The One You Feed - Karen Valencic

Episode Date: June 10, 2015

This week we talk to Karen Valencic about using movement to get unstuckKaren Valencic is the founder of Spiral Impact, an Indianapolis-based speaking, training and development company, which she founded in 1992. Valencic leverages her expertise in communication, science and martial arts to provide a distinct perspective on performance improvement. Karen is the author of the book Spiral Impact: The Power to Get It Done with Grace, and the handbook Giving Deliberate Feedback for Leaders.As a black belt in Aikido, the Japanese art of reconciliation, Karen weaves examples from the martial art practice mat into her writing and speaking. Aikido is a martial art based on position rather than force. Prior to establishing Spiral Impact, Karen utilized her degree in Mechanical Engineering as a project engineer in the automobile industry. Our Sponsor This Week is Aloha- Try their new Plant Based Superfood Smoothie Kit. Enter GETFIT20 for 20% off your order.  In This Interview Karen and I Discuss...The One You Feed parableAikido: The Japanese Art of ReconciliationPosition vs. ForceHer book: Spiral Impact: The Power to Get it Done With Grace For more show notes visit our website Some of our most popular interviews that you might also enjoy:Dan HarrisMaria PopovaTodd Henry- author of Die EmptyRandy Scott HydeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's so much harder to get out of something than it is to get into something. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like, garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction,

how they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallyknowreally.com

and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really No Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Our guest today is Karen Valensik, founder of Spiral Impact, an Indianapolis-based speaking, training, and development company. Karen leverages her expertise in communication, science, and martial arts to provide a distinct perspective on performance improvement.

Karen is the author of the book Spiral Impact, The Power to Get It Done with Grace, and the handbook Giving Del feedback for leaders as a black belt in aikido the japanese art of reconciliation karen weaves examples from the martial art practice into her writing and speaking aikido is a martial art based on position rather than force here's the interview hi karen welcome to the show hey thank you er It's a pleasure. I'm glad to get you on. Your book is called Spiral Impact, The Power to Get It Done with Grace. Yes. And we will dig more into that here in a minute, but let's start off with the parable. There's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle.

One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love. And the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second and he looks up at his grandfather and he says, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. Well, one thing, what a fabulous grandfather to have had. So I would have loved to have somebody when I was young ask me that or tell me that parable. But for me, in my experience and in my belief system, my outer world is really a depiction of my inner world. And I find the more fear and angst and anger and stuff I hold within me, the more things don't

work quite right in my outer world. And so what I've learned is the more at peace and the more love and the more worthiness I can feel inside myself, the better my life works. And that just has become more and more obvious the more years I live. And so for me, feeding the wolves, there's so many different ways of feeding. And one is, of course, thought, my thoughts, but it's also what I allow to go on around me, whether I'm watching the news, what movies I'm watching, what TV I'm watching, that kind of thing. And it's also, what am I consuming inside my body? I tend to be very sensitive to what I eat and drink.

And so it's like, there's a, you know, whatever you're consuming has an impact in terms of how you feel that centeredness is what I call it. And that's the wolf that I'd like to feed. Not to say that I'm a purist on it, because I'm not, but it has a huge impact on the external world. A lot of what you do, your book Spiral Impact, is based on your experience with the martial art of Aikido. Right. When did you, tell me about, you've been doing that, it sounds like a long time, tell me

about your journey to, you know, what led you to Aikido and then kind of what brought you to Aikido and then kind of what brought you to today? Well, you know, I had read about Aikido, gosh, like 35 years ago in a book by Ram Dass. And there's a wonderful story by Terry Dobson in his book that really just talked about the philosophy of Aikido. And I've always had been intrigued with martial arts but was a little bit too intimidated to actually go pursue that. But Aikido always seemed interesting to me. And then actually, I was at a dental conference about 23, 24 years ago, and I attended a session with a man by the name of Tom Crum, who wrote this book called The Magic of Conflict.

And Tom was an Aikidoist. And it was one of those thingsist. And it, you know, it was one of those things that, I don't know if you've experienced this in your life, but it was one of those things as I sat and watched Tom's demonstration, it had a huge impact on my life. And I was like, one of those things, I just had clarity around how my interactions weren't working for me. And I actually had clarity around how I wanted to actually study this and really make this part of my life work. And so it was a huge impact for me. And for those of your listeners that aren't familiar with Aikido, Aikido is actually, it is a martial art, but it's really not about force. It's about position.

