The One You Feed - Alex Cornell

Episode Date: January 21, 2015

This week we talk to Alex Cornell about overcoming creative blocks.Alex Cornell is an interface designer, filmmaker, and periodic musician. He lives in San Francisco and is currently working at Moonbase. He released a book in 2012 called Breakthrough that is a collection of ideas on how to break through creative block.  He cofounded Firespotter Labs. and one of his creative projects was featured on the front page of the Wall Street journal. In This Interview Alex and I Discuss...The One You Feed parable.Using comparison as a tool."Getting burnt by other people's work".How his moods are highly correlated to his creative output.Creating instead of consuming.The importance of recharging and taking breaks during the day.Finding multiple outlets for creativity.How to remain motivated over time.Tying your work into a larger purpose.Finding meaning and value in your life where you are.Using other artists "spell books"A lot of the creative process is not visible to the naked eye.There are no easy fixes for creative blocks.Alex Cornell LinksAlex Cornell HomepageAlex Cornell on TwitterAlex Cornell on FacebookAlex Cornell on YouTube Some of our most popular interviews that you might also enjoy:Dan HarrisTodd Henry- author of Die EmptyRandy Scott HydeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Little tiny amounts of jealousy can be okay. You know, jealousy is kind of a bad word, but I think like seeing other people do really good work and feeling inspired by that, you know, you can use certain parts of that as a motivator. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have.

Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction. How they feed their good wolf.

I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor? What's in the museum of failure? And does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallynoreally.com.

And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really No Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Our guest today is Alex Cornell, an interface designer, filmmaker, and periodic musician. Alex lives in San Francisco and is currently working at Moonbase. He released a book in 2012 called Breakthrough that is a collection of ideas on how to break through creative blocks. He also co-founded Firespotter Labs, and one of

his creative projects was a feature on the front page of the Wall Street Journal. Here's the interview. Hi, Alex. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, I'm glad to get you on. You published a book that has a lot of really interesting ideas about ways to get through creative blocks. So I thought that would be an interesting topic to cover on the show here. But we'll start, as we always do, with the parable. There is a grandfather who's which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops for a second and he thinks about it and he says, well, grandfather,

which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you how that parable applies to you in your life and in the work that you do. Certainly. Well, you know, I think it's definitely something that I can relate to. I hadn't heard it before, but it definitely struck a chord. You know, I think the struggle to stay motivated and feel fulfilled by my work, it's definitely something I think about a lot. And, you know, over the years, I've noticed the good wolf, I guess, as the parable says, The good wolf, I guess, as the parable says, stays fed when my creativity is fueled from myself intrinsically. So I guess to the extent that that's possible, I try to make sure that with every project, the reasons for me doing it are coming from within as opposed to, say, external motivator. And for me, it's kind of a sliding scale. I think there may be lots of little wolves that take snacks here and there and that maybe not just to, but, um, you know, I think like, for example,

for in some ways, I think little tiny amounts of jealousy can be okay. You know, jealousy is kind of a bad word, but I think like seeing other people do really good work and feeling inspired by that and motivate, you know, you can use certain parts of that as a motivator if, uh, if you kind of have the right perspective of it. But yeah, no, it's definitely, I mean, I feel it every day when I'm working. I can feel kind of a little bit of a struggle there. Yeah, I've heard the term benign comparison used for that sort of comparison that is positive. Yeah, definitely.

that is positive. Yeah, definitely. And I, you know, I think I have always tried to kind of, I guess I always say get burnt by other people's work. You know, you're, when you see somebody that just does something awesome, it's, it's kind of a good feeling. Cause you just think like, man, okay, I got to up my game. And I like that feeling, you know, and I, if I haven't felt it for a while, I'll try to seek it out. You know, I'll go on Vimeo or I'll go and dribble and just see what people are up to. And it doesn't take long for me to see something awesome usually and feel like it's time to step it up. Yeah. There's no shortage of amazing work being done out there. So one of the things that you have said, Alex, and it was, it was kind of back to what you were just talking about, which is that you said, my moods have always been heavily correlated with my creative output. If I'm producing a lot, I'm usually pretty happy and psyched. And if I'm going through a period where I'm consuming more than I'm producing, there's a general malaise. And I really like that idea of consuming more than I'm producing. And I think that's a really easy thing to get into in this world. So what are, how are some of the ways that you keep yourself

