The Nick Bare Podcast - 127: How Running and Community Saved Mitch Ammons From Addiction

Episode Date: June 30, 2025

Mitch Ammons didn’t just get sober—he rebuilt his life with relentless grit. In this episode, we unpack his journey from addiction and rehab to becoming an ultra-marathoner, successful real estate agent, and living proof of what’s possible with the Go One More mindset. Mitch opens up about the lowest points in his life, the power of the 12-step program, and how fitness and community gave him purpose. This is a story of redemption, discipline, and choosing the hard path forward—every single day.CHAPTERS:01:19 Introducing Mitch Ammons05:05 The Ultra Marathon Experience15:23 The Speed Project Adventure27:34 Post-Ultra Marathon Recovery33:53 Early Signs of Addiction44:20 The Struggle with Opiate Addiction48:02 Rehab and Relapse Cycle59:09 The Turning Point in 201501:01:19 First True Attempt at the 12 Steps01:07:12 Discovering Fitness and Running01:09:42 The Journey to Becoming a Competitive Runner01:16:49 Family Support and Personal Growth01:24:09 Reflecting on the Journey and Future AspirationsCONNECT: Become a BPN member FOR FREE - Unlock 20% off FOR LIFEhttps://bpn.team/member FOLLOW:IG: instagram.com/nickbarefitness/YT: youtube.com/@nickbarefitnessKeep up with Mitch:IG: @mitchammons

Going in a sophomore year of high school, I think most weekends were drinking cocaine and some pills. I had a great time even into my first year of college, and then I didn't. And then it got really bad. It went so fast. My opiate addiction, I think like that. I was a daily user and I was a daily all-day user. I couldn't go through the night without getting sick. So in the morning, whenever I wake up, I'm dry heaving.

I'm probably vomiting. My stomach is in knots. I've got the body aches and I'm cold sweating until I can take that first hit and then I'm good. I thought this is how it was going to be forever. I truly thought I would never figure it out. So in 2015, what changed? What started the process of sobriety? I went into treatment for the sixth time.

It was my first time doing it truly, honestly, no reservation. That's the only difference is that I actually applied myself. I can't explain it. worked. It truly works. My career, sobriety, every single thing that I've kind of accomplished has been small steps in the right direction, just one more time. Just like today, the most I can do is just one step in the right direction. That's great. All right, today on the podcast, we have Mitch Amens. And Mitch, this has been a long time coming. I don't know how we haven't sat down yet up until this point in our personal relationship and professional relationship. Yeah.

So officially welcome to the show. It's funny. I think the first time I ever talked to you before your sub five mile, you had asked me about this podcast like 2019. Oh, really? Yeah. Is that the first time we ever met in person? Yeah.

So we met it. No, we had met at the track a couple times prior to your five-minute mile. Briefly. Yeah. I'll send high track. And then you paced me for my first sub-five. Sub-five minute mile. At Zoker.

And you were just cruising. I remember that. I mean, I was. I was in the pain cave and you were speaking to me casually as I was wheezing. I was yelling towards the end. Dude, I never will forget that run because I went to a dark place. And I collapsed at the end, the middle of the road. Yeah.

And we filmed all of this. You know, I'm in the middle of the road sitting down, just trying to collect my thoughts and figure out where I'm at and all these cars are driving around me and hooking. And we included that in the video And everyone gives me crap for it in the video But I was so out of it But I didn't know what was going on Yeah, no, I've been there

And I've been in the middle of traffic And just been like, I can't even, I don't have enough energy to care. You just drained it. Yeah, oh yeah. All right, so there's a lot of stuff I want to cover today. Okay.

But your lifetime PR in the marathon, two hours, 16 minutes. And one second. And one second. Correct. Your half marathon PR one hour, five minutes, 31 seconds. 104, 28.

Oh, really? When was that? That was a year ago in February, I think. 104.28? 104 28. What pace is that? It's like 453. That's incredible.

Incredible. Because your marathon PR is roughly a 511, 512? Yeah, exactly. Exactly, 5-11. Minute per mile pace? Yep. And you're a marathon runner recently turned ultra-marathoner. Yeah.

Tell me about that. I actually remember in the middle of the race, Tony was like, I think you're an ultra-runner now. And I'm like, no, no, no, I just want to be a washed-up marathoner. And he goes, isn't that what an ultra-runner is? And I was like, great point. But yeah, yeah, I did my first, I guess I did the BPN 50-miler a year ago. You want it?

I did win it. And that was really fun. That was kind of my intro. And then I went all in in this last man standing. And that was probably one of the greatest, if not the greatest experience in running that I have ever experienced. So the last man standing, BPN, Gilin War Ultra. You did 30 hours. 30 hours, 126 miles.

126 miles. Before that, the longest you ever ran, it was the 50-mileer. and before that 26.2. Right. Yeah. What is it that's drawing you away from marathons to ultras? Because in this last two years, you've done, the VPN survived the 950-miler. Then we did the speed project together, which I'd love to talk about your experience there.

Yeah. And then the Goin More Ultra, you know, 126 miles. what's the drawl and why now? I hate to say it, but the vibes. Like, it's just incredible out there. Everyone's, I don't know, it's just, in the marathon, and it doesn't seem like it'd be quick, but it's just quick.

Like, you're not out there getting to know anyone, you're not out there enjoying it, really. I mean, it's 26.2 miles of like you're on from the gun. In Ultra, there's just so many ups and downs. You're getting to know, at least in my experience, you're getting to know the people out there because you're out there a long time. And there's plenty of time. I feel like you can line up on the starting line and nothing really matters.

Like if you have a stomach ache, it doesn't matter. If you're tired, it doesn't matter because you have literally the next 24 hours to work it out. Right. Like my biggest fear in races is like stomach issues, but I'm like in an ultra, it literally doesn't matter. You can pull over to the side or you can take your break and then keep going again. I think it is and then I guess I'll get into like the challenge like obviously that's a huge part of it the marathon is for sure challenging right I'd say it's more the training that's challenging the race is kind of like the victory lap sort of because as long as you've done the training

aside from like things out of the ordinary you're going to have a good race right like the training can indicate how your race is going to go. And in an ultra, I don't think the training can indicate at all how the race is going to go because there's so many different things that can go wrong, ups and downs. You can be, I don't, obviously there's a fitness aspect to running ultras, but I don't think the fittest person is the winner, nine times out of ten. Like there's so much more that goes into it. And I have, I'd never had to push that hard in my life.

And I've pushed very, very hard in a lot of different things. but just moments in there where I couldn't even take another step and just knowing that I just have to take one more step and then one more step and then one more step and try and do the things that will bring me back, like eat and drink, and then you come back from it and then you keep going again. That's actually a really good observation.

The marathon is a very individual sport. For sure. You know, like the prep and the build and the process can be community driven. Sure. Where one of my first introductions to you and Jeff, in Bat City was Wednesday mornings in Austin, rotating every other week between the east side loop

and then Austin High Track. And the community, the environment, that for me drew me in significantly. But then the closer you get to race day and the race day itself, it is all you. Which I think has pros and cons to it, but the ultraspace is so different because it is truly this community.

like you said, vibes, and you're doing this thing collectively together. I feel like everyone out there in an ultra wants everyone to continue to go. At least my experience was like even Kim and Kendall, when I did end up dropping, Kim was like, come on, time to go, let's go. You know, like trying to get me to come back out there.

Encouraging the other person. I can't tell you how encouraging Kim and both Kendall were throughout the whole race. Like I had, Kim especially, I had moments where I was like, I would pass him or he would pass me. And I'd be like, you know, just checking in. How are you doing? And he'd be like, I'm great. And I'd be like, I can't fucking think or step or do anything.

I can hardly see because I'm so exhausted. And then he would like talk to me for a little bit and kind of just tell me like, you know, there's ups and downs and you can bounce back and like just get through this one and little things like that. And I can't tell you how encouraging and how much of a difference that made for me. Like I almost quit. I think there were three different times that I considered quills. quitting. And because of the people out there encouraging me, I didn't. And that was literally it. The only reason. I think when I did actually quit, I mean, obviously, I'll probably touch on that later. But the fact that there was nobody out there anymore, I had a lot

less motivation to get back out there. Like it was so much easier and way more fun with the collective group. It was, as miserable as it was, it was enjoyable the whole time. Yeah. As an elite marathon runner, what was your perception of the ultra marathon before getting into it? Did you view the ultra marathon space and community as true athletes prior to experiencing your first ultra? I do think I consider them full. I consider ultra runners absolutely like great athletes. I just think it's so different for. from running marathons. It's very different. Especially like at the level I'm running marathons.

I don't, I don't, I did well in the ultra, but I don't think being a good marathoner is why I did well. I think it's different. I think it's two separate things. But yeah, I think I probably looked at it as like, oh, it's a hobby, you know, until I did one. And then I realized there's nothing hobby about it. It's hard.

