The Nick Bare Podcast - Archive - Rocky Raccoon Ultramarathon Race Recap

Episode Date: February 21, 2022

In this episode, host Nick Bare is joined by BPN's Creative Director Jordan Utter to recount both their experiences running the Rocky Raccoon Ultramarathon which was held on February 5th, 2022.   This is Nick's second 100 mile ultramarathon, and the first race he has run since the Leadville 100 in August of 2021.  Jordan ran the 100 kilometer race on the same course to complete his first ultra. The two share insight into how they approached training, nutrition, and mindset for their respective races, and how their individual experiences differed throughout the weekend.   More Resources: BPN website: www.bpnsupps.com Nick Bare website: www.nickbare.com Instagram: www.instagram.com/nickbarefitness Youtube: www.youtube.com/user/barelifenutrition

In this episode of the Bear Performance Podcast, yeah, I mean, that's my favorite part of the, of any race is when it's dark, you don't see anything, but your feet in front of you based off your headlamp. And it's like, it's one of those things where who are you when no one else can see you or no one else is watching? What do you do? How does your character hold up? How does your mind hold up? And that's where you learn a lot about yourself is no one else sees you. you. No one else cares what you're wearing or can tell what you're wearing or what you look like when you're running or if you're crying or if you're smiling. It is your time to work on yourself and find out what you're capable of. Welcome back to another powerful episode of the podcast. I'm your host, Nick Baer, founder and CEO of Bear Performance Nutrition. Every week

we bring you insightful stories, knowledge, and inspiration to help you reach your full potential in life, fitness, and business. If you enjoy the message we're promoting in this podcast, we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave a rating and review on the platform you're listening to. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss out on future episodes that embody the Go One More Mindset. This is the Rocky Raccoon recap with BPN media director, Jordan Utter.

What's up? Welcome back to the show. I'm excited for this. It's going to be good. So this one, this one's kind of full circle. Me and Jordan are going to wrap up. Rocky Raccoon. I did the 100 miler.

Jordan did the 100K, which equates to about 60 miles. His first ultra, my second ultra. And the reason I signed up for Rocky Raccoon, I didn't even know about Rocky Raccoon. I think it was like a week after Leadville 100. And you texted me saying, here's this race. And you literally sent me the race link while I was driving home. And at a stop sign, I signed it for the race and committed to it.

It's amazing. Sorry, Steph. I just go ahead and apologize to your wife because I knew you were looking for the next big thing. And I was like, oh, this is right up next alley. Here we go. So what made you decide you wanted to do an ultra? Oh, man. In short, Leadville.

Dude. Leadville was, it was amazing. It was an experience and an adventure that I'll never forget, but more than anything, seeing you do it and complete it, literally the day after maybe that night, I was like, when is the last time I've made the choice to do something that was so overwhelming and so scary that I was like, I don't know if I can actually do this. Even no matter how much I prep, no matter how much I felt ready for it, that I would still have, not doubt, but still this curiosity, I guess you could call it, or just a longing of

like, can I, am I actually capable of this? And so for me, 100 miles was a little bit of a stretch for a little background. I've never even done a marathon. So signing up for the 100K, but a little bit more in my wheelhouse. And yeah, dude, just the looking for that, that crazy thing, at least for me, it's all relative. That was just so big and scary that I knew would push me and I'd find out a lot about myself, a lot about myself, which I'm sure, we'll dig into the lessons learned, but yeah, that's it in a nutshell, short. I think it's a good way to describe it as it's relative. Yeah.

And one of my favorite quotes is comparison is a thief of joy. Yep. And relative, everything's relative. Yep. Like what's hard for me might not be hard for you. What's hard for you might not be hard for me. and I think the ultracine or running or even fitness in general, it is a drug.

It's a drug in a sense of you get this big burst and dump of dopamine during, before, after all the feelings. But at the same time, it is that question of, can I do this? Yeah. Like, is this out of my capabilities and possibilities? Yep. And then you go and do it. And it's that second hit of that drug where it's, oh, I did do this.

Yep. What else can I do? Absolutely. And you keep pushing and you keep pushing. But it's almost like a chemical dependency where the dose needs to become bigger and bigger and bigger. And that's how the challenge grows and grows and grows. So what used to be hard for you, maybe it was a five mile run, then it was a half marathon. And then you were like, screw it, I'm going full send.

ultramarathon and now I'm sure you're sitting back saying I can do a hundred mileer. Yep. No, that wraps it up great. I mean, absolutely. I started running maybe off and on like two years ago. And yeah, I remember me and my wife now, I'm with Kayla. We would do like a four mile run and we would get done.

And I was like, oh, I need a chocolate milk or something. I'm toast. Like, I need calories. And that's awesome. Like, that's where we were at the time. And now that aerobic. base is just built and a four mile run is just I mean now you know the minimum I do is like a five mile run it's just normal um and I had to keep reminding myself of that prep because coming off that

high of leadville seeing you seeing all these people from every age and background doing leadville 100 miles in some of the most intense environment and terrain sometimes I would creep in and be like who am I, I'm doing a 62 mile race. Who am I? Like, that's not a big deal. Who am I? And, but then I had to remind myself, like, no, it's all relative. Look where you started. Look where you're at. This is your journey. Run your own race, you know, type of mindset. So yeah, to your point, like, everything's relative. And when you start to compare, you start to rob yourself of that joy during that process. And when you complete that race or whatever that adventure might look like for you. Well, it's like we had the BPN marathon three weeks ago.

And something happened there. Like I experienced something there that I will never forget the rest of my life. And it's all about relativity. So I met this, this couple, this married couple. And the husband for his birthday this year, he wanted to run the, I think he did the half marathon. He wanted to run the half marathon, BPN's going more marathon. and his wife, who wasn't a runner, never was, wanted to be there and support him and do it with him.

So they trained together for 16, 20 weeks for this half marathon. And I could see when I met her the day before the race, the passion, to support her husband in her eyes and the way she talked. And I saw her across the finish line the next morning. she was crying and like bursts of joy and she said that was the hardest thing she'd ever done in her life. But it was the most fulfilling

and I guarantee she didn't stop running after that race. Yeah, absolutely. And they did that together. You know, so it's all relative. She might be looking back three years you know, from now saying, remember I did my first half marathon?

Yep. I saw a lady on Rocky Raccoon. I don't know if you saw her. She had a prosthetic leg. Yeah. And she was carrying an American flag. The whole time. Whole time.

For the finish. And I saw her at mile maybe 15. I said, ma'am, are you? You carrying that flag the whole way. She said, I wouldn't do anything else. But I said, I'd love to see it. Yeah. I saw her falling, tripping over the roots.

She was on the ground. But the flag never touched the ground. Yep. That's powerful. Yeah. And I love that about running. I've fallen in love with that. And I've seen that beauty of running.

And that's why you see these people with all different backgrounds and age at these ultras. or marathons or whatever it may be because it's it's a lifelong journey like uh there's always something new you can learn you can always grow you maybe you know at some point you peak and you don't get faster whatever that looks like but i love that about running compared to a lot of sports is it can be just this lifelong journey to you do essentially till the day you die like it's really cool i mean at ledville we were going up hopes pass one of the most intense climbs in the course if not the most intense and i mean there are guys like probably in their 70s and And then that moment I was like, this is like the beauty of running.

Like this is endurance sports in general. It's a lifelong like journey that just continues to be relative with where you're at. It love that. It's unique to the sport. It's hard to find that in a lot of other sports, I feel like. It is. And what's so interesting about running, you know, I've talked to a lot of fitness professionals recently. Sal DeStefano from Mind Pump was on the podcast a few weeks ago.

and if you look at running from a physical performance standpoint, there are a lot of cons. It's not the best for the body, especially as you increase volume. It is not very beneficial for your metabolism. You burn more calories during cardiovascular training than you do during strength training, but overall, your metabolism slows down.

Hormonally, it can have detrimental effects to your hormone system but the mental clarity the mental positivity 100x outweighs any negative effects it has on the body now I'm comparing ultra running to your average

two three mile run ultra running can just destroy the body but you know this morning was my first run back in a week after Rocky Raccoon and after that run as beat up as my body still is, my mind was the most clear it's been in a week. And I was the most focused. I was

the most ready for the day. If running, if a doctor told me, if you keep running, it's going to kill you, I would keep running because of what it does for me mentally. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, and I've found that mental, you know, therapy per se through running. And that's what I've fallen in love with too. And like you said, we're talking about ultras, but again, it's so relative because it may take a mile or two miles for some people to find that, to find that release and, you know, first thing in the morning. But then you have, you know, maybe these really elite athletes, like ultra runners, and it takes 20 miles. It takes, you know, however long for them to find that release or till their body begins to see detrimental effects. Like, that's also the cool part about

that run your own race, no comparison kind of mindset is, it's just relative for everyone. And that's why I love it because it's the barrier to entry is so low. Like, you can go have a conversation with most people and they can start running tomorrow. You know, I love that about it. And yeah, it's a special sport, man. That's cool. I'm really glad I found it. It's awesome.

