The One You Feed - Eric Tivers on ADHD in Adults

Episode Date: July 17, 2019

Eric Tivers is a licensed clinical social worker, coach, podcaster, speaker, consultant, and entrepreneur. He specializes in ADHD and has worked extensively with individuals on the autism spectrum. His podcast is ADHD reWired and in this episode, Eric and Eric talk about the experience of being an Adult with ADHD.Need help with completing your goals in 2019? The One You Feed Transformation Program can help you accomplish your goals this year.But wait – there’s more! The episode is not quite over!! We continue the conversation and you can access this exclusive content right in your podcast player feed. Head over to our Patreon page and pledge to donate just $10 a month. It’s that simple and we’ll give you good stuff as a thank you!In This Interview, Eric Tivers and I Discuss…How he separates “mind” and “brain”ADHD in AdultsImpulsivity and HyperactivityInattention and DistractabilityHow people with ADHD aren’t lazy – according to brain scansThe diagnostic criteria for ADHDThe multimodal treatment approach for ADHDHis experience with AdderallThe lie of “I’ll remember that”Time wisdomThe importance of Exercise, Sleep Separate decision from actionThe wisdom in flipping a coinA disorder of self-regulationAccountabilityThe anatomy of a to-do listVision verbingWhy cueLife on hard mode – but we can do hard thingsEric Tivers Links:ADHDreWired.comTwitterFacebookYouTubeBlinkist – Do you have an ever-growing list of books to read? Blinkist can help! With thousands of non-fiction books distilled down to their most salient points that you can consume in 15 minutes or less go to www.blinkist.com/wolf for a 7-day free trial.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I got to the end of this chapter, this book, and for the first time in my entire life, I knew what I had read. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like, garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious,

consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, And does your dog truly love you? We have the answer.

Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really No Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Eric Tivers, a licensed clinical social worker, coach, podcaster, speaker, consultant, and entrepreneur. He specializes in ADHD, and he's worked extensively with individuals on the autism spectrum. His podcast is ADHD Rewired. Hi, Eric. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much. Glad to be here. It's a pleasure to have you on. I was on your podcast not too long ago, and we had such a great conversation. And so I think the same thing will happen again, hopefully here for our audience. But before we

get into the meat of it, let's start like we always do with a parable. There's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love. And the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second. And he looks up at his grandfather. He says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. What that really means to me is there's all kinds of things that

come to our awareness, including the thoughts that are pervasive in our mind, both the negative appraised thoughts, the positive appraised thoughts, and just the more neutral ones. And our brain is this fascinating piece of machinery that generates these chemical, electrical reactions that are somehow stamped with language and we make sense of it. But just because we think it doesn't mean it's true. reactions that are somehow stamped with language and we make sense of it. But just because we think it doesn't mean it's true. So by not putting too much attachment to the thoughts that we have, because the more we think things, the more we think things. So it's by acknowledging, oh, I'll give you a great example. This morning, I was leaving my house and I heard a lot of sirens. So in like a 10-second period, I had a thought, oh, my God, there's been a shooting at my son's school.

Oh, my God. Like I went through this whole scenario in my head and I'm just like, brain, what's going on? And I just took a deep breath. brain what's going on and i just took a deep breath and so i just sort of noticed that i went into this real fast uh weird like catastrophic thinking loop uh just because these sirens were a little bit more than usual now i do live like five blocks from a hospital but it still seemed a little bit more than usual so the anxiety was uh fed by because i was listening to that thought for a moment right i was feeding that and then when i was listening to that thought for a moment, right? I was feeding that. And then when I was able to take a step back, observe brain, I try to separate mind and

brain, right? And just recognize the absurdity of it. It was able to, you know, starve that wolf and then feed the wise mind and calm the body. I was mentioning to you before, I just got back from a long silent retreat. And one thing that a retreat like that will do is show you just what your brain does. And it occurred to me just, not that I don't know this, but you go on something like that and it becomes so much more aware. I'm like, my brain says the stupidest things and it says them over and over and over and it never shuts up and it's inane. And I was like, if I had a friend who talked this much about such stupid things, we'd be friends for like three minutes. That'd be it. We would take me three

