The Nick Bare Podcast - 164: How to Turn Hard Seasons Into Your Biggest Breakthrough | Ken Rideout

Episode Date: March 9, 2026

Ken Rideout returns to the podcast to talk about his new book, Everything You Want Is on the Other Side of Hard, and the life experiences that shaped it. We discuss his rise from addiction and adversity to sobriety, business success, and a 2:28 marathon, plus his recent Austin Half Marathon win at 54. This conversation explores discipline, faith, identity, risk, and what it takes to build a meaningful life on the other side of hard.CHAPTERS:00:00 Intro01:30 The Other Side of Hard02:58 Winning the Austin Half at 5405:49 From Addiction to Endurance07:46 Leaving Wall Street, Starting Over12:04 The Marathon Breakthrough15:41 Loving the Process, Not Just PRs18:54 Family, Roots, and Perspective23:38 Breaking Out of Your Environment27:06 Insecurity, Recovery, and Growth29:24 Marriage, Fatherhood, and Real Life31:56 Cancer Scare and Perspective Shift36:28 Faith, Weakness, and Identity43:41 You Are More Than Performance53:26 Build the Life You WantORDER KEN'S BOOK HERE: https://www.amazon.com/Everything-Want-Other-Side-Hard/dp/1668087057ORDER MY BOOK HERE: ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Go-One-More-Intentional-Life-Changing/dp/1637746210FOLLOW:Become a BPN member FOR FREE - Unlock 25% off FOR LIFE ⁠https://www.bareperformancenutrition.com/collections/performance-nutritionIG: ⁠instagram.com/nickbarefitness/⁠YT: ⁠youtube.com/@nickbarefitnessThis podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal [health or profession] advice. Bare Performance Nutrition (BPN) is not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. This podcast is not intended to replace professional medical advice.This podcast may not be republished without the written consent of Bare Performance Nutrition (BPN)

Today on the show, returning guests can write out. Thank you for having me. I just want to say before we start how much I appreciate you writing this book and then having to go out and do promo and ask friends like yourself to have me on the show. It's like by far much harder than writing the actual book. So I just want you to know how much I appreciate you allowing me to share my journey, my details of my book and everything else with your audience. I don't take it for granted.

And I thank you sincerely. No, I appreciate that. I mean, I just got done in this past year with the whole book process, writing, publishing, PR, doing the tour. So I feel you. It's truly a marathon. Well, I'd also like to say that a big part of the, a big reason why this book actually came to fruition in part is because of you. And people like you that allowed me to come on when, you know, I couldn't get arrested. No one knew who I was.

And you allowed me to come on and share my story. And it resonated with so many of you. fans that have that I feel like I'm part of that tribe like we're all kind of like I was telling you when I walk into your facility here at BPN I'm like I feel comfortable I feel like I'm with my people and being able to share my journey with your people really allowed the book to become a reality because it read my story resonated with so many of your tribe members so absolutely so the book is called the other side of hard yep everything you want is on the other side of When does it launch? When's it going live?

March 10th. Okay. It's coming up. Yeah. How's the PR efforts been so far? How do you feel about it? I think that the book is excellent without sounding arrogant. The reviews I've gotten, I got a great one from Publishers Weekly. I just shared on Instagram.

The feedback has been incredible. I've got some awesome blurbs on there from Andrew Huberman, Reggie Miller, Gabby Reese, Dustin Portier, like just some of my really good. friends and I feel super confident about it. The PR stuff is hard. You know, when a show like doesn't want to have you on, you're like, oh my God, I'm so offended. But people like yourself and Rich Roll that have agreed to have me on, it's been super rewarding and humbling to have such good friends that support this stuff. You know, when you put your work out there in the world, you're just like, man, I hope people like this and you just never know what to expect. And I tend

to always think, be a little bit, I always hope for the best, but prepare for the world. us. I'm like, oh, what if people hate it? So it's been a, it's definitely been an emotional roller coaster. No, I get it. I'm glad to support. Throughout the conversation, I want to talk about like what it means, you know, everything you want is on the other side of heart, what that means to you and the way that I perceive and what that means to me as well. But before we get there, let's set the stage a little bit this past weekend, Austin Half Marathon. I mean, BPN and myself were there in a meaningful way. One course nutrition sponsor, Expo, Shakeout, Run. But you threw down with a one hour, 15 minute, 53 second half marathon to 548 minute

mile pace. Number one in your age group, you're going to turn 55 years old in about three months. May. Okay, yeah, about three months. What's your PR for the half marathon? 110. 110. 110.

10. When did you do that? 10 high. Well, I ran 110. high on a very difficult course in Nashville in 21 or 22 when I was 50 or 51. But last year here at the other Austin half marathon, the kind of net downhill with a tailwind. I ran, I think my official time was like 111 in a few seconds, but my watch registered at like 110, 55. Okay. That was a downhill downhill tailwind core. I mean, it was perfect conditions. But I was in a little bit of

better shape than I was this past weekend. How would you rate the Austin Marathon course? Dude, hardest. One of the harder half marathon courses that I've run, just given the fact that it was probably similar to Nashville, but Nashville wasn't, was freezing cold. And I always run super well in the freezing cold, like gloves, long sleeve shirt. And it was a little bit warm on Saturday. But I also, to be fair, like I've trained for like five weeks.

I mean, anyone who follows me, you know I run 10 miles a day every single. day. So I always am like fit on a relative basis. But as you know, there's a big difference between being fit and being ready to race. Like running 7.30 to 8 minute miles for 10 miles is a far cry from running. My PR is like 522 per mile for 13 miles. So the other thing about that is you're out there for a lot longer, but the suffering is like double what it normally is if you're in good shape. So you're running faster and you might think, oh, it's harder to run that fast. No, for me it was much harder to run 115 with the conditioning that I had. If that makes sense.

We were talking about this a little bit yesterday. I'd love for you just kind of share briefly your evolution and improvement in terms of running over the years because I think a lot of people would look at you and think, oh, this guy in his teens and 20s and 30s who was running 215, 220 marathons. But that's not the case. No.

And I love that you shared with me. yesterday, you know, you didn't even hire a coach. No. Until you were down close like two hours, 30 minutes in the marathon, right? So what did that running evolution look like and how much faster have you gone over the last two decades? Yeah, so I was always like, you know, run a few miles to stay in shape like a normal person, like a normal, like a normal, like fit guy, I boxed. I lifted weights.

I tried to run a little bit, you know, five miles would be, or six miles would be considered a long run. If I ran a 10K and was even close to seven minute miles, I would be psyched. So, I mean, that wasn't a bad runner, but I never ran competitively at all. And then from about 28 to 38-ish, I was a full-time drug addict, taking opioids 24-7 around the clock, you know, 30 to 60 percocets every single day. You know, save for a week here or there, I tried to get sober and then realize how deep in the hole I was and go right back to using. And when I got sober in around 2010, that's when I started to lean into endurance sports. And at that point, I was 39.

Yeah, 39. And so really when I was in my 40s, I started to like late 30s, early 40s, I started to get into endurance sports. And I did the Iron Man in Hawaii a few times. Like any, like you, I did a couple triathlons, got the shit kicked out of me. And I was like, man, these guys shouldn't be able to beat me. I need to figure this out. and I just became obsessed with everything like the bike, the transitions, and started dialing it in. And as I was, obviously, I was started to run a lot doing that and doing the Ironman stuff,

but wasn't really good at running on a relative basis. And in 2016, I had my fourth child. We moved to L.A. and I was living in the Santa Monica Mountains in Pacific Palisades. And I had four kids in Iron Man training, as you know. I mean, I had babies. I had my kids were five, four, two, and new. Like, we had our hands full.

