The One You Feed - Colin Gawel: Fatherhood and Resilience

Episode Date: June 14, 2017

Please Support The Show With a Donation   This week we talk to Colin Gawel Colin Gawel is the guitarist of the American rock band, Watershed. Colin also has a solo career both with and without his backing band - Colin Gawel and the Lonely  Bones. The album Superior - The Best of Colin Gawel was released in Dec 2016. Colin also lead writer, editor, and founder of the website Pencilstorm and the owner of the legendary Colin's Coffee in Columbus, Ohio. This conversation was recorded live in Colin's kitchen and is focused on fatherhood in honor of Father's Day this weekend. In This Interview, Colin Gawel and I Discuss... Father's Day His song, Dad Can't Help You Now The challenge of watching your child live life beyond your protection What it feels like as a parent for your child to leave home Talking to your children about addiction in their family history Being on the little league baseball team together as kids How important it is to come back from adversity Doing things for the love of doing them rather than for the anticipated outcome His time in the band, Watershed Keeping things in balance in life That time is precious How we find resilience in life The importance of the people you surround yourself with How he writes about what it's like to be an adult in his music His song, The Words We Say How different people react and interpret his songs differently How unusual it is that as a musician, he prefers to perform sober rather than high on something That he's conscious of how his son sees him consuming alcohol Our mutual love of music His song, Try a Little Faith         Please Support The Show with a DonationSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You try to make good decisions when you're in the space to make good decisions, knowing that at some point you're probably not going to make good decisions. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like, garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other

people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like... Why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor? What's in the museum of failure? And does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer.

Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really No Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Colin Gowell, guitarist of the American band Watershed. Colin also has a solo career with and without his backing band, The Lonely Bones. His album Superior, The Best of Colin Gowell, was released in December 2016. Colin is also the lead writer, editor, and founder of the website Pencil Storm, and the owner of the legendary Colin's Coffee in Columbus, Ohio.

Pencil Storm and the owner of the legendary Collins Coffee in Columbus, Ohio. This conversation was recorded live in Collins Kitchen and is focused on fatherhood in honor of Father's Day this upcoming weekend. If you value the content we put out each week, then we need your help. As the show has grown, so have our expenses and time commitment. Go to oneufeed.net slash support and make a monthly donation. Our goal is to get to 5% of our listeners supporting the show. Please be part of the 5% that make a contribution and allow us to keep putting out these interviews and ideas. We really need your help to make the show sustainable and long lasting. Again, that's one you feed.net slash support. Thank you in advance for your help. And here's the interview with Colin Gowell.

Hi Colin, welcome to the show. Great to be here. I'm excited to have you on for a couple reasons. I think you are one of the friends that I've had longest in my life, a long time since we were like 10 or something which is a long time and I also think you are probably one of the most criminally underrated and unknown songwriters there is out there so and we'll talk some about your songs and uh but I'm excited to have you on I think it's gonna be fun. I'm thrilled to be here I know it is funny how our lives just always seem to they always seem to connect some way somehow yeah we We never really set out, but they're always kind of just going back and forth.

Here we are. So let's start like we always do with the parable. There's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love. And the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second and looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins?

And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. Well, I think, especially coming mostly as a background as a musician and a touring musician you see talented people that fall into bad habits and they you know everyone kind of has some energy when they're young and you can go out and do it and then when you get kind of you know you get hit or you know you get around some unhealthy people things fall apart so i think to me it's always been, you know, having

spent most of my life probably till I was like from 18 to 35 touring, it was like, how do I do healthy habits? How do I keep playing music without, you know, drinking too much or getting bitter or I guess just basically, you know, falling off that pyramid. So I always try to take, you know, each day at a time, try and stay creative, try and have healthy habits. Like when things get tough, you run, you go work out, you try to eat right, you try to control the things you can. You try to make good decisions when you're in the space to make good decisions, knowing that at some point you're probably not going to make good decisions, if that makes any sense. So I guess that's kind of how I kind of approach it. And almost like a very day-to-day I don't think

long term I think more like what can I do today what can I do now if I'm not tired why would I drink coffee right now I don't need it right now just drink water uh you know things like that and just kind of keep me on the path to um you know being creative and you know being a healthy person and like still trying to achieve something on a on a that means, on a day-to-day basis. So I guess that would be my, I think I learn more from watching others what not to do. Right. And I try to, you know, pick up on those cues and carve out my own little path that'll kind of just keep me surviving from a day-to-day basis, if that makes any sense.

Yep. So true long-time listeners, like way long-time listeners of the show, or people who've gone back to the archives, may have listened to one with Joe A. Strike, who was an author but also a musician, and his book was about the band Watershed, and Colin, who we're talking to now, is one of the main characters in the book. Yeah. Just to kind of frame up where we come from. What I'd like to start with today, though, is Father's Day. Yeah. So Father's Day is this upcoming weekend.

