The One You Feed - Poe Ballantine

Episode Date: October 18, 2017

Poe Ballentine is a great writer. Thank goodness for that because it's through his gift and skill of writing that we get a glimpse into the experiences of his life which reach us at a moving level of beauty, truth, humility, and struggle. In this interview, you'll hear him talk about these things and the gift you'll get as a result is the knowledge and comforting feeling of knowing you are not alone in your struggles through life. You'll learn through hearing what he's learned about self-growth and self-improvement. Give yourself the gift of listening to this episode. You won't be sorry.Please Support The Show with a DonationPoe Ballantine is a fiction and nonfiction writer known for his novels and especially his essays, many of which appear in The Sun. One of Ballantine’s short stories was included in Best American Short Stories 1998 and two of his essays have appeared in the Best American Essays series. His essays and short stories have also appeared in the Coal City Review, Kenyon Review, and Atlantic Monthly. Tom Robbins said " Poe Ballantine is the most soulful, insightful, funny, and altogether luminous “under-known” writer in America"His books include Love and Terror on the Howling Plains of Nowhere, Guidelines for Mountain Lion Safety, 501 Minutes to Christ: Personal Essays and Things I Like About America: Personal EssaysIn This Interview, Poe Ballantine and I Discuss...The Wolf ParableFinding himself or becoming someone elseThe Moral Mechanism of the MoleculeAsking, in your own experience - rather than simply in ideas, what do you know?How he found his way out of despairDoing enough work to exonerate yourselfHow important it is as an artist, creator to be hyper-aware of your life and environmentThe price of individualism in AmericaHow he loves to take care of his wife and sonHow difficult it is to be marriedThat marriage is the molecular foundation of our societyHis book - a true crime story, Love and Terror on the Howling Plains of Nowhere Poe Ballantine LinksHomepagePoe Ballantine writings from The SunPlease Support The Show with a Donation See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

in America. What makes this place great and what makes this place miserable is individualism. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like, garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf.

Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Poe Ballantyne, a fiction and nonfiction writer known for his novels and especially his essays, many of which appear in The Sun. One of Ballantyne's short stories was included in Best American Short Stories 1998, and two of his essays have appeared in the Best American Essays series. His writing has also appeared in the Coal City Review, Kenyon Review, and Atlantic Monthly. Author Tom Robbins said, Poe Ballantyne is the most soulful, insightful, funny, and altogether luminous under-known writer in America. Some other ways that you can support us is if you're interested in the book that we're discussing on today's episode, go to OneYouFeed.net and find the episode that we're talking about. There will be links to all of the author's books, and if you buy them through there, it's the same price to you, but we get a small amount. Also, you can go to OneYouFeed.net slash book, and I have a reading list there. OneYouFeed.net slash shop, and you can buy t-shirts, mugs, and other things.

And finally, oneyoufeed.net slash Facebook, which is where our Facebook group is. And you can interact with other listeners of the show and get support in feeding your good wolf. Thanks again for listening. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you?

We have the answer. Go to reallyknowreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really Know Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And here's the interview with Poe Ballantyne. Hi, Poe. Welcome to the show.

Hello, Eric. Thanks for having me. It's a real honor to have you on. I've been reading your work in a magazine called The Sun real honor to have you on. I've been reading your work in a magazine called The Sun for a long time now. The Sun is a special magazine to me, A, because it's a great magazine, and B, because I first discovered it at a place called Niches, and I think listeners may have heard me bring it up before. I always bring it up because the gentleman who founded it was kind of a mentor to me, and he's gone these days, so I'm always excited to bring up anything that has to do with him, and I first discovered The Sun at that place. It was sort of a faraway retreat place, and so it's always been a magical magazine for me, and your writings have

been a part of that. Good, I'm happy to hear that. So let's start the show like we always do with the parable. There's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love. And the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second. He looks up at his grandfather, and he says, Well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. It's a good one. It's a good metaphor or a set of constructs, if you like,

or to the angel of the devil on the shoulder. I'm constantly warring with that bad wolf and marveling at how well people do by cultivating their pet wolf. That's the part that frustrates me. I think I've got my life in order. I'm bold, and I'm humble, and I'm poor, so I think I've been feeding the right one. But I was marveled at how well people do who feed the bad one, and I wish the world wasn't that way. I suppose there's probably an explanation. I hope that's not a disappointing answer, but I'm in charge of reality and whatever I can grasp. You've written a number of essays, a number of novels, and, you know, most of your life you spent as a wandering writer, I guess would be the best

