The One You Feed - Amy Clover

Episode Date: February 10, 2015

Amy Clover is the founder of StrongInsideOut.com and the driving force behind the 2014 Strong Inside Out Tour. 8 Years ago she was battling depression and OCD and after a near suicide checked herself into the hospital. Now she helps other people take back the power to fight their own demons through fitness and positive action. In This Interview Amy and I Discuss...The One You Feed parable.Taking care of our body is a major component of feeding our good wolf.Listening to both wolves.Her battles with depression and OCD.Seeking love in all the wrong places.Learning to fight for ourselves and our mental health.The role of medication in fighting depression.The importance of trying different types of fitness until you find one you like.The importance of just getting started.Breaking workouts down to 10 minutes to get started.The importance of support and accountability in changing behavior.How she still struggles with depression.Getting moving when you are depressed.How we don't have to be living the perfect life to be happy.How fear is the main motivation behind peoples resistance to change.How we owe it to ourselves to try.That some of us need to grow up.How by choosing not to be the hero in our own lives we are choosing to be a victim.How frequently she uses mantras to help her focus her life.The three mindset changes to make things suck less.How the story doesn't end here...there is always more.Questioning our automatic negative thoughts.Walking the tightrope of repression versus wallowing.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Failure doesn't have to be this life-shattering event, you know? Depression doesn't have to be this life-shattering event. You can still be happy in moments, even if you are feeling that depression. It doesn't have to have this hold over you. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like, garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.

We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like

why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallyknowreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really Know Really podcast.

Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Our guest today is Amy Clover, founder of StrongInsideOut.com and the driving force behind the 2014 Strong Inside Out Tour. Eight years ago, she was battling depression and OCD, and after a near suicide, checked herself into the hospital. Now, she helps other people take back

the power to fight their own demons through fitness and positive action. And before we get to the interview, here's a quick message from Eric. Hey everybody, I wanted to let you know over the last several months I've gotten requests for whether I work individually with people, and up till now I have been saying no to that. But I'm going to start working with a few select people on feeding your good wolf, whether that be things like behavior change, mindset change, or just generating ideas for how to move forward in your life.

So if that's something you're interested in, drop me a line at eric at oneufeed.net. Thanks. Hi, Amy, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks so much for having me. Yeah, I'm really glad to get you on and to explore some of the things that you've built and some of the ideas you've come up with around Strong Inside Out. So before we get into that, though, I'd like to, as we always do, go through the parable. So there's a grandfather who's

talking with his grandson in life, and he says, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love. And the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops, and he thinks about it for a second, and he looks up at his grandfather, and he says, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you how that parable applies to you in your life and in the work that you do. I think it directly resonates with what I do. Over at Strong Inside Out,

I help people overcome struggle, namely depression and anxiety, with the use of fitness and positive action. So it's all about the wolves as far as what I do. As far as like fitness goes, getting healthier, there's the wolf that cries for binge eating and junk food and staying still all day long. And then there's a good wolf who cries for movement and healthy foods, whole foods and all of that kind of stuff. But as far as depression, I mean, it's almost literal in that sense with the good and the bad wolves there. But I think that the key thing is that a lot of kind of personal development bloggers, I think, misjudge is that it's not necessarily about starving one wolf and only feeding another. It's about paying attention to them both, but knowing when to feed each one of them,

if that makes sense. Yep. There's something there, even in the things you described, binge eating or over drinking or anything, any of those things, there's something that your emotions are trying to tell you. Oh, definitely. Definitely. And if you starve that wolf, it's going to be really hungry one of these days and it's going to come back with a vengeance. Yep. So maybe you could tell listeners a little bit about your story to what sort of led you to where you are. And then from there, maybe we can talk a little bit more about the methods and

approaches you take to helping people get healthier again. Yeah, sure. So when I was growing up, I was kind of ruled by bad wolves. And I grew up and I was diagnosed in high school with clinical depression and obsessive compulsive disorder, which is an anxiety disorder. And I was already made fun of. I was kind of a nerd in school, and I just was really shy. I've always been kind of awkward. Still am, proudly now, though. And I didn't want to bring any attention to myself, so I wouldn't talk about it. I refused to acknowledge that it existed. I hid my medications away from people. I didn't want to believe that it was true, because I didn't want to be so different with all of these

