The One You Feed - Josh Shipp

Episode Date: March 10, 2015

Josh Shipp aka “The Teen Whisperer” is a former at-risk foster kid turned teen advocate. His TV series TEEN TROUBLE (A&E / Lifetime) documented his work with teens in crisis. He is the author of “The Teen’s Guide to World Domination“, and was listed on Inc. Magazine’s 30 under 30 list. He helps adults understand teens & teens understand themselves. He’s spoken at universities such as Harvard, Stanford, MIT & UCLA and has contributed to Good Morning America, Oprah, 20/20, MTV, CNN, The New York Times and many other media outlets. Eric and Josh dive into topics that apply to everyone, not just teens and parents. For More Information visits our websiteSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I feel like we, as humans, have sort of good behavior amnesia. If a 48-hour period has passed when you got up early and got your day started before the kids got up, or exercise first thing, I feel like once 48 hours passes, you just completely forget that was a good idea, there was any benefit from it. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like, garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.

We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor,

what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallyknowreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really Know Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Our guest today is Josh Shipp, aka the Teen Whisperer. Josh is a former at-risk foster kid turned teen advocate. His TV series Teen Trouble on A&E

Lifetime documented his work with teens in crisis. He is the author of The Teen's Guide to World Domination and helps adults understand teens and teens understand themselves. Josh has spoken at universities such as Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and UCLA, and has contributed to Good Morning America, Oprah, 2020, MTV, CNN, The New York Times, and many other media outlets. Here's the interview. Hi, Josh. Welcome to The New York Times, and many other media outlets. Here's the interview. Hi, Josh. Welcome to the show. Hey, Eric. I'm glad to have you on. I first got introduced to you and your work. I have teenage boys, so I came across you and was really inspired by the work that you do with teens, and I got interested in that. And then as that kind of went on, I realized that the things you were saying were really applicable to anybody trying

to live a better life. So I'm excited to explore some of those things with you. Yeah, looking forward to chatting about anything and everything. So our show is, as you know, The One You Feed, and it's based on the parable of two wolves, where there's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love. And the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second. He says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. I love that parable. And I heard it for the first time

a couple years ago. And even prior to that, it's something that I think about quite a bit, because for me, I know left to myself, left unchecked, that I will just naturally gravitate towards, even though it's embarrassing to say, and I wish this wasn't true, I will gravitate towards selfishness, self-centeredness, thinking about what's only best for me, what is sort of more ideal in the moment instead of long term? And all these things that would have sort of nice consequences in the short term, but detrimental consequences in the long term. So for me, when I think about that good wolf idea, I really lean into that it's not just

enough to want to feed the good wolf. I mean, of course, none of us would say that we want to mess up our lives or mess up our relationships or not sort of optimize whatever it is in our life that's important to us. But for me, I think of the importance of having a strategy around how is it that I'm going to feed that good wolf? What sort of checks and balances am I going to have in my life to make sure that on the days that I don't feel like feeding the good wolf, which are frequent, which are often, which happen quite a bit, how even on those days am I going

to have checks and balances and people that I've placed in my life and given them the authority to remind me of what I claimed I wanted to do when I was thinking clearly and in a good place so that when those inevitable bad times come and I mistake, which I do often, and I mistake the bad wolf for the good wolf, that, you know, that I'll be that someone or something or some discipline or some habit or structure will sort of turn me back towards that good wolf. There were a lot of great things that you said in there. And I'm interested in a question. So I'm going to just recap your backstory really fast. And this will be a way too short version. But for folks who are interested there, you know, Josh is out a lot of places on the internet, and you can hear this. But essentially, your backstory is you were abandoned

at birth by your mother. You went through a series of foster homes, kind of in and out of trouble, until you finally, in your later teens, landed with a family that, you know, was kind of instrumental in helping you turn your life around. And in the beginning of where you're just talking, you mentioned that you have issues with feeding the good wolf, like that your mind goes to a default place of where you maybe don't make the best decisions. And I'm kind of curious, do you think that that is a universal human condition? Do you think that is a result of, you know, kind of a challenging childhood? I'm just always fascinated by by people's opinions on that. Well, to be honest, I think it's a little bit of both. I think that all of us can tend to lean towards our own best interest,

you know, being selfish, self-centered, these sorts of things. You know, I think all of us can sort of lean towards that if we're, again, not unchecked, if, you know, if things get stressful, if things get difficult, I think that all of us can lean towards that. But also because of my specific personality, challenges growing up, strengths and weaknesses, the strengths thing has been fascinating because you would think, okay, my weaknesses, I have to safeguard against those. But actually, sometimes our strengths, My weakness is I have to safeguard against those. But actually, sometimes our strengths, left unchecked, can become a weakness. So I think some of the things that I have to guard against are very, very universal.

