The Nick Bare Podcast - 170: The Sacrifices Required to Build Something That Lasts | Bailey O'Brien

Episode Date: April 20, 2026

In this episode, I sit down with BPN Athlete from the land down under Bailey O’Brien to talk about why he quit CrossFit, building a gym, protecting its culture, and making the kind of sacrifices that shape who you become. We unpack the early days that were long days filled with hustle, choosing marriage over personal ambition, why your inner circle matters, and what it takes to build something meaningful for the long haul.CHAPTERS:00:37 Austin, Ultra Weekend, and First Impressions03:00 Australia to Austin: Different Pace, Same Values08:50 Backstory10:24 Building Be All In With Purpose17:59 Why Consistency Always Wins23:59 Letting Go of the CrossFit Dream31:40 Mentors, Brotherhood, and the Inner Circle37:34 What Modern Masculinity Really Looks Like41:39 How Strong Leaders Build Strong Culture45:57 Hiring People Who Take Ownership49:52 Scaling Standards Without Losing the Standard53:24 Trusting the Team When You Step Away59:49 Leadership Requires Sacrifice01:07:13 Going All In Without Losing Yourself01:15:51 When the Platform Gets Bigger, So Does the Responsibility01:18:00 Building a Personal Brand for the Long Game01:28:08 What’s NextFOLLOW Bailey:@baileyobrien_ORDER MY BOOK HERE: ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Go-One-More-Intentional-Life-Changing/dp/1637746210FOLLOW:Become a BPN member FOR FREE - Unlock 25% off FOR LIFE ⁠https://www.bareperformancenutrition.com/collections/performance-nutritionIG: ⁠instagram.com/nickbarefitness/⁠YT: ⁠youtube.com/@nickbarefitnessThis podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal [health or profession] advice. Bare Performance Nutrition (BPN) is not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. This podcast is not intended to replace professional medical advice.This podcast may not be republished without the written consent of Bare Performance Nutrition (BPN)

Ladies and gentlemen, today on the podcast, BPN athlete coming from Australia. Bailey O'Brien, what's up, brother? What's up, mate? Thank you for having me on. I'm very excited, a little nervous, but I'm keen to jump in. Why are we nervous? I don't know. I feel like there's a couple people listening.

I do a couple of podcasts back home, but none with the same audience size of yours, but no, I'm more excited than anything else. So we'll start with some icebreakers. Okay. Ease me in. So you've been in Austin for how many weeks now? Nearly three. And your wife is running the going more ultra, GUNM Ultra in two days. How are you guys feeling about that?

We're feeling, I feel excited. She feels excited. She's a little bit nervous. She's never ran anything longer than a marathon. I was initially meant to do the race, been a little bit injured. So it probably wasn't the best idea to go. do my longest running event ever. But one of her goals for the year was to do her first ultramarathon. So she kind of jumped in to replace me and yeah, she's going to kill it. I'm excited

for it. It's going to be awesome. It's going to be so good. It's going to be a completely different experience this year compared to last year. I think, you know, we're 48 hours away from knowing, but there's more eyeballs on the race this year. There is some real, a little. elite talent coming in to throw down. Last year, the race went 235 miles between Kim and Kendall. This year, depending on how these runners are feeling and the weather, I mean, he'd go 450 plus miles. It's hard to fathom, isn't that?

It is. I mean, it's days and days and days of running. Something that makes this year's race different from last year's. Last year is the first year we put on the last man's standing style. Ultra. This year we are now a qualifier for Biggs Backyard, which is the world championship of backyard racing. So the people who perform very well here will go perform on the world stage months later. I hope Mattie's listening. This could be you girl. He's got to lock in. It's it's anyone's win. You know, like I think a lot of times with these races,

people try to project the top three to five runners and you never know who's going to show up and who's going to have a good day and who's going to have a bad day. What's the weather looking like? Straight rain. Straight rain.

I don't throw a big signer in the works, do you think? I mean, I think it's going to... This style race is so unpredictable on its own. The weather is just like another curb ball. Of deciding and determining who really wants the win. But being in all things,

in the last two weeks. What do you love about it? I see a lot of parallels between Austin and Australia. It's very fitness-oriented, very high-energy. People are go-getters. It's been there's good food, which Australia, I would say, has some of the best food in the world as well. The fitness scene is great.

But I think for me, just being around the BPN team has probably been the highlight. I feel like I've got really good connections and relationships here, and it's hard living across the other side of the globe to have many touch points throughout the year. But having nearly a month year all up has just been and having where you're not necessarily on a tight schedule the whole time where you're having to go from event

to meeting to whatever has just allowed for some, yeah, really good connection to come through. So, yeah, it's been a fun couple weeks. But yeah, I feel like the pinnacle of our trip here is yet to come. Yeah. I'm most fascinated by other, countries and cultures. I haven't done as much international travel as I would have hoped up until the 35 years of life

that I've lived so far, but much of my life has been dedicated to building this business. And Steph and I always talk about how in the future we want to do more international travel. I spent nine months in South Korea with the military, and that was a great experience, just being submerged into a completely different culture and people. and way of living. What are some of the contrasts of living in Australia compared to the US that you've noticed since being here? Well, we can't sit in the back of a truck and drive around the city in Australia. More rules, more regulations? Yeah, more rules, more regulations. Dang. It is, there's no guns. It's very, there's a lot of similarities, a lot of differences.

But yeah, culturally, it's just, there is quite a few differences in terms of just what the the lifestyle, the leadership is like. But especially with Austin, I'm sure it's different in a lot of parts of America, but Austin has quite a few similarities, which makes us feel somewhat at home. We're staying in like an Airbnb, which is an apartment very similar to what we have in Sydney. And so, yeah, we've been able to find a routine somewhat similar than what we have at home, which has been nice. Yeah.

Australia is my list. It's the nicest country in the world. I'm going to say it, man. It's a long way away. But we kind of understand that. And so when we travel to the U.S. or traveled to Europe, like we kind of are prepared for that. But yeah, if you're willing to make the trip, I'll show you what we're all about. I love that.

I was telling you dinner last night because we all went to Peacock, which is one of my favorite restaurants in Austin. I'm glad to have had the opportunity to share a meal with you there. It's in the proper hotel. It's Mediterranean food. I mean, we crushed food last night. But I was telling you how I'm good friends with Jess Pryles, who is the founder of hardcore carnivore seasonings. It's seasonings that being the family used on all of our meats. She's from Australia.

And she was telling me about Tasmania. I think it's, correct me if I'm wrong, it's on the southern tip of Australia. Yeah, it's actually removed from the mainland. Oh, it is. There's a body of water between it. But yeah, it's part of the country still. She was telling me how high quality all the meat is. is in Australia, but specifically Tasmania, where everything has to be, I believe, grass-fed,

all the cattle have to be grass-fed in that part of the country. It's a wild difference. Yeah. Tasmania is the only state I haven't been to in Australia. But as a whole, the quality of the food, I was speaking to Dan Churchill about it last week. But our farming and the soil that we have and just the environment for, yeah, production of crops and meat is very good. And then, yeah, it's very, sometimes I find in America, it's like you've got to kind of source out the good quality spots or the healthier spots,

if that's what you're into, where I feel like in Australia it's very health conscious demographic and environment. So, yeah, I'm a little bit biased, of course, but I feel like Australia alongside the beaches and some of the last that we got there is some of the nicest in the world. One of the things that Steph and I were talking about on the way home from dinner last night, that we still can't fathom is the fact that your wife Maddie's family farm to get from one side of the other is a four-hour drive. Yeah, we were talking about it this morning as well. That's crazy. A lot of acreage, yeah. And it's crossed multiple different farms. They have the biggest tomato shed or in the whole southern hemisphere. They've got like crops, they've got cattle,

they've got dairy, everything. It's impressive. Yeah. I was chat GPTing this morning because we have a five-acre lot that we're going to build a house on eventually. And I was just curious how far the perimeter of a five-acre lot is, as I'm planning out where I'm going to run in the future. And I was hoping it was going to be further than actually was. It was, on average, 0.35 of a mile, the perimeter of a five-acre lot. just thinking about the epic races you could host on a property that spans a four-hour drive. Yeah, we spoke about her grandma or her grandparents' house. They have this paddock that's exactly 4.2 miles, which is the same as that we were like,

should we host an old marathon in Australia? It's pretty rural. It's a middle of nowhere, but yeah, we might have to think about it. That'd be awesome. So tell me, who is Bailey O'Brien? Give me your pitch before we dive into some of the meat. Okay. Bailey O'Brien is, I'm a husband.

