The One You Feed - Special Episode: Crisis Strategies for Mental and Emotional Health

Episode Date: March 24, 2020

You can find all of the most up to date crisis help & support resources that Eric is making available through The One You Feed by going to www.oneyoufeed.net/helpAs the COVID-19 pandemic intensified earlier this week, Eric reached out to several previous guests of the show to ask them if they would be willing to talk with him for two special edition episodes of The One You Feed Podcast. They all generously agreed at a moment’s notice and this episode is the second of those two episodes. These mini-interviews are with 6 leaders in the realms of mental health and spirituality. Eric talks with each of them about how to deal with difficult thoughts and offers practical strategies for emotional health during these challenging times. These are all new conversations with previous guests, Parker Palmer, Mirabai Starr, Lewis Howes, Steven C. Hayes, Scott Stabile, and Sharon Salzberg.In This Special Episode, We discuss Strategies for Emotional Health and…Turning our attention to those who are vulnerable and need our helpThe connection between anxiety and uncertaintyAccepting the truth that there are many things we cannot controlBeing attentive to what we can controlHow reflecting on and learning from suffering can be therapeuticThat dissolution is a good thing: You’ve lost an illusion and you’re that much closer to realityHow to abide in a space of not knowingThe paradox of actively helping the situation by doing less, staying put and slowing downReorienting to what we really need vs. our tendencies towards overconsumptionHow to be mindful and Feed Our Good Wolf during a time of crisisThat constantly seeing crisis media alerts is like seeing a car crash every 2 minutes – we benefit from placing boundaries on how often we consume media coverage Creating meaning amidst sufferingHow psychological flexibility can help us move through difficultyHow to move through a crisis so that you come out of it with post-traumatic growthWays to work with your anger towards others during this crisisWays to work with your fear about this crisisThe helpful pillars of self-care that can really support us in crisisLooking for ourself in others to bring empathy What it means to connect to our hearts and soulsThe importance of giving yourself grace and forgiveness during a crisisHow loving-kindness meditation can help usHow staying home can mimic the effects of a reflective retreatA guided meditation from Sharon SalzbergCalm App The #1 rated app for meditation. They have meditations, sleep stories, soothing music, and Calm masterclasses with may One You Feed Guests. Get 40% off a Calm Premium Subscription (a limited time offer!) by going to www.calm.com/wolf Peloton: Wondering if a Peloton bike is right for you? You can get a free 30 day home trial and find out. If you're looking for a new way to get your cardio in, the Peloton bike is a great solution. Eric decided to buy one after his 30-day free trial. Visit onepeloton.com Laurel Springs: An accredited online private school for students K-12. Personalize the learning program and learning schedule for your unique child with Laurel Springs' diverse and enriched curriculum. Register your child at www.laurelsprings.com/wolf and receive a waived registration fee.Links to Other Episodes:Parker J. PalmerMirabai StarrLewis HowesSteven C. HayesScott StabileSharon SalzbergSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like, garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking.

Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like

why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallyknowreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really No Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to Decisions Decisions, the podcast where boundaries are pushed and conversations get candid. Join your favorite hosts, me, Weezy WTF. And me, Mandy B. me, Weezy WTF, and me, Mandy B, as we dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday and Wednesday, we both invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. Tune in and join the conversation. Listen to Decisions Decisions on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everybody. First up, we have Parker Palmer, who is the founder and senior partner of the

Center for Courage and Renewal. He's the author of many books, and as an interesting point, he has more honorary doctorates in addition to his PhD than books he has written. Hi, Parker. Thanks so much for finding a couple minutes to come on and talk with us. It's good to be with you again, Eric. Yes, it is nice to be with you and nice to see you. I just heard some birds outside your window as you and I were sort of talking about and makes me think about, you know, one of the things that I'm finding particularly comforting in these difficult times, and I find comforting lots of times when the human world seems to be crazy as nature. Absolutely. That's always been one of the best therapies for me. And at the same time, I'm so aware of what different social locations we occupy as this pandemic presses down on our lives. You know, I'm one of

the lucky ones who has nature nearby. I get out into the woods and take some nice walks here in Madison, Wisconsin. And I'm also one of the lucky ones in that I'm a person who's worked in a home office for 40 years. So being housebound isn't a big deal for me. I have enough resources to not have to worry about paying next month's rent or putting food on the table for a family. And so many people, and obviously I don't have to show up in a workplace, so many people are not in my situation. So think this is a you know holy ground because it's occupied by such a wide range of human beings and it seems to me that one of the big opportunities in a crisis like this is to become aware more keenly aware of your place in the human ecosystem

and in my case to have to have great gratitude for it. You know, the downside for me is that I'm 81 and I have some underlying health conditions, so I'm one of those at-risk people. But I've been thinking a lot about folks who live their whole lives at risk, not because of age or health, but because of race or religion, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, poverty. And so I think it's very therapeutic for me to use this crisis, not as a time to ask why me, but a time to ask why not me and to become very aware of how many folks are much more vulnerable than I am. That's a really great point, and I share those sentiments.

I know that I am especially blessed in so many different ways, and it's easy to see that, and I keep sort of reminding myself, like, when I start to feel a little bit anxious and just go, well, that's good, And where are other people more affected? Where are people suffering more? Where can we help? And I think that's such a great perspective. It's one way of dealing with what's happening underneath it. And then there's still, even when we recognize all those things, there's still this underlying anxiety so many people are feeling, even if they are somewhat better situated. Its anxiety-inducing potential is nearly unlimited because we have no freaking idea what's going to happen. And we do not do well with uncertainty on that kind of scale.

And it's huge. Yeah, it is. You're absolutely right, Eric. It is huge. One way I've been framing it in my own mind is to say that, you know, throughout life, we have experiences where we suddenly realize that contrary to what our ego believes, we are not in control of a lot of things. And this is a global exercise in being not in control. Again, something that a lot of people on this planet know better than I do, because they've never been able to, you know, afford the illusion or the circumstances of their lives don't create the illusion that they're in control. But my life has. And so I need to take this as an opportunity to do some big learning around the fact that when it comes to matters of life and death, I'm not in control of anything.