Yeah. It's really hard. I think that is the, the stigma around ultra running from people who haven't done an ultramarathon is because running at ultra, the best way I've seen it described is it is literally problem solving. Oh yeah. You are problem solving the entire way through.

For sure. Physical problems, mental issues, your mind and body is trying to quit and stop. Multiple problems at the same time. You're trying to stay on top of fuel and food and your toes and your feet and all these things. So for an elite athlete outside of the ultrospat looking in, you're watching these athletes, these runners, eating a slice of pizza or a cassidia, you know, throughout the day in the middle of a race. And it's really easy to say or assume that's not what elite athletics looks like.

But the reality is, it is just so different. Yeah. It's so different. Totally. that prior to the race I had all, I went to the grocery store and got all different stuff. Not knowing why or what, I just like, but looking back at the race and coming back into the little camp, I'm so glad I did because it wasn't like, what are you hungry for? It's like, what can you stand? Right. Like, what can you even manage to get down? And I'm glad I had options

because there was really weird things and different things at different times that I was able to get down. But yeah, just on top of what you said, it's one problem after another, and preventative even. My feet, my feet were great the whole time, but I was adamant about washing them, changing my socks, changing my shoes and letting the wet shoes dry. And I mean, the 50-mileer, my feet were messed up, like completely trashed. I was actually probably the thing that hurt the worst were my feet. But this was complete, my feet were probably the best out of everything. During the 50-mile, the course wasn't as groomed. No.

I just, yeah, I think that what were you going to say, sorry? I was just going to say that potentially, I mean, were your feet getting wet during the 50-mileer? They were wet. They were both soaked, both races. Oh, both races. I mean, I'm a sweater. You're also pouring, we have so many photos of you pouring so much water all over you, which could be it. I think, I don't think anyone would have made it without those ice coolers.

No, so many people mentioned that. It was like a race within the race. It's just get to the water cooler. And then it was like a refresh. I remember thinking a couple of times, like if I don't get to this ice cooler in a second, I'll have to stop. I can't.

I'm so hot. I cannot do this. And then it would appear. This is kind of funny. It took me until my 30th lap to realize that the coolers were at the mile markers. and the whole time, is that right? To be honest, I don't know.

Tony put those out. They were at the mile markers. I figured it out. And that's why they were too close together because we had it for one loop and then it was, but yeah, they were at the mile markers. And I wish I would have known

because I used someone else's watch and then I messed my watch up. And the whole time I'm like, I just wish I knew where one mile was, two mile was. Right. But I did it 30 times. You think I'd figure it out.

But it wasn't until the last lap. I realized, wait, the coolers are at a mile. Well, who took lead on? and building out your guys' campsite? Because your guys' campsite was... I did. That was a five-star. It was. Privately owned boutique hotel.

It really was. Yeah, it was nice. I was adamant about being the first one there. I wasn't the first one. True, it was. But we were right behind him. And I knew it was going to make a difference to have our space in the right spot and have it comfortable and have a tarp to sit on to keep the grass out. I'm really glad I did it. I will do the same thing next year because it was awesome. I mean, to provide people insight into what that looked like, I walked up, there was a grill, there was an espresso maker, there was a cold plunge, a mobile cold plunge, all of the snacks, all of the food. You could have lived there for probably like three months.

Oh, yeah, yeah. How did you guys power the espresso maker? We just had like large power banks. like box size power banks yeah yeah you guys were ready yeah we were ready I mean it was a vibe just like I would go over there and just hang out there it was cool there was food oh man it was loungy it was nice it was nice and it was honestly like under there the little breeze like it saved us the shade under there it was really nice so before we started recording you mentioned that the last man standing ultra

and the speed project were two of the greatest things you've done in your life Yes. Can you kind of describe why? And to clarify, not done in my life as far as running, but like something, two of the coolest things I've done in my life at all, like overall. I don't really know.

I mean, the speed project was unbelievable. Like, I think it was our team. It was the people that we had in our vans or in our jeeps and in our RVs. Every one of us is a go-getter. Every one of us is a, a team player encouraging incredible athletes

and then we just were all great friends and you know honestly I didn't know Lucy I guess I don't even think I knew Joey I don't think I knew really didn't know Ken but either way like after that first day like we all clicked and it was very very seamless yeah it was seamless

and I think I think that's what did it like I am a community driven person I mean I obviously like running and competing but I would not do it if it wasn't for the community. If I didn't have people to run with pretty much every single run, I probably wouldn't do it. If I had to train alone, I probably wouldn't do it.

I do it for the friends, the community, the people, and then fitness and competition is like a byproduct and a bonus. But yeah, I just got to attribute the people. I mean, like, our team was so cool. It was so much fun. Also, like, and this, I try and touch on this every time, Like, you're media guys. Like, they're the greatest dudes I've ever met.

Every single person that you hire is incredible. Always a great friend of mine. And supportive and having a great time as well. And they're freaking go-getters. Like, you have the athletes, go-getters, but then you have the media team and the crew that are literally also go-getters. Like, up all night with us working just as hard as we are.

Yeah, we set the same standard for who is a part of this. organization in this team, whether you're an athlete, whether you're fulfilling orders in the warehouse, you're filming videos, you're on the leadership team, anything. I believe that if you establish your core values, your purpose, and your goals, and people align with those things, that is the only way to get to where you want to be. Yeah. And win and succeed. And if you allow one person or you flex, you bend and you allow one person, you allow one person. You bend and you allow one person on that team who doesn't meet that standard, it takes everyone from being an A player to a B player instantaneously. It's by having one wrong person. So I appreciate you recognizing that

because I put a lot of time into that curation. And I also like the new guys that I meet and kind of get to know, I'm like, you should feel really good that you're here because you were handpicked, like handpicked. And I truly believe that goes as far as the athletes, the employees, just what you said is what I believed. I'm glad that you had. have confirmed that. But yeah, I don't know. Speed Project, greatest thing ever. I mean, it was also very, very hard, very challenging.

Getting lost and facing, like, danger was so exhilarating. I love that shit. I mean, every part about the Speed Project was so unique and different. Oh, yeah. I mean, for anyone who isn't aware,

it is a race that starts at the pier in Santa Monica so L.A. And then you have to get to Vegas the welcome to Las Vegas sign as fast as

possible. There's no route. There's no rules. There's no spectators. You just get there as fast as possible with the team. And we had six people and we established our route and

we were off and just like the energy, were you at the pier? Dude, the energy at the pier was unreal. Cops were showing up. They were trying to shut it down. And they kick off the race. Everyone sprints out of the directions. It was pure chaos. It was wild.

It was. And you go from being around thousands of people to very quickly. I was running in the dark by myself up this hill. Right. I think you took the first leg through the mountains, right? Yes, I did. In the trail. Yeah.

did not want that because all I kept thinking about was like mountain lions coming after me. I kind of like, like I knew there were going to be dogs and mountain lions are at different things and I'm like, I don't even care. I'm going all out and I'm running as fast as I can. And if I encounter something, it'll make for a good story. But yeah, I knew that that was and especially when we kind of got it more remote, like that show was kind of scary. It was, yeah. Was there any like few moments that really stand? down from that entire experience that that you took away

or you'll remember forever? I loved when we were lost. I loved it, but I also hated it. Yeah, I remember looking at you. I was stressed. Yeah, you were. And I remember sitting back there like, this isn't good, but no, I mean, like,

I knew we were fine. I knew we were safe. I knew we would figure it out. And it was just kind of fun. Like, it was like problem solving. Like, that's what we were doing. We were lost and we had to figure it out. I learned something very, very valuable, probably more valuable than anything I've ever learned in running.

And that's that when you bonk, you can come back from it. Like if you can eat and drink, you can come back. I learned, and what it proved to me, there were times at the Speed Project. One time in particular, it was right when we kind of hit that dead end and had to go to Powerline early. And I was like, I can't take another step. I cannot run anymore. I ate a cup of noodles and like a BLT or something. And 45 minutes later, and it was like, I was brand new.

And it blew my mind because I thought there was no way I could finish. I thought I'm going to be the first guy to quit. And then I came back from it. And so I learned, even in the marathon, even in whatever, the importance of fueling. It is literally the most important thing in running. and if you fuel properly, you can run forever. I learned that in the Speed Project and I learned that in the Go One More Ultra.

When I quit at the Go One More Ultra, I feel like it was more of a mental thing. Obviously, my legs were trashed, but they got trashed very early on. And then it was just like, it just sucks. Like my legs just hurt, but I can still go. It's the fuel that makes it or breaks it. And so I did.

I learned that in the Speed Project. and it kind of, it taught me that I can run anything if I can train and fuel. Like any race, any distance, any speed, within reason. We can all do it with training and fueling. That's part of the problem-solving strategy of all these races and efforts. And that's why I harp on it and preach it so much. It is, yeah. I believe that is one variable we can control.