diagnoses. So I held it inside and I held it inside and I didn't seek help. And then it just exploded when I was in high school and I rebelled and I started lashing out at teachers and at my friends and at other kids and that kind of stuff. And it just kind of went in this downward spiral. I started to self-medicate and I started to seek love in all the wrong places, getting into the wrong kinds of relationships for the wrong reasons. And I just reached this point in my early 20s where I just didn't want to fight anymore. I just didn't feel like it was worth it. And so I tried to give up and I was hospitalized for threatening to take my own life back in 2005. And it was when I was thrown into that hospital and I didn't really

know that I would be thrown into that hospital. But I am not the biggest fan of being told what to do. And that's all that happens in a hospital like that. You're told when to eat, when to be in group, what you eat, when you take medications. You don't have a say in what medications you take or if you take them at all. All of those kinds of things. And I just realized, wow, I have all these choices that I make every single day outside of this place. And I feel like I don't have any control over them when I have complete control over them. I might as well try to make choices to make my life better instead of just saying that, oh, it's not worth it. Oh, it's this life sentence. It's

not worth fighting. Instead, I went and after that hospital, I did devote myself to really turning my life around. And it took a few years to actually find something that worked for me because there was a lot of failure in that initial trying. I kind of just rollercoastered up and down. And I finally found fitness. And it was the one thing that could really help me consistently make progress while working with my therapist at the same time with cognitive behavioral therapy. So I started thinking more positively. I started catching my negative, automatic negative thoughts in their tracks and rewiring them. But the fitness was what really helped me to almost form this discipline to keep working on myself and not give up on myself. You were using therapy, you were in fitness. Tell me about medication. Were you on medication at that time? I'm always curious about that as a fellow depression sufferer. And if you don't

want to talk about it, you don't have to, but I'm just kind of curious how that route played out for you and the role it's played. I'm a totally open book as far as this stuff goes. I'm going to discuss my full story on Strong Inside Out with all the nitty gritty details. If you guys want to read that, it's stronginsideout.com slash about. And it's just, I did in the very beginning do it with medication and I'm actually not of a thinking that all medication is bad. I think it's really great for some people to get to a foundation, to get to a base where they can start taking action to change their lives. Because it was seriously, depression is so crippling that to get out of bed was my goal for the day at the very beginning. To make eye contact

with somebody was a goal for the day. And I think you're laughing because you know how that feels, right? Just to have that one goal be so just astronomical and overwhelming. And just, I don't know if a lot of people know what it's like to feel such that crippling sense of depression of just not being able to get up. And I think that medication is a tool to be used wisely, not to be relied upon, but to get you to a point where you can start taking that action and hopefully you won't need it forever. But some people honestly do. It seems to be something that has, I have been involved with longer than I thought I would. And even though being really

healthy in other respects, there just seems to be a big difference between taking it and not taking it, regardless of exercise and all those different things. But everybody's got these different approaches. And I was just kind of curious. So my first question would be, you found fitness and were really into it. Had you been into it before? Was it ever something that had been part of your life and you liked it and then you came back to it? Or had you previously been like, oh, I hate working out? I mean, what would be your relationship with it been in the past? In high school and kind of growing up, I lived in Northern California. So I was kind of active in that we were outside a lot. But when I got into high school, I kind of became this like,

kind of cyberpunk kid. And I didn't really, I'd like all the jocks were the ones who made fun of us. And all the people who do sports for the ones who made fun of us. So I didn't want to work out, I thought it was stupid. I didn't want to be involved with the people who were working out with me, if that makes sense. And so I actually did do a few sports in my freshman year, but they really tailed off towards my, my, um, sophomore and junior years. And, um, they were completely non-existent in my senior year and throughout college. Um, but so I hated it because of what, um, the connotations that came with it, the kind of people who were involved with it. But, um, but I don't think that that was fair either coming from me at that age, but I started, um,

working out again because I was, um, I originally moved to LA when I was 19 to do acting. And, um, so as an actress, if I'm not a size double zero, I need to lose some weight. So I went into the gym and I, I worked out, you know, I used to say it was for the wrong reasons, but I don't think that there's any wrong reasons to start moving your body. So I kind of take back all of the times I've said that. So I did start moving my body, but I wasn't fueling my body correctly. And I just kept going through these cycles of working out too much, burning myself out, and then leaving it for months on end, and then picking it back up and doing the same thing over again. it for months on end and then picking it back up and doing the same thing over again.