Before we dive into, like, actual Rocky Raccoon, a lot of runners that I've met don't run to compete. Yeah. And when people ask me, like, who are you trying to beat? Are you trying to win this race? Like, I don't plan on ever winning a race. I'm a 200-pound runner. I'm not going to be winning a marathon.

But I never care about where I'm placing in that race. Like running for me endurance sports is, I mean, fitness in general. It's a way for me to personally improve mentally and physically. I'm running my own race. I'm running my own run. I'm not ever trying to beat anyone else. Even after I finish a race and you get a metal or a buckle, I don't know where any of my medals or buckles are.

They might be in the center console of my truck or they might be in the trash. I almost brought mine today, so I still, I'm proud of that thing. Hey, we're at loud and proud. You're kidding. But the thing is, like, I get so much more from the prep in the process than the race. And during the prep, during that process is where I personally win. That's where I feel like I get the pros of the whole. process. Yeah, I mean, kind of a side note. I have a perfect example of that in its rawest

form is last year I prepped for a marathon and it was supposed to be in February and as obviously a lot of Texans know and most people probably around the country, we got hit with a really bad ice storm. And a lot of races were already still not going on due to COVID, but the night storm, you know, took out that last few that were available. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to run it on my own. and then the next weekend had a death in the family and it was like okay not that not that weekend and then the next weekend something else happened um and i eventually it hit me that i was like sure i could go do this i still feel motivated but i didn't feel as fired up and passionate about it and it hit me that i what i've taken away from this prep is already done like everything that i set

out to gain from this prep from running i've already achieved like and And my wife would, she's really competitive, so she maybe didn't have the same mindset. But I was like, I don't even care to do this anymore. Like, the only reason I really want to do it is because I committed to doing it and I set out and I said I was going to do it. But other than that, I've like learned and grown and found out so much about myself during this prep that I'm content with not actually doing the marathon. So I'll wait until race is open back up. And that's what I did. And obviously now the ultra came first.

But that is that and it's rawest form is I took everything away. that I needed and moved on. And I kept running, but I was like, I don't need to actually do the event right now. I'll wait to race it open back up. So, yeah. Before we dive any deeper into that, I want to talk to you about why we started

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You don't run to race. You train to train. You don't train to compete. That's my mindset with everything. And there's these micro goals around the course. But it's not this big, big, big, big, big build. And then Radio Silent forever. Yeah, exactly.

Build, build, build. Radio Silent. It's just, it's this consistent part of my routine. that's part of my life and lifestyle that I need to feel better. I need to feel good. I need to operate at my full potential. Yep. So diving into training up for Rocky Raccoon, what did your train up look like? Obviously, this is probably the most mileage, the most volume you've ever trained at.

What did your training look like throughout this prep leading up to race day? Yeah, I would say overall, super well went great. especially like I said I prep for a marathon whether that was you know a proper well-informed prep I prepped quote unquote so I had a little bit of mileage on my legs but it didn't run much this summer so I'd say that kind of that use it or lose it happened and I definitely like declined a little bit so I started this prep it was I was running just a little bit maybe 15 10 15 miles a week kind of top you know top the strength training um And so I knew going in that I might not be able to handle the volume that a 100K actually calls for due to, like, injury prevention, trying to be smart, not tax my body in other ways like nervous system and, you know, hormones and things like that, just all the other problems you get with over training.

And so I found a good sweet spot around 40 miles a week. That's kind of like was my big weeks. And again, that's relative for me. I think most programs would call for more. than that. But that was, you know, it would be about a three-week build, hit that 40 miles a week-a-week-week-taper, and then I'd have like a week-taper, three weeks again, week-taper, three-week-taper, and we're great. I definitely had some injuries, but again, I knew I was in it for myself. I wasn't in it to compete. And so for me, it was I'd rather go in injury-free, healthy than I got one extra long run in. I got one extra, you know, mile or hour-in this week. So I just played it really smart. I played it cautious, but I still stuck to the plan as much as I could and committed to every detail that I could of it and just made those runs most valuable and put a lot of thought

into nutrition and things other than just getting a mileage. And what was your time for your 100K? It was 11 hours and 50 minutes, which that was shocking to me. Everyone was asking, you know, what's, what's your goal time? What are you shooting for? And to me, I was like, the worst thing I can do in my first ultra is try to set at time. Like, that just seems absurd. So I was like, I have no expectation. Just plan on being there with me all day. In my head, I was like maybe around 15 hours. I hadn't calculated out much what that pace was. Came in around 11 hours and 50 minutes. I'm not sure exactly what that pace calculates.

So I think like low 11s a minute per mile pace. But dude, so good. I was shocked. I was absolutely shocked. I was like, am I, like, taking the wrong turns? Like, am I actually at 62 miles? Like, it was weird. It was an interesting course, too. Yeah, yeah. It was crazy. Yeah, so I finished 100-mile or 19 hours, 13 minutes.

Quick, man. My prep, so this was probably the most mileage I've ever done for a prep. Comparing it to Leadville 100, Ledville 100, my mileage was lower than it probably should have been.

Reasoning was I found out I got selected for Leadville 100 during a six-month triathlon prep which was supposed to be an Iron Man and Iron Man Texas got canceled. We pivoted to challenge Cancun and I went right into Iron Man or into Rocky or sorry, Leadville 100

prep. They all blend it this point. They're all blending. It's been a crazy year. Went right into Leadville 100 prep after triathlon prep. Kept mileage a little lower. It was summer two. My body was just pretty taxed. and then they led Vold 100, we realized it needed more mileage.

So hired Zach Bitter as my coach. And we got mileage at its peak 75 to 85, maybe 90 miles tops a week. That's where I also started experimenting some overtraining wear and tear and micro injuries. I was doing a lot of long runs on the weekends. My long runs were 30 miles. I had to like 4.30 milers throughout the prep.

Definitely the best aerobic conditioning I've ever been, but I really started to miss speed training and tempo and threshold work during this ultra prep. But the one big difference I made in this Rocky Raccoon prep, as opposed to level 100, volume mileage was higher. And you can look at volume two different ways. You can look at it as time, one feet, or distance one feet. I personally have always just been a distance person. I like tracking distance over time

and then monitoring that through a prep. So that's kind of like where I got mileage to during this Rocky Raccoon prep. I will say one thing I've seen in the ultraspace and the endurance space in the community online is everyone thinks there's a certain amount of mileage you have to hit for an ultra. You'll hear it like, oh, if you're not doing 100 miles a week,

You're not doing 120 miles a week. If you're not doing 150 miles a week, you're messing up. You're missing out. That is very individually specific. Because you can't go from 60 miles a week to 120 miles a week. You cannot do that. That's too big of a jump. You have to know your body, understand your body.

That's why these cookie cutter programs out there do not work most of the time because it's not taking the individual, their training experience or level to consideration, and it's ultimately setting people up for failure or injuries. So I found that, you know, 75 and 90 miles a week tops was perfect for me. And actually going into marathon prep now, we're going to keep mileage around 75 to 80 miles a week. But it's not going to be these big 30 mile runs. It's going to be the daily runs, just increase a little bit over the program. So that was my prep in a nutshell.

You know, like you said, an ultra is all about body durability. If you can only get to 20 miles and your body can't hold up for the next 40, 60, 80 miles, you're not going to finish the race. You've got to go into it strong, focus on nutrition, knowing your body can handle certain types of volume, and then build into that program based off your personal experience and your personal training level. And that ultimately sets you up for success. but I think there's this issue in endurance programming where it assumes that every runner

is the same with the same experience and just like you like keeping mileage lower you felt better, you went into Rocky Raccoon, you crushed. That's like a testament to it. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think self-awareness, whether you have a coach or not, just self-awareness and being your own feedback mechanism is like one of the most powerful tools.

And again, like not comparing your plan to someone else's or you know you get on Strava and see this guy's trained for 100k or 100 miler and it's doing that many miles like again it goes back to like that's what makes running so awesome is because well my journey is I'm doing this many miles and we're probably still going to both have a successful race it's so specific to each person so the quicker you can get that ego out of the way and just say this is this is my plan this is how I'm going to approach it this is the feedback I'm getting from my body these are the tweaks I need to make and I feel like that's so much more powerful than just, again,

sticking to a cookie cutter plan and saying, well, because it's on paper that I'm supposed to run this far, that's what I'm going to do today. Like, from the beginning, I was like, I can't do that. It's just not going to work. When you implement ego into endurance training, it is the fastest way to injury. Yep.

