The One You Feed - Lewis Howes on the Masks of Masculinity and Healing His Childhood Wounds

Episode Date: October 25, 2017

Lewis Howes is a lot of things. He's been an athlete, a podcast host, an author. He's worn a lot of masks, you could say. In fact, that's exactly what he says in his new book and in this episode. He talks about how wearing these masks has not served him well in his life. In this interview, you'll hear him talk about the various types of masks men wear to protect themselves from being vulnerable, from showing their true selves. While it might "work" on the outside, it destroys them on the inside and we see the manifestations of it in our society today.Before Lewis Howes became a media sensation for empowering people and sharing 'Greatness' across the globe, he had his share of obstacles to overcome. From having a learning disability, which led to being alone and bullied in school, to being sexually abused as a child, to being injured and broke on his sister’s couch, Lewis’s story is the perfect example of how anybody can overcome the obstacles in their life and achieve greatness. Fast forward a few short years, and Lewis is a New York Times Bestselling author of the hit book, The School of Greatness and author of his latest book, The Mask of Masculinity. He is a lifestyle entrepreneur, high performance business coach and keynote speaker. A former professional football player and two-sport All-American, he is a current USA Men’s National Handball Team athlete. He hosts a top 100 podcast in the world, The School of Greatness, which has over 40 million downloads since it launched in 2013. He was recognized by The White House and President Obama as one of the top 100 entrepreneurs in the country under 30. Lewis has been featured on Ellen, The New York Times, People, Forbes, Inc, Fast Company, ESPN, Sports Illustrated, Men’s Health, The Today Show and other major media outlets. In This Interview, Lewis Howes and I Discuss...The Wolf ParableHis book, The Masks of Masculinity: How Men Can Embrace Vulnerability, Create Strong Relationships and Live Their Fullest LivesHow the masks he used to wear created success on the outside but destroyed him on the insideHow male violence comes from men who are hurting on the insideThe know-it-all maskThe invincible maskThe joker maskThe material maskThe sexual maskThe athlete maskThe aggressive maskHow important it is to live in service and lift others upThat the comparison game can crush usHow the real you is underneath all of the masks you wearHow he works on maintaining his real self on the outsideThat when he lets the mask take over, he's showing weakness because it has power over himHow he really wants to show up in the worldHow women talk about struggles very often with their female friends but men do notHow unhealed pain causes pain somewhere elseSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If I'm reactive or holding on to pain from the past, then I'm not able to stay present to my vision because I'm holding on to something else. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like, garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true. And yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living.

This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to really no really.com and register to win $500 a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition sign Jason bobblehead

the really no really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Lewis Howes, who we interviewed way back on episode 31 of The One You Feed a long, long time ago. Lewis grew up as an athlete, and he was a two-sport All-American, played almost every sport in high school, and then went on to play football professionally. He then transferred his competitive nature from sports to business, building his podcast, The School of Greatness, into a global phenomenon. His new book is The Mask of Masculinity, How Men Can Embrace Vulnerability, Create Strong Relationships, and Live Their Fullest Lives. And here's the interview with Lewis Howes. Hi, Lewis. Welcome to the show.

Thanks so much. I appreciate it, Eric. Happy to have you on a second time. Unfortunately, we are doing this remote this time, the first time we were lucky enough to be sitting in your studio in Los Angeles, but now I'm in Columbus and you're still in LA, and we are here to talk about your new book called The Masks of Masculinity, and we will jump into that in just a minute, but let's start like we always do with the parable. There's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson. He says, in life, we have two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf,

which represents things like kindness and bravery and love. And the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second. He looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you. It means that we have, for me, that I have a decision to make every moment. And I could step into a decision of wearing a mask to protect

myself, to project a certain identity that I want people to see myself being, or I can take off the mask and reveal myself for the true essence and love that I was born in. And every moment I get to decide which mask I want to wear or if I want to fully reveal myself. Yeah, that's great. Let's talk about the book, The Masks of Masculinity, which is a great title. I just like saying it. I was kind of surprised it hadn't been used before, but talk to me about the genesis of this book because I think it's important. It stemmed from deep pain and suffering and me feeding the bad wolf for my entire life. I fed the bad wolf in terms of needing to look good, needing to win at all costs,

needing to be right at all costs, and needing to accomplish things to fill up my self-worth. My self-worth was based around accomplishments, making money, winning, being right, being smart, being funny. And I realized that I had a deep sense of darkness and sadness and loneliness within myself. The more and more I fed these masks and fused them to my face, the more I achieved at the highest levels. So it was so confusing because I was like, wearing these masks work. I'm getting results. I'm getting the girl. I'm making money.

