The Nick Bare Podcast - 074: Functional Bodybuilding: Foundations for a Healthy Lifestyle with Marcus Filly

Episode Date: July 8, 2024

There's a difference between being all-in and all-consumed. Marcus Filly joins the podcast to discuss his functional bodybuilding program. Marcus has a remarkable talent for making muscle-building and fat loss achievable for everyone. We discussed foundational training principles like the mind-muscle connection, establishing a training culture, and the controversy surrounding "the pump. Save 10% at BPN Supps: https://bit.ly/nickbare10audio Follow for more:  IG: instagram.com/nickbarefitness/ YT: youtube.com/@nickbarefitness Keep up with Marcus:IG: instagram.com/marcusfilly/ Topics: 0:00 Intro 1:05 Welcome 8:17 Functional bodybuilding 18:20 Muscle is the organ of longevity 25:05 Building the mind muscle connection 33:12 The importance of the pump 40:21 Creating culture around training 45:05 Marcus’s foundational training principles 52:04 Increasing your movement vocabulary 56:10 Balancing cardio with weight training 1:02:51 Making necessary changes for family 1:11:22 The difference between all in and all consumed 1:14:49 Navigating the different seasons 1:23:52 Being patient in your weakness 1:28:38 How your body responds to stress 1:37:37 Ways to manage stress 1:43:29 Creating a healthy body image 1:55:00 Avoiding depletion

I think a lot of people who've never experienced a pump before think that it's just like this vain thing you experience to make you look bigger. But in my opinion, it's a performance amplifier because you can feel movement and you can manipulate that movement to get a better feel and activate the muscle in different ways. You might have the science-based bodybuilders out there right now saying like it's all about mechanical tension. It's all about tension understretch. These are the things that actually get you the most results. The pump is just like it's an afterthought. There's a lot of things that I have done in my training experience and coach to people that might not necessarily be the most evidence-based scientific way to grow muscle and to build strength and the reason is because I just see you talking about it and lighting up

Why would I tell you? Hey, the pump's really not that important? Nick? Sorry, you probably shouldn't be paying attention to it When that alone is getting you so fired up to go and work hard. Yeah, that's the thing that motivates you and drives you in the gym. All right. So today on the podcast, we have fitness legend. Marcus Philly. What's going on? And I'm just getting to catch up with you a little bit, feeling pretty fortunate, blessed to be here at BPN and getting to finally do this in person. So you've been spending the last couple days here in Austin. Yeah.

What's you been up to? Came down on Thursday with my wife and we did an event for Siette Foods. I saw that. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, that awesome family. We did like a, coach their staff through workout at their headquarters, then had like a community event. They hosted like a breakfast, you know, a barbecue type thing.

Got a couple friends, two different couples that we know here in town that are like close friends from over the years, a couple that went to our wedding seven years ago and another couple that we've kind of gotten to know over the last couple years. And we just spent some quality time. My wife headed home two nights ago.

And I just hung around so that I could, you know, do podcast and get a little bit of time with some friends. It's a good city. Yeah, it's a, I mean, great city. We got here and that's like we, my wife and I have both been here separately. We hadn't been here together. So it was fun to just like be with my partner and cruise the city and just look around

and see it through each other's eyes. And we were both just like so blown away by how cool and like hip and like familiar it felt from being from like the San Francisco Bay Area. There's like a familiar vibe here. in this little island within Texas. Well, part of the reasons that they're all moving from San Francisco, which I know is a little bit of a point for a lot of people here, but yeah, it does make it feel more familiar.

I know that you, I've heard you talk about before you're a foodie. Oh, yeah. Did you have the opportunity to explore any of the Austin spots? Austin has great food. Oh, such good food. We ate dinner the first night at the well with the family, the Siette family. We stayed at the line and the Veracruz tacos that are.

there at the hotel. We had those a couple times, tons of good coffee, went and had my first Kalachi. Is that what it's called? Kalachi, yeah, yeah. From like Corlachi or like the truck that sells them. And we got some Terry Blacks barbecue. We kept it kind of simple. You have to. Yeah, it was close to, we were at Barton Springs on Sunday, which was a whole scene. And yeah, there's so much good food. And like when when I'm traveling, it's like I've got room for like a pretty nice breakfast and a pretty big dinner. And there's really not room for like many more meals. Otherwise, I'm just like stuffed and I feel terrible. So I was like, okay, we got three days together. That means six meals. How do we max out on like the best food possible here in Austin?

Yeah. Yeah, such good food. That's what we do when we travel, me and my wife and friends and family is I want to try the foods. Yeah. From chefs who are local to that area or who have traveled in and use ingredients and items from that local culture area and just really like submerge myself and in trying the best spots and the best food and best ingredients. Yeah, it's, I mean, I've, we were just in Sweden a couple weeks ago doing some work out there with Aliko. And like, I just kept sharing this like sort of message of like, you know, food is culture. It is like, we talk about it so much from like the perspective of, like, the perspective of,

health and wellness and how you have the tool to transform your body and the way you want. So like food is fuel, but like food is so much more than that. And you feel it so much when you immerse yourself in different cultures and their food. And so that's, that is same with my wife and I when we travel. It's like that's what we want to do. We want to go and get into the local food culture and see how people, like, you know, and if there are opportunities to do things that are, you know, atypical, like, rather than eating at a restaurant,

but you go to like an open fire barbecue that is outheld in somebody's property, that they're sourcing stuff from like the farmer's market locally and eating with people in their homes. Like, I'd rather have somebody when we're in Sweden, like, here, I baked you the, you know, the FICA cinnamon roll that we've had in my family for, you know, decades, rather than go into like some pastry shop

where they're going to make it obviously probably better with more professionals, like, but get into like people's culture and how food is, nourished them and nourished their family and brought people together. And, you know, that was kind of the feeling of like the Siette family when we were there. Like they're a food company. They sell food products. But like they're a food culture too. And they, it was very rich there. And like we were, you know, eating and they were preparing big meals for everybody in their kitchen. It was, it was

rad. I remember when Siette really just came one to the market. This is before me and my wife had our daughter and we used to always make these different dinners in the evenings. We had like our go-to dinners, but we'd always experiment and try these new things. So we go to the grocery store on the way home from the office or the gym and we get all these ingredients we would need. We'd always like snag a bag of the Ciette nacho chips. Yeah. And we just like open it up as we're making dinner. And by the time dinner was done, we finished the bag of these CETA nach chips. When we did that for you know, months. The amount of bags of those chips we've crushed. I'm a huge fan of there cassava flour tortillas. Those are my go-to tortillas now. Oh, yeah, nice. Yeah. Two of like,

so two of the meals that we had out were like the restaurants used their tortillas to make their tacos or, you know, as part of their menu. It's pretty cool to see. And then like, we said goodbye to them on Saturday after a really special event. And like afterwards, they all had their kids that were the same age as our kids playing. And it felt like, oh, this feels like home. We went to like Whole Foods to grab some snacks. And it just like, you know, when you're like around something and it's in your awareness, you start to like be very aware of how it's showing up in other places in your life. Like we walk into the store and I'm like, oh my gosh, like look at how much their brand has really like taken over all the aisles at Whole Foods because they've got

sauces, they've got chips, they've got tortillas. They've got all these different. They've got sweets. They've got cookies. And I was like, oh, that must feel so. amazing, you know, as this, like, family that started from, you know, nothing, just like, hey, we have an idea. And now they're making, like, a cool impact. So are they from Austin? They're from Laredo, I believe. Okay. So they're from Texas. Yeah. Yeah. And it's cool. They've got like, you know, the building that they work out of, like, has all these little images of, like, the home and the street and, like, these places from their history back in Laredo that they've named all their conference rooms after. So there's, like, pictures up.

That's really cool touches. Yeah. If you ever. get a chance to go over there and connect with them. I'm sure they'd love to make more connections with other businesses around here. They're very fitness forward. They've been like all in the crossfit scene for a decade or more. And that's how they knew of me and how we connected. Yeah, I love what they're doing. Their products, their ingredients, their branding is from a person who respects and appreciates brand. They're doing a great job. So I'd love to dive into what you're really known for now on what you've built your name off of, functional bodybuilding. Okay.

And what I really want to dive into is like that bodybuilding component. Yeah. Of functional bodybuilding. One, I'd love for you to describe what functional bodybuilding is that as I was thinking about this conversation today, one of things I keep going back to is like the way that I love training. Yeah. You know, how my training has evolved over the years through my time in the military.

And I experimented with CrossFit a little bit. Mm-hmm. But the Olympic lifting just, like, humbled me very quickly. And I realized that might not be my place. Yeah, it's a deal breaker for some people, for sure. And I dove into, you know, endurance training, which I do a lot of right now. But bodybuilding has always been the foundation of all of my training. And it doesn't matter what I'm training for.

I always incorporate these traditional body body movements. I believe that's one way that I've built my physique. I've mitigated risk of injury as I have cross-trained and done other things. But also I just, I love it. I love the pump. I love the feel. I love the aesthetic benefit you get from it, but also how it aids in performance.

Yeah. So I love this whole concept of. I mean, you're speaking my language. So much right now. So much. I've heard some recent conversations you've had in podcast as I was preparing for this one talking about how like you have this great love for weightlifting and barbell movements, but you're not afraid of machines.

And there's there's these different audiences and demographics and sports who are afraid of machines. Right. I'd love to just dive into what is functional bodybuilding to you. Sure. Yeah. I mean, so many of the things that you just said. are like they parallel with how I feel about training, you know, and my evolution and training too.

And, you know, even before diving into it, like, just had a chance to work out in your gym. And, you know, your gym is like the embodiment of functional bodybuilding in a big way. I was hoping you appreciated the way we set that up. Oh, I mean, it's very much how we set up our facility. It's like, you know, somebody with that walks in who's like a CrossFit or would be like, oh, this feels like a CrossFit gym because there's a rig. You know, there's wall balls. There's all the things you might use for CrossFit workouts.

There's the assault bike. There's the cardio equipment. Then somebody who's like into strength conditioning who wants to like power lift or Olympic lift. Like you got Olympic lifting plates. You got a leco plates. You got nice barbells. You got heavy weights. There's a turf to be pushing and pulling sleds.

And then that's all next to a whole fleet of arsenal, you know, strength equipment. You've got peck deck. You've got leg press, hack squat, leg extension, leg curl, you know, a whole cable system. you've got benches, you've got a rack of dumbbells that goes up past 50 pounds. Like, it goes up to 150. You know, there's training implements and tools in there that could really suit a whole variety of disciplines of training. And to me, functional bodybuilding, those two terms like functional training and bodybuilding

next to each other was my way of being like, hey, we're inclusive of everything because I had spent a long time in CrossFit where I think a lot of people in that community for a long time were very like, no, we are, this is how you do it. And anything else is like we don't do that in training. You know, I recall periods of time where bodybuilding was certainly looked down upon by the community I was a part of. And we would, you know, poke fun at like, oh, you're just doing curls. Like, what's that? That's not functional, you know. And deep down, like, it never really resonated with me too much because I had come from prior to that, I'd come from a bodybuilding strength training background with Charles Pollockin as somebody I looked up to in his German body

composition programs and which were bodybuilding composition, like change your body through weight training programs, which I valued a lot and obviously gave me a huge base of like strength and muscle development and muscularity that allowed me to be successful in CrossFit early on. So when I had retired from CrossFit as a competitive athlete, you know, it was a, it was a blast and certainly a fun way to train for a bunch of years. And I love the sport. I love coaching it. I loved owning my gym. But I also realized that that was like a pretty narrow look at fitness. And rather than be like, I don't want to do that anymore, it's like, I want to include that, but I want to expand upon that for a lot of the reasons that you just stated. Like, bodybuilding is really fulfilling to a lot of people.