We are both fathers. My son's about five, six years older than yours. Yeah. But you have written a song recently called Dad Can't Help You Now. It's the last game of the season You're standing out on the mound Bases loaded, the score is tied And the batter has a full count

And you're staring in at your catcher And I've never been more proud But my heart shakes, buddy Cause Dad can't help you now Oh, trade every kiss I ever got To get you one more strike I'd volunteer to paint the Eiffel Tower For a lazy fly ball to ride

Now remember that it's just a game But don't forget to cover home You're not alone out there Dad can't help you now So that song, from the first time I heard it still to today, chokes me up almost every time I hear it. So tell me a little bit about that song. You've got your son pitching, you know, an important moment. And, you know, was that one of the first times you really recognized, like, okay, now he's sort of out of my hands?

Like, up till a certain age with our kids, we can control an awful lot. Yeah. I mean, it's specifically the song was the song was written quickly in my car driving. I remember where I was by Thompson Park. And all of a sudden, it just kind of came to me. And I literally just kind of jotted it down or talked into my phone almost the whole thing. Now, obviously, it came from the fact, as you would know as a parent, you're watching your kid and you sports. And I think we're both similar in the sense that,

you know, our sons played sports. We like sports. We're not like sporty guys per se, but there's a lot of energy wrapped around watching your child out there doing sports. And, you know, the community that we live in is pretty sports centric. So there's a lot around that and I've helped coach, but obviously, you know, watching, it's kind of like those lessons that you want to be out there with them. You want to do anything for them. You want them to succeed so badly that it's a fine line. You don't want to be one of those crazy parents.

But, I mean, obviously the song's just born from like you're out there by yourself. This is it. Bases are loaded. And I want it so bad for you. But you know what? Even in the end, failing's okay too. Yeah. Because you're going to fail more often in life than not. And I think that's obviously what you try to get across to me as a parent

is don't worry about results, just do the process. Which obviously no one young can do that. We only listened to a little bit of the song, so I won't give away the ending of what happens. But definitely, folks, go check it out. We'll have links to it. But one of the things I like in that song is you've got a line about sort of remember it's just a game and also remember to cover home plate. Right. Because that's the thing that's always so challenging for me with you sports.

On one hand, I'm like, I want him to care. I want him to be committed, like to whatever it is in life he's doing. Yeah. And I also don't want him to take it too seriously. how do you balance those two and i thought that line was sort of a great combination of of that yeah no i appreciate i do like yeah remember it's just a game but don't forget to cover home and it's such a dad statement i mean something you would absolutely you'd say like as he's getting out of the car walking away you know remember just a game also don't forget to cover home because you just can't help yep And of course, your kid looks at you like, shut up. But you just cannot help throwing that last bit of advice in.

It's kind of like the have fun and be careful. Exactly. You can't let it go sometimes. Exactly. And it's funny. As we're sitting here talking, my son is literally playing a baseball game two blocks away. While we're doing this, it's going to start in a little bit. And he's been in a hitting slump.

And he's frustrated. And I went out and he went to Hill this morning. He's like, I'm terrible. And you're trying to grasp with those words as a dad, like, you know, just try to have a good attitude and overcoming adversity, you know, just, you know, just get through it. If you do that, people will still feel good about what you did. And of course he's like, are you crazy? I'm striking out. I'm miserable. You know, where you're trying to impart this wisdom and I'm trying to back off, you know, cause if you're, you know, sorry, Owen, you may not get a hit today. It's been really rough up there, but how do you get, you know, those, those lessons you're having those moments to keep them engaged and on your

side and get them through it. And those are obviously the challenging, that's where you sports really presents those moments where you really have a, you know, a direct conversation about a very specific bit of adversity. And your brain's trying to grapple with that and how to make it okay and let them know. I say, you know, it's not the end of the world either. If it doesn't, no one's counting on you

to win the game today. And of course, all that stuff, they just look at you like. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast,

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really supposed to play a big role in choosing our elected leaders. It's for the voters to decide. Follow the Big Take podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. Yeah, well, I'm staring down the ultimate dad can't help you now moment with, you know, my son going off to college in a couple months. Like that's a whole nother level of like, okay, here you go. Like I'm kind of not done as a parent, right? But in a lot of significant ways I am, right? Oh, absolutely. And, you know, I've been going to some graduation parties and I was thinking about, you know, Owen leaving and what that'll be like because, you know, he's an only child and we're pretty hands on and all that.

But I think about going to college and specifically like, you know, I don't know how much you've shared, but you had a pretty interesting wild life. So I'm not your typical dad per se, but I mean, how do you think when you're like, man, he's going to go off there and be unsupervised? I mean, you know, how have you reconciled that with this stuff? It's like, hey, I did all this stuff and turned out okay, but you probably shouldn't do that. Yeah. I mean, how have you passed that on to him? I'm just curious knowing your background.

Well, I turned out okay, you know, by the hair on my chinny chin chin, right? Yeah. I mean, the fact that he's going to be in school is a big improvement over where I was because I just chose those years to be like just totally run wild so if he stays in school you know I think that would be great you know kids these days he's you know is he involved in drinking and drugs probably to some degree what kid is and I keep hearing parents say like well I'm worried about that's a party school I was like what school isn't yeah they're all party school if you want to party yeah I mean you know and I've had frank conversations with him a bunch of times about how, look, based on your mom and I's history, you might react differently to this.