I'm achieving things in business and sports. It's working on the outside. But on the inside, the inner wolf, as you will, was suffering. It was constantly lonely, sad, angry, resentful, unforgiving of so many things. And I was reactive as opposed to graceful in my life. I was reacting to certain things. And I was so triggered. I gave my power away so often to the bad wolf as opposed to embracing the good wolf inside of me. And four years ago, I started opening up about being sexually abused as a kid, and I didn't tell anyone for 25 years. I opened up about the sadness I felt from feeling insecure my entire childhood.

My brother went to prison for four and a half years. My parents were always fighting. They were divorced when I was younger, and I was always in the special needs classes. So I always felt like I was insignificant. And in order to find significance, I needed to be a great athlete. That's what I attached myself to. I needed to achieve things so people would like me and accept me. So I did things to fit in. And again, all these things worked. I got friends. I got the girl. I made money. friends. I got the girl. I made money. But I was still suffering and I had anxiety and stress inside and I didn't know why. I couldn't figure it out. When I started to release and share these things, when I started to share, I started to heal. And I was so afraid to let people see me for who I am or the things I've been through that I didn't want to tell them because I was so ashamed

and embarrassed and guilty. But when I started to share them, the most beautiful thing happened. Other men and women said, wow, I've been judging you this whole time and now I trust you. Now I see you. I'll follow you anywhere. When I talked about being sexually abused, men were like, you're my hero. You give me the courage to open up. You know, men would say that they hadn't told their wives, and they'd been married for 25 years, about what had happened to them because they felt like they had to have it always together. So the freedom that I got from just sharing, expressing, healing, letting go of stuff that had power over me was profound. And I realized, wow, this is that kind of inner peace that I've always been looking for. That sense of like the weight of the world isn't on my shoulders anymore.

Needing to be able to look good all the time and feel like I have to be perfect all the time. It started to just go away. And the more I shared, the more I healed. The more I talked about it, the less my lip quivered or I was heart palpitations because I wasn't worried anymore what people thought about certain things. And I realized, hmm, this is probably the most impactful thing I've ever done in my life. And the stories I was hearing from other men as I started opening up about things in my podcast, I was like, wow, this is

way bigger than online marketing or business or whatever, podcasting or any of these other topics. I was like, this is actually what's healing me and healing other men. And it blows my mind that Charlottesville is happening with the racial tension, with the political tension that's happening, the conflict, with the wars, the bombings, the Vegas shootings, with all the suicides that men commit, all these acts of anger, fighting, aggressiveness, I would say 95%, if I looked at them all recently, come from men who are hurting inside. Men who feel like they need to protect and defend their masculinity or their manhood

or needing to be right or needing to win. And it's all a false sense of masculinity that we've been taught as men or boys growing up, whether it be through peers in school, coaches, through society, through movies, whatever it may be, it's this false sense of masculinity through relationships. And I realized it's not working for our world and humanity anymore to live this way. And I wanted to go down the process of how I can continue to heal and make sense of all my entire life and realize that I'm a human being and I still wear masks and I'm still triggered and still feed the bad wolves sometimes.