And it makes a wonderful metaphor for communication. And what I really love about it is that it's really, for me, the study of me in relationship. Because, you know, I can sit and I can meditate and I can breathe by myself, but it's when I engage with other people is when I'm really tested. And earlier in my life, I always felt like I kind of gave my power away a lot. And what I've learned with Aikido, and again, it gets back to that good wolf, is to, you know, have the confidence to be able to enter into relationship and not beat someone up and not give myself away. So for me, it's a really powerful practice. Does that make sense? It does. And that middle ground between those two things, which is giving up your power

and being aggressive or dominant, finding that middle ground can be so challenging and yet so powerful when you can do it. Yes. And I tell you, I've practiced at this point for 23 years and I have been blessed with some amazing teachers. And what I find fascinating, it was at year 20 where, you know, after 20 years of consistent practice, you would think, you know, it's just you go along. But I had another kind of like cathartic awareness in terms of the depth of that whole thing. And so it's interesting as you have a practice where, you know, you don't expect another quantum leap in it. But that actually happened for me as well, in terms of, and it's kind of hard to articulate, but just the whole level of, of how much more relaxed I can be and still have more power in those relationships. So it's, it's, it's a fabulous

thing. One of the lines that you used often is keep moving and bend your knees. Can you sort of relate that to us, not only in the, and I know I said it wrong to begin with, what's the correct way to say it? Aikido? Aikido. Aikido. So relate it to us in an Aikido perspective, as well as how you apply that to life. Well, so in Aikido, for one, when you bend your knees, you're more flexible. And if you can play around with that if you're standing right now, and if your knees are slightly bent, you're able to move more quickly and your center of gravity is lower. And so that allows you to be more flexible and able to move more and keep moving. I think a lot of times in the martial art practice, we can get stuck in one spot

and you can move just a tiny bit and it shifts the dynamic of the relationship. dynamic of the relationship. And that's true in, you know, because what I've done is I've taken my practice in the martial art, and I've really put it in a format that I call spiral impact, that I teach to people for everyday life to apply these concepts. And so in everyday life, again, it's learning that flexibility and recognizing if you're stuck, just move, just ask a question, just get clear on intention. I think a lot of times we get married to an idea that's got to be a certain way or a position that we're holding, and we get locked in and we don't have, we don't have movement that happens. So does that make sense? It does. I mean, what a phrase that I, I use a lot

in talking about depression or low mood with people is that, you know, depression hates a moving target, you know, just, just get moving. You have a line that says movement gives us energy and creativity, struggle and fear makes us feel stuck. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I can remember early on in my martial arts practice, and actually, my earlier career, I was an automotive engineer. And I was a pioneer in that for a woman. I was one of the very first women engineers at the Yato company that I worked for in Anderson, Indiana. And, you know, I think that when we don't know what we're doing and we're not sure what to do and, you know, we can just freeze. And it's like, well, what do you do from here?

And again, on the mat, it doesn't take a lot of movement to get moving. It just takes a little bit. And it can just be bending your knees that will create movement. But in life, too, it really gets back to recognizing, you know, it's that finding that peace with inside yourself. And then, you know, start asking questions. And that to me is, you know, start asking questions. And that to me is, you know, it's getting movement, the fact that we don't have to have all the answers and asking really good questions is a way to get movement. And I know for me, and I listen to your show a

lot, and I do think with depression, with any kind of mood stuff, for me, large physical movement is always helpful. So even if you're in a work situation and you feel stuck or you feel frustrated with something that's going on, you know, getting out and going for a walk somewhere is really helpful. And I think that exercise, and it doesn't have to be running or regular exercise, but for me, gardening is a very therapeutic thing to do. I remember years back, I was going through some major changes in my life. And that's when I ordered, I don't remember how many tons of rocks and barrels and barrels of dirt. And I created this garden in my backyard.