And it was just, you know, Iron Man can be a super selfish pursuit. And around that time, I was like, I just have to focus on running out of necessity because it's not fair to be gone for five or six hours every Saturday and Sunday. What were you doing for work at that point? So I was a trader on Wall Street for 20 plus years, like trading, first I traded commodities. I ran commodities sales and trading for all. of Europe and Asia for Canter Fitzgerald. Then after the fall of Enron,

I came back to New York after 9-11 and took over the credit derivative business for Canter-Fritz-Gerald. During 9-11, I worked at Canter. I was in London the week of the day of the terror attacks, and we lost all the people, obviously. And credit derivatives was like the most lucrative trading desk at Canter-Fitz-Gerald.

There were people there making a fortune. And they asked me to come back to New York and take over that credit-derivative business. I knew nothing about credit derivatives and it's super complex financial instruments. But like just like with endurance sports, I just fake it till you make it. I just figured it out and started to have a really good run there and was just super lucky and fortunate to have that opportunity. I was sober, but I was struggling and I was commuting in from Westchester into New York City

and I was like, this is not this is not sustainable. Like I'm killing myself. The traffic is killing me. I didn't want to take the train. so I was driving an hour each way and heavy traffic. So we moved to L.A. And I met a guy out there called Jack McDowell who changed my life. He had an asset management firm called the Palisades Group.

We were riding bikes together. And I was basically begging him to let me run business development. Like let me raise institutional capital for him to manage. He didn't have anyone doing it. He just had like word of mouth and referrals from existing clients. But we did something like that was highly unlikely that we would be able to do. And we did it. and it was massively successful.

So that allowed me, and that changed my life, because then it allowed me to work my own schedule and focus and train and do the things that I wanted to do. And at that same time is when I was like really focusing on running. So even when I was working at the asset manager, I would get up every morning and run 10 miles in the mountains every single day. 1,200 feet of elevation gain, it was brutal. But it was gorgeous.

I was running in the hills above Pacific Palisade. So on one side, you could see the ocean. on the other side, you could see the city of LA. Not a single day went by that I was like, that I didn't think to myself, like, I can't believe this is my life. Dude, I would see coyotes. One day I was running up there, and I came face to face with a, like, full adult mountain lion.

So I'm focused on running, and I start running some local races. Like 5Ks, half marathons? Half marathons, a little bit longer. I never liked 5Ks and 10Ks. I mean, I did run a bunch of those, but really the focus was on half marathons and marathons. And so I started, I set a goal. So when I moved to L.A., I had just that year before or the year I moved there,

had just run like a 258 at New York. And I was like so happy, but I thought I could run faster. And how old were you? This was in 16. So I guess I was like 45. Okay. Well, yeah, 45, 46. It was in 2016.

Yeah, about 46. It's about 10 years ago. Yeah. So when I get to L.A., I ran the L.A. I ran the LA Marathon, I think the second year I was there. And I, so maybe 17 or 18, and I ran 240 or 24, one or the other. But I was like, that was when I was like, whoa, maybe it was 240 where I was like, oh, my God. Like, I have some potential.

Like, now I'm obsessed. So I ran the Malibu Half Marathon. The first year I was there. It came in second. And then the next year I was there, I won. But I mean, I won. I ran like 117. Then the next year I went back.

An Eritrean guy beat me. and then the next year I went back again, ran 112 and won it again in the Malibu half marathon. Not a huge race, but still, it was a cool race. And then in 2020 or 21, I think it might have been right at the beginning. Right weeks before COVID kicked off, if that was 21, I ran the Pasadena half marathon. It was like 8,000 people. It was a big race. And it finished in the Rose Bowl on TV.

And that was the first real big race that I won where I was like, holy shit, I'm going to, Like as I'm running into the Rose Bowl, I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to win. And there's people there and there's a finished tape and newscast. And I won. And I was like, oh, my God, I did it. I won. And that's the same time I was like folk trying desperately to break 2.30 in the marathon. And I had run that year that I won, the year that I won Malibu, the first time I ran the Tucson Marathon, which is a net downhill.

I was trying to find a fast one. And I ran 233. And again, I didn't have a coach then. And I was just running 10 miles a day. And on the weekends, I'd do a 20-mile or progressive run. Just take off at like seven-minute pace and try to get down as fast as I could for the last like five miles of a 20-miler. And that was my whole running strategy. Zero track workouts, zero speed workout, no structured like tempo runs, intervals, like nothing.

Just when I felt good in the trails, I'd run fast. And all the miles except the long run always in the trails. So up and down huge mountains. It makes a big difference. Oh yeah. I was strong. I was super strong. But I never really had like outright speed.

And I know people listen to be like, that's pretty fast. But like in a 5K, I was never running like five minute miles. Like they just, I just couldn't get to that like next year. But so when I got to 233, I'm like, okay, I'm there. I'm going to do this now. But I was also like in my late 40s. So I'm like, I don't know. Is that the fastest I can run?

And then I ran 234 at CIM. And then I ran Boston in 235. No, Boston was a hard course, but I was like, I can't break through. And that's when I hired a coach Mario Fraoli in like, I want to say 2018, a summer of 2018. And I had been hosting a podcast with Teddy Atlas called The Fight with Teddy Alice. And he trained this Ukrainian kid called Alex Vosdick, who was the WBC light heavyweight champ of the world, former Olympic bronze medalist. And he was fighting Arder Better Biav in October in Philly. and Teddy asked me basically to be like the assistant trainer.

So for eight weeks in the summer of 18, I lived with the fighter and Teddy and a chef. And I mean, in like a training camp that was literally like a rocky training camp. I don't think I went out to eat for eight weeks. I didn't go home. I didn't see my kids. We trained for eight weeks. But while I was there in the training camp before we would go train at like noon time every day, I would get up and run along the Scully Kill River, which was flat.

And I mean, I put in, I had a coach, I put in structured hard workouts. And that December, so I trained there from August to October. In that December, I went to CIM and ran 228 low. Oh, wow. Yeah. How'd that feel? Oh, unbelievable. There's nothing like racing the last 10K of a marathon and I was racing.

Is that your PR to this day? Yeah. I've run 229 like 5 or 6 times since I turned 50 and I did that race. I was either 48 or 49. But at that race, I remember seeing my coach at Mario at like 20 miles, then at 23. And I was like, I remember the first one at 20. I'm like, dude, I'm on one. I feel so good.

And he's like, keep going. At that point, you're just in a sprint, basically. Even if it doesn't look like sprinting in your mind, you're sprinting for the last like four. For sure, yeah. And it was awesome. That felt good. Like anything, you see like 228 in like 10 seconds. I'm like, oh, I couldn't find 11 more seconds.

You know, it's like never quite good enough. I never like crossed the finish line. I'm like, when I won the Goldie March, which we can talk about, I felt good about that because I had no point of reference for time. I was just like I crushed everyone by 90 minutes. But all the marathons I always look and be like, could I have gotten down to the next like big figure faster? Yeah.