And I wanted to continue to dive in deeper of the psychology and the research behind why boys become men a certain way and how we can start to remove these masks that have been holding us back and causing so much conflict in the world and see if i could be a catalyst in some way because there's not many big white athlete jock looking men who are talking about being raped and who are talking about sexual abuse and insecurities and fears and you know that they have challenges that they've going through you know there's not many of the people that look like me who are willing to lay it out there i wasn't willing to do it until i finally did and so i want to hopefully be somewhat of a

catalyst to just get a few men to open up and see what they can do in their life when they do. It's a great story. And it's so true that as men, there are certain boxes we're put into. We had a guest on the show, Rosalyn Wiseman, who talks about the box that men are in. You know, you've got to behave a certain way. And I love in the book, you make this point, I want to make it too, before we get too far down the road here, right? Which is that we are talking about the challenges that men face in this case, because you are a man and I am a man. It's not to say that the challenges of men are greater than women, you know, because a lot of people could be like, look, you're a white male, like you've got the whole world. And there is truth to that privilege. And there is truth also at the same time, to the fact that we do have an idea of this is a certain way we have to be. And it's interesting to me, because as somebody who didn't have the athletic, let's say, you know, I was outclassed athletically

by about ninth grade, right? Like, you know, it was fine till then. And then, and as somebody who's like that, you know, I have sort of, I would say in a lot of ways, I have been more open than the average man to acting differently than the masks that you talk about. And yet still, I look at these masks that you talk about, and I go, yep, right there. There it is. You know, pick your one. I'm, you know, we may each use a different one at a different time, but it's still there. It's still, and I think that to go a level deeper, it's probably, if you wanted to go, if you wanted to go a level deeper than that, that's the human condition, which is to, I don't feel worthy in some way, so here is what I'm going to present to you so that I can feel worthy. And if you then think I'm worthy, then maybe I'm worthy.

So this is a human condition, but we're talking about it specifically in the male sense right now, because again, that's what you are. And that's the perspective you come from with the book. Exactly. Is there a mask that you represent with the most that you feel like, oh, yeah, I could see that's something I maybe wear more frequently than others or I have in the past? I think it's probably the know-it-all mask or perhaps the invincible mask. One of those two, you know, with my drug addiction and my heroin use, there was this like, you know, I'll do anything kind of thing. Nothing can stop me.

Yeah, yep. And then the know-it-all mask, you know, I just, I know everything. That's so much of, and it's been amazing to me as this podcast has gone on and I've realized more and more that like my growth depends on me unknowing things. How can I set that aside? How can I set knowing aside and actually be in certain cases? And boy, that's a challenge. Yeah. And it's hard to grow if you already know everything. It sure is.

It's hard to grow and feel like you're growing and improving in life if you're like, I've already got it all figured out. And that person is hard to relate to and connect to. Yeah. If you already feel like you're inferior than someone else, you don't want to be around that person if they're going to make you seem stupid all the time. Like, oh, you don't know this? Oh, well, let me tell you because I've got these degrees. Yeah. So.

Yeah, it's funny because I have no degrees. I never went to college but but i think i think that there is you know if i but they're all there you know i've had the joker mask um you know there's the sexual mask right had that one the material mask you know i think there's sort of an overriding mask which is uh like i've got it all together mask right whichever of these various things are more important at the time. But you know what? I've got it under control.

It's kind of the mask that might overlay or underlay all of those. Yeah. And that's, you know, it's kind of like the stoic mask, the man that doesn't show emotion, that's like always strong, that's always the rock, that's always got everything under control. And he's unable to express himself because he, somewhere along the line, someone said, no, you got to toughen up. You can't cry.

You know, stop crying. Or in a relationship, maybe they were in to express themselves, something they're afraid of. And the woman and their partner said, I need you to be strong for me right now. We're going through this mess. I need you strong for me. And he's thinking, well, you just be strong for me right now. We're going through this mess. I need you strong for me. And he's thinking, well, you just told me you wanted me to open up. And now you're telling me you need me to be strong.

I just want you to be happy. So I'm never going to express myself again. And I'm always going to be put together, right? It's just like this conditioning. Not to make men victims to these things. But it's like, we want to please people. And we're human beings as well. Yep. And it's funny, the one with that, it's interesting for me because I've never had a problem really admitting that I have emotions or that I cry, but it's one thing to say, I have

these things. I felt sad. I cried. It's a different thing to actually do it with someone else around. To actually show it. That's right. It's easy to acknowledge it for me. Like, yeah, but the showing it is the much harder part. And it's funny. I so badly didn't want to raise my son that way. And yet, I think to some extent, it's so deeply baked in.

