The One You Feed - Chris Grosso

Episode Date: February 9, 2016

This week we talk to Chris Grosso about Everything MindOnly the third repeat guest on the The One You Feed, Chris Grosso is a public speaker, writer, and author of Indie Spiritualist: A No Bullshit Exploration of Spirituality and Everything Mind: What I’ve Learned About Hard Knocks, Spiritual Awakening and the Mind-Blowing Truth of it All.He writes for ORIGIN Magazine, Huffington Post, and Mantra Yoga + Health Magazine, and has spoken and performed at Wanderlust Festival, Celebrate Your Life, Yoga Journal Conference, Sedona World Wisdom Days, Kripalu, and more.He is a member of the advisory board for Drugs over Dinner and hosts The Indie Spiritualist Podcast on The Mindpod Network. Our Sponsor this Week is Wisdom Publications. Click here to explore their offerings In This Interview Chris Grosso and I Discuss...The One You Feed parableWelcoming Mara inHow there is no end point in lifeHis new bookHow spirit surrounds us in all aspects of lifeHow spirituality includes the dark sides of ourselvesFinding spirituality everywhere, including Megadeath and MotorheadThe relative and absolute truthThe journey from the head to the heartThat there are different approaches to awakeningArt as a path to spiritualityMeditation versus mindfulnessEverything MindDiscovering interdependence at a Motorhead showPositive concentration practicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I really do believe people can cultivate a spiritual lifestyle by first exploring what their passions are and then building it from there. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true. And yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking.

Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction. How they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor,

what's in the museum of failure, And does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to really know really.com and register to win $500 a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition sign. Jason bobblehead. The really know really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Chris Grosso.

He's only the third repeat guest on this episode is Chris Grosso. He's only the third repeat guest on The One You Feed. Chris Grosso is a public speaker, writer, and author of Indie Spiritualist, a no-bullshit exploration of spirituality, and Everything Mind, what I've learned about hard knocks, spiritual awakening, and the mind-blowing truth of it all. Chris writes for Origin Magazine, Huffington Post, and Mantra and Yoga and Health Magazine. He has spoken and performed at the Wanderlust Festival, Celebrate Your Life, Yoga Journal Conference, Sedona World Wisdom Days, and more. He's a member of the advisory board for Drugs Over Dinner and hosts the Indie Spiritualist podcast on the Mind

Podcast. Here's the interview with Chris Grasso. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the show. Hey, Eric. Thank you very much for having me on. I appreciate it. Yes, you are, I think, our third repeat guest, so it doesn't happen often. So we are happy to have you back on. You've written a new book called Everything Mind. I have. Wow, man. First of all, I did not know I am only your third repeat guest, so I am doubly excited now. Also feeling a bit more pressure. I've really got to make sure it's worth you guys' while. But no, really, thank you, man. I really

appreciate it. Yeah, your new book, very much like your previous book, The Indie Spiritualist, is really about your journey through the spiritual landscape. The subheading is what I've learned about hard knocks, spiritual awakening, and the mind-blowing truth of it all. So we will dig more into that book shortly, but let's start off like we always do with the parable. There's a grandfather who's talking to his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always

at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love. And the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed, hatred, fear. And the grandson stops. He thinks about it for a second. And he looks up at his grandfather. And he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. Yeah.

Wow. You know, I forgot that you started that parable. And now I wish I could go back and listen to the last answer I had because I, man, I have no idea where i went with it over a year ago neither does anyone else at this point probably yeah so you can i wouldn't worry about being original at this point yeah no i just hopefully i don't duplicate myself i mean where i'm at today when i'm hearing that it actually makes me think of uh what in buddhism they teach quite a bit about the seeds that we have laying dormant in

our store consciousness and how we water those seeds, you know, whether they're positive seeds or negative seeds. And we water them by what we do in our lives. You know, what we feed ourselves. And I'm not speaking just food wise, but you, but what do we feed ourselves? What are we reading? What are we doing? How are we showing up in the world? Are we being of service in some way? Are we taking care of ourselves? So that's kind of what it represents to me today with where I'm at. The seeds in my consciousness and how am I watering them or which ones am I watering? in my consciousness and how am I watering them or which ones am I watering? But I really dig that parable, man.

