The One You Feed - Dr. Edith Eger on Life Lessons

Episode Date: May 4, 2021

Dr. Edith Eger is a Holocaust survivor who went on to graduate with a PhD from the University of Texas. She is a prolific author and maintains a busy clinical psychology practice. She is also frequently invited to speaking engagements around the world.  Eric and Dr. Eger discuss her book, The Gift: 12 Lessons to Save Your LifeBut wait – there’s more! The episode is not quite over!! We continue the conversation and you can access this exclusive content right in your podcast player feed. Head over to our Patreon page and pledge to donate just $10 a month. It’s that simple and we’ll give you good stuff as a thank you!Registration for the Spiritual Habits Group Program is open now! Visit spiritualhabits.net to sign up and learn more about how to bring forth real transformation in your life!In This Interview, Dr. Edith Eger and I Discuss Life Lessons and…Her book, The Gift: 12 Lessons to Save Your LifeIIf you don’t love yourself, you can’t love othersHow she views her experience in Auschwitz as an opportunity for discovering her inner strengthThe prison of victimhoodLooking at things from different perspectives How we are hungry for affection, attention, and approvalThe opposite of depression is expressionThe prisons of guilt and shameThe prison of judgment Having spiritual freedom Dr. Edith Eger Links:Edith’s WebsiteTwitterFacebookInstagramTalkspace is the online therapy company that lets you connect with a licensed therapist from anywhere at any time at a fraction of the cost of traditional therapy. It’s therapy on demand. Visit www.talkspace.com or download the app and enter Promo Code: WOLF to get $100 off your first month.Calm App: The app designed to help you ease stress and get the best sleep of your life through meditations and sleep stories. Join the 85 million people around the world who use Calm to get better sleep. Get 40% off a Calm Premium Subscription (a limited time offer!) by going to www.calm.com/wolfIf you enjoyed this conversation with Dr. Edith Eger on Life Lessons, you might also enjoy these other episodes:Improvising in Life with Stephen NachmanovitchDr. Tererai Trent on Incredible PerseveranceSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We got to think about our thinking and pay attention what we're paying attention to, because any behavior you pay attention to, you reinforce that behavior. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like, garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do.

We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction. How they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission

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The Really Know Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Decisions Decisions, the podcast where boundaries are pushed and conversations get candid. Join your favorite hosts, me, Weezy WTF, and me, Mandy B, as we dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday and Wednesday, we both invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. Tune in and join in the conversation. Listen to Decisions Decisions on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Dr. Edith Egger, a Holocaust survivor who went on to graduate with a PhD from the University of Texas and became an eminent psychologist. Today, Edith maintains a busy clinical practice and lectures around the world. Today, Edith and Eric discuss her book, The Gift, 12 Lessons to Save Your Life. Hello, Dr. Egger. Welcome to the show. 12 Lessons to Save Your Life. Hello, Dr. Eager. Welcome to the show. Hello.

I am really honored to have you on today, and it is such a treat to get a chance to talk with you. Thank you. In a moment, we're going to talk about your book called The Gift. But before we do that, there's a parable we read at the beginning of the show, and I'd like to ask you for your thoughts on it. In life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the wolf that wins is the one that we feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that

parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. The work I do is practical psychology, and those two are really fitting me beautifully because what we think we create and what we want to recognize that what we pay attention to, we have to be careful and study our thinking and what we're paying attention to. Because when we have a goal, we want to be sure that what we focus on and pay attention to will be in alignment to get us closer to the goal.

So I like to call it the arrow that I follow. And to find always the way I think and find a gift in everything. find a gift in everything, but then I also look at things in terms of, is it rational or irrational? Is this going to empower me for five minutes? And then I pay a whole price for it all my life, like if I go cheat on my wife, okay? Because it's not the sex, it's I'm dishonoring my wife. So I think we got to think about our thinking and pay attention,

what we're paying attention to, because any behavior you pay attention to, you reinforce that behavior. Yep. So it's a wonderful, wonderful way for us to start. It's a beautiful way to start. And it's very important to think about much thinking before I open my mouth. And I want to say something, hopefully, that is kind and it is necessary. Thank you. That's a beautiful way to start. So I think in order to frame up your life and your work, we need to sort of go back to your origin story, which is not a very pleasant one, right? You are a Holocaust survivor. And whatever amount of that you feel like you want to share that would be useful for

the audience, I don't want to spend a ton of time there, because I really want to focus on the amazing work you've done in creating your approach that you're calling practical psychology. I want to spend a lot of time there, but I do feel like it's important to give listeners a little backstory. So I'll leave it to you how much you want to talk about there, and then we'll move into your work and your psychology. Good, that's good. What I am talking to you about is that you told me I'm a Holocaust survivor, is that you told me I'm a Holocaust survivor, and I'm going to tell you that it's not my identity.