focused on creating versus consuming? Because consuming is certainly easier. Yeah. And it's only gotten easier to, you know, over the years, you know, we, I think I consume more in smaller amounts at a time than I, than before where it used to be like, I don't know, maybe like five years ago I would consume, like say take in, you know, I don't know, maybe like five years ago, I would consume, like say, take in, you know, I'd find an artist through a blog or something and I'd look through their portfolio. And that would be, I would consider that kind of like a large amount of consumption in a, in like a, the unit of measurement would be pretty big. Now it's like with Twitter and everything, everything's so small, but the, the amount is, is way more in terms in like a, in aggregate. And it's hard to, since the little units are so small, it's,

it's so easy to take it in and it's hard then to sometimes to focus. And you hear this all the time with people saying, uh, you know, social media and all this stuff has made it a little bit harder to stay on task. And so for me, I think I try to maintain like a pretty small quota for what it takes for me to get excited to get to work. So, you know, rather than that have to take like an hour or two to kind of get revved up, you know, if I try to make it so if even if it's just one little tiny thing, like it could be as simple as seeing a cool typeface, like the letter A and you're like, wow, that's a like the letter A and you're like, wow, that's a really great letter A. I'm like, I'm ready to go. You know, it's like a very small

amount that makes me excited to get to work. And I think I've kind of trained myself into that. And then, you know, I'm very conscious through the day as I work, how effective I'm being. So, you know, if it's 1130 and I've been working for four hours and I'm starting to feel a little bit lethargic or something, I'll just I'll pull the plug early and, you know, take an hour off and go read or go eat, go for a walk and then get back to it. And I, you know, I try to be very sensitive to how I guess kind of like what operational efficiency my mind is working at all the time. And, you know, you don't want it to be distracting, but I think it is important. It's really important. I've noticed for me not to force it, you know, if I'm not feeling into it, definitely not to force it. And, you know, I guess like that, like I said, it's all in service of kind of my general mood. You know, I want to stay up and stay excited about what I'm doing. Now, you do a lot of different things creatively. You do some film,

you do some design, you do a lot of music. Can you kind of talk about the different things that you're doing creatively and how you, how those tie together for you? Sure. Um, and I, you know, I think having those different, um, mediums to work in is, is really helpful. And if I do get stuck in one, say if I'm working on a video or something and it gets kind of frustrating, I can very easily shift to music, uh, or to design and not really feel, not feel stuck there. And it's, you know, it's, you're still exercising to create a muscle, but you can kind of, I guess, maintain forward progress overall. And that, you know, makes, makes those little ruts not really feel like ruts because by the time I come back to whatever it was that I

was stuck on, I've, you know, been doing something completely different. And, you know, I guess I feel a little bit more, um, you know, flexible in that way. And that's a great feeling. If I only, if, you know, I feel like if I only had one avenue to go down all the time, when I would get stuck, that would be a lot more debilitating. And as it is, if I noticed it, if I feel it coming and it's like, all right, you know, I'm going to go take a piano break or something. Uh, and I think I've had, I've had like a maybe decade long music, music rut. And when it comes to writing, because that's just so much more exhausting. And so recently it's been, I recently started a video production company. And so most of what I do now

is video work, which the reason I like it is because it incorporates design and, you know, imaging and music and kind of all the things put together in one super medium. Yeah. Well, one of the things, and we'll talk more about your book Breakthrough in a little bit, but that was one of the things that seemed to come up a lot in that book. And in a lot of things I've read about being more creative is really changing your, changing the station to some degree, which is kind of what you're describing there. If you're, if you're stuck, go read or go listen to music or go play music or, or just find a different way to engage. And it sounds like you've kind of got that built into what you do.

Totally. And I, you know, and I do think it's, it's definitely a consistent thread when you talk to people and when you read the book. And I think that's because it's one of the few things consistently that, that most people have found to work pretty well. And, you know, at its core element, it's, it's really simple, you know, just get out of your desk and go do something else. I think, uh, what I like about having different, uh, creative mediums to explore is that you feel, like I said, that you're still kind of, if you think of your, your work overall, you're still making progress maybe in a different facet but that feeling of of progress is good and even if it's as simple as like you know learning a new scale or something it it still has the same effect i think in terms of moving the needle in your own personal

development and uh i you know i've recently found that learning things uh like actively saying okay what would be most helpful on this project that I don't know how to do? What should I learn? And that that's recently become a pretty fun way for me to take a step back. Like at least in video work, it's very easy to say, you know what, I'm going to learn a little part of 3d or I'm going to learn this new plugin or whatever it happens to be. And that I like that because it's a little bit more passive. So if you're feeling a little bit lazy, that can be a good way to still feel like you're moving forward without actually doing anything. Right.