When I really started fueling my body with what it needed and when I really started taking care of a lot of the kind of negative mindset I had around eating as well, that really helped me to get more consistent and to find workouts that really I loved. And so is that a big part of it, do you think, to continue to try different things till you find the workout that clicks for you? discovery of fitness. And I was like, okay, it's pretty good. I liked this one teacher. But then when he disappeared off the face of the earth, I didn't do yoga for years. And I picked it up again just a few years ago, and I fell in love with it. And now I can't get enough of it. So you have to find that thing. You just have to keep trying. Go buy as many Groupons as you can. Right, right. So you talk a lot about change that obviously in order to move from that place of being really depressed and unhappy with ourselves, we have to make change. And you talk a lot about how that change has to come from us. And you've got something that you say, the truth of change is that A, no one's going to do it for you. And B, there is no magic pill.

Yep, it's so true. Sorry, guys. Well, I love that because I'm certainly always, I'm skeptical of anything that sounds like a magic pill. But what you've got and what I really liked when I started looking at your stuff is it's a very no-nonsense, like you're just gonna have to go do this stuff whether you feel like it or not.

But what are ways that people can, who are really stuck, how do you get going? You talk about momentum. It's another thing that this show talks a lot about how once we're moving, it's pretty good. But what are ways that people who are really stuck get moving? That's actually the main struggle I find in people who read Strong Inside Out is just taking that first step. That's what I wrote Make Your Moment About. But more specifically, I have the Strong Inside Out Bootcamp, which is my workout program specifically for people who struggle with depression or anxiety. And it's just, as soon as people start, they're like, how do I get started? Please help

me get started. And since I'm a personal coach in there, it's really exciting getting these people to realize that they can take those steps and that they can develop this consistent exercise program. And tomorrow, I want you at this time of day, whatever time of day is best for them, to get up and do 10 minutes of movement, usually the workout that I have programmed for them. So do 10 minutes of this workout, however many sets that ends up being. And when you get to 10 minutes, you either can stop or you can keep going. It's totally up to you. The workout counts if you just do 10 minutes, and that's it. And then email me afterwards. Or you can keep going. It's totally up to you. The workout counts if you just do 10 minutes. And that's it. And then email me afterwards. And usually people will come to me after that 10 minutes is done and be like, oh my gosh,

it was so much fun after the 10 minutes. I really struggled in the first five. But after the 10 minutes, it was great. And I kept going. And I felt really good. I finished two sets. So it's usually just challenging yourself to just 10 minutes. Because with exercise, it usually takes about that 10 minutes to get over the hard stuff. So your body's processes are kind of, you know, getting used to all the excess oxygen, all the extra effort that you're exerting. And it takes about that 10 minutes for your body to chill out and just go with the flow. Yeah, that first 10 minutes is, is, is, it seems terrible, no matter how in shape or not terrible is the wrong word, but difficult, no matter how in shape. I mean, I, you know, when I could run, you know, 20 miles, the first two miles were still like, oh, God, they were the worst two miles.

Totally, totally. And, and I always, you know, I think about that now where I'm like, well, if you never, if you never run more than two miles, you never get to the good part. Yep, exactly. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer.

Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you, and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us today.

How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening?