Absolutely. And you got to keep your eye on it. I also know how sneaky it is, and it will likely creep up on him without knowing. He, personality-wise, though, is a little bit different than I was when I was younger. He's a lot more laid back and sort of seems to be kind of content and comfortable in his own skin, which I was not. So I cling to that as my faint hope

that it'll be all right. But yeah, I mean, I expect, he's got to figure it out at this point. I've kind of done everything I can. You know, advice from dad about being careful at college and not drinking too much is like pointless, right?

My mom was in AA and we had a lot of discussions when I was younger, like 15 or 16. 16 and she would be like she gave up drinking and i had no idea that was going on but she was the same thing like you need to keep an eye on this you need to watch this family history did anyone ever have that discussion with you when you were growing up were you aware of any kind of history no because i wonder how much that matters i you know because i feel like my mom in a way like having that conversation because if you don't even think about it yeah it'd be very easy to go and just you're just off the

rails yeah but being kind of exposed to that and being like this is something you have to watch out for because i had the same conversation with owen like you know a you're young it's bad for your brain now you don't want to do it anyway you know blah blah but you know he's gonna know i mean i can't be a hypocrite you know i'm in a rock band i did all these things for all these years but somewhere in the back of my brain was always like this stuff will stink up on you so you need to watch it all the time and i think that gave me an edge over maybe someone who never had heard that because you can just go and then it's too late if that makes sense do you think alcoholism is so complex like i don't really know if it would

have mattered like there's certainly you know they say there's a genetic uh component to it right which i think i reacted very differently to alcohol from the first time i tried it from anybody i knew and i managed to kind of put it on ice by not drinking at all yeah and then i was all you know once i was free i was just off and running. It was like a light switch flipped. And I don't know that anything could have. I mean, I had a dear mentor at that time. Ed Shea was a teacher. And he did so many things for me.

Took me to Seattle, all this. And I remember one night, he died not long after sitting in his truck. And he was crying, like, you've got to stop this. And I mean, nothing. And that was relatively early in the game for me so i don't know because i remember like the same kind of same time you know that summer when you're old enough to to drink or whatever and all of a sudden you get pleased to meet me and you're just you know you know what i mean like that's kind of like

that's what you're doing but i'm like man i hope owen doesn't do that you know i hope he doesn't go down that road because i remember being in a bar you know a lot of nights and i don't know that was what we did um but you know that that's i mean i think being a parent the i mean the number one thing i think any parent that's had any exposure to that world is like don't get addicted to drugs don't get addicted to opiates don't don't i mean your life will be so hard i mean you know that it's so hard you don't want I mean, your life will be so hard. I mean, you know that it's so hard. You don't want to go so far that you got to come all the way back. That's right. I mean, I obviously don't do any of that stuff,

but I look at people that do and I think, well, if you're able to keep that under control, like wonderful. Like I hope Jordan is able to drink and do that stuff like normally. I think it's a legitimate pleasure a lot of people have in life that I wish I had at my disposal.

I just don't. So, you know, it's not like I want to turn him into a teetotaler. That's not how you say that. Teetotaler? We know what you mean. But I don't, you know, it's just the addiction piece that you don't want to anything. So why don't we transition to somehow, you had some funny stuff about when we played baseball as kids. Well, yeah.

I mean, that was one reason we had the idea to do this is that, you know, growing up, here we are talking about Dad Can't Help You Now. And we played on a baseball team. I remember this pretty vividly because I was kind of into baseball. We were on a team together, and it was maybe like sixth grade or seventh grade. And I think your dad was a head coach my dad was assistant coach and our team was terrible it was a three one none we went oh and 15 and i also remembered like the mound was kind of it was last year the mound was kind of close so i remember like facing guys like randy clinger i remember thinking i don't think i got a hit all

year like i wasn't that big physically and neither were you yeah we were decently skilled but that year where it just felt like the pitcher was right on top of you yeah and i remember just like that year was just like this is terrible like i just couldn't get a hit and our team was terrible and then the next year things moved back and i was on a pretty good team and we were like the number one seed going the uh we were named after a french and cheek the two kids that got killed up on 23. And then you guys were like the last seed. We played your team the next year, and you guys upset us in the first round.

I can't believe you remember that. No, and there was a fly ball. It was a pop-up. I was being saved for the next game as a pitcher, and we collided, and the ball dropped, and two runs scored, and we lost the game. And I just sat, and I cried. Yeah. I mean, I was so miserable about losing that game. And that's where I mentioned. Yeah. I mean, I was so miserable about losing that game. And that's where I mentioned too.

I remember my dad saying like, I don't think my dad was a fan of your dad. So there's like some bad blood there too. Like it was like this whole little league moment. But I remember that game. You probably don't. But I remember like. I remember that year in general. I mean, no comment on my dad, but your father would not be alone in that opinion.