I'm a gym owner, an entrepreneur, an athlete. And I guess like, yeah, what I would classify as, yeah, somewhat of a hybrid athlete, more so in the fact that not only do I like lift and run, but I like to do it all. And I think we'll get into it in a little bit. But, yeah, one of the reasons I was so attracted to BPN and your leadership style is the ability to do multiple things. And I guess I'm trying to kind of create my own path down under and impact people in a positive way and leave this world better than I found it. What's the hybrid athlete or hybrid training model look like in Australia? I would, again, similar to the fitness scene down under is

like, is some of the best in the world. Why do they call it down under? Because it's down under. I got it now. It's just what we, we're commonly known by. I would never really say that to an Australian, but I kind of say the same way when I come to the US, I say good-day just for fun because it throw a shimp on the barbie. Like you just kind of play into it a little bit. But the fitness scene, especially the functional fitness scene is like, I guess I would say Australia is almost like the industry leader in terms of how prevalent it is, how much variety there is and the different styles of what we're doing, whether it be CrossFit or Hierox or functional or bodybuilding there is such an array of different avenues and and different businesses that are

popping up left right and center. So the gym I own with my wife Maddie is called Beallin Fitness and we just have a one standalone. It's not a franchise but we've had that for nearly five years now. Before that I was working one-on-one PT's out of my garage and yeah, we absolutely love what we do. Was the gym B-all in? Was the gym created and built because of the personal training business that you started? Or was there a bigger vision with the gym from the start? No. So from the start, I left, I'd worked at a bunch of different gyms just as a trainer and was kind of building experience and finding my own style and my own way.

And eventually I decided, hey, I feel like I've got a knack for this. I'm going to kind of go out my own and do my own thing, but wanted to start small. Just did one-on-ones. And through that one-on-one, I was able to really refine my craft and have pretty good impact on my clients and the word kind of spread a little bit. We started running classes in like a primary school underneath a cola and we're getting over 100 people to come on a Saturday morning and then from Monday to Friday I would PT one and one and I was completely booked out for 12 months and I was like, all right, it's time that we look to find a space and at that point in time it was Bayfit,

which was basically just Bailey O'Brien personal training. It was just me, sole trader. And it just grew really quickly. So when we found, or we secured our first lease in our first facility, we kept the name because we kind of had so much momentum and didn't want to change it because, yeah, people recognize the name and were becoming drawn to it.

But nearly two years ago we rebranded it to be all in because we wanted to be something bigger than just one person or tied so heavily to me. We have such a good group of coaches now. And we wanted to have a greater impact that

expanded past our four walls. And when we did rebrand, we kind of, and BPN had a lot to do with this. We kind of looked to BPN and go on more as like, I guess, the industry leader in terms of brand and culture and team that we wanted to build. And we kind of decided who are we and what are we trying to do? And when we listed out all of our, all my personal values of what I wanted the gym to be recognized, we kind of just were spitballing in. And one of them was go all in. if you're going to do something, we do it well. And then Maddie said, why don't we just make it be all in, which is basically the exact same.

And B-A-I can now be the acronym for BFIP. So we can kind of keep our trademark name. We don't have to change too much, but it very much changed our branding and our messaging of who we were speaking to and what our brand was about. We had some great conversations at dinner last night talking about the parallels between, you know, building BPN and you and Maddie building the gym.

and part of the conversation that I've been reflecting on is, you know, BPN in the early days, and I'd love to hear kind of your thoughts on this and what you guys have experienced, but BPN in the early days when we first got started, I transitioned out of the military. None of us were married. We didn't have kids. We didn't have families. We didn't have many life responsibilities. Our entire life was dedicated to BPN in training and work.

And I remember back in the day, we were also bought into building this thing that people were showing up to work earlier and earlier and earlier. You know, we started showing up at 7.30. And then someone would show up at 7.15. And the next day, someone would show up at 7. You got to a point where people show up like 5.30 in the morning. And I actually had to enforce a rule of you can't come into work before 8.30. Yeah. Because people kept trying to come earlier and earlier.

and then we'd work our butts off down the day. 4 p.m. would hit. We'd all stop what we were doing, going to the gym and train for 2 plus hours. I mean, me and Joe, I remember, would go for a 7-mile run, come back, hit pre-workout, wait 30 minutes, do an hour strength training session.

We'd all wrap up our workout, and then we'd go for dinner. And by the time we got home at night, it was 9 p.m. And we'd run it back the next day, over and over and over again. But over the years, people got into relationships

and got married and started having kids and families and the culture, I don't want to say changed, but the expectations of our routines and our schedules and how much time we were spending together changed. I don't wish those old days were here today because I love my life now. I love being a family man and being married and having children and what my routine and schedule looks like now.

But those earlier days, when life responsibilities were limited, were really, really fun. And the camaraderie and the brotherhood and the sisterhood and just the culture that you form during those years, I believe it's very foundational to what the brand and the business is built upon. I couldn't imagine trying to do that same thing, building starts. in this season of life. It'd be much different. So how have you guys experienced that with the gym,

the community, the culture, the people that you work with? Yeah, I can relate on so many levels. And I think people love to be a part of the process. They like to see you growing and chasing it. And I was the same once we had that gym. For me, I didn't take, like, didn't lend a single cent of money. I worked really hard to,

to have good savings. Then when I opened that gym, every piece of equipment, every dollar of rent was like just off my own bat. And I didn't pay myself a dollar for those first few years because I was just so hell-bent on making this a reality and making it work. And people were kind of seeing that.

They were drawn to that. They could feel that passion. And they wanted to be a part of that and saying we would, I'd work all morning, training my lunch break. work all afternoon, then train afterwards, and then on a Friday night, we'd all go get dinner and we'd have 20 or 30 people at a restaurant eating pizza or burgers or whatever. And those, I guess, like, I look at it as kind of like the glory days and like the ones I will look back on and think, oh, that was so fun. And I do miss that a little bit. I still, we still have very much

an arm of that. But as we're getting older, we're traveling around the world more. We have more responsibilities and aspects to life. We don't do. that as much. But when we were in that season, it was the best. But I very much understand that every season has a reason. You just got to be in it whilst you're in it and not be looking forwards or backwards. And then as time moves on, you just got to move with it. Those early years that are so much fun. So fun. It's so, you often think, yeah, it's so hard to have hindsight, but you think you're, and you still are stressed, not to discredit things. But yeah, in, you look back and like, oh man, that was good. And as you get bigger and have more responsibilities and you realize,

I should have capitalized on realizing what I had whilst I had it. But yeah, the build, just like anything, is like the journey to get there is almost always more fun than the outcome when you get to the mountain top. Yeah. I was talking to someone the other day. I just thought about this. And they were tell me that, you know, this message that I share on consistency and commitment, it's unrelatable because I've achieved some type of level of success in the way that they see it. So it's easy for someone who has achieved some sort of level of success to credit their success to commitment and consistency. And I sat with this for a little bit. I was like, yeah, but the only reason you're able to achieve some sort of level of success is the commitment and consistency.

