The One You Feed - Chris Grosso - The Indie Spiritualist

Episode Date: September 16, 2014

This week we talk to Chris GrossoChris Grosso is an author, independent culturist, spiritual aspirant, recovering addict, speaker, and professor with en*theos Academy. He writes for Origin magazine, Mantra Yoga + Health magazine and created the popular hub for all things alternative, independent, and spiritual with TheIndieSpiritualist.com. Chris continues the exploration with his debut book titled The Indie Spiritualist.  In This Interview Chris and I Discuss...The One You Feed parable.How asking is the best way to get a yes.Having Danny Trejo pointing a steak knife at him. What the word spiritual means.Don't believe things on faith, try them out for yourself.Eddie Van Halen solo and Chris's mystical experience.How spiritual experience can happen anywhere, it does not have to be a "sacred" place.Chris Forbes and his love of Air Supply.No mud, no lotus.Becoming great because of our pain.Hiding from pain with drugs and alcohol.How his parents were his first teacher of compassion.Johnny Cash, punk rock, and hard-core music.Chris Grosso LinksThe Indie SpiritualistChris Grosso on TwitterChris Grosso on FacebookBuy The Indie Spiritualist Book  Some of our most popular interviews that you might also enjoy:Kino MacGregorStrand of OaksMike Scott of the WaterboysTodd Henry- author of Die EmptyRandy Scott HydeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You could be a skateboarder, you could be a punk rocker, or a hip hopper, or a yoga practitioner. Even someone that wears a suit and tie, and to me it has nothing to do with outside. It really is all about inside. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking.

Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction. How they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers

to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor. What's in the museum of failure? And does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason

Bobblehead. The Really No Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Our guest today is Chris Grosso, a public speaker, freelance writer, recovering addict, and best-selling author of Indie Spiritualist, a no-bullshit exploration of spirituality. Chris is also a touring musician and is currently working on a second book due in 2015.

Here's the interview. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks so much for having me on. Here's the interview. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks so much for having me on. It's a pleasure. Yeah, it's great to get you on here. We tried this a couple weeks ago and had maybe our only technical difficulty in about 40 interviews, so you drew the short straw there, but we got through it. We did, and it's great to connect a few weeks later. So again, very happy to be here with you. So our podcast is based on the parable of two wolves, where there's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson. And he says, in life,

there's two wolves inside of us. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love. And the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you. Wow, well, it's a great parable. Um, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is I resonate with both wolves, you know, um, the majority, not the majority, but a better part of my life, uh, is spent or was spent lost in active, uh, drug and alcohol addiction. So I was certainly feeding that wolf, you know, the one of fear. Not so much the hatred or greed aspect, but definitely the fear.

So, you know, that was the wolf that resonated for me. The thing was, though, I also had periods of sobriety in that time. It was probably about maybe 12 or more years that I was really a full-on addict. But the thing was, during that time, I would get these periods of sobriety, which were often a year, maybe even a little more. And during that time, I was feeding the other wolf, the good wolf and the one that was healthier in nature. But feeding it, I guess, metaphorically, kind of processed foods rather than organic. And so you, as you said, spent a lot of your life in active addiction. You clearly had an interest in spiritual things throughout that period. You got sober and then

you started your website called The Indie Spiritualist, which then has become a book. What is an Indie Spiritualist for our listeners? Okay, so Indie Spiritualism, it ended up, you know, a lot of people actually look at me and they see a heavily tattooed person with big holes in their ears, and they often associate that with the Indie Spiritualist vibe, I guess you could say, but that really, for me, has nothing to do with it. It really is more about people that are looking into their hearts and honoring what's in there, honoring their truth. And you could be a skateboarder,

you could be a punk rocker, or a hip hopper, or a yoga practitioner. Even someone that wears a suit and tie and has a nine to five job, to me, it has nothing to do with outsides. It really is all about insides. And I think that's something that's resonated with a lot of people, because it's a pretty unifying theme. When did you start the Indie Spiritualist website? How long ago was that? I think it was in roughly 2010, 2009, 2010, somewhere in that area. So yeah, about four years ago, I would say. Okay, you've interviewed quite a cast of characters through there. You've got a lot of great interviews in there. Yeah, well, thanks.

