The One You Feed - Conor O'Brien- Villagers

Episode Date: August 3, 2016

This week we talk to Conor O'Brien about celebrating our uniqueness Conor O'Brien is an Irish singer and songwriter for the band Villagers. The band came to prominence in 2010 with the release of their debut album, Becoming a Jackal. Released to critical acclaim, the album was shortlisted for the 2010 Mercury Prize and the Choice Music Prize. The band's second studio album, {Awayland} was released in 2013. It won the Choice Music Prize that year and was also shortlisted for the 2013 Mercury Prize. Their 2015 record Darling Arithmetic quickly became on of Eric's favorite records of last year. It also won an Ivors Award for Best Album of the Year.   In This Interview, Conor O'Brien and I Discuss... The One You Feed parable Using art to explore our inner challenges His "meditation" song His song about smiling into the void- Nothing Arrived Embracing the difficult How most music tries to cover up the cracks in life How music that seems sad can be very comforting. Being part of something bigger Realizing how little we know Becoming more comfortable talking about his sexuality Being an introvert The sweet relief of knowing nothing comes for free Looking for shortcuts in life and how they don't exist Why being on The One You Feed is sort of like going to a therapist How therapy is less accepted in Ireland as much as America Having faith in the things that make you different Finding the things in ourselves that are unique and magnify them For more show notes visit our website         A grandfather is talking with his grandson and he says there are two wolves inside of us which are always at war with each other.  One of them is a good wolf which represents things like kindness, bravery and love. The other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed, hatred and fear. The grandson stops and thinks about it for a second then he looks up at his grandfather and says, “Grandfather, which one wins?” The grandfather quietly replies, the one you feed The Tale of Two Wolves is often attributed to the Cherokee indians but there seems to be no real proof of this. It has also been attributed to evangelical preacher Billy Graham and Irish Playwright George Bernard Shaw. It appears no one knows for sure but this does not diminish the power of the parable. This parable goes by many names including: The Tale of Two Wolves The Parable of the Two Wolves Two Wolves Which Wolf Do You Feed Which Wolf are You Feeding Which Wolf Will You Feed It also often features different animals, mainly two dogs.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I guess it's kind of about embracing that feeling of futility rather than trying to fight it. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like, garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent and creative effort to make a life worth living.

This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer.

Go to reallyknowreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really No Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Connor O'Brien,

the singer and songwriter for the band Villagers. The band came to prominence in 2010 with the release of their debut album, Becoming a Jackal. Released to critical acclaim, the album was shortlisted for the 2010 Mercury Prize and the Choice Music Prize. The band's studio album, Awayland, was released in 2013. It won the Choice Music Prize that year and was also shortlisted for the 2013 Mercury Prize. Their 2015 record, Darling Arithmetic, became one of Eric's favorite records of last year. It also won an Ivers Award for the best album of the year. Here's the interview. Hi Connor, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me. I'm really excited to get you on.

Your record last year, Darling Arithmetic, was one of my two favorite records of the year. And the new one that you've released, which is a recording of live recordings that you made in the studio, is also really wonderful. So it's a real pleasure for me to have you. Oh, thank you. I'm blushing. Well, we'll start the show like we usually do. There's a parable in which there's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love. And then the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops, and he thinks about it for a second,

and he looks up at his grandfather, and he says, Well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, The one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. It's a weird one for me in terms of creativity, because I think when you're making music or art, of creativity because I think when you're when you're making music or art um you can be exploring things which might be construed as negative in your everyday life but if you explore them in the most creative and the most open way possible in art then you might be finding that uh you might

be discovering these these negative aspects within your music, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. So, for instance, I have some old songs which, when I listen to them, to me they sound slightly like I was being a bit dishonest or trying to portray an image of myself at the time. But for me, that doesn't mean that it's... It doesn't negate the art. It doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. It just means that that's where my head was at at the time, But for me, that doesn't mean that it's, it doesn't negate the art. It doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. It just means that that's where my head was at the time kind of thing.