I think that although that can become at least for a lot of people I know a real trap where you're always learning but never really produce. And it gets back to that consumption, monitoring your consumption versus your creation. One of the things that is interesting, and you alluded to it a little bit in the emails where we talked back and forth, was about it's one thing when you are motivated but feeling stuck creatively. But what about remaining motivated over time? what about remaining motivated over time? Yeah. Uh, you know, this is something I think that I've, I've found, uh, to be an important thing to consider more, especially now that I, I work for myself. I have my own company because I'm kind of responsible for maintaining the, the fire as it were of the company to, to stay going. You know, there's no, there's no kind of corporate structure there that's, or, or VC money that's saying like, you guys got to keep moving. And like this,

all this external factors, like it all kind of has to come from within, which is a different challenge for me, you know, coming from working for companies where all of that sort of provided for you, you know, you've got your task or coming down the pipe and you're kind of always, you always know what you're supposed to be doing and you feel like you, the pipe and you're kind of always, you always know what you're supposed to be doing and you feel like you, you know why you're supposed to be doing it. And so I think about it a lot now and it's definitely, uh, I will say something, I would say something that's still kind of in, or I guess in repair, you know, in terms of figuring it out and, uh, figuring out a way to articulate it best, I guess, for other people. But I think that,

you know, I come from my original place of, I guess, creative work comes from being a musician where the goal is always kind of to see your work get consumed by a lot of people and for a lot of people to hear your music. You know, musicians typically have a very straightforward goal. And that was my goal, too. And I've kind of carried that through with a lot of people to hear your music. You know, musicians typically have a very straightforward goal, and that was my goal too. And I've kind of carried that through with a lot of the work that I do, whether it's design or film. It's like, you know, the goal is audience, and the goal is building that audience.

And that's a very simple and elemental way to approach things and stay motivated too when I think about, like, what I'm trying to do. And I've found that to be more motivating than like, say, you know, I really want to get this next job for the extra money it will provide or whatever it happens to be. It's just, it's harder for me to get amped about that kind of thing. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast,

our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth.

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It's called Really No Really and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. One of the things you talked a little bit about finding the work that you're doing and finding ways to tie it into a larger vision and a larger purpose. It can be easy to see a project or, you know, a piece that you're working on is just kind of like this small thing that has, you know, effects only so far as the people that see it, or maybe not that many people see it, whatever it happens to be. And if you don't feel like you're kind of always building on something bigger,

you know, then those small projects and those small things don't really feel as, as exciting. And so I think it's, it's always been really cool, I think, to think of each piece as just a block on, you know, and building towards something. Even if it's a small thing, you're always kind of, like I say, moving the needle. Yeah. I'm always interested in, there's, there's this idea of meaning and purpose in work, which I think for in some situations is very straightforward. For example, if your job is providing water to people who would go thirsty, otherwise, there's a there's a real inbuilt meaning in that. I find that for a lot, a lot of people, that's not the case. And I think

there's a struggle that says, okay, I've got a job and maybe it's, it's doing things similar to what you're talking about. It's, it's creative. I'm creating things. And yet maybe some of the things that I'm creating don't have an inherent meaning to me personally. If you've got clients, for example, they don't have an inherent meaning to me personally. If you've got clients, for example, they don't have an inherent meaning to me personally. Um, but I'm, I'm always interested in how people find ways to drive meaning out of that sort of thing. Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a, it's a really interesting thing that you bring up and I think it's, it's a, it's actually kind of, it can be kind of a troubling place if you're, for your mind, if you start thinking about it too much, like, so for example, if you, if I think about, you know, say some project I do for a company that say theoretically makes, uh, uh, something like CD packaging,

you know, something that's not necessarily saving the world, but you know, they, they need a video and I'm going to make it for them. And it can, if you start thinking about like, what is really the value of this video to, uh, the client to me and then to the world at large. And you can, if you start thinking about it too much, you can get kind of like, uh, I don't know, it can feel a little bit depressing. And I think the reason for that is if you're comparing yourself, say to, to, you know, like an aid worker or something where the value is so obvious and so immediately necessary for whoever they're working for, that can be kind of a hard comparison to make. But I really do. I really feel like every person, you know, has something that they're good at or something that they are kind of most effective at. And for me, you know, that happens to be creative pursuits these days, specifically video. I feel like that's where I'm operating at, like my most effective. If I were to sit, you know, pack up and