I was there. I experienced early on, and I got that reality check very quick. Yeah, it's ego is, that's where you get injured. that's where you start to see the detrimental effects. And sometimes it's hard to see that it was ego too. Sometimes you need people in your life or, again, to be self-aware to know that it's ego.

Yeah. Yeah, because you start looking at everything else. What am I doing wrong? Where am I not, you know, where the dots are connecting? And a lot of times it's just, man, you're just not running your own race. You're not staying in your own lane for this experience for you. So what do your taper look like going into Rocky? Yeah.

for me the last two weeks were pretty, pretty slow and low miles. I had my last big weekend, I guess it would have been two weekends out. So I had a 20 mile run and the next day, I think I did like a 10 mile run. And for me, that was a big weekend. Again, kind of going on what you said, like, those long runs take a lot out of you. But they're also a great indicator of like where you're at. Like if I can't do a 20 mile run and if I can do a 20 mile run and not be on the couch the rest of the day, and my nervous system just shot and, you know, just be, yeah, just down and out the rest of the day,

like, maybe I'm not ready or maybe it's just like maybe this can be really, really hard. And it was cool because of the beginning of prep, not to go too far off, like on a tangent, but at the beginning of prep, there's 20 mile runs. And I know we've talked about this. Dude, I'll be on the couch the rest of the day just like brain fog, can't work on anything. I feel like I can't hold a conversation, just eat, drink water, foam roll, watch TV, I'm out for the rest of the day. I'm doing nothing this Saturday. And then towards the end, those 20-mile runs are like, you felt them.

You were hungry after, a little tired. But, you know, hour or two later, I was like, all right, like, I feel normal again. You know, a little bit of brain fog, but, yeah, that was really cool. So had that one last big weekend, 20-mile run, next day, 10-mile run. for me that was that was awesome um and then i spent the next two weeks low slow miles foam rolling making sure hitting calories every day water intake just recovering essentially um and it's funny because that taper it mess with your head man like i was like am i losing fitness like and it was funny because sometimes i almost felt more sore or more just like legs were heavy and just

kind of sluggish on that low easy miles and I did like peak prep like to a certain point but I was like am I losing mileage am I like is everything just hurting and injured like what's going on and the race day the body that's when you see it you're like oh wow this is why I had to be patient the last two weeks and it's and just embrace that like easiness so yeah nothing nothing crazy I think I was dealing with a couple little injuries so I think I ran like yeah 10 to 20 miles those last two weeks. Very easy, maybe even lower than I probably should have been, but again, being

self-wear, I knew it had some injuries, and I decided or ain't going into that taper, I'm going to go in injury-free, healthy, rather than try to hit this taper exactly just perfect for what the program says. Did any of your injuries flare up during the race? No, which was crazy. All prep I dealt with IT band tightness,

which then led to some pain, like on the outside of your knee. A lot of runners deal with it. dealt with that very early on in the prep kind of went away hip flexors were still tight no actually it was like injuries that I had never experienced that flared up during the race but

overall the race was super healthy I think really just like my feet hurt the worst and all prep like my feet never hurt and then again about a week out they started to like flare up and then during the race it was my feet that that really hurt but other than that felt great it was really weird actually

I find that with every race have done is it's like the week or two before the taper starts, all of these injuries pop up. I think it's more mental than physical. To be honest, I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. Like before Leadville, I had quad strains. And I couldn't even run five miles on my quads. I had to take some time off before, you know, Leadville. And then before Rocky, two weeks, it was like a week before the taper started, my metatarsals,

which I've never had issue with my life. which were the bottom of my feet were so swollen. And I was trying everything and anything to get rid of this metatarsal pain. So at this point, though, I know this just is going to happen to me. Like at the peak of training before taper, these injuries are going to show up during a taper, decreased volume a lot, going to the race, injury disappears. I'm like, I know it's like this pattern. Injury shows up.

I get nervous that it's going to affect the race. Come race day, it's gone. It doesn't exist anymore. And then obviously during the race, like you said, new things show up. But that's expected, especially on uneven terrain, ultra miles. If you finish an ultramarathon, you feel 100% healthy, you don't have any micro injuries. I mean, that's a golden ticket. Yeah.

That's actually a really good point. the terrain diversity because I didn't run a ton of trails leading into this and man I felt like my legs

felt better on these trails than I did leading up running all like road miles again I went in with tight hip flexors IT band stuff

no metatarsal or you know foot injury and it sounds like we kind of flipped where now you're kind of deal a little bit of hip tightness

your feet are good and I'm dealing with my hips are great my feet my feet suck right now but terrain, like that diversity of terrain actually is really interesting because I've been trying to put the pieces together of why didn't my hip flexors like get really tight and feel like my legs wouldn't

lift. I couldn't pick my knees up, which happens like all the time when I run normal on the road. So that'll be interesting to see moving forward when I get back into running in the next week what that looks like. Yeah, I mean, trail running and road running completely different things. Yeah. I'm personally, I found I'm a bigger fan of road running than trail running. Just personal preference. But, you know, diving in now to, let's go over course profile of Rocky before we go into the actual race day. Rocky Raccoon, Huntsville, Texas, three hours south of where we're at outside of Austin, Texas here. It was a 20-mile loop.

You did three times. I did five times. technical terrain trails however more like rudy more roots than actual like big technical pieces which you know I spray my ankle on some of those roots I stub my toes

I was getting caught up on these these roots but um the one thing about like trail running is it forces you to slow down which is I'm assuming is why you didn't have as much hip flexor pain because you're you're forced to really focus on where you're moving your feet too. Like,

it's really hard to focus on anything else but your feet and where you're stepping, especially when it gets more technical. There was some changes in elevation. I was looking at my watch this morning, and it said I gained over the course of the 100 miles, like 7,000 feet, like 7,000 feet ascend, 7,000 feet descend. Compared to that to, like, Leadville 100, I mean, Leadville 100, I was climbing the Rocky Mountains.

So Rocky just felt like it was completely flat the whole time. But there was definitely some changes to elevation. We were going up and down a little bit. And I would say like the last five miles of that 20 mile loop, for me were the most unenjoyable because there was like no straightaways. It was more technical. It was like a lot of zigzags. And the first like 15, there were definitely some spots where you get some straightaways

and get some speed cooking up a little bit. But overall, that was the course profile. There were a lot of aid stations, which was nice. There's a lot of checkpoints with water and nutrition. They had bananas out there. I was grabbing a lot of bananas, oranges, PBNJs. They had bacon. I grabbed a cassidia at one checkpoint.

Overall, the course was run very well. Like the race was well coordinated and directed and organized. So I will say like hats off to, I think Hoka Oneoneone was the primary sponsor of Rocky Raccoon. Yeah, they absolutely crushed from just like a racer experience. Like it was great. It was, I mean, you know, ultras are fairly simple. Show off, get your bib, race, you know, race time. But on course, like, man, yeah, aid stations were packed.

They were great. Course markings were great, pretty easy because it's a loop, but it really like comes back and forth, like so much. way more than I thought. When we first signed up, I was like, it's just a big circle. But it, and, you know, in essence it is, but it goes back and forth a lot. So you really do have to pay attention to this course markings, but they absolutely crushed it. But yeah, to your point, man, that last five miles of the 20-mile loop were the worst. Pissed me off. Yeah, but it was funny. I actually ran with a woman that had ran it before. She was fast, too. I think she got like seventh place. Shout out to Sheila.

Crushed it. And I was running with her at the first 15 miles, essentially. And she was telling me, like, yeah, this is where you need to pick up speed. Like, this is where you make up your time. I was like, awesome. Like, I don't even want to think about that. Towards then I was. It came to light.

But she's like, you know, these are the easy ones. Make sure you pick up your speed time. You know, and so we were holding like a nine minute pace, like running on that first 10 to 15 miles. Man, in that back five, I don't know what about it. And it's just these really long rolling hills, just constantly up and down. For me, the first lap I ran it, the second lap was when I decided to walk the up hills and kind of run the downhills and flats. And yeah, it just felt like it took forever. Man, the first 10 to 15 miles of the loop would just be like that quick, easy. And then that last five we're just like, what is going on? Like, does this ever end? Did they mark this like, you know,

appropriately, like, is it actually five miles? It was, it was weird. It was a weird, like, just isolated, less people. Yeah, that was when you really start to get in your head on that last five. She wasn't kidding when she said that the last five's tough. Yeah, I mean, when you heard it was a loop, I was the same way where I expected like this nice, very easy, just circle. Yep.

But there were points where, like, you run out to one spot and then you run back. And when I looked at my map afterwards on Strava, I mean, you could see it was in and out, in and out, in and out everywhere. Very confusing loop. Yep. If you would have told me it was a loop, if you wouldn't have told me it was a loop before, I wanted to have known it was a loop going to do it. Yeah, when you're in it, it doesn't feel like it.