You know, the weird thing was, especially in the beginning, I don't know how I was getting approved for these interviews. My friend Jessica, who did a show that just ended last year, it was a great radio show called Where's My Guru, and she would interview

some really wonderful spiritual teachers as well, and people would ask her, and people have asked me separately, you know, how do you get to interview these people? And we both had the same answer, which was just simply, we ask. Exactly. You know, right, you just have to ask and put it out there. I definitely haven't interviewed everyone I've hoped to, but like I was saying, especially in the beginning, I remember just shortly after I started the website, um, I think it was like my second or third interviews were both on a day I went up to Worcester, Massachusetts, and I'd scheduled Danny Trejo, who's the actor from Machete and, you know, a million other movies. Um, and George Romero,

who's the director for Night of the Living Dead and, you know, all million other movies. And George Romero, who's the director for Night of the Living Dead and, you know, all those incredible zombie films. And I got to interview them back to back in person. They were doing a horror convention up in Worcester, Mass. And I was so nervous. I remember just like, you know, because it was I'd been interviewing people for a while, but I had taken a very, very long break. And, um, and most of the interviews I'd been getting back into were over the phone, but these were in person. And, uh, and I just remember thinking like, how I just started this website, how am I able to interview these people? And again, you know, really I asked and it came through and the Danny Trejo thing,

just a quick, funny story. I haven't told this in a long time, but now that I'm thinking about it, it came to mind was we, we did it in an Uno pizzeria and we were sitting there and I was, you know, kind of nervous, but kind of also like, wow, this is Danny Trejo. I love this dude. And, uh, and so I was letting him know, um, you know, I'm probably not going to ask him most of the same questions he's used to. I like to do things a little different. And he looked at me and he's like, all right, that's cool. No problem. He's like, and if I don't like the questions and we had silverware at the table and steak knives, he picks up the steak knife and he jokingly like motions, he's going to stab me. And the one hand I'm laughing, but on the other hand, I'm like, this is Danny Trejo. And you know, maybe he could really stab me, but it went amazing.

And, uh, and that was incredible experience because we were supposed to only have 15 minutes and we totally hit it off. And we ended up doing like an hour long interview and it was just really awesome. So anyway, sorry to get off on a tangent, but that was just a really fun memory. No, that's a, that's a great story. And I think that, that idea of just asking is so relevant in general to just – Yeah. Because I think it's one of those things that a lot of people, we just don't ask. We tend to not ask, whether it's fear of rejection or just not thinking about it. And that's kind of been the way with us.

I mean, we've started to have some success as of late. But when we started, it was just, you know, how many podcasts are out there? There's no end to them. And, uh, and, but you just ask people and yeah, I get a lot of no answers or no's and, but I get enough yeses that are, that are good. And we just keep going. Yeah. And I think with people like yourself and your program and myself and what I'm doing, when, when you're doing it from a place of integrity and passion, you know, and trying to make an impact in the world, that's what matters most. You know, I don't mean to speak for you, but it sounds like you might share that in common where it's okay that people say no.

You're not doing it only, you know, to get X amount of views and whatever else might come from that. You're doing it for the love. You know, I know it sounds a little cliche, but, you know, I believe that's, for me at least, that's a very sincere truth. And so when you get those no's, it's okay. You know, you get no's and then you move on and you get to interview other people that not only impact you, but you know will impact your listeners, hopefully.

And that in and of itself is really what makes it worth it. Yeah, exactly. So one of the questions that I ask guests from time to time, and it's something I'm always curious about, is what does the word spirituality mean to you? So you use it in your title. It's a fairly nebulous word, but I'm kind of curious what it means to you. Yeah, you know, and it's funny you ask that, because as we were talking before we started the interview, I'm working on my second book right now and, and actually talk quite a bit about spirituality because it's such an open ended broad word.

And for me, just, I simply say it's about waking up. You know, I, I just do it really easy. It's about waking up to the fact that there are deeper truths happening than what most of us have been conditioned, you know, to believe as an ultimate truth, this physical manifest world, which is certainly part of the truth.

But there is another side of the truth, which, you know, in Buddhism, they would call it ultimate or absolute reality, the unmanifest, the dharmakaya, or in mystic Christianity, the Godhead. But that's what it is to me. It's about just waking up to these deeper truths in our lives, you know, that there's more than meets the eye in life. But one thing I always tell people when I'm speaking or doing workshops or even writing is that that's my experience. You know, I always encourage people to become their own spiritual scientists, you know, to find out what spirituality truly is for them, you know, because we are the only ones that will ever know what's really happening inside of us. You know, we're the only ones that ever feel what we're feeling. I can tell you what I'm feeling, but you know, you're not going to experience it.