I am a human being who went through an experience. I refuse to be a victim. It's not who I am. It's what was done to me. And I think that's a big difference because in some ways in history, we are all victims of victims. So that's why when I ask a child, why do you do that? A child would say, because I feel like it. Children don't care about consequences. As an adult, I still feel like it, but I don't act upon it unless it is in my best interest. So, you know, you are brilliantly putting that wolf story

beautifully. It's so important because it's not what happens, it's the way we look at it. what happens is the way we look at it. When I go to church, who is the little Jewish boy I talk about? Jesus. Jesus. And Jesus told us three things that I relate to. Love thy neighbor as thyself. What that prophet is telling us, that you cannot give what you don't have. If you don't love you, you know, how can you love others? Everything, you start with you. You're born alone. You die alone. There is something between birth and death called life. Do you live a lifestyle or a death style?

If I live a lifestyle, I feed myself with good things. All right? I'm not going to have a donut for breakfast with Coke. And so that's why I ask people to be good parents to themselves. I think you're saving the world with your word. You may not think it, but you want to teach from me that if you wait for someone else to make you happy, you're never going to be happy. And in Auschwitz, nothing was coming from the outside.

So it was an opportunity for discovering the inner strength that they could put me in a gas chamber any minute. Just like now, we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. It's a very hard place to be in a limbo. But then I am also very much aware as to short-term hedonism or long-term hedonism. So when you ask, as I told you as a child, the child doesn't care. Even if I have diabetes, it doesn't matter. If I like the Hungarian chocolate cake, I'm going to eat. And that voice is in me all my life because it's called temptation. And God gave us temptation. Why? So I can practice the freedom of choice.

As an adult, I still feel like it, but it's up to me whether I act upon it or not. See, I had a woman calling me five o'clock in the morning, a sudden girl. She called herself a sudden beauty. And she's crying, Edie, I am in this guy's bed. I went to the bar and I picked up this guy and I'm in his bed. You know, it wasn't me.

I very quietly said, who was it? You know, the devil got into me, she tells me in a sudden accent. So freedom comes with responsibility. Freedom without responsibility is anarchy. And that's why I beg, don't spoil your children because they were the first one to die. It's very important for you to listen to your self-dialogue early in the morning.

So when I go to church, I listen to that. The secondly, what I really admire, that he was able to meet people where they are. And that's why I never ask people, how are you? Those are social noises, and people lie if you ask a question. How are you? Fine. I was just saying in my former interview that I was teaching, I was professor of psychology, and my student said that in America, people are hearing, but they're not listening. And I said, okay, let's test it. Tomorrow morning when you pick up your book,

someone is going to say hi to you, and very quietly you say, my mother died this morning. Sure enough, he comes back, said, I did what you told me, and I told him to say, my mother died this morning. And he said, great, I'll see you this afternoon. People are hearing, but they're not listening. I think it's very important for you to listen to that voice. But most of all, I think what is most important that Jesus said, turn the other cheek. And he didn't say, go back and do the same thing over and over again and expect different

results, you know, which is the definition of insanity by Einstein. Thank God that little Jew came to America and changed World War II. So I think when he said, turn the other cheek, he said, look at the same thing from a different perspective. See, you and I are good ophthalmologists. We look at everything for an opportunity, for discovery, not recovery. And that's how I talk about Auschwitz and the discovery of my inner resources and not to allow anybody get my soul. They could throw me in a gas chamber any minute. I didn't know whether I take a shower, whether water or gas is going to come out.