join the Peace Corps, you know, unfortunately, I don't think I'd actually be that good at that. You know, like the people over there, they probably wouldn't want me to be doing that because that is just not really what I feel built for. And so I think like, you know, as a society, it's important that, you know, we work in these places that where we feel like, you know, we really get the most, uh, out of it, you know, and I w I was listening to this cool podcast the other day about, uh, um, I guess a helicopter medic and like listening to this guy talk was so awesome and inspiring. And I was like, man, this guy is really cool. And I'm so happy that people like this exist because the types of things he was encountering, I was like, I would, I'd probably faint, you know,

like I'm already on the ground. And, uh, but it's, you know, I just think it's amazing that there, that we have such disparate skill sets and, you know, and he feels as excited about what he does as I do about what I do. And yeah, so I think about it a lot. Like I said, it can be a little bit scary if you think about it too much, but I think it is, it's an important thing to think about as a creative person, I think. Yeah. I, I think about it a lot too. I mean, I do, I do a lot of consulting work and I, I try and the thing that I've sort of landed on is trying where I can to connect to the people that I'm doing the work for. And if I sort of care about them, um, then I care about making something that, that moves them

forward in some way. Um, and that, and, and I think we can all bring some degree of that to to what we do um which is and i think the other thing is is we tend to at least i get into a mindset of if what i'm doing isn't this monumental thing then it's not important whereas realizing like you know a life is important anybody's life is as important as anybody else's. And if I'm adding value to the people around me, then I'm adding value. Definitely. And, you know, I think also it's, it's hard these days, uh, with the different channels that we kind of have available to us with Twitter and Facebook and all this kind of stuff, you know, it can feel there's a, I feel at least a pressure when you see all these people doing all these things

you know it's it's hard i guess this kind of comes back to the parable in a way uh it's it's hard not to kind of let those things affect you and make you think like oh man you know these guys are doing this and that and it's it's not so much but it's, you can feel periodically a little bit of an inadequacy if you're just every day reading, you know, how much cool stuff all these different people are doing. And that's a very, you know, that's a very different situation than say like five years ago or six years ago when, you know, you, at least for me anyway, the inputs that I had didn't really do that for me. You know, like I don't even really know what I was reading back then, but it was like probably like print magazine once every two months or something.

You know, it's like, it's a very different sense of what the rest of the community is doing than now. We're like, you know, a casual glance at my Twitter, I'll see like somebody that just closed an a hundred million dollar deal, you know, somebody that just got elected Senator and like, you know, who knows what you see, but it's like, it definitely, it changes the fabric of your mind and like where you place yourself in, in, uh, in the creative community that you're in. And I think like they're good parts of that, but then they're also, you know, bad parts of that. Just like the, uh, the two wolves. Yep. Well, soon when you post on your Twitter feed that you were interviewed on our show, you'll have that sort of jealousy from everybody else. Oh, somebody closed a hundred million dollar deal and Alex was on the

one you feed. And yeah, there you go. You know, exactly. It's like a, it's like a FOMO. Exactly. Exactly. It's a FOMO culture. I think it is interesting though, at least for me, I think there was this sense once upon a time that having a creative or artistic skill there was something rare or unique or special about it um and that has been to a large extent slowly destroyed for me um to think that it because there is so much of it and it it is special because what we all what we each can create is different than anybody else. And I do think creation is a very special thing, but it's not as unique or rare as I approach it from a perspective of awe of, wow, look at how amazing we as humans are, how much amazing stuff is being created versus feeling like I wish I was the only one doing it. Cause then I would be more important. Yeah, definitely. Uh, that, yeah, that's a really

interesting thing. And you notice that in like a practical way, uh, these days in Silicon Valley, like with, uh, designers and creatives being in such demand and, and there are, you know, a ton of them, but it still feels like, uh, it's, you know, it's this kind of new, new frontier, uh, probably in the same way it felt, I guess it would feel like having been an engineer a little while ago that probably felt, um, like a gold rush of sorts. Now it's like creativity is now seen as like, oh man, like we have to harness this thing and how, you know, how valuable, valuable it will be for, for a company. Um, but yeah, no, it's, it's definitely true. And I think there are good parts of that, you know, it's exciting to see so much good work being done by so many people. Uh, you know, it's, it's amazing. I think like that,

like you say, it's a, there's a sense of awe there. Definitely. Um, that, you know, I think is only, is only good. Um, although it can be a little overwhelming at a certain point. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal?