And that was just random kids. I don't even know what he was referring to. A little intense. Maybe that's what it was. My dad dad was a little a little probably intense kind of thing that we look at now and you look at and you're like come on like it's a game like let these kids be kids personal but i remember i never said any one point like i said something like like i'm not sure about him like which is as much as you get from my dad or i mean maybe this isn't a great fit or something like that you know what i mean like so i'm sure it wasn't yeah but yeah we played on that baseball team together and we went 0 and 15 but you know that is the crust of the song is and this is this is life right this is the only thing

that matters is how do you come back from adversity yeah that's all that matters that's all watershed is we're not that great but we just somehow persevere and if you persevere whether it's you know in any form it's almost a win i mean in its persevere, whether it's, you know, in any form, it's almost a win. I mean, in its own way. And like, that's what you're trying to, when you lose to get through it and go to the next day. And that's, that's obviously what I try to do. And that's obviously as a parent, what you're trying to teach your son is, you know, things aren't going to go your way, but you know, if you can just compose yourself and come back to fight another day, that's, there's pride in that. You should be proud of fighting.

Yeah. Whatever your challenge is. Yeah. Coming back, how you keep going is is one of the most important skills that you can have. And, you know, Watershed's interesting. And we covered this some in Joe's book. But you guys are still a rock band. I mean, you're really popular here when you play.

You turn out a ton of people. You were very close to, you know, more major success. You turn out a ton of people. You were very close to more major success. You were on a major label. You guys keep doing it. And one of the things that I see out of it is, and I see this with you in a lot of things, your solo writing, your website, Pencil Storm. I see a love of doing these things because you love doing these things. I mean, everybody wants what they're doing to be viewed and to be successful. But one of the things I admire in you is you just keep doing creative work. And if people are paying attention, wonderful. And if they're not, okay. And you know, you're kind of doing it because it because you love doing it because it matters to you. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And

it's definitely and I mentioned it earlier. And when I talk about like the parable, I can't overstate what it was like to be like basically starting a band when you're like in eighth or ninth grade and then you just did that from like the time you were 15 or 16 to like 35 so sometimes I'll have a hard time communicating with my wife and I go do you understand I spent most of my life in a van with the same five guys like it really impacted it took a lot of my time and energy to do that when that stopped it was tough because i had this structure i was used to band practice every night i was used to doing all these this this everything was kind of went around the music and being in watershed

having said that i think i'm wise enough to know that you know there's nothing more pathetic than someone trying to be who they were when they were 25 when they're 45 right i mean so i had to kind of take a step back look at things fresh and be like what what can i do i'm you know my son's now three years old my wife's working i've you know i ended up owning this small coffee shop and just being i think being open to different ideas or whatever you know like how am i going to do a solo group i'm just going to do eps i can't do a record and then i was doing websites and i thought well this is silly to do one website by myself there's a lot of talented people writing great stuff on facebook what if they sent it to me at the coffee shop and i'll post it there

and it'd be a great way to network and keep myself interested at the end of it i'm just trying to keep myself interested in life yeah because i think that keeps you on a on a like said that feeds the good wolf that yeah you know what i mean um and if you keep around interesting people that you don't inspire you and um you know you don't want to let down you know you'll you'll tend to do you'll raise up to their level i think i'm always trying to find people like that that inspire me um so yeah i don't worry about results very much i mean i think going back to watershed we've had so many close calls somewhere along the way you just laugh about it i mean you know you just and that's what I try to convince my son or anyone like, you know, if you put a good shot up and it goes in, that's great. But if you put a good shot up and it doesn't go in, that's great too.

Right. You can't worry about the result. Like you just, sometimes you just got to do it. Yeah. And sometimes you can't not worry about it. But in general, like, you know, we're wired. I think that's one of the interesting things is very easy to say, like know you shouldn't care about results and all that and i believe it to be 100 true and then i find people who now feel bad about themselves because they're they can't stop

worrying about results and it's like you're gonna do it and then you also do your best not to do it right like more humans i mean of course you want to do your podcast you look at the numbers like i look at it and you have like a couple bad days days. You're like, Oh man, like, why am I even doing this? Or, you know what I mean? Like whatever. But I think overriding that is, you know, if you have a passion about something, you just got to go for it and worry about the results later. But obviously I'd spent a lot of time putting out records that were not well-received and that kind of thing where I just said, you know what? That's a good song. And if only 10 people appreciate it here tonight, I know it's a good song. And it's not my role on the planet to just have millions of people love the stuff i'm

doing it so i just got to get over it yeah because you don't want like i said you don't want to be the bitter artsy guy right just get a job at nationwide with benefits and be bitter because there's no point in doing all this stuff if you're looking for positive reinforcement all the time because you're just, it's not, that's not what it's about. Yeah. And that's the other thing I see in, in what you do. And I certainly try and do, and it's a big topic that I, I talk about, you know, on the

show and do many episodes on, which is kind of like the middle way. Right. And the younger me was like, you're either a rock star or you're nothing. Right. Yeah. It was all or nothing. And I, what I love about what you guys do is it's, you know, you get to do a little of both, right? You've got lives, you do those things and yet you haven't let that go because it's something you care about and you love and you

do what you can with it. It's kind of truly a middle ground of being sort of between being fully grown up and being a kid. You know, you're, you're just keeping things in balance, which is so important. I think just because of our friendship when we were so close that I don't know how we just worked well together. But I think that's just the maturity. You see a lot of people that put the guitar in the closet and they never touch it again. And I think we had that breakthrough at some point when we realized we can determine our own rules. We can play or not play. I can do a solo thing.