I didn't know 4 o'clock in the morning when I stood in line, they were counting gas. I didn't know whether I end up in a gas chamber or not. And this is where we are now with the COVID. We don't know. We know that we don't know. Really, we don't have any guarantee. We don't have. We know that we don't know. Really, we don't have any guarantee. We don't have any certainty. I think we have probability. Which one I feed. Because all people who come to me are hungry. They either have something what they don't want, or they want something what they don't want or they want something what they don't have. People are hungry. That's my diagnosis.

Hungry for affection, hungry for attention, hungry for approval. You got to give up your need for approval of others if you want to be free. You got to give up the need to please anyone all the time. And most of all, you give up being a perfectionist. When you are a perfectionist, you procrastinate. So let's talk a little bit about your book, The Gift. In it, you talk about a bunch of different prisons. So you're using the analogy, obviously, of, you said it earlier, the Nazis could put you in prison, but they couldn't take away your freedom. And you talk about a lot of the prisons that we put ourselves in.

I thought maybe we'd just go through and explore a few of the different ones that you have. And I thought we'd start with the first one. You sort of touched on it a little bit, but you call it the prison of victimhood. And you say suffering is universal, but victimhood is optional. And then you also have a question that is so good. You say, ask what now instead of why me? That's right. And unfortunately, I talk about the prison in our own minds. And it reminds me that I graduated cum laude. And I was told to pick up my cap and gun and meet the people at this and this and this place.

And I never showed up for my graduation because I told myself I don't deserve because they are dead. That's the prison that I created in my own mind and didn't even give myself permission, that's a good word, to really go and celebrate that I worked so hard. You know, I never finished high school. I begged the university to take me in on probation in January. And I made the dance list and they forgot about me. And I worked so hard because I didn't speak English well. And I put things down in Hungarian a lot of the time. And the basketball players who were tall, tall, tall came to me because I sat

in the first row so I can see the professor's throat. They wanted my notes and I told them, it's Hungarian. You see, you have to want to badly enough. You have to want to be a survivor. You have to want to recognize that life is difficult. There is no guarantee. There is no certainty of any kind. There is no guarantee, there is no certainty of any kind. Marriage is the hardest thing you enter into to empower each other with your differences. Rather than waiting with an empty cup, somebody to fill my cup and make me happy.

It's not working that way. Self-love is self-care. It's not working that way. Self-love is self-care. It's not narcissistic. It takes adults to get married. I beg young people to stay in school and don't mess with your brain. Don't smoke pot because it interferes with the natural growth of your brain. That takes 25 years.

So don't kill your wonderful brain cells and become a good parent to you. So I preach a little bit because, you know, I'm 93 years old. I've been there, done that. And it's very important to revisit the places where we've been. And that's the work I do. I hold your precious hand and we go back to your bedroom when you were a little boy. And I remember I had a 90-year-old boy who had a dog and the dog died, and the boy died with that just about emotionally didn't know what to do, so he cried, and he cried, and father came in and yelled at the boy, we don't

cry in this family, and grabbed the boy and took him to a pet shop and bought a new puppy. And he said to me, Dr. Eger, I'm 56 years old, and I have yet to shed a tear since I'm nine years old. See, what comes out of our body doesn't make us ill. Crying is good. It's healthy. When you have a broken heart, you grieve, you cry. But in many families, especially the white Anglo-Saxon Protestant families, you have to control yourself.

You're so controlled, you're splitting at the seams. Be a little Hungarian. Scream it out. You've got to have rage before you move into forgiveness. Mental Health Awareness Month is a worthy thing to celebrate, but it shouldn't just be our focus for May. It's important to be working on your mental health all year long. And one of the best ways to do that is talk therapy. It can create lasting change in all areas of your life, your relationships, your career, and your overall happiness. A therapist can help you identify the habits and patterns that might be holding you back

and how you can move forward in the right direction. I wholeheartedly recommend Talkspace for therapy. You can sign up online and start therapy the same day if you want. You can text, video, or send voice messages to your licensed therapist, as well as have what we would consider traditional calls over video or phone. Talkspace is also really affordable. It's a fraction of the cost of in-person therapy. They've got thousands of licensed therapists with years of experience in over 40 specialties, including depression, anxiety, substance abuse, trauma, anger management, on and on, food and eating. Whatever your issue is,

Talkspace has somebody that can help you and their matching platform is really good. It helps you find just the right person for you. So as a listener of this podcast, you'll get $100 off your first month with Talkspace. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to Talkspace.com. Make sure to use the code wolf to get $100 off your first month and also to show your support for the show. That's WOLF and Talkspace.com. Go to Talkspace.com for $100 off and use the code WOLF. Springtime means looking forward to brighter days ahead, but you may feel like your mental health is still stuck in winter.