It is. And when we're faced with problems or adversity, when it comes to efforts and races like this, what is that one variable you can control? There's a few variables. It's fueling and it's your mind. And I love the concept of a last band-standing race like we hosted on the ranch

because you literally have to make the decision to stop and quit. What was the first moment of that race or you had little inklings of, I think I'm going to stop. How far into it? I think the first time I thought I might quit was around mile 70 overnight. I had nothing left.

But everyone told me, and this is really sad, they told me, don't quit in the chair. I ended up quitting in the chair, but not in mile 70. I was like, I'm just going to go back out. I ate. I was a big chicken and Campbell's chicken and rice soup because I learned at the Speed Project

that cup of noodles with like 900 milligrams of sodium can snap me back. So I didn't have something to heat water to make the noodles soft, so I just did Campbell's chicken and rice soup. And I'm not kidding, like it was disgusting because it was like lukewarm, just sitting in the tent. But it brought me back.

Like it would bring me back. And so at Mile 70, I just chugged a chicken and rice. I chugged a thousand milligrams of, of electrolytes and I was like, I'm going to go back out there. I don't think I'll make it back in time. And like, after the first mile, I was like, I'm back. And that happened at 70, at like 90. And then I had a burst at around 100, which I don't know what happened there. Is that when you were cooking like six minute miles?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my last four miles leading up to 100, I was like, I want to be the first one back because I would love to have like a what would it be a 23 hour, 35 minute, 100-mileer, right? Because otherwise it would be 24 hours if I were to come in a little longer. I was like, yeah, I want to go for that. And I had a plan of like probably going to quit around 100 or a little after. And then, yeah, we had a, I cannot believe how many people stuck in it as long as they did. I know. We were at mile 80 and I'm looking around.

I'm like, how are there so many people to hear? That's the power of having people push you. Yeah. It is. They imagine if you went out and by yourself to that ranch to the loop, 4.2 miles by yourself and said, I'm going to go as far as I possibly can every hour in the hour. I'd call myself at, I'd call it 20 miles.

That's probably what I'd do. So you have people coming back with you every time. And you're looking to your left and right and you see them stand up out of their chair, walk over the start and finish line to restart another loop. and you're like, oh, I got to join them. I have a real FOMO problem. I have, it is real, and it gets me in trouble sometimes because I may not should participate in something

that I'm having FOMO with. But yeah, it got me out of the chair a bunch of times. How far do you think you could have pushed if you really had to? Could you have gone 200 miles? I think so. We'll find out next year. Do you have a goal for next year?

Yeah, to win. 1,000% to win. I went into this race mentally prepared to run 150 miles. I had work Monday and Tuesday. It was a holiday, but

you know, I don't, but anyway, I wasn't, my wife had been out there. There was a lot of things that I'm like, I just am having anxiety about it. I was prepared for 150. I was obviously dead when I dropped. But I do think it was more mental because I had hurt worse earlier in the race.

Like overnight, nothing as bad as hurting overnight because it's freaking dark. Yeah, I think I can go further. And I'm going to give it a go for sure the next one. I think I'll change a few things about my strategy as well. What kind of things would you change? In terms of race to execution or prep? Race to execution.

I think I'd probably go a little slower. Yeah, I think the biggest thing is I'd go slower. In the beginning, it was like a shock to go as slow as we were going just because I hadn't ever prepared for it. and actually my legs hurt in different places than they normally do when I'm running. Like my upper quads rather than my lower quads by my knees is where it usually hurts. But I think going a little more conservative and then maybe a faster rep to come back for a longer rest would be ideal. Are you fully recovered now post-race?

Yeah, yeah. I think like Tuesday, this last Tuesday, I was like, okay, finally I feel okay. Physically, mentally? Yeah, physically. Did you have lagging kind of brain fog? Like central nervous system? Central nervous system. I think that's, yes.

I had like a fatigue, like a general fatigue when I would go to run. Like my normal easy runs were much, much, much slower. And I'm like, I'm going as hard as I can as far as like easy pace. Right. Yeah. Could you sleep the few nights after the race? Not at all. Dude, after every ultra I do, I cannot sleep for like a week.

Yeah. Horrible sleep. I didn't have a real appetite until. 24 hours after I finished. So like the next night, I was like, okay, now I'm ready to eat. I just think nervous system. It's just like, I had my,

the roots of my teeth, like the bottom of my teeth on both top and bottom, were so sensitive afterwards. Like anything cold, anything warm, anything sweet would just like light up my teeth on the bottom. I'm like, I hope I haven't just like messed myself up forever. It's better now, though. as of like a couple days ago.

Some people who have never done an effort like that don't realize what it does to parts of your body that you wouldn't expect to be taxed. You would expect your legs to be tired and have some brain fog, but the things you feel and experience post-altramarathon are surprising. I was a little surprised by this.

My legs, if we're just talking general leg soreness, I think I'm worse off after a marathon, like CIM down hill on those hills. After a marathon running 510 pace, my legs are just completely trashed. Like quads feel like they're just done. I think worse off than in this ultra. However, it was so much more that was affected than just my legs. Like my whole body was hurting my head and that whole nervous system issues, some other nerve issues in my legs.

But as far as like muscular soreness, I think the marathon is worse. Ultra's way worse in other ways. Yeah. I was worse off after the ultra, but talking legs, marathon. Do you feel these big efforts you've done these last two years,

50-mile or 100-mile or TSP, they've reshaped the way you view fitness or physical potential in terms of achievement and what is possible? Oh, yeah. I mean, I remember before the 50-miler, I was like, I had it in my head. I could not run 100 miles.

There's no way. I remember you saying that. Not a single chance that I thought I could run 100 miles. I thought I could run 50. And then after running 50, I'm like, I think I can run 100. Because I learned about fueling. Like, that was a little speed project. after the Speed Project, I knew I could run, I think I can run like a long, long ways if fueling goes well.

Yeah. I'm excited to see what you do next year. I really am. I am so excited for next year. I think the hype around it and the people that are going to be preparing for it, I just think it's going to be so epic. Yeah. Oh, man, yeah. I want to take a quick break in this episode to let you guys know, my new book titled Go One More is now. live and available for order. And you can find the links in the description of this podcast or video to go order, go on more. I am really proud of all of the chapters, the lessons, the values, and the stories I share in this book. And you probably know that go on more, those three simple words have been revolutionary for not only myself and millions of other people, but for my brand,

BPN too. And Go On More for me has evolved over these years where when I first founded it, it was just based off of an action of doing one more of anything to achieve greater success and results. But the mindset shift that evolved for me went from Go on More just being an action to also being an outcome. And we achieve this outcome. by making intentional, life-changing choices. This book for me is transformational, and I know and believe that it'll be very valuable for you too. So like I said, you can find the link in the description

to go purchase your copy of Go On More. Well, there's this podcast I love, and it's called Founders. It's hosted by David Center. I talk about it all the time on this podcast. podcast. And I was listening to an episode this weekend while I was running. And it was talking about, or he was talking about how it's hard to trust people who haven't faced real adversity in their life. And I think signing up for races like ultras is one way to put yourself in a position to be faced with adversity. That's chosen adversity. The UF2, like we talked about problems. solve and overcome. There's also other diversity that you choose and pursue, but it's a different challenge.

And where I'm going with this is I think part of your story is much of your story, and it's very powerful. And I want to talk about your journey with addiction and then transitioning from addiction to running. and now the amazing personal endeavors and then professional success you're achieving right now, especially not only in fitness, but in real estate here in the Austin area. And as a professional Blackstone chef in your free time at home, I see you thrown down.

Yeah, thrown down. I'm jealous. But I want to hear from you the story of how your addiction started, what age were you, what sparked it, and kind of just hang out there for a little bit as we talk about the transition out of. Yeah. I think around the fifth or sixth grade,

I hadn't started using it, but this is where it kind of started. I had kind of been a quiet, shy kid until then. In the fifth grade, I started hanging out with the cool kids, like the athletes. I started playing sports, and because of sports, I started hanging out with like the cool kids.

Were you from originally? Dallas. Dallas, okay. Yeah. I grew up in Dallas. Fifth grade, sixth grade. Again, I was getting better at sports, which kind of made me cool.

But the seventh grade or seventh or eighth grade is when some of my friends had older brothers that I saw drinking and smoking. I think it was also around the time that I had met friends from other schools. We had a high school, it was Jesuit high school, and all of the little Catholic middle schools would all meet on Fridays and go to the football games.

We would all meet at the game and hang out in this little area. So I started meeting friends from other schools, kind of like the guys that, the same sort of people I was at my school, they were at their school, like athletes, but also kind of the bad kids. I think I saw the attention that the bad kids got, and I wanted that.