How old is your son? He just went off to college. He's 19. Wow. Wow. And do you see him wearing any of these masks? He used to wear the athlete mask. I don't see it very much in him, but there's a parent-child relationship.

So there may be things of his that I don't see. He probably has the, I've got it under control thing. You know, he's got that, like, he doesn't want to trouble anybody with what's going on with him. He's got the, I've got it under control thing, you know? He's got that, like, he doesn't want to trouble anybody with what's going on with him. He's got it. It's okay, you know? Yeah, yeah. I remember when I was 18, I had to know it all. I thought I knew everything, and yet I knew nothing, you know? So, it's interesting to me because you said four years ago you started sharing about what had happened to you sexually, and you started to peek through or peel these masks off a little bit. And yet you described a time that wasn't that long ago,

after your book came out, you were on a book tour where you were still suffering. So this is definitely a, it's not my favorite word, but a journey, right? Yeah. I mean, I started down the process of like healing from and sharing about the sexual abuse, but yet I still needed to accomplish to feel worthy. I still needed to hit these marks and accomplish, and I felt like I needed to. I was single at the time, and I felt like, what's the point of all this if I'm doing things to feel like I'm a real man, like I'm a worthy man? By just dating more girls or making more money or hitting like lists and all these things. And I was just like, I'm doing these things to like prove people wrong still. Maybe I was healing with the sexual abuse

and I was starting to let go and surrender, but I was still doing things to like prove people wrong and to fit in and make myself look better. And I realized, hmm, okay, I'm still not embodying the ultimate man, which is to live of service and to lift others up. I still wanted to look good and win, as opposed to create a win-win in all experiences. And I realized my mission in life was just a little bit off. Like, yes, I was a fun person, loving, giving. Yes, I wanted to like make meaningful stuff, but I was so attached to the results of what I wanted to create that, and it happened. And I was like, huh, well, I thought I was going to feel something

now. You know, I thought I was going to like feel fulfilled when I achieved these things. But it just made me reflect that like, wow, this is what it is to like make these things so that I impress people, that I look good, or that I prove these kids wrong that made me feel stupid when I was younger or whatever. And so then I decided, you know what? Okay, I'm going to shift my vision to doing things to lift other people up, to being an inspiration, to creating meaningful work that is a catalyst for people for good, or something that's in service, as opposed to, and yes, would I like to hit the New York Times list and hit these marks and accomplish these things? Yes, but it's like, I have so much more ease whether or not it happens, because I'm so focused on the vision, and it's like I have so much more ease whether or not it happens. Yeah. Because I'm so focused on the vision.

Yeah. And it's like it doesn't affect me anymore. Maybe some people will say, well, like you've already done it, Lewis, and you're already making money. So, of course, you're not as stressed. But I don't know. I'm just like my identity is not wrapped around it as much anymore. Yeah. And I'm so excited to just have the conversation and make the impact.

And I just believe that it's going to work out one way or another. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really Know Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal?

The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us.

How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really.

Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason Bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app,

on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I always think it's interesting because we're a bag of mixed motives to a certain point. I bet there was a big part of you that was doing what you were doing because you cared about people and you wanted to lift them up and you wanted to help them, right? That's always a part of it,

and yet there's that other part, and it's always kind of keeping the eye on, at least for me, I have to go back to like what is what is the underlying desire you know when i look at the numbers of my podcast and i read well lewis has 35 million downloads my god you know right like it's 45 now okay oh thank you we're not comparing anything i appreciate that so i i go back to kind of what what i doing. But I told you before the conversation, I went on this one week silent retreat, and I had some pretty profound moments in there. And to be motivated, not by the ego related things, not, and all of a sudden I was like, well, wait a minute, like, I don't want to do that anymore. Right. Right.

I'm doing that. It's part of this thing that I do. And I'm no longer interested in it because 80% of it was about how it made me look. And 20% of it was because I thought it added value and it was good. And so it's just this ongoing process of evaluating and being honest with ourselves, which is so hard. It is so hard, especially with Instagram and social media. And, you know, the comparison game can crush us. You know, you might look up my numbers, but I'm like, oh, look at Tim Ferriss.