minutes to be like, this friendship is over. And yet like, that's where we live. Yeah. And it's interesting. My brain doesn't usually jump that catastrophically. So that's kind of why that stood out to me today. It's like, huh, well, that was interesting. Even when it's not catastrophic though, it's just this repetitive sort of just, I just, you know, like I said, being on retreat, that's the one thing you, because there's nothing else to do. You meditate, and then you walk around and live with your brain, because you're not, you know, at least the ones that I'm doing, you're encouraged not to read, not to listen to music. You've got nothing to do except listen. And you're like, oh, man, there's a, oh man, there's a lot going on up there. And most of it is completely irrelevant. But it seems so relevant when you don't have that awareness that you're talking about. We just sort, and you are focused on adult ADHD. So let's sort of start there with, you know, what is adult ADHD?

What are some of the signs, the symptoms? Like, you know, how would somebody, if they don't already know they have it, if they haven't been formally diagnosed, what are some surefire signs this might be something you're dealing with? So the first sign is you might be an adult. Yeah. So that's the first criteria. I mean, we call it adult ADHD, but there's not a specific thing called adult ADHD.

It's just ADHD in adults. Now there is a different criteria though, a slightly different criteria for adults. Now, there is a different criteria, though, a slightly different criteria for adults. Because ADHD is a cluster of basically three categories of behavior. You have your impulsivity and hyperactivity. The stereotype of ADHD is you have this hyperactive boy jumping off the walls. That's your Bart Simpson, right? Your stereotype of ADHD. And it's not just the hyperactivity, but also the impulsivity.

So that's another element of that, because as you get older, the hyperactivity may diminish a bit, but the impulsivity tends to be pretty consistent throughout life. Then you have your areas of inattention. So that's the distractibility. That's the disorganization, challenges with time management, troubles with what we call executive functions.

So that ability to plan, to sequence information, to sustain your attention when something's kind of boring. You know, and people will say, well, everyone has a hard time paying attention and doing's kind of boring. And people will say, well, a lot of everyone has a hard time paying attention and doing things that are boring. Like with ADHD, one of the things that I think is so important to understand is that it's

one of the most misunderstood and stigmatized disorders compared to how much information and research is out there. It's like the misinformation wars are still winning around this disorder, right? So you're dealing with the hyperactivity and impulsivity. You're dealing with the inattention and distractibility. Great at starting projects, maybe, but never finished the project.

Has a hard time paying attention to details. Forgets what they're about to do. So issues with with working memory, even just sustained motivation is part of that cluster of behavioral symptoms. And we still do sort of describe it in a behavioral way, but it is a neurobiological developmental disorder. We can see in group studies, brain imaging studies, that not only does the blood flow between regions of the brain differ, we have changes in size structure. We have certain areas of the brain that are smaller

and don't work as efficiently. There's this great brain scan where it shows a study of, it's a composite image where you have a cluster of typical adults doing some, you know, basic cognitive tasks. And then next to that, you have a cluster of adults with doing the same, with ADHD, doing the same cognitive tasks. With the non-ADHD adults, you see just a little region kind of right in the middle of the brain lighting up, not a ton of activity, right? Which is what you want to have. And with the ADHD adults, you see two different regions further spread apart, also using some of the emotional centers

of the brain to do cognitive tasks. So when I'm presenting to groups and I say, you know, When I'm presenting to groups and I say, you know, if we're going to call laziness a lack of effort, and when you see more yellow and red and orange on this brain scan, meaning more effort, which brain is putting in more effort? Right? You know, for me, and I have ADHD, and for so many people in my community, the word lazy is, it's a shaming kind of trigger word, right? That's, you know, someone calls me lazy. It's like, oh no, uh-uh, uh-uh. It's, you know, one of the ways I often describe my ADHD is my engine is revving,

but I am in neutral and I can't get myself to do anything. I know what I have to do. And that's what kind of ADHD often in adults looks like. It's you know what to do, but you can't get yourself to do what you know you need to do. What is the diagnostic criteria? How does a professional go about diagnosing it?

So the gold standard of the way you diagnose ADHD is through clinical interviews, rating scales, and interviewing loved ones in your life, right? So you have to, one, have a history of the challenges that I described earlier, you know, impulsivity around high-risk behaviors, constantly on the move, you know, the distractibility, the teacher said the teacher said, could do well if they just apply themselves. Doesn't turn on their homework. So there has to be that childhood history of these issues. And there's even some controversy around this, but if you look at what is accepted now, you got to have a history of it from childhood.