Like, oh, he's, he's, so crazy, he's bad, like, oh, wow, that sort of thing. And I really wanted that because it was a way to get attention. I didn't necessarily excel in academics to get attention. I wasn't this all-star athlete to get attention, but I could be the bad kid and get plenty attention. I think I, maybe seventh or eighth grade is when I tried weed for the first time. I had tried cigarettes more recently, a little earlier than that. And then I think I started stealing liquor out of my parents' liquor cabinet. And we had to, we had. this guy, we called him the beer man, and we could call him at like 1 a.m.

And he would, this was like 8th grade. And he would just drop us by a bottle of McCormick's liquor and we'd pay him like 50 bucks, which was wild, and then he'd go. And we had this beer man and we'd steal. And we would just drink after our parents went to bed and then, you know, they didn't really know. But then I think summer going into high school is when things kind of started to get a little crazier.

I started drinking more smoking weed. I was like a daily weed smoker going into high school. Freshman year of high school, same sort of thing. I was playing sports. I was playing football, running track. But my sophomore year, at least summer after freshman years, when I started driving, everything, the wheels just flew off once I could drive because I was then able to access everything.

I had never had any interest in trying anything other than weed and alcohol, but I had a really close friend, my best friend today, lives here in Austin still, but he was kind of the guy that showed me everything. He showed me weed the first time. I think we were in the seventh grade. I think it was seventh grade. But anyway, he had grabbed some cocaine from someone. He did a favor for this drug dealer and he gave him a bag of Coke. And they had, my other two friends had tried it. And I was like, guys, like, that is so bad. Like, I was mad. I was mad at them. And he's very convincing. He's like, oh, it's not that bad. Just give it a try. And so I tried it. And I was like, that's like nothing.

What was I even afraid of? Let's do more. And so that was like sophomore year, going into sophomore year of high school. I think most weekends were drinking cocaine and some pills, Xanax or whatever. Or we experimented with a lot of MDMA and ecstasy. Xanax and cocaine and alcohol were what I did in high school. That was like my go-to Friday afternoon after high school. I would maybe get a paycheck or my parents would give me some money.

I would go straight from school to my drug dealer's house. I'd get a little bag of pills, some cocaine, some weed, and I'd go pick up some beer, and that would be our weekend. And I had a job lifeguarding. I worked at Potbelly Sandwich, and my parents would pay for my day-to-day, and everything that I made I'd just spent on drugs and partying. Do your parents have any clue all this was going on? At that point, they had found weed the first time, and this is funny because I've heard this before,

but my mom, I had a little stash under my closet, under the clothes of my closet. She left me a little note that said, hey, come see me. I was like, oh, shit. But I didn't really have any... You know what it was? It was, oh, my friend gave me this, and they believe me every time. Like, no foul on their part.

Like, they want to believe their kid, right? Anyone does. But yeah, I hardly had consequences, and that's a theme throughout. But the first time I got caught with weed, I didn't have a consequence. The first time I got caught drinking, I probably had small consequences, but not really.

It ended up being, like, if you're going to do it, I'd rather you do it here sort of thing. And in high school, that's kind of what we did. My house was like the party house. My parents would drink with us. They were cool with it. And they said, as long as you're doing it, doing it here, we're okay with it.

But like, it would start there and then we'd leave every time. And they didn't really care. There's like, be careful. Looking back, like, we were wild in high school. Do you go to a big high school? I started at a Catholic high school, which was big-ish. But here's what was big is that we all went to these, was like nine, they were called like the parochial schools. It was these little Catholic middle

schools. And they all fed into either Jesuit and Ursulin, which were the guy in girls school or Bishop Lynch, which was the co-ed Catholic school. So it wasn't necessarily a big school as far as Bishop Lynch. We had like 250, 300 people in each grade. But we also had like Jesuit and Ursuline, which we were all very close with. Gotcha. Okay. So it was a big community and it was so like private schools, it's not like you just know the people in your neighborhood. people are coming from all over Dallas and the whole area to go to these schools. And so by that you meet people like outside of town and sort of thing. Like where they're from, Plano, whatever.

It's a big network of lots of different people. In high school, I did have a decent size network of friends, which has been a theme as well. And I want to talk about another thing, but I'll get to that. But I see the people that I like and want to be like and I insert myself there. It happened in as a kid when I was shy and I saw the cool kids and I'm like, I want to be like them. I put myself right next to them. Then the athletes, then the drug addicts, then the bad kids. And then it got into like sobriety.

Then the athletes, the fastest runners in Austin. I'm like, I'm going to go sit right next to them and do what they do. And then I'm in my career, same sort of thing. So I've done that since the beginning, whether it was negative or positive. But yeah, I don't really know where I was going with that. You were in high school. you're at home, drinking with your parents, leaving in the evenings,

after they kind of went down. There's one thing about all of that that I just want to say, is that I had a great time. I had so much fun in high school. I liked a joke that I peaked in high school because I was a cool kid. I was bad.

I got a lot of attention, but it was like cool attention. I seemingly had a ton of friends. In hindsight, it was more so like they wanted to do, they wanted what I, they wanted to use the drugs, they wanted to be at the party,

they wanted to, I got to drive really young at a younger grade, a lower grade because I was like held back in pre-K. So I turned 16 before my sophomore year. So I seemingly had a whole lot of friends and community and like, but really looking back, it was like they wanted to take part in what I was taking part in, which I think is a pretty common thing. But I had a great time. And that's important because I had a great time even into my first year of college and then I didn't. And then it got really bad. You had a good time? You were happy?

You were fulfilled? I was happy. Fulfilled is, I feel like for a young kid, yeah, I was fulfilled. I was getting everything I wanted. I thought this is what life is going to be like. Yeah, for everything that you knew life could offer. Correct. Yeah, from, yeah, exactly.

And it's so funny because my priorities and the things I thought life were going to be like so many different times. It was just like so crazy. Like there was a point in time. that I thought I would just use drugs forever. It was more of like when I was like in the bad, bad parts of it. But I was like, this is just how it's going to be and that's fine. But yeah, high school was great. I went to college.

I did not run in college. However, I was pretty decent at track in high school. But when I went to college and went university of Arkansas, I was like, I'm going to put the drugs down. I'm not going to use coke. I'm not going to use pills. I'll still smoke weed and I'm going to drink beer. I'm not going to drink liquor anymore because I get shit-paced and I do crazy things.

I got to college my first semester, I did that. I just drank beer. I went to frat parties. I hardly went to class. I made all C's. And I was having a great time. My freshman year of college, about halfway point, I was introduced to opiates. And I had tried, like, hydrocodone before, but it really didn't do it for me because I like to party. Now that I'm in this, like, I'm trying to do better. I'm going to put the drugs down. I'm trying to stay in a little more, like, focused on school because I didn't want to do well in school. Like I had very, I had very, I had, I had, high ambitions in school. I really wanted to do well. Were you studying? I was studying biology. What did you want to pursue post-colle? I wanted to be a doctor, yeah, at that point. Even my dad was a doctor, and I obviously him and his friends, I looked up to them from

like the very, very beginning. I, yeah, I did well for like a semester, and then I found opiates. And my thought was like, I had a real. roommate who had done opiates all of high school. Like same sort of thing like me, but like he was an opiate guy, which are like, opiates are hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, fentanyl, and heroin. Like the ones that are, they're not like party drugs. They're like, sit there and just feel it drugs. But anyway, he showed me opiates and I'm like, this is perfect. Like now I can stay home and study and not feel like I'm missing out, going out. So I started using

opiates. And I started using them pretty heavily in the beginning. And it was like, first time I did it, I think I tried like three or four hydrocodone. I was like, this is great. My roommate was like, hey, you got to try oxycodone. Like if you like hydrocodone, oxycotton is like 10 times better. I was like great. And I thought in my head, it's harmless because it's pharmaceuticals. Like I'd been using pharmaceuticals for the last like five years. And, you know, it's, how bad could it be? The first time I had opiate withdraws. I remember it so clearly. I was with some more friends from Arkansas and I thought I had the flu.

I was like, man, guys, like I came down with the flu. And just so happened, we were not unable to get any pills around town. And one of my friends was like, yeah, let's drive up to Missouri. I got a guy up there. So we drove an hour up to Missouri in this drug dealer's house. At this point, I was free basing them off tinfoil. So you cut the pill in half, you put it on the tin foil, you light it underneath and you fall it with a straw. And it's like instantaneous.

Like one hit, instantaneous. And so I was at this drug dealer's house. You snort it with a stroll? No, no, you inhale. You burn it underneath and it like smokes right off the pill on top of the foil and you inhale the smoke with a straw. And at this point, you're using every day. I'm using daily. I am using daily, but still not knowing that I'm addicted or having withdrawals or anything like that.