It gives them an opportunity to, like, look at training for physique. Like, people want to look good. Okay? Let's not deny that. Let's also recognize that, like, bodybuilding is not just a sport of, like, competing on stage with the best physique. It's also a set of principles that can really aid people training for other sports, whether it be endurance training or CrossFit or something.

else, even ball sports, you know, like controlled contractions through a good full range of motion help build soft tissue, connective tissue, and make joints stronger. And so, okay, bodybuilding is a great way to make people more resilient to life and to injury. So to me, that is like functional bodybuilding helps me to capture a lot of different disciplines because I didn't want to be stuck in a box as a coach. And I certainly didn't want to be stuck in a box as an athlete. And I knew that the rest of my life of training and coaching, beyond my time deeply dedicated to the brand of CrossFit, was going to be, I wanted to explore a lot. And I didn't want to have a label. And so that's what took me down the path and starting to develop, you know, the methods

of functional bodybuilding. Yeah, I feel like the lines between different modelled, modalities of training are disintegrating or they're getting a little blurger than they used to be. Yeah. Or it used to be, you know, if you're a power lifter, you're just doing your compound movements. Yep. And you laugh at higher rep ranges or you laugh at running or cardiovascular training in general. And there's CrossFit, like you said, where like there's these lines, there's these left and right limits where there's not a respect for. for the bodybuilding space.

Yeah. Or maybe even like a strictly endurance space. And you have bodybuilders who also have their left and right limits. But I feel like people are starting to remove those lines. And the different modalities of training are becoming blurrier. And people are understanding you can apply all these things. That's the way I train is applying all these different styles of training for different goals and seasons and what you're enjoying,

you're not enjoying, but they all have a time in place based off what you're trying to achieve. And I think that's the first question is, what are you trying to achieve? Yeah, I mean, it's like you saying that is, I think it's so true. And I think, you know, you deserve a lot of credit in the fitness space for the reason lines are starting to get more blurry and kind of come down between disciplines is people are seeing examples of individuals who are really pursuing multiple disciplines at the same time and doing them all well. It used to be thought, right? Like, you can only do one discipline well, and if you do something else, you're going to detract from your, you know, lose your gains kind of deal.

It's like, you know, you as a hybrid athlete who's like doing it amazingly well in different disciplines, like, oh, okay, yeah, I can do that. You know, I think CrossFit athletes did that for a number of years too. It's like, oh, you can be elite at weightlifting and you can have a huge engine and you can walk on your hands and do this. And I think, I didn't approach it with like, oh, I need to help break down these barriers

between training disciplines, but being known as a functional bodybuilder and actually dedicating some to pure bodybuilding and obviously having spent a lot of time in CrossFit, and then now merging them together and showing, like, hey, you can do all this at the, same time and be successful. And it really gives not the person who's pursuing elite anything, but the person who's like pursuing fitness for life. You know, like I don't, I don't hear people

saying like, hey, I want to just, I only want to do one thing for the rest of my life. I hear them saying like, I want to be fit. I want to be strong. I want to feel good. I want to be healthy for the rest of my life. And for the gen pop and most people, it's like, that journey is going to look different. They're going to be into this for a little while. They're going to be into this for a little while. Maybe they want to blend different disciplines together. And I think it's great that they now are, you know, there's now a different narrative out there in the fitness community that says, hey, all of this can work together. Perhaps if you want to be the best marathon or in the world, you probably shouldn't do as much bodybuilding as you're doing and carry as much muscle. Yeah.

But that's like a very small micro percentage of who's in the world. You know, not many people are doing that. people aspire to like, you know, what you've been able to create, like, oh, wow, he can do it well. And he's doing it great in both areas. And I think that was what inspired people about Crosswood athletes, too. They didn't necessarily think they were going to compete at the games with like, oh, I can do a lot of different stuff and be good at it. I heard you talking to Kelly Starrett about the foundational importance of building muscle, building strength, prioritizing lean muscle mass.

And you guys used the term building muscle earlier on is money in the bank for when you get older. And I love that because I think what a lot of people get wrong about me is they think that I started a strength training

and running simultaneously. The reality is I spent 10 years focused on putting on size and mass and powerlifting and bodybuilding before I actually started exploring running and cardiovascular training. And that's obviously shifted the way that I think about training overall, right? I love running. I love cardiovascular endurance training. But when I think of fitness, strength, bodybuilding muscle is always a foundation because I know how that makes me feel right now. I know how that supports my training, but I also know that in 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years, how important that muscle is that I'm building right now is going to be

then. So is that the way that you view fitness and training is that muscle, lean muscle mass, strength training is the foundation of everything? I mean, I go further and like I've been really, I feel like it's the foundation for like health and longevity. It's like it's the foundation for more than just sport and fitness and, you know, being active. It's like Dr. Gabrielle Lyon talked about like muscle is the organ of longevity. And she's like very, you know, put in a lot of time and research to support this notion that like the more muscle mass you have.

And there's plenty of research and. evidence out there. It's like the more muscle mass you have, the lower likelihood of like all cause mortality and, you know, lower quality of life in your later years. Yeah. And it's as a coach or somebody who's trying to make, influence people in the fitness space, I think we're working against a long narrative of working out and exercises about burning calories. And when it should have been from the beginning, training or working out is about building strength and muscle. And if you do that, the earlier, the better, just like a 401k or some investment, it's like the earlier start doing that, the more it compounds over life. And if you stay consistent with it, to the point where when you had 10 years of strength training under your belt and you had built this foundation,

you could go out and start running marathons. And at any point, like, tap back into that muscle, go train, build muscle back. Like, that was just part of, you had banked a lot of strength, muscle, and, like, embedded in who you are. Right. Whereas people were, it's spent a lot of time thinking, like, hey, my exercise and my trips to the gym are all about going and burning calories. and they're focused more in like an energy expenditure mindset, rather than like a train-build-strength mindset, they don't have that banked up over 10 years,

and now they're just still fighting against the same challenges of not having a robust musculoskeletal system, which means a robust metabolism. And they're a little bit behind the eight ball. And then it's like, okay, now I'm 40, and oh, I'm finally becoming aware that strength is important, muscle mass is important, it's going to be important for my longevity. Now they're going to start trying to put that muscle on.

I mean, there's never a bad time to start. But if you can start early, you know, then that is massively, massively important for your future. And when I'm like thinking about my kids who are five and seven, I'm like, okay, well, I want you to explore whatever you want in movement and activity and extracurriculars, but let's carve out a place and let's hopefully set an example that, like, like mom and dad, we lift weights to stay strong and we've been doing it for a long time and you see us doing it all the time. And let's get you to make that a part of your early years so that you set this foundation. That's what I love about having a home gym.

We're even, we're in a rental right now as we're waiting for our house to be done. And one of the first things I did is I went to tractor supply, got a bunch of horse stall mats, put a rig in there, some cables. And my daughter's always just hanging out. in our home gym. Yeah. I mean, she turns two next month. She's not training, but she's just around equipment. She sees it.

She sees my wife getting on the treadmill. She sees me, you know, using the weights. So she's just exposed to that early on, which I think is really important. Yeah, our kids, we've implemented something in the last like 12 months where we had back home, we have a home gym, which has really got everything you need. And we also have like a gym gym, which we just use for our content and we're my, you know, a couple of my employees that work with me make all of our, you know, short form social media

stuff and we work. But on the weekends, we invite all our kids, friends, parents, and people locally that we've known over the years in and out of the gyms that we've run for, you know, the last decade. Hey, come and let's do workouts together. and they oftentimes bring their kids and now it's like there'll be 10 to 12 adults and you know an equal number of kids at the gym and you know they might do some art project or be you know watching a cartoon but then like there's a point of which the workout's over and all the kids are down and they're running around and playing on the pull-up bars and climbing the ropes and they are seeing

all of their parents work out and lift weights and it's like you know it's it's certainly going to it's become so normalized that they're like asking, hey, can I do this thing? Like the ones that are like nine, 10, and 11 that are there are like joining in on farmers carries. And they're doing things like that. The younger ones are just seeing some of the older kids be engaged. And it's creating for sure a pattern that they're going to, it's going to be easier for them to fall into because they're exposed to it. Right. Yeah. Well, I've been in the gym since I was probably, like really in the gym, probably since I was, 16, 17 years old.

And that's when I got bit by the bug. I fell in love with it very quickly. So I've been training consistently for a long time now. And I'm curious your thoughts on this because as I talk to people, even people who just start working here at BPN, and they've never spent much time in a gym before. And they might have come from like a class background or a cross-hit background where they're moving through these

movements, which is one style of training. But then I talk to people who either just start here at BPN, like I said, or are recently introduced to like a bodybuilding style of training program in trying to teach them how to feel the movement. That's the reason I share I've been training since I was 16, 17 is I've developed muscle. I've trained a lot. I can feel movements. Like you can feel movements.

Like you know if you're doing a pull up right. You know if you're doing a pull through right and the way you're contracting the muscle and you get the pump and where that blood flow is moving into the muscle, you can feel it the whole way through it, which is one of the reasons I love bodybuilding. Yeah. And bodybuilding training is I can actively in that moment in real time, feel the muscle that's being trained. But trying to teach someone that's just getting started that, I found is oftentimes difficult because they don't have that mind muscle connection. they don't have that muscle that's built, they don't understand what a pump is. How do you kind of help people navigate from just getting started to when they can finally feel those movements? Because I feel like when you feel those movements, it clicks.

Oh, yeah. Well, ma'am, a lot of thoughts come up. Number one, that is why the first, call it six to seven years of my training were so impactful on me, too. It's like I started at 13 years old, I got my first gold's gym membership and would go there with my brother. And, you know, he was a little bit older. And when he could drive, then he would drive us to the gym or when he wasn't old enough, my mom would drop us off. And it was really like all those years of just doing every machine in the gym and just doing three sets of 10 on it. Like eventually you start to feel things and you start to learn because you've gotten the repetitions. So one side of the coin is like you have to put in the time.

