The Nick Bare Podcast - Archive - Sally McRae | Running 507 Miles In 81 Days | Choose Strong

Episode Date: December 12, 2022

Welcome back to the podcast for her second time, elite runner and BPN athlete: Sally McRae! After completing the Choose Strong Project, Sally sits down with Nick to bond over their love for weight training and how their approach to fitness has evolved over the years. Sally reflects on her early career when many viewed strength training as unnecessary for runners and the unique challenges, she faced in pushing back against that notion as a performance athlete. Sally passionately speaks to the perspective that life is more about how we make others feel than simply our physical appearance. This episode goes beyond just recognizing the accolades of human performance but really emphasizes the commonalities we all have as humans, whether in parenthood, insecurities, or how to be strong for life. “Let’s talk about what we’re doing and not what we look like.” - Sally The Choose Strong Project was an endurance-based event in which she ran 507 miles over the course of 81 days, during 5 separate races. She created this project in honor of her late mother, running 1 mile for every month of her mother’s life. For this project Sally ran Bad Water 135, Angles Crest 100, Leadville 100, Wildstrubel 100k, and a double summit of Mt. Whitney. About Sally: Sally McRae is a professional ultra/mountain runner for Nike. Also known as Yellowrunner, Sally often uses her platform to encourage others in their dream journey and to inspire others to live out their lives to the fullest. She is also a mother of two, endurance coach, writer, speaker, and creates content focused on strength training, dedication, and inspiration. She most recently launched her own strength and mental training app: SALLY MCRAE STRENGTH which you can download directly from her website (sallymcrae.com) or Instagram: @yellowrunner  More Resources: BPN Website - Supplements and Apparel: www.bpnsupps.com Nick’s Website: www.nickbare.com Nick’s Instagram: @nickbarefitness Nick’s Youtube: www.youtube.com/user/barelifenutrition Follow Us On Social Media: Instagram: @thebareperformancepodcast Facebook: The Bare Performance Podcast

How often are we tied to the way we look? And whether it's our hair, our skin, boobs, but, like, whatever it is, we really believe that the way that we look is the best thing about us. That can be really disappointing when you realize that is not the best thing about you. It's who you are uniquely. How do you make other people feel when you're in their presence? What do you do for others? Like the passions and the goals and the dreams

and the things that you just naturally love and gravitate towards, I mean, there's so many little pieces that make you so uniquely you. But the physical side of who you are is absolutely wonderful too, because it's so unique. I mean, every single tiny inch

from our fingerprints to the number of hairs on our head, our eye color. I mean, the way that you walk, I mean, tell me that when Steph is half mile away, you would be able to pick her out from 20, 20 other women. You know your wife, by the way, that she walks. And that's beautiful, you know?

And I think that we tend to focus so much on certain physical attributes about people and we obsess over them and we think that's what makes that person valuable. Or this is the trait that is going to give you permission to do what you love. And I love that you're disrupting that. Let's disrupt that. You do not need to focus. so much on what you look like in order to do what you love. Just do it. Let's talk about what we're doing and not what we look like. Welcome back to another powerful episode of the podcast. I'm your

host, Nick Baer, founder and CEO of Bear Performance Nutrition. Every week, we bring you insightful stories, knowledge, and inspiration to help you reach your full potential in life, fitness, and business. If you enjoy the message we're promoting in this podcast, we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave a rating and review on the platform you're listening to. Make sure she subscribe so you don't miss out on future episodes that embody the go one more mindset. Okay, we have Sally McRae back on the Bear Performance Podcast alumni one year ago and you're back. And I'm back. I can't believe it's been one year.

So much has changed in this one year, Nick. For both of us. How many miles do you think you've run in the last year? Oh my goodness. Well, the project alone was over 500 miles. And the training outside of that, a few thousand. Yeah. I've done a lot more strength training this year than I have in previous years.

I do want to dive into that. Yeah. I'm very curious. I think a lot of our listeners are very interested in that as well. Yeah. I mean, I think you and I kind of, we tread on that same wave as running far and and lifting, right? That those two can be done harmoniously, absolutely.

But yeah, this year I didn't pay too much attention to how many miles I was logging. I know part of it was because I have a lot of confidence in the many years that I've been running far. So you can appreciate the hard work of previous years. So I've been an ultra runner for 12 years. So I just have a different perspective on 100-mileers and even back. bad water. You know, you do something over and over and over again and your brain, it's pretty powerful. I don't think of a hundred miles as, oh my gosh, can I make it? Can I go that far?

I was just explaining to someone earlier how sometimes I feel like it goes really fast, you know, when you're in it because you just engage with it in a different way. What's very interesting about that is, you know, it's all relative. Like hard and challenging is relative and like what's hard for you. It might not be hard for someone else and, you know, vice versa. Yeah. And I think a lot of people put these things, these events, these challenges in life on these pedestal, and they look at it as, well, I can never get there, but I'm going to get

as close as possible. And then, you know, you start making an effort towards that goal. And then you finally, by some miracle, you know, it seems like sometimes you accomplish this goal. And you quickly realize it. It's almost like this door is opened in your mind. You think, I think I can do. I don't think I know I can do anything I want in the world.

I just have to go do it now. But a lot of people will never take that key and open that door, both like physically and mentally. They don't allow themselves. But once you do, powerful. Absolutely. I talk to a lot of people that, I mean, we ourselves are worse critics.

Like we put those limits on ourselves. tell ourselves, well, I'm just, I'm not made out for that. Or, you know, I could never do that. We just say those things to ourselves. And a lot of times those are rooted in something from our past, something that someone said, a failure that we can never get over. So then it's fear of failure again or how we're going to look in front of somebody. And it's really interesting because on the other side of never turning that door and realizing, wow, if I just try, I can do more, it's also putting your entire self into one event and dedicating yourself to it so much

and then achieving it, being so stoked by it, only to be sad, only to realize that whatever it was you were looking for in that actual event or race or whatever gold is, to think that that's it for you, to think that something in you like monumentally was going to change. And what's important to remember is every time we hit a goal, it isn't supposed to be,

okay, now you're done. Like, this is it. Like, you made greatness. So, like, you achieved what you wanted to. It should always be a stepping stone until you actually are done. And, you know, I always say there's one finish line in life, and that's the end of your life. And I think it's a great way to approach, if you're in endurance sports, a great way to approach racing, especially if you have to DNF or you're not, you get injured and you can't make it to the start line,

or you don't have the race that you hope for. It's, this isn't the only race, though. Even if you trained for six months and it didn't go the way that you wanted to, that's just the stepping stone to the one finish line. But it is sad if we never even get to the first step, if we never even think that we can begin at all. Were you sad after your first couple ultras? Do you expect to feel something that you didn't feel?

after my first ultra is more along the lines of what you just described like wow dude that was awesome like oh what else can I do but I think that side of me is a little bit more natural to just who I was from the time I was little

is always very curious always in wonderment about things I love this idea of discovery and always yeah I think wonder is probably the best way to describe it So I finished that race and a few weeks later I did another one.

And then a week after that, I did another one. I mean, I did so many races that first year. But I think where I've gotten in trouble in my life just in general, even outside of running, is wrapping myself up in one single result. And, you know, I've had moments in my life or even when I achieved something and then I wasn't happy about it. Because what I realized is whatever I was chasing in that goal wasn't. wasn't what I needed.

It was actually me hiding behind something else that I needed. And so allowing myself, especially now, because I run for a living, allow myself to be okay with looking at who I am, regardless of if it's a failure or an achievement, I want to know that my life is meaningful and impactful if all of that was taken away. So, and I think people struggle with that,

like whether they're injured or if they don't, they're not able to do what they want to do or they have to pit the pause peasant. It's like, but wait, like that's like who I am. But it's realizing, no, who you are is who you are is who you were from day one. And that's, that's enough. Have you found over the years you've become desensitized

to a certain stimulus of achievement, like meaning being back to like your first year of running? Yeah. And prior to a race, you get this dopamine dump and you're so excited and there's so much energy and then you cross the finish line. And it's like you want to pop bottles of champagne and go celebrate and go nuts. And then like there's like this stimulus and like literally a dopamine dump associated with those feelings. And then the longer you do it, the longer you do it, have you found that you become, I don't want to say numb. But like it's almost like an addict where the longer you do it, that dopamine,

mean hit isn't the same, you become desensitized. Have you found that with ultras, you've experienced that? I think that's why I love ultras so much, because they are, um, there isn't really a perfect way to execute an ultra. Like when you were training for your sub 250 marathon, it was very easy to sit down and look at each mile. how fast you wanted to run it. Yeah.