And just because of when you finally do achieve some sort of win, it isn't just stop. It compounds. You keep practicing those rhythms and routines because it's what works. So I find that the early days are really challenging because you're trying to build these rhythms and routines of commitment and consistency and discipline in your life. And when you first get started trying to incorporate those into a life, a new life, it is challenging because it's difficult, it's different. But once it becomes a rhythm, once it becomes a routine, it's just a part of everything

that you do. So the results, just like investing money into the stock market in a good year, produce positive returns. over and over and over again. Yeah. You get the dividend from the return of what you are depositing and investing into. Yeah. And I, that initial, to build those rhythms and to establish that routine or consistency takes like a lot of time and we speak a little bit about like the long game and playing

the long game as opposed to the short game. And there's no guarantee how much time that will take. but if you're committed to seeing that initial process through, which is the hardest part to build a member base, build a supplement company, build a community, whatever it is, even online or following. Like if you can do the hard yards, then you can reap the rewards later on.

But those hard yards are hard for a reason and you can't have one without the other and it takes a lot of sacrifice to create those rhythms. Or for me as like when I first started Bayfit, I was like a 20-year-old kid and a lot of the 20-year-old kids are going out partying or doing other things for me to kind of go against the grain and be like, actually, no, I'm going to wake up early

and try and open a gym. It's kind of like initially people are asking why or they think you're too good for them or they don't understand it until you see past those first few months and you find a point where actually a couple people start coming and then you can build off that. But yeah, those early days and build.

that rhythm, there's no other way to do it. There's no magic quick fix without just being making the right decision day after day and doing it for a long period of time. Yeah, I didn't take a paycheck from BPN until 2017. I started BPN in 2012. Yeah. So I worked on the brand for five years before taking any money out of the business. Now, a lot of people can't do that because they have responsibilities that they have to financially show up for. But I'm grateful that I was in the military when I was building BPN. And it got to a point where when I transitioned out of the military in 2017, I went all in to BPN. That's also the year that BPN scaled past seven figures. And I could finally pay myself a little bit. I put myself on salary for what the military,

exactly what the military was paying me at the time. But there is time that you have to deposit into. Knowing, praying, hoping that it's going to pay off at some point, but not having the security of knowing it absolutely will, but just believing in it. Yeah. There will never be anything that is guaranteed is never going to be worth the fulfillment when you finally get there.

and I'm a believer like you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, but you've got to shoot it if you want to score. And the only way you fail is if you never shoot, but there is always that risk attached to it for sure, and especially if you're shooting big shots or you have big goals. But yeah, I feel the exact same way you take that risk. Like my own mom told me, hey, don't open this gym. Stay in the garage.

It's safe there. There's no rents. Like you can do this for a longer period. But when you kind of have ambition, you know what you want, regardless of what the consequence is, you almost have this sense of delusion that I'm going to make it work no matter what, no matter what I have to do to get there. And then you just work your ass off. And then for those first two years, like I was sleeping like four to five hours a night because I'm trying to, was trying to go pro as a cross-ed athlete at that same window. So I'm training

four to five hours a day whilst working eight to ten hours a day. And I know in that window, I knew full well that this is not maintainable long term. I cannot do this forever and I'm not going to want to do this forever. But right now I'm young, I've got the energy, I've got the ambition. I'm going to try and set myself up. So one day when I do get married, when I do have kids, when I do whatever, I don't know what it's going to be, but I want to have the foundation set. And now I'm kind of in this next chapter. I just got married last year. We'll have kids in the next couple of years that, okay, life looks a little bit different now. But I'm so thankful for those first few years where I just kind of went crazy.

And I still probably am catching up on a little bit of sleep deprivation even now. But without those years, I don't have these years. What made you abandon the pursuit of pro cross-fed athlete? Yeah, well, great question. Initially, it was like basketball

was my first love, my first dream. I met Maddie at a national tournament when we were 17. And then we did our long-distance relationship for a few years. We both were looking to go college in the US. That was kind of my dream always, then play pro after that, but we had offers in different parts of the country. And then, so we ended up not going to the States, which was like

the biggest thing ever that my whole childhood to get to this point was about going to college. Like every mom didn't let me miss any, like the last day of school, none of the kids went, but I would always go because like your attendance and what your report card looks like will impact with you get an academic scholarship as well as athletic. I always had to, like, it had to I was never the most talented, like, academically as well as athletically, but I worked so hard to set myself up in this pivotal moment. We didn't end up going because we stayed in the country and stayed together as a relationship. And then I kind of got into the gym thing once I started to stop basketball, found CrossFit because I could no longer go to basketball training because

I was working mornings and nights. And then with CrossFit, I was like, all right, this is my new thing. I can train in the middle of the day. I can train late at night on my own time and I'm going to try and be a professional athlete in this discipline. Did that for four or five years. And then two years ago, Mani said, hey, we're getting married next year. And to be any type of professional athlete that's a very selfish endeavor,

you can still love and care for other people, but to be one of the best in the world, you have to really sacrifice a lot of things. And she was bearing, I guess, the burden of that in our business and our relationship. And she just said, hey, I don't know if this is the best decision for us moving forward if you continue to chase this dream of making the CrossFit games.

I'd just spent four years trying to build there, two years at regionals. I was in like the top 10 for the open and quarterfinals and I was like, all right, I need to make the top three. I'm like right there. And then my whole life kind of got flipped upside down because it made me reevaluate what are my priorities. And so that was like a tough pill to swallow. It took me a minute to comprehend that.

But once I kind of did make that adjustment, my whole life has changed and it's very much change for the better. Same way that I didn't go to college because of Maddie. And same way I didn't necessarily pursue the CrossFit endeavor, like because of that as well, she's like the top of the priority and everything falls like under that because I know that like that's like my life partner. And so that's something that's super important to me. But that is, yeah, the reason the CrossFit dream kind of came to an end. And then is where that was like around the same time that I've kind of stumbled across the BPN and yourself and I guess fell into this more hybrid approach. It's a very selfless and wise decision. How old were you at that point when you made that

decision? It would have been 24. A lot of people don't have the ability to look at that decision with a big picture perspective. It's really easy, especially for high achievers. athletes, performers to root all of their identity into a specific discipline. Whether that's, like, I'm a founder of this business. I'm an athlete. I am this or that.

That's what I was designed for. That's why I was created. That's why I was born. I am doing this. I will sacrifice every other part of my life because this is who I am. But to be able to come to that realization and conclusion and obviously still challenging hard, but to move past that,

it's a very mature decision, especially for someone in mid-20s. Yeah. It was hard for sure. I do think I've always tried to surround myself with people a little bit older than me or people who are where I want to be. And so I do, I guess, consider myself

quite mature for my age. And I'm always thinking of my... myself in five years. Like how is the decision I make right now going to impact myself in five years? And for me in that moment, although the blinkers were on and I was so single-minded about this one goal, I'm like, if I'm, I probably actually was like 25 or 26, but if I'm, when I'm 30, if I make the CrossFit games, like, is it worth potentially ruining this relationship or having something go wrong? Or when I'm 30, do I want to be married looking to have my first child? Like, what, what's going to give me more fulfillment or value in the long run.