You can't fast track somebody to feeling a mind muscle connection because that's what develops over years and years of muscle maturity and learning movements and putting in the time and developing the tissue. So on the one hand, hey, like you're going to have to put in the time and over maybe a year, two, three years, they're going to start to get it more. but I really valued that so much. And I also value like when you work in a more controlled contraction, bodybuilding style of training, you have a much higher likelihood of starting to feel that rather than if you're moving fast and in less controlled ways in more of a boot camp or class-based system where it's like just go, go,

it's harder to sort of feel those things. the other thing that I also remember too from like my early years was being inspired by bodybuilders and seeing them posing and I think I started to try and learn how to pose and flex my muscles which was a very stereotypical teenage boy thing to do but it creates mind muscle connection it's very true yeah you learn how like you know to do a rear double bicep pose. Like, you have to understand what's happening with your upper back and, you know, contract your lats and biceps and squeeze muscles together and, you know, flex your glutes and hamstrings and calf muscles. And, you know, you, to get good at it and to start looking at the muscles while

you're flexing, like, that builds, those are isometrics. You're just doing isometric contractions, which is another great way for people to learn mind muscle connection. So in what I just Like though I pulled out, okay, what are the, what are the tools and the physiological, you know, things that we can touch on to get people to feel that? Control. Moving slowly. That is huge for people. When they move fast and they get on a machine and they just rip on it, there's very little

mind muscle connection and feeling of a pump and knowing which muscles to contract. When you get people to move slowly and you prescribe tempo to their, weight training, then you increase the likelihood that they're going to feel it, that they're going to start to draw those connections, which is essentially what you're talking about. So in programs and in training and coaching people with new beginners, it is essential that I always teach people the importance of training with tempo. Like, you know, you're going to do a four-second eccentric on your squats. Not because it's better than doing it faster.

It's just they have a better chance at staying safe, being in good positions, and feeling what we want them to feel. Because we want them to connect to what they're doing. So more slow eccentric for beginners and then utilizing isometrics a lot, which as you get advanced, both of those things generally stop people stop doing them as much. It's not becoming as important. You know, it's just like control the weight, move it up, right? Whereas for a beginner, it's like, slow it down, pause in the stretch position, contract, press it up, hold your last rep for 15 seconds at the top, you know, support yourself in a dip, hold planks, hang from the pull-up bar with your chin over the bar for 15 seconds,

these tools that can just be written into programs, which is how I write a lot of my programs because we're taking in people that have never done proper bodybuilding or, you know, strength training progressions or they're even just intermediate trainees and that missed that in the early days of their learning. You know, this is, these are really powerful ways to coach people to get it sooner than we got it like, because it took years for us to like really feel it all. Right. And there's like, there's levels to it. Of course. You know what you have those, I'm thinking right now as you were explaining that. I had a workout earlier this week. chest workout. And as one of those ones, like, the first set you do, you can feel everything

throughout the movement. I was doing push-ups and it was like prime conditions where every rep, it almost feels like you can, like I can close my eyes and watch the muscle fibers contracting and swelling. And you're like, oh, hell yes. Yeah, well, that sounds like, that sounds like Arnold in pumping iron right there. For real, yeah. Yeah. And he's not lying. No, not. And most people will probably not ever get to that point where they appreciate that level of like, you know, visualization and the training. But it is special for those of us who, who get it. And I mean, I felt, I kind of felt that way too today. Like I jumped on that chest press, Arsenal chess press machine. And I've never been on that particular machine. And it just like

set up perfectly for me. I was like, wow, first rep. Like, this is working really well for me. You can tell Arsenal was made by bodybuilders. Sure. Because those machines hit so well. I love going to some of these older gyms, and they have like the old pre-core machines. And some of those older machines, just like the leverages in the way they move

hit the muscle so well. That's why I love chasing a pump in the gym. I will do things to set conditions to get the best pump ever. Yeah. I'll strategically place carbs and sodium and use pump ingredients around a workout. Yeah.

And if it's like the right conditions, like here in Texas, you get some heat, some humidity. It's like it's all this cascading ingredients for the best pump ever. But I can feel every contraction. And I think a lot of people who've never experienced a pump before think that it's just like this vain thing you experience to make you look bigger.

But in my opinion, it's a performance amplifier because you can feel, movement and you can manipulate that movement to get a better feel and activate the muscle in different ways. There's two things that are coming up for me as you're talking. Number one is that you might have the science-based bodybuilders out there right now saying like the pump is just like it's all about mechanical tension. It's all about, you know, stretch tension under stretch. These are the things that actually get you the most results. The pump is just like it's an afterthought. There's a lot of things that I have done in my training experience and coach to people

or at least valued and appreciated that might not necessarily be the most evidence-based scientific way to grow muscle and to build strength. And the reason is because I just see you talking about it and lighting up and being so stoked on it. So why would I tell you if that was true? Like, hey, the pump's really not that important, Nick? Sorry, you know, you just probably shouldn't be paying attention to it, when that alone is getting you so fired up to go and work hard. Yeah. That's the thing that motivates you and drives you in the gym. And that's true for people, for a lot of what I do with my training programs.

It's like we might implement kettlebell complexes, you know, for strength training and some movement variety. And someone's like, you know, some keyboard warriors like, well, that's a waste of time. you should just go and do single arm presses, you know, or barbell presses and all that pull down. And I'm like, but there's a lot of people that get fired up to go and train with kettlebells. Even if it's not the best way to build muscle, even if it's not the best way, like forget the best way to do things and focus on things that people aren't excited and inspired to do that are going to get them to show up consistently and give some hard work. And if it's the pump and people are into that and like getting your salt right, getting a little pre-workout, getting the right pump, you know, supplement, the right temperature, getting them sweaty, like turning the fan off for a little bit. So they just start to get, you know, that heat going. Like, go for it. And make it make that a priority because that's what's, you know, flexing in the mirror. Like whatever it makes, whatever, whatever works for you. The other thing that I thought about was, truly to the pump is, and I talked about this yesterday with some guys, I said, you know,

when the question was like, hey, I'm kind of new to training. Like, I've never done anything. I'm kind of like in that 45, 50 year old who's just starting from zero. Like, what's important to me? And I started talking about the importance of just doing basic full body strength training. And they're like, oh, you mean I shouldn't go out and like run and do something else? And I'm like, hey, there's nothing against that. But your body composition, you want it to change. Right now you've got some, like, you know, you're holding, you're carrying more body fat than you want. You haven't seen your muscles in a while. Like, you don't know what's underneath there. The quickest way for you to connect with that is to go get a pump. You know, even if you've got some layers of body fat on you,

you go get a pump on, your, your tissue's going to swell. You're going to feel your skin get tight. You're going to see a bump where you didn't see it before. And it's only temporary. The pump's going to go away and, you know, a few hours, maybe 24 hours. But for now, you feel it, you see it. And you're like, oh, yeah, there's something in there. There's something that I know is coming soon if I stick to the plan. It's almost like instant gratification for somebody who's starting training. Because everyone needs a little bit of a quick result to stay motivated. And if they're going to the gym and they do a pump, you know, a pump session or something, that's like conducive of getting good blood flow to their muscle then versus like doing ones and

twos on you know a heavy lift but you give them something that gets them set up for that they're relatively new to training they still are carrying too much body fat but they're like oh wow i'm feeling i'm feeling that and that is like highly motivating for somebody who's relatively new yeah i heard human and galpin talk about this oh okay that that six part series they did yes and they talked about the importance of the pump more so from like this mental emotional confidence yeah booster standpoint where it's the one activity bodybuilding hypertrophy that you can do the almost get a transient lens into the future of potentially what you could look like if you kept training oh wow and you don't really experience that anywhere else where you go in you work out you get a pump you look bigger you

feel bigger and it's this this connection of oh this is what i could look like with yeah five more pounds of muscle yeah that's just one that's exactly what i'm talking about um it um it's cool to hear that you know other people are explaining it in in their own unique ways and it makes me go back to when i was you know when when i was 14 my brother was 16 and he's driving and we're going to the gold's gym together and we had this pickup truck which was awesome at the time we'd get done with the gym and we weren't like ripped or shredded. Like we were just, you know, teenage kids, but we were leaving the gym pumped.

And we would always get in the car, take off our shirts, roll the windows down, just vibe it, feeling so just that confidence. We'd turn on it. We had a song we would turn on. I think it was like ice cubes, like pushing rhymes like weight. It was like a very old song. But we would just like feel,

we'd be feeling so confident and so good. And just like that, I remember those memories were like, yep, like I want to go back to the gym because I'm feeling this right now. Even though I don't see the, you know, I hadn't realized my actual potential yet, but I could feel something was coming. One of my favorite things to do, like before we started recording this episode, I was telling you, come in this gym late at night, garage stores up, music blaring,

that drive back from the workout to my house, windows down, humidity rolling in, AC blasting. It's just like a, it's a different feel. And the only way to experience it is post-workout. One of the things you were talking about doing things, even though they might not have all of this evidence that supports it, but you enjoy it and it works for you. I'm a huge believer in that. And you also made a comment about, you know, people kind of,

challenging some of the things you're talking about. Same thing with hybrid athlete training, for example. I've been talking about hybrid athlete training for the last couple years. And there's been a lot of criticism to pushback. Not even like you can't lift and run, but hey, hybrid athlete training is just fitness. It's the combination of cardiovascular training and strength training. And you know what?

Yeah, you're probably right. But for me, when there's like this name attached to it and it's this lifestyle, it's like, hell yeah, I'm going to train hybrid. Fuck, no. And while everyone else is like, hybrid is just this, like, I don't give a shit. Yeah. Like, it's fucking cool.

It resonates with me so much. Like, you know, I don't know who coined hybrid athlete to begin with, but you certainly should get as much, if not all the credit for like making it mainstream. And I actually, you know, we have a small podcast for functional bodybuilding, look good, move well podcast. And this is me and my business.

partner, we kind of go back and forth talking about different things. It was like three weeks ago, we recorded something about hybrid athlete, you know, because it's a question we get a lot. Like, hey, Marcus, I do your functional bodybuilding program. I want to run. How would you do it? So I just gave my two cents and thoughts on it. And one thing I, you know, address was like, there are a lot of people that are really identifying and feel connected to the term. And that's so powerful. Like, you know, people say like, I'm a bodybuilder. It's like, oh, they're identifying with a culture and with a, you know, a thing.

That's it right there. And that gets them excited. And like the hybrid athlete is a culture, just like CrossFit was a culture. You know, crossfiters were hybrid athletes, you know. And, you know, in not the sense of like we run and we lift, it was like we kind of did everything. But, you know, you could say, well, hybrid athletes are just people who do a lot of different things. but it's like now you've created this like category that has a name and a culture associated with it. And that's inspiring people to do more than they've done before.

And that kind of is like, well, I'm a functional bodybuilder. Okay, cool. Like I identify with that. I want to do, now I'm going to do more and include more than I've ever done before. And it inspires me to go and train and learn the discipline and learn how to do it. And even down to like when we write training programs, you know, hey, here's your program. Do this exercise, this, bu, blah, blah, just like one, two, three, four, five, and go home. Or come in and, hey, you're going to do your warm up.

And then we're going to do our strength intensity. What's strength intensity? That's just the first exercise you do in the workout. Okay. Then we're going to do strength balance. What's that? That's kind of like your accessory exercises. Okay.