The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does tom cruise really do his own stunts his stuntman reveals the answer and you never know who's going to drop by mr brian cranson is with us how are you hello my friend wayne knight about jurassic park wayne knight welcome to really no really sir bless you all hello newman and you never know when howie mandel might just stop by to talk about your book Breakthrough,

which I think you were, I think the, correct me if I get it wrong, but I think the genesis was you were tasked to, I think, write something about writer's block and you were blocked on that. And so you just started asking a lot of, um, other people who are creative, their thoughts on, on how to get past writer's block. Do I kind of have it? Yeah. Yeah. I'd, uh, you know, I'd worked for, uh, Scott Hanson, who a lot of people know as Tycho, uh, the musician. Um, but he is also a designer. And when I worked for him and wrote for his blog, I had written a piece about creative block, uh, that I thought would be, you know, definitely better served by having a lot of other people who I really respected, uh, write about their thoughts. And that eventually

turned into a book. Uh, my publisher had seen the article and thought it would be cool if it, you know, we turn that into a book with lots more people. The original post was 25 people. fit, you know, we turned that into a book with lots more people. The original post was 25 people. And then the book, uh, was closer to a hundred. And so, you know, the idea was basically to get people from a lot of different industries, you know, I'm from the design community. So a lot of designers, but, you know, also musicians and, uh, you know, basically as, as many people as we could get that would talk about how they stay inspired and how they overcome ruts when they have them, you know, not everybody has them. And I thought it was interesting, you know, periodically to hear somebody say, and we got a couple, I can't remember now, but I remember one or two people writing me back and saying, Hey, I'd love to help.

I just never get creative block. And like, that was, that was kind of interesting, but you know, most people have, have these, have this experience and have a, have various tools, uh, to get over it. You touched on kind of the main thread, which is to get up and do something else. And there, there are lots of different ways to do that. Um, but yeah, you know, at the end it was, it was pretty cool. Cause I felt like, wow, I just have compiled this little cheat sheet for myself. You know, this is awesome. Uh, and then now we get to share it with everybody. So I think it's been out for, for a couple of years now. Um, and you know, I still get a lot of messages from people about how it's helping them, which is, you know, was always the goal. So it's been really cool. Yeah. I came across it with, uh, from brain pickings. They, I think it is one of their best

books of particular year. And she is anything that she recommends. I'm usually like, okay, that's going to be awesome because she's, she's been, she's been great. She's amazing. We're actually got an interview scheduled with her coming up, which I'm looking forward to. So maybe you could share a couple of your favorite things from the book and then maybe I'll point out a couple that, that I, that I liked. Yeah, definitely. Um, well it's, you know, it's hard, hard to pick a favorite. Um, but I, I think one of the, one of the earliest ones in the book, I forget which, um, what order it is in, but I know it's close to the front, uh, was from a guy named Aaron Coblin. And he talks about finding, uh, finding other geniuses and taking their spells.

And I loved when I read taking their spells. I just I like the idea of just picturing these other artists with little spell books that you can literally copy word for word, like, oh, cool spell that you have there. And that image always was really appealing to me. But then in also it's always been one of my favorite strategies. And also, it's always been one of my favorite strategies. I, you know, every week we'll reach out to somebody on email that I if I see some some cool work or these days, it's usually videos. If I see a good video that's shot really well, I will immediately find the DP, email them and say, hey, awesome job on this thing. Are you in San Francisco? Do you want to get coffee? And, you know, that's got like a 85, 90 percent success rate.

want to get coffee. And, you know, that's got like a 85, 90% success rate. And it's, it's so awesome to, to have that access to, to these people that are doing such great work. And so that's always been one of my favorite strategies because I find, you know, directly, I can get some very practical advice from these people, you know, their spells. Uh, but also, you know, it's interesting to kind of talk to them about the same stuff we're talking about, to see their perspective on what, how they stay, uh, motivated and how they overcome ruts and that kind of thing. So I really liked starting the book off in there with, with that one, just cause it really meant a lot to me. Um, I think if I had to pick another one, I, I, I think it's Jessica. I'm not sure how to pronounce her last name. Heiji. Heiji, yeah.