And I think the therapy is partly to embrace that fact as fully as I possibly can, to not fight it, to not say, oh, if we could only do this or that, you know, everything would be fine, because it wouldn't be. I don't stand at those levers of power. At the same time, I think it's very important to counterbalance that with being attentive to what I can control. I can control my own behavior, you know, do the things that are being recommended now, self-quarantine, stay out of crowds, you know, change my normal habits. And the deeper we get into this, the more upside I'm finding in that, more opportunities to take those walks that we were talking about, to be with trees rather than people, that more opportunities to take those walks that we were talking about, to be with trees rather than people, and more opportunities to reflect deeply on my situation, our situation,

the situation. I think for me, learning has always been a huge therapeutic tool. You and I have talked before, and I've written, as you know, a lot about three experiences of deep depression in my 81 years of life. And I have to say that when I had the good fortune to sort of start coming through that profound darkness, through that profound darkness, what really started healing and advancing my life was learning what I could from having gone there and realizing how precious an ordinary day is. You know, what a wonderful thing it is to be able to get up at 5.30 if that's when you want to get up rather than feeling that you want to hide out in bed

until noon. What a wonderful thing it is to be able to have an idea and to start writing about it or talking with a friend about it. All these simple things to watch a sunrise with a cup of coffee in your hand. The learning that comes from being lost in the dark or from a circumstance of this sort that feels oppressive and imprisoning, for me, is a great piece of therapy. Yeah, I agree. I agree completely. I think also that idea of what you're hinting at a little bit is, what is the learning or the opportunity that's in the situation we're facing? I hear some people talking in ways that feel a little cavalier to me, like when they're like, well, every problem is a blessing in disguise. I'm like, well, let's slow down. Like, this is not a blessing for a lot, a lot of people.

So that feels a little cavalier to me. And yet, I recognize from my own work and my own practice that difficult situations and changes of this nature, they give us the opportunity to bring something different out. It allows us to approach things differently, see things differently, do things differently. And even though I wouldn't say, oh, it's a blessing that this is happening, we can find positive things that come out of what is happening. Yeah, to quote an old cliche, it's an example of making lemonade when you're given lemon. That's right. And I'm a big believer in the Socratic maxim that the

unexamined life is not worth living. And most of us live our days without examining ourselves or others, our relationship to others, the world in which we all live. We live our days without paying attention to much of that because everything is fine. But when everything isn't fine, either through personal failures and fallings or through social circumstances of the sort that we're living in now and will be living in for a long time to come, then we have a chance to think about a whole lot of things, to examine a whole lot of things more profoundly. I'm frankly hoping, and this too is therapeutic for me, that this crisis will cause Americans to think more seriously about their political choices and decisions. For example, I'm aware of people I know who as recently as a month ago were, when they had an opportunity,

railing against big government and what they, I think, mistakenly call socialism. And now those same people are demanding federal intervention on every level, from health care to corporate bailouts to fixes in the free market that will save their 401ks. And I'm wondering if they will learn from that. I'm wondering if, you know, when the economy gets a little more back into balance, if they will remember that big government is not all bad and federal rescue programs for people in need aren't all bad. I'm wondering if opinions will change about what's disparagingly called welfare, you know, for people who weren't born on second or third base and who had two or three strikes against them

the day they came into this world. I'm hoping that we can all do a lot of serious political reflection. To me, that not only means who we vote for and why, but it means how we talk to each other as we the people, how we try to sort this out, not just alone or not just in our silos and our lifestyle enclaves, but across lines of divide. I'm wondering if there's some way to turn this toward healing for our wounded body politic. There are some signs that that might be happening, and then there are signs that it's simply driving us even further into our political divisions across the battle line. That would be a very sad outcome indeed if it simply hardened our divisions. I agree. It will be interesting to see how that turns out, but I do think there is opportunity for us to come together. That is one of the possibilities, and I think it's one that's worth speaking. As we near wrapping up here, are there any sort of thoughts or practical ideas you'd have for people to care for their mental and emotional health during this period?

I'm a big believer in taking an opportunity like this, if you can, to slow down and even stop with a lot of what you're doing. Now, again, I know there are people who still have to show up at work. I know there are people who depend on showing up at work every day to get the bills paid. I work at home. I can continue to do a lot of my work as a writer online. So I don't face that particular dilemma. But, you know, we all know the stories of people slowing down and reflecting inwardly, even when they're living fast-paced or hard-pressed external lives. We know the story of a Nelson Mandela or others who have been imprisoned, using that time to reflect deeply, to get in touch with the imperatives of their soul,

and to draw on those imperatives, to animate them into action when the crisis begins to ease. So I think this is possible even if you have to keep moving or keep surviving. And we come out of something like that as, I think, truer and therefore more powerful people who have kind of tapped into our depths rather than skimming along on the surface the way we so often do in what we fondly think of as ordinary life. It really isn't ordinary life. It's just generating the illusion of being ordinary. This is as ordinary as anything else over the course of human history. So I'll construct a little parallel here that's probably largely bogus, but it comes to me anyway. At age 81, I've talked to a lot of people who are at 65 or 70, and they say, I'm about to retire or

to be retired. So help me to find an activity that I can fill my hours with, my empty hours with, because they're afraid of empty hours. And my constant advice has been, no, don't make that your first move when you retire. Use retirement initially as an opportunity to find out who you are in a way that you weren't able to do in the course of your active and engaged life. Take value time and space. Value emptiness. Value those moments in life when everything is up for grabs and you can't figure out the meaning of anything, that's a chance to get closer to the truth about who you are, about others, about the world. You know, there's this interesting word in our language, in the English language, Eric,

disillusionment. I've always been struck by how when somebody comes to us and says, I'm just terribly disillusioned, which of course is what a lot of people are feeling right now, our instant instinct is to put an arm around their shoulders and say, oh, I'm so sorry, how can I help you? Disillusionment is, in fact, the process of losing an illusion, and it's a good thing. We should be saying, you're disillusioned, congratulations. That means you've lost an illusion and you're that much closer to reality, to truth, about yourself, about the world, about something. And our question ought to reality, to truth about yourself, about the world, about something. And our question ought to be, how can I disillusion you further? Because that's an important journey to take toward the bedrock ground of reality. And I think this is a big opportunity for people around the world

to understand realities that we, in the developed world, the most highly developed countries, and we who have most benefited from relative affluence, it's a journey we don't take because we have the obstacle of stuff, material well-being, obscuring our vision. So I'd say, you know, once you've got over the punch in the gut, get disillusioned and make the most of it. Wonderful. Well, I think that is a great place for us to wrap up. So thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. It's always a pleasure.