Doesn't mean you're diagnosed in childhood, but you have to have a history of these problems, right? So there's nine symptoms of hyperactivity and impulsivity, right? Six of them are of hyperactivity, three are of impulsivity. Then there's also nine symptoms of inattention. For kids, you need to have six out of the nine. For adults, five out of the nine. For adults, five out of the nine, right? These symptoms need to be present for at least six months and they need to

be the functional impairment because there needs to be impairment in order for it to be a disorder, right? Needs to be present in multiple domains. So work and home. However, there's even controversy with that because we know that interest is so important for people with ADHD. So if you happen to, growing up, if you were a kid that actually liked school, you might not have struggled as much if school was your jam. Most people with ADHD, school was not our jam. But there are some people who are some kids who would describe that.

So yeah, you need to have all those things present. There's people like, well, I want a brain scan to really know. It's like, well, you can go pay for a brain scan, but the science doesn't support it. And there are people out there who say, say yeah you can get the spec scan it's like now they give 50 false positives so like flip a coin is the front line of treatment symptom management is it behavioral is it medicinal is it all of the above i mean you know i i'm more i'm more familiar with with depression as a a thing, and I know that the answer to that is all of the above. The evidence-based treatment for ADHD is referred to as the multimodal treatment of ADHD.

And so, yes, it is an all of the above with the biggest slice of the pie being medication. You know, ADHD medication is effective for most people, right? Not everybody, but most people. And there's so much misinformation and fear around ADHD medication. The story I like to share is when I was diagnosed with ADHD, I was in college. My first year, my freshman year of college, my first semester,

I got a 2.2 GPA. And I may have been opening up more beers and books. I opened up the books, did a lot of studying, spent a lot of time in the library, and I got a 1.8. And I was like, oh, well, that wasn't the kind of positive reinforcement I was looking for. And as someone with ADHD, one of our common traits is if we are passionate about something, we can argue ourselves out of any situation.

So I was able to convince my parents to give me one more chance. out of any situation so i was able to convince my parents to give me one more chance right and i just happened to have good luck by having a a meeting with a friend who was sharing with me that she was diagnosed uh not long ago with adhd and she was describing some of the challenges that that she had and for the very first time, I felt like, oh my God, this person is describing what it's like inside my brain. One of the things that she said that for me, that light bulb moment of, she was saying, I'll be reading the stuff in my books. And then I thought I'd be triggered by something I was reading. And now I'm thinking about that thought, but I'm continuing to read. something I was reading. And now I'm thinking about that thought, but I'm continuing to read.

And I'm like, this is my entire life of school, right? It's like, I would read the chapter. I was assigned, but I had no idea what I just read. So I went the first week back at school and I made an appointment to get an evaluation. And after the evaluation, he's like, you passed this test with flying colors, meaning, wow, how were you not diagnosed with ADHD when you were younger? So I scored really high on the inattentive presentation of ADHD. So I wasn't the kid bouncing off the walls. I had some impulsivity growing up and still do. But my main symptoms were inattention. I was in my own head and completely content there.

So I was diagnosed and i was given a prescription for adderall and that first day i remember i was reading this book it was called crested kimono it was about the uh comparative uh japanese uh business family right and i think just the fact i can remember that says something, right? And I remember I was sitting there in my room at college and I got to the end of this chapter, this book. And for the first time in my entire life, I knew what I had read. And I told the story probably a thousand times and I still get choked up every time I tell it. There was life before that and life after that moment. Because it was like, I would have been living in this fog for my entire life, but because it's all I ever knew,

I didn't know that I was living in this fog. It was like, oh my God, I can have just one thought at a time. I didn't even know that was a possible. I didn't know that was a thing that happens. I was able to read the book and actually like, I'm thinking about the words I'm reading and I'm pausing to reflect and I'm noticing if I mind doing something else, I'm thinking about the words I'm reading and I'm pausing to reflect and I'm noticing if I mind doing something else, I can bring it back. And it was this feeling of feeling normal for the first time in my life. And I can't tell you how many people I've talked to who have said those exact same words. And what I find sad is how many people are like, oh, I'm against medication. I don't believe in medication. And yet they're struggling so profoundly. And I said, you know

what? Be against medication for you when you've tried a couple of medications at a couple of different doses and the side effects are outweighing the benefit. At that point, be against medication. side effects are outweighing the benefit. At that point, be against medication, right? It probably saved my life. And it's just, it's this message that I want to tell people, don't be afraid of it. You know, people say, well, I don't want to get to it.