Really No Really. Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. There's lots of workouts out there so what's what's the difference about the approach that you're taking with people? Well there's no program that's specifically for people who struggle with depression and anxiety and I think that people who meet these very specific struggles

need different kinds of workouts and a different kind of approach than any other program out there. Most of the programs you'll find out on the market right now in the fitness industry are too overwhelming. A lot of them are those quick button workouts. They're really intense and they're not maintainable. And the food programs that go with them can actually worsen some people's anxiety. There's a lot of people in our program that have recovered from eating disorders and those kinds of things. So my primary focus is mindset and just getting you moving. It's not a weight loss program, though some people are using that because we tailor everything to your goals because of the personal aspect with the coaching and the Facebook coaching and weekly group coaching as well, or bi-weekly, excuse me. But it's really about giving you the right kinds of movement that will help de-stress you and

de-overwhelm you. So for instance, for the depression group, because there's two tracks, there's the anxiety and stressed out group, and there's the depression or lack of motivation group. So for the depression group, it's just about getting started and not overwhelming with too much movement, too much stress. Because if you do things like, I love HIIT workouts, which is high intensity interval training. And it's really like short burst, quick activity, really sweaty, like really just panting and like sweating out your eyeballs. But that is not the best for people in this program, especially since most of these people are just starting out. So it's usually just very simple strength training, maybe circuits, but not going too fast to tell people to just go with their own pace.

Take as long as it needs to go and really focusing on the breath as well. Let's talk about mindset, for example, because your sight is strong inside out. So, you know, exercise is sort of, at least on the surface, is outside in, right? I do something on the outside and it makes me feel better inside. How do you help people from the inside out? What are the pieces inside that you're working on? What are the keys there? There's monthly mindset challenges. Our support system is really unique in that it's crazy supportive and there for you wherever you need it. We have the Facebook group coaching, which we're very active in, and most of our members are very active in there as well and very supportive. It's a completely positive and safe space. We have the personal coaching aspect, which is done over email,

but it's completely personalized so that people are going after their own goals with the help of the bootcamp. So it's them first, bootcamp second, if that makes sense. And then we also have bi-weekly group coaching calls where they get to meet each other and I get to talk to them face to face and remind everybody that I'm not a robot, that I'm a human being and I'm there for them and that each person in here is there for them too. So the support aspect is really, really wonderful in tailoring that to a specific mindset. But also we have mindset challenges in there that change every month. So every month you'll get a mindset challenge. And for instance, one of them is meditate five days a week, and that's for the anxiety track. And that's just to kind of build up a good habit. And a lot of these things, you will not,

or not a lot of these things, some of these things you won't relate with. Some of these things will not help you personally, but at least you gave them a shot and you tried them and you found out they don't work for you. So hopefully a few of them will work really well for you. And that's what we aim to do through. It's a six month program. So you get six mindset challenges altogether. And so it sounds like the big part of what you think is important to making changes, that accountability and support. Accountability, support, and just habit, really focus on habits. Not so much just, you know, one thing for, you know, this week, and then something else next week. to do this. I'm really battling with doing the thing that I know is good for me. What sort of thought process do you go through or you recommend other people can go through to kind of get past

that stuck moment where they're really wrestling with sort of falling back into those older patterns or not wanting to get out of bed that day, that sort of thing? A, honor it with a break, or B, have that source of support behind you so that when you feel like that, you can reach out to those people and say, hey, I'm really struggling today. This is what I'm feeling. Tell me something. And either they're going to say, hey, it sounds like you just need a break. You've done this many days in a row, and so just take a day off. Let's go get coffee or something. Or they're going to say, no, you need to get up because you know, you're going to feel X, Y, and Z way if you do. And these are your goals and just put them out in front of you. Having that support system, it really is so key. I've heard you talk in other places. I think

it would be safe to say that depression or feeling bad is not like eliminated from your life. How do you, what's that like for you today? And how are you able to deal with it better now than you were before? Well, what I struggle with is clinical depression. So it's always going to be here. It's not anything that I can make go away completely. If I said that I would be in total denial. And so that's one thing that I think people come to my site and they don't realize is that I still struggle. I still struggle every so often, a few times a year. I'll go into these depressions.