Do you think at this point, you know, almost being 55 years old, you can break your PR in the marathon or the half marathon? you feel you're still getting stronger? I don't think I could do it in the half marathon because there's just something about the speed is so much harder than the endurance. I think if I like obsessed and just did nothing else

except training for the marathon I might be able to get close because like just two years ago when I won the 50 and over age group world championships I was 52. I ran 229 low. So I was like a minute off a PR. I mean I had done so much.

It's hard to say. Like I never, we were talking about this yesterday. Like I never feel like I optimized my nutrition. I always eat healthy, but I never really optimized and tracked and did all the little things. I never, I mean, I've had like three massages in my life. I don't stretch. There's a lot of things that I don't do that I think I could find some more time. But again, like I was saying to you before we started, like some things feel like work and some things feel like fun.

And right now running is like at times it's work. work, but that's something I enjoy. If I had to start doing real data analysis and the things that I don't really like, like focusing on the nutrition and the stretching, I could probably get a little faster, but then it becomes like a serious full-time job. I mean, it's a really good point there. There's a cost that comes with pursuing certain goals. And I think we all have this personal responsibility. Yep. To be honest. with ourselves to identify, if I take this new path, will I lose the passion and love for it? Yes.

And then does it just become work? And then it's so much harder to accomplish because you're doing it just for the end result, not the process anymore. And I also feel like if I were to do that, it would be performative and it would be for other people, not for me. Like, I'm good with what I've done. Do I think I could? Yes.

I mean, gun to my head. Yeah, I think I can do it. but do I want to and like the sacrifice it would take my kids are getting older. My wife certainly wouldn't be happier for me to take any more time training. I try to like inconvenience them as little as possible with my training and my own selfish pursuits. But as I've said many times, like my health and wellness is my number one priority above all else. Because without my health mental and physical, I'm useless to my family.

So like to a certain extent they understand that's got to do what dad's got to do. not to the point where I'm missing like big events for the kids, but, but they know that like, I'm not normal. Like I have, I'm a drug addict. If I don't keep my mind focused and do the things I need to do, I've got to keep the train on the track. And some of that sometimes can look like selfishness to the outside world. But to me, it's like, man, I have to do this.

Like, it's not like I'm missing events because I'm playing video games. I'm like, listen, I have to have this obligation to myself. This discipline and dedication to this journey that I'm on has. has changed our lives and it's allowed me to be home for big events and it's allowed me to be around my family a lot. So to neglect that would be almost irresponsible. It keeps you grounded. Yeah. So you've obviously accomplished a lot in your lifetime and your book talks a lot about it. Family issues growing up, addiction. Obviously you talked about the business side and when things were going great, they collapsed and fell apart. You've achieved, I mean, amazing feats physically.

I'm curious, though, of all the things you've accomplished, what are you most proud of? And why? I grew up in inner city just outside a city next to Boston and Cambridge called Somerville. It was very much like an inner city, like city environment. But it felt small because I was at times felt like I was a house of horrors living with my mother's brother, my uncle, who was a lifelong heroin addict, and his buddy's always hanging on. It was just a complete house of chaos. And for context, I have a brother who's 11 months younger, who's never had a job. He's only been in and out of prison and had, like, sold drugs and done, like, illegal activities. And he grew up in the same conditions I grew up in. He just chose a different path. He took the path of least resistance

and just went with the people that were, like, taking the easy way out. And I just never felt connected to any of those people. So I couldn't wait to get out of there. But when I look back at- Are you still in contact with your family, your brother? I see my dad occasionally because my, his wife is awesome. And my wife is connected with my dad and my, um, and his wife. And the kids get along really well with them.

And I talk to him, but I don't really talk to my mom. And for years, I didn't really talk to my brother. I was just, I've always been angry at him because it was like, you know, as a kid, it was embarrassing. He was always in fights, always getting in trouble. And I was the polar opposite. I was like a good kid in high school.

I got along with the principals. I was like, I wasn't a nerd, but I was very much like a teacher's pet type. Like, I liked people. And when I was writing the book, I had anger for him, but in the book, if anyone who reads it,

you'll see, I realize, like, man, this kid has like some mental health issues and they were undiagnosed and my parents did nothing to have. help them and they probably just made things worse. But when I wrote the book, the editors and the fact checkers were like, we can't find evidence or records of your brother being in prison. Are you sure he was in prison before we write this in the like description of the book? I'm like, yeah, it was multiple times. So I send them a text and we like would talk like once every couple of years

on text. And I was like, hey, what years were you in so-and-so prison? And what's your cell number? because I was just going to call him. He goes, I was in Billerica this year, that your cell number was J-11. I'm like, no, your effing cell phone number, you dope,

not your prison cell number. So anyway, I called him and I was like, you, like, I'm not imagining this, right? He's like, no, no, I was in Billerica twice.

I was in this one, one time. Two years ago, I did a year in this place. I'm like, you were in prison two years ago? I'm like, for what? He's like,

oh, crazy trumped up kidnapping charges. You know, I got in a fight with my girlfriend. And I'm like, you were in jail for kidnapping? I like to get your shit together. But anyway, that was, so I'm in touch with them sparingly. But, you know, a lot of times now I feel tremendous sympathy, whereas it used to be incredible anger.

But when I look at all the things that I've done, what I'm most proud of is probably, number one, getting out of that situation that I have another stepbrother who's eight years younger, who's in a similar situation as my full brother. that he's, I think he has serious mental health issues, but also has addiction problems. And, but when I think about getting out of there and then getting sober, like, so it was incredibly painful to then find myself in this whole of addiction, knowing that I had nothing but contempt

for these people I grew up around and then to find myself in the same situation. But it was so desperate that when I got sober, I was like, I'm going to kill myself or get sober because I'm not going to live like this. I don't want to be a loser. And it almost did kill me. I mean, the story in the book when my wife finds me unconscious and I was like as I wake up I'm like contemplating jumping off the balcony and I because I was just so disgusted and embarrassed with myself but I obviously pulled it together and uh to me when I think about some of the running and the physical stuff relative to the real difficulties I've been through which is all emotional is pales in comparison I'd much rather be physically uncomfortable than emotionally uncomfortable

Yeah, it's, it all becomes relative. Exactly. At that point, what is it that, and I'm sure it's a bunch of different things, but can you pinpoint to maybe a few things or one thing that allowed you to exit that previous life? Because like for so many people, when you're born into it and you're surrounded by it,

it's so hard to even see the other side. Yeah. like the greener pastures. It's like, I'm in this and there's no way to escape. Yeah. It would allow you to have that escape route. Yeah, that's a good question because I felt that as a kid, I'm like, I had, you know, I didn't have rich friends by any means.

I know there were towns like near us where we'd play other towns in hockey and we'd drive through their town. I'm like, wow, it's beautiful. Look at the house. Oh my God. It was crazy to like fantasize about living like that. But I had no mentor. I had no point of reference to think I could do any of that.