He's got 200 million downloads. And I'm like, gosh, I'm like nothing compared to these results. Or Joe Rogan gets 20 million downloads a month. It's like in two months, he gets more than I've had him in five years. Right. Yep. No, I get it. I can constantly compare. But I think we just get to be clear in our vision and the journey where we're at if we want to have at least some peace of mind. In other words, we're constantly going to compare and constantly trying to one-up others to fit in and to be accepted with these material masks that we're wearing. And it's definitely not easy. It's a journey. And I think the reason you do this podcast is so you can continue to learn and grow.

Yes. The reason I wrote this book was for me to like realize, wow, I have probably the biggest mass of them all. And if I'm not talking about this every single day and meditating on this and being mindful of this and having people around me who are like quality people that give me feedback whenever my ego flares up, then I'm probably going to go back to that place of still being a good person and caring, but needing to be right and needing to win at all costs and needing to be the best no matter what.

And when that doesn't happen, when I lose, it's like I'm the worst loser in the world because my identity is at stake. And when I'm wrong, it's like I'm the worst person in the world to be around because my identity was needing to be right. And when we strip ourselves of these egotistical desires to fit in and we allow ourselves to be who we truly are, we start attracting people who receive us for the giving heart we have, for the compassion we have, for the service we have in the world.

And that's way more meaningful. So I think that gets to what I wanted to ask next is when you take the masks off, right? What is it that's there? You know, do you have a sense of underneath the mask? What, what is there? Yeah, it's, it's, it's the real you. It's the person that you've always wanted to be, but you've never been able to because you've been trying to fit in. You've been trying to fit in in school, in the locker room, in the choir, in the musical, whatever it is. You've been trying to fit in with your peers to be accepted for the way that you think

you need to be. And when we remove that and we become who we truly are, it's scary because we've never done it. Or maybe we did it when we were kids and you look back to the time when you were a kid and you had the most fun, you were the most joyful, the most expressive, and then we start to lose that sense of our childlike self the older we get to fit in. And so we gain that sense of childlike energy again, which is the most youthful, fun, fun to be around, expressive self. And that's what's powerful.

You mentioned being mindful of and being around people. What are the things that you're doing in your life to try and make this process continue for you? make this process continue for you? I work on having those very uncomfortable conversations and relationships that I don't want to have because they suck and they're hard and they hurt and they're scary. So I work on cultivating that and not having devices around when I'm having them so I can fully be present. I work on meditating every single day when I can. I'm not perfect, but I try to every day. And for 15 minutes, I go to a place in my mind, connect to my heart, and think about anything that could upset me throughout the day. In my relationships, business, something online happens, I think about, like, okay, if any of these things happen, how do I want to respond and show up in the world? Do I want to show up reacting like most of the people in the world?

Or do I want to show up with this graceful sense of humanity that responds with love and thoughtfulness towards my vision? Because every time I react to something in a negative way, I'm saying to that thing or person or experience that it has power over me. I'm saying to that thing or person or experience that it has power over me. I'm actually saying I'm a weak human being because I don't have the ability to gracefully process this and stay committed to my vision. I'm giving that person power over me. I'm getting angry at that person. I'm holding resent that person. I'm frustrated with the person who cut me off in the car.

I'm not the ultimate human being that I could be. And so I think about, and during meditation, that process. person who cut me off in the car. I'm not the ultimate human being that I could be. And so I think about, and during meditation, that process. Who do I want to be in the world? What example do I want to set? How do I want to be of service? And if I'm reactive or holding on to pain from the past, then I'm not able to stay present to my vision because I'm holding on to something else. So which of the masks do you find is hardest for you right now? Obviously it changes, but right now today to let go of? I would say the aggressive mask is a big one that has been hard in the past because I would be easily triggered. Again, I'm very loving and affectionate and kind and giving, but whenever I felt attacked,

and it goes back to feeling attacked as a kid all the time, whenever I felt attacked in any way, online, in person, in a game, it's like I had to defend my manhood. I had to defend myself and attack back with aggressiveness, like assert my power over my attackers or whatever. And it's something that I continue to learn how to let go of, you know, that I'm just, my ego is so attacked that it's like, I feel like I have to defend my ego. But when I breathe in those situations where I want to react, I realize like, okay, this isn't even about me. This is about like something else that happened.