way to say it. You went from place to place. You worked a lot of jobs as a cook writer, I guess would be the best way to say it. You went from place to place, you worked a lot of jobs as a cook, as different things, and were waiting for your writing to kind of pay off. And then it seems like in the last number of years, you've become a little bit more settled. Is that still the case? Oh, yeah. I've lived here in this small town in settled. Is that still the case? Oh, yeah. I've lived here in this small town in Nebraska for 16 years now, I think. Maybe, I think it's 16 years now, and I'm happy to be settled. And so, one of the things that I wanted to explore for a moment with you was the theme of the wolves comes up about feeding one wolf or the other. But in a lot of your writing, and you actually say it pretty clearly in one line, you say, I was also secretly, as always, praying for metamorphosis.

So can you tell me a little bit about the role that changing yourself has played in your life in the past and today? Yeah, sure, I can try. I was not very satisfied with myself as a human being or as a player, and I lived in the suburbs, and I was not very satisfied with myself as a human being or as a player. And I lived in the suburbs and I was pretty overwhelmed by the world. And I wanted to escape that world and have more, perhaps, control over it. And, of course, I had dreams like everybody of trying to be either or both finding myself or becoming someone else, whatever that happened to be. I was afraid to find myself because I thought it might be as disappointing, you know, as I appeared in the mirror. in the mirror. So better option for me was transformation or metamorphosis, whatever you like, becoming something completely different and, you know, slam bang like your heroes are,

you know. But through that process of that long process, arduous process of moving and working numerous jobs and living on very little money and so forth, I suppose I did become profoundly different than I was in the beginning. Now, metamorphosis can apply to anything. You know, I mean, spiritually, I was after that, too. And I think to some extent, I discussed that in my work, although I don't think very often in a direct way. It's very clear, though, that it's there. And I think a lot of my questions actually aim at some of what I would call, you know, spiritual searching that you were doing. You have something that you called, I think half-jokingly, but the moral mechanism of the

molecule theory. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah, that's to say that everything from the beginning is imbued by the spirit of whatever force created it. And I was having this discussion with a friend of mine a week or so ago. She's a Buddhist minister, whatever those people who preside over Buddhist ceremonies are called. But I address, most of my friends are secular, most of my friends are non-believers. I mean, they're materialists in one sense or another. Science is basically their religion. And so I'm speaking to them, and I think the mass of people are sort of that camp. And so I'm speaking to them, not to try to trick them or anything, but just so that I don't bias them. I listened to your major podcast

that you've got up there. I forgot his name, but he talked about, you know, what would Jesus do, and the Jesus fish is a sort of a symbol, although he talked about, you know, what would Jesus do, and the Jesus fish is sort of a symbol, although he's not using traditional religion or Christianity or anything like that as a guideline. And so, for whatever reason, and perhaps partly because I was in that way of thinking for so many years that I'm talking, I'm trying to talk to people so they'll listen to me and not just immediately see a word that raises a red flag for them. But anyway, back to the moral mechanism of the molecule, all it is is saying that if something is created in a deliberate way, and the world has purpose, and it's interconnected and functional and beautiful and graceful,

and love is the evolutionary product and so on and so forth, that every last particle, those are the things people like to talk about, my friends like to talk about, the atoms and so forth, that every last particle, those are the things people like to talk about, my friends like to talk about, the atoms and so forth, are imbued with this force, just like, you know, every cell has a mitochondria and so forth. Yeah. There's a line where you say you know that spirit and all of its archetypes and guises is all that you will ever possess of worth. Does that line still resonate with you?

You wrote that, it's been a while ago, I think it was in a series of essays that was early in the 2000s. Yeah, 501 Minutes of Christ, I think that's from that. Yep, yep, it is. Yeah, and that's probably my most directly spiritual essay, you know, where I'm talking directly about the influence of spirit. And the reality of spirit, it's easy to say things, one thing or another, recite clichés, but in actuality, in your own experience, what do you know? I mean, what do I, I can only speak for myself, and I know very little,

but there are certain realities that are evident to me that are accessible to me, and those are my anchors. And there are things that I've experienced. There are things that I can see and perceive in one way or another, in one sense or another, that I have found useful to me over the years, where other forms, other systems and methods of advice have failed. and methods of advice have failed. Yeah, I think so much of what spirituality for me has become when it's working well is exactly like you said. There's very much an experiential piece to it.