If you're feeling blue or need a mental reset, it's the perfect time to give Calm a try. Now, as many of you know from listening to Eric and I over the years, I am a Calm user. It's me along with 100 million people around the world that use the Calm app to take care of their minds. Now, I am a particular fan of the sleep stories, which everybody should try. But of course, the Calm app is also heavily a meditation app, and you can use it to reduce stress or anxiety, improve your focus, and just overall life well-being. Now, Calm, particularly the premium version, has so many options on it, it's hard to even go into what you can find on there. It's an absolutely gigantic database, and there's so many meditations. I think I've used them for almost any situation. Many of them are read by Tamara Leavitt, who is the head of mindfulness at Calm, who has such a great and pleasant voice to

listen to. Now, for listeners of the show, Calm is offering a special limited-time promotion of 40% off a Calm Premium subscription at calm.com slash wolf. That is a huge discount. I think even at the regular price, I was paying just under like $6 a month. So go to calm.com slash wolf for 40% off unlimited access to Calm's entire library. That will keep you busy for a very long time. That's calm.com slash wolf. You say that the opposite of depression is expression. That's right. So share your secret. Share your secret. What comes out of your body

doesn't make you ill. You either vent anger, suppress anger. I like you to dissolve the anger. Talk to me about how you dissolve the anger without venting the anger. I like you to dissolve the anger. Talk to me about how you dissolve the anger without venting the anger. Recognizing that anger is not a primary emotion. That is very, very, very true because I studied that. When I'm angry, I give my power away. I ask people to reclaim your powers. You're angry because you expected more and you're getting less. It's really very important what you're expecting. So what I'm really talking about a lot of the times is the name rejection. lot of the times, is the name rejection. So somebody, maybe like you, I come to and I tell you,

I would like you to get to know me, me, Edie, not Dr. Eagle, and you tell me that. It's a very nice offer, and thank you. I'm not interested. So the best four-letter word is risk. And I asked you, and I didn't get it, what I want. But I was not rejected because rejection is just an English word that people make up to express a feeling when you don't get what you want. So give up the drama. One time a young person told me he rejected me. No, no one can reject you. So get rid of that word for sure. No one has any power to reject you. But you just wanted something and you didn't get it. And that's what life is, suffering. And when you suffer, take it from me, you become stronger. So who do you feed?

Another of the prisons that you talk about, we touched on this just a little bit here, but I want to hit it, which is the prison of secrets. I love this. In Hungary, we have an expression, if you sit with one butt on two chairs, you become half-assed. That's a Hungarian saying. In Hungarian, it sounds funny. If you're Jewish, you say, you can't go to two weddings with one behind.

You cannot dance in two weddings with one behind, you know, and you cannot dance within two weddings. Many ways, how do you split yourself? How do I split myself that I'm working, loving, and playing? While I'm talking to you, I'm cooking a Hungarian dinner for tonight. My children are here. It's called the seike goulash. It's about meat and sauerkraut and sour cream, a lot of caraway seeds, a lot of paprika, and you serve it on mashed potatoes. So I am dividing myself, and you know what? I will never retire. I'm better now than I was years ago.

If I don't know anything, I tell you, and maybe we can look it up together. But I want to be the true me, not the image of me. And that's what we call the ego, the false self. You say that honesty starts with learning to tell the truth to yourself. You look in the mirror in the morning and just say, I'm one of a kind. Look at Gandhi. Took one person to bring down the whole British empire without ever shedding a blood. I lectured in that Museum of Gandhi in Johannesburg, South Africa. I felt so, so wonderful to talk to people.

These people were called the YPO, the Young Presidents Organization. They have a lot of money, and they spend it on building all kinds of schools for the children, building homes for families. They are really truly my heroes. The Young President Organization, I was so beautifully, beautifully treated. I was so beautifully, beautifully treated. You see, they don't give you money for what you do, but they treat you so that I traveled with an airline called Virgin Airlines. Have you ever been on Virgin Airlines?