You were able to get down to almost like the minute of what you're going to do. And a part of that is because of the course that you were running on. You can control a lot of variables. There's so, when you can control more, yeah, you're a little bit more confident going into it. You're kind of have a more accurate expectation. With Ultras, UTMB is a great example. I ran that five times. And every year it was different weather.

So two times the course was changed a few days before for that particular weather. But your gear is different. You're going at a different pace. Like I remember this one section had mud up to my shins for like four miles. But all the other four years, I didn't. So I think with ultras, I go into those with, it's like, well, how is this race going to be? Like, I know I can't perfect it. I can't tell you what pace I'm.

going to run every single mile. And so that is actually what makes it exciting to me is it's like a new adventure every single time. But it tests me too because ultras demand that you stay flexible. They demand that you walk into a challenge and allow yourself to figure out like the best way to move forward in that situation. So if you start vomiting or the weather does change and it starts snowing, what are you going to do?

How are you going to respond? and you can't control that. And I think because of that, I've learned a lot about myself. But as far as like that finish line feeling, that means desensitized about that achievement, crossing that line, I don't know.

I don't think I've gotten there yet. I think I love running so much. And I've been given so many opportunities to run all over the world that every time I stand in a start line, I get excited about the adventure that's ahead of me. But that took some time because before that, I used to be very tied to results and how I performed. And when you let go of that, it changes your experience. So what made you say that you wanted to run 507 miles over the course of 81 days

entitled to the Choose Strong Project? Like we're, how long was that idea and concept in your mind? And then when is the first time you kind of put it out into the world and said, I'm going to do this. And this is the reason why. So I thought about turning the age that my mom was when she died, which is 43. I thought about that for many, many years. I was 17 when she passed away.

And as a kid, it's easy to. formulate your whole world right there within your family, the way that you react to things around you, the way that you look at relationships. And I think when my mom got really sick, I thought, wow, gosh, she's so young. Is that how it's going to be for me too? And so I always had that fear. It wasn't necessarily a fear I would share people because sometimes I'd be like, no, it's ridiculous. Like you can't just think that because something happens to one person, that it's going to happen to you too, or that because, you know, life was so hard, it's going to continue to get hard, and then that's how your life is going to end as well.

So I always fought with both of those things. But one of the turning points is when I became a mom. And I really missed her a lot when my kids were born. And I missed her in ways that I had never experienced before. And I remember this one time, when I was 15. My mom already knew that her cancer was terminal. And we were buying a gift for somebody in a babies R S or toys R S.

and we walked by the baby bag section. And she says to me, if you could choose any baby bag, which one would you choose? So I look on the wall and I choose them. And she's like, that's the one I would choose. That one's so cute. And even at 15, I understood that interaction. mom knew she would never have that experience with me she knew she wouldn't see her grandkids she knew that she wouldn't be with me when I'd have my kids and for whatever reason that's one of the

stories that I remembered after I had McKenzie was it was so simple it's the simple everyday interactions that you miss and that support and that excitement like I I didn't have any of that and And as my kids got older, there is another really powerful interaction. And that was when my mom, she came home with a vegetable juicer. And I was, again, like 15 years old at this time. And the way that we grew up, the only vegetables and fruit in our house was bananas and apples and carrots and celery. And sometimes she'd steam turnips and broccoli and really gross. but it was just rare having that stuff in our house.

So we didn't have cheese. We had cheese slices. We didn't have bread. We had bread slices. It was just all the generic, really cheap stuff. So when she takes out this juicer and all these vegetables that I haven't seen before, you know, big green leafy vegetables and there's beets and she's shoving this stuff into this juicer and it's vibrating the counter and she's saying how expensive this thing was.

And, you know, we didn't have a lot of money to just go out and buy a juice. or, but she had her whole supplement list right there too. She had like 40 bottles of different vitamins. And I walk in, I'm like, mom, like, I don't understand why you're juicing. They have all these vitamins. Like, what are you doing? It's like, well, the doctor said that I should, you know, I should just eat a lot better. I shouldn't be, you know, eating as much sugar and processed foods.

And that the green juice is going to fight the cancer. Like that's going to, it's going to make me feel better. I'm going to be stronger. and then I just need to eat a lot less of this. Well, for whatever reason, that made me so angry because we had never had, you know, health insurance, we weren't going to doctors regularly, but I just remember feeling like,

why didn't, why didn't we do this earlier? Yeah. Like, why didn't, if we had known that, would you be healthier? And so as my kids got older, and I drink green juice all the time. There's actually a bottle of green juice right now in my hotel room. but I always think of her every time I drink it.

And when my kids were little, I would tell myself, I want to be strong for them. And strong for me is also about what I'm eating. It's the food that I'm putting my body because when I look at food, it needs to be fuel and it needs to fight against, you know, the toxins that are in our everyday environment. Disease. Yeah, disease. And so that's the path that I've been on for many years. since, I mean, my kids are 14 and 16 now, and I've always had that in the back of my mind

that I don't want to be sick. I don't want my daughter to be watching me juice in a desperate, and to be juicing vegetables and fruit as a desperate way to elongate my life at 43. Like, I want to be able to be strong for my kids. I want to run with them. I want to be able to go to all of their sporting events and, um, I want to grow with them. So the closer that I got to this age, I think it then shifted into celebration because for as long as my kids can remember,

they've watched me compete, they've watched me run and train and do the best that I can to be strong. And so that's where the project kind of started to take shape is what can I do to celebrate this year that when my mom was 43, she was saying goodbye to her five children. And I'm 43 and I'm living a very different life.

I'm strong, I'm healthy. I'm not sick. And so coming up with what to do to celebrate, I mean, that took me, that took me some time. That took several months. I went back and forth on a lot of different things. You may have known about some of them. I think there's an iron man in there at some point.

Bold and crazy decisions. Yeah. But you ended up on something even bolder and crazier. Yeah. I wanted to tell a story. I love sharing stories as a way to connect with people. I think that humanity we connect through stories. You know, history itself is the word stories in that word, right?

and I think that when we share our story, we're sharing a piece of ourselves. And I think that's a good way to live life. But it takes vulnerability. It takes humility, which I don't have a lot of. So I think the story that I wanted to tell ultimately was not about me doing these races. And I didn't really talk about my time or place or anything like that. I was simply using the races as a way to tell chapters in a story. And for me, I mean, these races running in itself, it's something I love. I love being in the mountains. I have a

really strong connection with my mom in the mountains. Some of my favorite memories are with her summers in the mountains. So I thought, I'm going to craft something together that tells her story. And so that's how I picked the races. So it started with Badwater, which is the toughest but race on the planet as it's coined. And then all the races after that, there is six total on the list, were all very close together. So I purposely chose these races

because I wanted them to assimilate her life story. But it also challenged me to set the tone and kind of feel her story. So I chose races that were long. And then I only allowed myself two at the very most three weeks recovery in between each one. How long ago did you finish the last race? It's been five weeks now.

Do you feel fully recovered? I do. I actually feel pretty good. You know what's amazing is your body begins to adapt to distress. Our bodies are so powerful. You know, I thought that I would be, I really thought I would be decimated after this and not want to do any type of training that my body is going to be really tired. But I feel really good.

I don't have, I'm like really excited to train each day. I'm in the gym a lot lifting. I'm not running as much. Usually this time of year is my off season. So I take anywhere between six and eight weeks off. I don't do as much running as I usually do, really give myself some rest. But yeah, I actually feel pretty, pretty recovered, surprisingly. It's not anything I'd recommend anyone to do.

Yeah. Did you do any blood work or any sort of objective data throughout this to test what was happening to your body? Right before I did it, which I need to go back to, I did Inside Tracker. Okay. And then I need to go back and look at what's going on. I probably should have done it a little bit closer to the finish. I'm so curious. How beat up I am inside.