Well, we don't, people with ADHD have a higher rate of addiction, but it's lower if you're on medication. I lost my very best friend to addiction. He wasn't managing it well. So it's these disorders. It's a good news diagnosis because it's treatable. It's not a cure for it. But as I said, it's multimodal treatment. So the medication is the biggest piece of the pie.

Circling back to your question, environmental management. Set up your environment to be conducive for what you need. So all those things that you need to remember to do, don't keep those in your head. Set up your environment to, you know, I always tell people the top lie that people with ADHD tell themselves and really believe is, yeah, I'll remember that. Thank you. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast,

our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts?

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And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason Bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, when I was on your show, we debated whether, you know, I have symptoms of ADHD or not, and I guess we didn't really debate it so much as we just discussed it and but it was one one of those things that you know i realized that you know years ago i finally gave up and and on trying to remember anything and i put systems in place that

kind of keep everything in order for me because without them, I, I really struggle. And with them, I seem to do okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, you know, learning the strategies around using a calendar and, and coming more, I call it teaching time wisdom versus time management because, you know, we can't really manage our time we can just manage ourselves across time right and so time wisdom is all about sort of accepting the fact that we're time blind right and then take a look at the beginning of those tasks that you think um like just make predictions how long do you think it takes you to make breakfast to uh you know to get yourself ready in the morning, to respond to email. Just make predictions of how long you think those things take you and actually track how long that stuff takes you.

Because when I'm trying to project and help my clients project how long things will take them, first, you got to know how long does it actually take you. Compare that to how long you thought it was going to take you. And so when I'm looking at a task, I say, okay, for sure, that's an hour, like no more than an hour. I know that means three hours, right? That's wisdom, right? It's like, take what my gut tells me. And then I go by what my history tells me. Right. To do that, we have to let go of shame. We have to let go of this feeling of, well,

I shouldn't have to do that or Or why should this take me this long? Let go of all the shitty thoughts and just look at what is and let's deal with it. Exercise, too, is a huge part of ADHD management. Sleep. So many people with ADHD have sleep issues. And it's not about staying asleep for most people. It's about getting yourself to get to bed. There's a very

specific type of procrastination that I first heard this term by a guy, Timothy Pitchell, who's a procrastination researcher. He has a podcast. We had him on the show. Great guy. So interesting. Sleep procrastination. And I first heard that, I'm like, that's exactly

what I do. It's so frustrating because when I get up in the morning, the 6.30 AM version of myself, I'm like, I am going to bed early tonight. I'm going to be in bed on time. And then it comes 10 o'clock and I'm like, one more thing, one more thing, one more thing. And then it's midnight. I'm like, damn it. I'll try again tomorrow. Focusing on doing like a morning routine is the thing that most people miss is like the most important part of that is a nighttime routine. You know, it's like, it's counterintuitive, but not really. If you think about it, it's like, well, yeah, if you want to get up at 630, you, you have to make yourself go to bed. And that's where, you know, and our world is designed to just keep us doing one thing after the other, after the other. I have this thing, I call it the

ADHD productivity sleep cycle, where we stay up late to finish work. So we're tired the next day and not very focused. So we have to then stay up late to finish work. Yep. Right. Yeah. And send a repeat. Yeah. For me, that's,

that's my, one of my biggest struggles. It's something I've struggled with for years and years and years. I made like three months of really good progress this, the start of this year. And so I do these, these 10 week coaching groups. And then in between my seasons of coaching,

so three weeks in between seasons, like nine hours of my structure of my week just like went away and so did all the progress in my sleep. It's like, no. So it's, you know, it's this mountain that I keep slipping down and climbing back up.