But I think some of the things are specific to me, whereas it might be fine for – I'll give you a very specific example so we're not just speaking vaguely. I have to, all right, so because I was left by my parents, one of the sort of fallouts of that, be it for good or bad, is that I have an incredible drive to sort of prove myself. Now, in my sessions with my therapist, he would sort of say, you know, this is you trying to prove to your mother or to your parents that you're worthwhile, that you're worth keeping, that you're valuable. And so the downside of that can be that this sort of drive that I have, if left unchecked, would wander into workaholism. I'm married now, I'm a parent now. And so I could just sort of block out everything for the sake of trying to

achieve something. And I could mask it in I'm providing for my family, or I'm an ambitious individual, or I'm an entrepreneur. So I have to have insanely strict boundaries around my working hours. So I have very strict hours that I work. When I'm done with that work, I give my wife my laptop, she locks it away from me. This is all true. If she was here now, you could ask her and she would back it up. My cell phone, I have an iPhone, but it's so dumb because it's basically just an over-expensive, like all I can do is place calls and text. I can't email, I can't YouTube, I can't Facebook, tweet, I mean, nothing. Some people, probably most people, don't need to go to that extreme. But for me, not only is it a good idea, but ultimately it's a must. I remember reading a book by Dr. Henry Cloud, and he said, where pray and dream that I would have good structures

or, excuse me, that I could sort of limit myself. And some days I could, and probably most days I could. But it's not the some days and the most days that I'm worried about. It's those days where I'm feeling vulnerable and and so I it's it's harder to leave that checked or to leave that in a spot where I want it to be yeah and I think the other thing to that is even the days that it's not necessarily a problem as in you can overcome it you know at least for me with those things in my life that, you know, I might lack maturity and in need structure that takes a it takes energy, it takes something out of me to be in that resist mode to some degree. And so the less of that, you know, the more the less of that I'm

faced with, the more, you know, power and energy I have to bring to other parts of my life. Yeah, I love that. I love it. Yeah, it's a really interesting way to think about it. love that. I love, yeah, it's a really interesting way to think about it. And for me, it's actually quite freeing to place, you know, a structure or a person and give them the authority to kind of hold that line for me. So, you know, like you said, I don't have to think about it. I don't have to sort of muster up the courage or the energy to do such. But setting it up, you know, setting up that structure, be it a person or be it some sort of workaround like, you know, stripping email from your phone or something. The setting up of that, I think, is the massive barrier because, you know, it's inconvenient. And in those moments of inconvenience, you will begin to minimize how serious the issue is. You know, it's inconvenient to go to someone and sort of admit a flaw or a fault and say, I need you to text me every day at a certain time and ask me if I've done this thing that while I'm thinking clearly, I want to be committed to. There's just a lot of inconveniences and a lot of hurdles and a lot of opportunities

for your mind to turn on you and begin to sort of justify and say, nah, it's not that big of a deal and you're doing okay right now and you can handle it most days. But I think if we can get over that, and I think when you have that moment of clarity where you're like, man, this is a structure I need to place into my life. To me, the further down the court you can move the ball that day or even that hour before you chicken out or justify or excuse or whatever, which we all do, trust me, I'm throwing myself under the bus here as well, the more likely you are to actually set up that structure and then actually begin to sort of benefit from the result of that structure. You bring up a really interesting point there, which I'm always interested in, is that for