It's about them that are upset or they're judging or whatever it is. And why does it matter that I need to get so defensive and angry or aggressive in this moment? It's just been because I've conditioned to do it my whole life and I didn't know anything else. But now that I have the awareness around it, I breathe in those moments a lot better. It's still not easy. There's times where I still get frustrated and things like that but I just breathe and I ask myself, and this is perfect because I had this situation at the airport actually last week where I missed my flight. I left my wallet at home. It was the first time I ever done this.

I left my ID so I had to rush through. I left my wallet at home. It was the first time I ever done this. I left my ID. So I had to like rush through. I had to go through like a whole check process of like calling TSA. And they had to like strip me down pretty much naked. And like the whole process where normally I get there, you know, 30 minutes before I've got TSA pre-check. I have first class. It's like I'm in and out. Like I know I'm going to be fine. But since I wasn't there early enough, like I should be, this process took just a little too long.

And the TSA was like, you're going to be fine. This is just going to take a few minutes. The gate's right there. I'm like, it's boarding. The doors are closing now. We got to go. Like do whatever you need. I'll get naked right now.

Like strip everything. Let's go. And she was like, you're going to be fine. Trust me, you're going to make it. I was just like, I just feel like I'm not gonna make it and i always make my flight and um sure enough i'm sprinting to the gate and the gate had just closed and and they're like once it's closed it's closed and i'm like are you serious the plane is right there i'm here here's what happened trying to explain myself like getting defensive and they're like there's nothing we can do there's not a flight until tomorrow and i'm like i wanted to punch the wall

kick a trash can scream at this customer support person so i just had to sit there i literally did not say anything for about 10 minutes i just like was fuming and i was like okay i'm like in my mind i'm pissed off because i'm looking at the plane literally sitting on the runway that hasn't taken off or hasn't, the gate is still there. And I'm thinking to myself, isn't this fitting that I'm writing a book about masculine vulnerability and I'm going on a trip to go speak about this right now. And I have a perfect example for me to see how I'm going to show up in this moment. And so I literally just sat there frustrated, but I didn't say anything. I didn't punch anything. So I was like so proud of myself that I was like, okay, I might be a little fuming right now, but at least I'm not saying something I'm going to regret or hurting someone in the process or acting like a fool around all these

people or making a scene because I'm upset. Oh no, boo hoo. And instead I just said, okay, I'm going to breathe and I'm going to be calm and I'm going to walk out of this airport calmly. I'm not going to scream at anyone. I'm just going to walk out of here and calmly go outside and figure out the next solution because there's nothing I can do in this moment. And if I scream and get angry, then I'm saying I'm a weak man because I'm giving this moment power over me that I don't have the power to gracefully experience life and to gracefully figure out a solution and diffuse the challenge. And I think the ultimate alpha man is not the one who can like get angry and defensive and beat up anyone and the strength to like defend himself at any moment

it's like the ultimate like alpha gorilla the silverback is really like the one who doesn't have to beat his chest constantly but the one who's just kind of like kind of chill and like kind of is aware of the whole surroundings in his jungle and when there's like two apes fighting, he just walks up and has an energy about him where they just are like, oh, we don't need to do this. Or he just gracefully puts a hand and moves them to the side. He doesn't need to scream all the time and yell at people

and beat people up. He's just like, we don't need to do this. Let's separate this energy from our space. Let's come back to our vision of a family unit. And it's just like, it's beautiful to watch like this massive gorilla with silverback that doesn't need to scream or loud or fight. He's just so confident with his, his self and he's able to gracefully diffuse any situation. And I realized like, that's who I want to be.

The man who can diffuse any situation with my social skills, with my energy, with my presence, with my thoughtfulness, with my compassion. And that's the way that I want to live my life. Thank you. It's interesting to hear you say that. Does it feel like you're putting another expectation on yourself to be a certain way? I think that's just the vision I want to live with. I want to be able to be a graceful, loving man. Not an aggressive, assertive, fearful, angry man. Because those moments don't support my vision. And they usually leave me feeling frustrated for hours, if not days, and holding on to resentment and this residual pain.