I remember I really liked that the first time you guys shared it too. That's a great way to start this segment. Yeah, I think, you know, I know you have a history of drug abuse and addiction like myself. And that parable, I think, has a particular significance for some people. I think it resonates for everybody. But for me, boy, that bad wolf was so, you know, out of control. Well fed, we shall say. Right. And you know, the interesting thing is, though it is, in my experience, not as well fed today, it's still there. You know, like, I know that it rears its big bad wolf head every now and then. And sometimes I give it more attention than I should, but that's life and it's a practice.

And I just show up each day trying to nurture the good wolf and feed and care for that one. Yeah. That's one of the things I really like about the parable is that it indicates like, this is the human condition. We all have this. And it indicates that it's not like a foregone conclusion. This is a close battle, right? It goes on. It's not like we're going to, you know, do enough meditation retreats where suddenly, you know, do enough meditation retreats where suddenly, you know, there's no longer that, that dual nature where we no longer have to, uh, focus on, on being the best version of ourselves. I think that that never ends. And that's part of what I like about it is because I think it really normalizes the fact that none of us are perfect and none of us are going to be perfect.

Oh man, absolutely. I even love when, uh teachers will share stories about the Buddha after he'd attained enlightenment and how he'd have gatherings and Mara would still come around and sometimes his attendance would kind of freak out like, oh my God, Buddha, Mara tea, you know, and, uh, and that I think is a wonderful example of how even the Buddha, you know, after attaining enlightenment still had his wolf, so to speak, you know, so it doesn't matter who you are. It is part of the human condition, bottom line. So yeah, it's just, what do we, you know, how do we handle it? What do we do when that wolf does show up? So that is a nice byproduct of practices like meditation or other spiritual endeavors. They help us to show up more consciously for these things and work with them a bit more skillfully. Though, like I already said, though, it doesn't mean we're perfect. Using myself as an example, so far from it. But it's a real effort that I make, and I'm grateful for that.

Yep. Well, myself included on that far from perfect. So let's start off with the title of the book, which is Everything Mind. What does that mean? So Everything Mind, really, it considers everything in our lives as part of the spiritual path. And that includes kind of like we've already been alluding to in a way, our triumphs and our heartbreaks, the joys and suffering, the light and the dark. I've personally come to realize that these are all equally suitable teachers and lessons

in life. And part of the reason I really liked Everything Mine for the title is because something I noticed that happens for a lot of people when it comes to the spiritual path, and myself very much included in the early stages of my own journey, was that I would and others tend to compartmentalize spirituality as something that's really only happening when we're formally practicing. You know, whether we're sitting in meditation or attending a yoga class, working with a certain mantra, you know, things of that nature. what I've come to recognize is that spirituality, or even better yet, spirit, imbues all of life in every minute, whether I am consciously aware of it in that moment or not, it is all that is happening. Like I said, it imbues all things. So taking that into consideration, another reason I liked everything, mine for the title, was

again something I fell victim to, something I see others tend to struggle with, is that they predominantly will associate spirituality with just the positive kind of love and light aspects of their lives and their experiences. And of course, that is absolutely a part of it. But obviously, life isn't always positive and happy. So if we're looking to be inclusive in our practice, I think it's of paramount importance that we honor the dark side, the bad wolf, and in a way where we acknowledge its presence and work with it. I know our last episode that we had done together, we titled it No Mud, No Lotus, which was based on a saying that the Zen Buddhist teacher Thich Nhat Hanh uses quite often.

And I love that because to me that means our best selves can grow out of the most difficult times, our pain and our suffering. And so as we begin to live our lives from this place of everything mind, which again is a place that brings everything to our spiritual paths, we can learn to compassionately work with and through the things that life hands us, good or bad. And even get to the point where we can do so with an open and courageous heart and mind. So, you know, that's a few thoughts on everything mind. I like in the introduction, which was written by Ken Wilber, he talks about everything mind as being another way of saying Buddha mind or Christ consciousness, universal mind, Brahman, you know, something like that. So I dug that as well. So I kind of like that people can take it and put their own spin on it, which is similar to Indie Spirituals, my first book,

you know, it's kind of what does it mean to you, you know, take it and run with it. I have my own ideas, but I really like when people kind of take something and make it their own. There was a lot in what you just said there. I think the part about compartmentalizing is so true, not just in spirituality, but I think in all aspects of my life. I think that for me, as I became more comfortable being who I was, wherever I was, and bringing all the parts of me to wherever I was, the better off I was. to wherever I was, the better off I was. And that always takes courage. I mean, it happened today, I was, I was sitting somewhere and somebody came by and was like, Oh, you know, what are you reading? And I had your book. And I was like, how do I show him this book? You know, it's like, it's just some passerby. It's a place I eat all the time. And I thought, why not, you know, just show him the book. And he's like, Oh, man, I really like that. And, you know, so it's just taking that little bit of chance to be open about who we are. And I love the way that you blend music.

