The Nick Bare Podcast - 089: How Cancer Transformed Amanda Kimiko's Life and Mindset to Conquer Leadville 100

Episode Date: October 14, 2024

In this episode, we dive into the story of Amanda Kimiko—military veteran, cancer survivor, and ultra-endurance athlete. Amanda’s mantra, Unbreakable, is more than just a word; it’s how she approaches life’s toughest moments. From overcoming cancer to taking on the Leadville 100 Ultra Marathon, she’s proof of what’s possible when you push your limits. Amanda recaps Leadville, shares how ultra running became a path to personal growth, overcame cancer twice, and how it shaped her in ways beyond the physical. Her journey is a testament to resilience, strength, and the relentless pursuit of one more. Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 00:54 Amanda Kimiko Intro 01:11 Living in Austin? 02:22 The Vibrant Austin Community 03:50 Conquering Leadville 100 04:29 The Emotional Finish Line 07:53 The Challenge of Hope Pass 17:14 The Highs and Lows of Ultra Running 31:00 The Unbreakable Mindset 33:28 The Origin of My Mission 33:56 Facing a Life-Changing Diagnosis 35:04 Defying the Odds 35:49 Finding Light in Darkness 37:39 The Power of Mindset 39:10 Life Before and After Cancer 39:38 The Role of Culture and Family Expectations 56:31 Military Life and Transition 01:03:48 Training for Leadville 100 01:08:24 The Unique Challenges of Ultra Running 01:13:01 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Strength, endurance, and wellness supplements to fuel your performance. SAVE 10% at BPN Supps: https://bit.ly/nickbare10audio Follow: IG: instagram.com/nickbarefitness/ YT: youtube.com/@nickbarefitness Keep up with Amanda IG: https://www.instagram.com/justmissamanda/

And my cancer, in my opinion, caused me to live in a way that was so much more authentic to who I was. And even up into this point, like, I feel like I'm actually living my life out. And cancer, I say this in people might cringe a little bit, but I feel as though that cancer has saved my life. And when I say that, I mean, not necessarily like my physical body life, but like my intentional and like super vibrant, authentic life. I just feel like Unbreakable was a way that I kind of convinced myself mantra-wise. Every time that I was challenged by something was just this one word that I could think about when things got tough. Of like, no, you're unbreakable. And it was really special when I started sharing because I realized that this went way beyond me

and that I can impact others and allow other people to also understand that there's so much light within darkness, but it's up to you to find that light. Today on the podcast, we have Amanda Kamiko. Welcome. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. What's going on? Not much.

Just being in Austin. I feel like I'm like halfway living here, halfway living in Utah. But I love it. It's awesome. You like Austin? I do. Yeah. We're actually looking here.

Really? Yeah. Mitch was our real estate agent. No way. That was probably about a year ago. You were or you are? We were. About a year ago, we came and we toured a bunch of places.

but we decided to move to Utah, and we love it. What made you say no to Austin? I'm just not like a city gal, but I was going to move to Austin for the community aspect. I feel like it's incredible here, and the running community is awesome, but I would be sacrificing the mountains and the trails, and that's a huge sacrifice for me. And it came down to like a safety also choice. Utah's crazy safe, great place to raise family. and we just, we kept getting farther and farther away from the city.

And we were like, okay, if we're going to live in Austin, I want to live in Austin. But with all the things that we wanted, we just couldn't find, like, the right place. Yeah. But I love coming, I love coming to visit and eating food. We were just talking about that. Running with the friends on, like, Lady Bird Lake. It's awesome. But yeah, just to work out.

Sorry, Mitch. Yeah, Austin is one of my favorite cities, honestly in the world. of the places I've been. Yeah. There's something special and unique about running downtown, around town lake. The food scene is incredible. You have all these different styles of food. People are very active.

Fitness is like a priority for many people. But we don't have the mountains. No. And we don't have the terrain, elevation change. And that's one thing that I wish so badly we had here. I'm trying to convince my wife right now. into getting a second home somewhere in the mountains. Yeah.

So we can go and just hike and explore and camp. And I want my kids to grow up in that type of environment and just be thrown out there and just all adventure. We just don't really have much of that here in Texas. Utah has a ton of that. I've seen that. Yeah, it's incredible. When the boys came out and filmed, it was insane.

Like, I mean, they were both, everyone was like, oh, wow, it's like you fly in and there's 360. degree views of the mountains. It's something very special. But I will say Austin community, you can go to Town Lake at any point in the day, and there's always people running. And that's super special too. Especially if you're already in the fitness space, like being surrounded by other people who are into it as well, like there's nothing quite like it. It's pretty sweet. It's unique. It's very unique. It's very unique. So you recently completed Ledville 100. Yes. First off, congratulations. Thank you so much.

amazing experience. I ran Ledville in 2021 and it changed my life. It changed my view and perspective on running endurance as a whole, ultra running. And it unlocked for me a part of my physical, mental and emotional abilities where I realized I can, you can do so much more that you might have ever thought was possible. When you cross the finish line of Leadville 100, you got quite emotional. I saw from the video and I've heard you speak about why. For anyone who has run an ultra before,

especially Leadville, they can relate. But for someone who hasn't done 100-mile race or put in a big effort, a big prep, why is it such an emotional experience to cross the finish line? Oh, that's a great question. I think everyone's experience is really different. But for me, I, when I'm in the action of racing, I keep it together. Like, I feel like in general, I'm not very emotional.

I don't really let my emotions rule what I'm doing, specifically when I'm racing, because I'm so focused on each individual step that I'm taking, each aid station. So I kind of, like, held it all in together throughout the race. And 100 miles, like, you're talking over a day's work of effort. you're going through all of these emotional roller coaster, I mean, flows of really positive time, flows of really negative time, and you're trying to just kind of keep yourself streamlined. And for me, this race was so much more than just running 100 miles. And it was so much more than just, you know, racing another race.

You know, the meaning behind this race was really deep for me. So I felt all of that emotion as soon as I crossed the finish line of like, we freaking did it. Like all of the effort that we put in before this race, all the effort that crew put in at the race, like, it all finally paid off. So I think it was a combination of, like, storing all those emotions for so long and then finally being able to, like, release them at the finish. But then also, like, thinking about my why and the reason of why I wanted to cross that finish line in the first place and feeling, like, the depth of that and extreme gratitude. And, yeah, it was super special. incredible. I'm not really a cryer. Like I don't, I'm not like I don't cry like on a daily basis or like I don't find myself very emotional, especially in athletics. But that moment and even like at Ironman finish,

like I just get emotional at the finish lines. I don't, I don't think that'll ever change. I think that's really special. If I had like boil down to why it's emotional for me at least, it's pride. You know, it's really hard, I believe, to constantly be proud of yourself, especially for high achievers. For me, at least, I'm always pushing. And I'm satisfied. I'm not necessarily satisfied.