And once you kind of weigh up those pros and cons, it's a pretty easy decision. But in that moment, when you've got those blinkers on, it's kind of like, you look at what the last four years are a waste. Like, what have I done to get here? But the same way that basketball, I once looked at that as, I guess, not a failure, but like I didn't see out what was the prophecy in my head of what I was meant to do. go to college play pro like it's all I wanted to do and you can kind of deem that of failure but the lessons I learned along that journey and then same in this next chapter I've kind of made me

the man that I am today and the values that I have and I feel like from those not failures but just challenges yeah it's very much shaped me and provided adversity that yeah shapes a lot of the decision making or leadership or how I operate business or relationships that I do today That's great. I don't know if I was explaining this to you over the last couple weeks you've been here. I was telling someone this story, but recently I switched from wearing a garment

to a old-school G-shock watch, which is being game-changing for my runs. I can't track my distance. I can't track my time. I can't track my heart rate. I can't track my pace. Nothing. I just run based off of time now and effort,

perceived effort. And I thought that it would change my relationship with running, which it has, but it's changed a whole lot more than that, which I didn't expect. It's been pretty wild to actually experience last couple weeks. But I was on a run late last week. And now that I don't track anything to my run, my mind can kind of just wonder naturally. And I was thinking on this one run. I was like, you know, if I train more, I could run faster. I could run further.

I could be a little bit more shredded. But does it make me a better leader for the people that I show up to on a daily basis? No. Does it make me a better husband? No. Does it make me a better father? No. Well, then, what's the point?

And I'm not saying getting fitter, faster. running further doesn't matter. It just depends on what are your priorities and goals at the moment in time. There was a point in my life where getting fitter, faster, running longer was a priority. Fitness, health, training, eating well, it's always a priority. But there's levels to it. And their sacrifice for where you spend time, there's opportunity costs of where you dedicate time, money, energy, resources, small pivot, but we,

We were talking last night about mentorship. And you briefly just brought it up here and how important it is to be surrounded by people, in our case, men who are leading us, who we look up to. And I have found that I benefit significantly when I'm surrounded by a lot of really strong men, but specifically older men. men in my life who have older children, who have built and sold businesses, who have navigated the complexities of marriage and life and learning from them, the mistakes they've made, lessons they've learned along the way. And I want to spend some time just talking about the power of having a really strong sound inner circle. We had hybrid boys week last week, was it two weeks ago.

These was two weeks ago. Yeah. And we had Joey, French, Luke, you, me, Jake, Dan Churchill. Just like, Dan's definitely going to call me out. I forget his name. He's definitely getting me there. I'm sorry, Dan. It was such a good time.

Being able to spend real quality time with some guys. who are pursuing similar goals in life, but who want to do it in the right way, who want to learn, who want to get better. What were some of your key takeaways from that week with the guys?

Yeah, I think. Because that was like your first exposure to being around a bunch of BPN athletes. Yeah, for sure. I've been to the HQ twice, but both have kind of been individual trips. It was awesome to kind of be around the team. And I guess, yeah,

around the guys as well. I'm super excited to come to Athletic Week where we meet with the whole team. But especially those group of boys, it was great to run. It was great to train. It was great to eat really good food. But like the connection we were able to kind of build across those three days on like a much deeper level was, yeah, something like I'll cherish forever. And it makes me really excited about the future. I feel very unified with this team. And yeah, I feel very, lucky to be a part of it. It was overall a great experience. I knew going into it,

it was going to be a fun time. We're going to train really hard. We're going to run a lot. Like you said, eat good food. But I was actually really surprised by some of the types of conversations we were having. It's really easy

for us as men to put on this tough outer shell. But I found that when you bring guys together in smaller groups, people will be vulnerable if you are vulnerable. And that's one of the approaches I take as a leader and a mentor. I see that as one of my gifts, but also responsibility is if I'm vulnerable around the guys like two weeks ago right away up front, it allows everyone else to be a little bit more vulnerable and share things that we're going through or working through.

and I just thought we got in some really deep, meaningful conversations that explored a lot of problems that some users are just dealing with on a regular basis. Yeah, I think it was, and like this group of guys have obviously looked up to yourself and through your content on YouTube, the podcast, and being around you, like, as I guess probably our primary mentor, we've learned through your experience.

And so we've, yeah, been able to shape our own leadership, and qualities and life decisions. Sometimes we've done exactly what you've done because it's worked well. Sometimes we've been able to avoid mistakes because you've shared what works and what didn't. And now I guess we're kind of in charge of leading this next generation of young men especially on the right path. It doesn't mean we don't have our own problems and it's really cool as people of influence or with platforms in those positions.

Sometimes it's hard to be vulnerable because you want to show strong. strength, which is important. You can still be strong, but I think, yeah, it is equally strong to be honest and be vulnerable and have those conversations. And like you said, that when you're around the right people, it makes it so much easier to do that. And it was really cool to, yeah, touch on some topics and explore different avenues and really get to know each other, find out what sets people on fire, but also find out their insecurities and we might share the same things. And, yeah, it was a really worthwhile experience. I'm very lucky that we've built intentionally a very positive culture at our gym at Beall Inn. So I do have some really good male counterparts around me

at all times, but it was, I feel like one of the takeaways from all the boys was to make sure that we do have a good group around us, no matter where we are in the world, because I feel like, yeah, strength in numbers is super powerful. And when you have the right intentions and are wanting to do things the right way, it has even more power behind it. I'm curious some of the observations you've had building a gym and building a strong culture. And as you think about the man you want to be for your wife and future kids, your family, how that's made you think about. the way you live your life, the way you show up, the way you lead. There's a John F. Kennedy quote that kind of sets the stage for, I think, where we're about to take this conversation.

And he said, do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men. And masculinity gets attacked a lot of times because there is toxic masculinity out there. I think a lot of people get masculinity wrong and what it means to be a man. And this is something I've been talking about more frequently because I believe there are a lot of weak excuses of men in the world. I'm a big fan of this pastor named Pastor Joby Martin. He has a great book, recent book called Stand Furman and Act Like Men. But he talks about the fact that there's a lot of boys in the world and a lot of boys who grew up to be dudes but never experience what it means to be a man. So what are you learning in this chapter of life as a leader in business, as a husband,

future father at some point, peer about leadership and what it means to be a man? Yeah, I think for me, I think I heard Matthew McConaughey say one time that to be a strong man is like to be a good man. but there's like a difference between being a nice guy and being a good man. A nice guy is not quite sure what he stands for, what he stands against. They get along, but they're kind of a chameleon. They don't, yeah, have values that they truly stand for. But a good man has ideals that he does stand for and does stand against. And when they are tested, a good man is not a nice guy.

And I feel like for me, it's, I'm, that's exactly how I try to approach my life. I try and be a good man. I have values that I stand for and I really uphold them. And I uphold them for myself primarily because you can never tell someone to do something that you wouldn't do yourself. And so that's how I kind of approach leadership for me, that I want to live and the values that I speak, but also hope to speak them. to empower and encourage others to do the same.

But I very much try not to my personal approach to tell anyone what to do, but more show them just how I'm going to live my life in hopes to encourage them to do the same. It's actually something we say here at BPN in terms of creating content is show don't tell. I think certain people respond to being told what to do. So there's two different types of leadership. there's pull and push.

And I have in front of me, one of John Maxwell's book, it's a 21 irrefutable laws of leadership. It's one of my favorite leadership books ever written. I've read it probably five plus times. And I reread it frequently because there's so many golden nuggets in there. There's 21, like golden nuggets. But I was listening to one of his podcasts months ago, talking about the difference between pull and push leadership.

and knowing when to implement these two types of leadership. Sometimes people need pushed. You tell them what they have to do, where they're going, go get this done. I'm going to push you to go do it. It's a directive. Sometimes people need pool leadership, where it's vision, aspiration, motivational.

This is where I'm going. Follow me if you want to go on the same path. and knowing when to use push versus pool leadership and who responds to what best and when is a skill that takes repetition and time and something that I'm trying to refine over time of knowing how certain people respond to push versus pool leadership. Yeah, I definitely think there's a right balance for sure. And there's especially within the gym culture that there's times where if we have our gym values, and people are not upholding them, I can uphold them as much as I want and lead by example.