What is my actual experience and less my ideas about what my experience is? And it's easy for me to fall into being completely stuck in my head with ideas. But the more that I pay attention to my experience, I seem to be getting more out of that route. Right. Yeah. And we have to realize that we're all on different paths or different tiers or however you like to look at it. And the only way to really validate

what's been offered to you is reality. The only way to sort it out is through your own observation. I mean, there are other things, too. There's instinct, and there's all these other things that are very difficult to describe, these processes that I've heard people discuss in very eloquent ways. But at some point, you discount what everybody else is saying. But at some point, you discount what everybody else is saying. I mean, I've rejected orthodoxy for a long time, even though later in my years, I'm finding that my experience is dovetailing with most of what major religion has to say to teach the moral codes and so forth. But I still think it's more valuable for an individual to pursue the path that's set before that individual, however that may be. And few of us have a chance to do that. Most of us are eliminated very early by poverty or by the lack of ability in whatever way.

the lack of ability in whatever way. Yeah, you've got a line in there that I love where you say, whatever I believe must have the depth and power to repel evil, insanity, loneliness, and despair. It must be built on the observation of what is good and true. Yeah, that's your good wolf metaphor, again, very clearly.

Yeah. And it sounds simple, you know, but how long did it take me to come around to that position, and how long was I lost? And not just lost, but viciously and magnificently lost. So that, yeah, so Bad Wolf was howling most every night. Yeah, talk to me about that process. So in your writings, there's a period you can tell very clearly that you are kind of at the end of your rope, I think would be a safe way to say it.

You're in despair. You're older. You're 39 or you're 40. The writing hasn't panned out. You've accomplished nothing in the typical sense of the way the world would look at it. And you were feeling very despairing. How did you find your way from there to where you are now? That's the most interesting period of my life. It's the threshold period or the transformational period or whatever, where I fell apart, really literally fell apart. And it's because I collided with reality, with the probability that I wasn't going to be successful, and the knowledge that success wasn't going to really make that much difference.

I'd seen enough people succeed, however you want to define that. And on a quick aside, we live in America where you're not permitted to pursue a humble and impoverished existence. You know, they might have respect for you in India or something if you had that kind of life. But in America, you know, and you're reminded of this every day if you're cooking, if you have a greasy apron, or if you live in a certain part of town or whatever. So you can say how noble it is to do one thing or another and to have the highest goal of beauty and truth, and all that's wonderful.

But in reality, you're just going to get smashed. You're going to get ridiculed, stigmatized. And so that's something that you have to deal with. I mean, you're going to move from America, or you're going to find a way to deal with that. or you're going to find a way to deal with that. And I wasn't about to just build my own world and go live in a teepee in Oregon or something like that. I was going to try to please my peers and my parents by winning something, by winning the tournament, at least one major tournament.

At the same time, I'm trying to develop spiritually, and it's hard to reconcile those two. It really is. It's impossible to reconcile those two. But at the same time, that's what you're facing in America as a struggling artist. And just, you know, a human being has to have a certain set of, you know, you've got to have a certain kind of toolkit before you're even accepted in society. Otherwise, you're just a loser and you're marginalized. So it's difficult. So I ran into that and I got tossed out the other side and I fell down and boo-hoo-hooed for a long time.

But at the same time, I had probably been writing pretty well, and luck came my way. And I did enough, just enough, I think, to exonerate myself or to justify my existence. And at the same time, I kept my integrity by not writing some garbage bestseller that I knew would probably raise me in the esteem of others. So yeah, so that was that razor's edge,, you know, raise me in the esteem of others. But so, yeah, so that was that razor's edge, as Somerset Maugham would call it. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like

why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer.