I'm proud of where I'm at, but I'm not necessarily satisfied with where I'm at. And it's what's the next thing? like how much further can I push? Where is my full potential exist? And when you do this big effort, you put all this work in and you have pride behind the outcome

of where you've gotten to, when it's rare, it's really heavy. It means a lot. And that's where the emotions come from. Yeah. That's what I feel. I agree 100%. So I want to talk about your prep a little bit later.

Okay. Because I think you did a really good job with your prep. It was very well structured and intentional. I want to talk a little bit about Leadville before getting into some of your story. Specifically, I want to talk about Hope Pass. And just the destruction that Hope Pass is, not just the fact that you have to do it once, but you have to do it twice. How did it feel coming back over a Hope Pass the second time? I think there might be a clip, actually, on the GoPro. I mean, coming back over the over hope the second time is like a huge celebration.

I actually outwardly expressed like a big woo when I got to the top like, woohoo! Like we did it. And I have people behind me. I was like, we did it. Congratulations. Because at that point, we were like 55 miles in. So not only did we we summit a mountain pass once.

We then descended the mountain pass twice and then turned around and went. back up for another summit of the mountain pass, and we're 55 miles in at that point. So, I mean, the feeling of overcoming those two big feats and knowing that at this point, like now we're in the back half of the race, it's going to be more difficult in other ways. But as far as elevation gain and what people, what you hear about with Ledville is Hope Pass, and we did it, that accomplishment felt so, so good. And like one of my most joyous, I think, times of the race was summoning Hope Pass the second time. Let's, for anyone who isn't familiar with Leadville or Hopass, I think we need to truly give it this part of the race justice.

Okay. And just like explain it a little bit. So the first, and correct me if I'm wrong, first 38 miles gets you to Twin Lakes. Twin Lakes is the checkpoint before you climb Hopass the first time. And you're starting this race at just above 10,000 feet of elevation. So you're at elevation. It's some climbing, it's some descending this first 38 miles. It's nothing crazy.

And they say when you get the Twin Lakes at mile 38, that's when the real race starts. So let's paint a picture of what happens from mile 38 to, mile 50 and then coming back to, I guess it is 62 after that. So paint me a picture. You get to Twin Lakes, you refuel with your crew, you head out for Hope Pass. What's it look like? What's it feel like? What are you experiencing? Yeah. So Twin Lakes One, I guess is what we called it, right? Leaving Twin Lakes 1 at 38. For one, your pack is significantly heavier if you're preparing. So up into this point, we're seeing crew every 12. We're having an aid station every 12 and then a 24.

So we've had to carry like a, I guess like a moderately sized pack. When we leave for Hope Pass, we leave at 38, Twin Lakes 1. We know that we're only going to have crew back at 62. So if you think about that span of time, we need to prep for that amount of time, carry that much amount of gear. We have to carry different gear as well. We know that our feet are going to be wet leaving Twin Lakes 1 because they make us run through a river. And then also submitting Hope Pass twice. So we have to bring things like

poles, even headlamps if it gets dark. So just in general, it felt, you know, we went from kind of a lighter pack to a significantly heavier pack leaving for Hope Pass. And then knowing that I was going to see my crew for over six hours, that was also something to keep in mind as well. Because up into that point, we were able to see crew at Mile 24 and then 38, kind of mentally prepping for that. But honestly, I was so stoked. for Hope Pass. I had already summited Hope Pass in the week leading up because we went out so early. So I had an idea of what the first half of Hope Pass was going to be like. I had no idea what the second half was going to be like. But this is kind of where hikers thrive. And coming from a

mountaineering background, I know what it's like to be on a mountain. I know what it's like to hike for a long period of time. So honestly, I was really excited. And the first, I would say, like two miles leading up to Hope Pass is pretty flat, nice rolling hills, kind of through. You were like, I almost feel like cow fields. And I don't know if they had this when you raced, but did you, they have you run through like a like a poopy section? No, I don't remember the poopy section. It was like cow manure had sat with water.

So they had this like great that you had to run over. And within the first mile of leading mile 38, your shoes are literally filled with poop water. Interesting. Cow poop water. And then you have to cross the river. and you start the climb with wet feet. So that's another factor that I think a lot of people, it's really unique to Leadville is you start this like massive climb

with completely drenched feet. Yep. And then you start the ascent of Hope Pass. So you end at, I think it's like right around 13,000 feet of elevation. But yeah, once again, coming from right around 10,200. And that climb is brutal. You see people drop out left and right. people even DNF mid climb of Hope Pass just deciding that they don't want to continue.

So we had a big congline going up, Hope Pass. We have single track trails for quite a while underneath the tree cover, which is an interesting experience. But then once you get to Hope Pass Aid Station, it starts to open up. And Hope Pass Aid Station is, I would probably say, like about 1,200 feet to your final summit of Hope Pass. but then hope passed, then you have to descend into windfield, which is your 50 mile mark. But you know once you get to the summit that it's all downhill,

so the expectation is like, okay, we're going to let the legs fly, and this is going to be like a great time. What's not factored in is the technicality of the trail going down to windfield. You have huge rocks. You have, it's not like smooth, single track trail like we have here, Lady Bird Lake. You're getting these big boulders that are strung about throughout the entire trail. And then you get into wind field, 50 miles. I just remember climbing a

hope past that first time thinking how beautiful it was. Yeah. Because like you said, you're going up this mountain. There's tree coverage a whole way through. It is very green. And you have this river or stream next to you on your right that is going downstream. It's going down the mountain and it's rushing and you can see it and you can hear it. And as much as that climb sucks and as painful as it is, you're in my opinion in the most beautiful part of the race. And then when you summit Ho Pass, you're overlooking in this valley. I remember someone pulling me aside and like, dude, there's a bear over there. It's like, holy crap. This is absolutely incredible. And, you know, going up Hopass was still low because you're thinking,

I got to climb up this, go down, climb up, go down. But then you summit and you're filled with this high. Yeah. And there's llamas up there and they're serving noodles and food and energy's high. And then you descend, you go into, you know, you reach your 50 mile mark. when you reached halfway, 50 miles in, how did you feel overall? I felt honestly really good at that point. I think we were right around like 12 hours reaching the 50 mile mark, which was pretty good for Leadville with the amount of elevation gain. I definitely had already experienced a 50 mile race at that point.