Yeah, you know, more and more I start to think that that's kind of the nature of a lot of things. Yeah. You know, is that like we make progress and we do really well and then we just don't. And the sooner that we just sort of go, oh, yep, all right, I did it again without, to use your word earlier, shame or remorse or all kinds of guilt and just go, oh, yep, all right, kind of slipped out of that. Time to get back to it. just go, oh, yep. All right. Kind of slipped out of that time to get back to it. It's one of the things I work with, with coaching clients on and why we try and structure our relationship to last

long enough so that that's inevitably, inevitably that's going to happen. You're going to do well, then you're not and fine. Now, how do we get back on track? As sure as we get on track, we get off of it. It seems to me, and then you just nothing to do, but get back on. That's right. And, you know, and, and one but get back on. That's right. And one of the, there's these kind of bite-sized phrases that we'll use for ADHD. And one of them is that ADHD is consistently inconsistent, right? You're rocking it for a few days and then you can't get anything done, right? And for a while, I used to focus on, because this is what a lot of the research and the treatment literature say, focus on helping your clients be more consistent.

And the more I sort of lived through that, I found that that's a false notion, I think. I think we have a better chance of overall doing better for longer if we just accept that we're going to fall off the horse and skip the whole part of beating yourself up when you notice you falling down and just get back up. I agree. I could not agree more. I think that is so fundamental. And again, it's funny when you start to talk about some of these things.

It's the same way, I think, with depression. You start to describe symptoms of depression and a lot of people will go, yeah, that i got that i got that right adhd too it sounds like right there's some of these symptoms you're describing that i think are matters of degree that everybody probably wrestles with absolutely to some extent and and that i think the nature of inconsistency although there are some people who appear to be robots, most people simply are not. And life doesn't kind of roll at us the same way over and over and over. And so, like you said, I love what you just said there about the sooner we accept that we're going to get off track, the better. Because then we could just get on with the business and get him back on track.

Yeah, I mean, when I'm working with my coaching groups, one of the things I make sure that they understand is I don't have all my shit together, right? Because I'm leading them in these groups and I think I have all my shit together. And it's like, no, no, no. Like all the stuff I'm teaching you right now about planning and everything else,

I'm like, I sometimes don't do this stuff too. Right. So it's like, I'm teaching you this stuff, but I just want you to be fully aware. And here, here's like the action plan for when I fall off the horse. Right. Yeah. You know, right now we're working through long-term planning. And for most of the people in my groups, they've never planned beyond like a week level in a year, which is what we're working on right now. Right. Right.

Like how do you actually like plan a year? And then how do you actually use that to plan your week? Right. And that's, which is what we're working on right now. Right. Like how do you actually like plan a year? And then how do you actually use that to plan your week? And that's what we're doing for someone. And you could see the emotion in so many of the people that are in these groups. They're a little bit overwhelmed. Like, how am I doing this? And like, well, if it's on my calendar, does that mean I have to commit to it? It's like, it's just a placeholder.

That's all it is. You can move it. Like, you know, it's just, it's putting down an intention you have in this moment for a moment that is not this moment. Right? And then you revisit it and you decide, is this still relevant? Right? Yeah. You articulated something so well that I spend a lot of time thinking about and focusing on it was separate decision from action.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So explain that one a little bit more. So many of the things that I really teach, this is because I've learned, like, I write about it, but then I'm like, oh, yeah, I've struggled with this thing for so long. And then I, you know, try to figure out how to, you know, what are the strategies and the workarounds and all the things that all the things that I hem and haw over. Decision-making is also an executive function that we tend to struggle with with ADHD.

So if we are going to make a decision about something, don't then go next to the action. So if you're looking at your planning, decide maybe in the morning, what's maybe the first two things you're going to work on that day? Don't first look at your calendar or go sit down with your calendar. maybe in the morning. All right, what's maybe the first two things you're going to work on that day? Right? Don't first look at your calendar or go sit down with your calendar, glance at all the stuff you got to do and then decide in that moment what you're going to work on

and then start working on it. Like plan ahead of time and ahead of time can be just an hour ahead of time, you know, whatever and say, all right, this is going to be the first task I'm going to do

and when I finish this, this will be the next task. So you've already made that decision, right? And then when it's time to sit down and work, then you don't have to figure out, all right, should I do this or should I do that? Like separate those things because executive function or decision-making is an executive function.