I was like central nervous system, adrenal hormones, how those were taxed over the course of, you know, five, plus miles in such a condensed timeline. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely felt it. I mean, there was always a point in each race, and I knew it, that I felt like the residual exhaustion from the race before. And I was like, dang, dude, I'm tired. Like mentally, too.

You're just like, really, we're doing this again? We're at mile 81. Yeah. And then sometimes I would think about, wow, in two weeks, I have to go do Leadville. Did you reach, uh, did you reach, uh, did you reach, a level of a pain cave during this block that you've never reached before in a previous ultra? I think what I experienced outside of any other ultra was probably at one point I had a little bit of fear

in a way that I haven't experienced before, just fear of, and I think it was at Ludville. I was pretty fearful about how I would breathe there. and that was a little bit of a concern. Like down to the point where I was like, okay, there are medical attention out there. I think I'm going to be okay. But as far as a pain cave goes, I suppose when you expect discomfort,

when you just know it's going to come at some point, I just settled into it. I don't really, I don't know if I would call it like a pain cave as much as just welcoming what I already knew that I was walking into. And, you know, I definitely had moments, especially on Mount Whitney was pretty. The double sum of Mount Whitney was pretty challenging. And one of the reasons why was because it was just, it was the end of the project.

So I was very tired. But I was also doing something that I actually had never done in my life and something that no one has ever done before. So I was a little, a little afraid. That's expected. Yeah, I was a little afraid about how all of that was going to go down right down to logistics. I was, I was pretty anxious about it.

But, you know, dragging my leg, Badwater 135, that was pretty painful. I didn't think that when I knew I had 70 more miles and I wasn't able to run, that I would just have to walk painfully for 70 miles. That was, I don't even know how to explain that. On race one. In race one. And race one. Yeah, in race one, I experienced something I'd never experienced before.

So like my hip capsule froze up. It felt like someone had jammed my leg into my hip. And we were trying everything we could to loosen that up. And I could kind of do like a hobble. And I'm 70 miles away from the hip. finish line and I look at my crew and I'm like you guys I I can't even get in the running position if I want to I'm going to have to power hike this in but telling myself that I couldn't even think about the fact that it was 70 miles I just had to do it and it hurt I don't think there

was a step that I wasn't in pain but looking back on it like after I finish I was like that's pretty awesome like I was able to do all that in pain and and and keep going and and it was something we were able to correct with the PT. It wasn't like an injury. She had to, my hips always fall out, alignment, everything, but she was able to unlock me. It took her a long time to do. It was pretty painful. But it didn't give me enough recovery before going to AC 100. And I ended up jacking up my knee just because I was walking all weird at bad water. So I stressed out the other leg. So then I screwed up my knee at AC 100. So then I got to Ludville and pretty, pretty much. And pretty much from the start. I was in a knee brace trying to correct that one and then I fell super

hard on Hope's Pass like so hard like someone had just thrown me on the ground. Going up or down? Going down and just ripped open my knee. So I thought, you know, every race it's like getting worse and I'm experiencing things that I don't normally experience. Like this isn't normal like in my career. I haven't had so many problems in races. So. I thought, no, I said I wanted to tell my mom's story. So this is actually cueing up to be pretty spot on. Realistic? Yeah. Well, Badwater really set you up for pure success going into the next couple hundred miles. Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty rough. Do you think it was,

do you think you can contribute a lot of your strength training to your durability and ability to last all those miles throughout the challenge? 100%. I mean, especially bad water. Because bad water, you know, you have to climb three mountain passes and you're fully exposed. I mean, and the dissents are pretty merciless too. I mean, you're on the road. And I feel like a mountain descent is, I'd run a mountain descent any day.

I don't care if it's 10 miles long down a mountain, but a road mountain descent, it was brutal. It was really painful. On your quads? On everything. I mean, your lower back, your feet. It just, it's just this flat pounding that you can't change your position. And I think that's the thing about road running, why it hurts so much, especially on a flat course. Because you never get out of that position.

It's like just someone punching you over and over and over again in the same spot in your arm. Like, after a while, it just hurts. Like you wanted to punch somewhere else to give you a break. And trail running kind of does that. Like your body's changed different positions. you know, you're moving laterally sometimes. You're leaning into a mountain. The terrain changes.

So then your gate changes. But on the road, that doesn't happen. So, but what I did notice was that despite what I was feeling in my hip, the rest of my body felt really strong. Like in my torso, like my back, my other leg, my glutes. Like I felt that whatever is weak, I'm just going to engage everything around that. And so I was very focused on engaging all the muscles around that hip. and just moving forward. And I've always,

I've always believed in strength training for endurance running. I know it hasn't always been popular, but if you're going to go far, if you want to do an endurance sport, you need to build a body that can endure. And especially as a mountain runner, I mean, you're enduring all kinds of different terrains

and climates. And then the further you go, well, then it doesn't really even become a run. about your body anymore, then that's just your brain. So if your body is already weak and you're already broken down and then your mind is weak too, I mean, you're just not setting yourself up for success. So my lead up to the project was way more strength training, a lot more heavy type lifting. I was in the gym probably four to five days a week, but that was the goal is just make my body strong

to endure whatever is thrown at me. Well, anyone that follows me knows that I'm team strength training. Yes. Team hybrid. I love it. I love it. I love it. I think, you know, more now than ever because of the disruptor that it is to the previous community.

Oh, yeah. You know, Mark Bell, he has this saying that I love its strength is never a weakness and weakness is never a strength. Now you don't have to apply that to like strength training and being physically strong. You can apply that to be mentally strong. You know, like being weak is never a strength. I don't care how you argue it. I just truly believe that. In terms of like training for the races I've done the last couple of years,

I think having a strength foundation, having muscle was only a benefit. And obviously being heavier as I was early on. was not a benefit, a pro, but having strength, having durability, it allowed me to go faster and further. And, you know, even if you look back, I'm sure you're seeing the community and industry change. You look back three years ago, like strength training in endurance sports was frowned upon. And then some people started doing it. And now it's, you're starting to see a lot of endurance athletes incorporate strength training into the routine. I'd say like...

It's amazing. At least I'm sure all the pros are doing it. Oh my gosh. I mean, it's baffling sometimes because, especially on my end, I've been on both sides of it. So I remember sitting in Colorado in a classroom getting a run coaching certification. It's like back in 2013. And at this time, I was already a few years into ultra running. And these certifications were for road running.

at the furthest it was marathons and at this time very much into strength training i i have been pretty much my whole life since i was a teenager and i remember every now and then you know kind of raising my hand talking about you know what about strength training and it was just unanimous across the whole classroom as you have coaches flying in from all over the nation and then you have like these expert coaches who coach you know our professional athletes who represent the united States, you know. And no one wanted to do more than a little bit of dumbbell work. Yeah, maybe you'll put a two or three pound dumbbell in there. Maybe they'll do some planks or something like that. But it was pretty common to be almost laughed at or that's ridiculous. That's a waste of time.

If you're not running, then you're not improving as a runner. Don't waste your time doing strength training. And then the following year when I got signed with Nike, I remember being especially nervous because Nike was such a big brand. And I thought, well, they take lots of pictures and do photo shoots and things like that. And sure enough, the first week that I was signed with them, I flew up to the headquarters and we did a photo shoot. And when I stepped out of the van, my teammate looked at my legs and I was the only girl on the team and he was like, dude, you have huge legs. And I was like, I know I was a soccer player in my whole life. He's like, I was a soccer player too. My legs never got that big. And I was like, nice to meet you, bro. But like, I just felt so,

different from not only everyone on the team, but just am I supposed to be here? Because I don't feel like I see a lot of other girls that have my body. I'm 5, 6, 140-something pounds. And we did a photo shoot and I remember so well when Nike posted that photo shoot because I was excited to see the picture. I was like, dude, yeah, I'm on Nike's website and on their Instagram. And it was just like she's huge, she's big. There's no way she's a runner.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Screw them. No, it's fine. I'm going to fight those people right now. But I have to tell you something because, you know, I had a coaching business at the time. And that has always been a big part of how I coached athletes and was the strength. And I never strayed away from it.