I just went into one in the fall and I was honest and I wrote about it. But the difference now is that I don't let it rule my life. I don't let it make decisions for me. I don't let it keep me from living a life that I want to live. I live in spite of it. So that's what I hope to help other people do too. And when it comes around, I really do honor it. I don't try to, you know, I don't, I try not to feed that wolf so much, you know, I don't like dwell in it. I know I'll do a good cry every now and then, but then when that cry is done, I'm like, well, that was good. Time to take action and start moving forward again. Time to do the things that

I know are going to pull me out of this faster than if I just sit in my house and dwell in it. So I'll call my friends. I have a wonderful support system I'm so grateful for. I pull out my gratitude journal as I say something I'm grateful for. I'll go to the gym or I'll go, I don't actually go to the gym. That's kind of a lie. What I do when I'm in those down points is I'll go for a run outside. That really helps to reroute me into grounding myself in the good. But I have all of these tools in my tool belt now that did take a few years to kind of get there, but that's what I'm hoping to help people do for themselves too. You have a line that says, it's beyond important to realize that you don't have to be living the perfect life to be happy.

Mm-hmm. Tell me what you mean by that. Oh, exactly what I just said. I don't live a perfect life for sure. I mean, I fail sometimes. I get depressed sometimes. But it doesn't mean I can't be happy in the middle of it. Failure doesn't have to be this life-shattering event. You know, depression doesn't have to be this life-shattering event.

You can still be happy in moments, even if you are feeling that depression. It doesn't have to have this hold over you. That wolf doesn't have to devour you every single day, every single moment, you know? So I think that it's just about really choosing the life that you want to live and whatever else happens to you because you can't control everything that happens to you. Just react accordingly. That's great. So you talk about making your own motivation. So we've talked a little bit about using people to support you and do all that. And you talk about making your own motivation. And then there are two other concepts that you talk about with that. One is the resistance and the other is the wall.

Can you explain that or unpack that a little bit more? Sure. So the resistance is something that we come up against a lot. So a lot of you, if you guys are struggling with getting moving or getting past a plateau or something like that, then you're up against a lot of resistance because you know that you need to change the way that you are right now in order to get a different result, right? But that change is massive. Any change like that is massive that's going to get you to a body change, a mindset change, anything like that. So the resistance that pops up in you is completely normal. But it's all about just becoming aware of that resistance and breathing into it and not necessarily fighting it,

not like pushing it down, pushing it away, but really just honoring what you're resisting, why you're resisting it, and then doing it anyways, just going for it and knowing that it's going to probably suck and that's totally cool, but just go for it. You owe yourself at least a try. And the wall is very much like the resistance is. The wall is just something that it's just really, really basically intensified resistance. Walk me through in your own head. So you're in one of those low periods for you and there's things you know that are good for you and you don't feel like, you know, you come up against that resistance. What goes on in your own head?

What do you tell yourself? Well, first I acknowledge it. So it's really important to acknowledge it and not pretend that nothing's there, that nothing is keeping you back besides yourself. But that's something that a lot of my friends tell themselves. Like the only person holding you back is you. And that's true. But it's also like, hey, acknowledge why you're really resisting. Like, go a little bit deeper into that. And you'll find that resistance there, just like a block right in front of you. So, what are you resisting and why

is something that I constantly ask myself. I like do a lot of questionnaires with myself. So, what are you resisting and why? What do you see in your future that's causing all this resistance? And then I usually, sometimes I'll journal, but usually I just think it through or I'll talk it through with, I'm a huge fan of therapy and I think it's great for everybody. So I'll talk it through with my therapist or a good friend of mine or my husband and just really work it out down to the detail of why I'm, resistance is usually fear. So what I'm scared of and why I need to take action anyways. And if this particular action is really causing a lot of resistance, is there another action that I can take that would get me the same result?

So I'm really analytical when it comes to that kind of stuff. But usually I need somebody else to help me through that. I need the assistance of like my husband or a friend or a therapist or something. You said that resistance for you is usually some sort of fear that you find inside. Can you give any examples of what those might look like? What those might be. I'm just, I really think it's interesting for somebody who has, you know, you've found a way to overcome that stuck spot. And I just think it's really interesting to see what's going on in people's heads that have the ability to do that. Oh, thank you. I think that the fear is, fear is the main motivation behind most resistance, behind, you know, most people's

lack of motivation to change. And I think that it's, you know, we can go through an example of maybe you're afraid to take that first step into moving your body because you're afraid of how much work it's going to take. Because what if you fail and you've done all this work and it was all for nothing. But the thing is that you owe yourself that shot. You owe yourself at least to try to see if it works. Because who knows you could discover all of these things that make you really happy by just trying. I mean, life isn't meant to be sat at a desk and waiting, waiting for somebody to change your life for you. Life is meant to be

an adventure. It's really meant for you to go out and grasp all these things and find out what doesn't work for you. And that's going to mean failure and it's going to hurt so bad, but it's going to be awesome because after that, you're going to learn what is going to work for you. But in order to learn all those things, you have to go try it. You have to go do it for yourself because no one will do it for you. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like

why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts?

