The One You Feed - Tony Dekker of Great Lake Swimmers

Episode Date: March 1, 2014

This week on The One You Feed we have Tony Dekker.Tony Dekker is the founding member, lead singer and the lead songwriter of the band Great Lake Swimmers. He has also recently released an excellent solo album, Prayer for The Woods.The Great Lake Swimmers, were founded in 2003, and have released five studio albums since. Their 2009 record, Lost Channels, was shortlisted for the prestigious Polaris Prize, and their followup, New Wild Everywhere, was released in 2012. The band is working on a new album currently. In This Interview Tony and I discuss...The One You Feed parable.How important the natural world is in feeding our good wolf.His life growing up on the farm.The various places that he has recorded over time and the value of "place".The value of considering our own death.Our shared love of Leonard Cohen.The next Great Lake Swimmers record.His trip to Antarctica.Prayer of the Woods poem and song.Tony Dekker LinksGreat Lake Swimmers homepageTony Dekker homepageGreat Lake Swimmers Amazon PageSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A lot of what has to do with feeding this good wolf has to do with the natural world for me. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like, garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit.

But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like

why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallyknowreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really No Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us today. Our guest on this episode is musician and songwriter Tony Decker.

And those who know Tony as frontman for the acclaimed Canadian band Great Lake Swimmers will be happy to hear his new solo album, Prayer of the Woods. You can find out more about Tony Decker and this podcast in our show notes at oneufeed.net slash Tony. Hi, Tony. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to get you on. I'm a fan of your music, and I was first exposed to you

in the mountains of Colorado, which is, I will argue, perhaps the ideal place to hear your music. A lot of people try and write about nature, and I think we'll talk a little bit more about this as we go on, but it's really hard, I think, to do it in a way that's not corny or heavy-handed. And nature's got that sort of power and beauty that's really difficult to capture. But amazingly, I think your music does capture that with that power and beauty. So I'm really excited to have you. And our podcast is called The One You Feed, and it's based on the old parable where there's a grandfather who is talking with his grandson, and he says, in life there are two wolves inside of us who are always at war. One is a good wolf who represents kindness and love and joy,

and the other is a bad wolf who represents hatred and greed and fear and pick your poison. And the grandson stops and he thinks and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start the interview off by asking you what that parable means to you in both your life and in your work. Yeah. Well, I really liked the par, and I've been thinking about it a little bit this afternoon, sort of just in preparation of talking with you. And for me, I think that a lot of what has to do with sort of feeding this good wolf has to do with the natural world for me and being in touch with that very closely. And things that are important to me and my work tend to very much revolve around that

and not so much the negative aspects of it, but the positive aspects of it. And I think that we're surrounded by both today. And more and more we're understanding the huge effects of the negative aspects of what's happening to our natural world, in a larger sense the planet and our environment in general and what we're doing to it as societies and as humans. But for me, the focus from the beginning with my work with Great Lakes Swimmers and my writing has always been to really focus on the sort of the

beautiful aspects of it and the positive aspects of it and to not take on such a sort of a doomsday approach to it, which I also appreciate and respect and I think is necessary. But I think that really focusing on the beautiful parts, the stuff that we already have and the stuff that we can preserve and how we can make things better for our future generations is sort of something that I've tried to focus on. Excellent. And that connection to nature obviously really comes through in your music.

When did you first discover that? I think I read somewhere that you grew up on a farm. When did you first sort of notice that nature did something for you that was really positive? Well, I think that being raised in a really rural community, a farming community, growing up in a small town on the north part of Lake Erie in Ontario, being around farmers, for example, growing up, you come to realize very quickly that a lot really depends on things like weather systems and the environment. And you have to pay very close attention to these kinds of things, what's happening in the natural world, in order to kind of see it produce kind of, you know, over the years. And I think as a young kid, that was really embedded in me. that really that was really embedded in me I really came to terms with having a certain amount of

respect for it and also realizing the sort of the power of it and that ultimately we're at its mercy and I think that in a farming community you see that a lot more directly so that's something

that's been with me since quite a young age. The impact and the sort of connection with nature, because it's sort of inescapable in that case, right? Because like you said, you are so dependent upon it. Another thing that comes up in your work a lot is that you talk about sort of a kind of spirituality in nature, in your work a lot is that you talk about sort of a kind of spirituality in nature and a spirituality in the places that you've chosen to record. And I was curious what that word spirituality means to you. I think it means a lot of different things to people, but I'd be really interested in what it means to you. It all ties into like a sense of kind of reflection. It ties into like a sense of a higher power potentially or a greater power than yourself.