But I did have seasons in my career. And at one point, I actually reached out to a pretty well-known coach. And I was like, dude, I need to get rid of this muscle. Like, I literally asked him what should be. should I do to get rid of this muscle? And he sends me back an email. He's like, well, you can do it. I did. Like, I just, I stopped doing any type of strength training for a full year. Like, don't do any lifting at all. Make sure all your runs are just like in the fat burning zone. Like, just like allow yourself to kind of go into muscle atrophy. And I took that in because this guy

is a great runner, great coach. And for a hot minute, I was like, I'm going to do that. And then I went and I saw a, I did two different tests, a Dexas scan and I did the dunk test. And both people, I didn't tell them what I did for a living. Like I was like super self-conscious. Like I didn't want, because anytime I would tell people as you're a runner like, dude, you're so big. And I was just like, I'm just tired of hearing that.

So I go in and what are you here for? I just want to see what my fat is and muscle and all that. So she dunks me and she does the test on me and she's like, what do you do for a living? And I was like, oh crap. So I'm like telling her that I run. And I go, actually, I'd love for you to like help me lose this muscle in my legs. And she wouldn't work with me.

She thought I had like an eating disorder, you know, that I had a problem. She's like, I've never, ever had anybody come to me and say, can you help me lose muscle? She's like, it's usually the other way around. So maybe you need to go talk to somebody else. And I was like, dude, I love to eat. Like I'm not like, I just, I really need to know how to get smaller. And she's like, why? She's like, if that's what you do for a living, why would you want to change?

change it. If you're a professional, then obviously what you're doing, you must be pretty good at what you're doing. So why would you change what got you there? And I thought about that, but it just didn't satisfy me because I still felt like I was in a community where most of my competitors did not look like me. And the girls that were doing great were a lot smaller. They're skinnier. They're petite. They weren't muscular. And so I then went to a Dexascan place and did the same thing. I didn't tell him what I did. And the guy comes back from results. He's all, what do you do for a living?

And I was like, why? He's like, because usually only my professional hockey players look like this. I go, okay, I go, well, I run. He's like, you do? And I was like, yeah. He's like, okay, I didn't think that you'd run. And I go, well, can you help me, like, reduce that muscle size? And kind of the same thing, he just kind of looked at me sideways.

And he's like, I think that would be a detriment to your performance. He's like, you literally can't lose any more fat. And you would just then be losing muscle and you probably wouldn't be as strong as, as you normally are when you perform and your performance would start to fail. So that was, I had a season where I really struggled with myself. I felt like, you know, to be accepted in the endurance community, I can't be so muscular. And I'll tell you what, I just on a whim, the more I thought about it, I was like, I'm super unhappy.

I'm really unhappy with this idea that I have to, like, not, really not go in the gym for a whole year and not strength train or, like, change apps, like, literally who I am and take away all the things that I've known my whole life. And I like being strong. I like lifting. Like, it's way out even outside of, like, performance or wanting to have muscles. Like, I really love to lift. And so I just decided to embrace it.

And that's kind of what I've put out a lot in social media is like, yep, yeah, there's the muscles. And I'm not popular. I mean, I've listened to some popular coaches, their podcasts. I've listened to other athletes. And it's just talking about you? Not to my face. But talking about you? Talking about people who strength train and spend a lot.

of time lifting and why it's way more important that you put all your focus on running. And if you want to be a better runner, then you just need to run more. And I get that. I mean, you want to specialize in the thing that you're doing, even as it comes down to workouts, right? Like you want to have specific weight workouts for if, you know, if you really want to hit a run workout, then you're going to lift a different way for that day. So the programming, all of that has always made sense to me. And I never lifted for size. That was a thing too.

I was like, I don't go in the gym and I'm like, dude, need to get it as big as I possibly can. Like, the goal was to get up the mountain as fast as I could, but I knew I needed to be able to endure the mountain and be strong. And so that's how I've always lifted. I just want to be strong. And so I think the shift now that we're seeing, and I don't know if it's because it's popular on social media, you know, it's popular to post about strength.

but people that I never thought that would be talking about strength and running and why runners should do it and here's my routine and here's what I do and it's strength training season and I'm like really because a couple years ago that was not

that was definitely not the message people follow trends people follow the trends if it's hot stay in the fire yeah but it's good too because I'm like yes let's get strong no matter how it comes out

If it comes out in a, if the result of strength was born out of negativity or just because people thought it was a trendy popular thing, great, because strength is here to stay. People are strong. We are resilient. I think that's literally woven into the fabric of who we are. There is a reason why, even in our 90s, we can continue to build muscle. There is a reason for that. And I think that's just so fascinating about the human body.

we are supposed to be strong and we are supposed to train our bodies to be strong and not just for a running event. I think that, and I talk about this in my book, it's actually a, I think in the project too, we talk about it. But I wrote this poem called Lift, Pole Carry. I think I've actually posted on Instagram before as well. But it's this idea of when I was 16, my mom was in a wheelchair and I helped her out of the wheelchair. and I had been lifting at that time

and she needed someone to help her go to the bathroom. And I look back on that now that I'm a mom and envisioning my daughter having to help me get out of a wheelchair. But I was really strong when I was 16. And I was training my body because I wanted to change my life. And the only way I knew to change my life and to get out of the situation I was in

was by being able to go to college. And for me, that was my ticket to a better life. go to college, become a professional soccer player, like this is it. But what that showed me at that time is that a strong body can lift others up. And as I've moved on throughout my life and in college, Eddie and I used to do a bunch of work internationally with orphans. We used to go around and build houses and impoverished areas. I mean, that's such an amazing feeling to be able to pick up an orphan or be able to build a house for somebody else. that takes an able, strong body to do those things.

And so if, you know, if someone tells me they're lacking mojo or they're not motivated or, you know, they've just like achieved their goal of the half marathon and they just aren't feeling anymore, they're down. It's like, well, you get back in the gym, not for yourself. Because being on this earth isn't about just making yourself as comfortable and is pleased for yourself as you possibly can. if you can look at your life as being able to contribute to those around you, you know, lift others up, you know, pull for those who are weak,

carry each other's burdens. I mean, that's a full life. That's a great way to train your body. If you know that you're going to be able to impact other people around you. And I'll never, ever forget that story of helping my mom. I mean, I love that as a 16-year-old girl, I was able to pick up dead weight out of a wheelchair and take her to the toilet.

I mean, I couldn't have done that if I wasn't lifting at that time. And so I've always carried that into everything that I do. And when I got signed as a runner and felt like, gosh, I just can't do this anymore, it was like, no, but I like, I love it. I love being strong, not just because I can run and I feel great and I'm injury-free, but it's like, I want to be strong for life, for everything that I do. Do you still get criticism? for being a jacked runner,

jacked professional runner? You know, I have to, you know, I want to be gracious and I want to be gracious and kind with, with this because I think, you know, I had a fitness business. I started in 2007 and I would train women. And I remember how sensitive the women that I worked with were to comments. I mean, it would just like ruin their whole day

if maybe their husband said something that they didn't like or a friend said something about their body or how they looked or what they were eating. I was like, wow, like we really wear other people's comments. Like we wear what people think of what we look like. And so I got really used to that. Like after several years of just, I ran these like boot camps. I'd listen. I'd listen to how much when it came down to it, yes, I would train them to lift weights.

but what they came to me the most for was just like this emotional support, like someone to listen, someone to encourage them and kind of walk them through this transformation that they were trying to go through. So they're trying to transform their bodies and get stronger and get fitter. But what I understood was, no, actually you need someone to lift you up. You need someone to encourage you that's going to point you toward hope and say, yeah, keep going like you are strong. Because if I'm not showing up and doing that for you each day,

you're actually not even coming to class. So we created this community that still last today, actually. I don't teach that classroom. All those ladies are still good friends. But I'm like, what kept that so rooted was the mental aspect to it. So when people have said comments to me, which I've gotten a lot, I get it from strangers all the time. You know, I'll be in the grocery store, I'll get in coffee out with the kids. I mean, it's to the point where my kids are like, dude, mom, like,

Why do people always say stuff to you? Like, they're confused because I'm just mom, you know? Right. And now that they're in high school, too, that's really interesting too. And they come home, dude, my friend, saying you're so jacked, mom. Your arms aren't even that big, though. Like, my son is like, my son. And it's true.