feeling. I can tell you what I'm feeling, but you're not going to experience it. So I think it's important to learn from those who've walked the path before us, and at least in the traditions that resonate for us, but to really honor our internal guidance and what that's telling us and where that's leading us. Now, that said, I was just having coffee a few weeks ago with someone named Chris Stedman, and he's an atheist. He's the humanist chaplain down at Yale University, and he is a phenomenal writer and author of a book called Faithiest. And the book is about finding common ground with religious believers or spiritual people. And I will tell you that Chris is one of the most spiritual dudes I have had the

pleasure of chatting with recently. And he would probably cringe at that because I know he's not a fan of that word. And that's cool. To me, words are kind of, you know, we get caught up in the semantics of them. I don't know, like, you know, God is a very loaded word for people. For me, it's not, but I understand for a lot of people it is. But, you know, here's Chris, an atheist who has no interest in, you know, organized religion or most spirituality, though he did study, I think some kind of Zen was his undergraduate study. And, you know, he's concerned about how can we come together as humanity to make things better on this planet? You know, how can we serve one another?

What unifies us rather than sets us apart? And that's a very spiritual thing to me. So, again, you know, spirituality is whatever we make of it, and for me it's just waking up. I like that, the just waking up piece. That's a, that's a good one. The one I've been using is one, one of our earlier guests had Kevin Griffin. And he said it was, spirituality is just the realization that happiness comes from the inside, which I was like, Oh, that's a really, that's a pretty, pretty simple and straightforward approach too. So I like that one also. So you're a, you're a musician and you, you love music. You,

some of your music's available in your, in your book and online and you, you interview musicians and you tell a story about a near mystical experience that you had while watching a particular rock band. Can you tell us that story? That's the Van Halen one, I think? Yeah, okay. So, yeah, that was just, boy, years ago. My brother and I had gotten free tickets, or I think my parents did,

to a Van Halen concert out here, and they had just reunited with David Lee Roth, which I was super excited about. So, you know, we had free tickets and we're like, yeah, let's go check it out. And so we went and it was a lot of fun and I was sober at the time. So I just should clear that up. But there was a point where the band left the stage and Eddie Van Halen was doing like this incredible just 20 minute guitar solo by himself. And it, I was just so captivated by it. Um, it became a, an incredibly transcendental experience for me. Um, I, you know, I had, I had similar experiences to this in meditation leading up to it, but never one really just in a complete waking state,

and especially with so many people around me and just a very loud environment. But, you know, it's hard to put into words, but I mean, it was basically everything tuned out. All I could hear was his guitar, like the noise of the audience around me was gone. And it was just note for note what he was playing. And I was just locked in on his fingers, moving on his fretboard. And then it was kind of like, even that started to fade away. And at that

point, I, you know, I was standing there and I literally, my body started to let go of itself. And, and that's what kind of snapped me out of it because I caught myself starting to fall into the row of seats in front of me. And I remember, like I said, I've been feeling a little embarrassed, but I looked around and nobody noticed because everyone else was just completely enthralled in this ridiculous solo he was doing.

But I write about that in the book because part of, I write about that in the book because part of what I talk about is that a lot of people have a limited kind of perspective on what spirituality is supposed to be, what it's supposed to sound like and look like. And I personally am a firm believer, based on direct experience in numerous different occasions, that if we're open to it, you know, we're able to have these experiences at all times. It's not about the experience per se, but, you know, I think that's just a nice little motivator that keeps us going on the path, lets us know that we're on the right track, that we do have some of these experiences.

But again, it's not about them. It's just, you know, they're a nice side effect, we could say. Right. That experience you described at the Van Halen concert, that sort of overall rapture overtakes my co-host here when he hears air supply. So... Oh, there we go. Nice. um nice I'm Jason Alexander.

And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor we got the answer will space junk block your cell signal the astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer we talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth plus does tom cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's gonna

drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. God bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really.

Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason Bobblehead. It's called Really, No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So you have a phrase, I think it might be one of the chapters in the book, called, No Mud, No Lotus. That's actually, I thieved the hell out of that one. I hope I acknowledged it, but Thich Nhat Hanh, that's a thing,

I don't know if it originated with him, but that's where I became familiar with it. He often uses that in his Dharma talks, no mud, no lotus. And that's something that deeply resonated for me, you know, in my own life, having, you know, gone through the cycles of addiction I did. But recognizing that it was, you know, similar to the lotus blossoming through the mud, you know, that's where a lot of the grist for our spiritual mill comes from, you know, is the adverse times in our lives, you know, the times that really cause us to step back and reevaluate things. I guess I shouldn't speak for myself, but, you know, that does seem to be a pretty recurring theme in a lot of people on the spiritual path.

