The One You Feed - Paul Dolan on Designing Your Life for Happiness

Episode Date: February 28, 2018

Please Support The Show with a DonationPaul Dolan is a Professor of Behavioral Science at the London School of Economics and Political Science. He's an expert on human behavior and happiness. Paul is also the author of the best selling book, Happiness By Design: Change What You Do Not What You Think. We all want happiness in our lives yet happiness is something that so often eludes most people. It seems like a feeling that happens to us rather than a feeling that we can cultivate with intention. In this interview, Paul teaches some really practical, research-based, action-oriented approaches to life that we can take today to increase our feelings of happiness. The first step? Listen to this informative and interesting interview. Omax3 Ultrapure go to www.tryomax.com/wolf and try a box for freeIn This Interview, Paul Dolan and I Discuss...The Wolf ParableHis book, Happiness By Design: Change What You Do Not What You ThinkThe power of designing your environmentFind a balance of purpose and pleasure and you have a happy lifeHow a large part of how you feel is connected to what you doThe role of attention in happinessWhat we think would make us happy vs what does make us happyThat we're not very good at predicting what will make us happyThe AREA modelHow we must make sense of what's happened in order to adapt to itKey to happiness is also to pay more attention to what makes you happy and less attention to what doesn't make you happyWhy somethings that are so obvious are so often overlookedIf you can't change what you do, change what you pay attention to in the experienceIf you want to do something, make it easy for yourself to do itLess about willpower and more about design powerHabit loopsQueuing your environment, commitment and normDeciding, Designing and DoingIf you want to do something, make it easy. If you don't want to do something make it hardPlease Support The Show with a Donation See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you want to do something, make it easy. If you don't want to do something, make it hard. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like, garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking.

Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like... Why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor? What's in the museum of failure?

And does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really No Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Paul Dolan, professor of behavioral science at the London School of Economics and Political Science. He's an expert on human behavior and happiness. Paul is also the author of the best-selling book, Happiness by Design. Stress happens to everyone. It's one of those facts of life. I'm sure you can think of a time recently when you were very stressed.

life. I'm sure you can think of a time recently when you were very stressed. We're working on helping people to better manage their stress. If you're signed up for our email list already, you know that we recently sent something to you about stress in your life. And we're going to be continuing on this topic. And we've got a new resource that's coming out soon called Eliminating Stress, Two Smart Strategies to Keep You Calm and Confident. If you're already on our email list, no need to do anything. The document will come your way this week. If you are not on our email list, go to oneufeed.net and sign up in the right-hand column, and you will get the next document about managing stress.

And the main focus will be dealing with our thoughts and responsibilities. So if you're not on our email list, oneufeed.net to get signed up for these free resources. And here's the interview with Paul Dolan. Hi, Paul. Welcome to the show. Hello, Eric. It's nice to be on your show. I'm excited to have you on. Your book is called Happiness by Design, Change What You Do, Not How You Think, which is a big part of the way i view the world so this should be an interesting conversation excellent let's start like we always do with the parable there's a grandfather who's talking with

his grandson he says in life there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle one is a good wolf which represents things like kindness and bravery and love and the other is a bad wolf which represents things like kindness and bravery and love. And the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second and he looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do well why don't you start with an easy one so it's so it's interesting so for me um behavioral science teaches us that um so much of what we do is driven by context and environment and situation

and a lot less by cognition or you know by by thinking and by the person that we think we are so so for me i start i start thinking about that parable in terms of it's not really two selves there's just context that activate those different selves right so so we can design environments organize our life and our day and our society in ways that make it easier for us to be kind or we can do it in ways that make it easier for us to be kind, or we can do it in ways that make it easier for us to be greedy. So it would be more about which of those selves are activated in which environments and less about the selves themselves. I love that answer. It's a great answer. And it ties in very much to a lot of the themes in your book. Let's start kind of at the beginning, because you make

a distinction early on that, you know, there's traditionally been two views of the good life, right? One that we would consider perhaps more hedonic, right? A life of pleasure, contentment, positive feelings. And another, I think the phrase is more eudaimonic, right? Which is a life that is more well-lived and meaningful. And your point is really we need a balance of both. That is absolutely right, although it's a little subtler than that. So in terms of how we measure happiness, he's always done the former, that hedonic pleasure and pain by asking people questions about their pleasure and pain

in the moments, in the experiences of their lives. Yet the eudaimonic is nearly always asked as whether your life has meaning whether your life has purpose whether when you reflect upon the narrative of yourself you feel like it's been worthwhile and so what i argue is that actually there's no reason uh in principle and in practice why we shouldn't be placing purpose on the same experiential footing as we place pleasure yep um happy life is one that contains um a balance between those twin sets of feelings and the balance i think this is really important that's right for the individual i try not to be

