The Nick Bare Podcast - 182: You Can't Cheat the Marathon — Eric Floberg's 8-Year Journey to 2:29

Episode Date: July 13, 2026

Eric Floberg ran his first marathon in 3:50. Eight years later, he crossed the Boston finish line in 2:29.In this episode, we are covering his marathon journey, fueling breakthroughs, training volume, the mindset unlock, balancing fatherhood, sobriety, and why discipline without gratitude will cost you.CHAPTERS:0:00 Intro4:44 Sweat Tests, Sodium Loss & Electrolyte Strategy12:30 Why Dads Need a Goal That's Just Theirs23:08 The Wake-Up Moment28:18 Years 1–532:28 How Everything Changed40:16 Carb Loading/Race Fueling Mistakes45:36 The Full Marathon Timeline51:09 What Made the Biggest Difference1:09:23 Stop Feeling Guilty for Being Tired1:13:57 Balancing Training, Fatherhood & Presence1:22:08 Sobriety, Family Legacy & Generational HealthORDER MY BOOK HERE:⁠ ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Go-One-More-Intentional-Life-Changing/dp/1637746210⁠FOLLOW:Become a BPN member FOR FREE - Unlock 25% off FOR LIFE ⁠⁠https://www.bareperformancenutrition.com/collections/performance-nutrition⁠IG: ⁠⁠instagram.com/nickbarefitness/⁠⁠YT: ⁠⁠youtube.com/@nickbarefitness⁠FOLLOW ERIC:IG: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/floberg.runs/?hl=en⁠This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal [health or profession] advice. Bare Performance Nutrition (BPN) is not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. This podcast is not intended to replace professional medical advice.This podcast may not be republished without the written consent of Bare Performance Nutrition (BPN)MB01IFERB8217IU

Hey guys, so before we dive into today's episode, I want to let you know about the biggest sale that BPN has ever done in our history. The entire website during our summer sale is 30% off. Now, the summer sale kicks off July 13th, 10 a.m. Central Standard Time, and it ends July 15th, 1159 p.m. Central Standard Time. The entire website is 30% off. And we are launching some new apparel and flavors of products. My personal favorites, we are launching a midnight melon pre and pump. These products are part of our recently launched strength collection. And the midnight melon flavor might be one of the best flavor systems we have ever created.

I crave it. crisp, it is delicious, it is refreshing, and we launched a limited time offering of way protein. You guys have been asking for this flavor for years and we finally made it happen. Smoors. Perfect for summer. So it's a great opportunity to try new products, new flavors, or stock up on your favorite existing products. Thanks, guys. And now let's dive into today. episode. Ladies and gentlemen, today on the podcast, we have Eric Floberg. What's up? Very excited to be here. Thanks for being here. Yeah, happy to be. So you hit a workout this morning. Did. What was it? It was a lot of volume. It was two up. It was programmed as two by three

mile, all 400 meter jog rest in between and then two by mile after that. Three mile sections at about marathon pace. The mile repeats at the end at about half marathon pace. What is marathon pace right now? I mean, it's hard with like acclimating to heat and then, well, I definitely went out too fast on the first set thinking I could probably retain goal marathon pace for this fall. But that's floating right around 540 a mile. And yeah, I adjusted it halfway through because I hit the first set a bit too hot.

Like high 530s to mid 530s. and then was like, I got to salvage this. So just broke it up a bit like I typically do in that scenario. So yeah, did a two-mile chunk and then three-by-mile instead, with some walk-rests instead of jog-rests. So this is the first time I hit heat in like six months. So you come off of Chicago, you come off of summer training, and then you have essentially six months of all the way to deep freeze

and then back up to like perfect marathon training weather through the spring. and then slapped in the face. Because right now it's high of 95 back in Chicago. But no humidity. A lot of humidity. Oh, it is humid. So it's basically the same. But I didn't experience it yet.

I hadn't done a midweek workout yet. So this was the first done in a very long time. Yeah, I naturally get really lean in the summer here. Yeah. Just from the amount of sweat from these workouts. I do my morning run right now. My average morning run is six miles. Yep.

Now I get back and I'm absolutely soaked. Yep. And I hop right in the sauna for 10 minutes. And I probably lose 7 to 8 pounds in the morning. And you're just naturally a heavy sweater too, yeah? Salty sweater too. Salty. Have you ever done a sweat test?

I feel like I need to do all the tests. I've never done any of the, I don't think I've ever done like a proper blood test or a sweat test. I think the sweat test would be real helpful for me because I'm a decently heavy sweater as well. But yeah, when I was tracking weight and macros last fall, I was noticing the same in the summer training with a handful of pounds lost on each one. Yeah. Especially on the big volume Wednesday workouts.

The sweat tests are interesting. I haven't done one for maybe five years. Yeah. But I remember when I did it, and I should do another one soon. It's a process where you weigh yourself before and after. you record that data. You record the temperature, the humidity, the dew point of that day or morning, how much liquid you consumed during the session.

And then you put this patch and the test that I did. It was like this patch. You put on your arm. And then after the workout's done, you stuff it in this tube and you sent it for analysis. And I believe I did this test in like June or July. And it was during a speed workout with Jeff and his crew on the east side loop in Austin. And I think the results came back. I lost like 2,500 milligrams of sodium per hour.

So trying to stay on top of that. It's brutal. It's tough. Yeah, I don't tend to think about it too much in marathon racing because usually you're racing marathons in 40 to 60 degrees. And so the sweat loss isn't nearly as much. I've had races where I'm barely sweating at all at the first. finish line. So it's interesting to look at that dynamic and it was really fascinating to talk to

Luke last year when he was doing his sweat test and how much he struggled with, I think it was Iron Man, Texas, or he just sweat like crazy. I think getting that test was really transformative for him to realize how much he needs to supplement back in. That's never really an issue for me is with that much sweat loss in a race because I'm usually only ever dealing with. Like grandma's was pretty brutal last year. So that was one where it like got into the 70s, which is rough for marathon. But, you know, like Boston this past spring was, we didn't even touch 50 degrees. So I wasn't even sweating that much at all. Yeah. I think it's good data to have. But it's not black and white. Yeah. Where the way that I interpret the data is, okay, I'm losing 2,500 milligrams of sodium per hour.

I am then going to try and replace 2,500 milligrams of sodium per hour during this workout. for me it's it's this information where I can say okay I have to preload electrolytes within a certain range prior to this workout I have to replenish at a certain rate and ratio during the workout but more importantly throughout the rest of the day I just as to be mindful of consuming more electrolytes add salt to food to maintain energy levels recovery appropriate fluid, electrolyte balance, but it's not one for one necessarily. It's just it guides some of my decisions on a daily basis.

It's fascinating to see how much more people who are engaging with much more sweat loss and need it back in their diet and how that can be transformative for them, for their training. And it's, to me, it's always something that I'm thinking as secondary or tertiary. to carbs and it's always something I kind of forget about. And then I need to remember because like six months of not thinking about it as much. And then all of a sudden you hit a workout like today and you're like, yeah. Yeah. You need to make sure. There's days though in the afternoon, especially here in Texas summer where I start getting fatigued. Yeah. And my initial response is I

need caffeine. And I'll go mix up with some electrolytes and 30 minutes later I'm good. Yeah. So sometimes fatigue is is a response or result of being dehydrated. But I want to talk about your marathon journey. You had a video on your YouTube channel that's titled, You Can't Cheat the Marathon, which I think is so well said, resonated with me a lot.