And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, Not Really, sir. Bless you all. Newman and you never know when Howie Mandel Might just stop by to talk about judging

Really? That's the opening? Really No Really Go to reallynoreally.com And register to win $500 A guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition Signed Jason Bobblehead It's called Really No Really and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app On Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, everyone, just a couple quick bits of news. First off, we have a new download available on our homepage at one you feed.net. It's the four transformational hacks that make habits stick, even if you've tried before and failed. So go to our homepage at oneufeed.net, enter your email address, and you will get that download for free. Secondly, I wanted to let you know that the coaching program is now open again. I'm going to keep it open kind of in perpetuity right now. We've done big launches where we had a bunch of people join. And so I've just decided right now that it may be to be easier just to kind of keep it open.

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You can go to oneyoufeed.net slash support and make a donation there. For those of you that have done that already, thank you so much. It means a lot to us. Those of you that haven't, now is a great time. Oneyoufeed.net slash support. Thanks. And now back to the episode with Poe Ballantyne. That line of, you know, you've done enough to exonerate yourself, uh, reminds me of a Leonard Cohen line where it, I think it was in an interview I read of his, where he, he's saying something very similar. Like he's just trying to get enough work done that day to, to almost justify the day or, or something. And, and so is that kind of what you

mean? And when you say sort of to exonerate yourself that you did enough good work in your mind, enough good art? Yeah, certainly. Yeah. Look, you go and visit your sister, and she's got friends, and then you go see your parents, and they've got, you know, a couple of neighbors are over, or they're old, you know, my dad's colleague, my dad's teaching colleague, they're just looking at you, and you know, and you're in your late 30s, and you haven't done anything, you know, and it's a cordial conversation, but everybody knows that you're a failure, especially you, you know, and so if you don't accomplish something, then,

I mean, really, you're going to have to move to India, or commit yourself to a monastery, or something like that, And listen, when you're writing or when you're doing any kind of artistic endeavor, your senses are wide open. They have to be. And you're subjecting yourself to all the vulnerability that it takes to be able to understand what's going on in your environment so that you can refine it into something that's useful to another reader or another viewer. And that kind of sensitivity or openness to your environment can't be switched off. You know, you don't just switch it on when you go sit down and compose and then go downstairs and pour a glass of wine and switch it off.

It's always there. It's the same thing with being honest. I mean, the really good comedians, the really good writers, the really good painters, the really good podcast interviewers are honest. And they're honest to a fault. Otherwise, they're not going to be any good. That's just my observation, but I'm sure it's true. And so you can't just switch it off and on and go be insincere for a while when you need to get something done. And then, you know, you could, I suppose, be two different people, but that's just a waste of

energy, and it's certainly not going to redound to your benefit in the long run on any level. I mean, we're talking about a spiritual level, too, which is not independent of a creative effort. Those things are tied together as well. Yeah. Another thing that happened for you somewhere in this window was that you got married and you had a child. And you've got a line that I love because this makes a lot of sense to me. It resonates with my life to a certain extent, which was you're describing marriage and family and you're saying, it has provided a sense of concrete responsibility that combined with my lack of free time has dispelled that old constant chorus of suicidal demons in my head. And I love that line because

to a certain extent in my own life, I think that responsibility has helped make me into a version of myself that is less concerned with my own feelings. I would hope so. I think it's just perfectly natural for human beings to not be alone in America. What makes this place great and what makes this place miserable is individualism. We have to really pay a big price for it, but it makes us a fascinating nation, and it makes us a very creative and technologically dynamic nation, because you've got people that are just going their own way, and they're doing exactly what they want to do, and they come up with fantastic stuff, you know. But eventually, that being on your own, it's just not natural in my mind.

Well, now there are some people who look for it, but I wasn't. And I had resigned any possibility of having children or being married. I was 40. I don't know how old I was 46 or something like that. So it all came as a big surprise to me. And I'd always been willing to participate in something like that. I really did want it, but I had just sort of sacrificed everything at the altar of being a good writer. And maybe I didn't need to do that. You know, maybe that was downright satanic.

But whatever providence was out there, I guess they felt sorry for me and gave me another chance. I know that a lot of people, a lot of creative, very creative people can't make that part of their lives work. And so I know that I'm lucky, but I still think that without that anchor, it's very normal to, you know, to have a family and to want to have a family and to raise children and to be responsible and be part of a community. I guess it's rejected because it sounds so conformist, you know, but it's very normal and helpful and it's life-saving. And I promise you, I wouldn't be alive now if I hadn't, you know, settled down here and entered into this arrangement.