Like, I actually have really little arms. I mean, I think I do. I think a crossfitter, if I sat with, like, Laura, for example, was on the BPN team. Right. My gosh, dude. Beautiful, strong arms. But she'd probably laugh if I told her how many times people ask.

ask if I'm a crossfitter because it's like, really, you can wrap your hand right around those babies. There's obvious like muscle like development. Yeah. You're a very fit, like, you're not this like lanky, just skinny runner. Mm-mm. You have like a built frame. Like you're an athlete. Yeah.

Like you look like an athlete. Yeah. You are an athlete. I am an athlete. I've looked like an athlete. I think my whole life. I also think that genetically, I can't remember a time even as a little girl. I felt like I just put on muscle pretty easily.

So it has been something that I've been used to my entire life. I've always, since the time I was in elementary school, have had comments about my body. So coming into the running community, it wasn't like a shock. Like I wasn't always like, oh my gosh, like my feelings are hurt or like I wasn't always offended. But I do try to understand that if I said that I was a professional

basketball player, for example. People like, wow, you're kind of short for professional basketball player. You're five, six, you know. And so I get that. And I want to be gracious in that way. And so I've always tried, if people come up to my face and say stuff, I always try to turn the table and then see if actually the reason why they're saying it is because they're the ones that are so insecure. Right. And they have an issue with themselves. And, you know, I've shared this story, I think, in other podcasts, but there was a time I It was the year that I was trying to get smaller. I would wear these big long coats to cover my body. And anytime I go grocery shopping, I would layer up because I'm like, I don't want people

saying stuff. I just want to buy my groceries and get out of the freaking store. And so this one day, it was a really hot trail run, always kept a big jacket in the back of my car. And I was wearing, you know, short shorts and a tank top. And I was like, so hot. I want to put that jacket on. I was like, nope, putting it on.

And I opened the back door. I put the jacket on. I was like, you know what? This is stupid. like this literally controls me like I can't just like go in the grocery store and just be me and without you know having to wear the jacket and I was

starting to make these decisions like no like I need to embrace who I am so I throw the jacket back in the car I kid you not I'm not even in the store for 60 seconds and I it happens so much I can kind of pick up when someone's watching me or following me and sure enough I see this girl staring at me so I'm like I'm going to go

in the next aisle so I go in the aisle she follows me into the next aisle I'm like, okay, here we go. So I'm pretending to look at something that I'm not even going to buy. And she's like, excuse me, what do you do for your legs? Because your legs are really big. They're really muscular. And I was like, oh, I run.

She's like, really? Well, then it comes out. We start having this conversation. And this woman is beautiful. I mean, it looks like she works out. She's trained. She's very fit. She's healthy.

But then she starts to tell me how unhappy she is. You know, I've tried so long to get legs like yours. And I can't. I've worked with my trainer for two years. and I can't get legs like that. And it just, it's so frustrating. We ended up having this longing or action in the grocery store. And when I walked away, I thought, you know,

if I can think about my body as a way to connect with people and encourage other people and not so much about how offended I am or I can't believe that you don't accept me or that you don't like me or that I'm not looking the way that you want me to be, I think I can be in a much better place. I think that that mindset is. probably the stronger mindset to have.

And I'll tell you what, it's, it's helped me a lot. When I won Mozart 100, that's on the Ultra Chalk World Tour when it was around, I was in Austria, I get literally off the podium. And this girl and her friend come up to me and she's like, see, I told you she's big like me. Can I have a picture with you? It's just like, I just got done winning this race. But I remember thinking of my mind, this girl was so excited to meet me because she felt like, here's someone that I can identify with.

Like here's someone that just won a race and she's big like I am. She was like four inches taller than me. But I thought, you know, that's awesome. I can stop thinking about how to make myself feel better and realize that there's nothing wrong with this body. This body is actually going to encourage other people to be okay with who they are. And if you love something, go after it. You don't have to worry about what you look like.

Just do it. So, yeah, right now, if people make it. comments or criticisms or have, you know, odd questions for me, I'm like, bring it on. I'll take all of it. Because if I can like spin it around to a point of love or understanding or even to encourage them, I'd say half the time when it's cruel, when it's something cruel, those people usually have really deep issues within themselves that they're insecure about. And it's way easier to criticize someone, right?

I mean, your social media following is like a hundred times more than mine. So I can't even imagine the comments that you get and realizing that you have to come to a point, right, where you're like, I'm either going to accept all of them or I'm not going to accept any of them. And I'm going to be the ruler of what I let penetrate my heart. Well, it's funny with the whole like wanting to active will lose muscle. Now, I'm by no means a professional athlete. I'm not. I don't know, Nick, you are in your own category, man.

You are super human. Well, thank you. The stuff you've done. When I first started running, you know, I started like my fitness passion with bodybuilding and strength training. The goal was to get as big as possible. I just wanted to lift weights and eat food. And then when I started running, obviously my first marathon was 357.

my second marathon was 415. It was worse. And then, you know, I did an Iron Man. I decided I wanted to run a sub three hour marathon. And I went for the sub three. I missed it. I had 324. So I put this goal out into existence. And the world, by following, they knew that I wanted to achieve this goal. And all the comments were, like, you're too big. He's too big. He's too big to be a runner. It doesn't look like a runner.

When was this? This is probably 2000 in 20, 2021. Really? Yeah. This is recent. It was recent. This is powerful. It started like it stung me a lot because it's people telling me you don't look like someone who can achieve this goal.

And, you know, I would work with Jordan and Yoli and we get photos of a run or a workout. And I'd say, no, we can't post those photos. We look too big. Like the running community is going to hate us. I feel that. So we wouldn't post these photos. And I remember sitting in my office this one night. And I hopped on a call with this guy and I said, what do I have to do to burn up my muscle?

What can I do to lose my muscle? I love this. I love for having this conversation. It's like when you're telling me a story, I've been there. I know exactly. And he's telling me like how to do these workouts and like restrict calories and protein. That's the worst. And they're like, you can't eat this much?

And I'm like, dude, I don't even count. calories. Like what? Exactly. And I'm like, this is stupid. I'm not, I'm not doing this. Now, in order for me to run a lot of those marathons, I restricted, I didn't stop. I minimized weight training. It wasn't the priority of focus for my training. And I didn't want these big strength training workouts to affect my running workouts. Well, you had a running goal. I had a running goal. Not a size goal. But strength was like a supplement to my training, you know, for that goal.

And I finally just got to a point where I was like, this is, this is my body. Like, this is what I was born with. Yes. I can't help that like I'm putting size and muscle on through strength training. Like genetically, this is what my body wants to do. Yes. So, you know, we're in this new series right now called the hybrid build. Which I've loved.

I've watched every episode. Well, thank you. Yeah. No, it's so fun. to watch it because I'm like, yes, it's my people. We're like, this, this has to be like this challenger disruptor series to us. Because

while everyone's saying you can't get bigger, you can't put on size and strength ball running, okay, well, we're going to prove that wrong. And now I'm talking to Yoli and Jordan, like, make me look as big as possible. Get all the angles. Get every angle. Get all the angles.

Let's shoot at night when it's like top down lighting. Because for the longest time I was I was shaping the way I looked to appease people who don't know me or care about me

Exactly Right and that's like Such a shallow spot So there's so many people listening That are going to relate to that And not even in the sports world I mean just across the board How often are we tied to the way we look

And whether it's our hair, our skin, boobs, but, like, whatever it is, we really believe that the way that we look is the best thing about us. And that can be really disappointing when you realize that is not the best thing about you. It's who you are uniquely. How do you make other people feel when you're in their presence? What do you do for others? Like, the passions and the goals and the dreams and the things that you just naturally love and gravitate towards. I mean, there's so many little pieces that make you so uniquely you.

But the physical side of who you are is absolutely wonderful too, because it's so unique. I mean, every single tiny inch from our fingerprints to the number of hairs on our head, our eye color. I mean, the way that you walk, I mean,

tell me that when Steph is half mile away, that you wouldn't be able to pick her out from 20, 20 other women, You know your wife, by the way, that she walks and that, and that's beautiful, you know? And I think that we tend to focus so much on certain physical attributes about people and we obsess over them and we think that's what makes that person valuable. Or this is the trait that is going to give you permission to do what you love. And I love that you're disrupting that. Let's disrupt that.