Not at all. I actually heard of people's like garments, like their mileage and time just being so off because of how many turns you make and loopbacks, the garment like wouldn't pick it up. So it just looked like a straight line instead of like up and down. It would just kind of cut across. It makes sense. And I don't really know if mine did that or not,

but I thought that was interesting. It just proves how it's not a perfect loop like you think. So yeah, someone just set me out there in the middle of the woods and said this is a loop, I would have never felt like it for sure. Did your Garman die? Yeah. Yeah, mine died.

I switched out, I think like halfway or something like that. Yeah. What do you have now? Well, it switched or I switched out just bar, borrowed a friends, but it took like, it's a Garmin 735, so it's a little older. The battery is just a trash on it at this point. So it says it lasts 12 hours and it used to, but it lasted like five. And so I don't know if that might have been from just like trying to figure out what was going on if it just zapped the battery and the cold. But yeah, it died really quick,

quicker than I thought it would. It's kind of disappointing, but I need a new watch, so nothing on Garmin. Dude, Garmin Phoenix 6 Pro. Yeah, how did you do? I mean, I had it running the whole 19 hours. Oh, my God. And then stop, save the workout, went back home the next day, plugged it in to charge it. It still had 53% battery left.

See, no one take what I just said towards Garmin. That's totally my watch because, yeah. The Phoenix series, that's why I got the Phoenix series, because during Leadville, I didn't have, or I had the Phoenix 5, I think. Yeah. And that one died. Yep.

and they just launched the Phoenix seven now. Dang. But I was impressed. 53% battery left. Dang. That's amazing. Like that's really impressive. I wonder like 10, 20 years ago what watches were like, like trying to do an ultra

and you're just buying like four watches and just supple them out every loop. Oh my gosh. I just remember in the army, I was just wearing G-shocks. Yeah. All it did is telling me time. But the best part about the G-shock then, I mean, this was 2014. for me was I could press this button and it would light up. Just like any watch does now.

But when we'd be walking in Ranger School at 2, 3, 4 a.m., I could see what time it was, so I'd turn the light on. And midway through the mountain phase of Ranger School, my light died. So in the night, I could never tell what time it was. But then it was just like the G-shock for me was the watch used, but all it would do was tell me time. Nothing else. Shout out G-shock.

That was like a fashion piece, man. I had one in high school. And to your light point, I would just be in class and touch the light. Just to look at the time when it's perfectly light out. But I don't know why I just had a habit. It was like a tick of like I'd touch the light every time. That's probably why it didn't last very long. Yeah.

Absolutely did not need to use the light ever in my life. I was not in the military using it. It was just like, yeah. I can't even remember where like the light button was. My thumb would touch it. It was like in the middle and the bottom. So going back to the race, what I thought was interesting was, You know, the day of the race, first established this, and I want to talk about nutrition for that day, but it was a rolling start.

It wasn't a shotgun start. Most races you go to, everyone lines up in the line, something initiates a starting point, whether it's like a gun or a buzzer or something. And then once you cross the starting line, your chip activates. And it's a chip time. for Rocky Raccoon, it was a rolling start. So, like, when I signed up, my time to run was between 7 and 7.30 a.m. Yours was, I think, 8 and 8.30 a.m. Some people had, like, 6 to 6.30, 630 to 7, 7 to 7.30 to 8.

And I'd never seen that before. Yeah. So that was very interesting. And it was kind of like anti-climactic. Yeah, I was going to ask, how did you feel about it? I honestly, I like the shotguns start better. The race day energy, man. Yeah, because this one, I almost felt like I was doing something wrong because no one was lined up.

My watch hit seven. I was like, all right, I guess I'm going to start, see you guys, and I just started running through the tunnel. But it wasn't that like race day jitters. I mean, the Leadville starting line was epic. Yeah, yeah. And then all the headlights and everyone running down the street together. I don't know. I guess I can see both points of view because, I mean, whether they wanted to do it or not,

the Rocky Raccoon, I can see where it kind of strips it back to, like, Ultra in its rawest form, which is like, all right, you're on your own. Like, this is on you. It's not high energy. You're going to be out there for a while. Just go ahead and take off. But I was like, man, I kind of wanted that, like, pump up right from the gate. And, yeah, it was weird.

I think every sporting event kind of has that, like, start with all the competitors together, for the most part. not every, but yeah, I was like, man, this is kind of anticlimatic. I was like, all right, guys, see in a little bit. And it just felt like I was going on like a training run. It didn't feel like a race day. Like I pictured all prep. I think it's the best way to put it is it is very similar in parallel with the concept of ultra running because, you know, for a 5K, half marathon, full marathon, you're getting psyched

up. You're in the zone, you're dialed in. You know for that specific period of time, you are trying to race against the clock essentially. With an ultra, you can't really get hyped up for an ultra because I was like, I know I'm going to be running for about anywhere from 18 to 20 hours. It's like that hype up might last for 30 minutes to an hour.

Yep. And then you're just sitting in and along for the ride. Yeah, that was so different for me. Just growing up playing your typical sports, basketball, soccer. You know, it's like start time. and then this is how long you play for. You kind of know what to expect. You can get pumped up, go out there, go hard,

and everyone kept asking, how do you feel? On race morning and the day before, and I was like, I don't know. Like, I've never done something like this where it almost is more detrimental to get, like, pumped up and, like, too, you know, fired up about it and your emotions get too high. So I was like, I don't want to get too excited,

but I am excited, but I also don't want to, like, you know, it to just feel like an everyday, run, but essentially that's what it is. It's like, all right, you did the prep, but there is no, like, huge climax. It's just like, now just keep doing what you've done all prep and go run and finish the job. Yeah, that was really weird for me because I was like, I don't know how to feel right now. It was weird. So what was your nutrition plan for that morning before the race started?

Yeah, so that morning woke up, coffee, bathroom, and then ate. I think I had electrolytes, G1M, and then I had a bagel peanut butter and honey. I wanted to keep it light. I knew it was going to be a long day, but also don't want to go and obviously hungry. So I kind of just did what I did all prep, just normal, eight to where I was satisfied and whatever that looked like that morning. And then from there, I just knew like it's an ultra. It's way different than anything I've done.

I'll have time stop and eat. But also, I think more than anything, it was like the day before. I just made sure I was super high, like on calories. Water intake was sufficient, if not more. And then electrolytes like we were talking the night before. But that morning, it's pretty much stuck to what I've done for all my long runs, the whole prep. And it worked great. So nothing crazy.

Yeah, my strategy is kind of always the same. It's about three hours before the race starts. I do, well, first I drink coffee. Yep. Before, almost before every big race, I never have any issue with this other than race days. I can't poop. Yep. So I drank like two cups of coffee.

I couldn't go. It was probably just like nerves and jitters. I was the opposite. My nerves and jitters was like, go to the bathroom again. Go again and come out and Nick just, you still looked angry that you couldn't go. Dude, I knew it was like,

it's part of me noticed going into it. I'm not going to be able to go until mile like 12. Yep. Couldn't go to the bathroom. So I had three hours before the race started, bagel, banana, peanut butter. honey, eat that, and then I sipped on two scoops, G1M sport leading into the race starting point, topped off on carbohydrates, electrolytes, sipping on water.

And that's like my routine that I know works, and I feel good. Like you said, the days leading into an ultra matter the most, topping off on carbohydrates to top off on muscle and liver glycogen. Water, obviously staying hydrated, but not water in the absence of electrolytes. I've made that mistake before where I've chugged water with no electrolytes. I flushed my electrolytes stores

and I ended up cramping up a lot. So it's like topping off sodium, carbohydrates, being rested, being hydrated, going in, injury-free, if possible. Because you know your body is about to endure some discomfort but also pain, injury, stuff like that. So, you know, that was my nutrition strategy. And you find out what works for you.

Some people are different. But you just find out over time your best strategy. Now going into the actual race, what was your nutrition strategy on course? Yeah. And just to kind of preface, like I knew you have to know going in like it's going to change. like we had talked about this a lot. You can have a plan with Ultras, but five hours in,

your body's going to start to say, nope, we want this, we want this. And you kind of got to put those puzzle pieces together of what is my body rejecting, was it want? Because it's funny too,

because you may crave something, but then you eat it, and it's like your stomach says, no, I don't want that. But like, you're, you know,

you're craving it because it's salty or sweet. But going in, I did have a plan. You know, ours probably looked very similar because I'd talk to you a lot like, hey, what are you doing? What did you do with Leadville? I was trying to remember.