Your marathon journey has also really resonated with me a lot because it's similar to mine. Now, I'm not a 229 marathoner. yet. I'm a 239 marathoner, but your first marathon, 2017, mine was 2018. Yeah. It is crazy how similar the trajectory you're seeing you're doing. It's wild, dude. Yeah. So like my first marathon, hometown 2018, you ran Chicago 350. I ran 357 from my first marathon. Your second marathon, you ran slower, 359, my second marathon, I ran slower, 415. And then it was this realization of, I got to do something different. Yep. Let's go get faster and better. And then over the course of

years and years, you just shave off minutes, you know, a little bit here and there over time. Yeah. I think that's what was so crazy about following your videos, too, because I was noticing that that was happening. And then once CIM rolled around where you ran your PR, you know, it wasn't a peak race for me. But it was just, it was kind of that wild realization of us both kind of transforming the speed at the same time because I had just come off of 239 in Chicago, uh, two months prior. And then you had your day. And that was, I'll always remember, I think we were at like mile 15 and like, like media came up and I'm like, what's up guys? And so I just signed the VPN. And I'm like, I thought they were filming me. And I'm like,

where's Nick? And they're like, he's right behind you. And I look back and you were so dialed. I was so dialed that day. And I go, hey, how do you feel? And you're like, I feel strong. I was just like, okay. That was the best run of my life. It was awesome, man.

Your splits are like the most consistent, like within two seconds every mile. Yeah. Yeah. That was the best run on my life. I felt so strong the entire way through. It was a very well executed prep. And I was so focused that day. I was so focused.

but we have this shot of you and me running together. I think it's around mile 15, 16, 17, something like that. I had like had my mullet still. Yep. And I remember Steph was with the media crew. And she was yelling at me like, how are you feeling, how you're doing?

And I said nothing. I just kept my eyes looking down the course and I threw up the rock one sign. And they have a photo of that versus me running. You're like next to me. I have the rock ones the sign going.

And that was, dude, that was such a fun day. That was really fun. Man, what a, I just remember finishing that race. And I was looking at the guys

that were filming. I said, I'm so proud of that one. Right. I remember that. There's nothing like that. It's insane. And it's,

it can, in marathoning, it can, those moments can be few and far between. If you're really chasing a lifetime best. And that's, really that like so you know that was that was last marathon you've run right yeah 2012 yeah so i've

still every spring and fall been racing and progressing and think really since that point yeah because fall of 23 for me i had a goal of 242 or under 242 and i ran 239 i knew i was in better fitness than that i think i was really trying to go for like 236 237 that day but that seemed to kind of be the tail of the next five races where I would set a pretty specific time goal and I would miss that time goal by a few minutes, but I would still progress and get a new PR. And that whole time until Boston, just this past spring, Boston was the one where I was like, it all came together and it was that feeling where I crossed the finish line. It was like the time was hit, the PR was hit. We had the perfect day. We had the perfect weather. And it was just.

euphoric. Like, I ran Boston in 24. It was a really hot day. A lot of people really struggled. I remember that one. Me included. And I was trying to go under 235 that day. I ran 238. That was just a minute PR on, you know, obviously a pretty difficult course. But I walked away from Boston being like, I don't really know if I like that race. I like the energy of New York maybe more. And then Chicago is just, I don't know if I can look at it objectively since it's the hometown race. I just love it so much. But this time with Boston made me go, oh wait, maybe it is on the same level as New York as far as hype and excitement the whole weekend and just having run that time, trained as hard as I did and then execute like that, getting under 230 by, what was it,

16 seconds. I was just like, I've never had that moment in racing. I don't think where I just like ripped off my sunglasses and just like screamed at the top of my life. lungs. And I didn't care, I didn't care about anything other than just that feeling of finally accomplishing that goal that I'd, you know, for that point two years really been wanting to hit and to do it on that course and that epic of a marathon was, yeah, there's like nothing else. And I've been saying it recently. I'm kind of, I've just been reflecting on it the past few months where I look at it. I'm like, if I never even run a faster time than that, I'm pretty happy with that being the peak.

You should be. And, like, of course, I still want to run faster and want to test that because that's just, I think, in my nature. But, yeah, I keep saying when I'm old and gray and I look back at that, that's going to be like, I feel real good about that one. Yeah. Yeah, you should be. Yeah. Me and Trey were talking about this yesterday during our workout. You know, just like you, we're dads, we're husbands.

We got businesses. We got jobs. We're driven professionally. and in so many different areas and disciplines of our life, it is driven to sacrifice for others. We do things to sacrifice for our kids and our marriages and our team members. And you get to a point in life where you are purposely driven to selflessly serve. And I think it's important to find a thing that you do for yourself.

For me, that's training. That's fitness. You can dedicate that time yourself and you can watch yourself improve and get better and grow. So when you set these massive goals that are for you and really no one else and then you go chase it down and get it, that's just like this. Yes, I did this thing that I said I was going to do. I think we need that, especially as more, as life becomes more complicated and complex and our responsibilities increase and not for us, but for the welfare of others. And my inspiration to really start running as an adult is actually rooted in Hebrews 12,

1 through 2. I was like on a summer project and just the metaphor of running the race of life. I just went out and ran 10 miles randomly. And I figured, like I had some sort of running background as a kid and as a teenager. I just went for it. And that is really the base of, and weirdly enough, like just this past Sunday at church, I was in kids' church with my boys. And that was the passage. And it was all about running.

And, yeah, like, one of our friends was like, oh, you need to take this lesson and go do that with them. Really cool, full circle moment for me in seeing that being the inspiration. But I've always recognized that metaphor. as being directly tied to connecting running to life and how deeply interwoven they are and to go even deeper than not to discredit any other discipline or race style or whatever, but the marathon as well. And just the whole concept of life being a marathon, I think it really shapes your mentality in approaching life

when you can actually go through the process of training for a race like that, of that distance, where metabolically you're getting destroyed, and you have to replenish and all of your glycogen is being depleted and you have to have a strategy and there's so many variables. It's this phenomenal metaphor

for the complexity of how difficult every season of life can be, how you adjust based off of things that are out of your control and then when you see it to fruition, then it's just, I mean, it's euphoric. And so then translating that into you the toughest parts of your life

relationally for me with faith that was an incredibly hard season through my 20s into mid-30s. I feel like I'm finally coming out of a days with that. So many tools that shape my mentality and approach to being disciplined and finding selflessness in life. And a lot of my early 20s is building my business into my early 30s and the carnage and craziness of COVID mixed in there. But I feel like coming out of that fog now, especially as a dad, and seeing my boys get around the double digits in years and starting to get into more complex emotional thought and sports and things that we can connect on where we didn't have as much as young kids has really made me realize how valuable selflessness is.

And so for my training, it's really interesting to see how I can still have this thing for myself within reason to train. when they're asleep or to work it into my day, where I still get meaningful time with them and making sure that that happens. But to them then see me do that and also be present, I've started cutting out my commute to my studio in the city. I built out my home office. I'm now working on average four and a half

out of the five days a week at my home office just to get some of that time back. And I'm starting to realize that, even in my track workout this morning, like getting in the depths of the difficulty of the reps, a phrase came to me. It was like, you've been here before.

And so applying that same kind of, obviously very different, the physical difficulty of running a marathon race, but the same principle applying, how difficult it is in that moment and realizing I can actually get through this and get to the finish line. I feel the same way about complexities in life.

I zoom out and I go, there is a finish line here. And, you know, God willing, that's decades down the line, but there will be a finish line, and I can persist through this. Yeah, I love that. We were in church this past weekend, and I just shared this in a recent YouTube video. But the message from our pastor, Pastor Joe Champion, go to Celebration Church here in Georgetown, he was talking about how so many people, when they find themselves in a valley, whether this is a hard. in life or a challenging moment, or it's between two highs. You know, this big win in life

and there's this lull between this previous high and this big milestone and accomplishment in the next, you might not be experiencing hardship or struggle, but it's between two highs. So many people will set up camp in the valley. And when you find yourself in the valley, avoid setting up camp,

throw your rucksack on and climb out of that valley as fast and hard as possible. We are called, we are required to steward our ability to work and challenge ourselves and grow.