to be a pretty recurring theme in a lot of people on the spiritual path. But, you know, it's these experiences that, for me, inspired me to, again, it was slow in the beginning because I was only kind of skimming the surface, but later on, to really start, you know, looking at my heart and touching it and allowing myself to get raw, you know, in the process. And it's not easy work, but that was the work that I realized having gone through these mud experiences that I really needed to do in order to begin sincerely healing in my life and to not only cultivate compassion for others, but to really start with myself and to learn to love myself more so that I could truly offer that to other people. So yeah, it was through the mud experiences. Yeah, I always think that's a great point to make is that

none of the great experiences that we have are the people that we become. It tends to not be in spite of the problems we have, but because of them. Yes, right, right. And, and that, you know, the other thing too, is that a lot of people look down or not down, but you know, we're very averse to the pain and suffering in life. And I understand that it's not fun. But again, you know, these can be our great teachers, the catalysts that really propel us further in our spiritual paths. And there's a quote from Ram Dass that I absolutely love. I'll never forget the first time I read it. It was very deeply impactful for me. And he writes that suffering is the sandpaper of our incarnations. It does

its job of shaping us. And, you know, that came to me in my life years ago at a time I really needed to read it because I was severely depressed. And I'm not saying that magically made everything better, but it was a time where, you know, it was like, if all this, you know, existence, for me at least, it was just about if all this, you know, existence, for me at least, was just about pain and suffering, then what's the point? And reading that really helped to shed a different light on it for me. And that kind of opened some of the cracks that were already in my heart armor and have gone on to continue opening and widening throughout the years since.

Yeah, I agree. I think when you're in the midst of it, sometimes that idea said in the wrong way can be very patronizing, like, oh, just shut up. But said in the right way can also be very hopeful and inspiring. And I just, I love that phrase, no mud, no lotus, because it just does remind me that I can't bypass. I have a, I think we all do have a desire to just always be happy, which there's a ton of problems with that way of thinking. But one of them is if I was always happy, I wouldn't have the things that cause me to

grow and to ultimately experience life more fully. to grow and to ultimately experience life more fully. Absolutely. That's so perfect. And actually, I was just reading a quote from Wilk yesterday, I think it was. And it was, I'd say, let everything happen to you, beauty and terror, just keep going. No feeling is final. You know, so as we're going through that mud and and you know our natural tendency or at least mine was and I think a lot of humanity shares this is to not you know face the pain and not not look at it you know to for

me I would turn to drugs and alcohol for others they turn to shopping or food or sex and so on their supply maybe, maybe. And air supply, of course. But, you know, when we're not really looking at it, we're just keeping ourselves locked in this perpetual cycle of more of the same. So it's really cultivating that compassion for ourselves and learning to touch those places, you know, become directly intimate with life and all of its ups and downs, you know, that we were able, I believe, to begin to more skillfully work with those difficult times and face them. And it's not an easy thing, but, you know, it's worth it.

The pain that may come up from old wreckage of our past, that's there no matter what. So it's up to us if we want to keep, you know, pushing it down or, you know, start to allow it to come up when it, when it does and, and work through it and, and be there with it and, and hold it. Again, not fun, but what else are we going to do? You know, I guess the, the easy answer is yes, keep suppressing it. But again, it's just, it's still there. It's not going anywhere. Right. Yep. It finds a way out somewhere. Right. Yes, absolutely.

You have a series on your website called 10 Questions that you ask a variety of people. So I thought it would be fun to turn some of those back on you. Well played, sir. Well played. back on you. Well played, sir. Well played. So who or what do you attribute the person you are today to? God, I haven't done one of those interviews in literally it's been like two years. So okay, let's see. Who do I attribute the person I am today to? God, you know, the cliche, too. God, you know, the cliche, quick answer, you know, actually no one's ever asked me these. So, so really well done. Like no one's ever turned the table on me. So I've literally never really, I mean, I did think about them when I was writing them, but I've not gone back and revisited them. So, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is really my, my parents and my brother.