Thank you, Eric, and thank you for this program. I'm sure that what other folks say is going to be help to a lot of people. Be well. Coming up next is Mirabai Starr. She is a writer and translator and speaks and leads retreats

on the interspiritual teachings of the mystics. Hi, Mirabai. Thank you so much for coming back on to spend a couple minutes with us. It's an honor, Eric. Thank you for thinking of me and reaching out. Yeah, you know, what I'm doing with these short segments is just trying to get some thoughts from some different people we've had on the show who I respect and admire, and kind of some of your thoughts on how to cope with these difficult and uncertain times. I think we're all feeling a lot of emotions and the goal isn't that we make those emotions go away, but just some ideas you have on coping.

Oh, sure. You know, I'm, of course, right in the middle of it myself and grappling with my own challenges, that is challenges to my peace of mind. But one of the things that's really striking me is that we are being invited to abide in a space of not knowing right now. And that is counterintuitive, especially to the Western mind that is so solutions driven. That's not to say that we shouldn't figure out ideal scenarios and act accordingly, but it's more than anything, the solutions seem to be not engineering solutions so much as stopping and being. Like even as a society, we're being asked to disengage and to turn inward, which is an age old mystical practice, you know, from the Tao Te Ching that says over and over again, that

the way of wisdom is to yield and to allow and allow what is the laws of nature to take their course or whatever, and to stop trying to exert our own will. In the Jewish mystical tradition, there's a similar kind of wisdom in the Sabbath, which in Judaism is the holiest of all holy days, and it happens every single week. happens every single week. And the underlying teaching of the Sabbath is, yes, about rest, but maybe more radically and subversively, it's about ceasing from our efforts to bend the world to the shape that we think it should be, and instead yielding to what is. And for those of us who are activists, you know, just for justice and environmental justice and social justice, not doing is counter to everything that our souls are telling us, which is how can I help? But it's not either or. paradoxical that actually the way we can help right now is literally to stay put, to stay in

our homes and to walk in nature, but to stay away from other humans and gathering spaces when we just feel like we've got to come together and do something. So there are ways to do something. And one of those ways is literally to stop participating in the machine of doing and buying and consuming and all of that, to just lighten our footprint for a minute and turn inward collectively and individually. So I just find that so interesting that that is the thing to do is to not do and to be. Yeah, this is a potentially unique opportunity to, as you said, slow down and spend a little bit more focus on the things that are close to us, you know, not the things that are, we're always rushing to get somewhere, to go do something, be somewhere. And this is really an

opportunity to pay closer attention to the things that are close to us right where we are. That might mean our family, it might mean our spiritual practice, it might mean reading, but to really reorient ourselves in that way. Yeah, and it is sort of a subversive thing because it also, look at what's happening to the economy, it also goes along with pulling back from our conditioning to overconsume, you know, the earth's resources. And by collectively pulling back on that, because we're forced to, you know, it's sending the economy into chaos, of course. But I think it's really helping a lot of us reorient toward what we really need and what is essential. And I feel like our mother, the earth is begging us to reconsider, you know, what is what is essential and to start embracing things that don't cost money or tax the earth's well being. well-being. So music and reading and spiritual practice and all of the arts, all of the things that don't require the expenditure of personal resources and the taxing of the earth, you know,

are going to become, I think, more valuable to us collectively. At least that's my hope, is that we can return to what really matters, and that after this crisis of this illness has passed, that we will retain the recalibration of our souls and our values and recommit to the beauty, to experiences of and sharing of beauty in this world. not knowing. None of us know what is going to happen. None of us know how this is going to turn out. None of us know how long this lasts, what comes next. There's so much anxiety around the unknown. What are some ways of relaxing into not knowing, relaxing into the unknown? Because that does seem to be a big part of what we all have to learn to do in this time. Yeah, that's such a beautiful, important question, Eric, and one that I sit with a lot.

The mystical teachings of all the spiritual traditions all point to the sacred, holy wonder of our inability to know and urge us to let ourselves down into that nakedness of spirit. In the Christian mystical tradition, it's the cloud of unknowing by the anonymous medieval author and also St. John of the Cross, Dark Night of the Soul, the 16th century Spanish mystic whose masterwork I've had the great privilege of translating from Spanish to English, Dark Night of the Soul, which is not necessarily about navigating difficult times, although that difficult experiences can be a catalyst for this spiritual emergency or crisis known to the awesome mystery of the divine and let all of our ideas about what's real and true and certainly with regard to spiritual life just fall away. So John of the Cross speaks about that it's as if the great master artist wants to paint your portrait because you are the most beautiful creature she ever created. And so I'm just saying she because this is what I do now.

Just fool around with it. Why not? And just trying to rebalance 5,000 years of patriarchy a little bit. So she asks you to pose for her so she can paint your portrait, John of the Cross says. And so you do. You're very flattered. Of course, Holy One, I'm happy to pose for your portrait. I'm glad you find me beautiful. And you pose and then you're sitting there for a really long time while the master is creating her masterpiece. And then after a bit, you feel like, huh, I've just been

sitting here, I should probably do something to contribute to this project. And so you strike a different pose thinking that it might be more fetching or alluring. And what are you doing when you do that you are interfering, John says, with the master, the master's work, and your only task is to be still and be your beautiful self and let her create this masterpiece. And Rumi, who is a 13th century Sufi mystic from Persia, Persian mystic, Turkey is where he died. And Rumi, who so many people know through his beautiful translations by Coleman Barks and Robert Bly, speaks a lot in his ecstatic, beautiful love poetry to God about this same thing. And I have in front of me, in fact, a Rumi poem that's been giving me comfort that

was translated by Andrew Harvey. So maybe I'll close with this and see if it speaks to you all. And again, I'm going to pronounce to the feminine. So you should know that that's what's happening. It's called the grapes of my body. The grapes of my body can only become wine after the winemaker tramples me. I surrender my spirit like grapes to her trampling, so that my inmost heart can blaze and dance with joy. Although the grapes go on weeping blood and sobbing, I cannot bear any more anguish, any more cruelty. The winemaker stuffs cotton in her ears. I am not working in ignorance.