First class. I have not been on it. I know what it is. They give you pajamas. They put you to bed in San Diego. And then I woke up in London. Fabulous, fabulous, fabulous treatment. I was treated beautifully. And I was able to travel practically all over the world.

And even today, I am hoping that I can guide people to transcend their ego needs and recognize that Auschwitz was an opportunity to discover that life is from inside out and not to wait. People who were waiting for someone to come and liberate them, they didn't make it. All we had was each other then, and all we have is each other now. So when I danced for Dr. Mengele, I closed my eyes and I imagined that the music was Tchaikovsky and I was dancing the Romeo and Juliet at the Budapest Opera House. And today when a woman tells me I was sexually touched, and I don't know how to tell you, Edie, because you were in Auschwitz.

And I said, you were more in prison than I was because I knew the enemy. So if you have a secret, share it. If you come to see me, you're going to have to go to the 12th step because there were two drunk going to Carl Jung in Switzerland. going to Carl Jung in Switzerland. And Carl Jung said, alcoholism is a spiritual issue, not psychotherapy.

So I sent people to the 12-step so they could be grown-ups, so they could live a life of an adult, that freedom comes with responsibility. Yeah, well, it saved my life. And one of the things we used to say in 12-step programs all the time is, you're only as sick as your secrets. And you're thinking, thinking, yes. Lovely, lovely words that I like to use about how you go to a meeting

and recognize that all you have to do is sit there. And then they trigger things in you that you ran away from because you medicated your feelings. You medicated your grief. You don't drink when you're happy. You think you are happy. You want to be happy. happy. You think you are happy. You want to be happy. But then you become a false you. You tell them that you are some kind of a king's son. And then you get sober and then you think, oh my God, I feel so little. They call it a shame attack. Yeah. I feel little. And you fluctuate from helplessness to grandiosity. Yes, yes.

That does appear to be a big part of it. You became now the one who does his calling. This is your calling. His calling, this is your calling. And the alcohol is a gift that you were able to turn tragedy into this kind of an opportunity now that you can tell people, this is not the best you can do. We've all been stuck inside for a year, living amidst the really difficult conditions of this pandemic. We've had to change a lot about who we are in order to adapt. And maybe we've developed some behaviors and ways of thinking that aren't really serving us very well. This time has also brought up some fundamental questions about who we are,

what matters to us, and how we want to live our lives. These are spiritual questions, and they have a newfound sense of importance to many of us. As things are starting to open back up, now is the time for us to reevaluate where we are and rethink our habits and goals. We need positive, supportive, and intentional paths forward. To do that, we could benefit from some support. We need to reconsider how our habits are helping us to become these new versions of ourselves. And that's why I've decided to again offer the Spiritual Habits Group Program, and it's open for enrollment from May 4th through May 25th. Go to spiritualhabits.net to learn all about it and sign up to join us.

Translating what we know into what we do requires intentionality and skill, especially in the realm of spiritual principles like mindfulness, compassion, and perspective. When you use behavior change principles to put powerful spiritual wisdom into practice, the result is a set of transformational spiritual habits. Spiritual habits are things you do throughout your day to remember and take action on the things that really matter, thereby experiencing greater meaning and connection. Spiritual habits build the bridge to a life where we thrive. Importantly, we learn spiritual habits best when we work with

others. That is one of the core orienting principles of this program. When we work alongside other people who are building their own habits, we find inspiration, hope, and support for our own practices. In this program, we support one another. Because of how we structured the program, you'll build real connections, community, and friendships. We offered this program a year ago and I know of deep friendships that started at that time which still exist today. Small groups that met then are still meeting now. Members of that community are still connected, still supporting each other. That's the type of community we're talking about here. So whether you're looking to develop a consistent daily meditation practice or implement mindfulness practices into your life or just to connect more deeply to what really matters, the Spiritual Habits Group Program

will give you the tools you need to turn this wisdom into daily and sustainable practice. And you'll do so in a community where you belong and feel connected. If you join by Sunday, May 9th, you'll get access to the early bird bonus I'm offering, which is an additional live 60-minute session with me on Sunday, May 16th. During this bonus session, I'll be teaching how to make time for spiritual habits, no matter how busy you are or what you've got going on in your life. To learn all about the program and sign up, head to spiritualhabits.net. That's spiritualhabits.net. I hope you'll join us.