Then we, you know, like, we name sections of our program, and people, like, connect to that. They're like, oh, yeah, when I do strength intensity, I bring this energy. And they connect to just a vocabulary. Yeah. And then it's like, and then strength balance, like, oh, this is not where I come and, like, go max effort. This is where I come and, like, try and really feel the mind muscle connection more. This is where I go and I, like, try and extend my range of motion and work on my mobility more. Okay, cool.

Now they're bringing the right intent to what they're doing. And I would imagine that's the same thing with people who are identifying as hybrid athletes. Like, oh, I bring the right intention to the things that I'm doing because it fits this culture that has been defined by somebody who I look up to and, you know, a public figure who's really setting an example and leading it, leading a culture. So, yeah, there could be all kinds of haters out there that want to say the thing that, hey, we've been doing that forever. It's like, you sure have and nobody was paying attention because you didn't create a culture and you didn't name it and you didn't. You didn't create the thing, the category. That's what it is. It's the culture around it.

Yeah. It's not necessarily like a left and right limit or even guidelines. One of my favorite quotes and sayings from this past year is the concepts are few, but the methods are many. Oh, yeah. That applies for any way you train. Like there's these few concepts, but there's so many different ways to do it. Yeah.

I'm curious, you know, in terms of functional bodybuilding, because you've built a culture around that as well, just like high breathythic training. What are the foundational principles of those training concepts? You're talking to kind of a little bit about the way you structure workouts. Yeah, I mean, I think it starts with a lot of things that we've discussed already, but it's like, you know, training is about resistance training. So building a culture around building strength and muscle is the foundation.

for how you should spend your time in the gym. So all of our, we have lots of different ways. Like once you become a member of functional bodybuilding and our program persist, you can train in these different, like, sort of verticals. Like, you can do the one that's a little bit more feels like CrossFit. You can do the one that feels a little bit more like pure bodybuilding, and then there's kind of these hybrid training tracks.

But at the top and the center of each one is like, we got to build strength. And we have to build strength through a full range of motion, that is defined by where your body is at today with the intent of let's improve that range of motion so long as it's not causing pain or like to give you functional capacity and resilience in your joints

because we want to ward off against injury risk and make you more resilient for life. So strength training at the core through full range of motion and teaching people how to give proper effort. effort there. People know how to give effort when they sprint and they do the hard boot camps because they can feel themselves pushing to the limit. I think it's very difficult for people who are not trained and haven't done lifting for a long time or come from a sports background to know how to push themselves with weights. Yeah. And you know just as well as anybody, it's like the money is made in weight training in those last few reps. And so how do we teach people to do that? So that's very foundational to functional bodybuilding. The other main kind of tenant is like we want people to explore movement. What I mean by that is, you know, I use this term with one of my coaches as like your movement vocabulary. Like how broad is your

movement vocabulary? Are you really narrow? Like I know how to, I know how to squat bench and deadlift and I don't really know how to do anything else outside of that. Or do you have this wide movement library that you can select from and your vocabulary is really big. I can do a Cossack squad. I know how to do a version of a pistol. I can do push-ups, but I can also do kneeling presses and I can do landmine work and I can do, right, vary the implements, vary the patterns, vary the way that you can move in space. So with that builds people's confidence. I'm capable of doing a lot of things. It allows them to not lose interest, stay engaged in the training. And this is one that I fight against a lot with like comments.

It's like all you need is the, you know, these basic movements, just do them every day for the rest of your life and you're going to be fine. It's like you're right. But you forgot the part where you have to do them for every day for the rest of your life. And a lot of people aren't as like dedicated and as neurotic about training as you are and they want to keep it spicy. Just like people don't want to eat the same four foods for the rest of their life, they want to be able to have some variety. It's like same thing with movement. So, yeah, let's select the movements that are going to be the foundation for building range of motion and getting super strong and building muscle. Those might be your core exercises, but let's also include what I call that strength balance section of training.

Like, let's explore movement and really do different things. And I think that was something that a lot of people resonated with my content in the early, years of me building functional bodybuilding where there's like, holy shit, I see Marcus doing a new exercise every day. There's a new way of doing this and that. And geez, like, we've got 2,000 plus exercise demo videos on our YouTube channel.

And that's not even like the full comprehensive list of what we can do. When you start to use your imagination and you take the basic moving patterns and start to explore new implements and positions and things like that. I'm not saying people should do 2,000 exercises like in their training program.

That's just too much. But sprinkling in variety that gets people to move in new ways is really powerful. So there's strength, there's exploration, and then there's conditioning. There's a true element of like you have to train your heart,

your cardiovascular system. And because I have this really big background in the methodology that really gave name to the mixed modal training CrossFit. Like I did every combination of movements you could imagine for years. I felt what it's like to combine all the patterns with cardiovascular fitness like modalities like running, rowing, biking and skiing. Like I've done it. I know what works, what are powerful movement combinations and how to transform.

translate that into aerobic training for people that incorporates weights. I feel really uniquely qualified to prescribe that and show people, hey, this is how you can do it in a safe way. That's not too complex. You mentioned Olympic lifting being a barrier to you doing CrossFit. It's a barrier to most people doing CrossFit. And if we can remove that and then select the right exercises to build those types of circuits out of some of the circuits that I saw on the whiteboard out in your gym of like 30 minute am wrap of ski push the sled farmers carry strict pull up like that is a perfect example of taking simple like simple movements and making cardiovascular training out of a mixed modality type of scene 20 years ago nobody was doing that or very few people now a lot of people

are doing it because they've seen it in versions through CrossFit for two decades. And so that is something that is a big part of functional bodybuilding training is we strength train, then we explore movement. We strength train through full range of motion. We explore movement and build a movement vocabulary. And then we condition intelligently with mixed modal training that isn't putting people at risk with highly complex exercises, but it allows them to kind of mix modalities that they've become accustomed to liking and enjoying and getting a bit more efficiency because they don't have necessarily 90 minutes to go out and run four days a week. One area that I'm trying to improve on right now is my movement vocabulary and improving that.

I think coming from like a traditional bodybuilding background, there are these movements that I know and I love and I will always do. and then being a runner, loving running, running is you're running. That's it, right? Recently, I've actually started incorporating more Metcon style workouts. Sled pushes, sled pulls, wall balls. You know, we'll do these different circuits here in the gym.

And what I've found is introducing these new movements, I'll feel those the next day. joints hurt that normally never hurt. Muscles hurt that normally would never hurt. So I realize that I have weaknesses that are being exposed by these different stimuluses that I don't typically train on a regular basis. So one of the things I'm actively trying to do right now is increase and improve my movement vocabulary.

Yeah. Because like most people, I know my strengths. I stick to my strengths. Yeah. I know my weaknesses. is I avoid my weaknesses. So now I'm trying to be patient in my weakness to turn those into a greater strength.

And that's like, that's the art of coaching clients is like evaluating where are your strengths and where your like biggest opportunities to grow. And helping, you know, you're kind of arriving at this on your own where it's like, oh, I see that these are areas of weakness or opportunities to grow, whatever vocabulary you want to use there. I like opportunities. Yeah, opportunities.

But you're like, okay, you're drawn to want to bring them up. But the strengths that you have are powerful. Like that is, you want to help my people identify. What are your strengths? Don't turn away from your strengths to just focus on weaknesses. You keep leveraging those strengths, but know that the opportunity to grow those strengths is very small in comparison to how much you can grow in these other opportunity areas.

And when those come up, you will likely see the strengths even progress further. So I love that you're spending and making, we're making room to spend time to develop those. And movement, the way that you're talking about, like incorporating and exploring new movements, you've found a way to build it in to something that feels aligned with you, which is like conditioning circuits. great. Like, now you know, I'll go for 30 minutes. I'll just grind for 30 minutes. I'll put in a couple simple things. And then maybe right there in the middle of it, you throw in a kettlebell windmill. Like, you know, a twisting kind of yoga with weights type of movement, which I imagine you don't do a lot of windmills. And, you know, you're going to have to slow down a little bit. You're going to have to use a light kettlebell. You're going to have to feel like, oh, man, I feel my QL getting stretched out like crazy. Oh, this is kind of awkward. My shoulders. you know, feeling a little unstable, but, and then you go right back to pushing the sled and doing a 400 meter run in between and doing some pull-ups and maybe a few burpees and then you slow down and do some more windmills, right? And it's part of this circuit. I call some of those circuits

like aerobic bodybuilding because you're just like, you're doing cardio, but then you're like mixing in some, you know, contractions and muscle contractions. Still getting a pump. I like that. Yeah. I used to like in the COVID days, like when I was back in my backyard, I would just like, I get on a bike, I get my jump rope out, I had the little rig, just like in the sun. I would just do like 40 minute flows like that all the time. Just a little cardio, a couple curls, maybe a handstand, walk, something like that, pull ups. Like, it was just, it felt like meditation, but like meathead meditation. Yeah. Meathead. I love it. Yeah, meathead cardio, yeah. So I know you're a big advocate of getting in your steps in a daily basis.

I think you should have like 15,000 a day? That is, yeah, that's been my, I think I averaged in 20, 23, like 18,000 steps a day, which was more than necessary. But yeah, I'm a big advocate for steps. Yeah, I'm anywhere from like 17,000 to 22,000, but that's with running. Yeah, yeah. So I know that's where you get a lot of your cardio,

and you'll throw one, like a go-ruck for that sometimes. and then you're doing these these bodybuilding circuits where you're also moving as well. What is your relationship with running or strictly, you know, cycling, swimming, rowing, any longer duration

cardiovascular training? How do you approach that? What are your thoughts on it? Yeah, I mean, it was like, it was definitely an opportunity for me, you know, for most of my athletic career was like, I never really, I played soccer as a kid, but I transitioned to the goalkeeper position in high school.

And then that's what I played in college. So I tell people I was a soccer player, like, oh, you must be a great runner. I'm like, well, you know, I kind of just had to be good inside of an 18-yard box. That's about it. I was a good sprinter. I was a power athlete. So I kind of caught the cycling bug after college towards the end of college. I really got into like road cycling.

I just loved how much distance I could cover in a place. period of time and just kind of looks like a cyclist yeah okay i see the cyclist love yeah all right um it was not like i didn't compete in it and i certainly didn't do anything that was like uh you know would i would consider that impressive in that sport i just thought it was fun and i liked like i said you know we live in a beautiful area out in california in merrin county and you know get on my bike and i could go up and down the coast and i could see the beach and i could go up the mountain and i could you know in two hours i could cover a lot um so that was really like my only like focused endurance period.

And then I got into CrossFit. And CrossFit in the early years was hugely aligned with power. It was like maximal lactic power, lactic, you know, energy systems, like two to three minute met cons that you just go hard. And it was not the sport that it is today. And that heavily incentivizes people to have a massive aerobic, base and engine and be able to do things like running and swimming and rowing for distances,

but also just like do the thing that we just talked about, these like circuits that last a long time but happen to include 300 pound jerks, you know, it's like, build this big engine. Yeah, huge engines. So I started out being kind of perfectly aligned to it. That was like my, my essence was the power. But then the sport started to evolve and I wanted to compete, you know, at the highest level. And I had to learn like how to be a, an aerobic athlete. And I had a coach that was like helping me. And we learned, I learned zone one, zone two cardio, just the basics of it when I was like in 2011. I was on the air dine for 60 minutes every day, rowing 10 to 15K a day at, you know, moderate paces that

kept my heart rate under control and just putting in the time and the mileage and the, just the the reps. And, um, and then that was kind of, those are the modalities I felt comfortable with and didn't put a lot of strain on my body because I didn't have great running mechanics and I didn't have a history of running. So it was like, well, if you do all this aerobic training on your feet, you're going to be pretty beat up and you're not going to be able to do as much in the gym training. So I kind of avoided it until it became such a glaring weakness in my crossfit sport arsenal. It was like, okay, well, you know, you want to go to the games, you want to do well at regional.