And this residual pain. And if I give my power away to those moments that make me feel like stressed out in my heart for the next three days, how does that support me living a purposeful life and my vision? It takes me away from impacting. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like. Why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal?

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Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really.

Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason Bobblehead. It's called Really? No, Really? And you can find it on the iHeartRadio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. People from building my business, from having healthy relationships, from working on my health. It makes this like, it creates disease in my heart, not peace because I'm in pain and palpitating all the time. That's not good for my body and my health. And it affects every other

area of my life. So am I ever going to be that peaceful 24-7? Probably not. But I think that's the vision every single day when I meditate and when those moments come up, to breathe. And to ask myself a question, I have a decision to make. Am I going to feed the good wolf or the bad wolf in this moment? Because I can feed either one. Either one is going to give me some type of result. But which one is going to have the biggest price that I have to pay afterwards. And that's what I think the ultimate man and human being gets to do is be conscious of their environment, conscious of and aware

of their decisions and understand that they have prices and consequences for wearing these masks. Yeah. That would be the perfect place to wrap this episode up because you brought it all back together, but we're not going to wrap it up just quite yet because I just want to spend a minute and have you walk through what each of the masks are just for the listeners. So they have a brief sense of kind of what they are and then we'll wrap up after that. Sure. I'll read them, the mask. The first one's the stoic mask. Because every man must be invulnerable and tough. Emotions are carefully managed and suppressed. There can be no crying, no pain, no feeling. That's the first part of the stoic mask. The athlete mask. One of the clearest

ways a man can distinguish himself is on the field or on the court. He is like a modern day gladiator whose weapon isn't death, but domination. Sports are how men prove themselves. And a good athlete is a good man. That's the first part of that. I'm going to pause you on that one because there was another interesting part of that, which you talked about how a lot of men go from that when their athletic career is over to being completely obsessed with sports because it's a variation on that absolutely yeah it's like if you can't play them anymore then you need to be obsessed to like show that you're masculine you know a lot about them you know a lot about them you're you're smarter than the next guy. Exactly.

You're the best at playing fantasy sports. You know all the stats. You're the know-it-all, and you're the athlete without actually competing. Right. There's the material mask. There is no clearer sign of a man's worth than the amount of money in his bank account. Not only do men work incredibly hard and sometimes do questionable things to make as much money as possible, it's all for naught if other people don't know how much money he has. So that's a little bit of the material mask. The sexual mask,

a man is defined by his sexual conquests, his worth determined not only by his bank account, but by the number of women he's slept with. Relationships, those are for lesser men, for quitters and settlers. So that's a little bit about the sexual mask. The aggressive mask. Men are aggressive. It's their nature, right? It's all men's nature to be aggressive. They're violent and tough and they never back down. When they see something they want, they take it. Men hate. Men have enemies. Of course, they have a temper. Of course, they break things.

And of course, they get into fights. They're the hunters, not the gatherers. It's what men do. And a man who thinks otherwise is not a man. And is responsible for the weakening of the world. The Joker mask. A man has a sense of humor and wit that can repel even the most withering critique or the most nagging doubt. Talk about his problems? Okay, Dr. Phil, maybe later. Cynicism and sarcasm

and a sense of superiority. These are the intellectual weapons that a man uses to defend against every attempt to soften him or connect with him. So if you want to let a man in, expect a knock-knock joke, not an open door. The invincible mask. A man does not feel fear. A man takes risks, whether that's betting his life savings on a company or cliff diving or smoking and drinking

in incredible quantities. A man doesn't have time to think about consequences. He's too busy doing. That's a little bit about the invincible mask. There's two more, the know-it-all mask. A man is not only physically dominant but intellectually dominant too. If you don't understand why that is, a man is happy to explain it to you, along with all the other subjects he's an expert in. The alpha mask is the last mask. At the most basic level, men believe that