I utilized a 50 mile race and a 50K race as a training race for Leadville 100. But 50 miles, you know, being a halfway point was something. I had never experienced before. So I tried to kind of go with the flow of how I was feeling at all times. I never made myself feel bad for being happy or feeling good at certain points. I never made myself feel bad for like being in a low. I tried to kind of just go with the emotions. But honestly, like at 50 miles, I felt really good. And I was still really excited to be there and really excited to race. And I agree with you. I think some of the most beautiful things in life are found through the hardest things in life. And Leadville emulates that in the most gorgeous way and

the hardest way at the same time. But I think we're rewarded for doing hard things. And I think Hope Pass is like such a great example of doing that. But yeah, 50 miles, I started to feel a little bit of the heat playing a role. And we say heat in comparison to here, it's definitely not as hot. But with altitude, it intensifies the sun's rays and intensifies the way it feels on your body. But yeah, at 50 mile mark, I felt honestly just like really grateful to be there. And that kind of plays a role in my entire race of just like having an extreme amount of gratitude for just being able to move my body. But specifically, yeah, making it to the halfway point. It's where a lot of people also choose to not continue is that wind field check in.

Yeah, one of the things that ultra running, ultra races have taught me, that's very applicable to I believe life is a whole. that there's all these highs and lows. And in the beginning, I would reach these highs when I first started doing these hard physical challenges, ultras, iron mans, even just big runs, you get this high and be followed by a low. At some point, and you're thinking, why'd that high go away? And eventually, the more experience you get,

you learn and realize that you're going to experience these highs, and it's not going to last forever and there's going to be a low afterwards and when you're in the low, it's not going to last forever, there's going to be a high again. So it's these ebbs and flows of highs and lows and lows. And I think back to when I was 24 years old,

it was right before I went to Ranger School. My grandma called me and she said, Nick, just remember, this two shall pass. And I now have applied that to many parts of my life where more importantly when you're in a low and things just suck and they hurt you know that it will end at some point it's not going to last forever this two shall pass so allow yourself to really feel the effects of that low knowing you're going to dig out of it at some point and a high is going to follow but you experience that in these races so often highs and lows highs and lows

highs and lows. It's an emotional roller coaster. So it was 50 miles in. Was that a high for you? Yeah, it was a high for me for sure. And then was there a low quickly following that? Yeah, the second summit of Hope Pass for sure. And I'm sure you experience this as well, but the second summit is steeper than the first summit. So we kind of had a gradual incline. It was still very steep going up Hope Pass the first time. But the second time is much shorter, but much steeper in more technical terrain. So at one point, I looked up at where we were going, which I was told not to do because you don't necessarily want to always kind of look at how far or left or how much more time you have to go or how much, I guess, distance-wise, you have left. But I looked up and I was

like, oh, my gosh, like it's so steep and it's only continuing from here. But I don't, that low didn't really last a long time. I think I have the ability to in low's kind of focus. I don't know how else to explain it, but instead of feeling bad for myself or like, oh, wow, this really sucks, I kind of channel that into like just zoning in to whatever I'm doing. So just continuing to put one foot in front of the other and an only thinking about that and breaking it down into these like digestible chunks of like what my job is at that individual time, not thinking about all the other factors going on of like, oh, we have approximately, you know, 800 more feet to climb. And like that.

might take me, you know, all these like different factors, I just kind of forget about that in these races and just focus on like my job right now is to get myself from this spot to the next and then that becomes digestible for me and allows me to focus better than if I was to think about like, oh, we're 50 miles in. We have 50 miles to go. And I found that to be really useful in ultra specifically because if you think about you're running 100 miles and every single mile you're counting down, like how horrible of a mindset that could be for you. because it is like it's such a long race. And so much can happen within 100 miles that if you're only banking on like, you know,

you know, one mile to the next mile and getting to 100 that way and counting down, you're just going to have a horrible time. So instead kind of channeling that energy into like this extreme focus, I think is what I tend to do. And it doesn't mean that I don't have lows. I think they just might look differently for me than maybe for other individuals. I mean, I've been there where I've been in a race and I'm just thinking about the finish line. And one of the things that Sally McRae told me once that just really put it into perspective, it was to be patient in your weakness.

So what I found in these races, but is also just so directly applicable to life, is that when we're just focusing on getting to the finish line, we end up underappreciating and really disrespecting the process of where we're at right now. And sometimes where you're at right now, it might be a low. And that's why you're looking to the finish line so much. But that low is a weakness and we should be patient in that weakness because there's an opportunity to learn and grow right there. You never grow from crossing the finish line. And we don't keep signing up for these races to cross the finish line.

we keep signing up for these races for the process of being in the suck because that's where we grow, develop, evolve, get better. So we keep signing up for these things because we want the hard. But it's so easy that when you're in the hard, you just want to be easy. So it's tough. But learning how to truly be patient in that weakness, I believe, is such a hard thing to do, but it is transformative. I love that. That's awesome. I think too that that makes you acknowledge your weaknesses as well. And I think that's something that I think you can't ignore in Ultra because they're so long and they expose every weakness that you might have. You have an honest conversation with yourself.

You do. 100%. So when you came back down Hope Pass, coming back into Twin Lakes, that's a nice downhill segment that you can move pretty quickly. Were you running that? I was, yeah. And it was very, yeah. And it was very, really funny, actually. I passed quite a few people on that downhill section, and people are like, I wish I had downhill legs like that. And I literally yelled to them, lift some weights. There you go. That's the key. I think that's actually where training like an athlete and lifting really does play a huge factor is those downhill sections. Just because you have more stability

in your legs, you've trained how it feels like to have fatigue in your quads. And it really does help you on the downhills. Of course, in the uphills as well. But yeah, that was kind of a funny. moment. But yeah, I was able to kind of like fly in that moment. It felt really good, specifically after like 55 miles. Yeah. I think it's something that a lot of people don't think about or realize is downhill training. Where everyone thinks, oh, you're going downhill, it's going to be easy.

But they're pounding on your quads when you're running downhill for extended periods of time. That's how a lot of people blow up. And if you don't have strong legs, you don't train downhill running, you get to the bottom of a mountain after pounding your quads, a lot of people can't recover from that, and your legs are just done for the day. Totally. But I bombed that hill.

There was this guy that joined me when I summoned a hope past the second time. He did, dude just hold on to me. I run these mountains all the time. We'll just bomb it downhill. And he was sprinting, and I was 10 feet behind him, and we were just cooking. So by the time we came into Twin Lakes the second time, I was riding this. this epic high because I just got done with this huge effort and you know you have 38 miles left and you're on the back half. So how did you feel coming to Twin Lakes at second time?