So I had a vest on, Solomon vest, had a bottle in each pocket, and then I always had, you know, stuff in pockets and stuff. And so mine looked like I did a scoop of G1M in each bottle and a scoop of electrolytes starting out. So that's 25 grams of carbs. The electrolytes have 500 milligrams of sodium. And then G1M is 350? 315 milligrams of so of sodium of sodium so i mean i was looking at 850 milligrams of sodium

25 grams of carbs right there and then i had uh spring energy um goos they're not really gus because they're real food but they look like a goo um and so essentially i would do um one of the bottles and then a goo every hour so and i say every hour but i would start to sip on that and then eat the goo around like 45 minutes. So I would, instead of trying to jam it in right on the, on the hour, every hour, which I used to do on my long run, just, you know, scarf it down, eat the goo on the hour. I realize, like, give myself 10 to 15 minutes to kind of drink that bottle, eat the goo. The goo, you know, you pound pretty quick because you don't want to run and run with it. And that's what it looked like. And man, my stomach held up great, which is shocking because

I thought I was really going to struggle with it. And I've used G1M sport all through prep. I used our electrolytes all through prep. So it was nothing new. I knew my stomach would handle it. I was just scared for how long. And that's when it was going to get complex for me because I've never been in that position before.

I've never had to say my stomach is dejecting this or rejecting this. I have used G1M all prep. I don't know what else I want. Like I guess peanut butter jelly or, you know, whatever. And so, yeah, did a scoop of that or a bottle of that, goo every hour. And then on the course, you had eight stations every five miles, I believe. So it was looking at like about an hour for me. So I had our, my crew, our team meet me at the 10 mile mark and the 20 mile mark, so twice. And at the 10 and 20, which was a couple hours in, I would do like more, I would do like a solid food. I would try to get like

a Lara bar in or a peanut butter and jelly. And to, be honest, I didn't eat a ton of whole food. I think I only had like two peanut butter and jellies the whole time. And I had like a couple lara bars. But man, yeah. So I stayed really dialed into that scoop of G1M sport, scoop of electrolytes and a goo every hour. And I did that for 11 hours. And on the last hour, that last five miles, this is when I never knew how real that would feel when your body says, I don't want that. And I went to take a drink. I would like reach down to take a drink out of that bottle. And my body was like, absolutely not. You're done. And so I was like for the last like hour or 50 minutes, I didn't have anything because I was like, I'm not, I can't at this point. I'm not going to like take the chance of trying to eat something just to get calories in when I have an hour left.

Like I can push through this. So dude, one testament to that product like to take on, what is that 10, 11 scoops of that and, you know, 11 hours. like that was amazing my stomach held up great so i wish i had a more complex answer but i'm also really happy i don't because my stomach just held up awesome and stuck to that two scoops and ague every hour on the hour and then got some solid food in at the the big eight stations 10 and 20 miles so and it went great super happy with it i think it's one of the biggest mistakes people can make is they don't train with a fuel source they're going to be using on race day yep So, you know, obviously we both use G&M sport, our electrolytes, field bars during training, use that race day as well. So that's like the first time I want to put out there is you have to train on the nutrition source you're going to use for race day.

And actually, to piggyback off that real quick, my crew actually missed me in one of the big aid stations. I came through a little quicker and we kind of miscalculated. They were in the parking lot, but they didn't see me. And I had the option to, they had a different brand, a different type of liquid carbs. And a, you know, huge, you know, big pitcher. And I was like, I know I need it. But I made a decision. I was like, I can't do that.

Like, I haven't trained with it. At this point, to me, it'll be more detrimental if I drink this and it hurts my stomach than to get a little extra energy. So I think I ate like pretzels and just filled up waters instead of doing like their carb source. And it may have been a great carbs source. Awesome. But I never trained with it.

And I remember that like you, we've talked about that a lot. You've instilled that a lot. And me is like you need to use what you train with. So I was like, I can't risk this right now. My stomach's going really well. So I just moved on with just water. So just kind of a real life example that sometimes things don't go as planned in the ultra and you have to. Then it gets real of do I use something I've never used before?

And I took that back very seriously. Nope. Moved on. Got water and that was it. Yeah. With an ultra, you have to be prepared to have a plan. Yep. But also be prepared to pivot from that plan when you have to.

Yeah. And every race is different. Right. Like so my nutrition strategy on Ironman as opposed to Leadville, as opposed to Rocky, completely different because you don't know where your stomach is going to go. And for me, I started with two scoops of G1M sport and a scoop of electrolytes in each bottle on my Solomon vest. And then I had spring energy gels and field bars in my vest as well. And my plan was to use that for, you know, the first 60 miles.

or so and just, you know, kind of adjust based off that. At mile 20, when I saw the crew, I had a peanut butter and banana sandwich. Nice. That was delicious. I was the banana instead of jelly. Ooh, it was good. Respect. And then on the course, I would occasionally grab some more bananas and orange slices.

Okay. I was just craving, like, fruit. I've been in a huge fruit kick lately, and I was craving some fruit. And then at mile 40, when I came back and saw the crew, they were eating Chick-fil-A. and my mind was just like, I'm craving a chick-fay sandwich right now. So I ate a chick-fil-a-s sandwich. That felt really good.

You know, the battle with an ultra is you're trying to consume enough calories to fuel you so you don't balk during that race. Yeah. But not over-consume so you get sick. So it's this game, it's this puzzle you're playing. Came in at mile 60 then. And mile 60 for some reason, I just wasn't feeling the hottest.

And I think part of it was, like mentally because that 20 mile loop kind of just messed me up. Like going 50 miles down, 50 back, I actually preferred. But when I got to mile 16, I was like, man, I got two more, had two more loops. I thought about you during that because I, that third loop, I was like, I could imagine doing two more. At this point, it's, I don't know if monotonous is like the right word,

but it was just like, I just don't want to do the same route. I couldn't imagine doing the same route two more times. And I was like, I wonder how Nick's feeling because three was my limit. knowing if I'd had to do a hundred mile I'd push through but I was like I'm really glad I only have to do three of this I mean I'm not gonna lie like during these ultras I've done

you get to a point where like fuck this yeah fuck this you're like I'm over this loop dude so at the mile 60 and at that point I don't know why I just wasn't feeling like too hot I was still moving really good

my ankle is hurting because I sprained my ankle you know at mile 15 pretty bad and I met up with clink and the crew and they they essentially put me in a tape boot yep it put like a quarter inch of tape around my foot to hold it up and uh at mile 60 I consumed I think two more uh peanut butter banana sandwiches and I had another field bar and uh they had some fruit there from chick flay as well so I consumed some of that again out in the course um I was still eating like peanut butter sandwiches they had out there, the bananas.

I was just trying to, I knew I had to stay on top of nutrition. I started adding in some salt tabs as well. Oh yeah, I did have some salt tabs along the way too, like urgency. The only thing about the salt tabs is by salt stick, they go to your gut real quick, and you can feel it in there. And that's when I started having some digestive issues. It was probably like mile 70. And I could feel it when I was running.

So I pulled back on G1. I'm a little bit. I pulled back on electrolytes, which is tough because you know you need the electrolytes, but the sodium is starting to stir your stomach up a little bit. So at that point, I made the decision, okay, I need to switch to more solids. So I was trying to get more solid foods in, more bars, more fruit, more things on course. And mile 70 had a B-line to the port-potty. And I started getting diarrhea.

and I had I kind of had like diarrhea off and won the rest of the race came back in at mile 80 to see the crew and they had Papa John's pizza and I was like oh hell yeah had three slices of Papa John's I knew at that point I just needed solids in my stomach you keep consuming gels and liquid carbs

and bars over this much time it's gonna tear your stomach up right so I knew I had to switch to solid foods. Pizza, again, out in the course, more fruit, more sandwiches. At one point, some guy handed me a cassidia. I ate the cassidia out there.

That was delicious. And then, you know, finishing up the race, I felt solid. I think the biggest thing that I took away from Rocky Raccoon is Leadville, for me, was so much climbing and hiking that I almost wanted redemption after Ledville. I was like, I actually want to see how far I can move my body running.

And for Leadville 100, I probably ran 50, 55% of the time, hike for the rest. Rocky Raccoon, I ran 90 to 95% of time. And if there was ever a straightaway or a downhill, I was running, any uphill, I was climbing or striding it out. But that last 40 miles, that's where I got. a lot of the mental gain because it was as much as your body wants to walk and it's telling you it's okay to walk a little bit just slow down just slow down everyone else around he's walking it's flipping that switch in your mind saying now I'm running and forcing your body to run and keep

running and hold that run or that little trot as long as possible in the ultra space I think that's where you really get the mental win man that's so good because I remember being on the trail and you know we would hit a certain point and maybe the person down next to me would like start walking or the person in front of me and for some reason your first reaction is walk and it took me probably after the first lap first loop I pretty much ran the whole thing the second loop started to be more intentional just obviously again for me and um and when I say walk I was really trying to like speedwalk and stride out these like up hills like big steps just speedwalking um but man like seeing people just kind of falling off left and right and I'm passing them

it kind of gets in your head because for me i was like am i doing something wrong because i'm my first ultra very like you know naive i'm like am i doing something wrong am i pushing too hard these people are going to pass me you know not that i'm competing it's in but they're going to see me you know a mile 50 and i'm just going to be balked in there but yeah that's why i was you know walking slow and um and luckily that didn't happen but man it's crazy and i think it's a deeper you know uh i don't know if it's a problem but just a deeper thought than even during an ultra is that when you see people around you just kind of giving in walking, you just automatically do it.