Like it's probably been two or three weeks. And that's it. But yeah, when we first introduced OxyContin, he's like, yeah, we can snort it or smoke it. Like you don't want to swallow it. It doesn't work as well. I took a hit at this guy's house and I immediately felt better. And I was like, that is so weird. Like I thought I had the flu.

And they were like, no, you just had withdrawals. And I'm like, what? That was awful. And then I'm like, oh, that's not good. Because like at that point, like, I'm going to have to go through that again if I want to stop. You recognize that right away. I did recognize it. When I took that hit, I was like, and I felt better.

I was like, that's so weird. Yeah. They told me. And then I recognized like, oh, shoot. Like, am I stuck? Yeah. because it was awful. I was still functioning

because I'd only been using three weeks or so. Fast forward, that was like a daily thing. Like I really, it went so fast. My opiate addiction, I think like that, I was a daily user and I was a daily all-day user. And then my whole life revolved.

I mean, I'd show up to class sometimes. I'd do my homework as much as I could. I'd show up to take the test. I made Cs across the board. I'd never worked harder than I did to try and find drugs or resources or whatever. What am I going to hustle to make money and what textbooks am I going to sell? Whatever. I never worked that hard in my life, which is important moving later.

But I remember another time probably a few months down the road from that. And I was sitting in my room with my roommate. Same guy I'd been using opiates with. We just used together him and I. And I told him, I looked over. and I was like, bro, I think I need to go to rehab. And not having any clue what rehab it was, what it meant, what you did there. But I just remember sitting in my little desk chair, like knowing about the withdrawals at this point.

And even at this point, like, I couldn't go through the night without getting sick. So in the morning, whenever I wake up, I'm dry heaving. I'm probably vomiting. My stomach is in knots. I've got the body aches and I'm cold sweating until I can take that first hit. And then I'm good. But every morning was like that. It was like, fuck, I open my eyes.

I'm like, oh my God, I'm fucking so sick. How many times start the day would you have to use to keep up with that? A lot, yeah. So I'd say probably like every two hours minimum. Oh, wow. Another thing that I learned after experimenting in every different ways of using smoking or free basing is the most immediate and it is the most intense withdrawals, even when I moved into like the IV use. Smoking, it was as bad.

was the sickest and most withdrawals I've ever had was like that first year of college. And after that, my best friend that I mentioned earlier that I tried everything with, he called my mom and was like, hey, he's using real drugs. You need to figure out what's going on. She drove up there, picked me up, and I went to rehab the first time. When I went to rehab, I didn't want to stop. Obviously, I wanted to stop opiates because I was in this cycle and I knew I couldn't get out of it without like intervention.

And so I went to rehab. I was like, okay, I'll just get off the opiates. I'll go back to school. And I'll be good. I'll just go back to my thing, like Xanax pills and drinking. I got out of rehab in the first day I drank a beer, which they told me I couldn't. They said that you can't do that if you want to stay sober. I'm like, okay, I'm 19 years old.

Get out of here. I drank a beer when I got home with my dad. And I was like, yeah, you know, I'm done with the drugs. I'm just going to drink. I think I relapsed two days later on drugs. With every part of me saying I'm not. going to do it again. And then, so here we go into the cycle over the next like seven years. Seven years. Seven years with that, yeah. How many times over those seven years did you go back to

rehab? Six times. It averaged out about once a year, but it wasn't once a year. Sometimes it was I'd go and then two months later I'd go again or a year later I'd go again. Yeah, it was a very hectic cycle. What was the longest period of time post rehab that you stayed sober before relapsing? I think the time I think probably like six months maybe

I'd go to a 30-day treatment center and I'd go to a 90-day sober living program and then I'd get out and live with a sober person and then him and I would relapse pretty shortly afterwards. Every time. The longest I think was the most recent time. I was sober

just about a year and I was working at a restaurant in Austin and I had planned it all out. I was like, we're having a boat party, a employee boat party and I'm going to drink. I planned it out a week in advance. I was like, I don't care anymore. I'm going to go drink a beer on this boat. I picked up a 12 pack by the end of the evening. Like we got back around like four by like seven or eight p.m. When it got dark, I was at my old drug dealer's house that I had known for years here in Austin. And I picked up cocaine first because I hated getting the spins. Like when I drank too because I'm an alcoholic just as much as I'm a drug addict. I drink until I'm gone. But I'd use cocaine to bring me back and then I could keep drinking. So I'd go get cocaine

and I would do that whole thing and then like 5 a.m. I'm at his house again picking up Xanax because I'm coming down so hard and I need something to, and then I'm just off to the races again. That lasted about two weeks and it was as bad. It had never gotten that bad that quickly from like a drink. And today people say like, well, you ever drink again? and I'm like, honestly, that's the one thing I cannot do. Because all of my decision-making skills, my morals, everything that I, like, stand by, go out the window. And I'm just like, sure.

Why not? I don't care. Drinking is the one thing I know I can never. I mean, I can't do any of it, but like drinking is the one that leads to everything else. Is that because one drink leads to multiple drinks? Multiple drinks leads to problem solving where you're literally, all right, I'm coming down. Yeah, I need to get back up. Exactly.

One thousand percent. Get back up. Yes. Yeah. So over those, first off, appreciate you sharing all that. Yeah. In the course of those seven years, what ended up happening to your college pursuit? Oh, man. I was in and out of college for seven years. I, my poor parents, I mean, they paid for my college.

And it was like, I'd go back to school. I'd get through a semester or maybe like three quarters away through a semester and they'd have to, to pull me out to go back to rehab. I was so horrible. Not horrible to them because I truly believe I was sick. I want to reference Ultra or I want to like tie them together, ultras and using and sobriety. But I don't think I'm there yet.

But yeah, my poor parents, in and out of rehab seven years, on and off drugs, jail. I've been charged with six felonies, all possession charges. I think three of them I got into car accidents, like bad car accidents falling asleep and then just finding drugs and paraphernalia all over the car. Because like when I hit something, they would just like explode everywhere.

That happened three times. And I mean, countless relationships lost. A ton of people that I hurt. People that I was so close with, best friends and family that I just, my mom, and this is like one of the most vivid memories, was I was at their house. I'd stay at their house

and then I'd go off and be gone. for a week bouncing around couches and then I'd come back to try and like you know show that I'm okay um but one time she had found my drugs and she was like sleeping on the couch next to the front door in like our little living room because she didn't want me to leave and I was like sick and I remember going over to her I knew where she had myself and I guess she had stopped me taken something from me or had it my my drugs and I just grabbed them out of her hand and turned around and walked away and went out the front door that's probably the worst I mean, obviously not the worst thing I did, but that hurt me the most because my mom stood by me through every single second of it.

Whether it hurt me or helped me, it was her intention. But any moment it got too bad for me, like I'm so sick or I'm so broke or whatever, I could call her and say, hey, I need help. She'd be right there. Do you need rehab? Do you need to come home? What do you need? Do you need money? So she was my biggest supporter, probably a big detriment.

looking back, but like no blame on her, but she's just doing what a mom would do. I mean, I was the manipulative one. Like, everyone believed me for the most part. But yeah, so seven years of in and out, college tuition. I went to three different colleges. Yeah, it was wild. It was awful.

There were parts of it that I enjoyed. And the biggest thing of it, and this is kind of what I mentioned before was I thought this is how it was going to be forever. I truly thought I would never figure it out and I was okay with it. I was like, I'm going to be in and out of treatments

or jail or hospitals. I had countless overdoses. And that was just how it was going to be and I was okay with it. I kind of get it, like some of the guys that live on the streets and they seem okay because I never was living on the streets,

but I had plenty of overnights on the streets. It's like literally just like on foot. And I would post up in some alley and I'd sit down behind a trash can and I had my drugs there. And I was, I didn't need anything else. Like I literally did not care that I was laying on the side of an alley in the middle of the night. Like it was heaven. No one would bother me, that sort of thing. So I kind of get it.

It didn't matter my situation. If I had my drugs, I was good. Yeah. How close did you get to dying during that time? Um, that's a good question. I think probably, I think any one of the times that I OD'd and maybe went to the hospital or maybe didn't because there was nobody there. But there were a number of times that I would shoot up and end up, like it would be 10 p.m. And I would wake up in the morning in the position that I had like, like either hunched over my, like falling over onto my knees, like sitting down and like that or just falling directly to the side.

and I'd wake up and I'd be like, I'm like fully dressed. I had fully plans of like going out tonight. I just like completely probably OD because I was like unconscious. Whether I was close to dying or not, I have no idea. But I imagine that yeah, I probably was because most people do die from this drug. How did it get to heroin? What did that step of like? I remember that day so vividly as well.