You can deny me if you want. You have every reason. But it is I who am the master of this work. And when, through my passion, you reach perfection, you will never stop praising my name. That's a lovely poem, and I think that is a lovely place for us to wrap up. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom with us. Oh, it's an honor, Eric. And blessings to all of you who are grappling with these strange times. May you find a Sabbath space in your soul right now.

Thank you so much. You're welcome. Bye-bye. Bye. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer.

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So that's why we created The Big Take from Bloomberg Podcasts, to give you the context you need to make sense of it all. Every day in just 15 minutes, we dive into one global business story that matters. You'll hear from Bloomberg journalists like Matt Levine. A lot of this meme stock stuff is, I think, embarrassing to the SEC. Amanda Mull, who writes our Business Week buying power column. Very few companies who go viral are like totally prepared for what that means.

And Zoe Tillman, senior legal reporter. Courts are not supposed to decide elections. Courts are not really supposed to play a big role in choosing our elected leaders. It's for the voters to decide. Follow the Big Take podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. Our next guest is Lewis Howes, who has done many things. He's been an athlete and a podcast host and an author. He is perhaps best known for being the host of the podcast, The School of Greatness. Hi, Lewis. It's good to have you on again.

Thanks, Eric. Appreciate it, man. We are getting some folks together, and the point of these conversations is just to get some thoughts on you on how people can really manage their, mainly their mental and emotional health as we're going through this, right? There's so much that's out of our control. There's so much that we can't do. There's so much we don't know. But what we do know is that how we respond to this really is the issue, you know, how we each personally respond. Well, I think you already said it. I think your whole podcast

and mission is to continue to remind people about which wolf to feed inside of you. And as this has all unfolded over the last, I guess, week for me since this happened, there are a lot of people that have been reactive and constantly consuming the negativity and the fear-based mentality around it. And they're feeding that, I guess, bad wolf. And right when things started to happen, I came from a more of a place of calm and peace just because I've been trained that way over the years. I haven't always been that way, but I've been trained that way. And I know that you can't control what happens around you or the events that are around you or what people say or do, but you can control

how you respond once you have the training and you're prepared. And I think we just need to think about if you don't have the training, you can start training right now through simple reminders. When you're talking or consuming content that's negative or fear-based or you're having that anxious or worry mentality, then one practice can be to take your shoes and socks off and literally just feel the bottom of your feet on the ground, standing up and just taking deep breaths. Or you can sit down and take deep breaths and just have your bare feet on the ground to ground yourself and put your attention on your feet as opposed to the noise and the media or anxiety, worry, and stress and fear of the future. And that's just one simple practice you can take right now.

Anytime you go to that negative place, you can just ask yourself, is this supporting me in becoming a bigger leader, a better leader, someone who leads with love, with peace, with calm. And you definitely don't want to distance yourself too much from reality and facts and what's happening and making sure you're safe and aware and all those things.

But when it gets to a place of mental stress, mental overwhelm, well, you know, we just are unable to make better decisions from that place. And so I think it's just have the information and clear, you know, have things understandable of what's happening.

But when you notice you're going to a place of fear, what's happening. But when you notice you're going to a place of fear, connect your feet to the ground and take a deep breath for 60 seconds until you can calm your mind, then make a decision after that. That's for me, it's just going back to the basics during this time. We don't know what's going to happen. We don't know the future, but we do know what we can control right now. And that's putting our thoughts and our attention into something more neutral, more grounded, more positive. That's a great, very basic practice. Just kind of coming back into the body, out of the mind, you know, where it's, our mind is where, where fear tends to get fed. We feel it in the body often, but the body can also be a way of grounding us.

And I think one of the things a lot of people, you know, and it's worth thinking about, and I know I've been talking with a lot of coaching clients about is trying to get a sense of like, all right, how much news and information do I need right now? How much is going to serve me in being prepared and understanding and responding? And then how much of this is me just sort of as, as the poet Mark Nepo says, you know, being addicted to the noise of things falling apart. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's really easy for us to just, I mean, I've got my Apple watch on right now. I've got my iPhone and I get these news notifications just from CNN or other stuff that just pops up on the, the Apple devices. And it's really easy to see, oh, there's another 100 people who have died or this or that or whatever.

And for me, it's just turning it off. You're going to hear the information. You can't escape it completely. Someone's going to tell you something. You're going to get the news. And you can schedule to look at it once a day if you need to know all the information. But other than having the information, it's like you're just creating a train wreck in your mind over and over again. If you look at this stuff all day long, imagine being outside and seeing a car crash in front of you, but seeing it happen, you know, every two minutes throughout the entire day. If you witnessed a car crash and witness people in pain and fear, you would create that in your own body and in your own mind. So you need to remove yourself from seeing the car crashes on social media or in the news, on TV all the time.

Look at it once a day for a few minutes as opposed to every few minutes. And you'll just have more peace in your mind where you can go back to your vision of how can I be a better leader for myself, leader for my intimate partner, my family, my friends, my community? How can I lead in times of uncertainty as opposed to be the one that needs to be led? And this is work we all get to continue to do, whether we're great leaders or we're followers or trying to become better leaders, whatever it may be. I have to work on this too, and I get to work on this every single moment. When my girlfriend wants to remind me of all the craziness that's happening, I'm saying, yes, this is not going to slow down. And how can we choose

to respond in a loving, peaceful, or powerful place in this moment, as opposed to running in circles of watching the car crash every two minutes? I think that's just what we've got to create out of this space, this environment is unfortunate and as it is and how it's nothing like this has ever happened in my lifetime. As weird as it sounds, I get excited about the opportunity for growth. You know, we're all going through this together. How can we choose to make the most of this and find the meaning? You know, we may not know the reason why something's happening, why people are dying, why people are getting sick, why this virus got spread, why whatever, any situation in life, but we can find the meaning in those moments. And for me, I don't understand a lot of things, but I create meaning from situations, from quote unquote bad times, from unfortunate times.