And it was very therapeutic for me because I just was doing all this physical stuff. And it really helped me move through the stuckness of my emotions with that. So, and yeah, breathing. Breathing is a really powerful thing. And, you know, breathing. Breathing is a really powerful thing. And part of my practice, we do something called Misogi breathing, which is, it's not complicated. It's just very conscious breathing that has a bit of movement to it. So it's not, you know, I know before I started doing this, I would try breathing practices and I would be, you know, you'd forget that you're trying to breathe. breathing practices and I would be, you know, you'd forget that you're trying to breathe,

but the movement really kind of connects you with the breathing practice and reminds you, yeah, I'm in this rhythm and I'm breathing and I'm moving at the same time. So, yeah, movement is really powerful, very powerful. And that's when I do training and when I speak. You know, I get people up and I engage them in a lot of different ways in terms of movement. And I, you know, a lot of times I, you know, I'll just, and actually while you're sitting there, Eric, and for your listeners, you might just take both of your fists and push them together so that they're locked. And, you know, and that's something this that we're stuck here, you know, if we've got two fists going head to head, and this is what I call is conflict. And we're stuck. And, you know, conflict is actually a really great thing. And it's where it's where all innovation begins. But it also can be very destructive. And so it really only requires one person to shift and actually say one person open a palm

and that's where the spiral comes in and it shifts everything. And so I find a lot of times we get locked in with people or locked into situations. And when we can recognize first that we're locked, and I think that's really the key thing is to really recognize when you've got that conflict, when you've got that tension, where do you hold it in your body? What do you feel? How do you recognize that? Because if you're not conscious that you've got that going on, there's not a lot to do with it. And so, when I work with people, I have them identify, you know, how do you know

when you've got that stuckness? You know, is it a feeling in your body somewhere in your neck or your stomach? Or is it a general feeling of overwhelm or frustration? Or, you know, how do you experience that? And once you recognize where that stuckness is, there's some really simple things that you can do to get movement with that. And again, I think of it as a spiral. And most Aikido movement is all based upon spirals. So it's rather going head to head. And I use the analogy with general audiences that, you know, it's a difference between using a hammer and a nail and a screw and a screwdriver. You know, one thing I'm beating it up and I've got to have it really, it's very intense. I've got to be really on target. And the other way, I have this connection and it's very stable and it's easy to move. There's a huge difference in my long-term result the rest of the interview. You talk about conflict and you were talking about how easy it is in conflict for two people to get stuck. You also, at points, talk about how important, you know, creative tension or

destructive tension. You know, in the workplace, I always find that to be an interesting dynamic is there's got to be that middle ground. If it's too much, if there's too much disagreement, it's done in the wrong way. It's very harmful. But if everybody's just saying the same thing, to your point, there's no innovation. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really Know Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. And so one of the lines you have that I really like is you say that a difference becomes a conflict when you choose to push against the difference. Right and that's absolutely true and since I've written my book I've actually expanded on that a little bit more and I think of destructive conflict the difference between destructive and and innovative or creative conflict is really they both have that push, but one pushes too long or too hard for the people involved with the intention of really to be right, destroy, or do harm. And whereas innovative conflict pushes just right for the people involved. And the intention is to engage for positive outcome. And the tricky thing in organizations

is that people a lot of times will make assumptions around what people are thinking or what they can stand. And so I think it's really important to really get to know your coworkers or if you're in management to really know the people that work for you because some people can take a whole lot of push and they're fine with it. They don't even notice it. And other people, they pale at the slight raise of a tone of voice. And so, and is that bad or is that good?

You know, it just is what it is. And I think when you can recognize what you're working with and then support people to feel more comfortable speaking up, it's a powerful thing. It's a powerful thing. I remember a long time ago, one of my early clients, there was a very, it was mostly men, and it was a computer company a long time ago. And there were just a couple women involved. And these guys were, they were like, we create through conflict all the time. We rumble around, da, da, da, da, da.

And it was so interesting because I said, that is great. Yet, you got to watch, is everybody participating? And this one woman raised her hand and she said, yeah, and when you guys do that, I will never participate, just so you know. And so it's kind of interesting. It's just, I find working with groups of people just fascinating. It's just really, really fascinating how all those dynamics come together. Right. And I like that idea of destructive tension is when the desire is to be right. That seems to be when a lot of conversation goes wrong, as soon as it moves from making a point to the desire to be right. The other thing that I think is interesting about that is how that dynamic can shift in the middle of a conversation. So everybody can start from a place of good intent, but once they start to feel threatened, it's very

easy to slide back into that defensive and start pushing back. And that's why, you know, facilitating in those type situations can be so helpful. Oh, absolutely. And it's interesting, as I work with companies that really want to be innovative, it's that idea of, I think, destructive conflict tends to focus on a position or some kind of issue. And I say when you can look at the source of the issue and the vision, again, you get movement happening. And, you know, I was just recently talking with somebody where they were, you know, people get caught in a solution. And then some of the conflict can be over what they think the solution is.