So are you still married today? Oh, yeah. They're out there now trying to be quiet. My son's going off to his piano. That's just here in a few minutes. He might be, you know, he might already be gone. Oh, no, yes, I'm still very happily married. I wouldn't, these two just came down with a very oldness.

My son got mono, and she, by virtue of that, got some sort of ungodly upper respiratory. So I played nursemaid, and it was just very, I enjoyed the hell out of it. Just, you know, every four hours going in and administering medications and, you know, ice packs and blankets. And the nurse outfit, I think, was just a little over the top. But I really enjoyed, I just really enjoyed being responsible for other people's lives. But I really enjoyed, I just really enjoyed being responsible for other people's lives.

And as you say, especially the diminution of your own ego. Yeah. Because even when you hit it big, if you hit it big, or if you could see it, and especially see it in others, you realize it's not that important being a big shot. It's just not, you know, and maybe it is important, but it's not going to bring you any kind of happiness or any kind of contentment or any kind of real purpose. It's just going to see you just keep slugging away at it. Not slugging her, but just slugging away at trying to really make this work for both each of you and your son. And it's just interesting for me to read. A, it was touching, and B, after reading so much of your life and so much of your time being sort of a loner, a drifter, it was such a revelation that that was all inside you. At least it was to me as I was reading it.

I don't know if that makes sense. No, I know what you're saying. I put a lot of time into being a father. I know Tom and I were just having this discussion, and I've just known a lot of kids who have had these major parental failures, and sometimes they're unavoidable, you know, death or divorce or whatever. But that kind of stuff is really traumatic to children, and I've had a lot of friends who have been psychically and permanently damaged. You know, they've just stopped going at certain periods and I don't think they understand it themselves because they're too young to get perspective on it. And so I've just vowed, you know, I vowed that if I ever had a child that I would

put everything I could into it so that I wouldn't cause that child any more pain than the world that we know it has to offer. And there's plenty of that kind of pain waiting. And so when you devote yourself to a child, you also have to devote yourself to the family, the source of the child. And you have to set an example and all that so that you can set this chain of events bound in good faith and makes, eventually, idealistically at least, makes the world a better place and not a more confused and painful place. It hasn't been too long ago that I saw my son off to college. Well.

Which was a pretty great moment. I mean, sad and also, but in so many ways, a great moment. Well, I'm going with my boy. I'm going to go with my son. I don't care if he goes to France. I saw his mother, I know, but I just wouldn't know what to do without him. So, yeah, what college? He's at the University of North Carolina in Asheville. Okay, and you're in Ohio. Yep, yep, Columbus, Ohio.

Yeah, so that is a long way to go. Yeah. Yep. It's a, it's a ways he was looking at Reed in Oregon, Portland. So this is a little bit better than that. So could have been worse. Hop in a car and see him with an eight hour window. So how old is your boy now, Tom? He just turned 15. Okay. Wow. Yeah. You're getting there. I know. And he's talking about school, and I told him, you're probably not going to get an academic scholarship. You need a scholarship. We don't have that much. You're not going to get one academic, you're not going to get one sports,

so it's either music or speech. So he's been concentrating on music, and he's gifted, so maybe get a scholarship. That's good. One of the things in your writing, sort of referencing back to marriage, and I'm so glad that you are still happily married because you wrote about how difficult it is to be married in such wrenching detail. I've been there before in the places that you were in, and I'm just going to read this because I just thought it was a beautiful way to talk about what can happen in a relationship when it's not working. Having no shortage of

disagreements to choose from, we have nevertheless argued so much, the real conflicts have grown too large and distorted to confront or even recognize. So we hiss and snarl at each other over trifles, So we hiss and snarl at each other over trifles, each hoping to land that final, blame-laying, testimonial blow. And when I read that, I was just, it's beautifully written, and it's just heart-wrenching that we find ourselves in those spots, and very true to reality. Very gradually, I've learned that you can talk about anything in detail, and reveal a lot more than you probably want to and strike a chord because 95%, if not more, married people will identify with that. I wasn't afraid to confess some things there. And I also hoped that they would be useful to married couples because marriage is not how it's painted. At least if you're not willing to examine the thing, all your friends and your parents and all the struggles

that they went through and your aunts and uncles. It's a lot of work. It's more work than your job, and I don't care who you are. So I just thought it would be useful by describing those things. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor.