Heiji, yeah. She had a cool one about going through books and kind of smashing together random sentences. And this had a similar thread of thought that I had in the foreword, which I kind of like the idea periodically of kind of like a controlled chaos. And it is amazing, I think, what your mind will do when you kind of just take random pieces from random places and combine them together. And I think for me, creatively, that's always been a really effective strategy. You know, maybe taking if like the general mood from this movie you saw, and then the actual typeface from this poster you saw, and then the color palette from, you know, the shirt that, that guy's wearing over there and like just kind of bringing together lots of random elements, but

then, you know, making them into one cohesive thing that, that for me has always been really effective. So her strategy really spoke to me as well. Um, yeah, that's an interesting way to think about, we had her as one of our early guests also, and she's just, she's, she's pretty remarkable, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um, you know, and I think that was the other cool part about the book too, is like getting all these people who, you know, if from, from the outside seem to have absolutely no problem with creative block. You know, getting them to kind of tacitly admit that they do was kind of cool. And, you know, you can feel kind of like a kinship with them in that way.

And so, you know, that was a cool part about the project as well. I'd be curious to hear what you guys liked from in there. Yeah, there were a couple. I mean, I liked the idea of that several people had that what's wrong with creative block, that there's a natural germination process to being creative and that we tend to think of creativity as that last – somebody, I think, said it was the last – you know you know 25 of creativity is visible when you're writing or playing the guitar or doing the painting but so much of what is creative is that germination process that goes on in our minds and our you know our heart for lack of a better word before we ever get to that and that that that's kind of always happening and if we tend to that then it's not you, it's not always creative block. I thought that was one interesting perspective. Another was Michael Erad. Did

I say that right? Or I believe so. And he talks about, you know, taking the temperature of things and he tries to find out what's hot for him. Um, even if it's unrelated to what he's supposed to be working on and get going with that. And that tends to heat up, but they get similar to what you were saying earlier. Well, if I'm sort of stuck in this area, maybe I go do another, but I think it's just, it's the idea of getting going and some sort of momentum that maybe can transfer. Yeah. And then definitely. And then the last one, which I love, cause I always, you know, I'm always, there's no easy answers to anything. I'm always, Yeah, definitely. that's a real challenge for people and seems to have been a challenge for a long time, there's usually probably not a quick, easy answer, which is why a lot of strategies like there is in your book is a really helpful way to sort of approach it. Yeah. I think, you know, there's definitely

no one answer that you'll read and be like, great, got this problem figured out. You know, it's more like over the course of reading it, you know, hopefully you can kind of identify what it is that works for you already and what you think that you might want to incorporate piece by piece, but it's definitely, it will be a hodgepodge of strategies for sure. Um, you know, I, I noticed the other day that I was getting a lot of good ideas going by. I usually make coffee in my apartment, but I noticed I was getting more ideas on my way to and from the coffee shop. And, you know, very simply just taking a walk, but it was not something that it didn't use to do

anything for me, you know? And then all of a sudden now it's like, it's starting to, and I don't know why, but I'm like, all right, great. You know, I don't, I I'd rather, rather get coffee down the street anyway. So it works out. Um, but it's definitely, you know, it's, it's kind of ever-changing in that way. I think that's a really valid point is that for creativity or really any aspect of our lives, something that worked for us at one point may not work for us at another point. And so I think that's the, that's the other lesson there is to be willing to experiment with different things.

Yeah. And I don't know who told me, it's kind of one of these things you hear all the time that as you get older, you get less creative. This, I feel like this is just something that people say, and that's always just terrified me. And I haven't noticed it happening, but I feel like wherever that came from, I hope that it goes away. Cause I don't feel that way, but it it's, I feel like I'm constantly in this state of fear where like one day it's just all going to go away. I won't be able to think of anything new. And, you know, I think that what I have noticed is that it just changes, like you're saying, you know, the places that I get my

inspiration, they change. It's not always the same. And, you know, one well is dry, another one appears. And so that that's always been really exciting. But to the extent that it's possible, I would love for that myth that I think of just go away. I know there are physical things that happen in our brains over time, but it's like, I don't know. I think it just, we change and that's cool. Yeah, I think it is a change. Well, Alex, this has been a really interesting conversation and I'm glad that we got to meet and talk through some of this. Yeah, me too. I really enjoyed talking about it.

You know, I think about this stuff a lot, and I think it's important for everybody to think about a lot, or at least to some extent. You don't want to go crazy, but it's definitely important. So I really enjoyed our conversation as well. Yeah, and we'll have links out on our show notes to your website where people can see some of the different things you're working on and also to the book. Awesome. That sounds great. Thank you guys so much. Thank you, Alex. Take care. Take care. All right. Bye. you can learn more about alex cornell and this podcast at one you feed.net slash cornell