And that's how I choose to get through it is finding meaning. and that's how I choose to get through it is finding meaning. So that's what I would reflect back on everyone listening is to really tap into like what can I do to grow and how can I learn and develop into a better leader of love and find meaning out of this even if bad things are happening around me. Yeah, I think that's a beautiful reflection. And I think it's been about a week since everything went completely crazy here in the U.S. It's been about a week since everything went completely crazy here in the U.S.

And I think today feels like a day where, for me, a lot of people are sort of popping their heads kind of back up above water a little bit and going, Okay, I have a little bit of sense of the way things are going to look for a little while, and it's going to be weird. And I think that it's a good chance for us to do what I think is the core business of life all the time, which is to think about what really matters to me. What's important? How does my time need to reflect that and then live into it? And I think this is, you know, a good time to do that. And a lot of that stuff that the sort of ordinary that we had before, that's all been shaken up. So it's a great opportunity to really go, what matters and how do I need to adjust my time? Okay. I'm working from home now. What does that mean? What, what's my responsibility to my work, to my family, to my, I just think it's a time to, for that deeper reflection. Absolutely. And it's, again, I get excited about these opportunities, not because people are in

pain or hurting or, you know, bad things are happening, but like you said, the time to reflect, like I'm in an intimate relationship with someone I've been with for about a year now. And I'm excited because you're going to find out quickly whether you actually want to be with the person that you're with because you'll be around them a lot more. Or if like there were things you were hiding under the rug or sweeping away just because it was convenient and you had a place to escape, you no longer have a place to escape for the next few weeks, essentially, or maybe longer. And you're going to find out, like, is my life going in the direction that I want it to go in my relationships?

Last weekend, we cleaned out our whole place. I cleaned out all, like, half my clothes I gave away. And I organized my closet. I organized everything in my physical environment and I felt like, okay, yeah, I'm just holding on to things that don't support me, that I don't use, that are unnecessary. Why? Ask yourself, what are you holding on to in your relationships that you don't need to anymore? It's not important to, or maybe that relationship needs to readjust or you need to let that person go for whatever reason. My finances,

you know, I'm checking everything in my finances. I'm letting go of subscriptions that I don't need just because I had them on and it was convenient. But it's like, let's really pay attention to what you need, what you don't need, what's important, like you said, and ask yourself those questions. So for me, the reflection time is beautiful and excites me to clean out the fat in my life, to feed the wolf that needs to be fed and not feed the wolf that is not serving me. Awesome. Well, I think that is a great place for us to wrap it up. Thanks so much, Lewis, for taking a little bit of time to come on. And it's always a pleasure talking with you. Appreciate it, man. Thank you. Next, we hear from Stephen C. Hayes, who is one of the founders of Acceptance and Commitment

Therapy. He is also the president of the Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Therapy and the Association for Contextual Behavioral Science. In his spare time, he also has managed to write 43 books and more than 600 scientific articles. Hi, Stephen. Thanks for taking a few minutes to join us again. I'm happy to be here with you. It's a pleasure to have you on. What I'm doing with these short

little conversations is really just trying to provide people with some additional support for dealing with their thoughts and emotions, you know, their mental and emotional health as we go through this difficult time. So I'm wondering if you have a couple ideas or thoughts that people could be considering or doing or trying in this difficult time. Well,'m wondering if you have a couple ideas or thoughts that people could be considering or doing or trying in this difficult time. Well, actually, there's a fair amount of research on psychological flexibility, the kind of things that we've talked about before, that's reflected in the ACT work and in my work. And it's been looked at in terms of how people come out on the other side of crises with violent storms or school shootings or violent crime. And so we kind of know some of the things that are important to do.

I mean, it involves emotional and cognitive openness. You've got to make room for kind of a variety of things. And take the time really to notice that because some of what's there may surprise you. Don't be embarrassed, for example, if you find dark humor or if you start to tear up unexpectedly or you get cranky about something you normally wouldn't. Or you reminisce. I mean, when you have something like this, it stirs the pot. And so you want to take the time to feel, choose to feel.

And when you do that, it gives you the kind of little space to then orient towards what's actually present in front of you. What is actually of importance now and focus on that. Not to get away from these emotions, but simply to put them in a trajectory that empowers you to be here now. It's what you've got to deal with. I'm working right now as I sit here on not touching my face so much. It turns out I actually did some research on this 40 years ago, and I have a little device here to record how many times I've touched my face, and that actually has a big impact. I showed some research 40 years ago, and I have a little device here to record how many times that touched my face. And that actually has a big impact.

I showed them research 40 years ago. So I'm learning from my own ancient research done for other reasons how to bring something into this present moment that's useful to me, maybe helpful to my family. And then as that happens, the important kind of step of what is there to be done. It isn't just about you and about your feelings and your fears. Again, not as a way to get rid of or away from the situation that we're in, but to channel some of that energy appropriately. Are there friends and family to call up? Are there connections to be made?

Little Facebook talks to have. Are there things to be written or things to be dealt with at your home? Are your kids getting enough of your attention? If they're home from school are you working with them to do things that are helpful to them in terms of their education and all of the things that you can do when you're in a crisis situation that could be pro-social and helpful to others. If you do those things, what the research shows, you come out on the other side of crises

like this with some post-traumatic growth. You'll find things that you haven't thought about for a long time, and it's kind of a gut check. And it may be that things that are of importance, things that you really know would be healthy for you to do, whether it's spiritual practices or rekindling old friendships or learning not to sweat small stuff or getting things going, the interests that you've let fall to one side

because you've been oh so busy dealing with the day-to-day work that you do, whatever. If you're like me, you're sequestered in place and thinking about, okay, what is of importance to me? And take the time to sort of do a check-in. And you may find that this crisis actually lifts you up and moves you forward in ways you didn't expect. That's a great perspective, and you touched on a lot of things there. I mean, I think the first being we can come through these things by growing and becoming stronger.

So what appears to initially be very difficult and hard, although it has its difficult and hard elements, if faced and dealt with, we can actually grow and strengthen. And so I think that's the, you know, first really important point. And then I think secondly, you're saying, allow the emotions to be there, allow yourself to feel what you're feeling. And, you know, don't, don't try and make all that go away, face it and be with it. And then finally, this is a really good opportunity to really think again about values. What matters to me?