Yeah, it was a huge, I mean, it felt like a huge accomplishment. Totally agree with you. I think that could be a huge high for some people. Even though you think about 62 miles, it's easy to be like, I would be so, like, feel so low at that time. But just after having the accomplishment of getting to Twin Lakes too, I think that. brings some highs in itself. But my crew when I came in to Twin Lakes 2 was screaming and yelling, and I think that's really what, like, invigorated me was, like, not only this, like, an incredible accomplishment of getting two Twin Lakes 2, but it was my crew just, like, hyping me up. So that definitely was a high for me. And I kept thinking, like, every time I came

into these aid stations, like, how important it is to surround yourself with incredible people, because they will be a make or break specifically in an, in an, ultra. And my crew is awesome and like constantly had my back and hyping me up. And yeah, that was really, really special. And that specific section of Twin Lakes too when you're coming down that hill and it's kind of steep to finally get into the aid station area, I've seen so many videos over the years of that being a heartbreak section for people. And I think I had replayed that section in my mind so much because that was where I would know whether not, essentially, I was going to finish or not. Because that's where a huge percentage of people

fall off. A lot of people fall off still within like the first, even 24 miles. I think 150 people out of race, DNF before 24 miles. But Twin Lakes 2 is a huge one. So I've seen the heartbreak that happens in that one last hill into Twin Lakes too that I think I kind of almost like psyched myself out. that like I can't be that, I can't have that be my heartbreak. That kind of getting through that and well, well before cutoff time felt incredible. And like a huge weight was lifted off of my shoulders. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I know what you're talking about. So what would you say in all of Leadville was the lowest of the low? Hmm. I would say lowest of the low. probably around like mile 92. At that point, I think I was underfueled and it just happens. Also my first 100 miler.

And I think just I was underfueled at that point. And I think that was a huge low for me. After Miles 62, so at Twin Lakes 2, we tried to pop some blisters of mine that had happened on my heels. So I didn't pre-tape them. And that kind of sent me into the night with some. like an adequate amount of pain. That wasn't necessarily like a low for me, but it was something that I just, I told myself, like, I'm just going to have to grasp this.

And this is just going to suck for the rest of race. And that's just how it's going to be. But I can do with pain. It was more so at mile 92, the frustration of where I was at, because I felt, I felt like I had more juice left mentally, but my body wasn't cooperating with what I wanted it to do. So even in sections where I thought, like at that point, I'd be able to like run at a pretty good pace. I just didn't have it in my body. And I don't know if it was 100% what I would consider like bonking. But it was, it was definitely something similar to it. But when our bodies are so

capable and we know how capable of our bodies are, specifically like sending it for a 100-mile race and we get to like a mile 92, we think that we're going to be like, oh, this is the last stretch. But at that point, every mile feels like 15 miles. Yes. Like it feels like every individual mile feels like 15 miles. So yeah, mile 92 was a pretty rough section. I would say that was probably my lowest. Low physically, yes, but mentally as well. And it's because of the frustration that your body couldn't do.

Yeah. Was it also like did you have any doubt that you were going to get to the finish line at that point? You know what? People have asked me this. I never once have doubted myself in Ledwell. Like I came into that race knowing that I was going to finish. And every single moment throughout the race, I knew I was going to finish.

I was definitely very nervous about the cutoffs at every single moment of the race because of the stringent 30-hour cutoffs and the cutoffs at each individual aid station. It's just known to be a race where a lot of people end up getting, end up DNFing, not because of their effort or their choice,

but because of time cutoffs. so anything can happen. And I think I just never allowed myself to relax in that, just knowing that there was always a next cutoff that was going to be tough to accomplish. So no, I never doubted myself. It was more so of just, yeah, once again, like that extreme amount of frustration that I wasn't able to perform the way that I, I guess, wanted myself to be able to perform at that moment.

And, yeah, just the cooperation of my body at that point. Yeah. I know what happens is so many people deeper underwere. races is that they start feeling sorry for themselves. And you can see it in their eyes when they start feeling sorry for themselves. Yeah. And then they start searching for reasons why to quit, why to stop. They'll go into the aid stations, the checkpoints. They want the medics to pull them out. Oh, yeah. And once you give up on yourself, it's over. It's done. Like once you start doubting yourself, that doubt has been injected into your veins and now it's coursing throughout your body.

I always say that doubt is only dangerous when you start doubting yourself. Everyone else can start doubting you. Every single other person can doubt you. But if you don't believe that, it does not matter one bit. But as soon as that doubt transfers from one person to you, that's when it's dangerous. Yeah, I agree with that. So your mission is unbreakable. What does that mean to you?

What does it mean to be unbreakable? To me, being unbreakable means to be a warrior in life and not being a victim to your circumstances and truly taking each day and living each day as if it's your last. And I think being unbreakable is like even just the word itself, to be broken means to be like broken to a million pieces and not being able to be put back together. But being unbreakable is taking each challenge that tries to break you or tries to challenge you or obstacles that are thrown your way and choosing to take that as a challenge in your life and as a lesson in your life. So to be unbreakable means to continue life as a warrior and

to not succumb to your circumstances. What I love about that mission is that it is a personal choice. You get to choose to be unbreakable. No one else can say like, oh, you are breakable, you are unbreakable. No, I'm, I'm unbreakable. It's a choice. I was listening to an Alex from Osey podcast this past weekend on one of my long runs. And he was talking about cancel culture, which got very popular a few years ago, as you probably remember. Everyone's getting canceled.

And the one thing he was talking about with cancel culture is, like, people who are getting canceled or were getting canceled or were getting canceled, for things they never did, things they never said. So everyone was afraid they were going to get canceled because it was just being thrown around like crazy. He's like, you can't get canceled. One, if you didn't do the thing and you don't believe it, and you don't believe that you are canceled. The people who end up being canceled are the ones who, even if they did nothing wrong, they apologize, they accept it, they invited in, they acknowledge it. but if people are trying to cancel you and you don't acknowledge it or accept it or believe it

and you stay true to yourself, then it's just people talking. Same with unbreakable. Like you are not breakable unless you believe you are. If you believe you're breakable, you're going to break. You're brittle. But it's a choice. And that's what I love about it is a choice. You are choosing.

You are telling yourself you are unambor. breakable. It's a powerful mission. Thank you. I appreciate it. Where did that mission come from? Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, I think in general my mission came from a multitude of different things. But the main journey, I guess, that I've been on over the past like five or so years was that my initial diagnosis for cancer was a breakable diagnosis.

It was actually while I was in the military, while I was serving active duty army, I was told by a doctor that I had cancer that was going to kill me. He said, actually, word for word, this will lead to your demise. And not only that was, not only did I have cancer that was going to kill me was the diagnosis, but I also had surgeries that were going to make it so that I would never be able to run or hike again, is what I was told. And when I was initially diagnosed, I was, I mean,

very deep into my military career. I worked my entire career in the Special Forces community. I served at J-Soc, started at first group, and went to airborne school. I did all these things. Always was distinguished honor grad. Like, always tried my best in everything that I was doing and always tried to perform the best that I possibly could. So fitness is a huge part of my life at that point. And the reason why I achieved the things that I did in the military was because of my physical ability. And I think that obviously like my intelligent community as well, intelligence community as well, like the reason why I did good in school was because of effort. But those two combined were why I got to the point that I had gotten to.