Let's talk about another of your prisons. You talk about the prison of guilt and shame. I'd like to talk about what is the way out of that prison. I can only tell you what I lived. Anything I tell you, I lived it. First of all, my parents wanted a son after two girls, and I came along. So I came into a very talented family. My sister Magda played the piano. My sister Clara played the violin. And many people didn't even know I existed. I would say, I'm Clara's sister. I didn't know. I didn't have my identity. But my mother looked at me one day and said, I'm glad you have brains

because you have no looks. I think it's very important for people to see what you carry in you. It's kind of like Shakespeare. They put you somewhere, and then you give a game, and what happens that I took care of a military family, and they just came back from Germany. And so they had these little dolls in the living room. And so when I came in, the mother introduced me to the children. This is the shy one. This is my giggly one. This is my son, the doctor. And so we sit down, the shy is shy, the giggly is giggly and I tell the shy one because I was painfully shy. I said, you have such a beautiful profile and mother kicked me under the

table and said, don't tell her that, she'll be conceited. So you know right away in this family, you don't get positive reinforcement. And that's why, you know, many times your mother may tell you, you're a very handsome boy, but you're fat, and but you're pimply, and you forget about before the but happened. So I tell people, give me the but, and I give you an and. Yes, and. Yes, and. So the little two-year-old was nagging on mother, and she was washing dishes, and she was telling the little boy that she's busy. But the little boy is two years old. I want and I want it now. That's what children want.

Want it easy and want it now. And so the little boy stopped. I watched that little boy thinking, clickety-clickety-click, and goes to the living room and just about touching one of those dolls, and just about touching one of those dolls, and mother comes in, grabs the boy, picks up the boy, and said, didn't I tell you not to touch that? You see, what do you pay attention to? Just like which one, which wolf.

And you know, yeah, he got picked up one way or another. And that's what children do. They go to a most elegant restaurant and you may say to your mother, if you don't give me this now, then I'm going to see the effort. You immediately don't want to be seen as some kind of a bad parent. So we look at the firstborn child usually are the responsible ones. Most of our Nobel Prize winners are either only children or firstborn children. Middle children are like peacemakers, like Kissinger. They want everybody to get along. I guess that's what you're very good at. But young people in a family we call charming manipulators. And I was one of those charming manipulators. If I wanted money, I asked money from my father when he was playing billiards,

and he wanted to look very generous in front of him. I couldn't do that with my mother. Very different responses. So which one are you teaching people to be a survivor and not a victim of anything or anyone. No one can put you down, but you. No one can reject you, but you. You have as much power over other people as you give them permission, allow them. And that's why I ask people to reclaim their innocence.

allowed them. And that's why I ask people to reclaim their innocence. And for that, I had to go back to Auschwitz and go back to that lion's den and go back and look at that lion in a face and go back there and reclaim my innocence and begin to forgive myself that I survived. That's the hardest thing, to forgive you. And that's why I didn't show up for my graduation when I graduated with honors. So you see, we can be our own worst enemies, and hopefully you can recognize that children don't do what we say. They do what they see. So the best thing, again, for children is a happy marriage. I hope you are in a happy marriage. I am with a partner, and I am very happy, yes.

She and I are very happy. I'm very happy that you're a good role model also to others, the way you treat. Your children want to know how you treat their mother. Yeah. And you are a good role model to the children. Let's talk about the prison of judgment. You tell a pretty powerful story in the book about in the early 80s, you're doing court-appointed therapy and a 14-year-old boy comes to you. Do you want to tell that story?

I think what comes up for me is the 14-year-old young boy who was part of the white supremacy group. He was part of a group called David Koresh in Texas. He ended up being bombed by the government. But he came to my office and he told me he's a boot boy in Texas. And I acknowledged his boots, even though I know nothing about boots. And then he got up and he put his elbow on my desk and said, Hey, Doc, it's time for America to be white again, and I'm going to kill all the Jews and all the, using the N-word, and all the Chinkos and all the Mexicans. Now, there is a difference between reacting or responding. and all the Chincos and all the Mexicans.