You know, you're into hardcore, you're into hip hop, you're into punk rock. How do you blend that with what we traditionally think of as incense and sandals and prayer beads, right? That all comes together right in the center of your life. Yeah, it's all part, like I said, everything, my man, it's all part of the spiritual path. Uh, and, and that's really wonderful, uh, for me at least, and many others I talked to kind of approach life with this open, uh, attitude because when we're not closing ourselves off, spiritually speaking, you know, when we're not closing ourselves off, spiritually speaking, when we're not only

having these designated times of formal practice, which those times are important, I don't mean to take anything away from them. But when we get up from the cushion and we are bringing that practice with us out into the world rather than leaving it there, then we're making ourselves available to spiritual experiences at any time. And I'm using the word spiritual, but we could replace that with life experiences. But experiencing them in a way where we're fully there for them in the moment. And as I write about in this book and in my last book, I've had those experiences at Slayer concerts

and Motorhead concerts and Naughty by Nature concerts and skateboarding. Naughty by Nature. Yeah, man. Oh, yeah, Naughty by Nature. That's right. Yeah, man. So it's like, because I'm open to it.

So you never know when something's going to hit. And I find it a much more exciting and skillful kind of way of living. We're going to circle back to some of those topics in a minute. I want to ask you a question because this comes up to me a lot. And it's sort of the logical brain working, right? And that's usually not the best way to try and approach spiritual items. But every once in a while when I hear this, it's all connected, like it's all God, right? Let's just use the word God because it's easy. God imbues everything, is everywhere. Then there's a part of me that occasionally goes, well, if it's everywhere, it's kind of like, well, then nothing is more special than anything else.

It's sort of like if everything's a high priority, nothing's a high priority. And I just sometimes get my brain kind of gets hung up on that idea. And I just think it's a, I just bring it up as one of those areas that I kind of wander into intellectually where I go, well, if that's the case, is anything, is any of it sacred if it's all sacred? See, and to me, it's all sacred and none of it is. It's kind of like Thich Nhat Hanh, again, going back to him, would say, no coming, no going, no birth, no death. It all is and it all isn't.

And that's what I appreciate from Nagarjuna, the old Buddhist philosopher, when he brought to the table the two truths, the truth of the absolute and the truth of the relative. And the relative is this form level where we're doing, you know, this intellectual thinking and it's life, it's life stuff. And it's just as true as the ultimate truth. That's why there are two truths. But understanding that that's only half of the truth. And the other half of the truth, where we know in Buddhism, they don't usually use the word God. Some Buddhists do, but

they might say Buddha mind, or we could call it Dharmakaya, whatever. Everything mind, if we wanted to. Right, exactly. Right, right. But underlying this form experiences, relative experience, form experiences, relative experience, is this all just suchness, this isness, this everything mind. But again, it's something you can't intellectualize. That's the thing. Like they say nirvana, for example, a lot of teachers will save it as the extinction of all notions about nirvana. You can't talk about it. You can't think about it because once you do, you're bringing your own lens into it. And that's not what it is.

It's the polar opposite of that. So it's so tricky to talk about these things. Really, it comes down to the experience, having your own direct experience. it comes down to the experience, having your own direct experience. And that's why I write in this book about cultivating what I would call the path of direct experience. But then even going beyond that, because an experience is still just an experience, but it goes even deeper than that. It is really quite the rabbit hole once you step foot into this path. But finding some humor and lightheartedness as well, especially because I do the same thing, man. I will intellectualize stuff all day long. And that's actually for me been part of my problem. I have had a very hard time throughout the years making that journey

from the head down to the heart and combining the two into a place of heart mind. And on a good day, man, sometimes I'm kind of there and that's great. But on other days, I will still be reading things and intellectualizing it. And even though I've had some experiences, which for me have kind of shown a truth deeper than we can really put into words, I still want it to make sense. That's the nature of being human. The mind wants to understand. We want to figure things out.