And I've been sitting on that the last couple days that we have been provided all these talents and skills and ability, but we have to use them and apply them for good and to reach what is potential. But I've been tested so much in this season of life with two young kids and building

in business and being driven but also trying to be present at the same time. I don't know if it's possible to find a way to balance all of it. You end up managing it. but I'm learning so much in the season. Yeah. But I do believe that the marathon has so many parallels. Oh, yeah. Between a build and the progress and the consistency required and how hard it gets and life itself.

You can't cheat it. No. I have people get exposed on race day. My buddy Kofuzi says it's like it's, this is the rehearsal day. Your race day is rehearsal. And it's like you think about a piano recital, sorry, recital. You think of a piano recital. It's like, yeah, you get a.

on the stage, you're going to get found out if you didn't do the work. And yeah, obviously, there's just variables and how it can be difficult on race day. But if you didn't actually do the work, there's no real shot at you reciting that and showing that the work was put in. Yeah. Well, you said in your first marathon, you were shooting for sub three. Yeah. Like, where, where did that naive, ignorant mindset come from? As a kid, I had a natural ability to run. I was always the kid that ran the mile the fastest in my class in sixth grade. I ran sub-seven and no one was really tracking with me. So I just kind of had that arrogance through childhood into middle school.

I won my district in the mile. I ran a 524 mile in eighth grade and we had a really good cross-country team in high school. They were like top three in state every year. Very good program. They're trying to get me to go off for it and I wanted nothing to do with it. I hated the stress of performing in races. We go to track meets, cross-country meets, and all my friends and teammates were just like ready to win today.

And I hated the pressure of feeling like I had to carry that weight and win. Were you competitive when you were younger? Not really. I was the same way. I wasn't really competitive. Yeah, I was really athletic, but I never really cared to be on top of the mountain looking down. And I loved being good at sports.

I really loved baseball. baseball, made all-sour teams, wasn't really that great at many other sports, but was really athletic. But it was cool to win this stuff. And I got really humbled my eighth grade year. I lost in the 800 the day before. It was a two-day track meet. And I got burned. I went out way too fast, and I got burned. And my dad sat me down on the car. And it was just like, what lesson did you learn? Like, it was a pacing lesson. He's like, you need to camp out on their shoulders tomorrow for three laps and then just burn them in the last lap. And I did that and I won the race. That was like a really good foundational thing to learn that discipline actually can can give you success. But I hated the

pressure. I hated the feeling. Just didn't fall in love with the sport. So there's a part of me that wonders what would have been if I had gone through that program. There's a very good chance I would have gone collegiate and running in whatever capacity. I don't know. But I also, I'm almost fully convinced that if I had gone that route, I wouldn't be in love with running as I am now. Yeah. And it would look very different because we see that story a lot with collegiate runners that they just burn out.

And then I just made a video about it. Like there's so many stories of collegiate runners and there's a 10-year gap and then they come back to the marathon. And they didn't really keep up with running fitness there. And then they're trying to get back to, you know, a piece of who they were in that time. And so it's really interesting for a lot of people, because I think a lot of people are similar to us

where they didn't necessarily run in that phase of life. Then they get into their 30s and they really want to be competitive on the marathon stage because there aren't that many pinnacle race experiences in the U.S. outside of marathoning, really. Like you have your local 5K, 10K halves, but like the majors and the huge events I think are the most exciting. Yeah. So it's, I wasn't super competitive.

But I knew I had. that background. And so I get into, I was 27, I think, at the time, 26. We just had our second kid. I was the heaviest I'd ever been, the most out of shape I'd been. And it was definitely a wake-up moment. Like, I want the longevity. My dad was never in shape. We never really did active stuff. Were you training at all? Any sort of fitness? No. No. I was a full-time teacher building my photo video business. and at that time, I had just gone full-time with my business. I did three years of teaching from 2013 to 2016, jumped to full-time with the business,

and then started YouTube in 2018 for my creative photo video channel. And it had always, like, from that point of running that 10-mile or that one random summer in 2010, to that point when I was 27, I mean, life was a whirlwind. Like, we got married young, we had our first kid super young. He was born in 2014. and then our second came 2017. And there's that feeling of, I always want to do a marathon

as a bucket list thing. And so I think at that point I was starting to get really competitive with business. And I was definitely, I was a performer. Like in high school, I was the theater kid actually.

Like I did choir, I did musicals, like all that stuff. I loved being on stage. And I had a ton of fun doing that. And I actually did just gymnastics in high school. We won, we won state my sophomore year. So really random, but like, uh, I think that's the kind of the culmination of like the teaching and the performance leading

to YouTube and finding success entrepreneurally and seeing that I could have that kind of win. It was always like, oh, well, I actually have this skill in running from my past. Maybe I could. And so then I got, you know, it was following Casey Nice to that. He was running and he wasn't really necessarily running marathons. I think he ran New York every year. But yeah, immediately saw the sub three marker. And at that point, that was the Boston qualifier. And I knew I could run a sub seven mile here and there or go out and run three miles under seven minutes. I'm like, surely I could lengthen this out and do it for a whole race. So just, yeah, for two years straight, just had no idea what I was doing training-wise, go out, maybe do 25, 30 miles a week, no workouts, really no

long runs, maybe, I think I ran my first half marathon in 2017, and I have video footage of it, and it's hysterical, like, just absolutely slogging at the past, the last three, four miles. So no expectation or realistic understanding of what was going to go down in the race. And I think I proved to myself, I'm sort of in the fitness. because I went through half in that first race and 1 35. So I was tracking for a 310 and just got annihilated in the second half. And no fueling, really. I think I had like a gel or two.

And yeah. Yeah, that's how my early journey started. And I look back at some of these videos I was filming back then. I had no clue what I was doing. I wasn't wearing a smart watch. I didn't track mileage. I didn't track pace. I didn't track heart rate.

I would carry my phone with my headphones plugged in, cord whipping around, my face everywhere. And I didn't have any expectations for my first marathon. I went out, easy pace. By mile 17, I was humbled pretty quickly. Full body seizure cramps. We have one of these videos in my early marathons where I stopped to give an update to the camera. Like, thinking about that now, like stopping. drinking a cup of water, giving an update to the cameraman of,

here's where we're at, this is how I'm feeling, this is what's going on, we'll walk for a little bit. I remember my first or second marathon, I was cramped up so bad, and I'm walking in this cop who was working the marathon, walked out to me. He's like, hey, brother, what are you doing out here? Why are you doing this? I'm running a marathon.

And then I remember going from my first sub three. and I wasn't in sub three shape. I wasn't able to hold the pace. But I told myself mentally, I am stronger than I am physically. I just have to hold a 6.45 minute per mile pace. And I went out that for six miles and I was probably holding a 6.30 pace.

And I knew after six miles, there's no way I'm holding this any longer. And I ran 324. The first time I actually tried to go for, sub three. What was the first year you went sub three? That was fall of 22. So it took five years to get there. And I wasn't really competitive with a three-hour marathon until 2019. I ran Chicago fall of 2019 and ran 3-10. And similarly, in that race, I came to the race being like, I think I'm around it. I have a shot at it. but really all I want to do and prove to myself this race is just do not stop.