I was an oxy cotton user. It was like the fancy heroin. I had a friend, Kirk. I won't say his last name because he's still very much around, but he's doing really well. He was like, yo, and he had told me this before. He's like, yo, I have a guy he sells black tar heroin. He's like, I know you can't, they're not,

the drug dealers are all out of Oxycontin. I got a guy he sells black tar heroin. I was like, bro, no, never doing that. That's trashy. That's, mm-mm. What is black tar heroin? There's like two types of heroin. Black tar is like the Mexican stuff

that's manufactured in Mexico and brought up. It's like a goo. It's like a black goo. Other heroin is like white powder. This is like easier. to manufacture and it does come from Mexico. So it's very plentiful in Texas. Most border states have it.

The East Coast, I think, is more of like the other kind. But anyway, yeah, he was like, finally one night, we were at a friend's house at a party and I was like, I can't get any oxy. He's like, I can't get any oxy. He's like, I got that guy. And I'm like, okay, let's do it. And I was sick.

And he was like, let's do it. I was like, let's go get it. So we drove over there. We got here one the first time I snorted it and I did it and I was like, it's nothing. I thought it was going to be insane. Like oxycottons stronger than that, probably. Obviously, snorting it and then I guess a couple weeks later, like it was cheap. It was very, very cheap.

But a couple weeks later, I started injecting it. And that was like game over. This is the absolute best, most efficient, best way to get all the bang for your buck was to inject it. And I think that was probably like 2010. and then I got sober in late 2015, so five years of IV use, IV heroin use, and then IV cocaine use, IV meth use as well throughout that time. Why does heroin get such a, I don't say, bad reputation,

but why is it so popular of being this drug that is truly this downward spiral afterwards? I think it's so addicting. I saw this, I don't know, a statistic, but like it's like how much dopamine is released and it said the amount of like when you see a sunset or when you eat a great meal or when you have sex and then heroin is like 50 times that dopamine release. And then crystal meth is like a hundred times that. It's so it. It's a euphoria. Like you do it and immediately you just feel it coming on because it's like in your veins and you can feel it.

You taste it in your throat. And then it happens and it's euphoric immediately. And it's like a numbness. That's what the whole thing was. It was numbing. I was not okay with who I was. I was fearful of literally everybody. I couldn't look people in the eye. I hated who I was, but I loved who I was when I was drunk or high. At least I thought I did. It got rid of my, it gave me confidence. It got rid of my bad self-esteem, my low self-esteem. Anything negative, I overcame it when I drank and used. I was like, this is what I'm the expert at. Yeah. So in 2015, what changed? What started the process of sobriety? That's interesting. Nothing changed. I went into treatment for the sixth time. I didn't want to be there. I had snuck drugs in. I got caught with the drugs. I actually was like laying in my little detox caught with like five other people in the room. I had set a book up on my chest. so that no one could see me. Lights are on.

Everyone's in there, kind of reading or getting ready for bed. And I shot up in my wrist, like without anyone, like with the book blocking. And I passed out, and the nurse came in and found me with all of my stuff

just like laying on my chest in bed, like the spoon, the needle, everything, my little tourniquet, which is all right there. And they were like, what is going on? And they like woke me up.

They brought me into the other room. They, you know, not scolding me, but they're like, this is, you've got people around you, like, this is awful. You're in rehab,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they tried to kick me out. There was one case manager that was like, just let him stay. So they let me stay. Why'd you get a rehab if you didn't want to be there? I didn't want to be there. I just didn't want to stop yet.

I wanted to exhaust all of my cash and drugs, and then I was willing to work. Okay. But I had picked stuff up on my way home on the way for the drive, and when I got there, and then I had some left, and I was like, I'm not going to throw it away. I'm going to use it the first night or two. and then kind of ease into it, and then I'll do it. Do a lot of people, sorry, just question, do a lot of people show up to rehab high?

For sure, almost everybody. They almost encourage it because if you're like on alcohol or benzos, you can literally die from the detox. You can't die from a heroin detox. It's really miserable. But like they kind of encourage it, like just do as you would do and show up and then we'll get you on detox meds. But yeah, I don't, there was nothing different other than like,

every time I'd been to rehab I'd kind of half-assed everything. Like I'll go and dry out, I'll feel better, put some weight on, get a job, and then I'll go back to it. This time, same mentality, but I was like, you know what, they told me that this stuff would work

if I did it to my best ability, referring to the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. And I was like, that's bullshit, but I'll try it. So I tried it as hard as I could so that I could say, hey guys, I tried it as hard as I could. It doesn't work.

but it worked. And that's the only difference is that I actually applied myself into the 12 steps and I can't explain it. It worked. It truly works. Was it your first time doing

the 12-step program or was it every time? It was my first time doing it truly honestly with no hesitation, like no reservation. That is the first time I did it as best as I could.

I was truly honest. I was honest about everything. I was honest about that was a big one is honesty. I was never honest because I was so awful. I didn't want anyone to know how bad I was. I had done it before and I had gone to the meetings, but I never sat down with another man, a sponsor,

and worked through all 12 steps and then worked with other new alcoholics. I'd never done that. And it did truly save everything. They told me, this was so true. The 12 steps is not for people who do it. It's not for people who, oh no, sorry. It's not for people who need it.

It's not for people who want it. It's just for people who do it. And honestly, it is a roadmap for life. The obsession to drink and use drugs left me very quickly as I started this journey. And then the gifts of how to handle life, how to handle stress, how to handle my job, how to handle relationships, how to show up and be who I want to be. And that's really what the focus is. like again the obsession to drink and use left and then it was like just a roadmap for life

like how and it could anyone could benefit from it like it truly would be so great for just anyone to do because it is the same stresses that I dealt with that I numbed are the same stresses that literally everyone has I just coped with it poorly but yeah anyway I've heard people who have had success with sobriety and have incorporated the 12 steps they are massive believers in the 12-step program. Absolutely. People speak volumes. Yeah.

It saved my life completely without a doubt. The one thing that could save my life, at least at first, because I can go into a number of things that have now saved my life moving forward. In all honesty and full disclosure, I don't work the 12 steps anymore. I don't go to meetings. I haven't in about four years. But I truly believe that I have found a replacement, and that is, fitness and community. I also think sobriety is so dependent on community.

I think just being happy is dependent on community because being alone is, I don't know if that's me or how other people feel, but I don't like being alone. I don't like doing difficult things alone. I don't like doing anything alone, really. I mean, obviously I like time alone, but for the most part. Community is so huge in my sobriety. And I think anyone who can find community, no matter what, what it is. If it's fitness, great. If it's something else, find something you love and find the people

who love it as well. Yeah. I mean, looking at your life now, I can see that. How important that is, and it's a principal value to your continued success. I think it is the number one. Yeah, I can see that just from everything you do. So transitioning out of rehab that last time, back to regular life. What did that look like in terms of things you started incorporating? Where did start working. How did your life get from there to here? Yeah, that's a, that's a good one, because I would say the biggest transformation was like non-sobriety to sobriety, but I kind of don't feel like that's it. Like, I kept moving about a year after, maybe a year and a half after getting sober. I was working at a restaurant, which they were so supportive. It was the same restaurant

that I relapsed at. When I called them after the relapse, I was like, guys, they obviously knew I was drinking, but I was there like, I've relapsed big time. I need to go to rehab. They're like, go, we got all your shifts covered. You got a job when you get back. Go take care of yourself. That's awesome. It was so huge. And they were also important moving forward after rehab, like incredibly supportive. Katie and Chris, they manage bangers now, but they were so pivotal in early sobriety. They have no idea. They don't even know. I've told them, but they have no clue how, like, important they were to me in the beginning. And there were a lot of people that that don't realize how important they were to me

throughout my journey and how pivotal they were in my journey and my sobriety. But I did, I love that job. I had great friends. Most of my friends were either in the restaurant or from the 12-step meetings that I went to. I think I started, I was walking my dog through auditorium shores

one time smoking cigs because I did. I got sober. I ate awful. I ate cheeseburgers. I drank sodas all day every day. and I smoked a pack of cigarettes a day, if not more. Did you gain a lot of weight? I gained weight, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I was a chunk. How heavy did you get? Do you know? There was, it wasn't this time. It was probably a year prior, but I had gotten up to like 185. And what do you sit at right now? Like, 1.45.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So 40 pounds. Yeah. Yeah, I was lifting weights. Like, I was strong and I was healthy, but I was chunky for sure. I couldn't imagine you at 185.

Oh, yeah. I was a chunk. But anyway. the restaurant was incredible. Oh yeah, sorry. I was walking the dog through Auditorium Shores, and I saw this hit training group. Later, I found out it was called Organic Fitness and Training.

Jacob was the guys, and Jacob Wood. I walked up to them as they were doing their group while I'm smoking his sake. I was like, guys, what are y'all doing? And they're like, we're doing a fitness class. You should come out. And he, like, gave me his card with a schedule on it. And I was like, hmm, okay.