What's important to me right now? Particularly as our routines are all shaken up, I'm finding it a really good time to stop and go, okay, well, what matters? What's important? And how should my time and actions reflect that? Exactly right. And if you do those things, you'll find on the other side of this that you actually have gains.

It isn't just coping or dealing or getting through. It's a matter of growing. And you use that kind of talk of strength. We know something about where mental toughness comes from. And it's the same thing that physical toughness comes from. It's strength and flexibility. You want to practice both those things. And so this is a good time to do it and to bring your whole self into this crisis situation. Your mind's going to give you a lot of scary thoughts and judgments, but back up a little bit and watch that too and take what's useful and leave the rest. That's a good habit to build for any situation. And crises are also

opportunities. A question I've gotten several times from people that I'd pose to you, you know, because I think it's a little bit around psychological flexibility, is people feeling really frustrated when they see certain people in the world not responding to this in the way they think is correct. So people who may not be distancing, people who may not be quarantining, people who may not be taking this seriously, and people are finding themselves getting really angry about that. How would you encourage those people to work with that skillfully? Well, it isn't necessarily a bad thing. I mean, this is what you're upset about is the lack of

pro-sociality and cooperation, because of course course those folks out on the beach in florida whatever the things that you're seeing you know may indeed be part of a process of you know spreading the virus and threatening us and our family and loved ones i think what research shows on that is that if you have graded opportunities to sort of correct in which group membership is still important, but those are redirect. I can give you an example. My 14-year-old said to me yesterday that, you know, if I get sick, he's talking about himself, I have almost zero chance of having any serious health benefits. So why shouldn't I have a sleepover? Well, you know, I didn't come back hard at him, but I kind of

walked through. Yeah, that's true, but we need to think of the whole family, the whole group, and that includes his 71-year-old dad, who wouldn't respond quite as well if he's out there doing sleepovers with his friends when they've been doing gosh knows what. And fortunately, the other parents weighed in with the same message. And we reined in this little natural, understandable, but bit of selfishness that was right there in my youngster. So I think graded sanctions that maintain the participation of people in the group. Now, when you're looking at something like the TV screen and you don't have an opportunity

to talk to those people out on the beach, that's a little different. That's self-righteousness because that anger that you're feeling and that's wrong and et cetera, if you really climb into that, it actually disconnects you from people. So yeah, if you have an opportunity with those around you where group membership is really important, pro-sociality comes from that shared bond. So you don't want to climb into your anger and push people away. You want to draw them in and make minor corrections about various things having to do with things that maybe happened in your household, about how to maintain sheltering in place or do things that are

responsible, whether it's wearing a mask or disinfecting or washing your hands or all those kinds of things. The stuff that we're doing with regard to what we see on the television screen, well, that's an indulgence. I don't think it's a bad thing to be upset about it, but it is a bad thing to crawl inside that upset and get self-righteous about it. Got it. And what about, you know, the other thing, I think the other emotion a lot of people are feeling is a great deal of fear. You know, there's fear about what's going to happen, where this is all going to lead, fear about the economy,

fear about food shortages, you know, a lot of, a lot of fear. And so how, how do you encourage people to sort of allow that fear, like not to, not to repress the emotion, to sort of allow it to be there, but also not get carried away or ruled by it? What are some ideas for working with this sort of fear of uncertainty, which is just all pervasive right now yeah what do you think was one is be careful of the judgment soon understand fear of the future that's inside a cognitive network of what's going to happen or what if this is what that but that's not really sure the future of the future is not here yet

but it really is is is kind of this verbal judgmental process driving it into a appearome stance. It is a scary situation. Fear is totally appropriate. But if you look at what people are doing when they mismanage the future inside all this judgmental chatter, if you're not able to back up a little bit, you can be driven to doing really unselfish things. I mean, you go out and panic buy, let's say.

Well, fine for you if it's still on the shelves, but how about the next person who really needs that toilet paper or whatever? I mean, do you really need 30 rolls of toilet paper? I mean, you could wash yourself with a bucket. I mean, what are you doing? And it doesn't make any sense, but it might create harm for others. So there, the second thing is catch that judgment, notice what's going back up a little bit, let the mind chatter, take what's useful, leave the rest. Use your diffusion mindfulness, kind of distancing skills from your own chatter and scary thoughts.

That's a good practice anyway. And then that other piece is values. What could you do that would be driven by your best self and what i suggest is think of somebody who would you think would be kind of a guide a hero a person if you could think of anybody in your whole life would be handling this situation pretty darn well imagine that person and imagine they get a chance to follow you around and give you a little bit of guidance and i bet you're going to find is you pick somebody who they show values and imagine they get a chance to follow you around and give you a little bit of guidance. And I bet you what you're going to find is you pick somebody who they show values and how they deal with situations, put those values in your heart, be your best self. And it's probably

not the person who runs out in panic, buys toilet paper. That's awesome. That's a great place for us to wrap up. Thank you so much, Stephen, for taking the time to come on and share a little wisdom with us. Thanks for the opportunity, Eric. Okay. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer.

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Follow The Big Take podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. choosing our elected leaders. It's for the voters to decide. Follow the Big Take podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. Next up is inspirational author and speaker Scott Stabile. We had interviewed Scott years ago about his book, Big Love, The Power of Living with a Wide Open Heart. Hi, Scott. It's a pleasure to have you back on. I'm always happy when we get a chance to talk. So thank you for taking a couple minutes. Yeah, I'm happy to spend some time with you, Eric. Thank you. Yeah. So what I'm doing in this episode, as I've shared with you, is just looking for some people who I admire to share some wisdom on how to deal with our mental and emotional health during this period. You know, what are some things that we can do

so that we can get through all this with some degree of sanity and grace? Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to share with you some of the things I'm doing, you know, and if that resonates with people listening, by all means, integrate it. You know, I'm finding meditation to be of critical importance for me right now. And my practice has been for the past few months, actually morning meditation. The first thing I do when I wake up, I use the app insight timer. I like, you know, that's an app I like. There are loads of teachers on there and many meditations. And even before I got out of bed, I mean, unless I really have to pee, then I'll go to the bathroom first. But other than that, I just lie in bed and I pick a meditation usually between 20 to 25 minutes