Because in the previous two races, every time I stopped, it was impossible to start back up again. And I just, I would run for half a mile and then just have to walk again. So that was my mantra going into the second half of that race is you may slow, but you just have to not stop. And so I think I slowed to almost eight minute pace at one point in the late part of the race. and came through in 310, but I did not stop that race, and I proved to myself that I could push through it. So that was really transformative for me there,

but then even from then, it was still three more years of just really struggling to hit it. And then in 2021, I had posterior tibial tendinitis and the ankle and just very stereotypical dude, just not going to the doctor, not going to PT, not figuring it out for a half year. And I had, because I had fundraised for Chicago that past fall, they gave me a bib to New York the next year. And COVID came, so I ran it virtually 2020, ran 305 on the lake that day was brutal.

It was like freezing. I got hit by Lake Michigan water. It was ridiculous. Full-blown cramps at 21 had to stop. It was by yourself? Yeah. I had some friends chasing me on an e-bike and just like, yeah, I came around the Oaks bend on the Chicago Lake Front Trail and the entire lake came up to the break wall and soaked

me from my knees down. Gosh. And that was like mile seven. And then we got lost from each other at like mile 15 and then turned around and had like 25 mile an hour headwinds. It was really dark. It was really difficult. I feel like that was in that era, maybe the best race I had.

That was a 305. And then I actually went backwards. the next year because of the tendonitis and ran a 311 in New York. But I went to PT that summer being like, if I'm going to run New York and actually run a decent time, I need to figure this out. So I did. And then ran 311, but I think that's really just what really let a fire in me. Because then 22, I went to grandmas, ran a 303.

Some of the same story, still not feeling, still not feeling correctly. Puked really hard at mile 20 and just, I was on pace. I was ready to run in 256 that day. I was feeling great at mile 17. And then it just all imploded on me at 20, 21. And I had to just jog it in. That was like humiliating. It was so brutal. So I had a friend helped me through that next block going into fall of 22. That's where I finally, I think I was doing some speed work. No real long run workouts leading up to that grandma's spring, marathon. But then this friend who was at the time, he was like a 224 marathoner. He ended up running 219 eventually. He put me through mile repeat workouts, 800s. And then really understanding

he was like, we need, we need to fuel. Like we need to actually get carbs in. And it was still, I feel like still kind of emerging at that point. It's just exploded the last three years understanding carbon intake and how critically important it is in marathoning. So, So finally, did that, had structured training, had the most confidence going into the race, and then went really conservative the first half to negative split. And then that was a huge unlock for me when money ran 257 that fall. It was like, this is how it's supposed to work. Electric Day.

It was another one of those similar to Boston where like, I'll never forget that day. 257 on the clock, like five years of trying to do this and you finally figured it out. and I'm 31 at that point and just yeah it was really really cool but then it was just like an avalanche of fitness and just like hammering after that

to keep getting faster I remember my first sub three and it was like if I can just get a sub three hour marathon I can call it quits that's like it's all I want to do and then you do it and you realize

there's so much potential left it's well let's now let's see where I can take this next so from 2017 three hour 50 minute marathon and then getting slower the following year three hour 59 marathon what changes did you make to training specifically to get to sub three or close to sub three or was it just the compounding consistency of running more I don't the compounding consistency for me was the 257 to where I am now. That's what I attribute that progression to. The first progression was just go from knowing nothing

to actually have some structured training. Some but not much. Some but not, yeah, that last one leading to the 257, that was the huge unlock. It was like, this is actually how you train for a marathon. I just stubbornly was literally that whole time. I'm like, I can will my way through this. Like, I'm a talented enough runner.

I can figure it out. and just humbled over and over. Until someone who actually knew how to do it was like, let me hold your hand. And then I did it. And that really proves a point too in this distance and discipline. Like, you do need to understand what you're doing if you want to have success in it.

Because I would try gels, but they would make me so nauseous that I would just wrote them off. I'm like, I'm going to do it without it. And then, like, it just didn't work. And, you know, a few of those blocks, maybe I was touching 40 miles a week, but that last one leading in 257, most weeks were 50 miles or more a week. And that was the proper volume I needed for that type of effort. I think I might have even done that for grandmas, but the fueling part wasn't unlocked yet. I literally had, like, electrolyte sachets in my pocket, and I, in grandmas, I grabbed the water cups and, like, dumped them into it. I had no idea what I was doing.

And just like little chews. And I ate like five of them throughout the race. Were you training fasted? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't think I ever took anything. Maybe like ate a banana before and just had no idea. And I would, all my long runs, I remember at that point, all of my long runs 15 to 18 miles, I would be laid out on the couch for the rest of the day.

Like, Sabria, my wife talks about it. And she's just like, I was ready to like kill you. Like that you, that you just couldn't, you were just a zombie the rest of the day. And I would just like sort of be able to. And it was, it was not good. I look back and I'm like, that was, that was foolish. Yeah, you weren't, you weren't giving enough to her, to the family. And it was that transitional.

I mean, we were, we had young kids at that point too. And that was another part of like, if I'm actually going to do this, I need to do it right. Because this is not sustainable at all. I can't be this dad. You know, like, cool. You're going for a hard goal, but if you can't actually be available or useful at all at home, we absolutely can't do this.

So that's a big part. She's like, you do need to figure this out. So, yeah, once the fitness started growing, fueling, replenishing, understanding that, getting enough calories in, then I started bouncing back from long runs. and I was able to actually be alive after those. And so I guess for everyone, it's a, you got to figure that out for yourself if, you know, you're going to have much more success with doing it the right way early on instead of just turning into that zombie.

I think that's why we've seen the sport explode the last three years because people are actually fueling and recovering correctly in the way that no one was doing in the space really at all prior. Like everything before 2020, like, you know, you hear all the stories of marathoning from 2000 to about that time. Everyone was like, I ate a banana and drank some water and I gritted it out. But now you're seeing this volume of people run the times they are. Even 2024, if I ran the time I did with my 229, I would have been around 100th place. This year at Boston, I ran 229, and I was like 360th. So like so many people are figuring it out and progressing in that same way, which is really cool. cool to see. Yeah, the competitive advantage you can get from proper training and nutrition and

fueling. I mean, everyone now is an athlete. Yeah. Like, we are training as regular people, dads, family men, business owners. We are training at the caliber of some professional athletes. One of the things that Sally McRae told me years ago that I'll never forget, because she's a professional athlete. She's a professional runner. I am not. She's like, Nick, you train, you eat, you have the mindset of a professional, whether you are or not.

You don't have to be a professional athlete to live the lifestyle because we can fuel properly. We can train properly. We can recover properly. We can work. out and structure our programs properly now to keep making progress in the sport. So I've really leaned into that. I mean, I love being an athlete. It is not necessarily my job. It is part of my job. But I love the lifestyle. I love the lifestyle. I love my early morning

runs. I love my strength training, high rock sessions in the afternoon. I love structuring my meals to facilitate the results I want, the recovery, the fuel. But I remember those early days of starting to run, not understanding proper nutrition and fueling. I mean, just like you, I vividly remember one of my first 10-mile runs ever. It was downtown Austin around Lady Bird Lake,

and 10 miles to me, it felt like 100 miles. Yeah. I plan my whole day around it. Oh, yeah. I'm going down there. I'm running 10 miles and afterwards I'm eating whatever I want

because I probably burn 10,000 calories I remember finishing this run being smoked going to whole foods I got like two smoothies I hit the hot bar I went to dinner that night I'm like

yo we're going all out today because I ran 10 miles and then you know you get this in these marathon training blocks and it's 10 miles for breakfast before the kids wake up it's just part of part of it. But nutrition is one of those things that we are in control of and that we can leverage

and utilize to our advantage to get better. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's it's not just a gimmick. It really is not. And all the studies prove it. And yeah, I was talking to the crew on my morning session today. It's so individualized when you start getting to your fastest times and what you are capable of. So for me, like, I still struggle with nausea late in a marathon race. And so what I realized and what was such an unlock for me in Boston, I'm still learning every single race is, you know, like everyone talks about trying to hit 100 grams of carbs an hour in a marathon now or even more. And people in ultras are doing like 120, 140. Pros are doing that much, but they have bottles. And there's only so much you could do as an amateur withholding something.