We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by.

Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us tonight. How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging.

Really? That's the opening? Really, No Really. Yeah, no really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason Bobblehead. It's called Really, No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On a lighter note, you say even a marriage in turmoil has its benefits. It wards off, for example, weird women, bad dates, late-night visitors, pointless binges, impetuous trips to Montreal, and questions and insinuations about what kind of gringo fairy am I anyway. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a powerful social institution. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a powerful social institution. And even in America, where marriage is losing ground and losing respect, it seems to be eroding. But I think that most people have tremendous respect for it because it is the sort of molecular foundation, if you want, to society, and it needs to be protected. So, yeah, you got to work, man, and, you know, it's not all this business about love that people keep talking about, you know. Love is a hard work, that's all it is. You know, to listen to you talk, there's a traditional streak, I guess I would say, there, and from your early years of wandering and writing and drinking and, you know, hanging out with the various different misfits of society.

Did you see yourself settling into, to some degree, a more traditional mindset? Oh, yeah. Yeah, my goal early on was to acquaint myself with America in the briefest way, ride a little freight and hitchhike and drive a truck and whatnot, and then, you know, write the great American novel and then retire up in the hills and then not have anything to do with society. I never had any idea I would become ensnared permanently in a permanent loop fashion into the lifestyle that I'd created, which was just marvelous for me because that humility

is really what I needed. I was getting all the lessons that I needed. I just wasn't, my goals weren't being met, because humility was not my goal. You know, I was going to be wise, and I was going to be cool, and I was going to be knowledgeable, and I was going to be aloof. You know, I was going to be John Steinbeck, just at the edge of town, living at, you know, wherever there was a town down there, but I wasn't going to be involved.beck just at the edge of town, living at, you know, wherever there was a town down there, but I wasn't going to be involved. So, yeah, so that was what happened with that. And I never did, if people were, I would be at the sheet metal house, you know, with a

bandaid on my head because I'd had my forehead cut open by some sheet metal or something. And it would be like, what are you doing here? I've come, you know, you look like a teacher. Where are you? Where are you here? You talk, you look like a teacher. Where are you? Where are you here? You talk, you don't talk like us. You're not like us. And I'd go home and read and take notes.

And I guess I didn't, I didn't fit very well. But at the same time, you know, I mean, I grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood, a working class neighborhood. And I fought every week and I drank, you know, through my Polish, uh, heritage. And so, uh, you know, I don't want to try to portray myself as something I'm not, I'm sort of like those two different people, you know, uh, self-taught and, uh, maybe entitled to, to some gifts that the people that I was down there with in the factories and the warehouses and whatever didn't have, you know, didn't have the benefit of.

So you wrote a book called Love and Terror on the Howling Plains of Nowhere, which is both a story of your marriage, of growing up with your son, and of the horrific death and your investigation into it of the local college math professor that was written. It's been a number of years ago, maybe four or five years ago. Is any more known about what happened with him than when you finished the book? I've gathered lots of evidence, and it's all circumstantial, and nothing really has opened this or shown any more light on it, unfortunately.

And I really was confident that we would get some kind of confession or secondary confession or something like that, but nothing like that has happened. It's hard for me to believe that a town this small would be able to keep a secret like that so well kept. Yep. All your writing is wonderful, and I'm not sure if I'd recommend people to start there or on one of the book of essays, but it's a true crime story that is fascinating, and it's also, you know, weaving your life into it, and I really enjoyed it. I'm glad. enjoyed it. I'm glad. Well, Poe, thank you so much for taking the time to come on. I've really enjoyed preparing for the interview. Like I said, I've read you for a long time. I was happy to dig

deeper into your work, and I've enjoyed this conversation a lot. Yeah, yeah. Well, no, thanks. The pleasure's all been mine, Eric, and I hope this works out for you. All right. Thanks so much. All right. Bye-bye. All right. Take care. Bye. If what you just heard was helpful to you, please consider making a donation to the One You Feed podcast. Head over to oneyoufeed.net slash support.