better or worse, a lot of us are catalyzed into action by some degree of dissatisfaction or pain, which is, you know, some of us are, some of us need more of that than others, but, but that tends to be one of the primary motivators. And you mentioned that, that phenomenon of when I get a little bit further away from that, then suddenly that sting of that, that pain goes away. And I start thinking, well, maybe I don't need these things. Or do you have any thoughts on how, when we start getting into that perspective, to stay on the track that we decided at some previous point was important? Because that is a really tricky thing, whether you're talking about something like

recovery from drug addiction, or you're talking about losing weight. I mean, that that that dynamic plays out. Yeah, awesome question. That's why I love your podcast. To me, I think you have to ahead of time, strip, strip away your authority, and strip away your ability to make a different decision. So, you know, the laptop thing, giving it to my wife here, you know, I'm going to end my workday at this time, lock it away from me. I had to be very intentional in that day of thinking clearly. And truth be told, my motivation for that decision was based off a little bit of bad and a little bit of good.

Like certain days where I was overworking and exhausted and not being there for my family and kind of there physically, but gone emotionally. And some good days where I had boundaries, where I shut it down at a specific time and really took a moment and then fully engaged with my family. But I had to specifically say to Sarah, listen, I'm going to come to you from time to time with, look, I speak for a living. I'm going to come to you with persuasive, dynamic, convincing arguments. And regardless of how inspirational or persuasive or whatever kind of tweetable phrase I come up with or whatever garbage, like, do not trust me then. Trust me now. You know, trust me today. Like, this is a problem. This is something I need to get in check. This is something I need help with.

You know, maybe a year from now, we can have a conversation of, you know, a little bit gentler boundary, but certainly not any time before then. And again, all this stuff is inconvenient, which is why most people want a certain result in their life, but most people don't get it. It's not because they lack earnestness. It's not because when they say, I want a better relationship or I want better boundaries with my work or, you know, whatever, with my health, whatever. It's not that they don't mean it. It's not that they're not genuine.

It's not that they're not earnest or whatever in that desire. It's not that they're not earnest or whatever in that desire. It's that we are unwilling to set up those sort of those boundaries that that strictness and that just all that ickiness that comes from committing and setting yourself up to something that deep down I don't think any of us want to be set up to. I think we'd rather be able to, I mean, it's not the American dream to do whatever you want, whenever you want, and have all the money and freedom and energy and time to do such. But, you know, I think if we were really given that, at least for me, that would just lead to destruction. Oh, yeah, that idea that if I had nothing to do and could do whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted is damn near killed me. In the past, it's it's not a format that works well for me. Going back to what you said there, I thought there was something really interesting, because it was another question I had for you. And you touched on it by saying, well, you know what, my motivation is a little bit of pain, right? And then the fact that it's sort of good. And I think that, you know, ideally, that's the way that at least for me, when there's been success, it started out as this thing was painful. And then eventually, the reason I kept doing it was because I can't remember the pain that well, I kept doing it because what I was getting out of it was enough. And you've got a phrase, I've heard you say that it's not enough to say

no to things, you also have to know what to say yes to. And I think that's kind of on that same theme. Yeah, and I really see this in my work with at-risk youth. It's like it's clear they need to say no to drugs or no to whatever it is that they're doing and involved in that's sort of leading them down a bad road. But you're right. that's not just enough. I mean, it's not, you know, because drugs, you know, the drugs are fun for an hour or for a period of time or whatever. You know, anyone who would be honest with themselves would go, yeah, okay, I get that. But what is it leading to long term? So, you know, I think we can, I think no is only motivating for a short period of time,

you know, you know, kind of getting away from that pain is only motivating for a short period of time, but what is it going to actually give me long-term? What is the benefit going to be long-term? And I, and I think you've got to be as important as this is, I think you've got to be, as important as this is, I think you also have to be thinking soberly and clearly about how long you should expect before that positive shows up. Yeah. Let me give you an example. When I was in the foster homes and bouncing, bouncing around in the foster homes and really sort of oppositional and defiant and this and that, um, every social worker and foster parent I had sort of their solution was we need to get this kid counseling, which, you know what, they were right. But, but what I wasn't prepped with entering into counseling was this. Your first five or six or seven or ten sessions, you're going to leave feeling worse than when you entered that counselor's office.