Like, you can't not be a good runner anymore. So then it was like, okay, take what I've learned about building aerobic power and aerobic endurance and translate that into running. And so started to build up some running, you know, into my training. And I did a lot of that along with swimming to be prepared for the sport. And then once the sport was over and I was like, done with that, I just didn't feel that. called to do a lot of like endurance training. I was in the gym and it was about raising some young kids, starting to build my business and being efficient with my time. And because it wasn't like my essence, I just kind of steered away from it. And then in the last couple years, I've just

sort of been like, you know, like I want to, this is maybe the next evolution for me. I want to incorporate more, get back to some of the endurance training that I had done in the past, not with the goal of running a sub three-hour marathon or anything like that, but just because it's, I did have, I did enjoy it when I gave room for it in my life. And then certainly, you know, the growth and the booming of like high rocks competitions. I was going to ask you about that. Yeah. And like hybrid training, like when my customers, you know, hundreds of people reaching out and like, hey, I want to do these things. Or many of our customers are doing our functional bodybuilding training three days a week, and then they're doing

endurance stuff on the side. And for me, to connect with my customer and the audience, like, I like to go and experience what they're doing. So that's been sort of like a draw for me, too. I got asked by a friend to do the November high rocks like partner competition, you know, for our age group. And I was like, is the Dallas one? It's actually the Chicago one. Chicago. Yeah. Because I'll be 40, and I guess there's a 40 age group. Oh, nice. Yeah, I turned 40 in October. So, you know, like, I'm not committed to it, but like, it's enticing to me. But I also know because I've trained and I have an understanding of, like, energy system training and I've been a coach for years and I've done it for, you know, CrossFit.

Like, I know it takes attention, time and dedication, and I'd want to do it the right way. And I want to do it the right way. and I want to train, you know, smart and not put myself in a position to be, you know, in too much fatigue where I can't run the business that I want to run and, you know, show up as a dad and the things that are of highest value to me right now. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at right now with some of my training. My daughter is going to turn two next month. My wife's pregnant, due with baby number two in August.

And when I go into these big endurance training blocks for an ultra or a marathon, it requires a tremendous amount of energy and intention and training. And it's not just that hour or two hours you might be running that day. I mean, you feel that the rest of the day. Yeah. And you're thinking about the next workout and you're kind of mentally prepping for it. Yeah. And that mental fatigue does affect my work. It affects me at home.

and my presence with my family. When you guys started building your family, started having kids, how did that change your opinion on training? How much time you were spending training? Did it change anything? Did it evolve? It did. I mean, it's a big reason why I didn't, I stopped competing in the sport.

You know, I was at my last CrossFit games in 2016, you know, prior to that, just to, like, touch on what you just said. Like people see athletes training for a sport. Like, oh, that's so physically demanding. But it's also emotionally and mentally demanding too. There's a lot that goes in psychologically, emotionally, you know, spiritually to those, the pursuit of actually, like, I'm doing this.

I'm going to do well. Like, I have to orient so much to it. It's very, it can be very selfish at times to like pursue high level athletic achievements because you really have to orient to do well. It's more than just physical preparation. It's so much more. Absolutely. So that fit in my life when we were just dating and I was not a, we weren't married yet. I wasn't, you know, a father. My business was still kind of in the early stages and, you know, I was like trying to build my career, but I hadn't really fully aligned with like, this is what I want to do.

And so we had our baby in February of 2017. And the last competition was in July of 16. So like I kind of knew. I was like, I just don't, I don't know what it's like to be a dad yet. I don't know how, but everything I hear, it's like it's going to be full on. And it's going to wholly change, you know, how I look at life and prioritize things. So I kind of started to just like see the right. writing on the wall, like, I'm not going to be able to do the CrossFit thing anymore,

compete at a high level because of all of that emotional, mental and physical, you know, energy that I won't be, I won't want to give or I won't be able to give. And so, yeah, that was my last competition shortly before we had a baby. I held on for a couple years to like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to press pause on it this year, but maybe next year I'll make a comeback. I'll make it comeback the next year. And each year that passed, I kind of held on to that like, oh, I'll make a comeback. back, but then as the time came to make a decision, it was like, no, it's still not. I still can't give this thing as much as I want to give it. And so that changed, you know, there was no need to do

double days anymore. Like, I remember, like, making that clear decision like, okay, like, I don't need to train twice a day. I'm going to shut that down and go back to just one training session a day. And there were parts of me that, like, was going to miss that. But then another part of me would was like, I'm giving this up because I'm excited about these other things that are happening in life. I want to be able to give more in these other areas. And I do recall sort of like maybe 2018, 2019 being like, yeah, I don't feel called to go back to the sport at all. Like I'm ready to take on other challenges. And yeah, there'll maybe be another physical challenge later in life that I want to pour energy into.

But it's not now and I'm not going to do it that way. but I still love to train and I still want to focus, like make that a focal point of my day each each day that I choose to do it. And it was scary to say, okay, I'm going to pull back from this and do it differently. Like, am I going to lose part of my identity? Are people going to see me the same way? Like if I'm not out doing the competitions or training at this high level, am I going to suddenly be command less authority, you know? And I've just been, it's, it's a, it's, proven to not be that whatsoever. Like with more time and energy devoted towards family or devoted towards business. Like I found other ways to express myself and become a more relatable and

effective coach that people can, you know, trust and they see me as an authority just in a different way. And that's ultimately what, you know, I really wanted to maintain. And I've had, Fortunately, I had a really great run of being a competitive athlete. And I got to finish kind of on a high note. It was like not like I had like, you know, there isn't something left on the table for me. It was like, wow, I checked a lot of boxes. That was beautiful. I'm good.

And I can really move on. How many kids do you have? Two now. And that's it for us. Did you realize all of this after the first or was it after the second where you had to really learn this? It was, yeah, it was like, in anticipation of the first, I saw the writing on the wall, something's going to change. After the first, a lot changed, but I held on to the glimmer of maybe it's going to,

maybe I'll make a comeback. And then the second was like, yep, that's it. Not like, yep, that's it. Dad bod time, I can't train anymore. Like, I'm letting it go. It was just like, yeah, I'm just not, I'm not going to give that. that extra bit of like I want to go and work hard but as soon as I leave the gym I just want to not think about it I don't want to be thinking about the next workout and how to prepare and make

sure I optimize my recovery and you know get stressed about it like you know when you get a hard workout coming up to do intervals or whatever you know that you get like kind of you get that like anxiety like Oh, yeah. This is going to be hard. And I mean, I recall, like, you know, people who know the CrossFit sport, there's the open season is when we do this CrossFit Open, you know, and it lasts, it kind of last, I remember from like four to six weeks, three to six weeks.

And they announced these workouts and you've got to go do them. And then you're going to post your score for the whole world to see and its qualification steps. And it used to be that for four or five weeks, I was just like a shell of a human. Like my girlfriend or fiancé or. wife, you know, at the time. Like, she just, she just knew, like, I'm kind of checked out. I was a bad coach. I was not a good coach on the floor when I was coaching. I was just all in my head. And it's like that type of anxiety and stress and like as an athlete, like that part, I just, I want that back. And that I'm going to pour into something else that's going to be highly fulfilling

for me, for my family and for other people. And I know that now and I can see. speak so confidently about it because I'm, I'm through so much of it. And I felt the, the win. But if I, I wouldn't have been talking like this, you know, between baby number one and baby number two. It was fear. It was, what's it going to be like? Oh, shoot. Like, how could I give that thing up? And, and if that's how you're, you know, if those are the thoughts that are going through your head at all, it's like, I get it. Like, it's, it's a scary thing because that's so ingrained in your identity, maybe as well as your, you know, your brand and your whole company and you're, you know, who you are or at least who you appear to be or maybe

people perceive you as or who you think they perceive you as. But I know that it's like who you are underneath that is so much bigger than, you know, the marathon time or the thing that you're pushing for. Like you have that inside of you and you'll channel it wherever you decide to channel it as a dad or as, you know, the CEO of this company. And anyway, Yeah, I'm writing a book right now. I just finished the manuscript. I've been working on it for over a year now. There's a lot of things that I've learned with my fitness journey, building a business, getting married, becoming a father. It's not necessarily that I have the answers. It's just I'm sharing where I'm learning along the way, that I'm learning through experiences or from mentors. One of the things that my marathon coach, Jeff Cunningham, really ingrained in me is that there's a difference between being all consumed and all in.

All consumed might be that segment where you're in the open where all you can think about with every part of your day in your life is the next workout and the stress around it. All in is when you're focused, but it doesn't deter you away from your other. life responsibilities. You're going to go crush that workout, but once a workout's done, you're there for your family, you're there for your business. There's a difference between all in

and all consumed, which is something I'm consciously aware of and sometimes battling at the same time. Yeah. And another thing I've learned since becoming a dad is that a lot of us that who are high achievers and go-getters, we build these routines out

and these routines allow us to live a life that is effective and efficient and optimized. But then when something gets thrown into our life that disrupts our routine, it's really easy to crumble and want to just even more closely attached to you and control that routine. But what I've had to learn since becoming a dad is that responsibilities will always come before routines. So responsibility over routine.

And those are two things I was just thinking about as you were kind of talking about that. I mean, those are really evolved, mature notions, you know, and I will admit that, like, I was not, I didn't win that all-in versus all-consumed, you know, battle. I was all consumed by a lot, especially as it got closer to, like, you know, having a family. It was, I was all consumed and I could see how that wouldn't, wouldn't jive with who I want. wanted to be and show up for us in my family. And there are people that are all in and they know how to be successful in their pursuits that are highly, you know, like aspirational, very high goals while being great parents and spouses and partners and friends and, you know, all of the other things.

And I admire the heck out of them. There were people my peers that I competed against and some of them did it incredibly well, or at least on the surface. You know, you never know until you're in the house, you know, after bedtime and you're hearing, you know, what the conversation's like. Yeah. Because people can make it seem like they got it all figured out. But in reality, like there's, there's tension, there's arguments, there's, you know, it's not as pretty. And there's certainly times like that. And in my relationship and our life, it's like, yeah, we deal with struggles because we're trying, I'm trying to do a lot of things. And my wife is trying to do a lot

of things and we have kids in the middle of it and it's like it's not it's a delicate delicate balance for sure but the only way to achieve a level of success like you going to the games multiple times and achieving the level of fitness that you did there's going to be a byproduct of collateral damage that comes with that their sacrifice to get there of course yeah but you have to decide are the sacrifices worth it at each stage of life you know In this season it was. At this season, I didn't think it was. And then years later, definitely not.