So I see kind of music and art as an exploration of all aspects of your life, whether you want to classify them as positive or negative or evil or good or any sort of other dualistic qualities. Yeah, I mean, we definitely talk about the fact that art, at least for me, is one of the big ways to, you know, to use the analogy to feed my good wolf. That consuming and engaging in and creating art is one of the best things that I can do for myself. Yeah, totally. So let's talk about a couple songs off the Darling Arithmetic record. The first one, you've described it as, at one point you said it was one of your favorite songs,

and you said you wanted to write a meditation song, and that is The Soul Serene. Took a little ride on the carousel Wonder at end, I can never tell Keep spinning to the soul serene Till I've got no reason I've got no reason To figure out what it means

And I find Chameleon dreams in my mind. Step into the sorcery, the sorcery. Step into the sorcery, the sorcery. The Soul Serene Step into the Soul Serene The Soul Serene Step into the Soul Serene Where have you been all my life?

What did you mean by a meditation song? I think that was a slightly reactionary thing in terms of my songwriting. I think I was looking back at music that I'd made in the previous two years and realized that a lot of it was trying to fill as much as possible into four minutes of um folk rock whatever and so i guess this this was me just kind of like saying why don't i try and express the experience of space and solitude and just uh kind of that that feeling of emptying your mind, having moments with yourself in which you can kind of feel your shape shifting to some degree. Because I've had many experiences like that, usually when I'm alone. So it was an effort really to kind of express that.

And I think I'm quite proud of it. I think I got somewhere with it. I think you did too. It's absolutely, I just love it. It's one of my favorite songs off that record or any record. There's a sense of peace to it that is difficult to get across in music without being schmaltzy. And I think you managed to do that. Oh, cool. Thank you. Do you, is meditation something that you are, that you practice or that you do? Or is that just sort of more a term that you use for the song at that point?

I got involved in this thing called the Alexander Technique when I was losing my voice quite a lot on tour. And basically the Alexander Technique is you give yourself at least 15 minutes every day. And you lie down, usually put like a book or something at your head so that your neck is really straight and you just stare at the ceiling. And you don't really try to do anything. You just kind of become aware of the weight of your body. And it was originally a technique used for actors when they started losing their voice after, you know, 20 shows in a row or whatever. But for me, it became something quite addictive, actually. It was something that I really,

really looked forward to. I couldn't live without every day. So it became more of a psychological calming thing. And I haven't really lost my voice since I started doing it, which is kind of interesting. So I think it's more like a sort of a psycho physical thing really so for me that's kind of a meditation yeah i guess an older song here is going back a couple records uh nothing arrived and you you talk about you waited for something you know and something died you waited for nothing and nothing arrived i've heard you say that that became a pretty straightforward folk rock song about smiling into the void.

I waited for something And something died So I waited for nothing And nothing arrived It's our dearest ally It's our closest friend It's our darkest blackout It's our final end

My dear sweet nothing Let's start anew From here on in It's just me and you Just me and you Can you tell me a little bit more about that song? That's not pretentious at all, is it? Yeah, we've actually been playing that on this tour in a very different way, so it's become something new for me again.

But I guess it's kind of about embracing that kind of feeling of futility rather than trying to fight i feel like a lot of music and a lot of stuff especially stuff that gets on the radio um and stuff that becomes very popular for god knows what reason is music that kind of embraces the idea of of covering up the and, you know, trying to portray a sort of perfection or an idea of perfection at least. And the music that usually makes me feel happy or, you know, just connected in some way is music which a lot of people describe as depressing, I think, you know, music which actually kind of talks about the things that you might feel when you're at your lowest or or the things that you're not usually meant to be able to say in your office job or on the train or on the bus or whatever you

know and I guess this that nothing arrived was just kind of my way of kind of expressing the those dark moments that you can get, but realizing that they kind of bring us all together because, you know, we're all susceptible to it, and that's kind of a beauty. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like

why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you. And the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer.

And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us tonight. How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman.

