would travel, I'd have my computer with me. And so I'd have different points. Like, okay, I want to be able to afford this computer. I want to be able to first get to a point where I can travel and not have to bring my computer with me everywhere I go. And then so there have been all these different points. And now I'm at a point where like, okay, now I want to go backwards.

Now I just want to have a flip phone and just like not be connected to the internet at all. So that is in terms of business, and this might seem very demotivational, but I love what I have right now in terms of, what I'm doing and who I'm serving, and I'm not looking to change it. I'm also not looking to grow it. With my business, I don't want to, I don't want an empire to be very blunt. And I look at what you have, and I'm like, dude, this is insane. And I'm also like, I don't think I could handle it emotionally. I don't think I could handle what you have. I want to continue to help people at a very, very, very affordable cost that improves their health and their fitness and their mental and emotional health. And essentially what that means is keep doing exactly

what I'm doing from a business perspective. And eventually slowly tapering off to where I don't need to post about it anymore. I could just help the people in my community without doing anything on social media. I'm sort of tired of that at this point. With my family. That's growth in itself, though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of people think that everyone's trying to build and grow their business.

Yeah. You ask the question why. A lot of times they can't answer. It's true. Well, it's just what you do. But you can grow personally and realize that, oh, growing my business will actually take away from other parts of my life that I put a lot of emphasis on. Yes.

That's growth in itself, though. It's true. I mean, if 22-year-old me heard me say that, be like, what the fuck did you just say? But it's true at this point in my life. And I'm blessed to be in this position where I can say that, honestly. Yeah, it's my buddy Pat Flynn gave me a really great piece of advice. I was probably 25 or 26. And he said, making more money will solve more problems until making more money causes more problems.

And there comes a point in which, like, you ask the question, why? why keep growing why make more money for what purpose and if you don't have a really good reason then it might be a point in time to change or to look at something else to prioritize and I for whatever it's worth I also use this is real like someone can easily come up with a reason and say well I need more money than I thought because this is what I'm going to need in order to sustain my life it's like you probably don't need that much you're probably changing your values you're probably now like okay you've made this much money so now you're still standard of living has increased now you're spending more money, but not on things that make you

happier, not on things that you actually need. It's things that you're, you've made up in your head that you need. In reality, you could probably cut down significantly and be equally, if not more happy. I heard Rob Deerick say once before that, there's a difference between being rich and wealthy. And there was this year where he made like $12 million. But he also spent $12 million. So he's like, I'm more poor than I've ever been in my life, even though I'm making all this money because his cost of living increases a rate greater than the money that he was generating. Man, that's a nightmare. Oh my gosh. That's a nightmare.

Yes. Yes. And family-wise, I just, I really just want to be the kind of husband and father that. that my family never questions, like, I'm there. If they need me, I'm there. There's just no ambiguity. There's no, can I ask him that? Like, everything is open.

Everything is on the table. You can always ask. And if you need me, I'm there. That's, like, the most important thing for me. For whatever reason. Like, you need me, I'm there. Period. end of story.

Whether it's a sports game, an event, whatever, I don't care if you need me on there. I just think that for a child, and when I say child, I don't even mean like they have to be a kid. They're your child or for a spouse. For them to know unequivocally that you'll be there, there will be nothing that stands in the way of you being where and when they need you, I think gives a level of support. and security that would probably make every one of those relationships much stronger, and it would make me more proud of myself as that role, like as a father or as a husband. That's what I think would make me the most proud being able to be there no matter what, which is, you know, I know,

like regardless, I know some people, some fathers who are unbelievably wealthy, and they can't say that they're there. And I know some fathers that are really struggling. And I know some fathers that are really struggling and they can always say that they're there no matter what and so i think um i just don't want other priorities to get in the way of the priority which i think is being there which is the main thing as a family guy yeah that's uh that's something i constantly struggle with and we're talking about this kind of before we start recording but the line between ambition and contentment yes and talk It's a lot. I don't know if I'll ever figure it out.

I don't because part of my ambition, as you were previously saying, part of my ambition is driven behind the responsibilities I have here in this business. Yep. Not just for myself and my family, but our team, our employees, their families. Yep. So I have to keep being ambitious because I feel the responsibility to provide more opportunities. and growth opportunities for them. Yeah.

But at the same time, I can't neglect my family. Correct. Which does happen in time to time. Just being very honest. Yeah. I'm aware of that. I'm trying to find how to straddle the two as best as possible. But it's tough.

Dude, I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't know if you ever figure it out. I don't know if that's something where anyone can be like, Oh, I've figured that out. I feel like it's a constant. It's like fitness. I don't know anyone who's ever got to a point where they're like, I'm good with my fitness.