To me, that's what it kind of means. It's a way to, yeah, to kind of like connect with something greater than yourself. I think that's what I mean when I talk about spirituality and in the natural world. And as far as the environments, there's this kind of, there's a sense why we've chosen to mostly do location recordings over the last decade of recording music, is to kind of tap into that sense of atmosphere and to tap into some of that energy that I feel that really charges up some rooms that are special. And by special rooms, I mean, there are certain rooms, there are certain buildings that are given. And by special rooms, I mean there are certain rooms, there are certain buildings that are given importance in various different ways in our society. And it includes churches in particular that I found that they really draw out a certain kind of performance

in me as a musician, as a singer, and also with the musicians and people that I work with to make these records. So that's been a really important thing, too, is to sort of draw on some of that sort of unique energy that I feel is there in special buildings like that. I know that the most recent Great Lakes Swimmers record was recorded in a studio. How about your most recent record, your solo album? Where did you record that one? The solo record was recorded in a sort of historic church on the St. Lawrence River in the Thousand Islands region,

which is mostly where we recorded our 2009 album, Lost Channels. But we had done a few sessions in the church there called St. Brendan's, St. Brendan the Navigator, and it's on a pretty unique sort of rock cliff overlooking the St. Lawrence River. And it's been there for, since I think the late 1800s, if I'm not mistaken, sometime around that time anyway. And so I had always had this place in mind, in the back of my mind,

I could really like to go back there. And I had a really positive recording session there, a really great session, and always wanted to go back. And so when I had this group of songs for this most recent solo album, I went back there. So that was at a town called Rockport, Ontario.

I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really Know Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer.

We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you. And the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Hello, my friend.

Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, Not Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really, No Really. Yeah, really.

No really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason Bobblehead. It's called Really, No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, I love the new record. Your solo record is really enjoyable. I want to ask you a couple questions

about some of the songs that are on there. I know musicians and writers hate to be asked what a song means, so I'm going to try and stay away from that. But there are things in them that I think are relevant to kind of what we were talking about. The one is in Final Song. My body has lost its grip Won't you think of me in a good light Won't you think of me with a smile Won't you think of me by the water

Won't you think of me once in a while Won't you think of me once in a while? It's clearly you're pondering death and sort of your legacy afterwards, and I'm curious if that's been on your mind lately. Is that a theme that you sort of think about often, sort of pondering that and how it, maybe how it influences the actions we take today? Well, yeah, I think that it is something that I think about quite a bit, almost every day. But again, it's not necessarily meant to be seen as a dark or macabre kind of thing.

I think that it's, yeah, I don't know. I kind of just needed to write a song like that. I don't know, I kind of just needed to write a song like that. I agree with you about the reflection on death not necessarily being a dark or depressive activity. A lot of Buddhist meditation will focus around that idea, which is by, if you recognize that you're going to die, it makes you more aware of what you have and more cognizant of the actions you take and the thought you put into your life. You're a big Leonard Cohen fan. I think as a Canadian, you guys share that in the background.

What about Leonard Cohen's work is really special and important to you? Well, I think that as a songwriter, he really sets the bar. There's a number of songwriters that I sort of look to and I say that's the high watermark. That's one of the people that I think really are within the economy of writing a song, are able to really express something that transcends the medium and the form and goes beyond, you know, singing and songwriting and poetry even, and becomes something even deeper than that. And, you know, and speaking about spirituality, I mean, it becomes something spiritual in