You know, it's definitely not. I was listening to a Chris Williamson podcast months ago. And he had Bill Perkins on there, who's the author of Die With Zero. Oh, yeah, of course. I've read that. And he was explaining this story where the takeaway from the stories that you can have everything you want in life as long as you do it in the right order. So this guy, he meets God.

This is just a story, but this guy, he meets God, and God says, what are all the things you want to do with your life? He's like, I want to make a lot of money. I want to sleep with a thousand women. I want to have this job, want to travel the world. I want to do all these things. He lists all the things he wants to do in his life. And God goes, okay, you can have all of these as long as you do them in the right order.

So you can't get married to have a family. and then go sleep with a thousand women. Right. Right. Or you could, and that might create something. You could. I guess you could. But I try to think of that on a regular basis where, you know, there's parts of life where there's going to be a transition and evolution.

And that might mean that your responsibilities have to shift and change. And it's okay to close one chapter or one door to open another. It doesn't mean you have to stop doing what you're, previously doing, but it might look a little different. Like when you retired from competing and competitive CrossFit and going to the games, that changed the way you train and approach training to show up for your family in a more meaningful way, I'm assuming. Yeah. Well, yeah, I think I love, I love just thinking about the seasons of life and, you know, acknowledging that there are going to be like, there's a time and a place for this and then there's a

time and a place for this. And I think one challenge, I know it comes up for a lot of men because I've gone through it. I've spoken about it with peers and people I know. But it's like, it's when the time comes to transition into a new season, like holding on to that past. Like, oh, having like resentment that you had to move on from it. Like, something, somebody else forced you into the next season. And this is a, you know, it kind of ties into what you were saying. It was like, hey, I have my routines. I love my routines.

And maybe the routine is like the routine you had for this phase of life. And I'm holding on to it. It's what anchors me. But now I have these commitments and these responsibilities with my family. And that comes before the routine. And you being able to like acknowledge that and be aware of it is beautiful. beautiful. And if you can not only be aware of it, but also accept it and embrace it, that's even more mature and beautiful. Because most many, rather, and myself included, like, will be resentful of that.

Like, oh, I want my thing back. I don't, I don't want this new thing. It's, it's so disruptive to what felt like this thing that I was holding on to so tightly. And now it's, completely changed. And I know that that was a challenge for me as a new father for a couple years, several years, was like, oh my gosh, like I didn't get to fully finish this season of life. It just changed too dramatically and too quickly. And oh, man, like, I have so much love for these new humans that are my children. And I am so longing for like a period of or a space in my life back that I is gone. You know, it's never going to be there again.

I'm never going to not have children in the way that I, you know, and be in this phase of life or this season. The acceptance and letting go and being like, okay, this next chapter, it has every likelihood of being better and more beautiful than it ever was before. I don't know it yet. I haven't experienced it, but it very well could be. And it most likely will. And if I listen to all the people that are at stages and seasons of life ahead of me,

the thing that I consistently hear is it just gets better. It just gets better. And being able to like really anchor into that and has been a big growth for me and a lesson that I've learned over the last, you know, seven years of being a parent and truly being able to like, oh yeah, that was a beautiful phase of life. and I love every part of it. Yeah, it was a little messy for a couple years after where I was feeling like, oh, it's gone, you know?

And now it's like, oh, it's gone. Great. Now there's room for something else. And it's beautiful. Transitions are, like life transitions are challenging and difficult. My wife tells me this all the time. She's like, sometimes you're still grieving your previous. life. And I don't want to share that to make it seem like becoming a dad has been a bad thing

by any means. But it's his natural life transition, which it's a massive transition. Yeah. Where you give up some of your freedoms to gain so much more on the other side, but it's still fighting that urge to just miss part of what was. Yeah. I'm still in that right now. I would imagine with one child and another on the way, I'm like, I was right there. I know that I remember that feeling for me.

And if you're going through anything similar, it's like I'm kind of like speaking to myself years later. And it's like accepting that like that grieving is so common. It is like almost, I don't, not universal, but like it's just so common. And it's totally appropriate. Like that's something I think. we have to go through as fathers to like then work into the next phase. And you're like, yeah, giving something up for something beautiful to come.

But in this window, maybe you haven't even experienced like the beauty of it to come. You've just been in the in the shit, like changing diapers. Like this kid's like nursing and I don't have this connection to this human yet. Like they're cute, they're sweet and I love it. but at the same time, I'm like, I don't have like a relationship yet. It's like it's a very and it's a stressful time because you're doing a lot of, you're juggling a lot of other things like in your life and, you know, having gone through that myself, it was, it was right when my business went from like, I was doing okay and then

functional bodybuilding took off. And I had a lot going on. I was excited about a lot of things. And I was also like, you know, so much is changing. Let go of this identity as an athlete. as a Prosphic competitor, and when I had more freedoms and I could control my routine and I could, you know, my sleep schedule was always on point and I could take care of myself and still show up for my wife at the time, you know, my fiance. And then now it's like, oh gosh,

I got to try, I want to attend to this business and I want to like maintain all those things, but I got to like, I'm also dad and like I'm doing all the dad things and there's a lot of sleepless nights and there's, you know, and I got to attend to my wife who's going through this massive transition. And now she's got like humans that are living off of her. Like, you know, they're feeding off of her. It's like, and so there's just, it's a, it was a rough time for me for sure. And I have been able to come out the other side and be able to look back and be like, yeah. I think the original question you asked was like, what was it like to transition away from that?

And did you know where there was a time? And no, there wasn't like a, okay, yeah, clearly I'm done with that and I'm moving on. It was like beautiful, muddy and gray and what's happening. And then, okay, I think it's pretty clear. I'm a few years out. And yeah, okay, made it through. You know, it's like a five-year, five-year shitstorm. Yeah.

I recently had one of our athletes, Sally McRae on the podcast, Ultra Runner. And one of the things she was talking about, she's prepping for Western States 100 right now, that she's learned over her lifetime. is that you have to be patient in your weaknesses or moments of, of weakness. And I think for a lot of people, myself included, who are like doers, you want to solve problems. When you identify something that's not working, you want to implement a solution right away. And it's reacting to that problem and finding a solution, just finding any solution.

What I'm finding now in this next chapter of life, it's sometimes it's okay to not find a solution for some of these things right away and just be patient in the weakness, be patient in the transition, and just learn and observe what's going on, and just taking your time with it, but not trying to put a band-aid on everything

as you're just blocking and tackling. Oh my gosh. This has just been the conversation for the last two, three days with the friends that I was with. I was like with a group of men and this was like, you know, big on on my heart too. It's like in relationship, in business, in athletics, like I want to fix things. Like that's how I'm oriented. It's like problem, solution, let's go.

Like, let's address it. And there's a whole other approach that certainly in relationship to my wife is, far more impactful than like, hey, there's this problem. Okay, let's try and solve it. And I'm learning that this is impactful and powerful in all things, like from athletics to relationships to business. It's like here's the problem that presents itself. The reaction is let me lean in and be curious about what's going on. How can I, oh, there's a problem. put the solution brain aside for a minute. Let me understand that better.

Ask more questions. Hey, like, honey, you, I didn't love it how that happened, how you did that thing or when you said that thing. And, you know, I'm feeling like there's, I need more of this from you. One way is like, well, no, I didn't say it like that. I meant it like this. And actually it was like this and like explaining and trying to like solve it. in the moment versus like, oh yeah, tell me more about that. Like what, how did I say?

What did I say that? And how did that feel? Okay. And then when you felt like that, like, what did that bring up for you? And it's like keep leaning in more and more. Show curiosity. Like how are we going to arrive at like what's really underneath it all? Because you try and solve things quickly.

It's like, oh, I got pain in my knee. Let me go and like ice it. Let me just ice it. It's like you got pain in your knee because your hip is all out of and you got bad running mechanics. And like, you just focused on the solution to this little, you know, just the, a whisper of a, of the problem. You didn't take time to investigate the whole thing.

And so that applies to so, like, and I know it as a coach when I'm coaching people. It's like, hey, you know, Marcus, like, my shoulder's hurting, like, what should I do? The early coach would be like, don't do the bench press. You know, the mid-level coach may start out. asking about like some soft tissue stuff. And the advanced coach is thinking like, hey, like, what else is going on in your life? Oh, you haven't been sleeping? Oh, you've not been doing that.

Oh, you've been traveling. Oh, you've been sitting at your desk longer than, like, you start to get more information. And then you're like, yeah, you know, it's probably not your shoulder. It's probably all these other factors. Like, it comes from when you take the time in your patient and like you lean into curiosity and in digging deeper. And that could be like in just a simple conversation or it could be over weeks or months where it's like, hey, something's going on with our social media profile and our engagement.

And I don't quite know why it's not working. It's like my business hat on. It's like, okay, well, let's double down on this and let's do this and let's do this. And you know, you got to, and you see no results. But you just tripled your effort. It's like, okay, let's go back to the square one. Let's start to be curious about what's happening. Let's look at the data.

Let's look at the trends. Let's start to think more critically about this before we dive into action mode. One of the things I heard you talking about when you were on Mark Bell's podcast, I think that was probably last year, is that you were a point in your life where you were extremely stressed out and you had like this severe back pain that was shooting down your leg. And I think, correct if I'm wrong, you attributed the best. back pain to the stress you were experiencing. And it wasn't actually a back issue in the first place. Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah. Yeah, sure. There, yeah, so I was, I had a back injury when I was

in college and that really completely resolved. You know, I mean, it was, never had like imaging or any like diagnosis, but, you know, I know enough to know there's, there's some, there's some disc, issue going on probably and I had like nerve pain in my leg and you know common like lumbar disc herniation symptoms not so severe that it was like I was couldn't walk or anything but it was it was significant years later I'm competing in CrossFit I've done all kinds of things of deadlifted 500 pounds I've done you know I've done all the things that somebody who has a back injury should never be able to do so I know that I'm capable of so much more and I was in my first year of individual competition in CrossFit.

They have a team competition and an individual competition. And the team was where I got my start, had some success. And then it was kind of like going from like the minor leagues to the major leagues to say, okay, I'm going to switch over to individual competition. People throw faster. The competition's harder. It's more demanding. All the things, right?

So in my first year of individual competition, like my stress load went up dramatically, physically, you know, and then also the emotional and psychological stuff that goes with like, oh gosh, I got a lot on my plate. I've got to compete against these athletes that are so much better. And, you know, I was anxious and stressed and worried about it. And so all of this growing amount of stress. And I'm still physically capable.

I'm making my, you know, way through it. But that stress load just, built and built and built. And then we did the CrossFit Open. And oh my gosh, that was so stressful. And I qualify for regionals. You know, my first year as an individual, okay, this is really stressful, stressful.

And like a couple weeks out from competition, like my back is just like on fire. Like it feels close to as bad as it was in college when I heard it. But there wasn't anything acute? No acute. Just training, stress. like nervous systems kind of ramping up and just revving super high. Right.