Like, I'll just stay here. We hear the term maintenance a lot. But I don't know anyone who's like really in maintenance. Like we can be in maintenance from a body composition perspective, but not necessarily from a performance perspective. Like you always want to improve your performance in some way, shape, reform. And I feel like that's same thing with business and family. It's like you're always trying to navigate.

and figure out, well, what's next? Because life circumstances change. And every day is different, especially as a business owner. So that's one thing I've noticed as I get older. The older I get is the less I know and the less I'm sure of. And one thing I'm definitely sure of is that I don't know almost anything. And especially in terms of how I'm going to navigate all this stuff, it's just got to, for me, it's like keep the mission, the mission, the goal, which is at least right now,

I can't foresee this change. And like, be that father as best as I possibly can. Doesn't mean I'm not going to make mistakes. Be that husband as best as I can. Be that business owner as best as I can. Everyone makes mistakes. We're all going to stray. But always sort of like keeping that the goal.

And that is like the guiding light. It's like, okay, did I make the right choice? No, I didn't make the right choice. Now it's course correct type of a thing. We are programmed to want to build. Yes. You know, I'll go through a period of time where I'm telling the team, Hey, for this next two months, we're just going to hyper focus on this one thing.

Everything, everything else, every other opportunity, we're going to say no to. 60 days later, we did three events. We launched two new products. I'm like, how do we get here? We'll go through a year. I'm going into a year saying, all right, this baby's on the way. We're building this house. We're moving HQ.

No fitness preps for the next 12 months. I'm going to finish this 12 months. month, you know, time, chapter. I'm like, oh, I ran a marathon and ultra and another crazy thing. But it's because I, even when I'm in maintenance, I want to keep improving. Yes. I want to build. I want to get better. That's what drives me for. That's what fills my cup. Yes. I love to build. Yes. I have to be building something. It drives my wife nuts. I was telling her last night because we're building this house right now. Yep.

We're about to move HQ in the next 12 months. In Austin? Probably like right in this area. Okay, cool, cool. But we just want to consolidate everything. Yeah. We need more space. I was like, hey, I'm going to look at this land on Friday.

She said, okay. Let's just, let's just chill for a second. We're building enough right now. Every day she must be like, what in the hell is he going to do today? I am a visionary, though. So I'm always thinking of not necessarily the next thing. Yeah. But the story I was telling earlier about having the vision of my kids and the dogs being by the fire, near the water, on the land.

I visualize that. And then I start thinking, what do I need to do to make that happen? Right. The question is, you visualize it, you figure out what you need to do to get it. once you get it, do you enjoy it? No. I'm driven by dopamine. Yep, yep.

I've gotten better at, there's things I want, and I'll sit on it for a while. Yep. I'm like, okay, 30 days later, did I still want this? 60 days later, did I still want this? Whether that's... A tattoo.

A tattoo. That's a good one for a tattoo. Yes. A car. anything. Are you a car guy? I'm not. Okay, okay. But I bought a Corvette two years ago. Two years ago. And I put wheels, tires on it. Oh, wow. Wrapped. I mean, it looked like the Batmobile. I'll show you a picture then. It was wild. You don't have it anymore? No, because I got it and I drove it once. And I realized, I don't like this. No way. This is, I felt like a, I felt like a douche driving around in it. I was almost embarrassed.

I got all the windows extra tinted to no one could see me. That's so funny. And I sold it shortly after. That farm boy from Pennsylvania and he was like, what am I doing? Well, what would have, what would have fit me more was like an old Bronco. Yeah, yeah. Or a truck. But I just remember being this thing.

And there was a big learning lesson for me. Because you have so many learning lessons. I have so many learning lessons that have cost me so much money. But I get this Corvette in. And it wasn't this thing I've always wanted. It wasn't this wow factor. I just thought that's what I should do based off of where I was heading. Yep.

I get this car. I'm thinking, this ain't me. So you sold it? Sold it. Did you lose money on selling it? I broke even roughly. Okay, that's good. A depreciating asset, that's good.

We sold it really quick. But it just, it wasn't me, but I realized, sometimes the things that you want aren't the same things you're going to like once you get them. Yeah, man, it's so true. That's very true. And usually the things that, the things that you want that don't necessarily cost money

are the most important things. Yep. Like that being out in the woods, bonfire, It's funny, I've, over the last few years, probably the last two years especially, but ever since I turned 30, I've really been thinking a lot about my own death. And when I was younger, I never was scared of dying, ever. I was almost like, yeah, it'll happen when I'm old type of a thing, which is the most outrageous way to think and like the most quintessential young person mentality of like, it'll happen when I'm old. if you're blessed enough to get old, but now that I'm getting older

and I'm seeing more people dying and it's almost like coming to terms with my own mortality, I've been getting more scared of death. And I think especially since my daughter was born and I have another one on the way, the fear of dying has increased. And then I've started to have conversation myself

being like, why am I scared of dying? Like what? It's not like I'm scared of the actual death You know, it's more about what will I miss when I die type of thing. What will you miss? And then I started thinking, I'm like, okay, what will I actually miss? Like, what specifically am I going to miss? And then I think about, like, when I wake my daughter up and she says like,