And not that them walking is bad. That's part of their plan. That's part of their strategy. But I caught myself doing that a lot. I would just be kind of striding, feeling good. And then hit a little uphill or whatever, a little stretch. And this person just start walking. I'm like, oh, me too.

And I was like, wait. So the second, third loop, I was like, no, like run my own race. And it almost became a challenge that when I would see someone kind of stop and walk. And I would see them not accept defeat, but just kind of like, I can't. I got to stop for a minute. I would then, like you said, make that conscious decision. I'm like, no, I'm going to run just because I'm not going to just kind of fall into the same,

just making the same decisions everyone around me. Like, I'm running my own race. And so that's an interesting point. Like you kind of dealt with the same thing because it's a very like, you know, intimate experience with all these people. It's just you and one other person and then another person. And it's very easy to take on their energy and like take on. the decisions or how they look, if they look defeated, if they look tired, it's easy for,

I take a lot of people's energy like that and it's easy for me to kind of look at them, like, I'm tired too. I'm going to walk. And so I had that second and third loop say, like, start to, no, like, I'm not tired. I'm good. I'm going to keep pushing. Like, then just kind of like fire myself up and just keep moving and not kind of just fall prey to what everyone else is doing. So that's interesting that you saw that and you deal with that as well, but I'm glad I did pick it up. Yeah. Well, I experienced that at my first Iron Man.

I remember this. I'll never forget this moment. I remember where I was in the course. It was probably mild 17 of the run. So the day was almost over. And I was running in. There were these two gentlemen that were, I was about the pass.

And the one guy, they didn't know each other, looked over and said, hey man, you're tired? He's like, yeah. He said, you want to walk? Yeah, let's walk. So they started walking. And because they had that, almost that empathy for each other, it gave them a justification to, almost like, give up,

but let off the brakes or let off the gas. To make that decision in that moment. Yeah. I remember that too. I remember you talking about that right after the race. So that's very true. I remember that clear as a day because that was the first thing like we filmed together. And I remember you saying like, dude, these two guys were just talking.

And it was just like shocking to you. So you see it in all these races. You really see in ultras. and for Rocky, my goal was just keep moving, just keep moving, just keep moving. And that's where, like, I find the win is because you are now, your body won't take you so far. Even an alter, it doesn't matter how well you're trained. At some point, your body's done. And mentally, you have to drive through the rest of the race.

It is so easy to stop and walk based off the people around you. and that's actually why I like when it gets dark. Like for a race, when it's dark, that is my favorite time. Because for me, all the distractions disappear. I don't care about the trees. I don't care about the train. I don't care about the course. I'm at this race for me and myself to see how far I can push my limits.

Internally. It's like this internal intervention. That's the way I described it during. during Rocky Raccoon. So for you, what was it like when the sun came down, the headlamp switched on, and it was dark,

and you were running based off of your light source? The greatest thing ever. Epic. It's undescribable, man. That was what I wanted when I set out to do this race. I wanted to get to this low point where everything hurts,

and I just want to give up, and it's painful, and it just sucks. And I want to prove to myself that I'm stronger than I ever thought possible. And that, I'm not only going to get through this, but I'm not going to walk. I'm not going to, you know, give in in these moments when my body's like, I'll just walk this part. You can walk the rest of the race if you want.

I think that's even another great point is. And again, it's all relative. But I got to the point where it was, I was very low in that low moment. I was like, I know I'm going to finish this. now it's a matter of how fast and how well do I want to do it. And so I made the decision like, I'm not just going to walk it. I'm not just going to take it easy and just say, hey, finish my first 100K. Like I'm going to demolish this thing.

Like at this point I want to like crush this thing. And so it was just those micro moments of every step. Knee hurts. This hurts. Um, foot hurts. Um, this is painful. I'm hungry. I'm tired.

Who cares? Like, just get it done and get it done well. and freaking crush it, man. Like, that was my favorite part of the race. That's what I set out for. That's what my intention was when I signed up for this thing, was to get to this point where it was just overwhelming and scary. And to prove myself, like, I have everything I need to get through this and demolish it,

not just get through it. Yeah, I mean, that's my favorite part of any race is when it's dark, you don't see anything, but your feet in front of you based off your headlamp. and it's like it's one of those things where who are you when no one else can see you or no one else is watching? What do you do? How does your character hold up?

How does your mind hold up? Yep. And that's where you learn a lot about yourself is no one else sees you. No one else cares what you're wearing or can tell what you're wearing or what you look like when you're running or if you're crying or if you're smiling.

It is your time to work on yourself. Yep. and find out what you're capable of. That for me is the most powerful. You know, I was on the course, and there was this girl out there on the course. I don't know if she was doing the 100K or the 100-mileer, but I could just tell she,

it was probably one of her first races, and she wasn't a runner, didn't look like, but who might have judged. But she had a pacer, and her pacer was her dad. And I could tell it was her dad's first time, like out on an all-fired. course too.

And it was getting dark and they had their head lamps on and they were just driving through. And I was like, this is, this is awesome. That's a relationship I want to have with my daughter where I don't care if she runs ultras or what she does, but they were doing this together and they were going to finish it together. And they were at a different point in their fitness timeline and career and evolution than anyone else but doesn't matter because they're going to get so much of a win out of that ultra out of that experience and it's all relative.

Dude, it brings it back. I love that because then there was someone three hours, four or five hours ahead of them that was, you know, crushing the trails. But they're going to go through that little moment. They're going to go through that pain just like that, you know, that girl and her dad are and they're, you know, just running through the dark all alone on the same trail as them. And even though they might finish, they might win the race. they overcame the same thing that day.

They went through that deep. They went through that pain. They went through that suck. And it's special that you get to share that with people at every level while you're out there. Like I kept thinking about that. Like, man, there's someone, you know, however many people behind me, dealing with the same thing. And for them, it's a slow walk and they're going to walk the rest of this thing.

And that's freaking awesome, like that they're just going to finish. And then I'm thinking, Nick, you know, he's going for this time. And so he's going to go through this pain. He's going to go through this low moment. it, but for him, it's not just about finishing. It's about crushing this time. And so I kind of had to go in and, all right, what does that look like for me? But, dude, again, I love that about running.

And you saw it at Leadville going up Hope Pass. Like, I said these old men just taking their time, go 10 steps, take a seat. Ten steps, take a seat. But they were still doing it. And they were going through the same thing that the leader was probably going through, even though he was crushing the trail and flying. He's still battling those. He's still overcoming stuff in his head.

And that's cool to share that because I feel like, It's really hard to find in other areas of life to, like, share that with people. And at the end of the day, I love it because it's, we chose to be out there. That kept going through my head more than anything was the fact that I have the choice, the fact that I chose to be out here, I have no place to play victim. Like, this is my choice. I brought this pain on myself, and now I'm going to demolish it. I'm going to prove to myself that I'm stronger than I ever thought.

And that was like probably what had a lot of ways. wise going into this. A lot of things that I, the reasons I wanted to do it and why I wanted to complete it. And that was probably the biggest thing was, dude, you chose me out here. This is your choice to bring on this pain to be in this low moment. Now go prove to yourself what you're capable of. And I love that. That was great. I mean, that is one of the best parts. You get, you get to choose growth. Grateful, man. Growth is, is a choice at the end of the day. So let's talk about post-race recovery. I know you came in finishing with at a, extreme high and then shortly after you felt the effects of what the altar does to the body.

Talk about those hours and days after. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, kind of coming up to the finish line, this was feeling it for sure. Energy was great because I knew like what was about to come. I knew all of our team and friends, you know, closest friends would be waiting there and hear the music from the finish line. And so that was enough to carry you through, you know, legs are hurting.

But I was like sprinting towards the end. I think there's a cliff of me, you know, yelling. And I was like, I'm soaking this in. You know, and so with that, adrenaline was pumping. You know, it was like a hundred yard walk back to our picnic table. And I was feeling good. And then started eating some M&Ms and started to get really cold. And then immediately jumped in the truck.