So I had a handheld that I tossed. but that was what helped me in Boston get 100 grams down in the first hour, and then I sparse it out the last two-thirds, or whatever percentage was left. And for me, like, understanding that I could get the majority of what I needed in that first hour when it was palatable, and I wasn't on my limit, was what I need to do personally. And that's only realized in doing the thing over and over

and training it that way to then go, oh, I actually can and then I proved that I can and not forcing myself to try to get to a hundred an hour but dialing it in to exactly what I need to get the outcome because there were times where I'm like, this might have a diminishing return if I'm trying to put too much down and I'm focusing on it too much as taking me out of the mental game. And so I love that game as well

and then seeing how personalized it can be for some people because some people just have iron stomachs and they can just rip through it and take down a ton of, hunt. So yeah, really fascinating. And then part of that is carb load as well and how aggressive you go there. I had huge stomach issues in 24, Chicago 24, because I went crazy aggressive on the load. I was like 800 plus on each day, the two days leading up. And now I kind of sit in like 600 to 650. And that's my sweet spot. And so now it's like, okay, we kind of figured that out, repeat that, adjust the training, a few more variables. Let's do this.

the next one. I love the carb load. I have my carb load dialed down. Where if it's a Sunday race, I'm carb loading. I'm ramping up Wednesday. I hit Thursday, Friday really hard. Saturday, I eat as normal. And then Sunday, obviously, race day. And I shoot for between 700, 800 grams on those big days, but I know what sources work for me. It's low fiber. I lower protein. I lower dietary fat. It's It's foods that digest very quickly, very easily. I don't have any GI distress. I always have my big meal two to three hours before the marathon. So I know it digest very well.

GM sport, go bars, go gels. I'm loading up on electrolytes because on my first couple of marathons, they made the mistake of loading up on water the days leading up to, but didn't add enough electrolytes. So I was flushing and diluting all my natural electrolytes stores. Cramped even worse. but once you dial in that plan you know for me

I consume significant I'd say moderate carbs during the actual race when I'm doing a marathon but I know that going into the race my glycogen is topped off

you know we can store a lot of carbs in our muscle a little bit in our liver as muscle glycogen but a lot of people don't give themselves time to top off that glycogen glycogen because from the time you consume the carbs it takes 24 hours at least

to digest, break down, assimilate into glycogen. So it's that, you know, a famous office scene with Michael Scott eating the chicken out al-Fredo right before the race. That is the opposite thing to do. But the carb load makes a big difference. And I'm also fascinated to see hybrid model and guys of your size because then you start to wonder, like, can you retain more muscle glycogen? For sure. And so your carb load is even more important, and then intra-race feeling isn't as important. That's really fascinating to me.

Whereas, like, if I don't have as much muscle mass, I might need to rely on that intra-race-fueling more, and then you might need to focus more. That's a good point. On the carb load. I talked to Trevor about that, my friend, who's a hybrid athlete as well. And he, I think he went three gels at Boston and ran 228, but he called him. heart-loaded hard. And so we started kind of contemplating that. It's like, that's really fascinating that you could potentially store more because the people, the number of people talk about is 2,000

calories. Your body can hold 2,000 calories. But that's obviously going to be dependent on your size, your mass, and your muscle to fat ratio and all that stuff. And that's going to be very nuanced for people of your size versus, you know, someone who's 130 pounds. So, yeah, I think that's all really fascinating and then how much how many calories you're burning for mile because then that number is like around 100 calories per mile but are you burning more and am i burning more you have to really figure that out for yourself that's why again individualizing that fueling for yourself is critically important to figure out over those years that you're progressing yeah it's so individually specific so if someone would have told you in 2017

they came up to you and said hey if you keep at this for nearly 10 years, you'll run a 229 marathon. What would you have said back in 2017? No chance. Yeah. Especially at that time, too, like 229 in Chicago probably would have been like top 60 or something. I'd have been like, that's not. There's no way.

Yeah. Yeah. And also, again, at that time, like marathoning wasn't as popular and people weren't progressing like that at that time. and there wasn't as many people doing it. So I think it's a really fascinating thought experiment. But I think what's really cool is when you document that, it just makes people realize their potential as well

and seeing that kind of progression and being like, oh, maybe it is possible for me too. And I'm still always playing that game. I don't know what my ceiling is. And really the past two years, I was like, I think I'm plateauing. Like, this is getting pretty difficult to try to chip off more time. I did...

How old are you now? 34, going 35 this year. And that's another interesting thing. It's like, as we're seeing more people fuel and recover correctly, you start seeing people extend how far they can get their lifetime PR like into their 40s even. And that's also attributed to lack of burnout and early, you know, in 20s, early 30s, but progressing through at the ages we are now, like through the 30s

into 40s. And yeah, that proper fueling, that proper recovery is starting to, I think, extend people's ability to get that lifetime PR and stack even more before there's a diminishing return and aging out. But yeah, I never, I never imagined that that would be possible. And, Now we're trying to explore, okay, I mean, I can be pretty pessimistic with seeing what my potential might be. I try to play devil's advocate quite a bit. And that was actually huge for me with Boston. That friend Trevor, he's just like, you are capable of doing this. You realize, right?

Like, we've been hanging in the same workouts. You do have what it takes to break 230. You have to believe that you can. So now it's becoming mental in that process and not sandbagging my effort. and really actually believing myself that I can do it. Because, yeah, past two years, from 24 to 25, fall to spring, I only took off a minute. And then that spring to fall, I only took off seven seconds.

And it was pretty deflating. You're like, cool, got a PR. But, man, all that work for seven seconds was like, oh, dang. And that's a whole separate conversation, too. It's like, you cannot discredit. You still ran the fastest marathon you ever have. They might be essentially the same time, but don't discredit that effort. But then to double back the next season and almost take off three minutes, I'm like, oh, okay, now I'm back in this thought experiment of, wait, can I do that again?

Yeah, maybe there is more. Maybe I can get down to low 220s. Maybe I can break 220. I don't know. And the only way you can find out is testing it and doing it. there's no way I can like take two years off now maybe and then come back and try to do that as long as similar to you like I love this process I love seeing what my potential is I love running I love the community of it too like running with other people now and and coaching other

people and I major marathon weekends are like some of my favorite weekends ever and just the the excitement surrounding it Yeah, it's cool to see. And like I said, even if I don't progress more, I'm still super happy with what I've done so far. You can't be mad. No. And just that was the biggest thing for me in Boston,

I think was the massive unlock of believing that I could do it and then just leaning into gratitude like I couldn't believe. And just being like, man, I'm so, so grateful to just be here to do this, to have these experiences. is coming off the the tale of my grandfather passing away and just a really heavy moment for my family

and just like, man, this is living, this is life, this is what I get to do and man, it's a blessing and I'm just so, so happy and thankful that I can. And every opportunity I get from here on out, like having had that experience and accomplishing what I did, there's no way I'm walking into any race

without like complete gratitude. And just be like, oh, man, What a privilege blessing it is to train this hard and show my family, show my kids. And we're going to Berlin all together this fall. So they're going to see Salway run. Just broke the world record. And they're so stoked to see that because I woke them up at like 5 a.m. When they broke two, I ran upstairs.