But if they're going to go against them or create an atmosphere that's potentially toxic and against what we're trying to build in our culture, then that's when you've got to step in and get pushy and call people out privately and have that conversation. They're tough conversations to have. But if you don't stand for anything, then you stand for nothing. And then that culture, you can't complain about that. So, yeah, as much as I can, I try and lead by example and set the standard for my own community. But, yeah, there's times where you've got to step in and push back on things as well.

Over the years of building the gym, have you ever experienced times when toxic people were in the gym and you had to either invite them out or make corrective change? Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, our gyms, our gym's surrounded by like a one kilometer kind of walking, running loop with some fields. And if you see myself or Maddie, often myself going for like a walk with a member, it's like, oh, no, like they're having a conversation. And often we're not trying to be a dictator and kick people out. You know, we're trying to create a safe, positive environment. Often people who are being toxic or overly competitive are actually just. deeply insecure. So if you can try and get through to them and guide them and reassure them,

it's okay. You don't have to act a certain way or this and reassure them, hey, this is the environment we're trying to create. It's an opportunity to be a leader in this environment as opposed to just kicking them out as soon as they go against it. That's kind of how we go about it. But if that is not taken on board, then, yeah, we are a gym for, not for everyone. We like to welcome everyone in through our doors, but we also have values that we want to uphold to make sure that the experience for everyone when they're there, they feel safe, they feel happy and they feel like they're actually, like a lot of people come to our gym to reinvent themselves. They want a fresh start. It's a brand new community. They're not coming. It's not with their school friends.

It's not with their sporting team. This is a fresh start for them and we want them to feel safe enough to be exactly who they want to be and not be threatened or bothered by anyone else. That's like a big thing for us. It's something they don't teach you in Leadership 101. Yeah. Is what it feels like to have hard conversations with people. It's tough. It gets a little easier over time.

The more you do it, yeah. The more you do it, it becomes a muscle that just becomes stronger with repetition. I remember early days of BPN, some of those first. first hard conversations. I mean, I would stay up all the night before thinking about it. Yeah. Just the uncomfortableness of it. And I used to think when we were first building BPN that you lay out the foundation

and the vision and people come alongside you and all as well. You just build together. but I've learned the hard way that having one wrong person on board can be a cancer. It can be toxic. It can hold everyone else back. It can erode the culture overnight. First Corinthians 1533 says bad company corrupts good character. That couldn't be any more true.

So one of our responsibilities as leaders is to police the culture. Ensure that we have the right people in the right seats so that it contributes to the culture, the positivity, but doesn't negatively affect anyone else. How have you felt that in the gym space? Yeah, the main reason we haven't franchised, opened multiple facilities when potentially the demand was. there is because bigger is not always better and it's hard to find good people who are bought into the vision, who are committed to it and who have more of an owner's mentality rather than a renter's mentality. And finding those people are hard, but when you find him, you've got to hold on to them with everything you've got. But it's especially in the gym atmosphere, a lot of people

coming through as coaches are a little bit younger, especially in Australia. You come out of school, you either go to uni or you're going to study fitness and you either finish your degree or you're quite young. So you're still learning how the world works based off your upbringing or your character traits, what your work ethic is like. It's hard to find people who want to work. Me, Maddie, often speak about this, that you can pay someone a check and they still can almost treat you like you're doing them a favor or they're doing you a favor. but to find people, and for you, like, the best example is Trey, when he's spoken about this, the way that he respects you, who respects the brand, and what he does and how he works and the work ethic he has, I'm like, oh, that's like the gold standard, but we call Trey a unicorn.

It's, there's only a couple of unicorns in the world. If you can find a couple of them, make them a part of your team, then that's when you can really do something meaningful, but finding the right people who are aligned on the right vision is harder than it might sound. It is hard. I was just talking to someone

about this other day, and I was trying to explain the BPN culture. And they were asking about the team and the employees and how they respond to wins and losses and successes and failures

that we experience in the business on a daily basis. It could be, monthly revenue targets could be new product launches could be an event or a campaign something like that and I'll explain to the person I was talking to I mean if we miss the people here whether they're in the warehouse fulfilling orders or working on a video or running marketing or talking to suppliers they take it personally if we miss to matter what that miss is they they wear it you can see it in their face, their eyes. It's not just a paycheck for people here.

And I'm so grateful to have people like that showing up and wanting to build this brand alongside me. And I know how rare it is because it is rare. We're the same. We keep our team pretty small, keep our circle small, but we've now got a group that are basically your best friends. You see them more than you see almost your family sometimes. And so once you do, kind of find that cohort and you do build that relationship and they understand the vision and they are as passionate as you are, that's when you can do something meaningful, something bigger than yourself and for us, like something bigger than our four walls. How can we impact people the same way we impact our members? But now it's a bit more online. How can we have that same

positivity online as well? But yeah, having the right people in place cannot be undervalued. and yeah, I feel very lucky as well. It's taken a long time to find that. And especially when you bring people straight out of school or straight out of uni, you've got to kind of mentor them into positions that allow them to be successful. But, yeah, having the right team, you can go fast alone, but you can't go very far. And that's something I learned pretty quickly. Do you guys have Chick-fil-A in Australia?

No. You don't? No. Have you ever had chick-fil-A? We had it one time here. Wasn't a fan. Really? Yeah.

Why? We must have got a dud batch or something. The chips were kind of cold and then sandwich was no good. Oh, it's fast food. Yeah, yeah. It's fast food. Well, where I'm going with that is chick filet is known, at least here in the States, for having a standard of service and quality no matter what chick flay you go to.

So it's so unique where you can pull in. into a Chick-fil-A drive-thru or say like a McDonald's drive-thru. You drive-to-a-McDonnells drive-thru, you don't even know if the person's going to say hi to you. You don't know if your food's going to be wrapped up in the bag. You're just like praying for the best. Chick-fil-A, it could be raining outside. There is someone standing outside taking your order. Just getting poured on.

They're kind. They always respond. You know, they give you the food. You say thank you. They say, my pleasure. They're very responsive. And there's a standard set at Chick-fil-A that is very unique. And especially as they've scaled over the years, they've able to maintain that level of standard.

Raising Keynes is similar. In-N-Out is similar. I mean, there's a few different businesses in the U.S. here who have been able to hold this level of standard, even with scale. And that's a testament to their. leadership. And the reason I bring that up is, you know, one of the things you said was you've been entertaining the idea of franchising. But franchising is like scale is really hard, especially scaling and maintaining a level of culture and consistency and leadership and standards. And that's why it's even more impressive when you hear about the chick flays in and ounce. Because as a business owner,

a brand builder, you know how hard that is. You feel like thousands of chick filets. That is so impressive that you can go to any chick flay in the world. And they're going to respond with my pleasure. And they're going to be kind and gentle and humble. And, you know, of course, there's the one-offs where you come across someone, someone they're not having the best day.