So when I had heard that diagnosis and heard that I would never run or hike again, at first, I mean immediately it was doubt. It was I am not going to accept that as my life and as my diagnosis. So at that point, I did everything that I could to maintain my fitness, you know, being non-weight bearing for six months and then going through, you know, ending up actually having a secondary cancer and going through 16 months of chemo. And I just learned how much in life is going to be thrown at you that causes you to think that you might be breakable or that causes you to feel as though your life might be ending

and you could be a victim to those experiences. But in everything that I was fed, I found that there was so much to learn and so much goodness that came from these challenges. And every time that I sat down with a quote unquote negative thing that was happening in my life, I learned so much about myself and learned so much about life and other people and how beautiful life truly is. And my cancer, in my opinion, caused me to live in a way that was so much more living, like authentic to who I was.

And even up into this point, like I feel like I'm actually living my life out. And cancer, I say this in people might cringe a little bit, but I feel as though that cancer has saved my life. And when I say that, I mean, not necessarily like my physical body life, but like my intentional and like super vibrant, authentic life. And I just feel like unbreakable was a way that I kind of convinced myself mantra-wise every time that I was challenged by something was just this one word that I could think about when when things got tough of like, no, you're unbreakable.

Like all these things have come your way. And even in the military, like we experienced so many things that are really challenging. And I already, you know, dealt with that or dealt with stuff in childhood. And it was just kind of this one word that I could just continuously go back to. So that's kind of what unbreakable, how unbreakable was built in me, in my own journey. And it was really special when I started sharing because I realized that this went way beyond me and that I could impact others and allow other people to also understand that there is so much light within darkness. It's just up to you. Once again, that accountability frame.

There's so much light within darkness, but it's up to you to find that light. Yeah, and choose to be unbreakable. Did that diagnosis at first almost break you? Or did it break you? No. I feel like I was in denial, I guess. And my husband can attest to this as well. Like I just kept doing what I was doing without any break in that.

I went on like a mission with a boot on and on crutches. Like I feel like I just continued with my life because it was almost like a coping mechanism to do. with the results. And I just, I kind of was like, I'm just not going to deal with it because if I just don't even like mentally accept the fact that that is my fate, then I just, I won't ever, it'll just go away, I guess. So I guess maybe in that way, that's a mental break of like not actually being able to deal with your problems or deal with what's reality and not accept reality.

But no, I never once, I guess, like fell into like a deep, dark moment feeling as though my life was over. But I don't know which one's healthier. but that's kind of how I dealt with it, I guess, at first. There's a lot I want to unpack there. Yeah. First question. You said cancer saved your life or changed your life.

What was your mindset like or how did you approach life before cancer diagnosis as opposed to post-cancer? And like what did saving your life look like? What does that mean? Yeah. I feel as though, before my cancer diagnosis, I was kind of always living life for others or how I felt other people viewed me, I guess. I grew up Japanese, and I think that played a huge role as well. If you're unfamiliar with Japanese culture, there's a lot of standards that are pushed on children when they grow up in Japanese household of how they should exactly be living their life. And not because of like, that's good for the child, but it's almost the pride of the family or the pride of the parent.

So I think like even from elementary school to middle school to high school and then into college, I was living life for this constant, almost like approval of those around me. So not only my parents, but my teachers and my coaches. And I never once asked myself like what I actually wanted in this life and what I found to be important in this life. And I think it's just because I'd never been asked that, you know, even as a kid, like, what do you want to be or what do you want to do? It was always like these are the out. Like this is the exact path that you need to follow in. Like if you go even a little bit outside of that, like you will not be accepted. So I think like that to me doesn't feel like truly living. That doesn't feel like you're embodying like your personality and your authentic self and doing things how I would describe as like your ikigai or your like actual like purpose in this life. And then I joined the military. And I feel like that was like almost I actually describe this in a funny way. I think the military is very easy if you grew up in a Japanese household.

It's almost like the same. Like the discipline amount, the, I guess, the unkind, I guess, treatment. It's very similar. So I felt really comfortable in the military because it's the same thing. Like your path is exactly laid out the way that it should be, I guess. And you can't really go out of the bounds of that. So yeah, I felt as though like I was in this constant state of like trying to fill my time with all these things that I felt to be quote unquote productive.

And what I felt like was was being a good person and in like an accomplishment mindset. Not necessarily like really focused on like how the world is better if I'm in it. If I think about it that way or how I'm bettering the lives of the people around me or what impact I might leave on this world. It was just like these are the steps I need to fulfill and I'm like a robot operating. the world. So I felt like just, yeah, constant life before cancer was in, I can only view it as like,

almost like a revolving, not a revolving door, but like a conveyor belt. Convary belt. Like your life is on a conveyor belt. You are not the one in charge of that conveyor belt. It just continues to go forward the way that it's supposed to. And I just felt like just,

I was a product placed on that conveyor belt. But when I was diagnosed with cancer and went through my chemo, it was the first time in my life that I had asked myself, like, how I was feeling about life or how I feel like I was leaving the world. Because I think when you're challenged with the idea that you might not be here tomorrow and that every day is like a gamble of whether or not you're going to actually be able to live it, you start living each individual life as if it is your last. So you start, you know, deciding not to be inauthentic to who you are. You decide to not actually like take all these opinions about others around you and you start really, truly living like vibrantly as yourself. And I think like each individual person is so beautiful and so special in their own way. But we are so like influenced by the thoughts and the opinions of people around us that we conform

to be on this conveyor belt that if we jump off of it, like we're not going to be in this like grand process of what the world needs from us. But I just think we're so individually special and beautiful that it might even just take someone a cancer diagnosis or something tough in their life to remind themselves that every day is so special and it needs to be really treated with intention and integrity and authenticity and to be living vibrantly. And I really, really learned that for my cancer diagnosis. So that's powerful. It's very powerful. Thank you. I believe the the mind is a very powerful tool. And say

there's this cohort of people, say it's 100 people. And 50% of the people respond to a diagnosis like you did. Almost in denial, unbreakable,

going to keep living, going to further your living. But then the other 50% of those people see that as their demise, like the doctor told you. This will, lead to your demise.