So when I was a kid, Eric, the most stressful thing was when my dad took me to the bakery and I had to make a choice between one of like 50 delicious looking like donuts. It stressed me out so much. I don't know. I don't know which one I want. And one of the things that I learned is that, you know, the pros and cons for most choices are about the same. So when they are about the same, just flip a coin and go with it. It's so funny how often I use flipping a coin. And again, I think it's so funny. You can look at this stuff because I think you and so funny. You can look at this stuff

because I think you and I are looking at things through slightly different lens, but you know, that's such a common depression symptom, which is, you know, inability to decide. Yeah. The thing I love about flipping a coin is that you don't necessarily have to choose the thing because a lot of times I'll be like, I don't know. I don't know. I'll flip a coin and then I'll get an answer. I'll be like, that's not the answer I wanted. And then I know. Exactly. And that's it. One other thing I want to bring up too is people say, oh, it's just ADHD. I just interviewed and had on the podcast was on episode 271, Dr. Russell Barkley, who was a kind of the world leading researcher around ADHD.

And he just did a study looking at the life expectancy for people with ADHD. And he took all these different variables that I found on correlating them with some of these actuarial calculators that some of the insurance companies made available. actuarial calculators that some of the insurance companies made available. And he showed that you can compare smoking, not exercising, heavy drinking, all these risk factors that as a society, we spend a lot of money, time, and effort on minimizing the health risks. ADHD has a greater negative correlation with life expectancy. So when people say it's just ADHD, in the point he's trying to make in his research, that this is not just a mental health disorder.

This is a public health crisis. for personality traits, right? That for people who are rated high on levels of conscientiousness, all those risk factors seem to kind of diminish, right? Because ADHD, in a sense, is a disorder of self-regulation, right? And so if you're conscientious, you're self-monitoring, you're self-regulating, you're checking in with yourself. You're taking into consideration, you know, if I eat five donuts, I'm not going to maybe feel so good tomorrow. Or if I don't start exercising or maintain this exercise, you know. And so the good news is all the risk factors that were identified are all changeable things. There's a lot of people who don't like this particular researcher because they're like, oh, he's so negative and he's also gloomy. It's like, he's a researcher reporting the science, right?

And you can bury your head in the sand and say you don't like what it says, right? But that doesn't mean that, you know, just because you don't like the fact that global warming is happening doesn't mean it's not happening. අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really Know Really podcast,

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Bobblehead. It's called Really, No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. More and more, I seem to see so many things through the lens of self-regulation. This ability to sort of decide what's important to us, know what's important to us, and manage ourselves along the way to kind of get there. To realize like, oh, you know, here's what's going on inside me. You know, we've talked to so many different people and so many different things, you know,

whether we're talking about ADHD, depression, procrastination, anxiety. I mean, they all have this element of the learning to self-regulate helps everything. It really is. I mean, this idea that, you know that attention deficit hyperactivity disorder is a really bad name for what it actually is. Because it's not that we always have a hard time with... It's not that it's always a deficit of attention. Sometimes we're paying way too much attention for way too long to the wrong thing. It's an issue of regulation. If you're interested in something, I mean,

it's about hyper-focus. Like you can hyper-focus for like 10 hours on something you're interested in. It's a really high likelihood that's ADHD if that happens to you regularly, right? It's not just flow, although it can feel like flow sometimes. But the challenge with hyper-focus and ADHD

is that it drains that executive function fuel tank, which is willpower, right? And we don't have the same amount of willpower every day and throughout the day, the more we use those executive functions, the more they diminish. And so when we get into hyperfocus, one of the things that happens

is it is now harder for our brain to restore those executive functions, right? So it takes us longer to recharge. So for creative types who need to have that full immersion in a creative project, it's okay if they need to do that, but then they also need to plan for that recovery time. So what are some other top strategies? So we've talked about time wisdom.

As I mentioned earlier, I do these coaching and accountability groups. And because ADHD is a disorder where we know what to do, but we don't always do what we know, accountability is such an important part of managing this disorder. And I'm really specific with my group members. It's shame-free accountability, but we also provide each other what I refer to as compassionate ass-kicking. So it's like, all right, we all get it. Like you said, you were going to do the thing. You didn't do the thing. We're not going to stop it.