And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really, No Really. Yeah, Really. No Really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's a great song, and I love the way you do it. your songs tend to have, you know, who we've talked about so far, tend to get into, I don't have a great word for it, but metaphysical or existential or bigger picture things. They're talking about something that's happening here in the world, but they're also talking about being part of something bigger. The song So Naive being a great example of that, where you say you're part of something bigger. I believe that I'm part of something bigger So naive, but I guess I got it figured I guess I got it figured Through these little eyes

I see the world Every woman and man Every boy and girl Every little part In aid of something bigger Something bigger, something bigger When the one thing you live for Is the one thing you lack You say, how

How did I get here? I'm never gonna get back. Do you think a lot about that sort of stuff? Are you spiritually inclined? Does it just kind of happen naturally? Well, I do, yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's much more than anybody else, but I definitely spend a lot of my time kind of observing things and usually taking notes in my phone or whatever, or my notebook, whatever I have with me. I mean, So Naive is kind of an interesting one because it's

sort of proposes that idea and that feeling of of being part of a bigger picture um but it also kind of mocks it a little bit um it sort of says you know i'm so naive but i guess i've got it figured out and it's kind of that realization of knowing that you you know i mean it's an oversaid thing but it's like a realization of knowing that you actually know nothing at all the line in there you know, the one thing that you need being something you lack, was that in reference to anything in particular? Or would you like to leave that up to our imagination? For the listener, I guess, you know, it's always going to be different. I mean, I suppose for me that was kind of linking to feelings of being younger and not being able to kind of express myself or my sexuality

or feeling like you couldn't come out yet when you're kind of a young teenager and that kind of feeling of growing up gay in a kind of homophobic society, which is what happened to me. a kind of homophobic society, which is what happened to me. And that kind of, for me, opened up a lot of creative doors because it just turned me into a voyeur. And I kind of started seeing the world around me as a whole load of signs and signifiers and just this big theater, you know, this kind of strange paradigm, which I wasn't part of.

You, as far as your sexuality, were more overt on the Darling Arithmetic record than any in the past about your sexuality. Was that a conscious decision? And did you have fear around that? It wasn't necessarily conscious. It was more kind of like the only thing that was feeding my fire you know i couldn't write anything else um so i had to write it i've always let the music kind of dictate where i wanted to go um and the previous albums were like dealing with those feelings of anger and kind of an indignant energy, which I felt, but it wasn't specifically pointing towards it, which I thought was an interesting project, but also was coming out of a certain amount of necessity

because I wasn't comfortable talking about it to strangers with microphones and cameras and stuff, because I'm quite a naturally introverted person anyway, so it was something that I had to go through in my art and my music. So, yeah, I mean, I guess it's just I don't really do anything with an overthinking mind. I kind of just let the music take me where it's going to go. And I feel like I'm kind of on a, on a journey really with, with that. I'm Jason Alexander.

And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the really, no really podcast. Our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions. Like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer.

We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Hello, my friend.

Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really. Yeah, really.

No really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another song which kind of gets to the topic of being brave enough to write about who you really are is the song Courage. And there's a couple lines in there that I'd like to ask you about.

like to ask you about. to get free Took a little time to be honest Took a little time to be me I took a little lover but then we parted It took a little time to get over this And from time to time I get heavy hearted Thinking of how we used to kiss

Courage, it's a feeling like no other Let me tell you, yeah Courage, in harmony with something other than your ego. Courage, the sweet relief of knowing nothing comes for free. The first one I'd really like to ask, I love this line, and I'm just curious what it means to you, the sweet relief of knowing nothing comes for free. I think it's one of those lines that kind of turns something,

this thing that could be construed as a negative or as something that you had to fight for is actually something that carved out the most interesting parts of your psyche and your personality. I really like it because I think that a lot of us are always looking for some kind of shortcut to a lot of things. And I love what I took from that in my own life was the relief of kind of recognizing that's not the way it is. Nothing comes for free and really accepting that and being okay with the work that I was going to have to do in my life to be the person I wanted to be.