And they lose sight of what they're really trying to do in the long run. And they get caught at the level of one possibility of a solution where there exists lots of opportunity. So keeping the eye on what is it that we're trying to accomplish here is really an important thing when you're wanting to innovate and create. And even in, you know, even in one-on-one relationships, I mean, if you're married or in an intimate relationship of any kind, and even with your children, it's, we can get locked into these little things. And I think it's really important to remember what's the bigger picture, you know, what's the bigger picture? You know, what's the bigger picture?

You know, I want to have a great relationship. So, I'm getting, you know, if I'm getting all wound up about this little issue over where to go to dinner or whatever it is, I'm really taking away from what it is I really want in that relationship. Same thing with children. I mean, I can get all caught up into, I remember one of my daughters, she hated to wear coats. And she always wanted to wear these big t-shirts with tights before it was popular. And, you know, on one hand, it could be, you know, it could be like, you know, I don't really want you going to school like that. And you need to have a coat. And then I finally discovered, you know, if don't really want you going to school like that, and you need to have a coat. And then I finally discovered, you know, if she's not cold, what's my problem? And so I ended up picking the battle.

What's really important, I want her to feel good about her choices. Now what's funny is she looks back on pictures back then, and she says, why would you let me go out like that? Yeah. Chris tends to run around in big sweats sweatshirts and tights too. A lot. It's kind of embarrassing for me, but like you said, you got a lot of do what they're going to do. Got to let them do what they're going to do.

And you know, it's like, I, I won't, you know, recognizing I wanted her to feel free to express herself. So, and she's doing just fine in life now. Right, right. So let's talk about the spiral impact. You talk about the power of a spiral. You gave a couple examples, you know, a screw versus a nail. And, you know, in Aikido, a lot of it is you move in the direction that your opponent's going, so you're sort of spiraling around. So with the spiral impact, you have, I think that, let me see if I can explain it simply. And then you tell me if I've got it

right. So there are four quadrants. And when you look at accomplishing something or look at solving a problem or making a decision, the idea is to move through each of those quadrants and take a look through each of those quadrants about how you could approach the situation. The other thing you say is if you feel stuck with something, then to do the quadrant shift. And those four quadrants are focused energy, support, intention, and knowledge. Did I give a reasonable basic summary? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And when you think about it, whether you're wanting to make a decision, resolve a conflict, get going on a project, get off stuck, those are the four things. I was working with people for about 15 years in conflict resolution, and actually that model came to me when I was practicing Aikido. It was just like I was thinking, what do people want?

And then I thought, you know, people just want to do what they love and do it with some semblance of ease and grace. I think that's what everyone wants to do. And then I don't know, that model, I mean, it wasn't exactly like it ended up, but it was in pretty much that format. And see, It wasn't exactly like it ended up, but it was in pretty much that format. And see, that for me is, you know, some of my best work and best thinking happens when I am doing something physical. And Aikido is certainly that way. And, you know, to elaborate a little bit more on those four quadrants because, you know, the knowledge is, you know, I need to have knowledge about myself and my team members. I need to have knowledge about whatever it is that I'm involved in. And I kind of simplify that down.

You know, one of the key things is recognizing that you've got a conflict or you've got tension or you've got a challenge. And then one of the things you do is, you know, turn your statements into questions, acknowledgements, or both. And that's something, when you think about it, whenever you're stuck or whenever you have a conflict, you usually make a lot of statements about it. They will never change. Here he goes again. I'm not very good at this. I've got this problem. I'm scared to do that. So we make a lot of statements

that really reinforce that stuckness. And we tend to make statements when we feel stuck. And so I encourage people to take those statements and turn them into questions. And when you start asking questions, you increase your level of knowledge about whatever it is. So whether it's about understanding a person's position, whether it's about some widget that you're making and somebody's experience of it, whether it's a customer service thing. But when I can ask a question,

so rather than saying they'll never change, I'll say, I'm curious to see what we can do with this. How will this impact us differently than maybe something else? But it creates an openness. You know, if I'm not very good at this, then it's like, well, who do I know that is good at this? And what can I learn from them? that is good at this, and what can I learn from them? But I think that whenever you've got a conflict or you feel stuck,