And so when that would inevitably happen, I would think, oh, crap, it's not working. happen, I would think, oh crap, it's not working. Like, you know, the counselor must not be a fit, or I don't really need to sit in there and talk about my childhood and do the kumbaya thing. You know, this isn't working. Versus realizing that, you know, that pain, that discomfort, that, you know, all of that is actually a sign of growth. Just like going to the gym, if you were working out, that soreness, that discomfort, those sorts of things are actually a sign of growth. So I think if we can also try to be realistic or ask someone who's been down the road

of setting up boundaries or getting counseling or whatever difficult thing you're gonna have to thrust yourself into to grow. Hey, at what point should I begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel? At what point should I begin to expect some sort of result? And then based on that answer, and for me, most of the answers I eventually heard when I was 15 and started to slowly get my stuff together was, hey, you know what, Josh? Ten sessions are probably going to be terrible and you're going to hate them. But after that, hey, you know what, Josh, 10 sessions are probably

going to be terrible and you're going to hate them. But after that, it should get a little bit better. So I could at least sort of bribe myself into or somehow cajole myself into thinking, all right, the first 10 are going to suck, like just hang in there. And then if after session 11 or 12, it still seems terrible. Now you have permission to walk away. Now you have permission to try to go find another counselor. Now you have permission to maybe begin to debate whether or not counseling is for you, but you do not have that authority sessions 1 to 10. I mean, I think that's such an important point. I was just on somebody else's podcast recently and talking about the same thing. We were talking about recovery from alcohol and drugs. And I just said, you know, if there was one thing I could tell people out there who were wrestling with that is that that process of getting sober is awful.

So you can't think that that's what you're, you know, you can't compare that. You can't think this is what sobriety is and it's awful. So I'm not going to bother because there's just a transition period that's really bad. And you got to get on the other side of that to see what this thing really is like. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor.

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You say that you have to second guess your initial emotional reaction because there are ghosts in your past. And I think that's interesting because I agree with that 100%. I have to, too. But there's so much going around now about, you know, our intuition is always right. Always trust your gut. And I'm just kind of curious your thoughts on that. Yeah. So to be very frank with you, and I've never quite discussed it in this way publicly, but for me, eventually when I was, I think, 19 or so, I started going to church, and Christianity, religion kind of became an important part of my life. It's not, you know, I'm not going out there preaching or doing those sorts of things or trying to influence kids in that way, but for me personally, it's something

that matters to me. It's something that's important and earnest to me, and it's something that's been beneficial for my life and my family. And part of what I've learned through my faith and part of what my faith teaches is that sort of, you know, we are, again, left to ourselves sort of, quote, sinful, meaning we kind of want to do the thing that feels good but is bad for us. So I think that has certainly informed my thinking around this idea, which is not to trust my gut or to trust my heart or these sorts of things that might be thrown around, or to trust my heart, or these sorts of things that might be thrown around, but rather to guard my heart, to second guess my motivation or my intent for doing something, and really question, and if it's serious enough, ask others who really know me, meaning the good side of me and the bad side of me, like, hey, does my motivation for doing this thing seem pure? Is there something off here?

Does something smell fishy about this situation based on my strengths and weaknesses, the good of me and the bad of me? So, you know, I think partly my faith, but also partly having friends who everything is about just a feeling, like it felt right or the situation seemed right or these sorts of things. For me, that's just not good enough. Wishful thinking is not a strategy. I may wish and hope that I would have pure intents, and most of the time I do, but sometimes I don't. And, you know, I would wish that I would always want to be selfless and serve my family and put my wife and my kids' best interest at heart. But I know, honestly,

interest at heart. But I know, honestly, as much as I wish this wasn't true, that's not always the case. So for me, I would rather guard and question sort of my motives, my heart, my intent, my feelings, and get some feedback there. And then if everything seems to check out, if everything seems to be clear and level-headed, then indeed proceed. But I want to pump the brakes a little bit more before I step on the gas. is that I need to give these things a little bit, a lot of things consideration, because kind of just following my best ideas at certain points in the past has been very destructive. Now, it's not nearly as destructive as it used to be, but they're still there. And it made me think of something else that we interviewed a gentleman recently. The episode may or may not be out when listeners hear this, but he said something. He's very focused on behavior. He's very much about like, Hey, feel what you're feeling,