And so I went back home. you know, whatever. The next, okay, let me back up a little. I was sitting with one of my best friends, the guy, Trevor, that I've talked about previously, I tried everything with. And I was like, yo, like, I want to date a fit girl. Like, I think that's who I like now. And him and another guy were like, why would a fit girl ever date you?

Like, take a look in the mirror, bud. Like, you're not that kind of guy. And I was like, you're right. So move forward a couple weeks. I found this, like, hit training camp, and I asked them what they were. And I showed up the next day. I was a pack-a-day smoker. I also chewed tobacco.

I never picked up another cigarette for at least like seven years after that. Like I never, I went to that hit training class. I did the workout and I never picked up another cigarette because it hurt my lungs so badly. But I think I went pretty much every day after that. And I went for about six months or something and then I started running because we did a little bit of running. But I started, I'd leave from my house and I'd run down to the trail half a mile and come back. What year is this? This is probably like late 2018.

Okay. Because I think early, maybe it's late 2017 or late 2018, but it was, I think 20, it must have been late 2018, but anyway, I wanted to be a runner now. And I wanted to run a five-minute mile because I had done that as a kid. And really in eighth grade, I ran a five-minute mile. And then I did it through high school,

but that was about as good as I got. and yeah I thought it was insane of an idea but I was like I think I can do it because I had done it before all throughout my using I had always had this like thought in the back of my head that like if I can ever get sober I want to be a runner because I enjoyed it as a kid my parents were both marathon runners I loved it as like a seventh and eighth grader even freshman in high school

and then I had other interests like drinking and drugs but I loved it I was going to be a runner that was like fifth and sixth grade I was like that's what I'm going to be. So I thought the whole time using that I would possibly end up coming back to that. And I never thought it would turn out like this, but I thought maybe I had some talent. But I did. I joined the Gilbert's Gazelles and he trained me for like six weeks and I ran a, I don't know, four, 48 mile and it blew my mind.

I was like how. And six weeks of training? Maybe a little longer than that. I mean, but like I'd been doing six months of hit training. training, like with some running. I started running on that. It's extremely impressive. Yeah, it was impressive.

And then after that, I think I ran a cap 10K was my first road race, and I ran it in like 36 minutes. And then I did a half marathon in like 116, which in hindsight, like, those were great times for someone who never ran. They're great times for right now. Like, they're great times for people right now. But it didn't hit me yet that I was going to be good. And then I guess I trained for grandma. I did a marathon in December with Gilbert's Gazelles. It was December of 2019, and I think it was December of 2018.

And then 2019, after CIM in December, 2019, I started working with Jeff, or late 2018, I started working with Jeff. You just knew Jeff from the inner circles of Austin? No, he wasn't even in the inner circle yet. So a girl, Rachel Baptista, he coached her in high school, and she had gone to college and come back. and we were training with, I guess it was Rogue or Gilbert's,

but she was like, I think I'm going to have my high school coach train me. And I was like, cool, yeah, like I'll help you. Like I just ran a marathon CIM, you're training for Houston. I'll pace you and stuff. I paced her and then with Jeff coaching and got to know Jeff. And at that point, I was like, Jeff, I want you to coach me. So he coached me to Grandma's in early June of 2019, and I ran 107.

And that was like my breakthrough. That was when I thought like, trials or like 220 marathon or like I had a thought in the back of my head I didn't really tell anyone but I was like is it possible um just because I had gotten better and better and when I ran that it was 5-10 pace I remember finishing and the next day I was like I think I can run a marathon at that pace obviously like it took me years but five years later I ran a marathon at that pace um yeah I don't know I fell in love with it I fell in love with a challenge uh it was very very, very hard. And it was the biggest thing was that I could see tangible accomplishments,

like the numbers on my watch. Seeing things getting better and better was like something I could wrap my head around. Like I can work towards something and then see it. And then I work even harder and then see the progress. Kind of throughout this whole last 10 years has been like that. Like it is such a rewarding, you're talking about the dopamine, running as hard as you can and then seeing that number on your watch when you finally finish that mile loop and it like is something good and you're like, oh shit. That was awesome. That's almost uncomparable. How do you feel about when, because I can't speak into this because I've never come from addiction before, but when people say that so many prior addicts find endurance sports and

they funnel that addiction into a new passion, do you believe there's validity there? Absolutely. Well, Max told me he was like, or Max, sorry. He was like, what kept me high is what makes me good at ultras. And I didn't really get that until I did Last Man Standing. There were, I want to talk about, let me just, let me just say it. But there were times out there where I was like, I can't even take another step, like out in it, in the dark. And like, I can't take another step. But like, all I want to do is just take another step.

Like, it was literally the same thing of like, I'm not going to use any more, but all I want to do is use more. It was the exact same thing. And I can't even, I didn't, I've never had that in a running thing. I've never experienced that before until this ultra. And it was like, I'm addicted. I have to go back out there and keep going because I just can't. Like I can't not do it. I want to do it.

But it's so hard, but I just want to do it. It was a crazy thing. Did you recognize that in the middle of it or in retrospect? No, I recognize it in it. I was like, this is what Max was telling me. I was like, he was so spot on. the same thing that was like, I've got to get these drugs. I've just got to do it.

I can't stop was the same feeling I was like, I got to just keep going. I got to just keep going. Obviously in a more positive way. Like I was enjoying it, but I was enjoying the drugs. Like I was like, I just got to get it. It really is so, so, so similar.

That the last man standing was the hardest thing I've done in my whole life outside of getting sober. And I've gone back and forth with this as far as what was harder. But at the end of the day, so many times in my addiction, I said, I am stopping right now. I don't care. No matter what, I'm stopping.

And then five minutes later, I'm shooting up again. And that happened over and over and over. I would throw my shit down the toilet and say, I'm done. And then I'd be in the car five minutes later driving to my drug dealer's house. No matter who was telling me, no matter how much I cared about someone,

no matter how much I respected or whatever or love myself or whatever, I could not stop. There was nothing that would stop me. No matter how much self-will I could muster to just put it down, I couldn't do it. The race was close, but even when I said I can't take another step, I could always take another step. So that's for that. Getting sober was harder.

Do you still struggle with temptations to use again, or are you far removed from that? I just love so much what I have right now. Like fitness has become so, so, so important. And that's when I say, like, I don't work the 12 steps anymore, but I do feel like I have found a sufficient replacement, which is fitness and community. I feel like I have so much accountability in the community and with friends and people that I run with and my wife

that, like, consequences and other things never kept me sober before, I don't really, I can't explain it. I have so much just love and passion for what I'm doing right now that a drink or a drug would just throw it all at the window and I could never do that. It's not worth it. No, it's not worth it. But it's not worth it. But it's not worth it. But I did it anyway.

I go back and forth on whether I'm on the right path or not the right path as far as sobriety. But the good news is that if I start to feel like I'm not on the right path, like maybe leading towards a drink or a drug, that I can always go back into 12 steps. but I really do believe that I have found a sufficient replacement. It is an addiction, for sure, running 1,000% I have done a cross-addiction into fitness. But until it becomes harmful, then I don't see the problem.

What's wrong with being addicted to fitness if it's not hurting you? Obviously, if I was addicted and I'm breaking my leg every three months, then maybe I've got to back off a little bit and figure out another solution. But at this point, it seems to be healthy. How is your relationship with your parents?

It's great. Going through all of this. Yeah. Going through it, like we had ups and downs, my dad and I had ups and downs. I never doubted his love, neither of them. Obviously, I disappointed them extremely, and they had every right to show that. But, man, they supported me through all of it. Like, when it really came down to it, if I needed help, they were there.

If I needed to get out of jail, they were there. It never, it didn't come without, like, if the deal was if they bail me out of jail, I got to go to rehab, which is fair. And honestly, looking back, it's like that is a golden opportunity that most don't get. I do think I would have ended up sober without rehabs and stuff. But I had a luxurious way of getting sober. Like, go to jail, parents bail you out, send you to rehab. Like, that is, like, without a doubt, the most cushy way to get sober there is.

People have it way, way worse. I'd gotten sober in worse conditions, and I've gotten sober. in greater conditions, I don't think it matters. When it's time, it's time. But yeah, they are, my biggest supporters, obviously are so proud of me at this point. My dad died, I think, like three years ago. Maybe it's been four almost. But I was actually traveling at that point, and he had gotten sick, and some of my plans fell through. And so I came back to Dallas, and I stayed with them for, like, a month and a half. And I'm so, so, so glad that that happened

because my dad died like a week after I left. But I was there to take care of him. I gave him showers. Like I did, I helped him. We had a nurse that was a 24-hour nurse, but I am so, so grateful for that opportunity. And there was one time, especially, that he had a doctor's appointment.

And he was very out of it, like, leading up to that whole time. But we had a day, and it was my aunt, who was his sister, and we took him to the doctor, and he was his old self again. It was so wild. Like, he was kind of grumpy, and, like, but he'd make jokes, and he'd, like, make fun of people. And, like, he was doing that.