too prescriptive in the book i think a lot of uh a lot of happiness books you know generally try to tell people that there's a you know one size fits all way to live. And I just want people to work out for themselves what that balance is. Exactly. So you say that a large part of how you feel is determined by what you do. Can you elaborate on that? Yeah. So actually, I mean, there's the production process of happiness. So I'm trained as an economist, although I've kind of morphed more into a psychologist over the last decade or so. And so I can't help but kind of, some point revert back to my econ training. And if you're if you're a company producing widgets, right, you don't just obviously have widgets.

They have to be produced by some process. And that production process is a process that converts the inputs, land, labor, capital into widgets. And so you make more widgets when you when you have more two things one you have more inputs or you have a more efficient production process so analogously in happiness i talk about happiness being people have always just really spoken about the inputs income relationships unemployment sex all these things as if they are directly related to the to the output of happiness but there's a production process in the middle um that converts those inputs into happiness sex all these things as if they are directly related to the to the output of happiness but there's a production process in the middle um that converts those inputs into happiness and that production process is attention so whether and how and in what ways to what extent money um marriage

employment and sex show up in your happiness depends on how much attention you pay them right so if you take income for example you know it's true that money would make people very very happy if they spent all their time thinking about how much money they had when they got rich but they stopped paying attention to money and pay attention to all the other things in life that that largely have nothing to do with how rich they are so so it in in the sense of happiness being in what you do it's in what you pay attention to and and a lot of our time not not all of it of course and we can talk about more about that if you wish but a lot of our time is is is paying attention to you know the conversation that i'm

having with you now or paying attention to you know your commute to and from work or the time you spend with your family and friends or the, you know, the listening to music or, you know, all the things that draw your attention or resources towards them in ways that convert the inputs into happiness and in a lot of cases, misery. And so another way of saying this, I think would be to say, it's not just what's happening to us, right? It's the attention we pay to them and the perspective we take to those things that are happening. And you talk an awful lot about attention. And furthermore, you talk a lot about how we spend a lot of time thinking about what we think would make us happy. We think it's more money. We think it's this thing or that thing. And we pay precious little time to what actually does make us happy, and that we would be better served to pay

attention to what actually causes our happiness in life, and then pay more attention to those type of things, instead of diverting our attention to things that we believe may someday, somewhere provide happiness. That's absolutely right, Eric. So if you think about, I mean, so the things that you pay attention to in a decision will often not be the things that matter in the experience of one of those choices. So if I'm thinking about, you know, choosing between two jobs, right? The most obvious dimension on which I will compare them is salary. It's actually the most, it's actually not only the most obvious thing for me, it's most obvious thing for other people,

right? They expect me to compare the jobs on the basis of salary right they expect me to take the high paying job and actually if i've done i've got a real you know kind of painful process of explaining to them why you know i think i might have better colleagues or a shorter commute in the in the lower paying job so i'm kind of almost almost compelled in in some way to take the job that pays more money because i pay attention to that attribute in the decision and i think i'm going to pay attention to that attribute in the experience right so the job with a longer commute that pays more money I'm going to think that's okay that longer commute is going to be compensated for by the fact that I'm richer but actually once you take the job and you experience your life day-to-day moment to moment that commute becomes very very painful very

attention seeking and the fact that you could have had another job that would have paid a little bit less with a shorter commute is kind of that that income difference becomes irrelevant right so in the experience of your life you kind of you you pay attention often to different things that matter to you when you make a decision and moreover we're not very good at predicting the things that will draw attention to themselves in those experiences. And so that's one of the fundamental reasons why we make quite a few mistakes and errors in our decisions that lead us to not be as happy as we might otherwise be. Right, because we've got two things happening here. One is that, as you said, we're not very

good at predicting what will make us happy and we have to talk about the adaptation process in order to fully understand that do you want to explain that then yeah so when something new happens something novel surprising and interesting uh you know like like a pay rise or a new date or a new house or a new car, or, you know, it, it, it pays or actually bad things as well. Right. So some adverse health effects, for example, they,

we, we pay attention to them because they're novel and attention seeking. Um, but something that initially starts off novel and attention seeking soon becomes many things, not all things, many things become kind of old and established. Right.