Now there is a difference between reacting or responding. If I would have reacted, I would have dragged that boy, the coroner, I would have stepped on him and I would say, who do you think you're talking to? I was in Auschwitz. My parents died in a gas chamber. But I, I live by the idea that somehow I was in Auschwitz and here is this young boy coming to me

and I operate on the idea that people don't come to me, they're sent to me like you are. So I went to God as I did in Auschwitz and I said to God all that and God said to me, find the bigot in you. And I told God, no, no, no, no, no. I am not a bigot at all. I came to America in 1949. And I worked in a factory. It's called a sweatshop.

I got seven cents per dozen cutting up boxer shorts. And I became the breadwinner because my late husband ended up in a TB hospital. He died of TB too, came back. But when I went to the bathroom, I saw a sign colored, imagine after Nazi Germany and communist Russia, I come to America to find democracy. So love is not what you feel, it's what you do.

I gathered the women of color. I asked them to take me to a meeting. And guess what? In 1963, you may find myself among all those people with Martin Luther King singing, We Shall Overcome. You're too young to understand that, right? 1963, June or July, I don't know, but I know it was summer. It was very hard. So when someone is not going as well as you want to,

I ask people to say to themselves, I don't like it. It's inconvenient. And it's temporary. And I can survive it. Don't say but. Say and. Because everything is temporary. I'm going to be very happy in my death,

but I know, I know because I live life to the fullest every day. I finish everything on my plate. Take me out to lunch and believe me, I'm going to eat up everything on that plate. And believe me, I'm going to eat up everything on that plate. And if you leave something on your plate, I'm going to either eat it or take it home with me. It pains me to throw away. So Auschwitz was an opportunity to really discover that inner strength, that they could throw me in a gas chamber any minute.

I had no power over that. They would beat me, torture me, and never, ever touch my spirit. So that's what I bring to you, that spiritual freedom, that no matter what you tell me in the English language, when you're angry, I'm going to hear the word you. You are stupid. That's what bullies do in school. You are whatever they call you. And all you say to yourself, the longer they talk, the more relaxed I become. You take the negative stimuli, immediately turn it into positive, and you say, I'm practicing my low frustration tolerance level. That's a 50-cent word from psychology, that I cannot change the stimulus,

but I'm sure not allowing to murder my spirit ever. So you don't make me angry. When you hear somebody tell you all you have to do is just change it to I, I make me angry because your behavior is unacceptable, Miami. So I went back to that boy, and I created the environment that you create,

that people can feel any feeling without the fear of being judged. And I looked at him as lovingly as I could. You know I can kill you with my eyes, and I can love you with my eyes. And I said three words. Tell me more. please tell me more. He never knew a thing about my past. And that's my experience, that I was remembering when I saw at the Capitol the people who were the white supremacists

and wearing a shirt, six million was not enough. How do you think I feel? But I don't let fear rule my life. But you know, people trigger things in you. I watched a movie the other night. It's called The Miracle Worker. It's the life of Helen Keller. She's deaf, blind, and then one time when they have dinner, after months and months of working with this child, Helen Keller was taking a picture and going out with the teacher. And as she was getting the water, the first time she began to talk and she said water. It took like 10 minutes at least, water. And what triggered in me that when I was liberated, I didn't know how to write.

And I remembered practicing a capital G for hours and hours. See, when we were liberated, people would go through the gate, but then they would come back. And Siddha talks about the positive psychology. We were free, but we didn't know. And he calls it learned helplessness. And that's very, very true. I did not know how to write,

especially the capital G. So you're guiding people now that maybe something is going to trigger that you have not finished. And you got to go back and relive that experience and you go through the valley of the shadow of death. Don't get stuck in there because when you're constipated, you concentrate on a movement. So that's why my daughter calls it idiom, are you revolving or are you evolving? So be like a butterfly and shed that chrysalis

so you can fly freely like a butterfly. Well, you look lovely. And I think that is a great place for us to wrap up. Thank you so, so much for coming on and sharing so much of your wisdom and kindness and love with us. It's been a real honor for me. God bless. God bless. If what you just heard was helpful to you,

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