acknowledge it, and then take whatever the next right action is, which I think a lot, you know, I think aligns very closely with a lot of things that you're saying, but he said something that really struck me. And he said, when our behavior is not in control, we can't trust our feelings. And that really hit me because, you know, at certain points in my past, a stray start to be a little bit more open about exploring how I feel, instead of trying to tamp those down just out of fear. Yeah, I love that. And to me, it would raise the question of, when your feelings are out of control, how are you going to know? I mean, is it just, is it just relying on you sort of taking your own sort of temperature and being able to recognize it quick enough? Or do you have someone in your life who can call you on it and say, yes, things seem off

here, what's going on? And this is an interesting thing that happens now in my work with what I do. And, you know, I'm a successful entrepreneur and have experienced sort of, you know, success in my niche industry. There's this interesting thing that happens professionally when you become successful, regardless of your field or your niche or whatever success means. But success can often bring sort of autonomy, meaning less people can call you on it. There's less checks and balances for your decisions and for your behavior. And I think you have to intentionally build in a group of people or a person or two or someone who can call you on your crap and call you out when your behavior's off or your emotions are off, your decisions are off,

or you're too harsh or you're not decisive enough or these sorts of things. Otherwise, I feel like you could get pretty far off and not even be aware of it. When I think back to being a foster kid, one of the saddest things that I recall is not the abuse or not having biological parents or whatever. As weird as it sounds, you kind of get over that pretty quickly because it's just normal to you. But the saddest thing I recall is thinking that my behavior was 100% justified, healthy, and fine. And it wasn't like I was trying to lie to myself. I genuinely believed it. I genuinely believed these social workers or these foster parents who are trying to say,

look, you're a good kid, but you need help. I thought they were naive. I thought they were crazy. I thought I have my stuff together. They need to get their stuff together. What's wrong with them? So, you know, I think sometimes we can deceive ourselves into a position. deceive ourselves into a position. And so whether it be out of isolating through success or isolating out of fear of allowing those voices in your life and intentionally inviting them in and giving people permission, and you have to give people permission. You have to say, listen, I want you to make me cry from time to time. Like if you're not being that harsh, you're not trying. And most other people in my life are just going to be polite and kind and, oh yeah, good job and blah, blah, blah. But that's not what I need. That's not what I need from you.

I can get that in a hundred other places, but what's rare is, you know, someone who will tell you straight up, you know, I'm concerned about this, you know, you might want to second guess this, you might want to look at this a little closer, these sorts of things. I think all of us need that sort of ambassador in our life. So we so we know when we're off, or we know when we're not. I agree that that's so important. And what I found interesting is having spent a lot of my adult life in recovery culture, where that's kind of a common thing, right? That's, that's what being a friend means. Stepping outside of that, into more into just say, you know, regular culture, there's a lot, what I've realized is that permission piece is a big

part of it. Like, particularly for me, when someone else I have to find out, like, what is the communication I'm having with someone when they're communicating with me? What are they looking for here? Because if they haven't given me permission for that, boy, I get myself in all kinds of trouble trying to tell them, right? Like, here's what I see. I mean, my motive is that I really want to be helpful. But I think that, and I think that if we haven't given somebody permission, then when someone does that to us, it's the almost the only inevitable response is to be somewhat defensive. And that's why I think, to your point, it's so good to say to certain people, hey, I really want you to do that. And then we've kind of opened that door. And we can listen to

them versus someone who we haven't given that permission to. Oh, dude, I hear you a hundred percent. I have, I have realized the, the hard way, the painful way that the only people I give advice to are people that ask for it. Otherwise you're wasting both individuals times. um you know you can you can want someone to change you can want someone to improve you can you can want that all day long but until they want that from themselves and you know they ask the question or or give you permission or say hey what do you think of the situation be honest honest with me. Now you have the authority. Now you have permission and your words are actually going to be useful and helpful instead of you just being the boy who cried wolf and spouting off great information, but no one's listening. when, when does someone, including myself, like, when am I, when do I need somebody to sort of hear what I'm saying and understand? And when do I need someone to, you know, help me course