What lesson would you say has taken you the longest to learn in your life? Wow. Wow, this is a really interesting interview. I've never had to do this. I've actually started seeing a therapist recently and this is a really interesting interview i've never had i've actually started seeing a therapist recently and this is not dissimilar um what lessons have i learned don't be afraid of going to see a therapist maybe that's going to be an interesting that's not seeing a therapist isn't embedded in irish culture as much as it is in american culture it's it's something that you don't really talk about as much over here.

But I'm finding it absolutely beautiful. I'm discovering so many aspects of myself which are really going to feed, hopefully, my next songs. I guess just being able to have faith in your idiosyncrasies. Yeah. Have faith in the things that make you different and make you shine that a little bit more. I think that's something I've learned to emphasize as well in my life as I've gotten a little bit older. I heard you appear on a show where they were

asking sort of your top tips for, I think it was probably around creation. And that was one of the big ones you said was find that thing about you that's unique and kind of blow it up like it's not blow it up like destroy it blow it up as in magnify it yeah totally i mean um good example my friend dave is a one of my best mates we were in a band together for years and when david bowie died he put up a post on facebook and it just said thank you boy for helping me to learn how to celebrate the strange. I just thought that was such a beautiful sentence and, you know, it reminded me of when we were 12, 13 and seeing Hunky Dory from start to finish and, you know, just the strength that

kind of stuff gives you is beautiful. You like to read a lot. What are you reading right now, or what have you read really recently that you thought was very profound? I'm reading a book called Gay Lives from Wild to Al Moldavar. It's by Calum Talbean, the Irish author, and it's basically exploring all these different writers and artists and filmmakers who were gay in different times of history and in different countries.

And it's fascinating, really, really interesting. I'm on a chapter about an Irish man called Roger Casement who ended up working for the British consulate. And he basically got given lots of awards for his work in Peru because he was discovering that the local population were being really badly treated. And he got sort of further and further up

in the British Consulate and then became more of an Irish Republican and ended up trying to help the Easter Rising in Ireland in 1916 by bringing German guns into Ireland. And then he was caught by the British and hanged, basically. But they also found these diaries on him called the Black Diaries, in which he's basically talking about all these homosexual encounters that he had.

But a lot of people think they might have been forged by the British government. It's a completely bizarre, interesting story. Right, yeah. Very, very, very kind of... I think Daniel Day-Lewis should try and play him someday. That would be pretty good. Is the mood in Ireland still very positive after the referendum where gay marriage was sort of legalized by the population themselves

by voting directly on it? It is, yeah. Socially, it's amazing. I mean, that was probably one of the most important times in my life because just walking around the city and seeing people wearing badges saying yes and knowing that these people have absolutely no problem with who you are and how how at odds that is with you know 10 years previously when you're still a teenager or whatever and really not feeling that at all it was it's completely amazing um it's just it was it was such a brilliant thing for everybody i think it's it's it's gonna have ramifications

which you're just gonna continue seeing for the next 10 20 years it's yeah it's going to have ramifications, which you're just going to continue seeing for the next 10, 20 years. It's, yeah, it's amazing. I've heard you in a couple interviews and also in that song Courage talk about connecting with something other than our ego. What does ego mean to you? I mean, that's one of those terms that gets used so many different ways. I'm curious for you what it sort of represents. It's not necessarily the kind of freudian ego thing like the aid or it's not necessarily being as specific as that for me

it was more kind of using ego in a slightly weighted biased term in terms of it being something that you can get obsessed with quite easily you know, perhaps more in a sort of celebrity culture way or in a, you know, a slightly less kind of pure way than perhaps ego could be construed. Yeah, so for me, it's more like kind of opening up your horizons and being kind of humble with how you see yourself. Yeah, for me, being less focused on myself in general, being able to have a point of view that actually includes other humans. Yeah, or other types of humans. Right, right. Well, thanks so much, Connor, for taking the time to come on. Like I said, your records have been great sources of comfort to me over the last few years, and I've really enjoyed this conversation.

Thanks very much. Cheers. Thanks for having me, Eric. Okay. All right. Take care. Bye. Bye. Okay. Bye. You can learn more about Connor O'Brien and this podcast at oneufeed.net slash Connor.