And that really frees you up when you realize, hey, I still enjoy it. Maybe we'll only do two shows this year, but maybe it'll be really fun. Right. And I still enjoy getting to be a dad, and I still go to the coffee shop, and I still get to do this. And I think that's – I don't know where that came from, but at some point when you realize you're in control, and maybe a younger person will be like, oh, that's so lame that you're a dad and you don't play much anymore.

It's so shameful that you would just put it all away. I mean I never planned on being a parent. I never once in my life thought about being a dad. I've never even had a pet. Like I'm just busy doing – to me that's all just distractions from whatever I think I'm trying to do. But then as you get older and you realize you like this, you like that, you're like,

you know what? There's kind of room for everything. Yeah. And you got to give yourself a break. And it's everything. Look, Watershed's getting ready to play some shows. We're going to play ComFest in Columbus and we're going to go play Cleveland

in Toledo. We haven't played in a while. And are we going to be as great as we once were? Probably not. On that level, it's a little sad because I can look at our old set list and be like, man, we used to just be such an awesome rock and roll machine we could play three sets we could just but at the same time you're still playing you're older i'm not bruce springsteen

right like so i think you have to let yourself off the hook a little bit it's still good and this is the best we're capable of right now and it's better than nothing it's better than nothing and you know you're getting older. And I think about that stuff. I lost my mom at a fairly young age. And you're just like, you could die. So make sure I'm always thinking about, you know, time is precious. And as you get older, like even the other night, I went to see Tom Petty.

Was I going to go? I'm like, you know what? He's getting older. I'm going to go see Tom Petty. Right. You know, we're probably both not going to be around a whole lot longer and you know there's just a little more urgency so i think that's a big part of being older too is you know you can't stare at yourself in the mirror and beat up yourself because your wrinkles are your faults i mean you're just human and you know give yourself

give yourself a break right it's easy to just not even try yep because you can just you know self-edit yourself to just you know and if you fail you fail like with the coffee shop there are a lot of times where i thought you know man maybe maybe this isn't gonna work and i'm just gonna go bankrupt i didn't have any other any other plan all i've done is play music and like wait tables and even then i was like you know what lots of businesses go bankrupt yeah so you know it's not the end of the world and you know what i mean if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out and yeah we had a couple episodes ago was danny shapiro and and she was talking it was in the context of her marriage but she said basically you know i knew that everything was

not okay but yet at the same time it was also okay you know it was okay and i love like what you said there at the coffee shop and all that is this sort of underlying like yep lots of bad shit might happen right things could go wrong a thousand different ways. And somehow underneath that, there's some resilience or some, or I think some of it comes from a recognition that that other stuff is stuff. Yeah. And, you know, and I guess at this point, I should mention too, obviously my wife, Erin, I mean, for anyone, you know, who your partner is, is really, really important. And you're, and she. And she's a counselor, and we kind of did this together. When our son was first born, I was still trying to do music. We did 5th of July, and the record turned out really well.

And she was like, you should tour on this record. And I said, I don't think I should. Like, this is really, if I do it, I'm going to be gone. And I made it clear, like, this is like trying to win the lottery. It's probably not going to happen. And she's like, no, you should do it. So we got some financing, and we got a van van and we went and toured and i said i got to do this for 18 months no matter what if i say i'm going to do it i gotta do it because if it's

going to happen it'll only happen at the end and i'm telling you it's probably not going to happen but she was still like no you should go for it halfway into like 18 months touring she's like i can't do this anymore you need to stop yeah because your son's here you're not making any money and i was like i can't stop we agreed to. And it was rough. It was a rough, and it took us a while to come back from it. But that is an example of, you know, when you're at that moment where you're still young enough, you think you can kind of do it all. And maybe you bite off more than you can chew. We tried this, but now I've got to grow up and i've got to figure out a way to be you know a good partner and still do my thing and you know her credit she gives me enough latitude to know this is like part of who i am so you can't just it's not gonna go away it's not

like i just woke up one day and said i'm gonna try stand-up comedy you know what i mean like it's like this is what it is yeah but obviously you have to have another partner when you're for at least i shouldn't say you have to for me, having a strong person that I admire be around that I don't want to let down pushes me in the right direction. Yeah. You know, you know, between Owen, Aaron and I, so I should obviously, and then she's a counselor. So there's a lot of sometimes I feel like there's just too much. I said, this isn't fair. Like, there's too much communication around here.