correct? And maybe sometimes it's, you know, it's both first it's here and understand and then, and then the course correct piece. But I'm always interested in that. I seem to, it seems to be the paradoxes that, that draw me, draw my interest in life. And the one that I explore a lot on the show is, you know, you have a feeling and we tend to go one of two ways with that one is we just indulge it. And we wallow in it. And we you know, we roll around in it. Or the other is, we can go to the other extreme and just do whatever we can to make that feeling go away. And some of those things are overtly destructive, right? Like I'm going to just go get hammered. That's one way to make it go away. But as you described, you can be very productive and work very hard and make that feeling go away. And I'm

always interested in how people find that balance with themselves between that indulging and that repressing. Yeah, I mean, this, this reminds me a lot of actually, you know, a challenge that I've that I've had in my in my marriage, because my what I do for a living just the way I think is, all right, here's a problem. Let's figure out a solution. Here's sort of a situation. Okay, what tactically can be done? But sometimes my wife is just like, I don't need advice. I don't want you to solve it for me. I just want to be heard. Okay, yes, I see. All right, I just need to listen. And then perhaps later with that, ideally, then some sort of action or something stems from that.

Yeah, and what I find that I wrestle with is, I won't name whether what relationships in my life it's a part of, because I'd like to keep those relationships, but is when that that seems to be a repeated pattern. And I sit there and I watch like what appears to be self inflicted pain. And then I sit and I listen and I and I hear it and I'm trying to it's and some of that is a judgment. But I know I wrestle with it and I'm trying to, and some of that is a judgment, but I know I wrestle with that where I'm like, I know you just want me to listen, but I get hung up on that sometimes where I want to, it's just hard to watch people you care about

repeat the same sort of painful patterns, even if they're pretty minor, but it's this, the self-inflicted wounds. I relate to that 100%. And, you know, talk about a clear example of someone calling me out on something is that, you know, a buddy of mine that I give permission to, to call me out on stuff. He said, Josh, you have this, you have this broken thinking that, that there are basically two options, that you can either help someone or that you can sort of

enable someone. And you think those are the only two options. So, you know, I believe that, you know, just hearing someone out is sort of enabling, like, oh, that's interesting. Yeah, you did the same thing over and over and over and over, and you still got that negative result. Oh, interesting. Wow, I'm really surprised you know so i i view it as either like that like enabling and just being a part of the problem or that it's like got to attack it and hold you accountable and and harsh and let's get up in its face and this and that um so i'm i'm really having to learn kind of i guess the gray areas of life of, you know, how can you, without compromising either, how can you really sort of hear someone out, try to understand what they're feeling or whatever

that's in their mind. None of us are stupid. That in their mind is justifying the behavior or excusing it or allowing it or whatever. and then just ask questions to find out whether or not they're ready to get on with sort of the, the solving of it and, you know, okay, well, would you like to hear how other people have dealt with that? Or, you know, would you like to hear this interesting thing that I've read about someone else who went through that same sort of thing? Um, and if they're not there, then, then very well, but that's, it's been interesting sort of thing. And if they're not there, then very well. But that's been an interesting sort of struggle for me as a guy who had a hard life, went through challenges, made enough of my own challenges to still have that compassion piece. Because to me, it's just

like if I hear a sob story, it's like, suck it up. I was a foster kid. Who cares? Let's deal with this. So I wrongly or rightly have little compassion for sort of the whining component. But I'm beginning, though slowly, to see sometimes that whining or really more accurately sort of expressing it, talking it out, getting this stuff off your chest. I guess can be a part of the process. I don't feel like I really yet have arrived at believing this, but I know it's true and it's something I'm trying to grow in and move towards myself. Yeah, well, I will give you back one of your own phrases with that because I agree, I wrestle with everything you just talked about. But when you said that, you were talking about talking it out and i realized that one of your

phrases that i like is what you don't talk out you act out yep yeah that's so true and you know you see it with with uh you know friends loved ones you know kids i work with, you know, these are, these are folks that are typically, you know, uh, you know, decent, good human beings. Um, you know, and I see this in my own life. It's like I could, you know, I have something stressful happen in my business or, um, it was someone I work with or whatever, and I haven't quite resolved it. And the ego side of me doesn't want to talk it out with my wife or whatever. So, you know, it's easier for me to sort of take it out on her, or maybe I feel out of control with something at work. And so I try to control the situation with my family instead of, okay, what's really going on here? Let me sort of talk through this, get this off my chest. So it's not