and start my day in that space. And for me, that sets a tone that I want to set for myself. What I'm noticing in my experience now, and I suspect a lot of people can relate to it, is that even upon waking up the past few days, the moment I wake up, there's anxiety. It's like waking up back into this totally unpredictable, unexpected, surreal experience. And my mind wants to immediately go into a state of fear on some level. So I don't believe there are rules for any of us about how we need to process this. There's no guidebook for dealing with a global pandemic and whatever you're feeling is okay. And I'm allowing for whatever I'm feeling. And at the same time, I'm looking at ways that I can mitigate the fear. And meditation has been great. Another thing that I've been doing is really considering that which I have control

over and that which I don't, because I feel like a lot of what takes us into a place of panic is feeling really out of control. And this situation right now is wholly out of our control. And if anything, the gift in that is really being shown in an exaggerated way, just how uncertain life is. It's like life is always uncertain. We know this. And now we're really being shown to stop and pay attention because we have no control over most anything. So I find the things that my mind wants to get fearful about or panic about, it will be things like how are other people showing up? What choices are they making? Are they following the protocols that I believe we all need to be following to keep our fellow humans being safe,

especially the elderly, especially those who are immunocompromised. And when I'm reading reports of people who aren't or seeing out there people who aren't through my window, it's frustrating, and it can be enraging. And at the same time, I have no control over that, right? That's just one thing I have no control over. So when I'm caught in those moments of reflecting on how those things are making me feel, I go back to what can I control in this moment? You know, what can I be controlling in my day so I can be controlling how I'm showing up in the face of this pandemic? The choices that I'm making for my well-being, how am I supporting my immune system now, right? The choices I can be making for other people's

well-being by socially distancing. If I take a walk every day, but if I see someone on the sidewalk, I get into the street. You know, I create space between us. I'm not taking risks around transmission. I've heard from several people have reached out to me about dealing with that anger they're feeling over people who are not following what we think is the right protocol to keep people safe. And you touched on that. Tell me a little bit more about how you deal with that anger. You know, part of how I deal with it is I look for myself in everybody and I see everybody in myself. So when I'm feeling angry about choices that people are making, I do my best to bring compassion to the story, to bring empathy to the story,

you know, to understand that we can't possibly know everything that's going on in the mind or in the experience of another human being. And I'm okay with getting angry. You know, it's okay. It's an okay response, especially during a time right now where there's so much unpredictability and uncertainty. There are so many unknowns around what we're experiencing. So when I feel angry, okay, that's okay. I see people doing things that I think are stupid and I get angry. That's okay. And at the same time, I try not to keep myself in that place of judgment and condemnation because one, it doesn't serve me in any way that's helpful. Like what I'm choosing to do through my social media feeds is to create content that offers

calmness, that offers information around social distancing. You know, I'm choosing not to condemn, but also to speak to the things I believe we should be doing, which is to listen to the experts, to listen to the scientists, to really consider our fellow human beings, to really, I posted something recently, there's no such thing as other people's grandparents. And for me, that's just a way of reminding people that our actions are impacting everyone right now. So the anger, for me, I feel my emotions and I allow it to be present. But I try not to stay in that place in terms of how I'm viewing everyone, because I also understand everyone's freaking out in their own ways. And information has been coming through in a way that hasn't always been clear at all. And some people are making choices based on information that they don't feel is clear.

And what I've noticed is the clearer the information has been, the less I've been noticing people break the protocols that we're all being told to make, you know? But other than that, I don't know what there is to do with our anger except allow ourselves to feel it and take control of what we're able to take control of in terms of the choices we're making. And if there are people in our direct lives, people we're in contact with, we're talking to on the phone who are expressing to us that they're not making smart choices right now to not stay silent, you know, to really speak up and say, hey, this is what we need to be doing right now. And I hope you'll reconsider what you're doing

and consider the health and well-being of everybody. Makes a lot of sense. And I think it is, you know, yeah, allow ourselves to be angry and then, but not get lost in it. And I think that's the trick right now. I think a lot of people are feeling is, okay, I'm feeling these things and I know it's good to feel my emotions. And yet in some cases, boy, I feel like I'm just drowning in them. Yes, absolutely. I think that we're all experiencing that to some degree.

And so for me, one of the mantras I've been living with these past days is to go within. Because Eric, I'll tell you, every time I am in my heart, I'm in love. So when I'm in the space of my heart, in the energy of my heart, the communication is always the same. And that communication is just energy of my heart, the communication is always the same. And that communication is just love, just love, just love. In that space, there's no fear, right? In that space, there is no anger. And that's why I'm retreating to my heart over and over. And I'm also going into my soul. And for me, the difference between the heart center and the soul center, my heart is just

commanding me to love, to be in the presence of love, because I know when I'm in that energy, I'm connecting to that vibration and that energy within all of us. And I know that it strengthens me. And the soul center for me is a place of just deep peace and stillness. When I connect to my soul, I feel connected to divine consciousness, to the understanding that all is okay. And so, when I'm in my fear, I'm in my head. And when I'm in my anger, I'm in my head. When I'm in my frustration, I'm in my head. And yes, it's okay and totally okay for us all to be feeling whatever we're feeling. But when I need a break, and when I want to be reconnected to what I know to be true, and when I want to be reconnected to that place of peace within, with everything

that is going on, I go to my soul. When I want to be reconnected to the high vibration of love, I read my heart. And, for some of you listening, you may be wondering, well, how, how, how? How do we get there? For me, it's understanding that that space is alive within all of us all the time. So, we are embodied with an ocean of love. We are embodied with an ocean of peace within us. If you're not finding that, I encourage you to seek it, pray to it, to write letters to it, to invite it, to be more present in your life right now. And in my experience, the more energy I give to finding the love and the peace that lives within me, the more it presents itself to me. So I brought up

meditation as the very first thing. And that's one of the ways that I find is a direct channel to get into my heart or to get into my soul. You know, deep connection with others who are willing to go there with you, but seek it out. We are embodied with so much love and we are embodied with so much knowing, so much wisdom that transcends any of the fears of our mind, any of the panic of our mind. And when we're in that place, we are reconnected to what is most true within us, that we are divine beings of peace and love. And the more often I return to that place in my day, the more calm I feel. And I'm certain it's why I won't pretend that I'm calm all through the day. I'm dealing with my own fears and my own anxieties in the face of this. And at the same time, I'm also embodying a lot of peace and a lot of calm

and a lot of trust. And that's not coming from my mind, right? It's coming from a deeper place, a deeper source of wisdom that I believe we all carry within us. And it's the same source. Wonderful. That is a great place for us to wrap up in a really beautiful and powerful idea there, which is, you know, drop into these deeper levels, this vastness that is waiting for us at deeper levels underneath our thoughts. It's a beautiful thought and idea. Thank you, Scott. Absolutely. You're so welcome, Eric. Thank you for doing what you're doing, the work you've been doing and for doing this right now. My pleasure. And thank you so much for coming on. All right. Love to all.