This is like what your job is. You know what I mean? So like, I'm like, I feel like, around here this is like what your job is you know what i mean so like i'm like i feel like you know you can't yeah yeah you know what i mean like i like can't i battle through it but you know who you and that would be the other going back to like your child and being a dad is who you put in around you and then i mean this number one rule of life mom show me who your friends are and i'll show you who you are yeah so that's what you watch your kid like a hawk. Who's going to be their spouse or their person? Yeah. And I'm lucky I have a really awesome person that, you know, really does a lot for me and

supports me and all that. I hope I give that back. But I don't have to tell people out there listening, you know, you got on with the wrong person. Yeah. You know, you'll be in trouble in a hurry. And like, even like Watershed, like we never smoked. We're like the only band because we just started so young. I always think about that. It

was like, we would have fun and we would party, but at the end of the day, we didn't want to let each other down. It was not acceptable to be, you know, a total fuck up. That was not, you did not mess up the show. Right. That's how a good marriage should be a relationship. I'm going to have my fun, but at the end of the day, I don't want to be the one who let the team down. Yeah. So, you know, and all that comes from, you know know the relationships you have around you and the people you surround yourself with because i can be and i know you can we we're corruptible guys we can get them we know what i mean back in the day we can get on the bandwagon pretty good oh yeah and go you know get going so you know it's you know you want to have those friends that i think i dated a bartender

one time it was a terrible idea right it's just, that's not the person I need. Yep. You know what I mean? I'll provide the craziness. Someone else needs to provide like the sanity. Yeah. Like that's a good mix for me. And I know. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk

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you get your podcasts. Well, speaking of your wife, let's transition to a different song. One of the things I think that you've done as a songwriter, and very few people I think are able to do it, is to write about what it is to be an adult in a powerful way, right? It's so easy to move into cheesiness or cliche or there's just not, there's not a lot of songwriters I found who are necessarily speaking in as directive terms about what it's like to be the age I am. And so you've got a song called The Words We Say, which is just an amazing song. We'll listen to a little of it here. memory the way you used to smile at me you're

feeling frustrated and it shows I'm disappointed and everybody knows these are the words we say when we don't know what to say these are the words we say when there's nothing

left to say. Whisper I love you. In this lonely, lonely life. Lonely, lonely life. You know that line that she's feeling frustrated and you're feeling disappointed. I assume that disappointment has something to do with your music career. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was right after.

That was one of the first things we did when that collision between being a parent and Watershed really hit. You know what I mean? Where I was still committed to being on the road, but we were trying to raise a young son. And we were in a house and we're trying to pay bills. And we're being adults. Yeah. And then Watershed had stopped. So I was trying to feel my way and write some songs. remember it kind of wrote it over at mike landholds and

i was really excited and i came home and i like played it no i did not go well i'm such an idiot that i thought she'd be like proud of me and she was she was like so like just taken aback every time i hear that song i think of like what's it like to be aaron and again the song is not um it doesn't call her into question in any way it's about and again the song is not um it doesn't call her into question in any way it's about i mean the song is you know basically about once upon a time we were in love and this was really easy and now it's hard and i still love you but it's hard yeah and i don't know how to do it all the time but i can see why yeah i've done that before written a song that i thought well this person would think you know they they look at our situation and think yeah

that's the way it is it's really you know you know never has gone well yeah this person would think, you know, they, they look at our situation and think, yeah, that's the way it is. It's really, you know, never has gone well. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, and it's just, you know, just, it's, um, and I was, you know, having been a songwriter, you have to be, you have to put it out like anything. It's got to be true. Yeah. It's not even worth doing. Uh, but once again, it's still a pop song. It's not, there's only time for one angle. It's not very nuanced. I mean, so of course, if you're writing a song, that's going to be, you know, a little more down or something, that's, you know, it's not like an interdiverse like, oh, but either way, she's, you know, she's still beautiful. And I love, you know, but you did that to some extent. That's the, again, the part of

that that is, I find so powerful is not only is it about how you're stressed when she's around and she, you know, how all the things that happen in a marriage, but there's also like the, I love you part too, which, which, which adds that like, it's a very short piece, but it's totally changes for me the tone of the song. Cause it, it makes it more what it's really like, you know, you can paint things as awful and you can paint things as good really easily, but painting them as both is, and that's the art

that I love that manages to do that. Yeah. I appreciate that. And it's, you know, it's definitely a song that is a special song for me. And I don't, you know, I don't know where it, where it came from or where it happened or whatever, but, uh, you know, as far as writing goes, I know I try to stay current in the sense that like, I think we always have the same, you kind of have the same experiences of emotion, whether you're playing little league baseball or you're doing this or that, it's kind of the same through life. So you have to kind of jump in and grab them. And if you, I think if you stay honest to yourself, you can write a song when you're 18 and you can play it next to a song you wrote when you were 45 and they'll still sound like the same voice. Yeah.

You're still the same person. Now I'm not saying I'm great. I always can do it. I can't, it's hard. I don't write a ton of songs. There's no time it but i think if you find that that essential truth you know that's kind of floating around you you can do a song that feels real in middle age yeah and you can play it next to a song you wrote when you're young and he's still strangely enough it works it works but i think that's part of being removed you know challenging yourself is to write about what you're going through now and not retreat to some cocoon of where I was when I was 32. Right.