So, so when you're, we can take an adverse event when you experience an extreme health loss, maybe you become a paraplegic. Now, that is very attention seeking, obviously, when it first happens. It's still it's still attention seeking for the rest of your life, but it's not as attention seeking after a month, a year and 10 years as it was after the first week. You essentially become a part-time paraplegic right so where your attention is only drawn to your paraplegia when your attention is drawn to it when you're trying to gap a curb or when you know there's a

kind of environment that that makes you draw attention to it the rest of the time kind of get on with life and and live it by and large in very similar ways to people without paraplegia and we're not very good at forecasting that, right? We imagine that, oh, it will just be awful, awful for now and forever. We equally imagine that winning the lottery will be pleasurable for now and forever. Yep, yep. But the now doesn't last forever. The now quickly dissipates because we stop paying attention to many of the good things and bad things that life throws at us.

And that's actually highly adaptive for us as human beings to get used to stuff, you know, because otherwise we might be living in quite considerable turmoil if we didn't. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer.

We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's gonna drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight

about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, No Really, sir. God bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really. Yeah, really.

No really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason Bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And here's the rest of the interview with Paul Dolan. The positive side of it, right, is the psychological immune system, right?

That we get used to things. And you put a model in there that I had never really heard of before. I'm certainly familiar with adaptation. But you talked about a model of adaptation called the AREA model, which stands for, you know, attention, you know, something grabs your attention, you react to it, you explain the event. And once you can explain, who's at University of Virginia. So that's their model. But obviously, for me, what's key about that is the A bit is the attention that something draws itself. And as you rightly say, once we can make sense of why something has happened, we can kind of get used to it. So a very good example is when uh we split up with a partner especially if we get dumped right if we got dumped that is that is pretty horrible there's no there's no

doubt that those first few hours days and sometimes weeks are pretty awful but very rarely months and years right unless you you know unless you have unless there's other you know unless there's some kind of other uh maybe mental health you know issues going on most people get over people and moreover find someone better next right yeah so so you don't get very many people who say uh my current girlfriend or wife or husband isn't as good as the one i had before right um because it doesn't actually doesn't actually matter whether they are or not our psychological immune system tells us that they're better because it's our way of making sense and coping with the world. difficult and why once we have certainty, you know, that's the, we can explain the event in that model, then we can adapt to it. But while it's all kind of up in the air, it retains its novelty because we can't answer the question. Exactly. Exactly. It's almost, you know, that,

um, you know, it is actually, um, often better to have tried something and it, and it gone wrong than not to have tried it at all because they're not trying it at all. Can sort of nag on you, sort of nag in your mind about what might've happened had you done it. And so that unresolved uncertainty is very attention seeking, whereas the resolution makes it easier to cope with. And that's why we see in the, in most happiness literature, that separation when you break up is very attention seeking and misery making.

You only start getting happier again when you get divorced because it's final. It's over, and I can move on. Yep, I can attest to that. You say the key to being happier is to pay more attention to what makes you happy and less attention to what does not. That's pretty straightforward. i know i know that's why i was laughing when you said it it was like uh what are we having some sort of statement of the bleeding obvious you know it's uh it's uh but what i you know what what's funny is actually i

think a lot of it's maybe not funny but i think a lot of the insights that i uh drawn in the book are actually really obvious what the really interesting question is why they're so overlooked right right it's not it's not actually that then you know if people say to me when i say to them what things you know they should do to be happier i say you know listen to more music go outdoors spend time with more people you like being with help other people and they say well that's obvious i said well why why how much of it are you actually doing then right if it's so bloody obvious why aren't you doing more of it and and so the the answer to that question which is more interesting one is that we make it we often make it very hard for

ourselves to do things that would make us happy and pay attention to those things we make it easy for us to do things that we pay attention to that don't make us feel so good right right and to take that you know the next direction is this you know we're talking about changing what you do and at the same time you say if you can't change what you do, then change what you pay attention to in the experience. So that one could use a little bit more unpacking than the last statement for sure. So the UK and the US subtitle of the book are both Happiness by Design. The UK subtitle and what was going to be the US subtitle is Finding Pleasure and Purpose in Everyday Life. And just as we were about to go to print, my US editor said, you know what? Those Americans, well, she didn't say that because she was in the US. Us Americans.

She said, you know, we need something more directive. We need to be told what to do. We can't figure it out ourselves. Yeah. That's why I do this podcast. There you have it. Exactly. Exactly. So the US subtitle became Change What You Do, Not How You Think, right? So that was quite an interesting insight, I think, into the cultural differences. But it isn't exactly that. If I take a step back to answer your your question is that if you read any of the self-help genre they will nearly they will nearly always without exception say you know change how you think right change you know in positive whatever well kind of yeah i'd work that out

that's why i bought a self-help book i want i want you to give me some insights how to do that and of course you can't and and that's why the self-help industry is so lucrative, because the likelihood of buying a self-help book is much greater if you bought one in the last 12 months. So clearly, they're not working. They're working at selling books, but they're not working at changing people's lives. And it's because they don't give you, it comes back to the previous question, the really simple insight is if you want to do something, make it easier. Comes back to the previous question, the really simple insight is if you want to do something, make it easier.