I always use the analogy that if you told me to go to New York and work on Wall Street, which is what I would eventually do, I would have thought I'd have a better chance of being an astronaut, which was crazy because I wasn't a great student. And I was never like academically, like thriving academically. But I knew I wanted to go to college and I don't know where it came from, but I just knew I wanted to get out of there. But I thought, oh, when I graduated high school, I started working at the prison as a correction officer and I'm going to college. I'm like, oh, I'm going to graduate from college. going to be like a probation officer or a counselor at the prison and just like lock in with like,

you know, a hundred grand a year and benefits. And I was like, and that's fine. Like for people that are doing that, I love it. Like everyone is on their own journey. I don't mean to poo-poo anyone else's dreams. But I realize quickly, like, I need to be in a position where the ceiling is limitless, meaning I'll take all the risk. And the downside is I make no money, but the upside is I can make as much as I can make. It's I eat what I kill. And anytime I've been in a job where my compensation is based on my performance, I've always, like, overachieved. Although going into it, I've always been like, you know, preparing for the worst, hoping for the best. I'm like, okay, if I do this bare minimum, then I can at least get enough that I know I need to survive.

But I've always achieved more than that. But that mindset never leaves me. And like to the point where I'd say to my wife, like, oh, I did this deal. Thank God, I'm good for the rest of the year. She's like, it's January. She's like, why don't you think you're going to be able to get anything else done? I'm like, that's just, she's like, you've done it every single year. And every year you've like done the things that you set out.

But every year you're like, almost like that's the best. I'm never going to be able to do that again. Like with winning a race, I won a race. And it's like, every time I do well at a race, I'm like, thank God. That's probably the last one I'll do well at. And then eventually you get to the point where you're like, no, no, I'm consistently doing this. but it's hard to like, I feel like once I start believing that I'm really good at something,

the work ethic starts to drop off. So it's almost like subconsciously I refuse to let my guard down. So as a kid, I was just like, I know that I need to, if I want to be successful, I got to separate myself from this situation and start putting myself around the right people. So I always tried to like be friends with people that I thought had the things, the characteristics and the traits that I wanted.

literally I just subconsciously I knew to try to surround myself with winners and stay away from the losers where do you think that that mindset comes from or it's like you accomplish something and then you tell yourself this is it like I'm never going to accomplish it I was lucky yeah I was lucky yeah where do you think this I guess you can call it almost like lack of confidence yeah comes from prior to being addicted to drugs, I never had like any lack of self-confidence. I always believed I could do any. Like I always had real solid self-belief and self-esteem. And I think going through the addiction really did a number on my psyche and caused me to feel a lot of insecurities.

And in a weird way, even now when I think about it consciously, it's almost like a defense mechanism that if I refuse to let myself, think that I'm better than I am, I can never get disappointed, meaning I'm not holding myself in such high regard. I tried to present myself always as humble because I'm insecure. I don't want someone on the internet to be like, this guy thinks he's better than everyone. F him. And that insecurity, I think stems from the addiction journey that I just haven't been able to like get through. That's one thing that I am definitely like trying to work on is like stop worrying about what other people things. Every time I see Rich Roll, he's like, when are you going to stop worrying about what other people think about you? And I was like, Rich, I desperately want to not care what anyone thinks. And I actually

went to, I read about this in the book as well. Two years ago, I went to a place in, outside of Nashville called On-site Workshops. And it's for, if anyone knows, like the Hoffman Institute or Bridges. It's like, I've heard such good things about that, actually. It was life changing. Steph and I were looking into it. Dude, life changing. I think, I've told my wife, I think there are couples there going through it as couples. I think it's, you don't need to be in a bad spot to go there. I think that you can always improve. And I remember seeing the older couples that were there and thinking like, I was there for myself because I needed more than my wife. My wife is like incredibly emotionally healthy. But I remember thinking and talking to these people because you're in a lot of group sessions together.

It's like a trauma healing center. So it's like intense intensive therapy for like five days, no phones, no distraction. So when you're not in these therapeutic sessions, you're just hanging with the people. And I remember saying to one of the older couples, I'm like, I don't know if proud of you is the right description, but I'm like, I'm so happy for you that you guys are like, yo, marriages take work.

If you just think you're going to show up and your marriage is going to be awesome and you're never going to have to do anything that makes you uncomfortable, egos get in the way, lots of things cloud the picture, kids. You know, when you're dating your wife and you don't have children, and like you're like hanging with your best friend. You introduce children into the mix.

And now all of a sudden you're running like a deadly serious business together. And it's like all the things that were fun and cool sleeping on the weekends. Go here, go there. You know, let's just shoot. Let's go to the Bahamas this weekend. All of a sudden now you're like, can you wake up with the kids tonight? Like I've been up to the last three nights all night. One of the kids is sick.

And it's like, holy cow. This like if you don't, if you're not connected with your partner, that can get ugly in a hurry. which is why so many marriages, I think, end in divorce. Because your life changes in ways that you can't imagine. I love having kids. It's the greatest thing. But the minute you have the kids, the life that you had is over. It's never coming back because now you have someone for the next five years

that can't take a crap, take a bite of food, a sip of milk, or do anything without you. You see every single thing that that kid does for at least five years. And while, yes, it's rewarding and it's excellent and it's life. changing. It's just the minute those kids arrive, the next chapter of your life starts and there's no going back to the old one for better or worse. And if you're not prepared for that, it can be challenging. I was actually thinking about this in my run this morning in preparation for this conversation. Everything you want is on the other side of hard. And right now, Steph and I have two young kids. We have a three and a half year old daughter and a one and a half year old son. And a lot of

days are hard, are challenging. But you forget about all the hard times and challenging moments when you're sitting with your kids and everyone's laughing and you're putting them down to sleep at night and you think about the future. And it's like you can't get to the joyful, fruitful moments without the hard. You need the hard for the satisfaction to come. It's on the other side though. Yep. Of those hard moments. I was thinking about that on my run this morning. I think so many people think about hard things in terms like I got to send up for a marathon and I got to go do this race and I got to push myself physically immensely and emotionally. It's like just going through life it's going to be really hard for everyone. I'll tell you this, nothing is harder and I'm sure

you know this, nothing is harder than seeing your children. And recently my wife had breast cancer, nothing prepares you for seeing your children and your partner sick. Like my youngest son was thrown up for like three straight days overnight. And when you see, you know how it is when you feel like you got food poisoning or something and you literally feel like you're going to die right you can't stand up you're just throwing up you're like it's coming out of both ends and you're just like completely helpless and my wife is like so good at being a caretaker and my youngest son is so like emotionally intelligent he's like as he's throwing up and like crying and he's a mess he's 10 he's like thanks mom thanks for taking care of me i love you so much mom

because he's just so helpless and realizes that his mom is like going to do anything to that like help him get better. And then seeing my wife get sick, man, that was of all that, again, along the lines of all the difficult things I've done, that was one of the hardest things that ever happened to me. You know, she had best case scenario, everything's good now. But when you find out that she has cancer, when we found out she had cancer, man.

When was that? September. I wanted to die. I was like, I was almost inconsolable to the point where I was like almost felt bad for her that I was like such a blubbering idiot because I didn't want to scare her but I was like, you hear someone has cancer. Like my first thing is like, dooming womb.

Like, oh my God, it's a death sentence. She's going to die. And I have four kids. And it was, and it was, it's, you know, she had a lump. And she's like, I've got this lump. And I'm like, what the hell? Almost angry. I'm like, how do you just notice that you have a lump that big in your breast?

But she's never been sick from anything ever. No cancer in her family. So she went to the hospital, get the test. The crazy thing is she's like, I got this lumped. They're like, okay, we can get you into mastectomy in five weeks. I'm like, I called back. I'm like, are you people insane? She has a huge lump in her breast.