Our final guest is Sharon Salzberg, a world-renowned Buddhist teacher and meditation retreat leader. Hi, Sharon. Thank you so much for taking a few minutes to talk with us again. Oh, well, thank you for doing this. It's a pleasure to talk with you anytime. What I'm doing with this little episode is I'm just asking people who I respect their thoughts on dealing with thoughts and emotions, difficult thoughts and emotions during this period. So I'm wondering if you could just share with listeners some ideas you have for, you know, how to get through this time with a little bit of sanity and grace. Well, let's hope so.

It's difficult. And I think that's maybe the first thing to acknowledge. It's like you have to give yourself a break and be very forgiving of the things you feel. Maybe you thought you worked out anxiety a long time ago or, you know, whatever it might be. But we feel what we feel. time ago or you know whatever it might be but we feel what we feel and the idea is really not it's not that helpful to blame yourself but rather to see if there's a way of relating that could be less entangling you know and less overwhelming and so i always tell myself remember to breathe just take a breath which helps me return to the moment because i found also a lot of

like anxiety for example will be the cascade of thoughts of future projection you know this is going to happen and that's going to happen and that's going to happen and then just coming back just like take a breath just come back is actually a tremendous relief and also things like walking walking meditation even if you're walking back and forth in an apartment, it's like moving the energy through your body and helping to get more grounded. And of course, I believe very strongly in the force of loving kindness. And so whenever we add a sense of isolation to something we're feeling, it's just going to exacerbate it. And so it's kind of bizarre, I know, in a time of social isolation, where we need to actually have a powerful sense of

connection. But I have found that you really can cultivate that kind of connection through something like loving kindness meditation, even though you may not even be seeing anybody else. Right, right. Yeah, those are all really good, good tips. I think, you know, taking those, those deep breaths and just pausing is, is so helpful. I think another thing that I think is kind of crucial is to understand that, you know, you don't have to do these things just once. Early in my practice, I used to kind of long for the moment of the great breakthrough experience. And after that, it was all smooth sailing. And it kind of doesn't work that way. We're always kind of starting over and starting over and you will get overwhelmed or you'll get lost, you'll get incredibly distracted,

you'll get reactive. But you'll find, I think if you really can step back and look, or you'll get lost, you'll get incredibly distracted, you get reactive. But you'll find, I think, if you really can step back and look that you're, you're coming back to center sooner and sooner. So again, it's, you know, it's kind of a call to please don't blame yourself for whatever you're feeling. But let's find what's workable about the situation. Yeah, I'm finding in talking to, you know, a great number of people, everybody is having some challenges right now, even people that we might look at and go, oh, they've got it all figured out. No, they're, they're afraid to right now. They're distracted right now. They're struggling right now. And I think that's a really important reminder,

like, yeah, of course, we all are. Yeah, I think we all are. Absolutely. And, of course we all are. Yeah, I think we all are, absolutely. And, you know, some people are in a position where they can actually be of help to somebody. You know, a lot of people tell me they're grocery shopping or for an elderly person or something like that, but not everyone is in a, you know, position to be able to actually do that, but still we can have that profound sense of connection. It will ease some of that kind of fear and sense of loneliness. What other ideas or thoughts do you have for people? It's such a bitter irony because it's a little bit like going on a retreat

for people who can't afford to stay home, which leaves out a lot of people whose reality is that they're still going out there to work because they have to right um you know and and so uh if you are staying home then it does have that characteristic of of being on retreat which people you know used to pay for like because there's something about realizing okay there are many distractions that are not available to me right now can i really utilize this time not just to survive it but to actually deepen something within me and i think that's actually possible and of course for me i come

back to meditation practice because it's available, it's personal. You don't need a group to do it. You don't need equipment to do it. It's really using the power of your own mind, basically, to create some space, you know, to realize we might have options, like when we're completely consumed with worry or something like that, or madly thinking about the way in the future, you know, we don't see many options. It's like our world just shuts down. And the more we can change the way we pay attention, which is what meditation is, and get more present, more balanced, more open-hearted, the more we will see options and action will follow from that.

Well, I thought the way you and I might wrap up our time together would have you just lead us through maybe like a three or four-minute meditation, loving-kindness or any type of meditation you'd like to guide us on for three or four minutes here to wrap up our time together. Sure, I'd be happy to. So you can sit comfortably. I assume none of you are driving. So eyes open or closed, however you feel most at ease. Loving kindness meditation is very much a spirit of generosity of the heart.

It's gift givinggiving. It's offering. We offer this sense of blessing, of well-wishing, and we begin with offering that to ourselves. The way we do it is we choose three or four phrases, gently repeat them over and over again. Phrases like, may I be safe be happy be healthy live with ease

live with ease means in the things of day to day life not be such a struggle may I be safe be happy be healthy live with ease. Remember the feeling tone is one of offering. It's gift giving. We're offering this to ourselves.

And if you find your attention wandering, that's okay. See if you can gently let go and come back. And think of somebody that has helped you in the past or is helping you right now. Or somebody who, when you think of them, you smile. They just kind of lift your spirits. Maybe you've never met them. Maybe it's a child. Maybe it's an adult. Could be a pet even. Is there someone who when you think of them, you smile? So if there is, you can bring them here. Get an image of them or say their name to yourself.

Get a feeling for their presence and offer the phrases of loving kindness to them. May you be safe, be happy, be healthy, live with ease. And then all beings everywhere, all people, all creatures, all those in existence, near and far, known and unknown. May all beings be safe, be happy, be healthy, live with ease. So thank you. Thank you, Sharon. Thank you so much. That's a wonderful way for us to wrap up talking with each other.

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