And I was like, this is unbelievable. That I got to, like, share that with him. And I left back to Austin, I think, like, a week after that situation, and then he died, like, a week or two later. I can't tell you how grateful I am that, like, one, I got to spend that time with him. Two, when he died, I am a thousand percent confident that he knows

that I'm there for my mom and my family and I'm good. I'm not going back the way I used to be. And he did get to see a bunch of big accomplishments, which is great. I mean, I obviously wish he could see me now. And my number one wish is that he could

meet Jordy, my wife, because they would just, he would be so proud of Jordy because she's like everything. and people were intimidated by him because he's a surgeon. Jordy works with surgeons every day. She'd put him in his place so quick, and it would have been incredible.

But yeah, my relationship with my family couldn't be better all around. I have done what I consider a living amends to my mom, and that is that no matter what when she calls, I answer, no matter how busy I am, if she checks in with me. She texts me at the most random times, like 10 p.m. are you okay?

Because she gets like a feeling, a mom feeling, And I'm like, yeah, I'm great. You know, we're doing this. I never get annoyed with that. I always give a long explanation of how great I am. Because I know there were times when she would text me. She'd get that feeling. And she'd like, he's dead.

I know he's dead. Right. She got calls from ambulances, from police officers. Every time she answered it, this is the Dallas Police Department. I'm dead. My son's dead. So now when she calls, when she wants to come visit, I say, yeah, come on, bring your dog. I don't care.

We have three, but whatever. Bring yours. That is my living immense to her, is that I will never, ever, ever deny her. her the opportunity to hang out with me, to talk to me, to worry about me or anything like that. And it is really annoying. But I never show it and I do it with a smile on my face because she was my number one supporter and fan and probably the reason I ended up getting sober because of how willing she was to help me.

That's got to be incredible for your dad to have seen your transformation, but your mom to have seen it and then watch the continued success right now. I can't imagine. I mean, I have two young kids. And just thinking of them going through something like that. And you as a parent feeling helpless that you can't make the decision or choice for them. And seeing just the consequences and the downward trend. And I'm sure at some point both your parents were thinking, this is just going to end up in, like you said, his death.

Yeah, they did. like what you're doing now was never an option or a possibility and for both your parents to have seen and see that right now has to bring just like so much contentment and joy and happiness so like I know you did it for yourself to get better but just like recognizing you gave your parents their life back as well absolutely it's a powerful choice just what you said I gave them their life back because I mean they practically went broke sending me to rehab

they practically like I mean obviously lost sleep and stress and potentially could have cost my dad's career like all of these things that they gave up for over for about a decade to try and get their only son better

um yes the answer today I cannot tell you how much relief and peace and joy and just like contentment, like you said, is that knowing that they know that I'm okay, that my dad died, knowing that I was here for my mom, here for my family, whatever comes my way, I'm going to be good, because I'd handled a lot throughout sobriety. The one thing that I thought might take me out,

like that I always worried in early sobriety was like the death of a parent. Like, how am I going to stay sober through the death of a parent? My dad, I watched, like, he went into cardiac arrest. They brought him to the hospital. They, they, obviously got his heart going again, but at that point, his brain had, like, he had been gone too long. And so he was on a ventilator or like the breathing machine and everything. And I walked in and I just saw it. And I was like, God damn, this is fucking awful. Take him off of that. Like, that is the worst thing I've ever seen. But to be able to do that and be there for my mom and just like, yes, I can't even tell you how incredible it feels. Probably the biggest gift in sobriety is that, is my dad going knowing that I'm okay and my mom.

today knowing that I'm okay. Yeah, I'm like hearing that story. I'm happy for you, obviously, but I'm just as equally happy for your parents. It affects the whole family. Addiction affects the whole family. I've seen it on both sides because my dad was also an addict and an alcoholic. It just destroys families because everyone's worried. My aunt's uncles, cousins, everyone, everyone was worried. But yeah, they're okay now and they're okay. They know I'm okay. That's good. Yeah. So go on more is obviously very meaningful to me in this brand. But I can't help just to pull the parallels between

your journey and your story and what Go On More might mean to you outside of just fitness. Oh yeah. It has a lot. Can you kind of, like what does Go One More mean to you? Because all I keep thinking about as you're telling the story is just like the Go on More ultra. Getting through addiction and becoming sober, it has to be like one decision, one step, one day at a time,

over and over and over and over and over again. Yeah. I want to just start it with like, when I joined the company, when I joined as an ambassador, I thought it was really cool. I thought you were really cool. But I was like, you know, whatever. Fast forward a year or two. I'm still just an ambassador.

This is probably 2021 or something. I'm all in. Like I'm starting. to see, you know what changed everything was meeting the people, meeting the employees, getting to know you really well, and then meeting the athletes. At that time, it was ambassadors. We had the ambassador program. Meeting the other ambassadors. I was like,

these are people who want to do what I want to do. And I, from that point on, I went all in. I drank the Kool-Aid, and I went all. Yeah, I went all into this company. And it truly, I do think it changed everything. Nick, you're one of those people who have no idea how much you have been a part of my journey. I mean, I think I'd tell you almost every time, but like, let me go back to the Go One War.

But yes, in fitness, obviously, go one more is like my whole thing. Like, I'll keep going until, and I do that to a fault almost in workouts, is that like, I'm going to do one more. I'm going to go one more and I'm going to do it as hard as I can. But then moving forward, my career, sobriety, every single thing that I've kind of accomplished has been small steps in the right direction, just one more time.

Just like today, if the most I can do is just one step in the right direction, that's great. And that's fitness, that's my relationships, that's my career. It is all that. It's all just like if the worst, and I have bad days, obviously.

I've never had a real, real job. Obviously I work jobs, but I have found my career. And I get really, really stressed. I have real life stress now. But if all I can do is just go one more in the right direction, then it's a win. And no matter what I do that every single day, if that's minimum, if that's all I can do, it's a win. And sometimes it is all I can do.

But yeah, since sobri-even before, even like sobriety, one more day, what they told me was like, I had my sponsors like, hey, you want to use today? Just go one more day tomorrow. If you still want to use, use, use. And every single time I didn't. in workouts and in marathons and in the ultra. Every marathon I run, the Olympic trials, when I qualified, I said, okay, I'm, I got to stop.

I'm stepping off the course. Okay, I'm going to go one more mile. If I still feel this way in the next mile, I'll quit. And I never do. So yes, your whole go one more thing is literally applied in every aspect of my life. That couldn't help, but think about just like how directly tied in parallel. Yeah. Like you are a living example of everything we believe in and we stand for and our values.

And having you a part of the team is so meaningful and important to me because you truly embody and embrace all of it. I hopped, I drank the Kool-Aid and hopped on the bandwagon. And I'll be the first to admit that I was not on the bandwagon before. I mean, I thought it was cool. But man, I went all in. And really, like, the parallels between. like my life and then my BPN life are so similar. It's like unreal because it really did,

first of all, it gave me community and confidence and friends and fitness. And then I started this whole thing in real estate. And it was the same kind of thing. It was I applied myself in the exact same way. And it led to success. And I really do think that it can lead to success in anything you do. I love watching you crush the real estate game. Dude, when you post like,

how many homes you sold and leading the team, you know, just like in such a competitive market in the space to watch you crush it. When I see you post that kind of stuff, I like under the table, I'm like, yes. Yeah, well, you know, most people look at you for your athletic achievements. I do look at you for those reasons. But more so, man, it's balancing the fitness on top of running a business on top of having a family. That's where I'm just like, role model. Appreciate that. Yeah, dude. That is the most incredible thing I've ever seen. And I try and do what you, and if you can do it, we can do it. And if we can find time, if you can find time,

we can find time. Yeah, I agree. You told me, you said that once, if it's important to you, you'll make time. And that has stuck with me forever. If something's important to me, I can't fucking make time. As busy as I am, I don't care. I will make time if it's important. Mitch, I'm very proud to call you a friend. Thanks. This conversation has been well overdue. Glad we were finally able to sit down and have it. Yeah, me too.

And just watching you grow and crush it and watching your marriage between you and Jory just like evolve and develop. I'm just really happy that you're winning right now. And it brings me a lot of joy. Well, I have a lot of joy. It brings me a lot of joy being a part of all this. Like, it truly has changed. I said earlier that I don't, that there are a number of things that saved my life.

Dude, BPN, man. Like, I seriously believe it changed everything. Like, I really just, it taught me how to work. Like, I had role models to follow. Remember, I told you, I find the role models and I put myself there. Yep. I just, and I follow. I do exactly what they say.

I say, how did you do this? And I just follow it to a T. and it works and it works wherever I'm trying to go every step higher I try and take I just find someone that I want to be like I ask them questions and I do what they do Mitch brother thank you thank you