Like, what do you mean five weeks? So, like, oh, maybe we can get in in four weeks. So we go. They're like, okay, oh, this needs a biopsy. You know, they can't tell from the mammogram. And they do the biopsy. And then a couple of days later, my wife calls me, she like, I don't know what to make of this thing.

They're like reading the lab results. It doesn't just come out and say you have cancer. It has all these, like, medical terms. So she calls the thing, calls the doctor and calls me back hysterical. And she's like, I have cancer. And I was like, oh my God. It was horrible. Like one of the worst, that day was one of the worst days in my life because I was like,

I would rather have terminal cancer than have her have even a curable cancer. Yeah, I can't imagine. Oh, it was so sad. And then, thank God, everything worked out. She had a mastectomy, a single mastectomy. And now everything's good. She's cancer free. She had, like I said, best case scenario, stage one.

They cut it out. And even when we were going through it, there were days like, you know, we will be both a mess for a few days. And then at some point I just looked at it and I was like, you know what, F this. We can either roll over here and die and like be victims or we can just get tough, be an example to the kids of how you deal with difficulties, suck it up and let's just, whatever the game plan is, let's just do it. And if you have to get chemo, whatever it is, we're just going to power through it because the alternative is to be weak and just let this consume us and then paint ourselves as victims. And we're not victims. This is a bump in the road

and there'll be more. I call them like the hidden taxes of life. You know, like your car breaks down. You get a tax bill you didn't expect, you know. There's just things in life are going to happen. No matter how much money you have, you know, the expression. A rich man has a million problems. A sick man has one.

And when things like that out of your control happen, you're reminded of how lucky you are. And now, I mean, every day one of us will say to the other man, we're so lucky. Everyone's healthy. The kids are good. you know how it is. Everything could be better.

Yeah, could I have more of this and more of that? Sure. But for the most part, we have everything that we need, which I always say, like, I have what so many, like, super rich billionaires don't have, and that's enough. I have enough. Like, I'm good. And I feel super grateful for everything that we have,

especially coming through this recent cancer thing. Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, Steph and I were sitting in the sauna last night. We do that every night, I've ever put the kids down to bed. and there's a lot of people in our lives right now with young kids who are having health problems. And we were just talking like, man, we've got to be so grateful that we have healthy kids, we're healthy ourselves,

and just realizing the gratitude for that. You know, yesterday when we were recording for your podcast, sat down and had a conversation, you mentioned that your wife takes the kids to church every Sunday. Yes. How did your wife's faith planned her diagnosis and how she handled that spiritually and emotionally? She's pretty tapped into all that stuff. So, you know, she spent a lot more time meditating and listening to her religious podcasts.

And she has like a little meditation room in the house and she spends a lot of time in there listening to different things. But I'm probably at the place you were before you like surrendered to Christ. Yeah, like, yeah, saved. I'm like, I go, I want to go. I so desperately want to feel that calling that you felt, I genuinely do. Even when I saw your Bible, I'm like, there's like, I don't know, I feel this like calling to like explore this journey that like what you're on because like I just said, I have enough. I have everything I need.

But there is definitely, I definitely feel like there is like a spirituality void and I'm being naive and lazy about exploring it. And I'll go with them like a few times a year. year and I love it. It's weird, man, when I walk into this church, I wish I could remember what the name of it is in Nashville. Sean Johnson and Andrew East go there. If anyone knows them, if they hear this, they'll be pissed that I can't remember. But a lot of our friends go there. There's a few different branches in Nashville. And when I walk in, like especially at Christmas, the pastors out there, all the church elders or the leaders of the church are out there. Everyone's pretty young there.

dude it's like they're magnetized to me i walk in and they all beeline to me and shake my hand and i'm with the kids and my wife and they're saying hello to the kids and even my daughter who's now 15 she's like dad did you know that every single one of them like felt like like drawn to you like a magnet they're like oh there's the guy there's the one we need to get and i was like yeah did you notice that she's like yeah it was almost like they were like couldn't focus on anyone except you as soon as they saw you they were all like including like lead pastor was like a celebrity there. You know, it's like one of those kind of churches.

Yeah. It was, uh, it was hard to deny. I was like, man, it's almost like to like, yeah, we see, we, we know what you're thinking. Come on, the water's warm. Well, I can, um, I can relate to a lot of what you talk about in terms of the lack of confidence and the insecurity and a lot of this, uh, the striving and the performance is to try to fill this, this void. Yes.

And I chased that pursuit for so long. And the best way I heard it described myself, because I now can see the other side of it, is like there's this, this shaped hole in our hearts. And there's only one way to fill that, that hole, that void. And that's by following Christ. And we are weekly, yesterday on the podcast, we were talking about how, I was talking about how we are weak individuals. Yeah. And there's only one person stronger than us.

So I have two pieces of scripture to share with you. Because as we were talking about, I think we can find all these answers we're looking for in the Bible and scripture. It's all there. It's the truth. 2 Corinthians 12-9, my grace is sufficient for you. for my power is made perfect in weakness. It's like we are weak people. It means God's strength is enough to handle any situation regardless of our own personal limitations.

And God's power is most clearly displayed and fully realized when humans recognize our own limitations and we rely on him. And scripture talks a lot about suffering. This is Romans 5'3. This is one of my favorite lines of scripture. not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance, perseverance, character, and character, hope.

So I think to your family and your wife going through this cancer diagnosis, and that is suffering, that is physical, that is emotional, that is like mental suffering, not just for your wife, but for a whole family. but if we glory in our own suffering and put all that suffering into Christ into the Lord, it produces perseverance, perseverance, character, and character hope. And like, I would encourage you to explore that journey that's maybe calling you you to fill that void that you're feeling. How did you learn all this?

Like, even when I think about the Bible, I'm like, where do you even start? I open the Bible and look at it. I'm like, it might as well be. written in Chinese. I'm like, I don't even know where to stop. Dude, I was the same way. I had Chad Wright on the podcast a few months ago. Yeah. Recently after I gave my life to Christ. And, I mean, Chad, right, he knows theology. He knows scripture. Yeah. And I was like, how much time do you spend in your Bible? He said, three hours a day, every day for the last 10 years. It's like, oh my gosh, Chad. Stud.

Now for me, I don't spend that much time at it. Like, Steph and I right now, we're doing like this Bible recap. Yeah. Which has us read a few chapters of scripture every day together. And then we can like talk about what we're learning and what it means to us, which is a great experience. It's through the Bible app. But there's, you know, when I first wanted to explore and I was curious and I wanted to learn more, I just started in the New Testament.

and just started reading the Gospels. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. There's a few resources I can share with you if you're interested. I'm definitely interested. The book of James is one of my favorites. The book of Ecclesiastes is one of my favorites. When you say the book of James, is it a literal book? No, it's a chapter.

Like a book in the Bible. So right now I just open to Isaiah is a book in the Bible. Okay. Psalm is a book in the Bible. Acts. But like the new text is, Estimate starts after Jesus Christ was born and the way that he he taught and healed. And I think there's certain books in the Bible that would really speak to you.