I don't think most people, most musicians do it well. That's my opinion. There are some, and I'm not saying, but a lot of the musicians I find who are older, they have managed to remain writing really great songs, but they're

not necessarily, they, they, it seems like they become less biographical in some way. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I guess it could happen. I mean, to anyone, or I haven't really, I'm trying to think who, I don't know. I guess I don't have a really good answer for that, but you know, all I can say from my point of view is, you know, I just, you know, I do, I don't think it's a conscious effort. I just think that's just, that's how my process works. Like what's going on around me now?

What can I speak to? Yeah. And go from there. And having said that, that's a song also that I probably wouldn't have written for a Watershed record. But once Watershed wasn't playing and Joe was doing a book, it kind of freed me up to write about maybe something a little more hyper personal. Yeah. That wouldn't that wouldn't um wouldn't you know i was just you know once again i'm just doing it for myself it wasn't like there

was a record deal i'm gonna just work on this song right um and that just happened to be the song that came out in that moment trying to think of where we want to go now i want to talk about one more song but anything else direction wise you want to go here covering the parenting thing and just all that and like i, having the friends around you. I'm thinking that's what really the wolf, like it's like having reasonable habits, maybe not the best good habits and having good people around you. And that kind of saves you from going to the bad wolf. Because I feel like I could go over.

I never feel like. I'm always like, well, maybe I just, it all just falls apart. Yeah. Maybe I just start drinking too much. And just at some point I just throw in the towel. I'll have a few days where I don't feel motivated. And I'm like, well, maybe it's the end. You know, it was a good run, but maybe I'm just,

maybe I'm just meant to be the guy that sits at a bar down the street and just works a nine to five job. I mean, I find that appealing. I could be a factory worker guy. If I could just work nine to five and go to a bar and eat a pizza and not care about my health. I mean, I could settle into that. Yeah.

I think the, I think the alcohol is the key part of that, right? Like, I mean, I think about that and I'm like, well, yeah, I guess I could do, you know, like I have this vague, I mean, I, it's, I have this vague idea that at some point, you know, I'll be really old and, um, I won't have anything else to do that matters. Like, I'll just be like, I'm kind of done. Right. I don't, I don't, I don't want to write a book. I don't want to. And I'm like, at that point, I'm going to get on this whole medical marijuana craze, right? Like I'm gonna, I don't think it's a great way for an addict to be thinking, but, but I just sort of put it off. And, and, uh, and I just come back to for myself over and over, like there's things I want to do that matter. And I, for myself, I know that those things won't happen if alcohol and drugs are part

of my life. It's over. But then, like you, you might be close to the edge, but you've always stayed away. You've never been completely over the edge. No, I feel like I have set... It'll be funny because Aaron will be like, I don't keep any liquor at home or anything. Because I'm like, I'd probably drink it.

I don't want it around. You know, beer. If you always get just one or two beers, why don you buy like 12 because i drink i drink all 12 like i'm aware right now where everything like all that is so that's where when i think about being a father of my own it's like you know i i feel fairly confident in my age and if i was going to go off the wheel it was just going to go off the tracks it would have happened you know but you know you never know you never know you never know. You never know. You never know.

But that's where I want to be like, you can be better than me. Don't be like me. I've got these vices. You can probably do better than that. But at the same time, a lot of people that are creative, especially growing up, they kind of use alcohol or something to kind of spur that on. And for whatever reason, i've never been that guy like i'm more sober when i have to play a gig and a lot of musicians aren't they party oh yeah i'm not i like i like yeah i like to party when i'm not doing anything yeah and that's always been

i find it not fun to have to work or create i've never been one of those brilliant people that you know can drink and come up with some amazing song for me it's always been yeah very sober kind of work uh like when i especially getting older now um i remember we played a show last year and i think owen came it was watershed and i was just conscious of like you know we're a rock band and we have beers on stage and stuff to some degree but i remember thinking like i'm not gonna have a beer i don't want him to see me with a beer in my hand playing music he sees me with a beer in my hand throwing baseballs or watching a game but when i'm playing music i want i don't want him to have this association and i don't need it i don't need to have it here when i'm playing yeah it is i like

it sometimes but i don't need it yeah it can be such a strong association that like i think for people who give up the alcohol and drugs a lot of times the music goes to or has to go, which I don't think is true. It didn't happen for me that way. I was probably more active musically after I got sober with a band. But it was hard because I had never really done that sort of stuff in a normal – I didn't do anything in a normal state. So I suppose everything was hard. But there is that association, and I'm glad i was able to untangle it early because you know one of the things i've thought about more and more lately it's just on my mind a lot is like what a gift it is to have something like music

that i love to do i have no aspiration musically at this point like there's just nothing really there it's mostly like i just really love doing it and i'm so glad that i have that though because and not just something i love doing something i love listening to like having a thing in my life that i love that much oh it's such a gift it's your best friend like people that aren't there like you know like like i know my wife erin she knows she you know she obviously she just like i have to have music on all the time i'm always like musically thinking i was always in the background oh and if uh he's got to put on music if we're gonna throw baseballs like if like i'm aware if there's no music if i'm at the coffee shop and it's silent for a minute

my brain's like even if i'm not paying attention it's like where's the music right so it always has to be there and it is something i don't know how it gets into your blood or whatever it is but yeah it's it's you, it's my favorite thing, you know, a lot of things, but crank up a whatever spring scene replacements or whatever. And I, I mean,

like, and I just, when there's moments where you're like, this is the best, you know, and it's, I think also it appeals to me because it's so imperfect. Like I was never good at math.