Got some Papa John's pizza like you because I didn't eat any during the race. I guess that's one thing we haven't really talked about yet is. Yeah. It was cold. Yeah. It was around. Like 26, 25 degrees when we started. And then when we finished.

colder maybe? Yeah, I think it was sub 30 degrees when we started it got to the 50s during the day beautiful and then in the evening

because I finished I think like 2 2 am it was like sub 30s again that's actually one of my biggest motivations towards on the last lap

to push was I don't want to be out here at 10, 11 o'clock and so I'm like I'm going to try to get this done around 8 p.m. and get out of here and then once I got home I was like man

Nick has like no choice but like it's going to be late regardless how quick he finishes. So that was actually one of my motivations like to push. But yeah, it was cold. Well, I kept, uh, I kept wearing a tank, uh, cut off as long as possible because I knew that if I was cold, I had to keep moving my body. Yeah. So it wouldn't let me slow down. Yeah. So while everyone else was like putting these puffer jackets on, I was the only one in a cut off shirt. And now at least I know your strategy behind it because before I was like, why is he not got a long sleeve on? Yeah, it's the only reason. It is like, too, I had a long,

I had a long sleep on the whole time, and I didn't really realize how much sweat was building up, like under my Solomon vest. And then the crew made me change, like, right before the last level, like, no, I'm fine. And when I took all my clothes off, it was just like, I was drenched and sweat.

And I was like, oh, when it gets cold, that's all going to start to dry. And, you know, because I'm not moving fast enough really to keep pouring sweat. And that can,

then that gets scary. So that's also why I don't wear. Yeah, you have some tactic there because it was, it's a constant battle of like trying not to be too cold, but also you don't want to get too warm. Yeah, and I think if anything, I got too warm probably at some point. Yeah, I had a long sleeve on for parts of it.

And I got nervous at one point when it started getting too warm because I started sweating. And it was getting towards the end of the day too. And I didn't want that sweat to soak through my shirt. And then it got too late. And I was wet and moving slow. And then it's hard to come back for that. It's really hard to bounce back from that. Yeah, I mean, I could start to feel it when I had stop at eight stations and I would tell the crew, like, I got to keep moving.

Like, if I stop them, sweat's going to dry and get really cold and it's going to be hard to come back from. So, yeah. Sorry, that was a side note about the cold, but. That's good. It's important. I thought we dropped some knowledge there. No, but yeah, so I felt great. I was on a high.

Got in the car. Alex, A. Rod, our designer. He took me back and me and my wife. And we were having deep conversation on the way back. He was like, man, you were like, you were like, you were like, you know, sure. but you're also kind of like drunk just like a little, you know, woozy and giggly. And yeah, it definitely was on as like whatever you want to call it, runners high or, you know, just finishing.

Just, oh my gosh, it's all done. Just this release. And I got back to the house and, dude, the legs and everything just started to seize up. Trying to get in and out of the shower. Oh my gosh. Like knees wouldn't been. I just started shivering so bad. The shower in our cabin we had didn't get like hot.

And I was like, this is the worst time for the shower not to have hot water. So I was like trying to keep a cool. My wife, Michaela's run around the house trying to find one shower that has hot water. She got mine. Dude, well, I almost had to, but I didn't want to go back down the stairs. And so one of the upstairs ones, thank God, because it was already upstairs, got hot. And so it took me like probably five minutes just to get across this hallway to the other shower. I'm barely moving.

Energy's still great. Like, I was sharp. I felt good, which I was shocked. I thought my nervous system was just going to be like just a dumpster fire and just I was just going to go crash. So I got a shower. Felt good. Laid on the couch. Energy was still good, but man, your legs just start.

Everything starts like, I don't know if shutting down is the right word, but just locking up and getting tight and just you're so uncomfortable. I couldn't fall asleep. And then my body, I started to get really hot. I would just start drenching sweat. And then I got really cold again. And so couldn't really fall asleep. And at this point, it's like, you know, 11 o'clock, midnight. Yeah, everything was just really uncomfortable.

It felt like I had a fever. I felt like I had like the flu essentially. Like I was getting nauseous, never puked or anything. Couldn't eat though. And then legs were just so achy. I was trying to like elevate them and like lay sideways on the bed and couch. And yeah, so that wasn't enjoyable. But I still felt good.

I was having conversations just trying to keep my mind off of it. It still felt sharp up to. and my original plan was actually go shower and then go back because I wanted to see you finish. And everyone, I was, I was pretty like, you know, focus on getting that done. I was like, no, I need to be there from Nick. Like, he would do the same. And then everyone was like, I don't, I think Nick, like, he might do the same, but he also would understand if you just wait for him at the house.

Like, I was like, yeah, you're right. Like, it's like 25 degrees. You're right. I think he'll be cool with it. And so, yeah, I laid on the couch, didn't need anything. and was just kind of in and out, like, of sleep until you got home at, like, 2 a.m. And then I, like, bounced up. Everyone came in.

And it was like, I was reliving it all over again. You're, like, wobbling in. Your legs are hurting. You're trying to get to the shower to get warm. And then it was up to, like, 4 a.m. And then slept to, like, 10 a.m. the next day, and, man, the next day, I felt good. Like, I felt way better than I expected besides, like, my legs. Like, it was so hard to walk around, as you know.

You're just kind of, like, wobbling around. your legs are really weak. Your knees are stiff. They won't really bend, feet hurt. But I was really, really happy with how my nervous system held up and just,

like, didn't feel so taxed and like brain fog. And yeah, so that was like immediately after the race. And the week to follow, I guess it's like a whole other conversation.

But yeah. Yeah, I mean, as soon as I cross a finish line, I was kind of just like, all right, let's roll. Yeah.

So, cross the finish line, talk to the team. I was like, let's go to the truck. Got in the BPN, truck and drove right back to the house. And we were in the truck driving back after I crossed the finish line within a matter of

10 minutes. Yep. And I want to hide, like super clear. Yeah. My hands were super swollen. Yeah, that was interesting. My hands and my forearms. Yeah.

Like huge. Did you ever dig into that anymore? No, not really. But like they even like wrapped around my watch. It was like so weird. So weird. So swollen. Got back to the house, Airbnb, saw you.

And I knew my, I was. The reason I wasn't getting the truck. so fast because I know it's hard to control your body temperature after something like that. See, that was your knowledge. Mine was, I came back to our tent or our picnic table. It's 30 degrees out and I was like, I just want to soak this in. Like, I just finish this ultra. I just want to sit here. I'm going to eat some M&Ms. And then I sat down in like a minute later. And everyone around me, he's like, oh, just get in the truck. Just go. I was like, no, I want to soak this in. Like, let's just all embrace this. And a minute later, I was just

like starting to shiver. It took me everything to get like 50 yards to the truck. So this is lack of knowledge too. Very knowledgeable. I've been there before. Yeah, I was like, I need to get in the truck as soon as possible, have the heat on. Yeah. Because I knew my body temperature was just going to drop. Man. And we were in the truck driving back to the Airbnb. Once we got back to the Airbnb, this is where I messed up. So I was getting cold again, and I wanted to get out of those clothes into the shower. So I went and got in the shower. In our shower,

in our Airbnb room, same Airbnb, but different room, it got so hot. I think the heater, Like the Airbnb heater was in that bathroom. Definitely wasn't in my bathroom. It got so hot. So I got in there and all the steam was like trapped into and I was in there for like 20 minutes. Like just trying to get like dried up poop out of my butt and clean my feet and you know, you're just a disgusting mess after an ultra. Absolutely. And all of a sudden I started getting that same feeling that I got.

got in Leadville afterwards where I thought I was going to throw up. Because after Leadville, I was throwing up after the race. And I was like, okay, I'm about to throw up. I'm just going to throw up in the shower. But then I started getting super lightheaded and I was spinning. I was like, all right, this is new. So my idea was I need to get into my bed as soon as possible because I feel like I'm about to black out.

So I turned the water off, didn't dry off at all. And I just do a B-line to the bed. but as soon as I opened the shower door I blacked out I don't remember anything and Steph's on the bed and she sees me coming towards her like this big guy wobbling around and she thought I was joking

and... Because you fake this with her she put you on blast and said he does this all the time and jokes with me about this I do but in my head I'm like why would I do that after 100 miles? Yeah so then all of a sudden I pass out and I go face first

into the ground and I mean she thought I had a heart attack cried died. Yeah. So she's freaking out. She's yelling for everyone. Yep. I'm butt-ass naked.

Face down in my bedroom. Everyone runs in. And next thing I remember is someone's putting a spoon of honey in my mouth, pouring water on my face, and there's this towel over my butt. And I passed out. It was my first time ever passing out. I don't really know why. I'm assuming it was probably like cold to hot.