sort of bubbling up in other ways. I mean, you definitely see that with kids. They either, they either flip in or flip out, you know, they just sort of take it out on everyone or they talk to no one about it, which neither is good, neither is ideal. And particularly flipping in and talking to no one about it, then not only do you have a problem, which we all, then not only do you have a problem, which we all do, not only do you have challenges you're dealing with, which we all do, but no one knows. And it's sort of the secret silent thing eating away at you that you're not only not giving other people permission to help with,

but you're sort of not giving yourself permission to face. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer.

We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you. And the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Hello, my friend.

Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really, No Really.

Yeah, Really. No Really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When you were just talking about that, you know, sort of sharing what's happening with your family, it made me think of one of the challenges I have with that is if, you know, at least for me, I've been thinking about these, these, you know, again, I just use the word personal development or whatever ideas for so long that I usually feel

like I know what the answer is in my head. And so then I just don't, I go, well, what am I getting, you know, I'm going to go tell somebody. So what, what are they going to, they're going to tell me what I already know, like, what's the point. And I know, I'm going to go tell somebody. So what, what are they going to, they're going to tell me what I already know. Like, what's the point? And I'm amazed again and again by two things. One is how often just connecting with another person around it helps, you know, regardless of even if, you know, they don't have something, a particular piece of advice. So I'm kind of amazed at how often that helps. And I'm amazed at how hard it is for me to ever learn that lesson

consistently without having to relearn it, like after I sit on it for a month and I go, maybe I should, you know, it's just, it's amazing. I feel like we as humans have sort of good behavior amnesia. You know, if a 48 hour period has passed when you, you know, got up early and got your day started for the kids got up or exercise first thing or talked out an issue or whatever. I feel like once 48 hours passes, you just completely forget that was a good idea, there was any benefit from it, any of that sort of thing.

So that sucks. I really have no solution for it, but I just noticed that. I've just said probably hundreds of times in my life, I don't know why I still have to wrestle with exercise because it is one of those things that every single time is a very positive thing for me. And I immediately feel better. And yet it is still what you'd think something that that was that good that had that many benefits with no, no downside, I would consume it like a drug. And I know, you know, people, you can get to that point. But it's still for me, one of those things that I

have to sort of gently push myself to do. Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, it's almost like we need a almost like some sort of journal or some sort of log that we can remind ourself of like, no, no, this, this works, you'll. You'll be glad that you did this. I've heard you say that, you know, so we can look at our lives and we could look out there and, you know, so say somebody who says, boy, I would love to inspire young people. And they look out and they see Josh Shipp, right? And they go, that's what I want.

You know, that's what I want to do. But what I've heard you say is don't go get training and accountability on how to be Josh ship, go get training and accountability on the first three steps you need to take along that long journey, because obviously, you know, to get to the point you've gotten in your career has taken, you know, probably well over a decade, you know, so I just thought that was an interesting perspective to be looking at what I need help on is these things that are right in front of me that almost seem mundane. Yeah, I mean, it definitely takes 10 years to become an overnight success. And it's a challenge I faced early on is that I would look out on the landscape and identify a mentor

or someone I looked up to, you know, a Zig Ziglar or what have you and be like, a mentor or two or someone I looked up to, you know, a Zig Ziglar or what have you and be like, okay, they're sort of a proven entity, a proven model. So therefore success can only mean Zig Ziglar, you know, a success can only mean insert the name of your mentor or your hero or your role model. And, you know, I think instinctively we know like, okay, I don't want to be a cookie cutter. That's not going to be as valuable or interesting or compelling or those sorts of things. But I think there's a sort of deeper fear component happening of just like, they're proven, we're not, you know, they're tested and proven and we're not yet. And so I think two things. I think number one, you have to stay ambitious, but also be fine with crappy first drafts because anything in life,