a way. I've been listening to Leonard Cohen now for, since my teens, so that's been close to 20 years. I just kind of see him as a sort of a spiritual leader or a priest almost, if so. One of the things about Leonard Cohen that he's known for is writing, you know, 50 verses to get five. Is your process anything like that? Do you spend a lot of time working over, your verses are very, for lack of a better word, there's a lot of poetry in them. Do you spend a lot of time trying to get those words just right in the same way? Yeah, I think so. I'm really happy when I can come up with a lyric that fits well into a song,

and because it's not always the case, because I think that poetry and songs are different things. And I think that they don't always translate. And there are times when I think I have a great piece of writing, but it just doesn't really work as a song. And so then I either have to abandon it or, or modify it and work with it and shape it some more to bring it into a form

that will be effective, I think in, in song and with melody. in it or modify it and work with it and shape it some more to bring it into a form that will be effective, I think, in song and with melody. And it works the other way, too. Some things sound great when they're sung and they're meaningful and they express an emotion or they express something abstract or an emotional feeling or almost like a stream of consciousness or a collage of words, but they don't scan well as a poem, you know. So I guess I'm looking for the place where those kinds of things overlap. Do you write poetry on its own? Do you have any plans to publish anything like that, or are you

pretty much strictly a songwriter? Oh, I don't have any plans to really publish anything like that. I do write poetry as much as I write songs, but I mean, I really feel that where I'm at is writing

and performing songs. And you guys, I think I heard you say that the Great Lakes Swimmers are already at work on the next record? Yeah. Some people have said to me about doing a solo record that that kind of signals something, like maybe some sort of discord

or discontent within the band, but we've already started doing some sessions and we're working on a new record right now. So all is well with the band. We're well into it. Are you back in the studio or do you have a special place? We've done a few sessions in pre-production. I'm still kind of trying to decide on how it's all going to unfold. I'd really like to go back to a special location, because I feel that it sounds kind of like backwards, but after doing four records worth

of location recording, so to speak, in different kinds of buildings and scenarios, going into the studio was a bit of an experiment for us, and for me me after many years of not recording in a studio. And so for me, it's reinforced the idea that there is something special that comes out of special location recordings, whether it's acoustics and something that's sonically a little bit different than what you can get in a studio, which is a big part of it.

And, you know, there's nothing that really can replace that sort of natural reverb. And also getting something out of the room itself as a place, as a kind of as an entity into itself, as almost another instrument and force, you know, in the process. So I've got a few things in mind that I'd like to maybe try out for the next one. Listening to a lot of your music, it sounds like you're sitting in a forest when it's being written or a lot of different places. Where do you write usually? Well, I try to get out as much as I can and, you know, get out and be close to nature,

be in the woods and be away from cities. And that's what I feel I really draw upon when I sit down to write. I've got a little apartment in Toronto, and it's really near a big park here. I tend not to be able to write on the road so much, unless I'm taking a trip specifically for writing. It's those kinds of trips into more remote areas that I think leave the deepest impact on me, and it's what I draw upon when I sit down to write, regardless of where that is. Speaking of remote areas, you went on an educational tour or trip to Antarctica. Can you share a little bit about that? I'm fascinated by

going to Antarctica at all. Yeah, that was a really unique opportunity that came up. And there's an organization called Students on Ice. And it's a Canadian-based organization. based organization and they do trips with about 50 students from around North America primarily but around the world and they have lectures and I'm talking about like you know really a full spectrum of what you might find in a curriculum almost that there would be for example a marine biologist or an environmental scientist. They had an arts component which had visual artists and writers and they had asked me to come along to do a music component. And so I went along and I think that I learned as much as I was able to teach about songwriting and a little bit of storytelling and song and sharing my creative process and basically being open to a group of students who had any interest

in a creative process. And by the end of it, I was working on songs with some of the kids there. So that was a really important trip for a number of reasons. There was that aspect of it, which I think is fantastic for some of our future leaders. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really Know Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like... Why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal?

The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us tonight. How are you, too?

Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really, No Really.

Yeah, Really. No Really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's it like in Antarctica? Where do you stay? Is there a community?

Is it all one building? I don't really understand what it's like there. Well, basically, there was a repurposed and sort of modified research vessel, a ship that is where everyone stayed. There's cabins on the ship, and that was home base. Not one of those big cruise ships that you would imagine, but quite a small, Delting's considered quite a small vessel, a research vessel.