You do not need to focus so much on what you look like in order to do what you love. just do it. Let's talk about what we're doing and not what we look like. Training for me is a, it's a feeling. I love to train not necessarily for like the way it makes me look or the way it makes me feel. Like there is such a, like I am addicted to training. I will say that right now. I love training too. You know, there's a, I was talking about earlier how.

It's your meditation. It is my meditation. It is. but I get like these dopamine dump from training. And you tow the line for a race. And there's this dopamine dump and adrenaline unlike anything else. And, you know, I go into a strength training workout and go for a big lift. And it's meditative because at that moment in time for that like five second lift, nothing else matters.

Yes. Except for like that barbell and that weight. and it's an escape and I love the way it makes me feel and that's what I'm addicted to. It's the pump. It is. It's like it's the

exhaustion, the sweat, like the way your mind kind of just evaporates. Well, you know, I think that's really interesting because I'm sure you've been called very creative before. Yes. You're a very creative mind. I think the creative minds,

they don't necessarily sleep. And I'm not talking even like in the physical sense. Like I know you go to sleep at night. But there's something so amazing about a cremate. It's like you're all you can always, there's always a new idea or something you want to do or something you can make better or it's a great strength. But when you lift, it's just that. It's like this single one thing you're doing. And it's so simple.

And it also makes you feel every physical part of who you are. But you also have to go into that with a. like mental focus of I am going to lift what is heavy. And I don't know about you. Like I will go, I train in a public gym in LA Fitness. There have been several times because I've been training in gym since I was a young teenage girl where people have literally tapped me on the shoulder or stopped me and been like, dude, what are you training for?

Because for me when I lift, it is, it's like a rhythm and a dance and I can get so into it. Like, I don't see or hear anyone around me. And I love like Metcon style. Like, I don't like a lot of rest. You and I both are in the Playbook app. Yeah. And there have been a few times where I've, like, screwed up on like, okay, in between this exercise, take 30 seconds rest.

Like, you kind of have to like program the rest for each one. I remember getting called out by someone that was in the app that was like, you know, this exercise you said it was 30 seconds rest. And the next one we were supposed to do 40 seconds rest. Like, what is it? It's so frustrating. I was like, dude, I'm so sorry. But in my mind, I'm like,

dude, I'm just like get it done. Like go, go, go, go. Like I never look at, okay, that's exactly 30 seconds and then go. Like I'll get into these rhythms where I'm just like next exercise, go, go, go. And what I'm thinking of is like, that's how you get up the mountain. Like there is no rest. Like there is no like get up the first half mile of the mountain. Then I'm going to take a break on a rock and then like, okay, I'm going to try to get up more.

Like when I go in and train, it's like I want to be strong to get up that mountain. But because I started lifting when I was so. young. It was like some of literally the worst times in my life. And I would go typically late at night. And it would just be all men. Like I'd go in the weight room. I didn't know even like what I was doing. I'd literally like watch what the guys were doing. That's how I learned. I just, okay, they're doing like these bicep curls. And, and I was really small. My first couple years in high school, like I started as a freshman. I was 85 pounds, four foot nine. Like I grew really late. Like I didn't start growing until I was a junior.

So I think for me it was kind of like it was like an escape, but it was always quiet and it was just so simple. It was like my mind just had to focus on like pick up the weight, lift it. And then when you feel your body getting stronger, I mean, that's the best. Like I just went up and wait for my bicep curl and I was like, dude, yeah, I used to only be able to do 25s. Like I can do 30, sometimes 32. Like that's just like so exciting when you feel yourself getting stronger. But it's the most basic thing. Like it's like the basic thing, right?

I think about it all the time where it's like, who thought of let's just pick up this like heavy thing and oh, as I'm doing this, it's actually building my muscles. Who first thought that? Because like you don't build the muscle right away, right? Like you have to go and pick up this heavy thing over and over again for weeks and months and then finally realize, oh, this actually does something. But for me, like my brain is always on, right? Like, I am creative. And I have a really hard time shutting it off. I do.

Even when I'm home, like me and Steph will be having a conversation and I can't help it. But I'm thinking about like, I'm solving a problem in my head. Do you like glaze over and she knows that you're thinking? She's like, what did I just say to you? I'm like, you were talking about Charlie and breast milk. Eddie and I do this all the time. I think I said this last podcast that Eddie and Stephanie to meet. Yes.

I'm so similar. My brain is always on. Yeah. But training is actually the one like time in my day that I can actually turn it off. Mm-hmm. And distractions go away. My brain stops like going all over the place and firing. It is just focused on this one thing.

It's like early morning runs. I can focus on one topic. and really dive into it. In strength training, I can focus on one thing. And there's so much clarity in my thought. There's so much clarity during that time. And I thrive in that moment. And then as soon as I'm done,

and there's like endorphins and dopamine kind of disappear, it's back to... Yeah. And it's firing again. So I need those moments of training to really just hone in. Now it's amazing that there's a body. product result of building muscle and building endurance, that's just like the beauty in it. But let me ask you. Okay, I'm going to pause you right there because are you also the kind of

person because it's a really popular topic, especially in the last five, six years, meditation. So this idea of, and I have friends that will do this, you know, like I get up in the morning, I'll just sit for 30 minutes and I just think about this one thing. So they'll tell me, you know, They'll play a music in the background or, you know, they'll do like a very meditative yoga for 30 minutes. Now, both of those things sound like hell to me. Yeah, I can't do that. Like, how do you do that? Like yoga in all the years I've done it, I love hot yoga for how I feel after.

But I hate standing on one mat in the room and that's it. I'm in a room staying on a mat or this idea of just sit and just think about this one word and just met. I can't do that for the life of me. I don't even think that I was created to do that. Like my brain is not able to do that. But what is so interesting is that meditation is for however it is that you meditate, for those listening, I'm not bashing any of this because it is so good to be still. And it's something I've tried to work on my whole life.

But when you meditate, it's also like a form of rejuvenation. Like you feel like rejuvenated. You feel like, okay, I can kind of like breathe and like face the day. or I've like worked through this anxiety or this stress or this issue. That is exactly what running and lifting is to me. I can't tell you how many times I've finished a hundred mile race and three, four days later, I'm in the mountains. And people are like, dude, what are you doing in the mountains three, four hours running around?

I was like, there's no greater way for me to recover and feel rejuvenated than being by myself running through trees. I mean, that is like, that is my meditation. that is rest for me. That's not a workout. And lifting is the same way. You're right. It's like that one thing. You can focus on that one thing and then as soon as it's over. And I think also because, well, you know now you're a dad, as soon as I get home from a workout and it's been this way since my kids were little, it is like life just comes at me a hundred miles an hour. And it's like, husband needs this and the daughter needs this. My son needs this. And then it's all the surprises

for the day that I wasn't expecting. And so as the years have gone on, I'm like running and lifting, that's my Hawaiian vacation on the sand. Still meditation for me is more stressful because I sit there. I've tried it before. Like, all right, Nick, you need to think about nothing.

Think about nothing. Fuck, I'm thinking about everything. Shit, I can't meditate. I can't wait until this meditation's over. I'm failing this. How long I've been doing this? Oh my gosh. in 10 seconds.

This is wasting my time when I could be working on this thing. It's like, you know what? I'm getting, no, I'm done. I have failed. And then people are like, you haven't given it enough time. You haven't gone deep enough. It's not, not my brain. Yeah.

It just does not. But when I go run, I'm telling you, the best. And I don't go out trying to think of something, it finds me. Yep. Like the biggest issues in life will find me. And I've said this a million times before,

if I don't take care of it in my like time outside of running, it will find me in that next run and it will haunt me every run until I take care of it. So I think I need it for my sanity, but also I truly believe that this business has been built because of early morning runs. Like the things I have thought of on runs have sparked a lot of ideas and thoughts and processes and change.