They don't give you the tools that enable you to design your environment, to organize your day and your life in ways that make doing the things that would make you happier easier. That's actually the fundamental challenge. So most of the time we can actually change what we do, right? So even incredibly busy people like me, I mean, I think I'm like the busiest person ever. You i've got i've got i've got a busy job i'm a head of a department now at the lse uh you know i do all these great academic things i've got a family but i still manage to go to the gym five times a week without exception and people say to me i don't have time to do that so it's not you don't have time you don't make time so i've organized my diary in a way that five gym sessions a week for 45 minutes to an hour i just always you know i just always do them just always do them um and i've made it easy for myself by having a gym that's nearby by having a

training partner that i go to the gym with not all the time but much of the time and we just have a an automated habitual system that makes it easy for me to do that. Yeah, I've said this on the show several times, but I think for me, the I don't have time to exercise excuse went out the window. And I realized that, you know, then President Obama exercised, you know, nearly every day. And I was like, there is no way on earth I can claim to have be busier or have more important things going on than he does. Right. So like that excuse is gone. You know, it's a matter of prioritization.

I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a floor? We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer.

We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you, and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us today. How are you, too?

Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really.

Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So let's talk about designing our environment, because that's a big piece of what you talk about throughout the book, which is, you know, you're more likely to do something if it's easy to do. So, and I think we all underestimate, I know people that I work with a lot in coaching underestimate this. We all think it's all about willpower and how dedicated we are. And so much

of it has to do with design and with our environment and crafting it in a certain way. So let's talk a little bit more about that. What are some of the things we can do, or what are some of the maybe ways to think about structure in our environment so that we can, A, make the changes we want to make to how we behave, and also for happiness? It's much less about willpower and more about design power. Because, you know, actually, it's hard work, isn't it, exhibiting willpower all the time

force you to do something or stop yourself doing it so so what you want to do is you want to try to create habit loops and so um we we see from some of the health behavior change literature that takes about two months to change the habit right so you need to be doing the same thing repetitively for it to be embedded and coded so often what's interesting is a lot of times when people try to change their behaviors in whatever domain they don't leave it long enough you know before they stop or start again right so um new year's resolutions i mean i don't know how many of those last to the end of february probably probably none very few yeah yeah so you've got to try and so the way that you the way that you make

that habitual process that then makes life easier for you subsequently more likely to to kind of embed itself is by making it more likely of course it's obvious thing to say that those behaviors will be carried out on the you know daily basis or whatever that you intend to do them. And that requires you to have a very clear implementation plan for your intentions. It's called implementation intentions in the academic literature. So it's the way in which you make the bigger plan more manageable and discreet. Right. So it was actually used by barack obama you mentioned you mentioned him earlier um in um in a different context to get the vote out by turning by asking people you don't ask people are you going to vote in the general election right that's a there's a

there's actually a lot of behaviors embedded in voting right you've got to first of all leave you've got to find the polling station you've got to know right so so the questions would be you know when when are you going to vote when in the day how are you going to get there are you going to go with someone are you going to go on your own right so you've got a series of implementable plans that make intentions more likely to happen so with any behavior that you want to change in your daily life you need to have those plans in place and those plans are uh more effective when drawing on the lessons from the behavioral sciences which tell us some things that are really quite obvious like we care about what other people around us are doing right we're social animals and we take our cues from other people you You're more likely to do something if lots of other people around you are doing it.

You're more likely to do something if you make a commitment or a public promise to do it. You're more likely to do something if you have cues in your environment that make it more likely. So if you put even just those three things together, you might, if you want to go to the gym or exercise more, leave your trainers by the bed when you get up, you might have a gym buddy that you pre-commit to meeting at the gym at the same time every day or week in order to train with them.