It is what it is. It happens. But to hold that standard at scale, it's impressive. Yeah, absolutely. It's something that we've always valued the quality over the quantity. And this is saying that you can have control or you can have growth, but you can't necessarily have both. Matt, something I'm still grappling with of how much control do you have,

how much do you delegate and trust your team members? And I guess, like, yeah, we're still learning that every day. And we're taking steps to build a team like you've got here at BPN to help you run this business where right now me and Maddie are very hands-on but we understand if we want to grow we can't always have a finger on the pulse but yeah it is when you know what it takes to kind of build a brand and how hard it is to get to a level and then to scale it and then have that same standard upheld across thousands of stores yeah I guess that's the gold standard isn't it I was also thinking last night as we were leaving dinner I mean you guys are here in the US for

About a month. Hybrid Boys Week. You had your 70.3 two weeks ago, a week and half ago. Maddie has the G&M Ultra in two days. I mean, you have to have a lot of confidence in the leadership

that you have back at the gym in Australia to be able to travel for a month. Yeah, we sure do. To feel good. It does feel good. And there was obviously a period, the same way it would be with you where when you're building,

you work every day and you don't go on holidays, don't leave the gym, but to get it to a point now where we can step away in and have complete trust in our team is, yeah, such a good feeling in saying that, Mattie did have a phone call at 11 p.m. last night with the girl who's kind of managing at the moment, who's just stepped into that role for us, which has been so great whilst we're away. So there definitely is still work to be done, but there always will be. But to, yeah, to have a team that we can trust that can care for our baby like it's their own is, yeah, yeah, a... something I'm incredibly grateful for. It's something special. How big is your inner circle back in

Australia? Quite small. How many people would you say? Inner circle. Truly inner circle. Like, five? Yeah. Like, I can be friends with a lot of people and I am friends with a lot of people. Like, one of the biggest compliments I ever received was when a guy came to our gym for the first time. and I was training in the class and kind of greeted him and hung out with him, and he said to Maddie or said to someone, like, I can't believe, like, I came to trial this gym and Bailey was like just training in the class, like, just was like everyone else. And it was just something little bit, it made me really reflect and be like, oh, that means a lot to a lot of people.

And I want to treat every single person who comes through my walls like at the gym, but also just in life with that same respect and same, yeah, same attention. And just because I have a lot of touchpoint with a lot of different people, it doesn't mean I'm my circle's as big. I keep my circle quite small with how open I am and how much I let in. Not because, yeah, I don't see weakness in that, but just because it is, you've got to make sure they're the right people they understand and they're going to give you energy back and hear you and, yeah, love you no matter what.

And sometimes, yeah, it is hard to trust people and understand that they are actually just in your life because they love you and not because they want something from you. Yeah. I've learned over the years that there's nothing wrong with having a small, tight inner circle. And even as I've grown my family, I become even more protective and I want to say strict, but I say more intentional with who I allow in my life. You know, I have a lot of peers and friends and coworkers and acquaintances. but there's like a boundary that I put in place of you get access to more of me and more of my family and it's not to say that I'm extra special

but I'm very protective of who I allow occupy my mind and speak into my life or give me feedback or share their opinions or be around my kids and my wife. And as Steph and I have conversations of what we want our future look like,

we want to do life with other people. They truly living life alongside other people, not just having people come in and out of our lives. You know, just like casual friendships and acquaintances. We want deep, meaningful friendships, people in our lives that feel as if they are family. And that's hard. And in order to do that, you have to set up boundaries.

And you have to be disciplined and very intentional with who gets access to certain parts of you and who doesn't. And that sounds really cold, really harsh from the outside looking in. But I actually think it's very selfless. It seems selfish, but I actually believe it's selfless because then you can actually commit time and energy to the people that you want to do life with. Yeah. I think for me, I love my favorite thing in the world is training with other people.

Like, I absolutely love sharing that experience, playing music. Like, it's almost like as a kid playing a part of a sporting team. It just, it creates such good memories and I just love nothing more. But, and I'll train with anyone. Like, I don't ever, no matter what the ability, I feel like that experience is so fun. but and it's no disrespect to anyone, but yeah, the difference between that type of relationship

and like in a circle, people you can like tell anything to. And yeah, who do you want to be around your kids one day? Like that's a conversation me and Maddie have all the time. Like, I love how you and Trey have two kids each that are growing up together. Like that kind of shared experience in that relationship is something that I hope we have as well. And when we're thinking, or who do we want to have that with? that's the type of the inner circle that I'm thinking of as well because, yeah, I agree when you are built to be a high achiever and you are always chasing the next thing. When you do have downtime where you do have family time, what are you putting your energy towards during those times?

And it's not, I don't want to have those times and be like, oh, I just need some alone time now. I want to hang out with the people who give energy back to me and not just take it. Yeah. I shared some notes with you before we dove in today and we went back and forth on some topics that we've wanted to share. And you've obviously learned a lot of valuable lessons about leadership as you've been building this gym and this massive community and culture over in Australia. And I've learned some valuable lessons on leadership as I've built BPN and

have learned how to be a father and husband and what that looks like and feels like. And again, to go back to this book, John Maxwell's, the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership, one of the laws in this book is called the Law of Sacrifice. And the Law of Sacrifice, which is one of his 21 irrefutable laws, says that as you rise in leadership, your responsibilities increase as your rights decrease. A leader must give up to go up. And I thought a lot about that over the years. Because a lot of athletes, founders, business owners, people who are striving towards achievement and success,

that is guided by purpose, it can become a very lonely journey. I mean, I can attest to that over the years as my business has grown, my responsibilities have increased. It is, in a way, become lonelier and lonelier because you do end up giving up a lot of your rights to be a better leader, a stronger leader. And again, I can't recommend this book enough. But John Maxwell says the heart of good leadership is sacrifice, not personal gain. A lot of people think that being a leader comes with all this personal guaranteed success.

It's more power. It's more money. It's a bigger title. It's more friends. It's more of things. It's more gain. But no, it's actually at the heart of good leadership. It's sacrifice.

It's giving up more, not gain. I think if a lot of people knew that going into it, they probably wouldn't choose a path of leadership. There's a difference between being successful and the high achieving and being a leader. I'm more interested in being a better leader than being successful. I'm more driven by being a social. being a servant leader than achieving and accumulating and accomplishing. But truthfully, that's like where my cup is filled.

Maxwell says that there is no success without sacrifice. And he quotes Ralph Waldo Emerson, for everything you have missed, you have gained something else. And for everything you gain, you lose something. leaders are often asked to give up more than others. When you become a leader, you lose the right to think about yourself.

You lose the right to think about yourself. What are the sum of the things that you have sacrificed over the years as you've moved into a larger leadership role in your life and in your business? Yeah, that's a great question. I feel like we've kind of touched on them a little bit already, but my first love with basketball, sacrificing that kind of dream to pursue my relationship, although it's not necessarily to do with the business, that along with the CrossFit fork in the road as well, like those kind of two selfish endeavors where I wanted to be a professional athlete

because of my love for the game, but also because of all the glory that comes with it, I guess, I wanted to be on the center stage. I wanted to make lots of money. I wanted to be in that arena. But when you think deeper about the actual why, it was self-gain. And those two sacrifices have shaped a lot of what I do now. And then a lot of my purpose now is I want to maximize my own potential, but I want to help others maximize theirs. And so a lot of my actions, a lot of my decisions, is this, is my decision right now maximizing me or is it maximizing someone else and is it going to help them? and I feel like that's, I kind of take with me with every decision personally as a business.

But yeah, moving forward, it's the older you get, it's more about, yeah, serving others and helping them with their journey. But I feel like as the leader, it's my responsibility to troubleshoot that, go know what works and what doesn't. So then I can stop someone from making the same mistake and steer someone in the right direction. So Max Ball also says, this is so true, when you have no responsibilities, you can pretty much do anything you want. Blessing and a curse. Once you take on responsibility, you start to experience limitations in what you can do. The more responsibility you accept, the fewer options you have. I can definitely relate to this.

And here, based off what you just said, everyone who leads gives up some opportunities. Some people have to give up beloved hobbies. Many give up aspects of their personal lives. The first thing I think of, instantly, is, you know, we live in a neighborhood that's surrounded by a golf course. People always ask me, why don't you golf more? Well, that's a hobby that, like, one, I'm not interested in, but also I'm not willing to sacrifice other responsibilities I have to go golf for multiple hours on a Saturday. Nothing against golf. Yeah.