His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's gonna drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. Bless you all.

Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really. Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason

Bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another line that you use that I really like, and I think it's a little bit, it's probably slightly intentionally provocative, but it's a great line, which is a lot of us need to grow up. In what ways did you need to grow up? I really grew up when I started taking responsibility for my own life. I think a lot of people get stuck in, and it's part of the depression mindset too, man.

It's just that you get stuck in this place where you think it's not fair and that you shouldn't have to deal with this depression. You shouldn't have to deal with this disorder. Not everybody has to deal with this. Why am I going through this? And then that causes a lot of negative actions that make your life worse or keep it exactly the same in this dark hole. And I started saying, actually, I wrote about this once where I was talking with my friend I had just recently gone through a really horrible breakup and this was right before I really changed my life for the better and I was just crying to him one day and I said I'm just so tired of being the victim and he just looked at me and just kind of stared at me. And I was like, I think I'm making myself the victim by not

choosing not to be one. And that's what a lot of us do is by you choosing not to be the hero of your own life, you're choosing the victim role. So yes, gently, lovingly, I'm saying some of us need to grow up, but it's not easy. And I respect that it's hard for a lot of us. It was really hard for me. Yeah. Well, I think it's a lot of what you're saying is that it's, that to me means becoming realistic about what's really going on, which is kind of some of the, you know, the tough pills to swallow, even though there's no magic pill, but that's one of them, right? There's no magic and that it's going to be hard to change and it's going to take effort. And I'm the only one that can do it. And I think that's not childish thinking. That's a much more mature way of looking at the world and

challenging, but ultimately fruitful. Another thing that you recently wrote about was something that you called three mindset changers to make any situation suck less. Can you talk about what those are? Sure. I'm big on mantras. They really help me through a lot of my recovery. They really speak to me and I use them when I work out basically through everything that I do in my life. A mantra helps me through it. Um, so a mantra is kind of just like an affirmation that you say to yourself that helps, um, to root you in what really matters to you. Um, so I constantly share them on strong inside out, but, um, this past couple of weeks, um, my rise up group, which is my depression group, the Strong Inside Out boot camp, has been just kind of thrown for a loop. It feels like everybody's going through some major changes that they didn't necessarily know were coming.

Some people are losing their jobs. Some people are breaking up with people. Some people are just major changes in their life and they're just like not sure how to handle them. It's just really overwhelming and they're doing a great job with it. But I thought that maybe I could write something that would help them to start to view it differently or maybe move through it a little bit faster. So the very first one was that the story doesn't end here. So a lot of us that struggle with depression, one of the biggest risks is dwelling. And dwelling will keep us in it longer. So I believe that if you tell yourself that the story doesn't end here, if you read any good book, the story won't end where the hero is just right in the middle of a really big struggle and then it ends.

It doesn't end that way. And it shouldn't end that way for you either. So if you just keep thinking that the story doesn't end here, the hero will prevail. Just keep telling yourself things like that. That'll help you through it. But also the next one was the, I don't remember the next one. This is not your forever, reminding yourself that this one instance is temporary. It's not permanent. It's not always going to be like this. There are waves. The tide will go out again. That is something that helps me a lot of the time if

I'm going through a dark period. And then the last thing is, which is for an extremely sucky situation, sometimes we do something that we're responsible for and we end up ruining it. And that's something that's bound to throw anybody into a depression. So say you cheated on somebody or you did something at work that got you fired or something like that. The mantra that I'm using to help those people is that this one event doesn't determine my worth. This doesn't make you who you are. This one time that you did something crappy doesn't make you crappy person. It just means that you did something crappy. So, okay, take a deep breath, apologize, but now move on from it. Don't let it own any more of your life. It doesn't deserve any more of your time. Just move forward. You don't have to let guilt own you. Yeah. And that can even hold true for multiple crappy things you've done. own you. Yeah. And that can even hold true for multiple crappy things you've done.