Yeah, creativity in movement is so powerful. I mean, you hear this all the time, that just getting outside, getting that fresher, that oxygen, and even more so now than ever with our phones, social media, we're constantly getting hit with notifications. I mean, when you're running, you can't take care of any of that stuff. You have to focus on just that one thing that you're doing, that rhythm and that movement. I mean, it's yeah that running has meant different things to me at different seasons in my life like when I was playing college soccer I would I would go and run at midnight almost every single night

but it was it had nothing to do with fitness it was that was easier for me to think and process things than for me to go sit in my dorm room and try and think about it or I needed I needed movement I needed that quiet yeah

but now you start talking about this before is we pressed record and I'd love to hear it. You obviously have a lot going on. I mean, you just finished running 500 plus miles in 81 days. And you have kids and you have a husband and you know, businesses and projects and sponsorships. There's a lot. And I get this question a lot. So how do you balance this? And what I found very interesting since having our first child people were so curious. We were in Dallas this past weekend at HGB and Central Market

and there were a lot of families that showed up. A lot of people that follow the brand that have kids. And like the number one question they asked was how's dad life? Like how are you balancing training in the business and your relationship with Steph and now being a dad to Charlie? How do you balance it?

I'm like, it's really freaking hard. and good for you and like I'm not good for you for being honest yeah I've had this conversation with Steph a lot lately and she'll probably listen to this episode and we love you Steph yeah we love you Steph

yeah um you know like the business is growing which requires more time and we're putting some new systems in place and restructuring parts of the brand we just launched a new YouTube series We're training for some things. We just launched into retail, so that requires more time,

which means less time at home. And I know it's very taxing to Steph because we don't have family down here. So Steph is taking care of the house and Charlie, and she has a lot of responsibilities at home. And I feel like the pressure and guilt through that. And I would obviously love to spend more time with Steph and Charlie.

But it's, I think, very important to be pretty honest with yourself and self-aware. And I can say, like, and I tell staff this all the time, I know, like, unfortunately right now, there's things that I'm prioritizing that probably are out of alignment in order from what they really should be. But this is a sprint I'm going through that I'm trying to solve for in the future. and I know that through periods of life balance may not exist and sometimes priorities are not in the right alignment but I also believe that's okay for certain chapters and seasons to get to where you want to be and I at my core I believe a visionary it's like I have a vision for

not just myself in the business but like for my family and where I say see my relationship and, you know, my future with Charlie and our future kids. So the things I'm doing right now are to set up this vision that I have for for all of us in the future. I'm curious, like your take on all of this and what balance looks like for you or how you prioritize certain things, especially going into a big effort like, you know, the Choose Strong project. First, I'm so glad that you brought that up. It is and has been since I started ultra running. So even before I was a professional, I'd say in the top three questions that people ask me, how do you balance it? How do you do with kids? How do you do it, being married? And over the years, I have taken it more seriously. You know,

my interactions with people, I do like to be honest, but I always, always go back to grace. I think it's so important that when you are embarking, especially when you have great intentions. So you're wanting to move forward because you want to provide for your family. There is this dream that you've been working on for so long and it's like coming to fruition and it's like bigger than you ever thought it would you could ever dream it to be. And it's amazing and you're seeing how it's impacting communities. I mean, BPN impacts people. It's not just supplements, right?

and you see how many lives are being changed. Like there is a very obvious purpose and what you're doing. And I love that you point out being a visionary on top of that because I don't think everyone is a visionary. I don't think everyone even is, sometimes it's a lot harder for people to see the big picture. And I think that the way, the perspectives that all people have, I mean, we can all work together in that.

if you think of like a business being a tree, not everyone can be the tree trunk. Not everyone can be the branch or the leaves. Like we need all those parts for a tree. And I think that in a role that you're in being the visionary, you can see that big picture. You can be like, I just need to do this to get here. You have to trust and you need to stay with me. It's going to get messy. We're going to go through storms.

It's going to be imperfect because here's the most important part. Every person is imperfect. And I think that, and especially for moms, there's this mom guilt. I think when we become new parents and now you as a dad and you want to be a great dad, it's easy to fill that guilt too. I don't even know the right way to do this or where to set my priorities or where that balances. There's no such thing as perfect balance because we are not perfect people. And I know when I first started in my career, my kids were one in three.

and man, I got a lot of criticism. I mean, from people that I didn't think I would, or you just kind of notice, oh, wow, she's completely stopped talking to me. Like, I'm not invited to anything anymore. And it's just like, well, we moms don't agree with what you're doing. I remember a very distinct conversation. Actually, this one hurt me pretty bad.

It was the year before I got signed and I was training so hard. I really wanted to be signed with a brand. And I had been talking to a few different brands before Nike. And I ran into an old friend on the trails. And I was doing like this out and back. So it was like on the turnaround. I was like, oh, hey, what's up? We're chatting for a while.

And I've friends with his wife. And so we're chatting. And then he says, oh, man, it's so cool. You're doing all these races. Like, tell my wife all the time. Like, it's so amazing, like what you're doing, that your body can do that. And you have two little kids. And I was like, yeah, dude, how are, you know, how are your kids?

He's like, you know, we got four kids. And yeah, you know, she says all the. the time, like, how can you actually be a good mom and still do these races? But, you know, obviously you figured it out. I'm like, okay, cool, bro. And like, I didn't say much more after that. And I left, but I remember being so hurt by that because that's what I felt like. I felt like, you know, it's, you can't do both because people around you say you can't. But a lot of times the expectations and the fears and the wonders and the questioning that people have are because they struggle with it so much.

So you have the people that are honestly like, Nick, can you give us an answer? And others that are like, I screwed up so bad, I don't know what you're doing because if I couldn't do it, then you shouldn't be able to either. And the bigger your platform, the greater your responsibility.

And so when you put yourself out there and you're just being honest and totally raw with like, hey, becoming a new parent, super hard, especially when you're running a massive business and doing 14 other things, yeah, you're right. That is so hard. Are you going to get it perfectly? No, but you know what? Tell me a person who has. Tell me someone who has gone off on their journey and figured it out perfectly. Well, you're not supposed to. And what I learned when I got signed, you know, Eddie and I, we had a lot of really rough seasons in our marriage.

We've been married for 20 years. We've been together since we're 18. And our seasons were at the roughest when we weren't communicating. Communication is so key in everything you do. And when you become a person, parent and there's one parent that's pushing hard, charging hard, going after a dream, they're working a lot. The communication is what keeps you linked together. And guess what? No one else isn't allowed in that circle of communication because the way that you do your family is unique to you. Because no one else got to have Charlie except you and Steph. Charlie was given to you guys specifically. You get to be her dad, Steph gets to be her mom, and all three of you together are so unique in your needs and your desires and what is planned

for your life, that it's almost impossible for anybody to go and assimilate your life or for you to try to assimilate your life like someone else's. And there was a time when Isaiah, I remember it so distinctly because Isaiah was crawling up onto my stomach. He was 10 months old and McKenzie was two. They're pretty close in age. And he's crawling up on me. and I was trying to do research for something

is when I run in my fitness business. And I was like getting so frustrated because like Eddie was working long hours at this time. He's working like 60 hours a week. And I just felt like, okay, I got like these two babies. I'm trying to run a business. I'm also trying to like run.

Like I'm trying to make it into this pro career. And I got so frustrated. And I realized the greatest frustration I had in that moment. It's so sad because my cute little doughy Isaiah is on me just wants to slobber kiss me. But I just remember being frustrated, not having these moments to study and do what it was that I wanted to do. And I realized so much came from that and me trying to be perfect.

Like I wanted my house to always be clean and the laundry to be done. And I wanted to know exactly what I was making for dinner every night and the fridge to be full and the floors to be clean. And I wanted my kids to be perfect. And then I realized, I'm like, that is just not possible. And what if I just be the best mom that I can be while still doing all this stuff? And so I just started to carve out away. I started to allow myself, yeah, I'm going to screw up a lot.