Okay, yeah, I do that too. We could start with, yeah, I do that too. Okay, so when's your next opportunity to do that? We'll do things like one of the challenges that a lot of people with ADHD have is with transitioning. From stopping one task and going on to the next. I often refer to it as break failure. Or even a faulty on-off switch. Hard starting, hard stopping. So let's say I have to leave my office at 5 o'clock. I might share with my accountability partners

a selfie of myself in the car at a specific time that I said I would do it. So it's like, yes, I know that I need to do this. I also know that I do better with external accountability. And that's so true for so many of the people that I work with. So looking at other strategies, like looking at how do we look at our to-do list? How do we actually write our to-do list? How do we actually write our to-do list? One of the exercises that I do in my groups is called the anatomy of a to-do list,

where we really break down the language that we use in our to-do lists. And it's amazing how many people, how many just nouns I'll see on people's to-do list. Just doctor. What does that mean? Doctor. Like what doctor?

They're like, I don't know. How long has that been on your to-do list? A while. I think I know why. You don't even know what this means, right? So it's not just like call doctor. It's like the what, the why, the how, the when, right? And talking about, you know, really not just verbing,

you know, your to-do list, but I use the phrase of using a vision verb. So a word that can help you see the action that you're going to be taking. So instead of, you know, look into or find out, these are some of my favorite pseudo verbs, right? It's look into, unless your task involves like opening a drawer to find something, right? Look into should not be on your to-do list, right?

Google is a great vision verb because you know exactly what that screen looks like when you're at Google. You know, talk to is another one. Talk to Eric about this. Well, how am I going to talk to Eric, right? Is talk talk to eric about this well how am i going to talk to eric right is it a text is it a phone call is it an email right so use that as the vision verb now one of the other issues with adhd is you know we need the why like why do we need to do this what what's you know it was in the moment when we're writing it down, we feel the importance of it. But when we come to look at it again later, we forgot the importance of it. So all we see is this what without a why. So one of the things that I have started doing with

my groups and my clients is having this idea of raise your YQ. So play on words of IQ. Raise your Y. So W-H-Y-C-U-E. So don't just have the reminder about what you need to do. Have the reminder about why you said you wanted to do it, right? Because if you think that you're going to be able to recall that in the moment, it's just another lie you're telling yourself, all right? And no shame. It's just your brain kind of disconnects the emotional reasons why you want to do certain things right and so by scaffolding that around you by putting that okay so does it take another minute to to write all that

information on a to-do list sure does but how much time does it save by you know trying to figure out what the heck you meant by this task and looking for information. So yeah, I mean, it's really like breaking down the details of all this stuff. Sometimes we just don't realize that we haven't identified what that first action step is. Strategies for getting started. And on my podcast, one of the sort of opening phrase

of the podcast is we know that starting is the hardest part so let's get started i'm always asking you all right what is that very first action step and and for so many uh people before i you know they really start understanding how how to think through this stuff they're thinking so big and not realizing that sometimes the first step is just to get your butt out of the chair right and be like oh because sometimes our brain needs it broken down that much oh yeah yeah often often right i mean it's funny i i have a slide one of my presentations i say you know we could change the world we just have a hard time changing the laundry. Right? Because if it's boring, boring is a painful experience when you've got ADHD. So doing things that can help sort of the neurochemistry exercise, getting things that are excitement, rewards,

you know, are all helpful for managing ADHD. So you can look at it a number of ways. We can look at brain. So like exercise in between boring activities. So just getting more blood flow to the brain is going to help. If you can gamify stuff, that's great for a lot of people with ADHD. Having friendly competitions to get tasks done. We have something in my coaching groups that we call Adult Study Hall. And basically what Adult study all is.

So we all have these things that are, that I refer to as important stuff. That's boring, but important. Right. And stuff that we just like, we'd rather like poking those in our eyes than have to actually do these things,

but we have to do these things. So what we do is we do them together on zoom, right? Video conference. So we're all on, on camera. All of our microphones are muted, but we're them together on Zoom, right? Video conference. So we're all on camera. All of our microphones are muted, but we're just working on our own stuff. And it's like silly how effective this is.

You know, it's like, all right, I got to work on writing this report. And then I'm like, all right, I wonder about this thing. I'm about to go on the Google rabbit hole. And I look up and I see all these other people on the screen. It's like, no, I'm still going to keep writing this report. It's like, I'm going to go on the Google rabbit hole. And I look up and I see all these other people on the screen. It's like, no, I'm still going to keep writing this report. It's like, I'm going to go get myself a snack. It's like, oh, crap.