And you might join a running group or something that makes that behavior more likely. So all of these things make the implementation of that intention more likely to come about. You use four terms in relation to this a little bit. You talk about priming, defaults, commitments, and norms. Let's walk through each of those real quick. Okay, so I actually just very rapidly went through three of them in that example. quick okay so i just i actually just very rapidly went through three of them in that example so so the priming is is is a cue in your environment that makes the behavior more likely so the trainers by the bed um is just an example you kind of fall over them right so you can't sort of right

help but help but see them or you might have um you might have a picture of you in the gym on your screensaver um actually one of the things i did in a different my editor in the uk i've got in the example in the book i say if you want to spend less online shopping whatever change your banking password to don't spend so much money and uh and she actually did that she said some version of it um change the password to don't spend so much money and and she reckoned it worked i mean even just knowing we can actually fool ourselves even though we know we're trying to fool ourselves right so that's how that's how powerful some of these effects can be typing in don't spend so much money just at the margin stops you spending so much money right so that's you in your environment

so um then defaults and commitments are actually quite similar i mean i i i just maybe pay attention in the interest of time to the commitments thing is that you you um you're just much more likely to do something when you make a public promise to do it so if you if you um said on air something that you're going to do over the next and make it a short period and discrete behaviors that you're going to go to the gym every day for the next week or something if you say that publicly on air you know you're just a little bit more likely to do it because you don't want to not do something that you promised to yep yep and then the norms are as i say this is really such a pervasive effect we really do take our cues for action from those

around us i mean you know you you you're walking down the street and everyone's looking up what do you do look up right i mean it's it's it's just you just you just are cued to do what others do so you want to create a network of people who engage in the behavior that you want to lots of lots of very good data from very robust studies over many contexts and years showing that um not just not just our friends affect what we do but our friends friends and our friends friends friends right so you're you're more likely to quit smoking if your friend quit smoking if their friend quit smoking and their friend's friend quit smoking all of those have a direct effect on your likelihood of quitting smoking.

Yep, yep. We're near the end of time here, but you've kind of tied all this up into a framework to look at. You call it deciding, designing, and doing. And I think we've talked through each of those pieces a little bit, but can you um give a quick overview of of how that framework and how to put it into use yeah so i actually talked a lot about design right i mean which is the which is the principles of organizing this is a really i know this is i can't i can't emphasize this enough eric i know it's a really basic insight but if you want to do something make it easy yeah that is really if you don't want to do something make it hard that's that's you know and that that is if you do that if you can do that you're you know a long way towards achieving your

goals um we did the design but the do bit is is really where we started in a way of paying attention to things that make you make you feel good it's remarkable that you know music therapy has been shown to be hugely effective across a whole range of health conditions mental health conditions physical health conditions music literally lights up your entire brain everybody i would say without exception is happy when they listen to music they enjoy so so just do it right design ways of listening to more music into your life um the deciding bit i think is a really maybe one of the more more interesting bits because it's where sometimes we have this idea of the person that we think we'd like to be the number of journalists for example that i've met who say they're going to write a novel right don't they

all say that right well most of them don't so i don't know actually how many of them actually really want to but they say that because they think that's what a journalist should do and so the deciding bit is that really is obviously the first of the three d's but it's actually you know the probably the most critical bit in a way because you need to be absolutely clear that this story that you tell yourself about the person that you want to be instead is actually going to play itself out in you feeling better and happier so i'll just make a plug for the second book which will be coming next year which is called Trap, which is actually going to be about the stories that people live in that often get in the way of them leading happier lives. We tell ourselves that

we should be richer and more successful and married and all these things, when actually, for some people, those things are good, but the chasing of them is often quite harmful for many people. Yeah, exactly. I think that gets to, you mentioned it briefly, and it was that, you know, this idea of the experiencing self, which is the part of us that can experience and enjoy happiness versus the evaluating self, or another word for the evaluating self, right, is kind of the narrative self. It's that. It's the stories we're telling ourselves all the time and and your basic um piece here is pay attention to what actually makes you happy track your time watch what you're doing did that did i enjoy that did i not enjoy that and move away from our beliefs about what will make us

happy into our actual experience of what does you You've actually read the book, Eric. The whole darn thing. The whole thing. You're better at explaining it than I am. All right, Paul. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on. I know we're kind of up against our time frame here. So I appreciate the time and let me know when the next book comes out and we'll talk again.

We will do. Listen, thank you so much. One of the things I talk about in the book is how the scarcest resource that we have is our time. And we're now half an hour closer to death than we were before we started. I think this has been a very pleasurable and purposeful use of that half an hour. So thank you very much. Me too. All right. Take care, Paul. Cheers. Bye. See you very much. Uh, me too. All right. Take care, Paul. Cheers. Bye. See you. Bye. If what you just heard was helpful to you, please consider making a donation to the One You Feed podcast. Head over to oneyoufeed.net slash support. The One You Feed podcast would like to sincerely thank our sponsors for supporting the show.

I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallyknowreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really Know Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.