Like, you know, the nice thing about music and specifically rock and roll is just some, you know, the sum is greater than the parts a lot yeah and it gives you a break like like joe writing a novel like there's no way around writing a novel like you've got to put all those words together into a big long book i would never be able to do that but you can you know bang out a rock song with a couple

cool chords and hell maybe just repeat the first verse a third time you know it's still good and i like that it's a very forgiving in that way. It is a very forgiving medium, that's for sure. It may be dead, because that's the other thing. But now my son's starting to listen to rap, so we're going through the whole thing. I've already been through all that. My kids are incredibly eclectic. Like, there's an eclecticism in their music taste that there was not when I was young.

Yeah. And I think that's just maybe across the board in general but they're like you know rap and rock and i mean they're just kind of all over the place yeah it's you know my friend said because owen's always been a we love music so we've seen the stones and i'm always playing music he's always been a rock guy and it was like yeah he's gonna get into rap soon middle school and the other day after baseball he got baseball practice he got in the car with a couple of his buddies, and all of a sudden he put on like Power 107. I didn't even know what that station is. No one was very aware.

And then two weekends ago, I was driving the van for a baseball tournament, and I was driving the guys, and they wanted to put on stuff. And I'm like, okay, put on whatever you want. I'm just the driver. I'm not your dad. And, of course, it was just like super offensive, F-bombs, N-bombs and stuff. And I asked Owen owen had been like he wants to go see kendrick lamar and he had he was very thoughtful he said no this guy's legit because i just want him to be able to tell the difference between there was a big difference

between bon jovi and bruce springsteen right just like i assume there's a big difference between kendrick lamar and whoever the other dude is whoever else is in there so he made a very passionate plea and i'm like okay you know sure you can you know my parents didn't want me they want to see iron maiden when i was a kid i want to go you know i can't be the dad that like downplays a whole form of music that's right hey find your own stuff man and uh you know so we're it's funny we're just moving into that territory where you know and i i'm curious to like play me the good stuff like i want to know yeah what's what's going on out there. Cause I don't. And you know,

you don't want to, you know, especially musician dad, you can't be the one who's like, Oh, you know, even, even when I find it completely offensive.

Yeah. I'm sure, you know, my parents weren't loving Ozzy Osbourne coming blaring out of my room. You know what I mean? So that's just, that's just the way it goes. Yeah.

I've had to just let that, let that be also. And I've learned to like find the stuff that I like. Like of it i'm like wow this is legitimately like art like i love it um so yeah well we are near the end of our time here so um we're gonna fade this one out a little bit differently than normal we're gonna fade out with a song of yours called try a little faith which is, uh, was on your Christmas record, but isn't really a Christmas song.

No, no, you know, it's, and, uh, you know, listeners will hear it,

but I, I really like it because it, it again is sort of that ambiguous middle ground, right? Where you're saying like, you know, for a lot of us, we don't really believe in God in the traditional sense.

You know, you've got, we know too much, right? And yet, you know, try a little faith. What could it hurt? Which I know, you've got, we know too much, right? And yet, you know, try a little faith. What could it hurt? Which I just, I love that, that idea. Anything you want to say about it before we fade out to it? Well, I appreciate you bringing it. I'm surprised you brought it up. And it's funny. Cause I know Aaron's like, I don't really

understand that chorus. She'll say to me and I'm like, well, it makes sense to me. Like in my head, like, yeah, I don't really, the traditional things, I'm not sure I believe in all that stuff, but you know, it's almost like another parenting thing you know try it try a little faith you know it can't can't hurt because i think there is i have faith i don't know exactly what it is but i have no doubt habit i know so it's hard to uh but um yeah i mean i guess like once again with the song i guess the song kind of says it but yeah you know like i said it can't it can't hurt you know try it out and see where it takes you. Yeah. But I'm not going to sit here and lecture you about specifics, this and that.

Yeah. And I'm sure, you know, that's another part of parenting and that whole spiritual world. And, you know, I was brought up Catholic and I was, you know, I went to church and CCD every single week and all that stuff. And I'm glad I went, I'm not a Catholic now. That's not my thing. I have relatives that are, but think you know with owen we've wrestled with that is like you know at least you want to have some exposure to something spiritual so when you get older you can make a decision about it you can have something to reject oh yeah

oh yeah exactly whatever it is you know but on your own because it is a big part whether you like it or not it's a big part of the world yeah and a lot of people they do care greatly about it so you should have some understanding of it but that really doesn't have anything to do with the song you can just play the song alright thanks Colin

thanks Eric Here's a song for the rest of us Who cannot pretend Because we know too much about where we're going. About where we've been every second is a gift. Don't you waste it. We're all going the same in the end. I'm the first to concede that I've never believed there's only one way to get into heaven. But you can't see the air yet somehow we can breathe dry little faith.

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