For a lot of us, right? It's not one. It's a string of crappy things sort of strung together in a period of time. Yeah. I think that that's also like something that AA is based on too, is they call and apologize to people in the past who they've hurt. I think that that's actually a really great way to heal. Yeah. I think it's similar to that idea that, um, you know, failure is an event, not, you know, it's not who you are. It's a very similar concept to be able to separate our identity of who we are from the actions that we take and the results we get from those, which is very, you know, it's, that can be a very difficult thing to do. We're near the end of our time, but one last thing I wanted to just touch on briefly is you talked about one of the big things that was important to you in that early recovery was

using cognitive behavioral therapy and using it to question those automatic negative thoughts. And I'm not asking you to be a counselor in this case, but can you give a quick walkthrough of what that process is? Yeah, definitely. So it took me a really long time to make it habit, but I eventually did. And that was with the help of an amazing therapist. And I actually worked with a social worker in the beginning of my journey with that, and she was wonderful. But it's really about becoming aware of the negative thoughts that happen, their triggers, what makes you feel that way so that you can be more prepared for those events. And then looking for the truth in it or looking for evidence within it. And if there isn't any, then you can talk yourself out of it that much easier. If there is some, then what can you

do to take care of it, to lessen the there is some, then what can you do to take care of it, to lessen the anxiety that it's causing you? So that's basically cognitive behavioral therapy. And I would suggest that you read more from me because that was a very simplified version of what it is. But just being aware of what we're thinking and then being able to question the validity of that. Yeah. And it really did help me a lot with mindfulness as well, which is so just so helpful with depression at all.

I'm always a thing that I'm intrigued about. And we talk about on the show a lot and I'd be interested in getting your perspective on it as somebody who deals with depression and recognizes that there's both a need to feel the feelings that are happening and also the need to take action that moves beyond those how how for yourself do you know when it's time to do which of those things right because it's one we can go way too far in either direction where i just wallow in my feeling or the flip side is you can jump into action and use busyness and action to avoid things that legitimately need to be dealt with in your life.

How does that balance strike? How do you strike that balance? It's like a tightrope walking that. So that's a really good question. I think that it's really hard because I think it's so personal. For me personally, when I feel it coming is when I usually, you know, cut back on the high intensity workouts, cut back on, um, you know, saying yes to every single thing that comes my way,

which I've actually gotten a lot better about, um, in the past couple of years, but I get really excited about pretty much everything. So, um, I have a problem with that. Um, but I think that it's just about really, again, that awareness. I'm a kind of a broken record when it comes to this kind of thing, but it really is about that awareness and asking yourself what you need, what you need to feel the best you possible, what you need to move forward. And sometimes what you need to move forward is just to be here and feel it just for a few days or just for a day even.

And depending on how much the depression is getting you. But then really just staying aware of the fact that you want to do other things in your life that don't include lying around the house and not doing anything. So, so really just kind of watching yourself with an outside eye and, and being able to honor those other things that you want to do just as much as what you need. Yep. That's always such a, a tricky balance to find. And, uh, but I think that, um, it is, I feel like a broken record too lately with on some podcasts I've been on where I just it's like, I just keep coming back to awareness. Like if I'm not aware, none of this other stuff works. I mean, just you can't do any of it. If we're, I can't do any of it if I'm not aware of what's actually happening and trying to catch those thoughts, think about

them, interrogate them, question them, and then try and think about what's the direction forward. Yeah, so, so true. So we can be broken records together. All right, perfect. Well, Amy, thanks so much for taking the time to come on the show. I will have links to your Strong Inside Out pages on our show notes, and I really appreciate you taking the time. Thanks so much for having me. This was a lot of fun. Okay. Take care. Bye.

Bye. You can learn more about Amy Clover and this podcast at oneyoufeed.net slash clover. And just as a reminder, if you're interested in working with me one-on-one on feeding your good wolf, send me an email at eric at oneyoufeed.net. Thanks. Bye.