Abba, like father and dad in Hebrew, she's like, Abba, like, I'll miss this moment. when I pick her up out of her crib, like this will be a moment that I miss. Or like when we're singing, like before we put her to bed, we say a little prayer and we sing a prayer and like the sun's coming through the window on her face. And she's like looking at me trying to figure out how to say the words. Like that'll be something I miss or playing outside on the water table. And it's so easy. It's funny because while those will be the moments that I miss, those are the easiest

moments for me to drift off and think about what I don't have. like actually in that moment where I'm like, I don't know, maybe someone said something on social media that pissed me off. So now I'm thinking about someone who doesn't matter, who doesn't know me, who I'll never interact with again, left an obnoxious comment. And now I can't enjoy the moment that I'll actually miss when I, that I'm worried about missing when I die.

It's a real mind fuck. I was listening to one of Jason Kleepa's podcast in preparation for him to come on in the podcast earlier this week. And he's talking about this rule, was a five-second, five-minute, five-year rule. Okay. Where if something happens to you, will it matter in five seconds? Will it matter in five minutes?

Will it matter in five years? That's amazing. And so many things, especially the things that we experience on social media. Dude, that's a genius rule. It will not matter in probably five minutes, especially not in five years. Yep. But if you miss your daughter's wedding or her birthday, I bet you'll think about that for five more years.

100%. So just using that as a... A litmus test, will it matter in five seconds, five minutes, five years, and applying that to things you decide to do or not do? Dude, that's genius. I like Jason a lot, and I had not heard that. I'm going to use that every day. I thought that was really good.

I love that. That's genius. Because a lot of things that we care about don't actually matter. At all. Like literally at all. It's funny. I had a moment like that. It was an eighth grade.

And my, it was an eighth grade. It was an eighth grade history class and Miss George Ellis. We were taking a test and she looks at me in the middle of the test and she was like Jordan come up here. And she takes my test and she rips it up. She was like, I saw you cheating.

And I got really mad because I wasn't cheating. Now keep in mind, I cheated a lot in school. That one in particular, I legitimately was not cheating. So I got even more upset. I was like, of course, the one time I'm actually being honest here, like you say I'm cheating. And I got really mad and we had to have a meeting with like the head of eighth grade

who was Mr. Lopez. Mr. Lopez said something that at the time I didn't understand but as I've gotten older it's made a lot more sense. I got a zero on the test. I couldn't retake it. And we're in this meeting

and Mr. Lopez, huge dude. He's like the football coach, huge, huge, really nice, sweet guy, huge. And he was like, in his deep voice, he was like, right now, this is a really big deal to you. Keep in mind it's in eighth grade. It's like, right now, this is a really big deal to you. He's like, by the end of the year,

you probably won't even remember what the test was on. At the end of a couple of years, you might not even remember this happening at all. This will just be a blip on the radar. And as I look back now, it's like, I don't remember what the test was on. I don't remember where I was sitting in class. I don't remember who else was in the class.

I know nothing. It's just like this huge deal, this thing that was everything to me is I was furious about. I don't even remember other than what Mr. Lopez said, which is like, this is barely going to be a blip on your radar, which is like, It's another way of saying that five second, five minute, five years.

I love the five five five rule. Like that's genius. It's a really great way to think about it. There's a lot of things that happen to me in my life where I think it's the end of the world. Yeah. And then I finally come to and I realize, I'm going to forget about this in a few days. Yes. It's not the end of the world.

Yes. There are some things that I remember that happened five years ago because they were pretty memorable and monumental. Those are the big things. Do you ever read The Power of Moments? Oh, dude, I love that book. Dude, that's an all-time great book. And that taught me a lot about what we're discussing, where it's like what you remember and why. Great for business owners, especially in branding, but like also for big moments in your life.

It's like, oh, yeah, this will literally, I will forget this conversation ever happened. Like, it's not a big deal. I think it's written by two brothers. Yes, Chip and Dan Heath. Yeah, Heath. They're amazing. And their book made to stick was amazing for me for content creation. They have a great book called Decisive on How to Be More Decisive.

Their books are awesome. I really like them a lot. Our whole marketing and brand team is read Power of Moments. It's fantastic. Yep. Yeah. Well, Jordan, man, I appreciate you making the trip to Austin, Texas once again. Great conversation.

Man, thank you. I have to get you down to Dallas. We're building out a podcast studio like this in the new house. So I'm going to have you there once it's Freddie. Absolutely. Thank you for having me on, man. You're incredibly kind. The more I get to know you, the more I admire you, and I look up to you immensely.

So thank you, and I appreciate you very much. Thanks, man. I appreciate you.