Ecclesiastes, for example, talks about how all this toiling we do in the world, all this work we're trying to do, that actually gets us nowhere. You know, the one place we're trying to get to, heaven, the kingdom, all the stuff we're doing, the money we're making, houses we're living in, none of it really matters. So it really makes you feel small, which in a way produces this confidence, knowing that you're not alone and you can be weak because someone's stronger than us. Since you've started leaning into the faith, though, have you felt less compelled to do some of these, like, I don't want to say performative and put words in your mouth, but for me, sometimes the challenges that I take on, I don't enter them thinking that they're performative,

but when I look back at it objectively or subjectively I can be like, was I doing that for me or was I just doing that to say, watch what I can do. You know, how do you feel now versus previous to being saved with regards to those kind of challenges? It's provided me a new lens to look at these challenges through. Before, I feel like it had to do one after the other, after the other, because it's these performances, these races, these preps, or how I measured my worth. Yes.

Like if people are praising me and they're saying you're doing a good job, that makes me feel good. Yeah. My identity is rooted in that. I need that to live and survive. But now I feel that I can pursue these challenges if I really want to, but it's not to please other people. Yeah. I work with a mentor, and one of the things he was talking. to me recently about was I am driven by like this performance heart but also a pleasing heart.

So like I find my worth and my identity in performance but also pleasing other people. It's a dangerous place to be. Yes. And that's one of the things that I'm trying to work through right now is how do I live outside of the performance heart and the pleasing heart? And it never necessarily gets easy. Make it easier. But this whole journey, there's no finish line. And I think that's what's reassuring.

But at the same time, I think we do these preps and then we pursue these races because there is a finish line. You can do it and you can breathe. All right, I get a little break for a little bit until you go into the next one. Yeah. Well, the one thing I respect about my peers like yourself. is like being able to self-reflect and be honest with how you're feeling. There's so few, there's like a whole, there's like a whole group of like, I hesitate to say motivational guys.

But you know, these like people on social media, they're always screaming about like discipline and if you want to sell it, you got to be super aggressive. I feel like there's like almost a group of those kind of social media influencers that have no self-reflection. They don't have any ability to accept the kind of. accountability and be honest and vulnerable and open with their emotions. It's all like hard charging and like kill, kill, kill. And I'm always like, those are the people I think that are like the most scared. They're so scared that they're afraid to acknowledge any like real feelings. Like most those like super aggressive men almost are afraid to talk about real feelings. I think that's performative in itself. Yes. And it's lying to themselves of like they're trying to justify to them. themselves the most by justifying other people. This is the way we need to live.

It's drive, drive, drive, drive and neglect all your other responsibilities in life. Exactly. I've tried that and it doesn't work really well. No. Listen, you can be aggressive. Like I don't think anyone would say that I'm not aggressive. You can be aggressive in the right ways, but still be like honest about who you are and understanding where that aggressiveness comes from. Actually, two people that I recently, well, one person I recently interviewed as I guessed I'm showing one person who's just a friend here in town that you would absolutely love.

They remind me a lot of you is Mike Posner, the singer. He lives here. He's super, he's really getting into his faith. And Walker Hayes, he's the country singer. That's all you just had Walker Hayes on. Dude, that guy is a beautiful human being. He is such a nice guy. 36 years old, he was alcoholic, working at Home Depot on the night shift, writing songs, had six children,

seven child died at childbirth. got sober, rode fancy like, and now he's like living, I mean, he's living his best life, he's got a giant house with a trampoline in the living room. He's like a big kid. Everything is for his kids, but we had a similar conversation, and he's just in completely open and honest with his feelings, and it's just like refreshing to see guys that, and he's into hunting, he's like a guy's but he's also like honest with how he feels and is like, I think when people are honest about their feelings and talk about the things that we're talking about, it's refreshing to other men who might not feel the confidence to be able to talk about how they really feel

and the struggles that they're going through. Yeah. What is something on a daily basis that just is like a thorn in your side that you're trying to navigate in this next chapter of life? Oh my God. If I go through my day and all the things that I want to do better at, I want to get more sleep, I want to get my diet right, focus more nutrition. but in terms of thorns in my side,

even when I think I have a thorn in my side, I'm like, man, the anchor that I had tied around my ankle over 10 years with drug addiction will never leave me. And there's not a day that goes by when I'm sober that I'm not like, I can't believe I did it. I'm so happy I don't have to carry that like anchor anymore. So in a lot of ways, when I feel like something is a thorn in my side,

I try to address it. So there's nothing that I would say is a consistent thorn in my side other than my own internal dialogue where I sometimes would wake up and not feel positive. And then I try to reflect on all the things that you hear from like the people like Andrew Huberman, like get the morning sunlight, focus on positivity, don't look at social media too early, like all these little things that can change your perspective for the day and like set you off. Like I have a terrible habit of watching like the news channels like CNN, Fox. I go back and forth and see what each side is saying.

Not that I agree with both sides, but they're so crazy and they're so polarizing. And my wife would be like, why are you watching that? It's just like getting you upset. And I'm like, you're right, but I feel like I need to pay attention to what's going on. And the truth is, I don't need to pay attention to what's going on. It's almost like watching a sport. It's like entertainment, like see which side is crazier. And so that's probably something that I would say has been a thorn is I want to look at less social media

and pay less attention to the noise around me because I get distracted easily with noise. The noise is dangerous. Very. And it's so polarizing and it's all negative. Yeah, it's a dark, noisy world. And that's one of the responsibilities I feel with my platform and even more specifically leading the team here at BPN in my family. It's like, how do we mute or silence the noise that's happening out there? A lot of it's just chatter.

Yeah. How do we focus on the real mission of what we really want to accomplish? If we allow ourselves to be distracted by the noise and the darkness, it is distracting. It takes us off course. You'll never get to where you're trying to get to. I really try to enforce that and amplify that within my audience, but also with the team here at BPN. For sure. I mean, it's crazy.

The other thing that's frustrating is it almost all feels manufactured to get that reaction from you. And then the real frustrating thing is just as soon as I stop paying too close attention, then I get mad at myself and into like a shame storm of like, why am I getting tied up in this? And, you know, they'll always say like people that get too passionate about politics in particular. It's almost like shows like a lack of intelligence that you can't see that like it's all

a distraction. Like, you know, it's just noise. Like if this guy wins it, well, that guy wins and you realize like 99% of the things that affect you aren't going to change no matter who these people are. It's all the same people. When your wife was diagnosed with cancer, did you find that

that gave you more tunnel vision and all the noise around you kind of dissipated? Oh, definitely. It was the only thing I could think about and focus on. And the one thing that was a little frustrating is my wife's not like

on the same kind of like healthy mission that I'm on. And she's like, oh, everything in moderation. And I'm like, we can't buy any of these processed foods. And she's like, you know, her attitude is like kind of like her parents. Like, oh, we've been eating this stuff for years. It's not.

I go, yeah, but it's not the same as it was a year ago. Look at it as years ago. Look at the difference from 2000 to 2026. If you just look at any ingredients in the cabinet, the ingredients have changed dramatically. Like I saw a thing like Reese's peanut butter cups. Like let's say, used to have 10 ingredients. Now it's got like 50.

And the numbers are probably wrong. But like as an example, they've added so many food additives. And my wife just can't be bothered. And it's like, it's definitely a source of frustration because I'm like, don't buy this stuff anymore. Anything that lives in the shelf for more than a week, I don't want it in here. What's also crazy is the, the U.S. versions of these foods compared to other international countries. It's a perfect example of how I get frustrated about things that I can't control where I'm like, this is all bullshit. How can we have these?

Like red, not that I'm a big, like, I don't know enough about science, but like red dies. Why is it okay for the U.S.? But in Canada, you can't get that. In Europe, you can't get that. Yeah. And then my wife would be like, oh, you're being a conspiracy theorist. She's just not into it. It just drives me crazy.