there are only two types of men, alphas and betas, which are winners and losers. No one can stand to be the latter, so a man must dominate, one-up, and win everything. A man can never defer. As a man, he must be in control, and he can't ever do anything a beta or a woman would do. So these are the masks that we've done a lot of the research on with the psychologists who do all the work with boys and men. And it's not easy taking any of these off because they protect us, they make us feel comfortable and safe, and they allow us to fit in to our society and that's why

it's really challenging to take it off especially if you've been wearing some of these masks your whole life because they get you results it works to do these things but when it works in the external world but we're suffering in the internal world it's time to rethink about what some of these are and how they're hurting us yep you could argue that it's not working in the internal world, it's time to rethink about what some of these are and how they're hurting us. Yeah. You could argue that it's not working in the external world very well. Well, look at Las Vegas. Look at the political conflict. Look at Charlottesville. Look at all these bombings around the world. Domestic abuse stats, rape stats. I mean, all of it. It's stemming, 95% of it, I would bet to say is stemming from men who are hurt,

men who are suffering. All these things that we just talked about, it's men who are leading the charge with Charlottesville, with the torches and saying, we're scared, we're hurt men inside, and we're afraid to reveal ourselves. So let's attack. All this stuff in Las Vegas, it's probably the stoic man who's never expressed himself and who's always felt misunderstood. And now it's time to get some of my energy out. And this is the way I know to do it. The guys who commit suicide, stoic mask.

They've been trying to be tight, hold it all together, strong for their family, their friends, their businesses. But they've never been able to fully express themselves. So they can't express themselves. It's a prison inside. So it's time to end it. Boom, I'm dead. This is how we've been conditioned to live our lives as men. There's not hotlines to express yourself. As men, it's not acceptable generally to share like with women where they'll meet every other day and talk about their fears and insecurities together. They'll talk about the things they're going through in their relationships, the problems in their marriages, their stresses with their children. They'll talk about their insecurities with their weight, whatever it may be. They're not afraid to open up with their girlfriends.

Whereas guys, 50% of men say they don't have a good guy friend they can just talk things through with. And so no wonder men are struggling inside. There's no one to talk to about it. There's no one to express it, to open up about. And when you're in that place, you start to suffer inside. And as I'm sure you are aware men do things like addiction men Watch porn masturbate constantly men drink smoke to cope with their feelings inside And I just think we need more opportunities to share when we start to share we can start to heal And that's the first great step excellent Yeah, I think it's

I think I forgot what I was going to say You're revealing yourself. You're not the know-it-all. It's perfect. Yes, clearly think it's, I think I forgot what I was going to say. You're revealing yourself. You're not the know-it-all. It's perfect. Yes, clearly. Chris, edit this out. I think I read in your book, and I've heard this before, like the suicide rate for men is like six times that of women. It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. And again, why, why is that? Is it because men are just conditioned to kill themselves more? I don't think so. I think when men don't have the emotional capacity to express themselves and they have the weight of the world on their shoulder and they feel like there's no way out, there's nowhere out. So this is the only thing I can do. Yeah. That's the

conditioning we've had as men. Yep. And I think it's so important. I'll go the only thing I can do. That's the conditioning we've had as men. Yep. And I think it's so important. I'll go back to what I said at the beginning that you say in the book multiple times, which is this is not a poor men thing. This is not a victim card thing. But if you work under the premise that unhealed pain causes pain somewhere else. You know, it always flows out. And as we've talked about, you look around. This isn't just good for men. This is good for everybody if men learn to take these masks off. Humanity. Again, where is a lot of the pain and suffering coming through in the world, in our environment, in politics, in relationships. A lot of the pain is coming from hurt men that are causing anger, aggression, fighting, killing, wars, racial

tension. A lot of it is from scared, angry men who have yet to heal. And I'm not saying all of it, but I'm saying most of it. Yeah. There's most of it yep there's a lot of it there well Lewis thanks so much for coming on again um thanks for writing the book as a man I appreciate it it's certainly good you know it's it's great conversation that we should all be having so thank you appreciate it man thank you all right bye If what you just heard was helpful to you, please consider making a donation to the One You Feed podcast. Head over to oneyoufeed.net slash support.