They're going to see me get out of my chair. No, I'm going to stay right here writing my report. And it's just a funny way that accountability can be really, really helpful. Just knowing that other people struggle with this kind of stuff and that you're not alone is so profoundly helpful. And that's why I only do group. You know, I used to, and I'm trained as a licensed clinical social worker, you know, so I used to do one-on-one therapy.

I started doing these, when I announced my very first coaching group, I totally announced it impulsively while recording a podcast. I was like, so I think I'm going to do these coaching groups. And if you're interested, you know, hit me up on my website and I'll have more information next week, which I said for eight weeks in a row as I was trying to figure out, wait, how am I going to do this? And then I got my first group going. That was about five years ago.

And it was just profound being able to see when other people can see themselves in other people right and they could see that wow like if you have lawyers and doctors and um you know by all measures people who are my groups are generally pretty successful um not everyone has that high level of education but some do. And then they hear how they view themselves and how they see themselves as a failure, as not enough. And then you're like, why are you saying this? You've done all these great things. And then you recognize that, wow, what you're saying out loud is the voice in my head. out loud is the voice in my head, right? And there's, you know, when we talk about conscientiousness and self-awareness being one of these huge components that, you know, that people with

ADHD tend to fall low on the conscientiousness scale, but this is something that can be taught, right? And when we can, instead of just like intellectualizing, oh yes, this is what other people do, but when you can see it and emotionally connect to other people who are going through some of the same struggles, and then you can see yourself in that. One of the things that so many people in my groups say is, you know, I joined the group because I wanted for them to be more productive. But what I really learned is how to be more comfortable in my own skin. more productive. But what I really learned is how to be more comfortable in my own skin.

I look at the work that I do as I'm very fortunate and grateful to be able to do this work. I've had over 500 people go through my groups. I've done over a thousand hours of group facilitation. It's the lives that I've seen change. One of my friends who is part of our we have an ADS- ADHD rewire podcast network, and he does want to call ADHD essentials and it's focused for more for parents and educators. And one of the phrases that he says, ADHD is like life on hard mode, right? It's kind of comparing it to like a video game. It's like life on hard, right? And yeah, you know but we can do hard things and that's i think where the you know that feeling of hope and encouragement really comes in in this group setting because these groups are intense we do three times a week for 10 weeks and we have people paired up with the

14 member accountability teams where they're checking in every day right it's you know like you almost can't go to the bathroom by yourself. Right. Cause it's really designed to provide the immersive, intense experience. And as you were saying, like you try to bring people through that point where they're, they're going to fall off the wagon. Right. Right. That's such an important, like a sort of phase of coaching is how to help people get through that, that point where this thing's no longer new, novel, or shiny. It's hard and you don't want to do it anymore, right? And how do you support them through that? And through that, people develop a sense of self-confidence

because they see, oh, I can do this for the long run. I wanted to quit and I stayed with this. do this for the long run. I wanted to quit and I stayed with this. And just the, what that instills in us is huge. Self-confidence doesn't come from people saying, attaboy. Self-confidence comes from doing hard things, persevering, failing and getting back up. I agree a hundred percent. You can't really think your way into confidence. It's something you've got to act your way into. Well, I think that is a great point for us to wrap up, Eric. I have really enjoyed talking with you, and I think this interview is going to be so helpful for people.

So thank you so much for taking the time to come on. Well, thanks for having me on and letting me share a little bit about ADHD because it's a good news diagnosis. And don't be afraid to go find out more information about it. Thanks so much, Eric. You and I are going to continue talking in the post-show conversation. We're going to talk about meditation and ADHD. Listeners, if you're interested in getting the post-show conversations, as well as weekly mini episodes, you can go to oneufeed.net slash support. Thanks again so much, Eric, for coming on. Thanks so much. Okay. Bye. If what you just heard was helpful to you,

please consider making a donation to the One You Feed podcast. Head over to oneyoufeed.net slash support. The One You Feed podcast would like to sincerely thank our sponsors for supporting the show. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you?

We have the answer. Go to reallyknowreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really Know Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.