It was like shaking them in bed. Like, roll record, roll record. They came downstairs. And yeah, it was really cool to experience that. It's just, yeah, all of it's so fun. If you look back at these last couple years where you've made significant progress, what would you attribute to seeing the biggest improvements in your times? You know, was it, I'm sure, a combination, nutrition and fueling, training volume and intensity? But then I also want to talk about you brought it up, the mindset.

because I look at so many athletes, maybe not necessarily professional athletes, but people who train really hard, who do these races, it might be part of their job, maybe they're a crater, and they have a really great performance. And then it's years and years and years of missing the goal

and digressing and injury and decline, And you have to sit back and watch this and be like, what's going on? Is it the coach? Everyone wants to blame the coach. It must be the coach. It needs a new coach. Or is it the mindset? Is there a lack of confidence?

Is there a doubt that is holding them back from unlocking that next level? So with all that being said, what do you think has made the biggest difference in your marathon training and performance? I think it can be attributed to satisfaction. like with with the performance. It's that I may be frustrated that I didn't hit the exact time I wanted to, but I'm really thankful that I got a new time. And we were discussing before the pod, like, I actually allow myself to take a month where I just have no pressure on myself,

kind of eat what I want, hang out, chill out. And I really feel like that time, especially like a bit more fat consumption, I feel like my hormone regulation gets back in. No, I haven't done blood tests or studies in that time, but I allow myself to get out of shape just enough that by the end of that month, that fire is kind of lit back in me. And I think a lot of people,

they feel that dissatisfaction, and they just jump right back into training. And especially for marathoning, there's tons of studies that talk about how, you know, like the typical thing they say is for every day, every day is attributed to a mile in the race for recovery. So you need 26 days before you're actually fully recovered and then you can go back into building back volume and training.

Before I go into the nitty gritty of all of that, I think family and what's most important to you is deeply foundational to many people in this process because if you're not careful about that, you turn into 2020 version of me where I'm laid out on the couch. So for me with my wife, I did a whole segment. with her in our fall series last fall, where I interviewed her. And she talked about frustrations with my training and just, and so many spouses came up to me and race weekends. And she'd be like, I loved Sabrina time and like hearing her thoughts and feelings.

And we all feel this way. And it's a song and dance that we're constantly having to do. But the thread of success for us and our marriage and our family is that we're constantly communicating about expectations where I'm at with training. if I need to adjust stuff. You know, if I felt like I needed more sleep the night before, I might sleep in that day. And then I talk to her and go,

I'm bringing the boys into the gym today. We're going to, I'm going to run my run on the treadmill, but I'm going to be with them and we split time. And just being adaptable and change in that way. That's not often that that happens, but constantly just talking about what's around the corner, what I'm doing, how I will be training,

and not just leave her guessing. And so then when I, I progress into more volume, when I progress into more intensity, I know that that's okay and that we're communicating. I'm like, okay, I'm going to be back by 7.7.15. We'll be ready to go once kids start waking up. But functionally, as I've seen the progression, for me, it's been a lot of, a lot more long run workouts. It's doing goal marathon pace or faster within volume. That's 16 miles plus all the way up to the 22 and not being afraid of those workouts, not going in with fear and just being like, this is a pretty normal thing that I do within blocks. And then,

you know, whether Jeff wants to be mad at me for doing more of them or not. But I feel like for me, adding a few more within the block has been really foundational to building that fitness. And then the mental strength of going into a race being like, I practice this so many times on fatigued legs in harsh circumstances. Trevor and I did multiple long run workouts at a spot by us. It's a nine mile loop, but it almost perfectly mirrors the Boston course with elevation. There's this huge 150 foot climb on the backside of the loop. And we just, we ran it at night. Even he got off of a shift and then we went and ran it at night. And it was just one of the gnarliest mental battles I've ever had in a long run workout.

but it gave me that confidence. Like, I was wrecked by the end of it and just, yeah. But then going into the race, I was like, we did do that. And we did a handful of other ones like that. And then it actually made Boston feel really palatable. And while we were racing it, we were fortunate enough to be racing it together. So it just felt like another one of those long run workouts. How big was your prep for Boston?

I actually pulled volume back a little bit. and then just increased intensity more. So hammering Jeff's Wednesday workouts regularly. But I did probably out of the 12 weeks of prep, I probably did eight or nine long run workouts. And then just a lot. This is like 20 plus miles? Yeah.

Most of them were like 18 to 22. And they all had in and around marathon pace intervals within them or unbroken stretches like that one we did that I just referenced. We progressed into the first 12 miles, 14 miles and then we did 10 unbroken at marathon pace on crushed limestone with hills in the dark. And yeah, that one in particular felt like a huge unlock for me. And it's something I had never really done before in a training block. I'm starting to realize if I want to go for these even faster times,

there needs to be some of that mental game where I'm feeling the confidence of actually doing that within a workout, succeeding in it, or at least trying, and then going for that hard thing in the race. And what was during those 12 weeks, what did weekly volume get to, mileage-wise? I don't think I ever really went over 85 miles a week on that prep, so I was mostly in the 70 to 85-mile range, whereas the fall, the previous build, I was at pretty much 90 miles every week. and so I'm starting to realize that my overall marathon periodization is it's really helpful for me to extend volume up, challenge myself with a new stimulus of more volume with kind of the same intensity, and then draw it back with less volume, more intensity, and then this phase, this next season, I'm going to try to rubber band back up to do more volume, try to nail 90 to 100 miles a week. and that might mean less long run workouts, but I'm going to extend that volume up

so that the next adaptation might be less volume from there. Maybe I go back down to 80, 85, but then increase the intensity again. And in the middle of that, I'm doing a lot of speed training. So, like, I did winter of speed in between these two blocks where I was going for fast mile time. I was running 5K races or time trials on my treadmill and really working top-end 200-meter neuromuscular stimulus.

And that seemed to work. I'm going to do it more this summer, race some more doing 10K next week, some more 5K races, another mile race, and then go back into volume. So when you finish a race, you have the month or so of a delode, resetting, allowing yourself to recover.

cover, after that month is over and you start training again, before you get into a prep, what does your off season look like? How are you structuring the week, workouts? What does that maintenance or build look like before the actual 12 week prep? I think that's what's interesting for me is I never really look at us 12 to 16 week forecast and go, I am starting the block. Like it starts now. I think I come out of that month phase where in that month phase I'm doing 30 to 40 miles a week and 90 to 95% easy running. And I might do a little fart look here or there or some steady running, maybe do a long run of 14 miles. And then once I get out of that month, then I start pushing myself a little bit more. And then relative to when my next race is, I just kind of start pushing on the gas and accelerating into that. And I'm still right now, I'm kind of like, yeah, the Berlin block has started, but it's also, I don't really see like my formal Berlin block starting until a month from now, because right now I'm still periodizing with speed, and I'm still trying to hit speed races, you know, 10K down to mile. And I even

tested out a 400 meter all out the other day, and that was fascinating. But yeah, it's more of like this ramp up into like really working top end speed and then like coming back into marathon volume from there. And so to me a lot a lot of times I look at it and I just go fitness as fitness. And you can really obsess over like, okay, today I have 12, 800s and it needs to be that, da, da, da, da, da. But today I even said at the track while we were filming it, it's just like consistency for me is showing up and doing whatever I can in the moment. to finish what's going to be quality in that day. So even if I don't hit that second set the way I thought I was or the way I was going to be prescribed,

the variables, I'm not feeling it, whatever, I'm going to do what I can to make sure that I'm at threshold or critical velocity area today in the reps that I can with the rest that I need because the body only knows what you feed it and the stimulus. It doesn't know what times you're running. True. It doesn't care. That's all mental. And so when you can actually get the work done then,

and progress through that, then that's where I zoom way out. And I go, may not have been good on paper, may have been really messy, but my body got the fitness, move on. Yeah. And then you'll have like a really good morning where it's really cool. And you carved up really well the day before. You were really dialed in and then you just absolutely obliterate that workout. And then you're like, great. Got the physical stimulus, but I also got the mental stimulus on that one.