But I try to pick my battles. Yeah, it's a concern for sure. Definitely. So what's the goal for Ken Rydon? Like, where are you trying to get to in the next five, ten years? Good question. I am probably in the best place emotionally I've been in possibly in my whole life coming through the thing, the health skills.

with my wife and now getting through to the other side. This book has been the, this on March 10th will be the culmination of a lot of like work, anticipation and just getting that out into the world will be like crossing the finish line of like one of the biggest endurance events I've ever taken on. It's been such like a labor of love. So I'm looking forward to getting that out. I would love to do some more speaking in the, in the coming year and years to follow. Like I really enjoy sharing my story and using examples of the things that I've been some of the characteristics and behaviors I've been to employ in my own life to kind of get through some of the challenges that I've faced and that's what I would say the book is really it's less about someone telling you what to do

like a self-help book and it's more an example of like hey if you're thinking about making a career change getting sober taking on some physical challenges starting a family adopting a child I tell you how I did all these things in the book. And it might not be the right way for you, but there's examples in here of how a very average person can do extraordinary things. And I've never been like an elite athlete by any means. I played Division III football and hockey in college.

I was no threat to get a Division I scholarship in any sport. But when I got sober, I just made a conscious decision that I was not going to be mediocre at life anymore. And it just being mediocre and being average sucked. And even if the only thing you weren't mediocre at was effort, which is what I tell my kids all the time. When they go to their own sports events, football, lacrosse, they play a little bit of everything. The little one wrestles and does jiu-jitsu. And I'm like, the only thing, because, you know, they definitely feel pressure.

And I'm not a crazy sports dad. But they certainly feel pressure to, like, perform in front of me because of the things that I've done, which kind of bums me out. But I'm like, I say to my wife, I'm like, what can I do? I stand as far away as I can. I try not to like do anything except in courage. But I always tell them there is going to be one person in this game that everyone can see is trying harder than everyone else. And he could be the worst person. You could have two left feet. But if you're the one out there trying the hardest, we all know who it is. And there's nothing to stop you from being that person. And everyone appreciates having that guy on his team. Like you can be that person today. And that's what we always talk about. And that's what I try to emphasize. So.

going forward, I would love to just continue to be on the journey. I'm on, do the things I love doing, spend time with my family, enjoy the fact that we're all healthy. And I think a lot of times people get caught up in these like big monumental goals of like, I want to go to the, and all of those things are noble. But it's like in terms of the physical challenges, like I've done the things that I feel like I needed and wanted to do. and now I just have some question marks

about what's this next chapter of my life look like and in a lot of ways I'm still defining what those success metrics look like but I'm excited to just like be alive, be healthy. I'm probably gonna start my like spiritual journey much to my wife's happiness and my kids are into it too like my daughter loves going to church.

Like she loves it. She's very social but she just likes going there. She likes to write scripture on. or like pin up board in her room and stuff. And it's all so strange to me because I didn't grow up like that. So seeing your kids do those kind of things, you'll see, you're in for a treat. Every time you think that, oh, once the kids get out of diapers, once they get to, this is going to get easier, this is going to get easier.

And then you just realize, nope, you're on to the next set of challenges. Then they're like, oh, they're having disputes with their friends. And you live and die with their emotions. You're only as happy as the saddest kid. And now my daughter is going to start driving in July. And then when I say she's a bad driver, that would be an understatement. She drives the golf cart. And I'm like, how is this kid going to drive a car?

I told my wife, I go, I have to buy a Tesla with full self-driving. I go, I cannot let her drive a car. It's a scary thought. Oh, dude. But it's just the whole thing is crazy because, you know, one day she's a baby. The next day she's like, you know, dad, can you take milk to drive? I got to get some practice. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is going too fast.

It goes super slow when they're babies, and then it just accelerates and it just gets faster every year. one of my good friends is Pastor Lyle Phillips out in East Nashville at Legacy Church. I would love to connect you with him. Please do. I think you guys would really get along.

And he gets after it in the gym and runs. I've had him on the podcast. Just a really good guy. No, I'd love to. Please connect me. I think you enjoy connecting with him. Love it. I was recently listened to a podcast and your book and story reminds me of this concept.

It's a difference between creating the life you want and managing the life that you have. Like you so easily could have just managed the life that you had growing up. And it's like here's my upper limit, my lower limit, my left to my right limits. I'm just going to stay in this box. That's right. And operate here.

I'm just going to manage what I've been given and what I have. Perfect description. And then there's people who go and create the life. life they want. And you have to take these massive risks. And sometimes it's going to feel like you're losing everything. And you might lose everything in the process. But you can either manage life you have or create the life that you want.

And I think you're a great example of doing that. And you know what's funny? Like when you, if you had told me when I started this journey of like working for myself and doing things I wanted to do, I was scared shitless. Just like anyone listening to this who would like a lot of time Wall Street, a lot of times Wall Street guys will reach home. Like, how did you make this shift? because that type of job is like handcuffs because like and listen life isn't all about money but just to put this in perspective

like I could easily work on a trading desk right now make $2 million a year and just cover of clients and come in and do this but I'm going to be on that desk for eight to ten hours a day I'm going to get a few weeks off a year but like if you think about it in those terms you're a prisoner you're going to get this amount of money in exchange for your giving up your time and in your focus or I can chase the dreams that I have for myself. I'm running this management agency. I'm doing speaking stuff. I'm doing some brand deals.

I'm just trying to like figure out my way. And I could make a lot less money. I mean, things go wrong. I could make no money. But I have come to the conclusion that I want to control my own destiny. And if it means making less money, and I have friends that are like, I had a friend who was a CEO at Deutsche Bank. He was probably making $10 million a year.

And he had been contemplated. leaving and starting something in the health and wellness space, which he did. He's bought a complex up in the Berkshires and hosts events and everything. And at one point I said to him, I go, dude, I promised you, you have 10 to 100 times more money than I do. Do you think you're happier than me? Because he's always been like admired the things that I've done. And he's into endurance sports.

And he's like, no, you seem like you're much happier than I was. I said, you're killing yourself so you can take your family to the fourth season in the Caribbean, and I have young kids and I go, okay, I'm driving. Instead of going to the four seasons in Turks and Cicos, I'm driving to Santa Rosa Beach down in their day. And I go, I promise you, my kids and your kids had the same quality of time. My kids see the beautiful water in the gulf. They're like staying in a nice house with a pool.

I've spent like 10 grand, you spent 100 grand. My kids don't know the difference. And neither do I. It's a state of mind. You think you need to be living this life and keeping up with the Joneses. And I go, as soon as you let go of what other people think of how you're living and do the things that you want to do, and he quit his job and bought this facility. And he's doing that now.

And that's what I say to people is, if you're waiting for the stars to align and the time to be right to make a move, you're going to wait until hell freezes over. You have to make the time right. And you have to not be afraid to lose. It's just like these challenges that you and I have both undertaken. Like you could easily go to the Ironman, get a flat tire, throw up on the run, and realize, like, I'm, I can. can't finish. And then you're like, oh my God, how am I going to tell people I shit the bed at this race? Like I did the high rocks in Boston and just humiliated myself. When I was thinking, I'm going to smash everyone and break the world record. And I was so embarrassed. But I thinking you're probably

like this too. I was like, I can either like wallow in this and cry like a baby or I can just like turn on the camera and to the people that were watching and be like, okay, I got completely smashed and humiliated. Here's what happened. Not an excuse. Just a rundown of the facts. And what you realize is that the people that like you and care about you are much more, not impressed, but they're much more like in your corner when they realize you're just like everyone else. You can't win all the time. And you learn much more about yourself when you lose.