my opinion, that ends up being great starts as a crappy first draft. And you just have to be willing to swallow your pride, your ego, and go through the painful process of being a crappy first draft. It doesn't mean that your intention is crappy or that your motivation is crappy or that your earnestness is crappy. It just means probably you have a very fine taste in what you should be, and you're not yet going to be there because being there is not given to a select few. It's earned through hours and hours of ego crushing, fine tuning, and improvement. And then the second point is, yeah, don't, you know, use the one day I want to be Josh Shipp or Zig Ziglar or whoever, you know, that's your carrot. That's the thing you can

fantasize about when it gets really, really difficult, but it's not going to help you move the needle immediately. What helps you move the needle immediately is not doing what I'm doing now, but doing what I did 10 years ago. What are those initial first steps? What are those first steps? And only get your training and accountability around those first few steps. Otherwise, step 10 or 100 or 1,000, you're never even going to get the chance to take. Yeah, I think that's such great advice. It's really easy to just get lost in what to do. great advice. It's really easy to just get lost in what to do. You know, what, what is the path to becoming, you know, let's just say you, you know, motivational speaker was your thing. You could

find a thousand different things on the internet about doing that and all, and, but, but a lot of it is, is just like you said, what, what are the first couple of things that I can do right where I'm at? And I just believe so much in that sort of start right where you are right now. And you can take steps in whatever direction you want. I'm always amazed by what a series of what seemed like inconsequential small steps look like over a period of time. It's remarkable. Yeah, the internet's tricky because it can bring mentors very close to you.

But there can also be sort of a deep dive into mentor porn, where you're just like constantly looking up other speakers or other coffee shop owners or other graphic artists, and you're just comparing and you're feeling worse and worse about yourself as a human being and an artist and this and that. and you're just constantly spending your days comparing or judging or getting mad at them or, you know, thinking that if they reply to your email, that's going to make your career or whatever, instead of like, no, let me figure out what my, you know, first couple steps are and get about the difficult, challenging, frustrating work of doing those. Yeah, that's funny. Mentor porn. That's good. But I yeah, you're absolutely right. That's that there is a lot of that. And if it's not being

comparing ourselves or being frustrated, it is, you know, spending our time dreaming of what it would be like to be there instead of, you know, doing the doing the work we, like you said that we need to do kind of right here today. And by the way, there is the exact same thing as here. I mean, right now, I am, you know, 10 years later and I'm a success and here I am on your podcast and blah, blah, blah, whoop-dee-doo. But 10 years later, I, you know, new levels, new devils, like there are things I am overwhelmed by.

There are things I have no idea how to handle and I'm having to seek out mentors and training and accountability around. Um, you know, so don't kid yourself in thinking that, you know, one day when you reach a promised land, that it's just going to be easy and, and always fun and always, you know, you know, completely void of training and accountability and those sorts of things. When you reach that there, all of that is going to be there as well. So, you know, when you're starting, you have the opportunity to sort of train those muscles,

train that humility of going out and getting training or help or coaching or support or therapy or whatever the case may be to overcome those current hurdles, because the hurdles are always going to be there as you continue to grow in your influence. Yeah, I think there's a deep fantasy in a lot of us that we will reach a level where everything will be easy. Life will just be easy and we'll always be happy. And I just don't think that's the way, by and large, we're designed. I don't think that exists. And yet, we set ourselves up to think that when we get there, that'll happen. And so it's always that tricky balance for me of I'm striving, I'm growing, I want to go to these different places. And yet, I also know how to be completely appreciative and happy with right where I'm thriving, I'm growing. I want to go to these different places. And yet I also know how to be completely appreciative and happy with right where I'm at today. Because if we don't have that skill, it doesn't matter what level we get to, we won't enjoy it.

Yeah, yeah. And we say we want that life that's easy and no stress and no challenges. But I don't really, I don't really think we would. I agree. I certainly think I would be, you know, bored out of my mind and probably get into all kinds of trouble. Exactly. All right, Josh. Well, thanks so much. This has been a really fun conversation. I've been looking forward to talking to you for a while, so I'm glad we got to do this. Yep.

Cool, man. All right. Thanks, Josh. All right, Eric. Take care. Take care, man. Okay, bye. Bye. Bye.

You can learn more about Josh Shipp and this podcast at oneufeed.net slash Josh.