And there's nothing wrong with that. It is what it is. And now, back to the interview with Chris Grasso. I've been interested lately in the concept that comes from Hinduism, that there are four different ways that we sort of approach everything mind, or enlightenment, or non-dual consciousness, or the Godhead. And it recognizes that some people do it through more of a devotional method. Some people do it through more of an intellectual method. Some people do it through more of a devotional method. Some people do it through more of an intellectual method. Some people do it through more of a service method. Right. And I find that very comforting to me that there's different ways.

I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer.

We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you. And the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us tonight. How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir.

Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really. Yeah, Really. No Really. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The forces shaping markets and the economy are often hiding behind a blur of numbers. So that's why we created The Big Take from Bloomberg Podcasts, to give you the context you need to make sense of it all. Every day in just 15 minutes, we dive into one global business story that matters. You'll hear from Bloomberg journalists like Matt Levine. A lot of this meme stock stuff is, I think, embarrassing to the SEC. Amanda Mull, who writes our Business Week Buying power column. Very few companies who go viral are like totally prepared for what that means. And Zoe Tillman, senior legal reporter. Courts are not supposed to decide elections.

Courts are not really supposed to play a big role in choosing our elected leaders. It's for the voters to decide. Follow the Big Take podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. where I know it can be limiting, but I think it's been better for me to recognize that's a valid way to approach truth and that I shouldn't, you know, try and force it aside so, so much sometimes. But like you, I think, and it may be the drug addict in me, right? That like, I want the experience. I want to feel it, damn it. Right? Like, you know, I want to feel it. I love that you brought that up because I wrote a little about that in my first book, but,

you know, people are often surprised. They're like, do you do yoga? And it's like, well, what kind of yoga? Like you just said, there's these four branches and many more if we're going to go deep into Patanjali's teachings. But no, I personally don't do the posturing yoga, asana yoga. I don't have any problem with it. I just don't do the posturing yoga, asana yoga. I don't have any problem with it. I just don't do it. But I very much would consider myself a bhakti practitioner, which is the devotional path as well as the jnana yogi, which is the intellectual part.

But again, that goes back to the intellect versus the heart and trying to find the balance between the two. But yeah, man, there's so many different paths and practices and wisdom traditions and on and on. But that's the beautiful thing is that there is a way for literally anyone to find their own quote unquote spiritual way in this world. In the introduction, I write about a friend of mine, Chris Stedman, who's an atheist. And he wrote a really wonderful book called Faithiest, in which he talks about the importance in his life of finding a way to work with people that do have a faith, regardless of what it is, but meeting them in a place where they can come together and serve humanity for the greater good. And to me, I know Chris wouldn't call that spiritual, but to me

just, you know, cause that's the context in which I kind of view life from, I would very much call that spiritual. And, and I think that's wonderful, man. Like, I don't think you necessarily have to, you know, have a formal God or religious practice in order to be spiritual. I mean, that's stating the obvious because religion and spirituality are two different things. But I really do believe people can cultivate a spiritual lifestyle by first exploring what their passions are, you know, and then building it from there. I think that's a great way of going about it, especially with a lot of the younger people I talk with who are skeptical and have cynicism towards spirituality. And I think that that is a very healthy thing to a certain extent, to be cynical, but still to keep an open mind. And so with a lot of younger people, if I'm talking into college, for example,

that's maybe a way I would approach it with them. Ask them, where is your passion? And say, for example, it's an art student. Awesome. There's so much spirituality in art. Just being there, completely present while you're creating this beautiful piece of whatever form of media, art media it is, again, to me, that's way spiritual. And it doesn't mean you have Krishna Das on in the background, though you very much could. Or you could have Slayer on. Hey, man, yes, you could. And you might. In my case, there's a good chance.

But actually, it's funny. My daughter and I, not to get way off topic, but my wife and daughter and I were looking at this YouTube video the other day of I think it was like Star Wars, a house that had decorated their lights to coincide with Star Wars. And I saw someone also did like a Christmas Slayer thing. And so I put that on and it was my eight-year-old stepdaughter's first introduction to Slayer. And she was so unimpressed. It was hilarious. But you know, what are you going to do? Then

she wanted to hear, there's this acapella band, Pentatonix. And she's like, let's watch that one. And she got all happy. So, you know, whatever. It is what it is. To each their own. So that leads into, not the story about your daughter, but the part before that leads into this idea of spiritual practice. And in your book, there's a lot of different spiritual practices. And frankly, there's lots of spiritual practices littered all over the place, everywhere you turn these days, lots of different approaches. One of the things that I've noticed in people that I work with and doing coaching in different things is that when there is ambiguity and there's not a clear plan or a clear path of action, it's very easy to not do anything. And so I'm curious, from your perspective, how do people who want to engage in