I would assume and believe I've never had cancer, so I can't necessarily relate, but I would assume that the predictability and outcomes of the 50% of the people who approach it like you, in denial, going to fight, unbreakable, this is not going to determine my destiny, are going to have a much greater success rate in fighting chance than the ones who break from the diagnosis, did you experience something similar to that with other people who were diagnosed around the same time as you or other cancer patients and survivors that you've met and connected with over time? How powerful is the mind with a physical diagnosis? I think the power of the mind is so underrated in cancer. And I almost think it should be part of

treatment is learning how to strengthen the mind and the body at the same time. I think the process of the way that cancer is treated is more harmful than good oftentimes. Because I think oftentimes even just if I would have accepted the diagnosis and the words that the doctor had originally given me and just accepted that as my fate, I don't know that I would have even had the opportunity to really fight back. But the power of the mind is incredible. And the cancer patients that I've met that, you know, are a little bit younger that have decided to take their fate into their own hands are, we connect on a such a different

level. Like, it's actually amazing and so beautiful and so tough at the same time. But there's always a similarity in these experiences are the choice, once again, yeah, to fight back to acknowledge the fact that you have ownership of what you do with your life and that you don't have to succumb to this diagnosis. And I do think, and I want to be careful with my words because I don't want to say those who don't make it. It was a choice to not make it because I think there's experiences that are unique to each individual. But I do think the way that cancer is treated and being in the hospital and going through chemo and, you know, many, many months.

You know, my experience was like 16 months of chemo. that in itself, like putting someone through the ringer for that long, I think breaks you down, almost like an interrogation. If you sit in an interrogation chair for long enough, like, it's going to break you. And I think that's a tough thing for a lot of people is being able to continuously be met with these battles and choosing to fight back because it is a choice every single day. And that's what gets really heavy and hard for people is you don't just like forget about it for a week. Like, it's literally every single day that you are living that you have to make the

choice to fight back. And that's really heavy and really hard for a lot of people. So once again, yeah, I don't want to be like, I don't want to say that those who succumb or those who did not make it were, like, succumb or were victims of their experience. But the survivors that I know, it's really, really powerful. And there's such a great alignment with endurance sports and cancer. I actually. met a gal her name is junco at leadville and she's 65 years old japanese woman we have some experience together but she started ultra running because she dealt with cancer we were both on the ladies of leadville panel and i've this is not the first person that i had met that we have similar stories and i

there has to be some sort of alignment because of this experience of like we had fought for our life for something that now we want to continue to like fight to to to live in a certain way or to go through hard things together and to make a bigger impact on the world. But yeah, I think the power, I mean, even we were talking about placebo out in the other room too. And I think placebo is so powerful. And even if you just tell yourself continuously every single morning that you wake up, like I am unbreakable. I am strong enough to handle whatever comes my way. And I'm so grateful for the opportunity to live today. That in itself can change your life. Yeah. I agree. My mom passed away from cancer in 2019.

And she had a very aggressive stage four ovarian cancer. She diagnosed in January. It passed away in June. And I watched her so, she tried so hard to keep a positive mindset and stay optimistic throughout. But I also saw the chemo breaking her down and the cancer breaking her down. and she would wake up and she won a fight and she did fight. But at the same time, physically, she just, she was drained.

So one of the things I remember we were doing for her is we were making her these smoothies. They were like these superfood, nutrient dense packed smoothies with all these things. And at that point, the cancer was so aggressive. We knew that those smoothies were not going to save mom's life. but the hope was in some sort of sense of a placebo, her recognizing this nutrition, this fuel going into her body. Like, mom, this is going to make you feel so much better. This is going to get you to the other side.

Like, this is going to help. And our goal with that was just bringing some sort of positivity, some sort of optimism. It's also one of those things that it's really hard to go through by yourself. And you need just like an ultra, you need a crew, you need a team. They need to bring the energy. They need to be aware. They need to support you.

through the highs and lows, the journey of which that event is. But yeah, I saw it with my mom where she fought hard. But it was just, it was bringing her down so much that it was challenging. Yeah. But that was hard to witness and get through with my mom. How long did she do her chemo? So she was diagnosed in January, like I said, I think she did chemo first.

Didn't do anything. So then she got surgery. Okay. They went in and they removed as much of the cancer as they could. They removed like 95% of it. But they said when they opened her up, it was all over the place. And then within a few weeks, it all grew back. So then she ended up going to the ICU because she was sick.

And then once she went to the ICU, this was in May, like late May. She never came out until we went home on hospice. So it was just so aggressive. Yeah. It was so aggressive. And she had all these signs for months leading up to. Okay. But none of the doctors could figure it out.

Yeah. They were going to and from, two and from. And I know you had a similar journey in a sense of, like, you went to a doctor a year before being actually diagnosed and the doctor turned you away saying, oh, this is nothing, just go home. Yeah. So that's scary.

Yeah. This could be building and growing for a long time before it's actually diagnosed. 100%. Yeah, that's definitely my recommendation for everyone is just, you know, get ahead of things before they become an actual problem. But I think like I,

and we've talked about it before with me and my husband, like chemo in itself is literally, meant to kill your body. And I think sometimes chemo almost kills you faster than the cancer would kill you. And I think actually like educating our oncologist to actually educate the patients on like this is an active choice that you're making to put poison into your body. And not just the poison that like, you know, we think, I mean, we have poison our food and all that, that as well. But like, an actual poison. Chemo actually originally was, came out as like an AIDS drug, but they decided not to use it as an age drug because it was killing the patients. And now we're using that for cancer

treatment. So when we choose to go the chemo route as, you know, adult individuals, we need to be asking the questions. And I agree with choosing to be like compliant to whatever doctors are telling you is not always the best decision. And we can fight back in other ways and we can be unbreakable in other ways. And my chemo is actually what gave me my secondary cancer. What was the secondary cancer? I had ocular cancer. So a cancer of my eye. And it was a side effect.

And I also had a, it's called lichen planus where I had huge open sores all over my body. That was untreated for seven months because the oncology team in this experimental drug decided to not, they said basically that this is unrelated to your cancer treatment. And I was like, how is this? this only happened, you know, when I started my chemo. And it's the same thing with my secondary cancer. So I saw a lot of negligence in even just cancer, quote, unquote, research of these drugs of like, oh, we're guinea pigs. We're being tested on.

And of course, I knew that, but it was, I was given a choice of, like, you get surgery and then you either do chemo or you die. And that's how it was approached to me. And even with a chemo, you still might die. But it was, this is a better option for you than just going. at it. And I asked my oncologist, is there anything else that I can do to help myself through this process, either through chemo, to help me feel better through chemo, or to help me be more successful in fighting cancer? And he literally told me no, like not even drinking

more water. That's crazy. Not even taking vitamin D. Like nothing, zero. And I, that was a huge wake-up call for myself of like, we need to be asking more questions. Like, we need to be critically thinking more. And when we're in a, we're as a patient in an oncology room, it feels as though there's like this complex, this authority complex figure of this person knows a lot more than me in this realm. But at the end of the day, like you don't, no one cares about your body in your life more than you do. And in order for you to find success in that, like ask the right questions and don't be afraid. And if you feel as though you don't feel empowered, like have someone else in there, in the room with you who feels empowered to ask those questions.