I can say almost universally, you're usually making some kind of statement about it. And that seems so obvious, but it's so obvious that it's like we miss that. And so asking questions or acknowledging. And acknowledging is just like, wow, this must be difficult or I can see this must be frustrating or whatever that acknowledgement is

is a way of creating that connection. And again, with the model of the spiral, it's moving off of face-to-face and it's moving so I face to face and it's moving. So I'm looking in the same direction as the person I've got the issue with. So now I'm seeing the world as they see it. And it's just really magical what will happen with that. So the knowledge is an important section.

The other one that you talk about is intention. And I think I understand intention in a basic sense. What do I intend to do? But you talk about there being three levels picture intention. So that's something that's like if I'm making a widget, I want to make the best widget in the world. It's my big picture. This is my thing. Now, my big picture intention is I'd like to make spiral impact a household word that people use when they're struggling. I need to spiral this. So it's a big picture. The other level, another level is the immediate. This is the, this is my to-do list. This is what I got to do right now. And, and so it's, it's those activities. And then the other level

is what I call the deeper personal level. And, and that is who it is that I choose to be in the world as I'm doing this. And so it's a values or purpose-based intention. And what I encourage people to do is to think through all three levels because you want to have those lined up so that they all are congruent with each other. Because if my big picture is having this fabulous work team and my deeper personal is really about trust and honor, but in the immediate, I'm yelling and screaming at people, I'm missing my mark.

And so having those three things lined up is, I find, extremely important. And so if I've got my big picture, which is, again, maybe it's a high-performing work team or a great marriage or whatever it is, and I'm really clear on my deeper personal, And I'm really clear on my deeper personal, which my deeper personal that I carry to everything I do is a question. And it's, am I honoring myself and others always? That's my thing. And so I weigh my action, which is the immediate, based upon those things. And so it helps me, it guides my behavior is what it does to make sure that I'm on target for what I want to do. Tell me about focused energy. I think all of us want focused energy.

I think all of us want focused energy. So in the spiral impact methodology, what is that referencing? There's three topics that I address in that. And the one that I think is that I spend a lot of time on when I'm working with groups is the idea of being centered. And it kind of gets back to that good wolf and bad wolf is, am I centered? Am I calm? You know, a lot of people now are talking about emotional intelligence and mindfulness. And centered is kind of the word in my lineage that we use, which is, am I calm?

Am I present? And getting back to the spiral analogy, you know, the tornado and the hurricane have a very calm eye in the middle. And the more defined and more developed that eye is, the more power the storm has. And I really believe that to be true for people as well. The more calmness, the more defined their calmness is, the more power they have in a positive way. And so, that's one piece of it is to really bring that sense of presence and centeredness to what we're doing. The other parts of that, and I think I probably mentioned before, is what are you bringing in? Because I think about food, I think about breathing, and that type of thing is what am I feeding my body with?

And does it make me feel better? And I find a lot of, I kind of look at what often happens in organizations. And again, I keep going back to organizations because that's primarily where I do my work. But I'm always amazed how an organization that's concerned about their employees' health and their productivity, and they serve donuts for a breakfast meeting and pizza at lunch. And for me, those two food items are recipes for spaciness and tiredness. And so do when we eat, do we eat things that make us feel better and more energetic and clearer minded? Or are we feeding ourselves in a way that really takes our energy, our focus away from it.

Same thing with breathing. I work with people a lot on proper breathing. And I really think breathing, good breathing is the best medicine. And I said to a client today, I think if we could get the entire country to just breathe really well for 10 minutes every morning, it could change the world. It could be the health benefits and the emotional benefits of really good breathing, I think, are just really, really powerful. And then the other part of that focused energy is really getting rest and getting good sleep.

But not only good sleep, but I often think that when we have a conflict or we're challenged, sometimes we might have, depending on our makeup, we want to rush to a decision or a conclusion. And sometimes we just need to let it rest. And I find a lot of times people will have a meeting and they'll think everybody's agreed on something. And then later they, you know, they get back together or they hear people talking and realize that. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer.

Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer.

And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening?

Really No Really. Yeah, Really No Really. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really, No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Someone isn't in agreement. And I don't think it's like malicious. I think it's what happens is people let things percolate, let them rest, and then people have some clarity that's different than when they were all together as a group. And so I think letting big decisions, letting conflict rest is a really good thing. So those are all the focused energy pieces.

And I think probably everybody that's listening, I shouldn't make conclusions, but most people I know have experienced where they've read an email that they've received from somebody and it might really upset them for some reason. And they've hold off, but the next day they read it and it doesn't even say what you thought it said. You let it go for a little bit and you come back and look at it again and it's like, oh wow, I didn't even say what I thought it said. And so letting things rest, I think, is a really wise thing to do frequently. I agree. It can be enormously helpful to get a little bit of perspective, particularly if we're emotionally triggered. Yeah, yeah, because there's just something that happens that blinds us there. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, I think that, you know, even making big decisions, I think I kind of go with the philosophy of, you know, if it's a big decision,

it doesn't have to be made right this minute. And if it has to be made right this minute, then the answer is no, because I think having the space and the time to really make sure it's a good one is important rather than, you know, it's so much easier to, it's so much, I should say, it's so much harder to get out of something than it is to get into something. That is an incredibly true statement. So we're nearing the end of our time. I want to talk just about the last part of the spiral, which is

support. Yeah. Well, yeah. You know, I think that's something, and I worry at times. I don't worry. That's not quite right. But, you know, we all need support. And that support really comes in a lot of different ways. And I think a major support are other people. And I notice, you know, I work out of a home office by myself. And I really have to make sure that I connect with people because that's really an important part of support. And I see the work world, people working more independently. And I really believe people do need to find ways of being around other people for support. But support can also be other things like journaling, I think is a really powerful

thing. Reading, you know, your podcast, I find very supportive. I listen to podcasts all the time. And finding ones where I feel like I can get some inspiration and some stimulation of thought is so important to me because I think nothing fabulous was ever created by a lone person all by themselves. And that's something I think about when you think about great innovators now. Steve Jobs certainly comes to mind. And I love some of the new literature that's coming out about him, particularly later in his life, where he wasn't this lone, mean wolf going barking orders at everybody. He really was more collaborative in the second time he was at Apple. And you've got to have all those, you know, the tricky part of life is to really be innovative and really bring things to life requires a lot of diverse talents and personalities and skills.

And that diversity also creates a lot of conflict. So anyway, but having the support of all those people is what brings things forth. I got off subject there a little bit, didn't I? No, not really. I mean, I think that support is, you know, that is such a, I think I've realized it over the years. I have a tendency to want to be more of a lone wolf, but I've realized over time that it really is with other people that the good things happen in life. Yeah, I think there can be some really brilliant strokes of insights by yourself, but I really think it's then bouncing those off of other people that really make things really amazingly wonderful. So I think it's all of that. Even Einstein didn't do things all by himself.

He had support groups. And I think, you know, there's an old quote. Crazy hair anonymous. Yeah. I think that, you know, there's an old quote that I don't know who, I can't attribute it to anybody, but it's like something that's held inside becomes bigger, whereas something shared diminishes in terms of what we hold. And again, getting back to the one you feed, it's sometimes we need to let those wolves out and share that with somebody else so that we don't let that build inside of us. Yep. Yeah.

Well, Karen, thanks so much for taking the time. It's been a pleasure talking with you, and I found the book really interesting, that approach of spiraling around and really moving in the direction of your opponent, particularly when it comes to conflict, was really, really helpful to me. Great. I am so glad. And I am delighted to be a guest on your show. I appreciate the opportunity. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Take care. Okay. Bye. Bye-bye. Many of our regular listeners may know that Eric also does some personal coaching for people who would like a little more of a one-on-one experience with the one you feed. We thought rather than Eric explaining what he does again on this episode, we would play you one of the testimonials from one

of his clients. What's great about him with the podcast and with his coaching is I feel like you can be dropped in with no experience, no mindfulness, no meditative experience, no even real vocabulary. So he's perfect for the kind of everyday person that just wants to explore this stuff and he makes it so that it's not so woo-woo, you know what I mean? Like he just keeps it real. you can learn more about karen valencic and this podcast at one you feed.net slash karen