spiritual practice, you know, want to do some of these things, how do they map out a plan for themselves? How do they come up with an approach? When, where, how, how much, how often, how long? I mean, I think these are all really valid questions for the people who are doing things like listening to podcasts and going, well, I'd like to be more spiritual, but what does that mean? And I couldn't agree more with you. So the important thing for me in the way I write and teach is that even though I know we're talking a lot about Buddhism, I'm not Buddhist, I'm not Hindu, I'm not Christian. I have a great reverence for these wonderful wisdom traditions, but I don't classify myself as any of them. I have my practice and I draw

from these traditions. I mean, if anything, you could call me, I suppose, interfaith, but I've never been a big fan of labels. So for me, not being a teacher of a specific lineage, it is important for me to lay out a bunch of different options for people because I know a lot of people that read my books are newer to the spiritual path. Some of them I've been pleasantly surprised are in their 50s, 60s, 70s. They came up with the Ram Dass counterculture movement, Alan Watts and all of and all of those guys. And they're resonating with this material and that's been awesome. But a lot of the people are newer. And what I find with a lot of people I talk to is they've been very churned off to the idea of spiritual practice

because they have this misperception that it's dogmatic, it's rigid, it's, you know, I have to do this, this, and this. Now, if you're going to embark on a certain lineage, absolutely, that might be the case. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that whatsoever. I have wonderful friends that do very much call themselves Buddhist or Christian or Hindu, you know, and that's great. That's what works for them. And I deeply honor that. But for me, what's important is really to allow these people that are newer to have a feeling of freedom as they are exploring. Because I know for

me, when I was younger, being told what to do, oh, that was the worst thing in the world. So I want these people to feel open and free. And I know that we'll often hear teachers of older generations or even maybe younger generations to say that, you know, you don't want to hang out in quote unquote, the spiritual buffet line. And to a certain extent, I absolutely agree. However, I think in the very beginning, that is a valuable place to spend a little time in. Because if you're just going to jump in, you know, head over heels into one specific tradition without exploring the others, you know, to get a little taste, how do you know for sure that's the one? I mean, maybe, okay, you've had this really deep vision or calling. And right, if that's the case, go for it.

But if it's not, then spend a little time exploring, you know, get to know what each tradition is teaching, what they're not teaching, get to know their practices. And then from there, I think you can make a more educated decision to move forward. So, but to go back, you know, all the way back to your question, it's hard for me to kind of answer that since that's, again, going back to I'm not a teacher of a specific lineage. So what I can say for myself, the most important thing in my life and has been for many years is having a dedicated meditation practice, something that I do almost every day. There are certain days where I just can't get to it if I'm traveling or whatnot, but that's part of the not being rigid, you know, is understanding that some days

things, life happens and you just can't get to it. But on those days I can use what's called mantra practice, which is the repetition of either a sacred name or a sacred mantra or phrase that means something to me, whether it's taken from Buddhism or Christianity or whatever the case. So there's always a way to practice every single day. And that's part of what I was saying earlier, where if we have this formal practice, that's great and that's very important. But it shouldn't for us stop right there when we get up from the cushion or leave the yoga studio. You know, to me, if I'm washing

my hands and I am aware that right now I'm washing my hands, that is just as sacred a form of meditation as formally sitting down because I'm there in that moment with that experience. And that to me is meditation. So that's the one thing I would really recommend anyone, regardless of what tradition you are or are not interested in, is to take up a meditation practice. And there are so many different kinds of meditation. There's no shortage of ways to find ones that will work for you in your time. There's walking meditations, guided meditations, breath meditations. I mean, just Google meditation or hit YouTube up and you'll have no shortage of options to choose from. So I do have a daily meditation practice. It's something I finally managed to build after a couple decades of being intermittent. But I find that like, well, what am I going to do? Am I going to do a breath meditation? Am I going to do a sound meditation?