You know, I'm sure my HRV sucked at the time. I didn't have the data, but, you know, it was just, I wasn't in like an optimal state for good recovery and the worry was there. And it was like to the point where I was like crying in my office. Like I'd work out and then go into the back of the gym to be like crying because it's like, I'm in so much pain and like, I can't do this. I can't handle the stress. I remember that day I was crying in my office it was like partly pain but just more like

overwhelmed like this is too much I'm scared I don't think it's possible I don't think I can do it and I remember at that moment reaching out to my coach and just being like via email because that's how we mostly communicated maybe it was a text message but it was like all right I'm quitting this season I can't I can't go on like this isn't good for me like hurts too much I don't want to let anyone down. I kind of started making all these like, I don't know, excuses, but like I was just, I was looking for an out. And, you know, my coach said a lot of things to me in that conversation

and a lot of the right things that sort of I felt for a moment like, I'm not alone in this. Somebody understands how hard this is for me. And it was almost like my nervous system had a chance to just like, like relax for a second. Like, oh, someone else. else is holding this stress with me. And we were going to make some adjustments, but it was like, you're not quitting. Like, I, that's not, do you really think you're going to let people down?

Like, who are those people? Go talk to them today. Are you letting, ask them, hey, am I going to let you down if I, you know, whatever, if I don't do well at the competition or if, and it just, there was enough questions that were posed. It got me curious, right? The curiosity. It's like, okay like I just need my body and my brain to just chill for a minute and within a week I was back feeling good back was not an issue I was training hard and within two weeks regional's happened and I qualified for my first CrossFit games and it was like this epic epic experience like truly epic. I like edged out the other top guy in the region, the last clean at 225 of the competition, stepped across the finish line the second before him. And, you know, like, it's just a wonderful

experience that I'll never forget. And three weeks before, I'm crying in my office and be like, I need to quit because it hurts too much. And it's just like showing that there's like this, you know, this psychosomatic connection that just is real because our, our thoughts, our emotions, they impact so much of what we experience in our body because of the dynamic nature of our nervous system. Do that back injury ever flare back up? Probably over the course of the next few years. Like, yeah.

And even still to this day, like, it'll get hot. You know, I have a little something in there, but I take care of it. And because I don't have as much stress on my physical stress on my plate and I manage my stress in other ways, like I know, I know. like I know myself now like if I'm under a lot of stress I don't go and try and do crazy hard workouts like whereas during crossfit competition years like it was there was not really an option it's like you got to train hard no matter what this scenario is so I manage it really well now but but that was like a that was a moment where I I really that helped me evolve as a coach so much

was like look at this like look at how much. much happened in such a short time. And I didn't go get an injection. I didn't go get, you know, like, I worked back to like, well, what's, what's happening here underneath the pain is a very scared, stressed, like, sympathetically driven nervous system person, like at every step of the day. And I needed to, like, find a way to relax. And, and, and, lower my frequency for just long enough to let it kind of unwind and then build the confidence back up and be like, okay, I can do this. And I went and did it. I mean, the amount of health issues that stress creates on the body over a long period of time, I think I'm learning even as I get

older and I'm managing more things in my life, understanding and learning how to manage stress, but realizing that when I'm under a lot of stress and that stimulus extends for long, durations, it just like chips away at your health. I've talked about this many times before, but whenever I go into a marathon prep, for example, doesn't matter what time of the year when, how I'm feeling that entire prep, like eight to 10 days before that marathon, before that race, an injury flares up. Oh my gosh. I love this. Okay. Every single time. And I'm like, it'll be the point where I can't walk on my foot. Yeah. It comes out of nowhere. I'm like, What the shit?

Like, I was fine yesterday. I wake up. I can't walk at all. And then it starts getting my head. Like, I can't race in eight days. There's no way. And then what happens on race day? Come up race day.

You forget it ever existed. And it's never there ever again. It's like we used to call me. It was so common. Like it happened every time. Me and my buddy, my closest friend training partner at the time, we used to call them phantom pains. I've heard them called that.

Yeah. Well, I mean, and they're real at the time. But it's like, oh, like I would call them. like, oh, you know, Danny, something's hurting. He's like, oh, yeah, the phantom pains are here. It's almost game time. Like, we're ready to go. Almost got to a point where it was like, I would say it to my wife. She's like, okay, you must be close to being ready. Yeah. Your back is talking to you. It's like competitions, yep, in a week. Like, it makes sense. It's wild how that works. It's so crazy. What do you do now to manage stress? Do you think you live a pretty stress-free life?

pretty stressful? Like, what do you do to manage it? No, I mean, I think what I've learned the most over the years is that stress is all about perception, you know, like there's nothing, yeah, there's, well, and there's nothing that is like categorically and objectively stressful to this degree. It's, it's how you perceive that stress. I mean, I suppose, like, you know, going under a, getting hit by, you know, a certain amount of force, like, there's an objective amount of stress that just got into your body. But most people are talking about stress in other ways. Like there's physical stress,

which is always relative to how fit you are and what your base of conditioning and training is, right? Like, if I were to go out and do your mileage this week, I'd be torched. But for you, it's like, this is where I'm at in my training and this is what I can tolerate, and it's perfect for me. From adaptation.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. The parts that are like less objective, and measurable, it's like the mental stress, the emotional stress, you know, relationship stress, like someone might think like, oh, geez, like you've got two kids that are at this age and you've got to, you know, manage these things and you've got a business with this many employees and, oh, man, that must be so stressful. And to one person, it just makes, keeps them up all night

and makes them feel a certain way. For another person, it's not. You know, it's, they just observe and perceive it differently as like, oh, this is just me. This is my life and I'm good with it. They know how to switch off their brain in this way versus this way they don't know how to switch off their brain. I have learned over the years that, like, I have more of the mindset to perceive things

as stressful and anxiety-provoking. Like, I run anxious. And so that has been the biggest tool for me to lean into as I manage stress is awareness and then reframing. It's like, my life's not going to change. I'm not going to suddenly not have kids that I'm taking care of. I'm suddenly not going to have a business that's, you know, got this many variables to it. I don't want to lose any of this stuff. I don't want any of it to go away.

So the only choice I have is to view it differently, perceive it differently. I could look at this and let the anxiety thoughts spiral, or I could get clear that this is just the thought loop that I'm in. And I can choose to stop it and see it and be like, oh yeah, Marcus, you're doing the kind of ruminating thinking on this problem. It's not productive. Let's acknowledge that it's there. Like you're a human. You get stressed. Do you have anxiety?

Okay. It's there. Let's come back to what's really in front of you. Right. You're okay. The house is okay. Your kids are okay. People are getting value from the content you're putting out. Like you're making a difference.

Like go outside. Yep. The world's not on fire. It's all good. It's all good, right? And so that is, that's the way I'm, managing stress is, or the work that I'm doing is to just become more aware that stress is perception of our life and recognize it.

Recognize it. Be okay. Like, just be like, hey, it's okay to have felt that. It's okay to get wrapped up in it. Like, you're human. That happens. But let's not confuse the thinking with reality, right? Like reality is a different construct.

It doesn't, it's not this. And then, you know, being able to speak the same language with my wife around this stuff, having both of us, you know, be working on ourselves in therapy, you know, like approaching these conversations for years, having a common language. She knows my tendencies, like that relationship being this anchor for, for me to, to navigate stress. that has been, you know, like, yeah, you could meditate, go on a sauna, go do your, like, those are tools. But I think those things are ultimately there to help you have more awareness and change your perception of what's in front of you.

I love that. Awareness, recognize, reframe. I oftentimes am best able to do this when I'm actually on a run. Yes. If I'm dealing with something, when I'm running, that's where I am most aware with what's going in my life. Again, I have a really honest conversation with myself. I can recognize it. Can't lie to myself. And then I reframe it. So typically when I get back from a run, I am in the best headspace going into a new day.

And honestly, that's why I continue to run. Yeah. As much as I do run, because I know when I do, it sets my day up. up for true success and on the right foot with a strong foundation. That's why I love walking and rucking. I get that same feeling. It's that like kind of repetitive, consistent motion. If I went running, I probably would effort too hard for me to really have a clear stream

of thinking because I'm not a really efficient runner. It took me a while to get to that point. Sure, yeah. Yeah, years. Kind of on the heels of that stress. I wanted to talk about food, stress around food, body dysmorphia. You know, when I was younger, 14, 15 years old, I talked about this a lot on this podcast, but I had a pretty severe eating disorder.

So for years, I've been dealing with unhealthy relationships with food. Yeah. I heard you telling a story on a podcast about how when you were in college, you got objectively chubby, and one of your teammates said you were looking a little abdominalous. And that moment changed the trajectory of potentially your life, your career, relationship with fitness and food. Obviously, around that time frame,

there was problems or concerns with maybe the way you were looking and affected your relationships with fitness, training, food. Do you still ever stress out about the way you look, maintaining a certain level of leanness, especially with the platform that you have and the business that you have, does that still contribute to any stress in your life?

Yeah, I'm, I mean, I'm sure you probably know the answer to this. And it's, yeah, for sure. I mean, it's, that's why I've been more open about it and talking about it in some of the, you know, social media platforms or content lately is, it's been a complicated you know I mean it's 20 years so I was 19 when that you know maybe even 18 when that happened um I'm 39 now so you know it did change the way I looked at myself and food and the relationship had moved in and my body for now the

the better half of my life um it was it was partly the you know, objective criticism, which, you know, it was, it was sort of probably playful banter from him and he didn't like mean to send me down some, you know, shame spiral about my body and change the course of my life. But it certainly, I think from that moment onward, and then the many months that followed where I made like, you know, concerted efforts to change that and to get really lean and And to get ripped for the first time of my life, like, that phase created a new awareness of my body that has lasted even to this day. There have been periods where it was healthy and really positive, and there's been some

periods where it's been not so healthy and quite negative. But, and I think building more knowledge and understanding of the interplay between movement, nutrition, relationships, life, psychology, you know, and. know, over 20 years has helped me navigate it tremendously. It's also inspired me to educate people and to help people because I, it is a very pervasive and common, commonly held thing that we share is the negative self-talk around some, about people's bodies. Like, ask somebody, hey, have you ever looked at yourself and felt negative about what

you saw? Almost universally, people say yes. There's very few people that are like, no, I've been stoked every time I've looked at myself forever. Now, the varying degrees of that. And not everyone goes so far that they develop, you know, disordered patterns of eating or emotional distress and psychological turmoil that might be clinically diagnosed as something. But it's common. And so, you know, over the years, I think some big,

periods that were notable were like okay college got a little bit too into this notion of deprivation like bodybuilding cut kind of eating in a deficit for prolonged periods of time because I didn't want to like not be lean anymore I didn't want to bulk up I was like I'm attached to this look of who I am undernourishing myself for too long training really hard injury happens that was when I hurt my back Okay, so that was a big lesson. Then there was like years of getting more education around food and appreciating like nourishing myself and just getting my strength and my health back and feeling great in my physical body, but then years later seeing a body that was heavier than I wanted it to be in.