It doesn't technically belong to anyone. People there have, there are a number of different countries that have interest there, but there was, I think there's a moratorium that's still in place on ownership and exploitation of it as a continent, a special place. But as far as how it's set up, there are outposts there, but they're very remote research stations. Antarctica sounds like a great place for the next record. Have you considered that?

I think that might be the final straw with your engineer, if you tried to go to Antarctica. Absolutely. They have a hard enough time with church halls and the like. So I'm going to break the cardinal rule of asking you what something means. I'm going to read you a lyric from the new album, and I'm just really curious because it's very, I really like it. And it says, it's from the Empty Arms song. It says, A loner landed and made new land. Empty arms starting over again. Held new words over old thundering ways. A loner landed and made new land Empty arms starting over again Held new words over old thundering waves

And clear eyes for a life less in love No motors yet It's really that last sentence, held new words over old thundering ways. Is there any more that you could tell us about that? Well, it's interesting that you picked that one because it kind of ties into a little bit of what we were talking about earlier.

I get really excited when a poem, when a piece of writing that I've written separately without coming up with any sort of melody or rhythm or structure for, fits really well into a piece of writing that I've written separately without coming up with any sort of melody or rhythm or structure for fits really well into a piece of music. And that was one where I didn't have to change very much in order for it to just kind of drop in. It worked well both as a poem, worked really well both as a poem and a song. And I really spent a lot of time trying to distill that language and really sort of make it as concise as I could. And this is something I strive for with all of my songs, but I think that the more you sort of break them down and try to pull them apart, the more rewarding that they

sort of become. And I think that as you do that, you start to find connections within it that start to tell the story in what I hope is an interesting way. Yeah, and I liked sort of back to the wolf theme and feeding the good wolf, the held new words over old thundering ways sort of felt to me like that, feeding the good wolf potentially with these new words and this new life versus the old thundering ways, which at least I was interpreting for myself as old habits, old ways of thinking. Yeah, I think that's a fair reading for sure. Do you have anything else on the theme of the show that you would like us to talk about

that we haven't discussed? I think one of the great ways that you can feed the good wolf, you know, like as we started talking about is that I found that I've been thinking about it a lot lately, is trying to maintain this childlike sense of wonder. And we know there's a big difference between being childish and being childlike, but I think trying to kind of maintain that one part of yourself that is always kind of curious and is childlike and comes out the world in a childlike way, it really allows you to embrace it in a different way, and especially when it comes to the natural world. And I feel that for myself, I'm endlessly curious and endlessly fascinated by things that I come into contact with in the natural world, curious and endlessly fascinated by things that I come into contact with in the natural world, whether it's the way that like a leaf works or the way that, you know, the wolf, a wolf pack will build a network of, you know, pathways through, through the underbrush of a forest, you know, and, and I think that there's something that we can all learn from that. And I think

things like caring for animals or even just caring for plants is a step closer to caring for each other and caring for people. On the song off the new record, A Prayer for the Woods, I know that you found that as a sign at a park. Was the whole poem there, or did you end up writing additional parts for it? No, that's the whole poem. I adapted certain parts of it and changed the language a little bit just because some of it was kind of outdated language, but I wanted to really preserve the sort of the integrity of it. Hurt me not Hurt me not

What I really like about it and the way you interpret it is really beautiful. I like the way it sort of brings home the value that those forests have and to all the objects that are in our lives, forests have and to all the objects that are in our lives, which I thought was a very poignant way to sort of connect ourselves to the forest. I think so, too. And it's very simple language. It is almost like a parable, and it does have that kind of sense of childlike kind of wonder to it.

Yep. Well, I think we're kind of at the end of our time here. So Tony, I want to thank you very much for, for joining us. It's been a pleasure talking with you. As I said earlier, I really love your music and looking forward to hearing the new Great Lakes Swimmers record. My pleasure. Thanks for, thanks for having me. Yeah, you're welcome. Take care. Okay. You too.

Bye. Bye. Bye-bye. You can find out more about Tony Decker and this podcast in our show notes at oneufeed.net slash Tony.