And that's okay. I'm just going to keep on working. I'll probably screw up. I mean, I did miss soccer games. I did miss McKenzie's dance practice sometimes. Like I did miss open houses. But then there's also seasons where I was the teacher's helper and I was going on field trips and realizing that I look back and the most consistent thing that I've ever wanted for my children,

my husband to know is that I love them. And the only way I can do that is by communicating that to them. In the way that works with our family, that's how we exist. And so, you know, I understand that for McKenzie, she needs one way of showing love. Isaiah needs something else. Isaiah and then Eddie needs another way. But I can't look to other families and expect for to, for myself to assimilate the way that they do life. And I think giving yourself grace along the way saying, yeah, I'm not perfect. I'm never going to think that I am perfect. But I know what I'm supposed to do. I know the purpose and who I am. And I'm going to do the best with that. But becoming a parent is one of the most humbling seasons in life. I have never felt so inadequate and lost that it was becoming.

becoming a parent. Yeah, our chief revenue officer, Kat Thomas, she uses this quote or this phrase, block and tackle. And, you know, in an ideal world in life, we have things planned and structured and we have this routine and like the laundry's done, meals have prepped, all this stuff. And that's, that works for chapters and seasons. I've had a lot of those. Yeah. But then you get thrown this new life, you get a new job, you have a baby, you know, there's a tragedy in your family and you're blocking and tackling. And it's okay to get to that point. I used to, I used to think that like if you got to that point, you were failing because you didn't properly plan.

And you can plan for everything, but you're still going to get hit with something new that you've never experienced before. and when Charlie was born, it was a lot of blocking and tackling. We're like, okay, what's coming at me today? I'm going to block this one. I'm going to tackle that one. I'm going to block this one. I'm going to tackle that one.

And like you're kind of just, you're fighting through the day. You're fighting through the week and the month. And that's okay. Like you're going to get there. But like you'll eventually climb out of that and you'll have structure and routine and planning again. But at first like four to six weeks with a new baby,

I was like block tackle block tackle I'm like Steph I did not see this coming and it was very overwhelming you know but so hard a lot of things in life will provide that opportunity to block and tackle but that's when you got to be strong you just step up and it's like all right it's coming at me I'm coming right at it we'll get through this let's go through this mud to get through the other side but it's okay to go through that phase in that chapter of blocking and tackling because that's part of life it's not perfect

it's not meant to be perfect if you try to make it perfect you're probably not living a great life you know and that was hard for me to accept and adjust to for a long period of time but it's just the reality of It's crazy. And I think it's also really beautiful

because when you have children, you are getting like the most pure raw look of just humanity. You know, people in their great need, right? Like Charlie needs you. She needs someone to look after her every second of every day, like to keep her alive, to make sure she's safe,

to make sure she's fed, you know, changing her diapers. I mean, you are literally walking, through every step of her life. I used to tell young moms, you know, one of the greatest gifts that you will get as a new parent is the fact that your children will not remember the first two years of their life.

I think that all the time. I think that all the time. It is a grace and a mercy and you just need to embrace it for all those moments that you just, and I'm sure Steph has these moments. I mean, you get it postpartum anyway, but of just what am I doing,

I don't know what I'm doing, I'm so tired. Remember, sweet little Charlie is not going to recall any of that. You know, the first couple years of her life is the time that you get to be acquainted with becoming parents and what that looks like. But I think when we can just let go of, yeah, this isn't going to be perfect. This is going to be hard. And Eddie and I, you know, because we've been together for so long, pre-kids, you're so used to communicating in a certain way and doing things a certain way because it is just the two

of you. And it's, it's even though you're married, it's very easy to still even have long stretches of being selfish. I don't think I realized how selfish I was until I had McKenzie. I've said the same thing. The last four months, I am mind blown by how selfish I used to be able to be with my time. That's been my biggest realization. Yeah. It's, it is very, it's very eye-opening. And like I said, I'm not short on pride. And so it's been very humbling, too, because I'm realizing that I'm not dealing with like a piece of plater

that I can just quickly turn into the shape that I want it to be. I'm dealing with a human that is their own person in their own unique way. Like my kids' personalities and, like, who they are and what they're drawn to and the things that offend them or make them sad or excited, all those things. They're so unique to them. and it is not, it's not my job to force them to be a certain way, but it is my job to love them and guide them and care for them and know, let them know that I'm there to support them.

I mean, a lot of times I've taken a back seat to just life happening, you know, as they're going through life and just like, I'm here for you. But when the kids were little and when I was first signed with Nike, Eddie and I had this really powerful conversation and I said to him, if I'm going to make it in this sport, you have to let me say yes. You have to let me say yes

to all the things that I know I'm going to be asked to do. But that wasn't an easy conversation because essentially for me, one of the most difficult things for me to do is say, I need you and I need you to know that I can't do this by myself. I need to know that you support me and I'm going to need to need.

help with the kids. So can we do this? And he was like, yeah, say yes. And those first two years of Nike, I can't even tell you the number of speaking events, photo shoots, the amount of traveling that I did. And then, of course, I was like training and racing and I had to really like even up my game more. I felt like I had all this, you know, this pressure now that I was a Nike athlete. I mean, I was gone a lot. And we had some really hard seasons. But the thing that saved us was communication. So it wasn't, this is just what I'm doing and this is how it is. It was like, we'd have to revisit over and over and over again. And it wasn't, hey, I really want our marriage to look like so and so. And we have some super close college buddies. And, you know,

I would have to explain to him like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not a stay-at-home mom. Like I, that is just like, and the good thing about that, about me saying that to him was his response was, I know, like, I know, I know who you are. And we got, you know, I got some criticism, of course, because my kids were so little. Oh my gosh, like her kids must, you know, must not be loved and she's not home very often. And, and sometimes Eddie would kind of get nudged by people in the community. And Eddie just shut down this one woman sometimes. And she's like, oh, I just feel so sorry for you, Eddie. And he's like, I know who I married. And I thought, wow, like, he really, he sees me. He sees what I'm trying to do. He sees where my heart is. And I have a partner in this. And it looks

messy from the outside. But when it came down to it, my kids are wonderfully loved. We have a ton of incredible memories. It hasn't always been perfect. But I am proud of the mom that I am. And I am proud to show my kids what a real marriage looks like, a couple that supports each other through the times that are really hard and the times that are great. Eddie has since left his job. We actually work together now. It's been amazing the journey that we have been on. But we kick up our feet sometimes together or a cup of coffee and I'm like, can you believe all the shit that we've been through? Can you believe all the growing that we have had to do and the places we've gone

and all the changes, the transitions and the storms that we've walked through, you know what, that's actually a real life. You know, because you can have just as much stress being two stay-at-home parents than parents that have careers outside of the home because we never know what life is going to throw at us. And when you throw kids in that,

you don't know what's going to go on with your kids. I mean, I've never think that these are the kids that would be mine. and I were soccer players in college, that for sure our kids would be soccer players, that they'd look a certain way and that they'd have, be excited about certain things.

And they're pretty opposite in a lot of ways that we thought they would be. And it's a great reminder of, yeah, and that's exactly how life is. So I would say communication is the greatest key. Letting, you know, even in your communication and stuff, it's like, I need you. And this is going to be like really messy,

but that's what life is. And you want someone to get down in the dirt with you and like soldier through, right? And you have this sweet little baby girl, Charlie. Oh my gosh, she's so cute. She's doing great. Of course she is. All she knows is love, right?

Like at this point, she's just the most love baby girl. She's not going to remember all the craziness that you're going through these next couple years. She's sleeping. She'll be eating. Then she'll be running. Yeah. Then she'll be strength training and then she'll be the next hybrid athlete, ultra runner, Sally McRae.

Baby there. Well, Sally, it's been absolutely amazing to watch you crush this project. You know, 500 plus miles, 81 days having Tyler and Drew out there documented journey with you. You have hired some incredible people. We got a good team. I have to say, I don't know how you're able to pick so many amazing well-round. I mean, good people. Those boys are like family now.

I tell them all the time. Anytime you need to get away and come to the beach, like the McCray family's doors are wide open. You are family. Maybe we'll put another HQ out there. We'll put a remote office. That would be awesome. And we'll do some cool things.

But I appreciate you making a trip out here. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate you being a part of this team and really representing the brand and mission how we envisioned it would be represented. presented to thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your support. It's it's been mind-blowing, honestly. For how long I've been a pro athlete, you guys have shined so bright, and I feel the support from you guys every day. And I thank you for your hard work and all that you built.

Thank you. Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, Sally McRae. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Bear Performance Podcast. Please leave a rating and review on the platform you are listening to if you enjoyed it. It helps us to grow and reach more people with the intent of changing lives through the Go One More mindset. If you are ready to take your health and performance to the next level, head over to BPNSups.com to take the first step.