I have been so blessed to have, you know, this supportive family network in my life. And, you know, my parents are still together to this day, which I know is rare for a lot of people, you know, to have not gotten divorced. And, you know, a big thing for me about still having them in my life is that I know so many people that have gone through what I've gone through, or not even as bad with addiction and just done pretty bad things in their

life. And, you know, their family turns their back on them and is done with them. And my parents never did that. I mean, there was time they had to show tough love, but they never completely wrote me off. And that is something that's really huge to me and is very inspiring. And I think that was one of my great teachers regarding compassion in my life was that, you know, they didn't completely write me off. And same with my brother, you know, because I put them through so much pain and suffering in their lives. You know, they having, for them having to see me, like the number of times I'd be in the emergency room strapped down, totally incoherent. I had a seizure in front of my parents once. I was out in my driveway blackout drunk at their house one time and I had a bottle of, well, yeah, no, I was inside their house, blackout drunk,

I had a bottle of Klonopin and my dad confiscated it because the Klonopin is a benzodiazepine that you mix it with alcohol. It's just bad news all around. And they knew that. And so I took a big kitchen knife out of the drawer and went out into the driveway, holding it to my throat, threatening to kill myself if they didn't give the pills back to me. So I mean, these are just like some of the things I put them through. And, you know, here we are years later, and with a very strong relationship and bond. And even after things

like that, they never turn their back on me. So that was really big. Of course, there's many other things, but I think that's probably the biggest, to be honest. Okay. What are some of the musicians and albums that have impacted your life and in what way? And I'm going to qualify that with all time. And then I'm always interested in what people are into recently. Sure. Boy, all time. The first one that comes to mind is Johnny Cash. He's a big one for me. I have a big old cash tattoo on my arm. I went out with a friend. We took a road trip to visit his grave out in Hendersonville shortly after he died.

And we visited his grave. He's buried next to his wife, June. So just something about him and his badassery and his rawness has been big for me in my life. But, man, there's so many others. I think I've had a huge passion for punk and hardcore music and underground hip-hop. Obscure bands that I'm sure most of your listeners won't know, but bands like Dead Guy and Bloodlet and Isis and Neurosis

and the punk hardcore drone doomy scene they've been huge for me um hip-hop wise i am a huge fan of bands or groups like tribe called quest public enemy de la soul uh cannibal ox hieroglyphics um that whole crew with dell the funky and with sapien and souls of mischief um but you know then also like texas is the reason and uh sam i am and jawbox uh i'm super just eclectic towns van zant uh i don't know you know we're gonna we're gonna get off this interview and of course i'll think of like 100 bands bands that I wish I'd named, but. I'll get emails for the next three weeks from you. Like, and I forgot so-and-so and. I need you to call me back and record this so we can dub it in there.

But no, yeah, I just, I, I'm a lover of music and, uh, you know, and, and most genres. So, um, yeah. As far as recent though, actually right before you called, I saw that Souls of Mischief was a hip-hop group. Their album came out today, and it's streaming on USA Today, and I was listening to it, blown away. The state of affairs in hip-hop is a mess, which I think is no secret to real hip-hop fans.

But listening to this album, like gave me such faith again in hip hop. It's got a real laid back old school vibe. It's exactly what I think hip hop needs today. So I was really, really excited. I am really excited about that. And then there's, I don't know, Conver know converge i'm always listening to them deaf heaven uh they just released a new song their album sunbather was phenomenal and they just had a new track come out i think this week that's great uh and well the new earth album is fantastic and and yeah, I think those are a few. Ohm, I'm listening to them a lot. Unsane.

I haven't heard that name in a while. Which name? Unsane. I thought of them because I run probably about five or six times a week and they often come up on my iPod Shuffle. I'm a big fan of theirs.

Bands like that and Helmet and Melvins and, you know, old school stuff like that. It's funny, you know, my iPod still consists of like so much of the music I was listening to in high school. That's still predominantly what I listen to these days. There's not a lot of new, new groups. Not that I don't like them. I get new albums from bands that I like that are still together, but I just am so busy with things these days, it's hard to set aside enough time to really explore new stuff.

But luckily I have a few friends who have turned me on to things, and I'm really grateful for that. Otherwise I would just still be listening to Primus and I don't know, stuff like that all the time. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast,

our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer.

And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just

stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really. Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What does the human experience mean to you? You know, terror and beauty and everything and nothing all at once. everything and nothing all at once. You know, it's really, the more I get in, or I've gotten into Nagarjuna's two truths about the absolute reality and the relative reality, and you know, that they're both simultaneously existing, the manifest world and the unmanifest. And having experienced both, it's everything and it's nothing. And I know that's like one of those vague woo-woo-y kind of answers. So if any listeners are listening, they're like, yeah, F this guy. I'm right there with you. F me. Sure. But that's my real, real answer. Like, it really is. It's incredible and it's terrifying and it's nothing. And I don't know, you know, I think about like all of the thoughts and emotions and experiences that have come and gone in my life.