And you learn a lot about people when they're faced with difficulties and embarrassment. And that's what life is. If you couldn't lose, why would you go and do it? And that's kind of like the theme of the book is like, if you're afraid to do these things, then you probably shouldn't do them. There has to be a little bit of fear. But if that's going to control your actions, then maybe you're better off keeping that job that you have and letting someone else control your destiny and realize you're either working on making your own dreams come true or someone else's.

I was listening to Tony Robbins podcast this past week actually. And he was talking about two of the things, there are multiple things that we need in our life to be fulfilled and happy and successful. And two of the things are contrasting. We need certainty, but we also need uncertain. Yes. When you go after a big goal, it's like, I'm certain like I can put in the work, but I'm uncertain that I can really achieve this huge, ambitious goal. And that's what makes it so fun and fulfilling.

It's like the chase for, can I actually get here? So now we put in all the work to set myself up for success for this massive risk. I'm not going to take it by chance. Yeah. And I can promise you that if you, take the chance in believe in yourself and start your own venture of some kind the rewards and the fulfillment that you feel when you succeeded chasing your own dreams versus working for someone else is like night and day if you're working in that wall street job

and you get a two million dollar bonus awesome great but you still know that they essentially own you you wanted that that that money train to continue you're going to stay there but when you take the leap and you make uh x whatever amount you like working for yourself there's nothing more rewarding than that to think, I created this. But you don't get that feeling without the risk of thinking, oh my God, if this doesn't work, I am in a bad spot. And I use that example a lot, especially with my youngest who does wrestling, who wrestles.

I say to him, dude, if you are afraid to get out there and lose and get embarrassed and get pinned, you're never going to get to be the champ. Because the only way to get better is to wrestle people that are better. And when you wrestle people that are better, you're going to get pinned. And it's going to be embarrassing. but it happens to every the best wrestler in the world went through this.

You don't just show up at a wrestling gym or a jiu-jitsu gym and kick the shit out of everyone. You get humbled and humiliated and feeling downtrodden but the people that like they say in jiu-jitsu or any martial martial is the difference between a white belt and a black belt

is the black belt never stopped coming back. And that's the truth of life is like if you're afraid to get beat then don't even get in the ring because people get beat. Mike Tyson, if you read any of the stuff on him, him like he in training when he the first day went to customados jimmy got in there with the guy um i

forget his name the guard who brought him from the prison and he was sparring and mike started going hard and then the kid started light the guy started lighten him up and the point is he could have been like oh my god this is a dangerous sport i'm getting the crap beat out of me and my nose is bleeding or you could be like damn it how did he do that i want to learn how to do that to someone else and you lean into that and figure out a way to learn those skills yourself but you know very quickly a lot about someone when they face those kind of like when you're completely overmatched either in a combat sport a running race when you're like with someone who's head and shoulders better than you and you're like how is a person that much superior to me at this activity you either then want that or you're like

I'm never going to get there and you give up yeah that's why one of my favorite quotes is pride is your greatest enemy humility is your greatest friend yep because as soon as you believe you're on top and you're staying on top. Yeah. You'll get humbled and push to the bottom. That's right. And it's happened to me many times. And I'm sure you know that feeling too.

I was telling Trude Haynes. He was like, I feel great going into this race and you didn't have the race he wanted. And I didn't want to tell him this before. But my wife will say to me, how you feel for this race or that race? And she goes, anytime you feel like you're going to kill, I'm so confident. I've done everything. She's like, I get so nervous. But when you're like, I've done everything, I don't know.

I don't know if I've done enough. I'm nervous. She's like, I know you come through in those events. Anytime you're overconfident, I get nervous. And, dude, it's almost like clockwork. It's happened every time. It's a great observation. Before Berlin in like 23, I was like, I am going to effing smash everyone.

And I was. I was in the best shape. Because after I almost died at that race, two weeks later, I ran a 229 in Chicago with only 14 days of recovery. And I was like in the medical tent, like, practically ready to die. I went out super hard with the second group of pro women. I started standing on this. I mean, I started like three people behind L.A. and Kipchogi. So they take off.

You know, the first mile always goes out hard. And then there's the second group of the one group of pro women, then a second group. And I'm like right on the back. And they're going through every mile like a metronome, 530, 530, 530, which is about nine seconds faster than the fastest I've ever run per mile. And I feel unbelievable because I'm in shape. But it's also scorching hot. And I'm like, you know, with that feeling when you're like, I'm completely saturated with sweat. There's one thing when you're sweating.

There's another thing when you're like, your shoes are soaked. And I'm like, wow, I'm like moving. I got to 17 miles. Dude, I was seeing cross-eyed. My vision was blurred. I was going backwards. People were smashing into my back running past me. I got in a shouting match with some guy because he almost ran me over as he passed me.

I crossed the finish line at 2.35. And I mean, I was, I thought I was going to die. I literally, I couldn't see. I crossed the finish line kind of fainted. I was like, medic. But the point is, I was in such good shape. I just made stupid mistakes early. And then two weeks later, I run 229 in Chicago with basically no real recovery.

But that's an example is I was so confident going into it. I was like, I'm killing everyone. Overly confident. Overly confident. And after that, I never got that overly confident ever again. But I had done that a few times in Iron Man's as well. You learn from it. Oh, you learn quickly.

Like you said, you get humbled very quickly. And, man, I was almost inconsolable. I was telling Trude Haynes this the other day. After that race in Berlin, I called my wife. And I'm like, dude, I was a blubbering idiot. She's like, are you crying? I'm like, I'm so humiliated. And she's like, in front of who?

I'm like, myself, I knew that I could do this and I didn't. I made stupid mistakes. And I'm like so regretful. I can't undo what I just did. And it's going to take me a year to come back and do this race, which I haven't done yet, but I would like to at some point. But I tell that story, only to say, like, that's how deeply I care about the things that are important to me.

And those things are important to me. So if you think that you want to take on some of these challenges and you're just going to show up willy-nilly and like kick ass, it's like no. Like my whole being is poured into like these things like on a relative base. I mean, I do what I take care of all my responsibilities. But on that day, that was my responsibility. That was my goal. That was my focus for like 12 weeks of training, you know. And obviously not every day and it's focused on just training.

but for an hour and a half to two hours a day, I focused on what I wanted to do here, and it didn't work out. Man, that was a painful feeling. But Ken, I love what you're doing, man. And super proud of you for putting this book together. Thank you, brother. I appreciate you.

Meaningful lessons from a lot of hard over the course of a lifetime. And I'm excited for you to get the sound of the world and share it. Well, thank you, brother. And I appreciate all your motivation. regarding the spiritual journey, and I look forward to connecting with your friend in Nashville. And again, thanks for having me on for the third time. Honestly, I think you played a significant role in helping get this book out into the world because doing shows like yours really put me kind of on the map in terms of social media

and letting people know about my story and my journey and that helped bring this book to fruition. So thanks again. Absolutely. Until next time. Yeah, man. Awesome. Thank you, brother. Thanks, man.