Mm-hmm. So what changes? I remember watching you the last few years, like last couple years, really being intentional with your nutrition. Yeah. They track your macros, consuming more carbohydrates. What have you seen that done to your performance and recovery? I'll go through like seasons, ebbs and flows of doing it really hard or not.

And I've really come to the realization that if I'm militant about it all the time, that's recipe for burnout for me. But I'll do it when I feel. inspired to do so. And then relatively, at least I know what those numbers are now, so that I can mimic it when I need to, when I'm not tracking it to the T. But it was so transformative for me to actually get into an app and just see where everything was going and how everything is broken down. What did you learn about yourself in terms of how you were previously eating before being intentional with it? What were you, were you overconsuming?

one macronutrient, under-consuming calories? Yeah, I was under-consuming protein like crazy. I think I was pretty good on carbs, but I was over-consuming fat, I think, as well. I really came to realize that a certain amount of fat was going to be good enough for hormone regulation, but it just felt like I was wasting calories on too much fat in the diet, and it would be much better to hit a protein goal and a carb goal,

with keeping the fats at a certain regulation point so that I could be recovering and fueling for the next thing. Where was your fat coming from? I'd say granola in, I would do like a Greek yogurt bowl, nuts here and there. I really just looked at it as, I wasn't like going for the healthy fats. I was just looking at really clean, if you will, carbon protein sources and fat kind of being

just naturally in it. Exactly. Added on. And then just making sure I'm not like, I get to the end of the day and I'm at like 65 and I'm like, ice cream's right there. And I'm like, I'm going to pass on it. And when I'm in that phase, I'm really tracking, I'll say no to that stuff. But when I'm not, I will say yes to that and indulge a bit.

but I think really it's all just dependent on on how I'm feeling and how it's shaping my mentality going in because I obsessed a little bit about race weight and what that could look like and I think people just need to be really careful with that because it could if you get hormone regulation out of whack or your iron gets out of whack you see people just get obliterated are you familiar with reds yes yes like relative energy deficiency syndrome. It's huge with runners, especially female runners. Obsessing over body weight and performance. To be so careful. It's very, very dangerous. Yeah. So I naturally, in the volume that I'm running, I naturally kind of melt away a couple of pounds into the taper. And we were talking about, you know, inflammation, all that stuff coming down after the intensity starts to taper off. And yeah, I try. try not to make it like too critical of a thing. I'll step on the scale here and there just to kind of see where I'm at. Like right now I'm about five pounds over race weight. And I know that with a little

bit of consistency of tracking throughout this block and then getting into the taper that I'll probably be backed down to. I'm usually around 157 for race weight. I'm sitting about 161, 162 now. Yeah, I could probably get to 230 pounds by next month if I wanted to. And that's driven by my love for like ribby steaks avocado peanut butter peanut butter that's it

egg yolks like peanut butter so much fat and peanut butter it's so much fat and especially I weigh everything and I don't

track my calories but I weigh foods just so I can portion control I'll weigh my carbs and my protein and if I'm putting peanut butter on something

I'll just throw the peanut butter draw on the scale I'll tear it. I'll pull off 32 grams, which is a serving, two tablespoons. But granola, for example.

We don't even get granola in the house anymore because we used to buy purely Elizabeth granola. If you weigh out a serving of that, it is pathetic how small it is. It is easy to consume a thousand of calories of granola. Yeah, like nuts, cashews, macadamia nuts. Way on a serving, you're like,

What the heck? Holy smokes. I have 800 calories. So yeah, that's, I could easily gain weight because I love, I don't, I don't gravitate towards French fries and burgers and pizza and chips. But mine is the avocado, the egg yolk, butter on toast. I wish I could be that way. You know what I mean?

I love the fries. That's what I'm like gravitating towards. For a while after Iron Man prep was over, I was having a large avocado. before bed every night. And I'd cut it open, I'd take the seed out, I'd put everything but the bagel season on it. Like, man, I don't need 30 grams of fat before bed. I'm gonna cut this out.

So I do feel better on high protein, high carb, lower fat myself, especially as I go into a training block. Yeah, I won't cut things out like frosted shredded wheat. Like, I feel like that's perfectly fine for like ripping on hard workouts. like carb, carb heavy. And I think allowing myself to have some of those things that I love in life, like, it's just a balance for me. I don't ever want to be so critical that I'm just not enjoying life. If I get too disciplined, I'm just not going to love the process. And so allowing myself to have some of those things and enjoy and live a bit is, I love it. And it's part of, to me, it's a

benefit of training really hard. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to have a bowl of frosted Yeah, fuel of fire. Yeah. Dude, when I was in Iron Man prep, I'd finish every night, 9 p.m., massive bowl of cereal. Oh, yeah. Like, cereal during preps is one of my favorite things. So good. Yeah.

You need the carbs, you need to replenish. You need a fuel. And you're not going to get all of it from chicken, rice, and broccoli. No. It's impossible. No. I do want to talk a little bit about, you know, you touched on it briefly, but balancing training with family. and being a dad and being a committed husband,

it's hard. And I made this post a few days ago. I had this realization. I used to feel guilty for being tired. Yeah. And I don't have many hobbies or passions outside of my work, my family, my health and fitness. Can't.

None. and you know you finish a day and your head hits a pillow it's like you know I'm exhausted exhausted I used to feel I used to feel bad for being tired and I did an audit of my life

and I realize that I'm prioritizing the things that matter to me I don't have all of these guilty obsessions and hobbies that are that lack purpose or intention.

And instead of feeling bad for being tired, I got to be grateful. I'm working hard. I'm working hard to provide for my family and be present and play with my kids and lead a team and take care of my body and prep my meals and my food and my nutrition. So I was flipping the script of,

you know, we're going to be tired, especially people with kids pursuing passions and career and family that's just part of it there's really no way to escape it and it's being grateful for being tired but how do you manage handle feel about balancing family and these personal fitness ambitions and work and all the things of the season of life you're in right now. Yeah. I try not to beat myself up too much and, like, make myself feel shameful. But whenever I feel too tired to go play Wiffball in the backyard or too tired to do crazy

pillow game, which is like my young ones, like, we have our go-toes, you know, like, and they'll ask me pretty frequently to do it. Part of me just has tried to develop a reflex of say yes. Just say yes immediately. But then it's to, you know, you have that tension of I am really tired. I am really fatigued. I did just XYZ. But then I always go back to you have much less to stand on in that argument because you are training and are fit enough to be able to go do this right now.

So for me, it's constantly trying to just say yes without. even thinking about it and then just figuring it out as you go. It's so similar to your training. You know, you don't want to wake up. You don't want to do the miles that day. And so often you get a couple in and you're like, oh, I feel fine now. And it's the same way with playing with your kids and spending time in that way. We're pulling out a board game. We've got to figure out the rules. I'm like, I really don't want to do this right now. But then you get 20 minutes into it. and all of a sudden you're having a blast. You're like, this never would have happened if I didn't just say the yes and actually just

committed in the same way. And yeah, like, I love that feeling of, again, that metaphor of I do this daily for the thing that I care about, then they need that from me as well. They need that more than I need that for myself. That actually needs to come first before I say yes to do my thing. And if I'm saying no to them, then I need to say no to my training if that's what's affecting it. So, yeah, I love that idea of I'm feeling really beat up. I had 15 miles on the lake.