But I do feel like I hear that quite often from people who are diagnosed in going through the cancer treatment plan where they had this realization of, okay, no one's looking out for me. I need to look out for myself. I don't know how we fix that or what that looks like. But to go back to provide some more context, the first time you were diagnosed with cancer, what was that diagnosis? What kind of cancer? Stage three melanoma. Okay. Yeah.

And that is skin cancer? Yes. And this specific type of skin cancer is the same skin cancer that Bob Marley died from. So it's genetic mutation. So it is skin cancer, but it's unrelated. I would have gotten it whether I was in the sun or not. And it's found generally this type of mutation on the feet or the hands. And it's super aggressive.

So within the year of me finding it, I don't know how many, you know, if it was would have helped me a lot more at that point. But generally, this type of melanoma is incredibly aggressive if you do not get it removed right away. So it traveled into my lymphatic system from my foot. So that's why I was given the diagnosis of I would never run or hike again. I had, I ended up being like, I think, around 100 stitches in my foot after surgery on my foot initially. And then they removed cancer in my groin as well. So it traveled from my foot into my groin through my lymphatic system. And then once it's in the lymphatic system,

it's scary because now it's just flowing throughout your body. So you have no idea where it will land next. For me, it was a really big concern that I would end up in my lungs and my brain because those are the biggest potential for, I mean, once you get to stage four, it's almost as if you might have a few more months to live.

So it's just an incredibly aggressive type of cancer. So you were active duty military, Army when you got diagnosed. How did that change your career in the military? What did that look like? Yeah, it was completely changed my career. It ended my career, actually. I was released from the military because of my diagnosis and my surgeries.

I honestly had planned to be in for 20 years. I loved being in the military. I loved my experience. My experience was very unique. I don't think many people have the same experience just due to the projection, I guess, of my career. Being able to work in the SF community is incredible and very special and once again, very unique to my experience.

But it changed my career in so many ways because for one, it was almost this like huge newsflash of like, hey, the Army doesn't care about you as much as you care about the Army. Like all this time, energy, your life that you've now committed to this, we don't really care about it anymore. And I think it really, that honestly hurt me more than even. having to be discharged from the military was like this thing that I've committed my life to, they don't support me when I'm sick. And that was just, yeah, a really big wake up call for me and was pretty painful as a,

as someone who's just decided to serve their country and found a lot of pride in that. And I think it's not uncommon that this happens, specifically with things like cancer, where you go from having like a very supportive community, especially in like the smaller teams of like this is my family essentially and they're supposed to be supporting me and now all of a sudden like I'm on my own type of thing. That's tough. Super tough. Cancer in itself is incredibly isolating because no one really knows what you've gone through unless

you've gone through it yourself. And unfortunately with cancer, like a lot of people who've gone through are no longer with us. So it was such an isolating experience to be removed at the same time from my life because of COVID lockdowns, but then also because I was going through cancer and then now was removed for my community of being in the military, and specifically in SF. How soon after being diagnosed did you find out you were going to be released from the military? So it was a while because I went through my initial surgery. So it was probably two years.

But at that point, it was like it was uncertain of whether or not I would be able to stay in. But I had all these plans, like Sartre major wanted to send me to Ranger School. And, you know, you start actually career planning when you're in the military specifically when you know that you want to stay in. You start thinking about all these things that you want to do. And yeah, it was insane. It was from one day to the next, it was like, oh, I found out that I'm going to have my life changed forever. But if I'm going to be honest, everything happens for a reason. My life is really beautiful now.

So I wouldn't change anything for the world. I definitely wouldn't take my military service back if I was to redo it. But yeah, it was definitely a really challenging time to have that removed. What did that look like in terms of mentally accepting that and then planning for the future? One of my favorite books is called From Strength to Strength by Arthur Brooks. And it talks all about, I talk about this book frequently because it was very powerful for me when I read it. It talks all about life transitions. And a lot of times in life, we think that.

these life transitions we experience, we think they're actually a midlife or quarter life crisis. But the reality is every 12 to 18 months, we naturally go through some sort of life transition. Graduate college, leave the military, get married, have kids, someone passes away, you get fired, you get hired. All these things, we're constantly experiencing his life transitions. and while we think they might be a crisis, it's just this natural evolution of life. So I'm curious because there's a lot of people who go through these life transitions

and they allow it to break them instead of being unbreakable. What was the thought process around, okay, this career that I thought I was about to have is over. Now, how do I plan where I go next? What did you deal? Yeah, it was kind of like a null time period, right?

I think a lot of people experience this when they leave the military as well, especially if you didn't plan for it, is this like null period of like, where's my purpose? What am I? Like, who is Amanda? And what is the, what is the future even going to hold? I have this like career path that I guess I could go, but it would just be going essentially back to the military as a contractor. So I did look at that originally. but I decided actually to, so random, saying it out loud, but I actually became a rep for spine and neurosurgery. So I then, like immediately within like a couple months of, of leaving the military,

I worked in the operating room and I worked in spine and neurosurgery. So random, but I'm, I'm so interested in the brain. I think the brain is so powerful and so beautiful. And it's, I think maybe related to my cancer journey of like how special. it is that we have the opportunity to look into our brain and learn more about our own brains and have the cognitive ability to be retrospective, to be introspective, to, it's just really cool. So I worked in spine and neurosurgery and I quickly found that that wasn't going to give me the purpose that I felt as though I needed. And I thought that that might be like give me that same feeling that the military would give me of like having a great impact on those around me

and on the world. What I did specifically in the military had a huge impact on what was going on a daily basis. So I felt like I really needed to fill that same purpose or that meaning in life with something really meaningful

and challenging at the same time. But I quickly found that I didn't like working in the medical field. And yeah, so actually about a year ago on the dot, I decided to no longer work in neurosurgery and spine surgery. But that was my job.

Amazing. Yeah. It transitions hard. It's so hard. Trying to find what to do next and what you're going to be passionate about, what you're going to love, and actually finding something you're going to love and not just doing it to make money and to show up.

But it's courageous to take a step back. And I like to refer to it as sharpening your axe, as Erwin McManus talks about. We get through these lulls. in life. And it's so easy to need to and want to jump to the next thing right away because we don't want to sit in the lull. But that lull sometimes is sharpening our axe.

So when we go back out to battle, you're not showing up with a dull axe. You're showing up with a sharp axe. Well, I appreciate you sharing that story. Of course. And everything that you went through. I said in the beginning of this podcast, I want to come back to your Leadville 100 prep. because from the outside looking in, you did everything right.