If you love golf, I love that you love golf. But one, I don't love golf and two, I'm not willing to sacrifice my other responsibilities for golf. But as your responsibilities increase in life, your leadership increases, there is sacrifice that comes with it. And for a long time, I fought that sacrifice. I would mourn the things that I was sacrificing as opposed now, as I'm not. I can reflect as an older and I believe a little bit more wiser, that it's actually a blessing that we're being called to sacrifice certain things because we are also being blessed with the ability to steward leadership responsibilities. And that's something that not everyone

gets the opportunity to pursue. Yeah. I often, it's funny because I am, an athlete, a BPN athlete, I have some water platform, it almost can put a bit of pressure on. I have to hit this time. I have to beat these people. But for me, like I spoke about, once I transitioned from doing CrossFit to not doing CrossFit competitively, that's when my order of priority shifted from my fitness being at the top of the list to now my relationship, my business, then my fitness. And so although I'm going to still pursue athletic endeavors, I love the challenge. I love the lessons you learn in the pursuit to get there. I'm not, I don't put as much pressure on myself and I understand that it's third on my priority list.

We speak about the definition for us of be all in is you, it's your commitment to give the best to the task at hand, but it's you define your capacity of what you're willing to give and then you give exactly that. And for me, I'm willing to train twice a day. I'm going to do something in the morning, something like endurance, run, bike, swim, and I'm going to do, I'm going to lift in our classes in the afternoon. And that's my fitness, my commitment. So although I'm like, oh, I would love to do whatever it is, a sub 60 high rocks, a sub three-hour marathon, a sub five-hour half-iron man, if I start neglecting or sacrificing other responsibilities that are above those priorities, then I'm becoming all consumed. And we speak about the

difference between being all and being all consumed. And there's been plenty of windows where I have been consumed by the task and often athletic. But now I am completely okay with being hybrid, pursuing different pursuits in different arenas, but I'm not going to be the best in the world anymore. And I'm okay with that. And a lot of my messaging online is it is okay to still do the chase the goal without the pressure of pass or fail. And it doesn't mean I'm going to try any less hard. I'm going to give my best and maximize my potential and whatever I say I'm going to do, I'm going to do it. But it also doesn't define my worth whether I make it or not. And that's something that I feel like potentially can stop people from trying in the first place, is that fear of failure

or it's the comparison to others or I'm not going to get as good as high as Nick Bear, why I'm even going to bother. But if part of my messaging can encourage people to do more health and fitness without being at the expense of something else, then yeah, that's a lot of my reasoning and purpose. I heard you talking about on your podcast. It was probably an episode months ago. You first started training for your first sprint try. And one of the members from your gym, when did like a 70.3 and it crushed it in like four hours, 30 minutes. And as you were training for your first try, you can easily compare your performance to someone else's performance and be extremely discouraged.

That's one route you can take or be positive. How do I surround myself with this person? How do I learn from this person? I'd be inspired by this person because it's really easy. to take this approach of if someone else is beating me, I am losing. Like, there's not room in this world for everyone to win. I used to take that same approach to life. If, if I'm not beating everyone, I'm losing. And I learned over time, there's room in this world for everyone to win. Like, their win does not take away from my

success. Did you always have that mindset or is it something you had to learn? Learn, absolutely. Um, for sure. And like, it is, yeah, when you're in it, like when I was competing in CrossFit, you kind of, you've got to have the blinkers on because if you're not borderline or consumed, like, it's very hard to make that top 1%. But for the 99% of us who aren't competing professionally, like, are we going to let that stop us from trying in the first place? Or are we going to still have fun and get so many of the benefits out of it without that comparison? And so one of our, we've got four kind of key pillars at the gym, but one of them is a rising tired lift all boats. And if you run a faster marathon than me, then it's only going to make me better, especially

if we're training the same environment, the same atmosphere. So we want to hero the people who are doing better than us, knowing that there's always someone who's probably doing worse than us, and it doesn't make us a better or worse person because of that. But we're going to use that to hero them and it's going to bring us up with them. without trying to discredit them, drag them down back to our level. So it makes us feel better. We have this terminology in Australia called like a tall poppy syndrome where it's very common

for someone who is a high achiever or trying to do something outside of the norm for the majority to want to pull them back down to cut their heads off and give them a level head as opposed to cheering them on and celebrating. their success knowing that we can all win. And I feel like through our values at the gym, a lot of them, you can attach a physical or, yeah, connotation to them, but it's mainly about the psychological approach to fitness and to life as well. So that's a big thing for us, because, yeah, the mental side of things is often whether someone enjoys something or they don't or whether they even do something or they don't. Have you heard of the crabs in a bucket analogy? No. I think it's the

same as the tall poppy syndrome. This actually happens with crabs. You put a bunch of crabs in a bucket, and if one crab starts to try to climb out of the bucket, the other crabs will actually reach up and pull this crab back in the bucket. And it's the analogy of, like, in life, if status quo is conformity, doing the same thing, the one outlier is going to try to climb out of what everyone else is doing,

but the response of all the other who have conformed are going to try that to pull that person back down. Like, oh, no, no, you're not get out on here on your own. Crabbs in the bucket. That's how the world works. As soon as you try to step out and do something different and new and hard and challenging, you are the anomaly.

And no one wants the anomaly. No one wants the black sheep. It's like, stay here, do what we're all doing, conform to the patterns of this world. And people will try to hold you back, but you got to push through it. Yeah. And like, for me, I can handle it, you know, whether I get a negative comment or people aren't happy for me or he's only a BEPN athlete because of this or whatever it is. He must be using steroids. it's like, I know that my integrity is good and my character is strong and I can handle that heat,

but I'm going to try and change that culture for my community in person and online because that shouldn't be the standard. Who says that's the standard? You know, and if we can, it's funny, I often think about, I'm sure we both get frustrated with the way some people act in the world and some of the negativity out there, but the people listening to this podcast probably aren't those people. You know, they're probably the right people. who already have very similar values to us. But if we as leaders in our respective communities can take that heat, stay strong, encourage people in our communities,

the people listening to uphold those same values, then maybe they impact one person. And if like we're the 1% and the people listening can impact one person, then we become 2%. And that person impacts someone, then it becomes 3%. And like, I kind of just have this mindset that, yeah, there will always be that negativity, but I can take the heat and I'm going to try and impact as many people positively while I'm on the surf. It goes back to the law of sacrifice for people like us who have built personal brands.

And I want to talk a little bit about building a personal brand. There's people who follow us and look up to us and will model their life based on. off of the way that we are living our lives. It's a huge responsibility. And as John Maxwell says, as you rise in leadership, your responsibility increases and your rights decrease. And there are a lot of people on there who have built platforms and they steward those rights and responsibilities the wrong way.

We have platforms. We have influence. We have responsibility. We have to set the standard. We might be going through. and tough or angry or frustrated with someone or something, but we have the right to show up for the people who follow us to lead them and not act out of emotional insecurity or instability.

But that's the responsibility that we have as leaders in the space. I think there's way too many people with platforms and audiences and followings who don't take that responsibility serious. and they think they still have all the rights. Yeah. You know, you don't. Yeah. You don't.

You've given up those rights to get the following. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah. They think that because of a number of a followers, like they are better than everyone else. Or they, yeah, what they've done to get there wasn't, they didn't, they had to sacrifice their character. And so they're like, well, I've kind of got here now. I'm going to keep going. But, yeah, their intentions are why?

they wanted that fame or following or dollar amount? Like, what's the reasoning behind that? And yeah, there's too many people who want that, but they don't understand why they want that. And it's dangerous when people yet have platforms, but don't necessarily want it for the right reasons. I want to talk briefly about building a personal brand, especially as you've been building your personal brand.