Yeah. And then blood pressure like just dropped. and I passed out. And then I just remember being butt-naked, turning around. Everyone's in the room with me. The funny part was, besides me,

because I was on the couch, you know, like 20 feet away. So as soon as it happened, Steph yells, everyone takes off running. By the time it was all over, like five minutes later,

I'm like, I was on my back on the couch, like awake talking. By the time it's over, I had just gotten to where I was, like, sitting up. And I was like, I felt so helpless

because I was just like, it was all happening. happening around me and I was like trying to get up and I was like turning like an old man and I was like this is what like old people must feel when something's going on and like I felt so helpless like I don't know another time of life like something's like that happened I can't just jump up and help I was just like yeah you guys got this I'm like trying to help like yeah give them honey I'm just like my brain's not not working at that point very well I was just like yeah I'm right behind Nick like you know this could happen to me in like the next 10 minutes so I

I probably should just take it easy, but I was like, after it's all good, I was just like replaying at my head. And it was like life was just happened and, you know, fast forward around me. And I'm just like slowmo trying to get off this couch just even like peek my head and like, what is going on? I just feel like an old man. It was hilarious. Well, it's still your body just doesn't work. Yeah. Just doesn't. Yep. So it kind of came to too after that. And Ada Beagle came out to let you guys know. I was like alive and well. Yep. And then went to bed. We woke up next morning. And I felt. really good compared to Leadville. Yeah.

Like really, really good. Drove home, like right away. Yeah, we woke up and I was kind of just like, let's get home. I need to get some greens and reds in me and get some nutrients back in my body. I was at Olive Garden. Dude, so we were trying to,

the thing with me, like, after I destroy my body in a race, I still want to put good things back in my body. I'm not saying Olive Garden's a bad thing. No, I mean, moving forward, like, I may have a different, you know, perspective. I was like, first one was like, We got to go something crazy.

Yeah. Well, we were dry. We left in the morning. And we said, all right, let's find the first Starbucks we can find. And we'll grab, like, some sandwiches and some eggway bites.

Yeah. From the Airbnb in Huntsville to Austin, the route it took us, there was no good food. It was like Taco Bells, pizza huts, McDonald's. Just all these little country towns

with like gas stations and fast food. I couldn't find anything. Nothing. So I didn't eat anything until I got home. Yep. And then I housed, like, I handed potatoes, cooked in beef tallows, some ground beef, some hummus. It was funny because you put on your Instagram story, this video of ground beef and sweet potatoes and said time to recover. And I never sent it to you because I was like, he might not even get it.

Like, we're not functioning very well right now. And I took a video, like, same angle of my tour of Italy and Olive Garden and a beer. I was like, going to send it to say Time to Recovery. I was like, I don't even know if this is going to land. I was just like, that's lame. I just put my phone away. I was like, I'm not in the space. Like, try to make a joke right now.

But yeah, everyone, like, at our table was like, thought it was just comical because I'm like down in breadsticks and tour of Italy and at Olive Garden. And I was like, yeah, that's just like, that's a difference sometimes. Like, run your own race. That's a thing. Yes. Whatever you're craving afterwards.

Dude. Yeah, because like other things, like you said you ate a chick flay sandwich. There are still chick flay sandwiches left over. And I was like, absolutely not. But for some reason, pasta, lasagna, chicken afraid, it sounds great, which seems way heavier. But it just sounded great. It's like the only thing that sounded great. It sounded great during the race.

I kept saying Olive Garden during the race. And people were like, yeah, yeah, like, just finish. We'll see you tomorrow. Stuck to my guns, man. Got that Olive Garden. What was interesting about Rocky Raccoon is for about five days after the race, every time I ate my stomach hurt. Yeah.

So even that first meal after the race, stomach was killing me. And it was like five days post race that lasted with every meal. I mean, it got better and better and better. But it just must have been like the gastrointestinal distress I experienced during the race that just did a number on my gut. Because I mean, you got to imagine you're consuming all these foods. Your body's trying to digest it. But the blood is also going to the muscles and you're trying to train and your body doesn't know what's going on or what to prioritize.

and then I get diarrhea and one thing after another and yeah five days after my stomach was still hurting with foods but 100% now right now I'm just you know obviously nursing some minor aches and pains and injuries but recovery based off of my experience with Leadville is night and day yeah yeah I'm interested like I don't know there's studies out there or research but you know it sounds like you know even the most elite ultra runners talk about about like every race can go so different. You know, you may do a hundred-mile or stomach holds up feel great. Then you could do another 100-mile or and you get 30 miles in your stomach is just like projecting food. Like I wonder at what point like do you like what actually adapts

to like ultra running like obviously your legs, your red blood cells like you become a better runner but I wonder if there's anything you can do to actually like help your stomach hold up better. Your nervous system to hold up better. Like, I don't, I don't know. Does that make sense? Like, it does. Like, you would think after doing something so hard as Leadville, the next time you do, when you do rock your raccoon, you

wouldn't have these problems or it wouldn't be as bad. And obviously, you felt better. Your nervous system was better. You recovered quicker, but you still had, like, these stomach issues. I wonder, like, how often you would have to do ultramarathons to, like, your body to adapt and say, like, all right, we're used to doing

this every hour on the hour. And I don't know. It's very interesting. It's hard sport to like adapt to because you they're so spaced out. It's so intense. Like very different. Yeah. I mean, the only thing about that is your muscles, your central nervous system, it adapts to a stimulus and becomes accustomed to the stimulus, volume, intensity, density. but the gut, the microbiome is always changing in the gut based off of so much stuff. So I think the gut is the most unpredictable part of your body. So I think that's why you never know how it's going to respond because the microbiome is always changing. The amount in types of bacteria in your gut are always different based off where you're at, where you're eating at the time, viruses you've had if you were on antibiotics. So I think it's one of those things that you can train,

but it's also so unpredictable based off where your microbiome is at that time. Yeah, it's kind of just left up for, let's see how this race goes, and we'll try to put the puzzle pieces together as we go. Because, I mean, you hear of these ultra runners, like, they have a plan or they've had a plan that's worked for five years. And yeah, they've had their ups and downs, but this is what I use. This is what I eat. And then one day their body is just like, nope, not anymore.

and they have to completely like, you know, shift and say, okay, like, what can I sub this? What can I sub in or out for this? That's pretty cool, like, about the sport. Because as soon as you think you have it figured out, it seems like it just throws you for a loop. You go and that's why I think my next 100K I do. It's like, I can't really have a lot of expectations still. I know kind of how they work, but it could go completely different way than this one did. So that's like the cool part of it, but also the scary and exciting part of it.

You build your like your skill set of how to adapt. Yeah. So you learn, okay, my body's doing this. Let's change this. Let's implement this. Let's increase this or that. You learn how to adapt to it. Post race, mentally, how did you feel?

Like I guess I'll kind of talk about my experience first. Yeah. Give some context. After Leadville, what I felt mentally was obviously a lot of brain fog. but I could definitely tell my central nervous system was taxed, and I was irritable, I was kind of moody, I was kind of a little shit to be around, but I was mentally aware of, okay, this is,

I'm feeling this because of what my bodies went through in that race. I felt similar effects after Rocky, where I was more prepared for it this time, moody, irritable, small things pissed me off for about a week. Definitely brain fog. After coming back from Rocky, I was working with our new CFO, Josh, on some financial models. I was having a hard time following these financial models. And it was so frustrating because I knew I could typically follow it.

My brain was just not absorbing and retaining this information. Did you experience that? Yeah, absolutely. All the above. Iritable, moody. just like not creative brain fog having problems you know issues like finding solutions and you know adapting and yeah it was just all the above of just falling short in every area um and i i'd been warned of it from you you know you told me after leadville this time i felt and and so i was i was aware it was

going on but it still like would take you know check-ins all throughout the day i'd be like why am i charitable. Why am I kind of grumpy? Why can I figure out this problem? Why can I come up with an idea? Why do I not feel creative? And oh, yeah, or in, you know, 100K this weekend. And part of me was like, oh, like, you don't like, can't blame it on that. But man, it's real. Like, you know, obviously 100K is still very different than 100 miles. But again, going back to like relative, it probably had the toll on my body as 100 miles does on yours because you're just, yeah, more, you've been doing it longer and, and you have that aerobic base. But, but. But yeah, man, I felt it this week. And I would say until like Saturday, Sunday, I started to feel good. I was able to just kind of have time to myself and just rest and heal and relax. But all week at work was a struggle. Like a perfect, yeah. Like you had the example of Josh.

Yeah. Example just talking with the creative team. And I was like, I have nothing to give this week. Like I am just stinking right now. And again, I would have to be, oh yeah, okay. I ran 100K. Like have a little grace with yourself. You're good.

like just get through this week and yeah I felt it for sure not not as bad as I anticipated but still felt it and it took a lot of micro check-ins to like remind myself for sure oh overall in an ultra there's a lot of wins there's some losses you learn from those losses you adapt you re-implement but you can apply a lot of the lessons to life as a whole absolutely man it's amazing it's a really cool experience it is quite the experience well Jordan congratulations. Your first ultra, I'm sure a hundred

miler is in the future. Absolutely. One day. One day. We'll be their support. Appreciate you. All right, man. Thank you.

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