You absolutely crushed it. I know you were coming off of an Ironman World Championship prior to finding out that you were going to run Leadville. And then just what I've seen in high level, correcting if I'm wrong,

started training in January. Leadville's in August. And it was kind of just like, unstructured training, increasing running mileage. And then I believe it was in April that you became more structured with your training. And you started tracking running volume and increasing volume. And then you did something very strategic, which I thought was really smart, where it didn't really focus on mileage anymore,

but you focused on elevation gain as well as time on feet. And then you did two races leading up to. two, and then you went out to Leadville and crushed. Is that pretty accurately describe your prep? Yeah, pretty much. There's like the perfect, like, ingredients for such a good prep that I wish I would have done myself for Leadville. How did you come into conclusion of putting all that together?

Like, what was the thought process? Yeah, I'm such a nerd when it comes to training. And I, I mean, there's so much information out there for specifically Ultras. And Ultra is so new that there's no, like, perfect ingredient. for each individual person. I will say, like, I don't think I perfected it, and I am really interested to see kind of how I do my next 100. But with Level specifically, like training elevation is really important.

Actually going to elevation is really important. That's smart. So we live at 4,500. Our mountains around our area get up to right around like 11 to 12. So I had great access. And I'll 100% give that to Utah 100%. We have such great access to the trails and to mountains that I really took a advantage of that in my training. There's a mountain that I climbed that's around 4,500 feet of climbing,

and it gets up to 11,400 feet. And I did that at 1.3 times throughout the week. And it was just kind of like my regular training mountain because it was so accessible for me. And those mountains are not necessarily accessible in like the January to April time frame, not really even in May because we have so much snow. So that was another factor that was so funny and interesting to have to train through was if I go to the trails in January, I'm trudging through like feet of snow. And we're not doing much running in that type of environment. But just kind of getting as much as I needed. And for me, the balance of structure training with a little bit of flexibility is where I find, like, my sweet spot. If I sit kind of like Iron Man training, if I sit in structured training for nine months at a time,

I'm going to lose a little bit of that love that I have for training. Yeah, I'm the same way. It can be a little bit too much to where it's like, okay, now this is prescriptive. And I kind of lost that with Iron Man. But with mountains and running, like I know myself and I know my body more than anyone else potentially could. But yeah, the elevation gain factors very specific to ultras and was very specific to Leadville itself. So when people run 100 mile weeks, they might live here. And it might be really beneficial for them going into Leadville.

But because I had access to the mountains, if you've ever run in the mountains, you know that five miles on the road feels much different than five miles going uphill and specifically gaining elevation gain at elevation. So kind of all these factors really played in, I think, to a really beautiful prep. And I never really felt burnt out, which I think was a win in itself of like I still love running and I still loved running every single day up until racing level 100. And I wanted to get back to it as soon as I finished. So I think that's a key ingredient.

And that's how you know that you did, you did well in the balance of. prep. Not necessarily that life was necessarily balanced, but I think the balance of training within the prep was executed very well. What would you say your peak weekly mileage got to in that prep? So 70, I think it was 77 was my peak mileage. But my elevation gain that that week was something like 19,000. So it was definitely more focused on the elevation game than it was mileage. I really only did the 50-mile or that was the longest that I had ran for Leadville 100 in that race. Yeah, if I ever did a mountain race again, I would definitely go train in the mountains for extended period of time. You know, I trained here in Texas for Leadville, got like a zero elevation gain.

And I felt it when I went on to Leadville crushed me. Everything after, like after I got back from. Twin Lakes or from Hope Bass in a Twin Lakes the second time, I could not breathe for those last 38 miles. I was wheezing because I just like I was not used to that high of elevation or just a variation in elevation for that long. Yeah, we think about when we look at paces like coming from road like a half marathon or a marathon pace, you can look at these 100 mile paces.

You're like, what? You know, this is a speed that you went. That's so slow. But if you think about it over a mountain scape, there's times where you can't, I mean, there's no one who runs an eight minute mile up these grades, you know. And in the grand scheme of things, the fitness of these ultra athletes is so varied. You see some super jacked individuals who are going at these mountains. You see like really skinny individuals who clearly don't strength train. But there's not really like one specific body style or even specific training.

style that's going to be like 100% prescriptive to be the best. Yeah. I feel like we've kind of figured out half marathons and marathons. Like there are really great tools out there that and coaches that have kind of dialed it in. I think with the 100 mile distance, like we're still learning so much. But like that's what's so cool about it for me is like, you know, each time that I hopefully get the opportunity to do more, like I'm going to learn so much more. And what works for me might not work for another individual.

But it's just really cool. I agree with you. I feel like there is a half marathon, full marathon distance. There's some variation that you can get created with it, but it's pretty prescriptive in a sense of like, here's how running mileage increases. Here's how we're going to play with some critical velocity, some tempo work.

Here's what we're like, we're going to add some structure into your long run on the weekend. And you just play with that and you refine that. and you play with some levers of intensity, volume, consistency, you'll make progress. And you can compare one half marathon to another half marathon. You compare one marathon to another marathon. That's why you go for PRs. But with ultras, you can't compare one race to another race.

It looks so different. And the way you approached this prep, like this is a very specific prep for Leadville, that would look completely different than, say, for like a Rocky Raccoon here in Texas, which is a flat 100-mileer. And you also can't expect the same time at Rocky Raccoon as you would in Leadville. So I completely agree with you. You can't apply the same approach to every race in an Ultra because they're also unique and different. And they require different strengths to play with.

100%. Yeah. I think also like what's cool about Ultra 2 is like you're not even changing. You're not only changing like the elevating. elevation grade and the, I guess, you're not changing really the mileage, but you're also changing the total environment that you're in because there's like hovelin 100 where it's on, it's on road, and it's flat and it's hot. But then you have these races that are super cold, and now you have to plan your attire around like the influences of the environment. And it's so cool. Like,

if you're really nerdy about running, you should probably just run an ultra because you can get, There's so much that goes into it that, yeah, if you trained for Rocky Raccoon, you're probably not even going to have the adequate amount of gear that you would need to run Letvo 100. Completely different races, yeah. Totally different. And I think that's what's really cool about it. And yeah, I think coming from a road environment, that might be something that you might not even grasp

until you actually do an ultra or accrue an ultra of like how much really goes into it beyond just running. What's the saying? It's like if you want to run fast, they run a 5K, if you want to be challenged, if you want to do something hard, run a marathon. If you want to speak to God, run an ultra. Totally. Everyone should run an ultra because I think it will change your life and you will meet God firsthand at some point. 100%.

Well, Amanda, I appreciate you. again huge congrats on crushing leadville sharing your story and i i truly believe that the unbreakable mission that you live behind is so powerful because it's a choice and it's a choice that we all can make to adopt so thank you thanks for having me appreciate it