It didn't have an aesthetic. So then how do I navigate that? How do I bridge this gap? Like I want to feel good, but I want to look at it. good. I wanted to like align. I happened to find CrossFit. CrossFit was this kind of beautiful like seven, eight year period where I just got super focused on training and I was training so much and eating quality food because there was a big culture of like eating good ingredients, getting protein, all the things. I wasn't counting macros or doing anything like that. I'd kind of

said like, oh, I'm never going to do that again because that kind of messed me up. But it was like not true. I didn't get messed up from counting calories. I got messed up from eating 1,800 calories for, you know, nine months in training as a D1 soccer player and lifting like a maniac, right? So, but CrossFit was like this beautiful period where like, I didn't have to think about it too much because I was just, I had such a high volume of training and I had such a good amount of muscle mass and I was just moving. And fire is burning. Yeah, it's just like, I was just, I was ripped and looking good and feeling good without much thought. I mean, enough thought. but not as much as most people would need to put into it.

And then there were the years post, you know, competitive sport where it's like, okay, my training volume went down. I'm struggling to, like, adjust to, like, how do I eat, to, like, fuel myself. But now I'm not training as much. So, like, do I need as many carbs? And maybe I need to adjust some things, like, rewiring my brain there. And there was, like, a couple years post-crossFit where I was, like, man, I feel like I'm, muscular and I'm big, but, like, man, I just feel big.

I don't, I'm not like putting this to use. Like, and that started to play with my psyche too. And then there was like, you know, COVID where I went, you know, like training focus changed. I started, I started to like experiment with like intermittent fasting, which I basically put myself in another calorie deficit. And I got really lean. I got really like lowish single digit body fat and was. training in my backyard and the sun was always shining on me and filming all this content. I remember seeing all those videos. Yeah. It was like and then people were paying attention to me.

Like Instagram followers skyrocketing and like lots of engagement and you know, I'm like, oh wow, look at this is like a tool. Like people are recognizing this and like it's, it's good for my business and I like the way I look and you know, it's, it's not as, I mean, in hindsight, it's like, well, that's not a sustainable like level of, body fat and, you know, body composition for a long time. But it was like I was vibing off of it and it was feeling good and I felt great. And then kind of like the mistake I made in college where I was like, oh, I don't want to let this go.

I kind of held on to it a little too long into 21 and even partly into 22. And energy levels start to drop. And I'm like, why? How do I now adjust for that? Start to feel good in my body again, feel good in my energy. and then separate that from like the objective look and the aesthetic and what people perceive me as and how I see myself. And so the last few years have been more complicated than they were in my CrossFit years.

And now there's like attention, you know, from the outside and particularly through our social media platforms and how I get education and information out there. Like I'm a coach and I know people appreciate my story and they appreciate the message and they appreciate the authenticity and the information. And a lot of people stop scrolling to click when they see a body that it looks a particular way. Like, oh, what's the play between that? And then it's just inside of myself. Like, I've gotten used to a certain body and relationship to food.

Like making a categorical shift to that, whether it be to like try and lose a bunch of weight or gain some weight or bulk up or put on some more weights so that I'm at a healthier body composition. That's something I think a lot of people can resonate with is like making changes hard and seeing yourself in a particular way and having negative self-talk can be really damaging to like you following through with your goal.

I don't like the way I look today. I've been putting in six weeks of hard work, but man, I caught the wrong glimpse of myself in the mirror and I just want to like say, F it and go eat a bunch of bad food. Or in my case, it's like I want to start putting on weight. My goal was like to add five to 10 pounds this year, whether it meant putting on some body fat or not. I just needed to do it.

And five pounds into it, oh man, I'm, I don't like what I'm seeing. I'm feeling kind of puffy. I'm just going to go back and start eating less and cut. You know, like I want to just turn it around. right but like no i i know that going that way isn't what i want that doesn't feel good like that that was i don't want to go backwards i want to i want to stick to this and that was that's been the a big lesson for me and how i'm taking my personal experience and applying it to coaching and to the message it's like that is something a lot of people share is you stay committed

on a path to i want to do this thing this is where i i want to be i have this vision and along the way you have this negative self-talk about your body or you see the look in the mirror and you're like all this hard work and I look at that like I don't like the way that looks and it leads to some feeling of shame and God people must think I'm fat or people must think I looked at that or just screw it all let me just go and binge on this food and and then that sends you down this pattern of like I have so much shame for then binging and now I'm just going to say F it for a whole week and then I got to get back on the... And so I think sharing some of that with people

and being like honest, like, yeah, I think maybe objectively from the outside, most people would be like, dude, you've got a great physique. Like, how would you ever be, like, upset with what you see in the mirror? And it's like, well, it's true. It happens. And I'm not like asking for pity or, like, oh, poor Marcus.

It's just... I think it's just part of a human experience that a lot of people go through in modern times when there's a perception that like we have to look a particular way. And if we look this way, it means something about who we are. And then people are judging us. And, you know, it's so complex. Yeah.

I think it's really important. I appreciate you sharing that, all of that. One of the reasons I love sharing my experience with a past eating disorder and unhealthy relationships with food, it goes back to the way you navigate stress. One, it's acknowledgement, recognizing that, hey, being aware, this is what's happening in my life right now. This is a problem.

And then reframing, well, how should I be looking at food and my body in that relationship, in my training, in the way I feel and fuel? Because I've met so many people in the fitness space, whether they have built a platform or a business around that passion in their life, or they just do it because they enjoy it. There's a lot of people who have unhealthy relationships with food, and I don't think it's going away. I think it's only getting wilder.

It's something I'm very conscious of, especially as I'm raising kids, and I first was a daughter. So I think about that frequently. But I think it's, like you said, one, having the awareness that, I have this relationship with the way I look, or I have this unhealthy relationship with food

and then reframing potentially the way you view it or you approach it, but you have to be aware. Because so many people have this problem and they even try to convince himself that it's not a problem. Yeah. Somebody said something to me yesterday that really,

and this is maybe a message to people in the industry who are coaching or, you know they're they're basically in a position to guide other people in fitness and health and fitness and if they've had the thought of like people are showing up because i look a particular way i need to be a particular way i look a particular way physically otherwise i won't be a you know i won't be a respected coach um somebody said to me yesterday like like people are showing up for your energy your essence you bringing a level of of like enthusiasm and connection to your relationships with them.

They're not showing up because you got a sick body. Like that might have got their attention, but now the thing that matters is how well do you show up for them? And in the pursuit of trying to like really keep like a particular aesthetic or physique or look as a trainer, I see myself included like people will kind of do extreme stuff. to the point where they're just kind of low energy and they're just like, okay, I look sick,

but I just kind of am kind of flat. I'm kind of not my full self. Or they could be training so hard because they think I need to train so hard to be a respected coach and they're so exhausted when they're done training that they're not showing up fully. They feel compelled to like do more and more and more.

And it was like, if the approach that you have and the relationship you have with food and with training is zapping your energy so much, that you can't bring the energy to your clients, then how important is that? Like, how good is that for anyone? You're not giving them the thing that they need from you, which is your full energetic, like, self.

You walk into a room with them or you show up on camera. You got to bring it. And if you're so depleted and so feeling so deprived and overextended and under-calorie and all that stuff, people are going to see it. and they're going to start to disconnect with you. And you might look amazing, but, like, everything you're doing else is flat

and is not inspiring them. And when I heard that, it's like, one, I was like, yeah, I've known that, but, like, to have someone articulate that to be like, yeah, like, the goal with this whole thing is to bring my best self, well, for my, for me, like, I want to show up and feel like my best self each day because it's my life. It's my experience.

Like, at the end of the day, it's like we got one shot of this thing. Like, why spend any significant period of time in your life feeling crappy, feeling low energy and feeling deprived and depleted? Two, then it's like your inner circle of people like, I want to show up great for my kids and my wife and my close friends. Like, I want to be there for them. And if I'm feeling depleted and I'm low energy and it's time to pick them up from school and we're supposed to play, like, and I'm just like,

girls, I don't feel like doing the thing. Like, is that the legacy that you want, like, to have with them? Is that what you want them talking about, you know, years from now? Like, my dad was always, like, really tired. He didn't really, like, he was, like, busy running, but then when it came time to play, like, didn't want to play with us. Like, that's hard. That's heavy.

I've seen it in this hybrid culture that's building. It was probably the same thing in, like, the cross-fills. culture growing up, but it's like this, you have to one-up everyone else. Yeah. So I love this hybrid culture because it's the combination of running and strength training. Occasionally, we'll go out and do these big efforts, a marathon, ultra-marathon. It's not an every weekend type thing. I think some people still believe, think that I'm running 100 miles every Saturday and training

all day every day. But it's like, I'm seeing this online. It's this one-up thing where. It's like now I'm not just running and lifting the same day. I'm running 20 miles. I'm running 25 miles. I'm running 30 miles. I'm lifting two hours, three hours.

Like, hey, guys, that's not the point. The point isn't to one up and do more. And like your whole day is spent training. Yeah. Yeah, there's a limit to it. And I remember going back to the podcast with Kelly, Starrett, like, there was a quote from it where I was like, you know, we want people to work hard.

We want them to train hard. But we don't want them to train so much that it blows up the rest of their life. You know, it's like you keep trying to one-up it. Eventually, you're going to cross a threshold where it starts to now bleed into other aspects of life and you're not bringing your best self. And we saw that in the CrossFit world for sure. I believe it. Everyone won up being. There was a competition every weekend.

and, you know, members were signing up for this throwdown and this throwdown and this throwdown. It was like, you know, and they were like getting injured and just like crushed. And I was like, easy. Like, I mean, I know I'm competing three times a year, but like even that's too much. Yeah, it's like that culture of like got to get, you know, one up, one up, one up, is, it's fun to a certain point. And then it becomes kind of toxic for you and your life. it's not worth it. And you can say that confidently in hindsight.

You're like, oh, I did that. I've been there. I've kind of fallen into that trap. And some people just need to learn it by going through it. I agree. Sometimes when someone's in it, you can't convince them otherwise. No. They just, they have to reach red line and burnout.

And they look back in hindsight, like you said, and say, oh, yeah, that was not the smartest idea. But like, yeah, sometimes you just got to let people run the course. And when they get to the other side, they'll quickly realize it doesn't always work. This ain't it. Marcus, man, I appreciate it. This was a great conversation. Likewise, Nick, this has been so fun.

Sometimes I sit down with people. I mean, we've talked four minutes before we start recording this. Sometimes I feel like I've been like, I've known you for quite a long time. We just like jump right into a great conversation. So I appreciate you, man. And everything you're putting out there, your message, everything on not only functional bodybuilding, but now learning more about you through this conversation, just the way you approach your family and business and life overall and navigating these life transitions.

I think a lot of people can take a lot of different things away from it that will have massive benefits in their life. So all good stuff, man. I appreciate you. Yeah, I appreciate you too. Thank you for saying those time words. And the feeling is totally mutual. I admire what you're doing from the outside. And I see the impact that you're having on a lot of people and the platform that you're creating here for to share the message of a lot of great creators and influential people. and I'm super honored to be a part of it. And to get to meet you in person and to just, yeah, feel this energy in here. So thank you.

Well, thanks, man.