I did a double. And the boys are like, we're doing, right now we're in a wiffle ball tournament league in the backyard. We just played our first game before I left for the trip and didn't want to play the first game. Started playing. And now of a sudden, it was just a blast. And I'm forgetting how tired I am. present in the moment. And then again, like perfect compounding effect of saying yes in all those situations is what builds your relationship with your kids. It's what builds your relationship

with your marriage, saying yes to date and I doing the thing, consistently going after it. So the point where like my nine-year-old is never really like showing affection. He's kind of a bro in that way. You know, he's trying not to be emotional and stuff. And last night, he's, he had to face-time me. He's just like, man, I miss you. I'm like, whoa. It just feels like this, it feels like all the work that was done leads to moments like that. Whereas like, he, he feels the weight of my absence for a little bit, you know.

And, yeah, it's just deeply special and far more special than any kind of time I'm going to run. And I, you know, we'll frequently talk about the thought experiment. of what's going to be under gravestone. It's just like, I don't care if it says 229 marathon or my gravestone. I really don't care. I really wanted to say loving husband and father who dedicated himself selflessly

to them and what they accomplished in their life. Yeah, it's one of the things I've changed the last couple years by training is I used to reserve Saturdays, especially before kids, for my big workout days. You know, it's like, didn't have work, wake up a little bit later,

go for a huge run or whatever I'm prepping for. That was my big training day. And then as we started having kids and the family grew, I now view Saturday and Sunday. Those are my sacred days. I look forward to the weekends so much to spend time with the family, especially in the summer we're by the pool. I want all the energy.

Yeah. I want all the focus. I want all my attention there. So I put my bigger training days during the week if I have one. And when I finish my run Saturday morning, because I'll go for a one-hour run Saturday morning, I don't train on Sundays right now. I finish that run Saturday morning.

It's say 6.30 a.m. The family's not up yet. I'm like, okay, from here until Monday morning, it is all family time. They get all of me. And that's a shift that I made over the last couple years that I found very helpful. Yeah. It's deeply transformative and powerful to show up regularly and just be present and find ways similarly. I think I mentioned it earlier.

The commute to my studio to collaborate with a full-time employee meant that I was spending an hour and a half in the car every day. And I really had to sit back and think, is this worth? the return. And I eventually just thought it's just not to have that bit of extra time. Or even now, I can't pursue the same business goals I once did because now I coach both of the boys' baseball teams. And that's a lot. It really is a lot to, we have four days of baseball a week in the evenings. And it's a huge time commitment. It's a lot of parent communication and just, you know, doing the not fun things. But man, like the depths of relationship we are building through that is insane, and the character building. Like, my oldest is on a team of kids that

handful of them never played baseball before. And my boys have been playing, you know, for five years now. And he's learning what it looks like to be a leader on a team like that where he's not criticizing them, but lifting them up and figuring out how, he can be a leader himself and me guiding it without, you know, barking at him, just kind of guiding him through it and like, hey, we won that game. Why do you think we did? And helping him realize those life lessons is really magical. What do you hope your kids take away from your training and your marathon progress

as they watch you wake up early and log miles and make progress and hit these PRs? And, you know, after all said and done, 20 years from now, you guys are at the Thanksgiving table. And they're like, yeah, we learned this from dad. You know, an example, before I handed it over to you, I remember being young. My dad getting him from work, getting out of his car. He'd have his lifting belt in his hand. He's wearing a stringer tank top. Music was blaring.

He just got back from the gym. I knew dad goes to work, he goes to the gym before he gets home, he trains, and he comes home ready to eat, and then it's family time. And then every morning as we're eating our breakfast, my dad's doing 100 push-ups in the kitchen. And I learned that for my dad. So do you want your kids to take away from your training? Yeah, I don't think it needs to be that they feel the need to go run. but yeah I really I really want them to understand that whatever discipline it is it's deeply transformative in life to have some sort of physical activity that gets you outside and helps you experience life in a way that you wouldn't otherwise and I even look at the relationships I've built and the experiences I've had with going to these major events and seeing what it's like and now them being at an age, pretty much every peak race, they're there. And now we get to all go to Berlin together.

And I can't wait to have that experience around that together. I never want it to be something that's exclusively my thing. Like we ran the Cubs 5K, which is a great combination of the things we love. We got to do a lap around Wrigley Field inside of the race. And they just were like so stoked on that. I really want them to realize that they can pursue that stuff in their own life, and it's not, it doesn't have to be a selfish pursuit, but that it can be complimentary to the things that are most important. And that might manifest in running. They've showed some interest in that, but my nine-year-old's like such a gym bro. He's constantly asking me every single day to go to the gym and deadlift and do pull-ups, and he'll do that pretty regularly. he'll bench while I'm running. He's nine. And he's just, he just loves it. I love that. Yeah. So like, it's pretty crazy because my oldest doesn't feel that way about the gym. And he likes running a lot more. And he'll go run seven miles on the treadmill here and there, just alone solo. And it's just really cool to see them find their own personality and what they might want to do fitness-wise. Because, you know, you know, Yeah, like I said, just coming from a family that didn't really take it seriously and now seeing the compounding effects of health decades down the line. I'm just like, man, isn't it great to be, I want to be like wrestling their kids. I want my grandkids to be doing really fun active things with me as well. And so there's something really powerful about that. Like I want to be able to hold them for as long as I can and carry them on my shoulders. And, you know,

know, like, I want to be a grandfather that is deeply involved as well and helping them, you know, and be able to handle the taking them for a weekend or a week. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I always find it cool when there's someone in a family line who is one of the first to take health and fitness serious because it is a generational inflection point that that pays off for generations to come. Yeah. and it's hard to feel and see that in the moment, but it's so powerful.

And truly a generational inflection point. It's recently too, like I've come to realize there's alcoholism in my family as well. And while it was never an issue for me, it's been just over a year now. I saw you talk about that recently. Yeah, I've been sober for over a year now. There's always casual beer here and there, glass-red wine at dinner. And yeah, I'm just kind of at a point where it's never been a problem for me, so I'm not abstaining from it in a way where it's like, I have to,

but it's more so like I just don't desire to because I can see the effects between personal friendships and stuff that's gone down in family. I'm like, I just don't really feel the need to open that door. And my kids are starting to see it now. I'm talking to them about it a bit. Just like, yeah, I'm just choosing not to really drink at all. I like my NA beers. They're nice.

I like the taste of them. They're really good now. Like, there's some really, really good enabres. And then that just compounds as well in my training. I'm like, great. That's another added benefit to me not needing to struggle with recovery because I had a drink or two. Yeah.

So, yeah, I think that could also be very, transformative and then seeing that. And I think the reality is, I mean, there are all sorts of variables and things that can cause disruption relationally or addiction. You could be a really great father and you could still see your kid struggle with that in life. And then it's a matter of, am I going to abandon them or am I going to walk with them through that? And so just really starting to prep myself for those potentially really difficult moments as well. You see plenty of parents who have kids that really struggle with stuff and you're like, that looks really hard. But again, we do hard things and we walk with them through that and we're available and present for them

in that tough spot. Well, Eric, it's been awesome to see your progress. Thanks, man. I'm pumped to have you on the BPN team and really excited to see where you take the marathon. Yeah. You know, I think there's a lot of progress and potential well faster than 229, but we're fully behind you and support you. Thank you. So I appreciate you, brother. I appreciate you. It's been so transformative to be on the team and see what that potential could be and to be supported in the way you guys have supported me these past three years. Yeah, just being able to make it my job to run and document it has just been.

an absolute dream. Like I, that's another, I guess that's probably bigger than someone in 2017 being like, you were going to run 229. You're like, no, this is going to be your job to do this. I'm like, what? You know, even, even a couple years ago, I've been like, what are you talking about? But to see that that support has manifested in so many people, you know, doing the same and wanting to see what's possible for them has been incredible.

So thank you. Thank you, dude. Yeah.