I got this email. This was just yesterday. And it's from this guy named Justin Oberman. and I didn't subscribe to his substack, but somehow I get his substack emails. I don't know what happened. Maybe he just added me to his list. But the title of this email was the key to building a personal brand

is to talk about it. And I rarely open up emails that I don't recognize, but I was like, I'm going to open this up because this seems interesting. And I thought it was pretty applicable to this conversation. And I know since, you sign as a BPN athlete, you've invested more time into building a YouTube presence. Building a personal brand is hard. Building a personal brand that leaves legacy

and creates impact and that you can build a business from, that's even harder. People can build a following. You post a photo, make a cool caption, goes viral, whatever. But I've always taken the approach of building a personal brand with long form content. That's why I love YouTube.

That's why I love the podcast. It's because people can hear you speak and talk. So some of the copy from this email, which I thought was gold. Everyone wants to be a thought leader. Nobody wants to give a speech. Think about that for a second. People will spend six months building a content calendar,

optimizing their LinkedIn profile, testing hooks, running A, B, subject lines, all to build authority online, but ask them to get on stage or on a podcast or to lead a webinar that isn't just a slide deck read aloud, panic, avoidance. I'm not saying that it's impossible to build a personal brand on social media, but as my last Tuesday newsletter on personal publicity talked about the fastest way to build an unforgettable personal brand isn't creating

more content. It's creating more presence. And the highest leveraged form of presence is speaking. Am I speaking? I do not mean by creating video content. I mean speaking live either on camera or directly to an audience full of people. Your post can get you known, but your speaking voice. The way you show up when there's nowhere to hide, that's what makes people try. trust you. Your voice creates presence. Presence leads to trust. What's it's been like for you building a personal brand over the years? And especially as I've seen you lean more into YouTube and documenting all the BTS of your life and your preps and your business and what have you learned? I have learned that you can't rush anything.

That if you want, for me, like working with BPN is like, was my dream brand. Why is that? Because I related and connected so heavily to the values. I love the supplements, of course, but it was more than the supplements. It was about the values, the ethos. That's what I was most drawn and connected to. and I wanted to be a part of that. And I feel like a lot of people had that same kind of feeling

when they first stumble across your YouTube or the brand, someone from the brand has done. And so that was my goal. And as my platform was growing slowly, I would have offers from multiple supplement companies. Hey, come work for us. Hey, here's a paycheck for this. And I said no to all of them

because I knew who I wanted to work with and I was going to play the long game. Didn't know how long it was going to take. Maybe it never happened. But I know it definitely wasn't going to happen if I'm using other brands, promoting other brands. So I would buy a product from Australia, pay international shipping, be a consumer, be a fan, and uphold the same values that you uphold

and hope that things will work out exactly how they're meant to. I made a post last night that said in a world where people are playing the short game, go long. And I truly believe it can be so, easy to think that we live in this rat race where everyone wants the same thing, everyone wants a following, they want the brand opportunities, they want the limelight, whatever it is, but it's never been easier to stand out from the crowd if you just do things the right way. The right way is going to take longer, but the fulfillment you're going to get when you

get to that mountaintop or whether you sign with BPN or whatever it is, you start that business, that feeling will never compare if you take a shortcut to get there and only you will know if you do it the right way or the wrong way but I'm telling you that's not a life that I want to live taking the safe route or taking the easier route it's hard but it's worthwhile I'll tell you that I remember the early days of building VPN yeah I started

I started BPN in 2012 I started creating content content in 2014. And there were all these other creators at the time that started around the same time as me. YouTube Fitness was a different place in 2014. It looks nothing like it does today. I think it was probably better in 2014. But a lot of the people that I started creating with during that time frame aren't creating today. because they chased certain opportunities,

didn't play the long game, didn't have the vision for the future. And it was actually really discouraging this first couple years for me where I saw all these people growing faster than me, building bigger businesses than me, building gyms, all these things. I was like, man, like, I just don't have it.

Yeah. I don't have it. I don't know what it is, but I don't have it. But I stuck with it. And I stayed on my journey, my path. And over the years, a lot of these creators that I started with, they stopped, they burn out, they gave up, businesses fell apart. And there's very few who are creating content today that I started with in 2014. But I played the long game.

And it worked out. But I will be honest, like this first couple years, like many years were very discouraging. I always felt behind. I always felt like I was losing. I always felt like everyone else was gaining faster than me and succeeding more than me. I felt something was wrong with me. I thought my approach was wrong.

They were better. They were smarter. I just, for a while, except the fact that I'm always going to be second place. I'm always going to be behind. But then I just stuck with it. And it's so cliche and it's so, talked about but it's also so real.

Yeah, that people want the quick fix, they want the magic film. We spoke about it a bit earlier about those first few years or like the initial foundation building. If you, it's going to take a couple of years but if you can slug that out, then you can build from that. But most people can't even get to the end of that first part because it's hard. It's so hard.

I think one of my assets was that when I started posting content, it wasn't to go viral. And I feel like a lot of creators, especially young ones, the main reason they want to grow social media platform is because they don't have to work. They want that to be their job, which I can understand, but it just means their reasoning or their why behind it is kind of shallow, where for me I had already built my gym, already had my community, which was growing before I was ever tried to grow my social media.

And I feel like that allowed me to, when I did start to grow, I wasn't chasing the virality. I wasn't willing to sacrifice my character or post something controversial for views or for likes, which means my growth has been slower than a lot of other creators out there. But the reason I've been able to sign with some of my dream brands like BPN is because I've done it the right way. And hopefully, I hope that my story encourages some people to continue to do things the right way, gives them hope that these brands will give you the acknowledgement that you deserve if you are consistent over time and you can see it through the

long haul. And I think when we reflect back to the start of social media or the start of a business, it's always like darkest right before the dawn. If you can just like stick it out when you feel like you're behind, you feel like everyone's got the answer and you just don't have it, don't take the magic pill, don't take the shortcut, stick it out, and just trust that everything will work out the way it's meant to. I actually love that quote, darkest right before it's dawn, because I have found in the darkest moments, it typically means there's about to be something that changes. And for a lot of people, they're in those really dark moments.

It can only get worse. Sometimes it can't get worse. It's got to get better because you know you're doing the right things. for the right reasons. It's got to turn around. It's also having hope. It's having faith, trust in the process. So what's next for you? Great question. Athletically is the first thing I go to. I've got high rocks wolds in June in Sweden, which will be super fun. Relationally, we just got married last year. Super happy with that. We'll probably look to have kids the next couple of years and don't have an exact date or when that is. But I'm really excited for that chapter.

for the gym, like I spoke about before, you can have control, you can have growth. And I feel like we're about to enter this phase of growth because I'm finally coming to this point where I'm willing to relinquish some control. Bring some people in who have expertise that I might not have and let's impact as many people as we can. And when it comes to like my personal brand or online, I just want to keep doing me, keep being having a positive impact on the world, keep doing things the right way, keep playing the long game. And, yeah, just hope that I leave this world better than I found it because in a world where there's so much negativity, I just think there is also so much good and so much positivity.

And if we can just keep highlighting that and I can be somewhat of a beacon of light for whoever it is that follows me, yeah, that's kind of what drives me to keep kicking. Be it light and the dark. The dark needs light. The bucket needs the crab that's crawling out. Yeah. Well, brother, I appreciate you. Really proud and grateful to have you on this team. And to be able to finally spend some real time together

as you've been in Austin last couple weeks. And looking forward to your wife throwing down at the ultra in two days. Yeah, she's going to crush me. I'm just excited to be a part of that experience as well. As a crew member, we've got some heavy hitters coming out. But yeah, I feel like the exact same way I spoke about my athletic kind of approach now. There's so many people like Maddie, Joey who are going to they're not ultra runners you know this is not their sport but they're just

going to give it their absolute best and i'm excited just to share that experience with with the community so yeah it's going to be fun awesome i appreciate brother thank you thank you