And the countless ones, I'm sure, that are still yet to happen. have come and gone in my life and the countless ones I'm sure that are still yet to happen. You know, then there's that ever subtle pervading, I am awareness underlying all of it. And that's never changed, you know, since I was born. It's, it's the same sense of being of isness right now, as it was when I was a kid, you know, playing soccer, though I wasn't really aware of it then, you know, but then some punk skateboarding in high school who still wasn't really aware of it, but it was the same then as it is now as it will be till the day I die. And then, you know, and then it continues on. So everything and nothing. The question you ask is, and I think it's, I'm just curious, as a recovering addict and alcoholic, it's an interesting question. I think you asked people what their thought is on mind-altering drugs. Am I remembering correctly? Because I asked that, and I liked asking that from people who both, you know, suffered from addiction and who haven't.

In my life, and I know this ruffles feathers sometimes when I say it with those who are in recovery, but I don't look at all of my past experiences as negative with drugs or alcohol. And I still have friends that are able to drink or to do certain drugs and it doesn't impact our life at all. They're responsible. They're able to do it in a manner that, you know, does not destroy their lives. And to them, I say, awesome, that's great. Like to each their own, I thoroughly believe that. In my life, I look back and it wasn't the alcohol. I mean, that was my main drug of choice. And that just, you know, always got terrible and ended up in just awful circumstances.

But I look back at, you know, the hundreds of acid and mushroom trips that I took when I was younger. And I know that those played a role in expanding my consciousness. I was not doing it with that intention. You know, I was doing it just because it was weird and I loved weird things. But it would be ridiculous for me to say that, you know, that did not have an impact on opening my mind, you know, I think to some of the deeper truths in life. And I'm not saying that doing those things are necessary to awaken to that, but I honor that that was part of my path. And the funny thing about that is the one time, the very last time I ever took any sort of

hallucinogen, I think this was back in like 2005 or 2006 maybe, was I took an eighth of mushrooms by myself, and it was a Sunday afternoon, and I was really into Ram Dass at the time, and reading Be Here Now for like the 12th time or whatever, and I'm like, you know, I'm going to take these, and I'm going to see the face of God, and it is going to be incredible, and I took them, and it was just a terrifying experience that resulted in me like three or four hours into it calling my parents who lived about 20 minutes away. I don't know why I didn't call friends. I just called my parents and told them, you know, I was tripping on mushrooms. I need them to come get me.

And my parents, they didn't know what that was. So my mom asked, should we call an ambulance? And I'm like, oh, God, no. Just come get me. And so they, you know, they got to my apartment like half an hour later and it was, you know, like eight, no, no, probably like seven o'clock. And, uh, I remember I, I could barely even talk. I was, I was just so gone at this point. And I, they took me back to their house and and I handed my mom my copy of Be Here Now. And I'm like, here, maybe this will explain it. And we were walking to the car from my apartment.

I remember looking up to the sky and just seeing all the stars. And I looked at my parents, and all I could say was, everything is too real. And that was it. Like, they were not impressed, but they brought me back to their house. And I remember the Simpsons were on because it was a Sunday night, so that kind of started to bring me back down. And next morning I came downstairs, and my mom had read the whole thing of Be Here Now,

and she still was not impressed. She gave it back and didn't understand. Did not get it, yeah. Oh, God bless their soul, though, for, again, never turning their back on me, and here I am today. Yeah, that's a great story. So I think we are near the, uh, end of our time here. Is there anything you would want to, uh, leave the listeners with that we haven't covered or last thoughts on the theme?

Yeah, no, I, I really appreciate your time. Um, and, and I think what you guys are doing is tremendous. So I commend you for that. And, and I, uh, I'm glad that you're carrying on and, you know, spreading the good word. Um, but yeah, no, nothing on, on my end. I, I'm doing what I'm doing. If anyone cares to, um, check out what I'm doing, theindiespirituals.com is my website. And from there you can find me on social media and whatnot, but that is the only shameless plug I'm going to give you guys and bother you with. But sincerely, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it and really respect what you guys are doing.

Oh, you're welcome. And we'll definitely have links to your site and your social media stuff up on our show notes. So, yeah, thank you so much for taking the time. It's been a really enjoyable conversation. Yeah, the feeling is mutual. Thanks so much. All right. Take care.

Bye. Bye. Bye. You can learn more about Chris Grosso and this podcast at oneufeed.net slash Grosso.