Am I going to, you know, do a guided meditation? I find myself almost sometimes getting hung up on what the practice could be because there's so many different meditation practices. And so for myself, I've been working on saying, okay, well, for this week, I'm going to do this kind of thing every day. So I at least know, because mid meditation, if I'm not enjoying it, I'll be like, oh, I should probably be doing X, Y, or Z instead. And I've tried to get away from that and just stick to, all right, this week, I'm going to, I'm going to see what happens, what the experience is of doing something like transcendental meditation for a week versus,. And that helps me to be a little bit less all over the place. I think that's awesome. And that's a way to keep it fresh

too, because I know a lot of people, you know, meditation can get boring if we're going to be honest about it. It can be ecstatic. It can be boring. I mean, you'll run the gamut of emotions, but I think that's a really wonderful way of keeping it fresh is doing that. I know when I go to the gym, a while back, I found myself getting really bored. So I started reading a bit more on new routines and new regimens. And I found something that really works for me where each week, you know, it's upper body is the focus or lower body, though you're still bringing each portion in every week. But there's a schedule each week.

Each week it mixes up a bit and I made sure to incorporate different exercises for same body parts. And that way it keeps it interesting and it makes it easier for me to get myself back to the gym. And I can see how that would be very much the same for meditation as well. So I think that's great, man. Yeah, I think it's trying to find that balance between a routine that becomes a boring, you know, like, just drudge your way through it because you have to thing. And the other side, which is that

there's no real clear plan. Because like I said, for myself, and for lots of people that I work with, that's the biggest thing is we don't, we're not consistent with what we do, because we don't have a consistent plan. We anytime there's ambiguity, I think procrastination wins. Right? So yeah, I do the same thing exercise wise about every six months. I'm like, all right, I've kind of had it to this, like, and I find something new to do, but I try and find like, okay, that's what I'm going to do. And, and I'm going to do it according to X, Y, or Z plan or have that. And that's, I don't think everybody's that way, but I certainly am like, I need some degree of here's what it is each day. Cause if I have to figure out

what I'm going to do at the gym, in addition to get myself to the gym, boy, it's easy to, there's a lot of ways to, there's a lot of places to end up that aren't the gym on that journey. Absolutely. Right. Right. And so we're going to take this back to spirituality. That's why to me, I find that in, you know, it's, it's been over 12 years, uh, since I stepped foot onto the path that, um, in those 12 years, I still have not felt compelled to pick like one specific lineage, one wisdom tradition and stick with that because I, I just find a lot of enjoyment in the teachings from all of these, uh, various traditions. And it's not that I think they're all saying the same thing because they're

obviously not. There are certainly plenty of places where they intersect and that's always a neat dichotomy to see happening. But that too keeps spirituality fresh for me. And then not just keeping it from the teachings, from the traditions, but, you know,

again, bringing it out into the world when I step on my skateboard or at a Slayer concert or wherever, you know, like at playing My Little Ponies with my daughter, you know, whatever I'm doing, like just being there present with it. And yeah, man, it makes life really, uh, really pretty incredible. We would be remiss to not talk about your Motorhead story, particularly with Lemmy's passing. You know, it's just timely in a bunch of ways, and it leads us into the topic of interdependence, which was one of the big ones that I wanted to hit in this interview. So can you tell us the Motorhead Lemmy story and the spiritual learning that you got from that?

For sure, man. It is very timely. Of course, rest in peace to Lemmy, a metal god among gods, for sure. God among gods, for sure. I was very heartbroken to hear the news of his passing yesterday, though I can't say completely shocked because his health has been deteriorating in recent years. But yeah, man, so I got to see them. It's actually, I've only seen Motorhead twice,

and this was the second time I got to see them a few years ago. And it was really great because I had a photo pass because I was covering it for my website and for those who don't know, a photo pass means I get to go literally right up to the front of the stage and this is at a huge event. So, you know, it was really a well done production

and so there I am, you know, and the lights go out and Motorhead Chants start and next thing I know, you know, the lights come on and literally like a foot in front of me on the stage, there's Lemmy. I, you know, I positioned myself amongst, there was a bunch of other photographers, but I positioned myself very early, like right in front of his microphone. And so, you know, I was, I was pretty starstruck, man. Like that doesn't happen to me often, but this is Lemmy and a big deal for me and a big influence musically. So it was like a minute, two minutes, something like that into their song.

And he's playing this really beautiful Rickenbacker bass. And I actually posted the picture on my Facebook page yesterday from this portion of the book I was writing about. And it was this really beautiful wooden leaf inlay. It was a version of the Rickenbacker I'd never seen him play before. And so they're tearing it up as Motorhead does. And I don't know, man, my thoughts just naturally started gravitating towards the Buddhist teachings of interdependence, what Thich Nhat Hanh would call interbeing. And I started to think about this base and then I started to look deeper at it as Thich Nhat Hanh would teach us to do. And I started thinking about the fact that that base came from a tree.

And then it just kind of went off from there to thinking about how the tree had to have sunshine to nourish it to grow and there had to be rain in order to help the tree. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really Know Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor we got the answer will space junk block your cell signal the astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer we talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth plus does tom cruise really do

his own stunts his stuntman reveals the answer And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman.

And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really. Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, really. Go to really, no, really.com and register to win

$500 a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called really no, really. And you can find it on the I heart radio app on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Regrow and all of these things that had to interbe with one another to create that the tree, which would then become the base. But then my mind started also thinking about how not only that, but then there had to be these craftsmen at the Rickenbacker factory that created the base from hand. And their parents had to meet in the first place and consummate and, you know, in order to have them. And then their parents had to have them and Lemmy's parents had to have him.

And just this literally this whole interbeing of life, how all things are interbeing at all times, both on the relative form level and the absolute. You know, it's all happening together at the same time. It's this beautiful dance of, uh, the Hindus would call it the Leela, you know, the dance of life, uh, all unfolding before us. But it, it really, I know it's kind of cliche to say, you know, it's all one man and, or namaste, but, but there's a really deep truth to the fact that it is all one. It really is all interconnected at these subatomic levels. It's like a quantum soup from which all these form or relative things arise and they're all inter being, you know, think about our bodies within these kind of skin bags as Alan Watts would call them. You know, there's all these organs that are

inter being, there's atoms and molecules and cells that all these things that are just inter being with one another in order for our bodies to function on a daily basis. And then we're showing up and we're doing whatever we're doing in the world and it's having its effect on others. And it's just really quite a dance, man, quite a dance. And that's how I find I live life today is looking more deeply and having these experiences. Again, like I said, if I'm at a Motorhead concert or on

my skateboard, or I also write at one point in the book about how I love to go out running and I'll often look at houses, you know, and traditionally we'll see a house or a building and see it as this kind of solid entity. But if we look deeper, you know, the house is a composite of But if we look deeper, the house is a composite of wood and nails and appliances and utensils and all of these things that had to come together in order to make a house or a table or a computer. All of these things have to interbe in order to make these things. An acorn tree, you know, like an acorn had to fall into or be planted in the earth and there had to be rain and, you know, and it all had to come together to create this tree. It's just, that's life. It's all interbeing. And so when we start to really contemplate that more and have that experience and look deeper,

this separate sense of self that most of us have begins to dissipate a bit. And in my experience, the greatest source of my suffering was that I believed I was this isolated, separate self cut off from the rest of the world, very lonely, very scared, very afraid. But the more I have these experiences and this deeper understanding of interbeing, life really is a much more peaceful, flowing, and friendly experience. It is far from perfect. And there are terrible things that happen on a daily basis, not to me specifically, but I'm not saying that it stops the rape and the terrorism and all of the terrible things that do happen on an hourly or a minute-by-minute basis in this world. It's all still there. But there are also these other beautiful things that are happening and so

that tends to be a bit more of my experience and uh it helps me to be a better person in this world and offer a better version of myself to others yeah i love that tracing something back like looking at something and thinking of everything that had to happen for that thing to come. I mean, if we spend an hour talking about everything that had to happen, well, we could spend far longer than that for you and I to have this conversation and for someone out there in the world to be listening to it right now. And I talk on the show a lot about negative thought patterns and rumination. And one of the things that I do is I do these sort of the things that that i do is i i do these sort of concentration exercises that give my brain something else to do besides spiral in their normal morose depressive paths and and that's another great one that i found is to do that sort of inner being exercise of pick something around

me and start thinking about okay what all had to have happened? It gives my brain something to do besides churn in negativity. It's interesting enough that it keeps my brain hooked, which is, I think is one of the really important ways to stop negative thought patterns is you got to give your brain something to do. And at the same time, there's a spiritual truth behind it that comes through. And so that's another one of the things that I really like to do. I don't do it as often, but it's a really powerful way for me to get out of whatever spot I'm stuck in mentally. Oh man, that's great. Yeah, I completely agree. And that's why even things like mantras as well, that's often referred to as mind protection. Because isn't it crazy, man, that our

thoughts every day, I forgot the statistics, you might even know, but it's insane. We have all of these thousands of thoughts every day, tens of thousands of thoughts. And it's something like not even one or 2% of them are different than what we were thinking yesterday. And the majority of those thoughts are rooted in negativity. Isn't that crazy, man? And we'd never ever get tired of it. We might say we're fed up with this or that, but if we really were, why aren't we doing something about it? I think it's because it's hard to do.

Sure. I mean, like mantras are a good one, I think, depending on your brain type. For me, if I'm really rooted in something, in some sort of rumination, it's like, I think of the mantra like four times and then I'm right back to what I was doing. And then I'm back to them. I mean, it's, it's not sticky enough sometimes. And sure. That's why I find these sort of positive concentration games, like the alphabet gratitude game, where you try and go through the alphabet and think of something you're grateful for that starts with a or you think of a song that starts with a that you love or those things are sticky enough for my brain and there's enough like positive emotion in them usually that if i just

keep sticking with that for a little while i find myself on the other side for a little while anyway right and then it's then it, none of these things are like, you know, it's like, it's funny with all this spiritual stuff, I've been thinking a lot lately about how none of it is ever done. It's like going to, the gym analogy is really good because I cannot go to the gym now and have that be good for three years, right?

Like, I just gotta keep going, you know, my teeth, I gotta keep brushing them every day for them to stay clean. I think that I'm starting to accept it more and not fight it. That these spiritual practices, these little things I do to keep my brain and my heart and my emotions in the right place, they're a persistent part of what I need to do to be happy in the world or content. Yeah. be happy in the world or content. Yeah. And I, and I love that you said that because it comes back to me to my passion in the way I teach is finding what does work for you and in a way that you will

be able to stick with it. You know, whether we're talking about the gym or spiritual practice, like that's why it's so important for me and the way I write, you know, to offer a bunch of different things because I want people to be aware of what's out there, be able to get a little sample, a little taste of this practice or that practice because absolutely, man, mantra might do it for like 10 seconds. They'll be like, nope, not for me. And that's perfectly fine, man. That's why it's so great that there's so many different means and methods in the world for everything, for life. It's really great that we have all these wonderful options at our fingertips. And I do want to say, I love that alphabet gratitude game. And I find that that's a great one for me. I often will try to use that when I'm going to bed. Not only does it help me fall asleep, but helps me fall asleep on a positive note.

Because man, what better time for our mind to really get worked up in the negative when it's bedtime, you know? So I love that one. Well, we are at the end of our time, even though I've got about 15 more questions. But I'm going to end it with a quote that you had in the book that's not yours, but you talk about it. And I just thought it was such a great quote. And I'm not going to be able to pronounce the guy's name correctly. But it says, if self-centeredness produced happiness, we'd all be enlightened by now.

By Chagdit Tolko Rinpoche? Yes, actually, that's very close. Right, absolutely. Yeah. You've got a lot of stuff written around that. But that quote really stuck out to me. Like, whoa, that's true. Because we're pretty good at that.

Aren't we? And here we are. I think I've got that down. Well, I'll put links to the book in the show notes. It was a very enjoyable read. Like you said, I think it's a very accessible, real book about spirituality. And that was the one, I guess, one more thing. Because I was going to, I often ask people, like, what does spirituality mean?

And it's something I think about because I think it can be a turnoff of a word for so many people. But you've got, you had a definition that I thought was really good. And maybe we'll end with this, which is spirituality is an inner journey, one that takes us beneath the surface of who and what we think we are and guides each of us home to our truest self.

And that's just my two cents, but most importantly, find out what it is for you. Yep. What I love about that is there's just, A,. But most importantly, find mean, it's your, what's your true self about uncovering that? It's just about, for me, spirituality is just about going deeper inside of ourselves instead of always outside. But I just love that phrase you had there. Thanks, man.

I'm glad you brought that in because, yeah, that's, I think that actually sums up like the overview of the book quite nicely. So cool, man. Well, thanks so much for coming on, Chris. I appreciate it. I always love talking with you. We could probably have another, like I said, a few hours of this, but we'll, uh, be since, since the other Chris is not with us this time, he would be giving me the cut it sign. Yeah. Well, Eric, thank you, man. It is. It's really a pleasure. I enjoy the show. I am a fan, so it means a lot to be back on.

And thank you for your time and having me as a guest. Greatly appreciate it. My pleasure. Take care, Chris. You too. Bye. you can learn more about this podcast and chris grosso at one you feed.net slash chris and the number two that's chris two thanks