The One You Feed - Uncovering the Truth About People Pleasing with Dr. Aziz Gazipura

Episode Date: February 13, 2024

In this episode, Dr. Aziz Gazipura shares how we can begin uncovering the truth about people-pleasing behaviors. He explains the difference between kindness and niceness and why it’s important to understand the distinction between them.  You’ll also discover ways to embrace the power of compassionate communication for a better relationship with yourself and others. In this episode, you will be able to: Unleash your potential and boost self-confidence Differentiate between niceness and true kindness Embrace authenticity and express your true self Discover the power of inner wisdom over external validation Harness the mind’s power to take intentional action To learn more, click here!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Other people's feelings are not bank robbers holding guns at you, and that's the biggest insight to really set us free. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like, garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do.

We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like

why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, And does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really No Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Dr. Aziz Ghazipura, the world's leading confidence expert.

He teaches people how to learn confidence so they can eliminate self-doubt, master conversations, accelerate in their careers, and create deeply fulfilling relationships. Aziz completed his doctoral training at Stanford and Palo Alto universities and is the founder of the Center for Social Confidence. Today, Eric and Aziz discuss his new book, Less Nice, More You. Stop hiding and become the most bold, authentic version of you now. Hi, Aziz. Welcome to the show. Hey, Eric. It's good to see you. Yeah, I'm happy to have you on again.

You were on our show in the past. I've been a guest on your show, and every time I talk to you, I learn something and I just really enjoy the conversation. So it's a real pleasure to have you back. We're going to be discussing your book called Less Nice, More You. But before we do that, we will start with a parable like we always do. And in the parable, there's a grandparent who's talking with their grandchild and they say, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love. And the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. The grandchild stops, they think about it for a second, and they look up at their grandparent,

and they say, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. Yeah. It's interesting because each time you ask me that, it would be a different answer, depending upon what's happening in my life. And right now I see that the one wolf that many people are feeding, that I can feed, that nice people can feed, they have a story go through their mind. That person's upset with me. Did I do that right? Am I okay? And then there's this flurry of follow-up thinking, damage control, replays, what should I do? Maybe even running out and doing things, maybe running that whole day,

maybe calling someone, apologizing, taking all these actions from that seed. And what I've found is that in my life and the clients that I'm helping is, how much can we go right back to that moment where someone's upset with me? And instead of running out and doing the thing to do is to actually calm yourself and breathe and come right back to here and just let that story go. And you might go talk to that person. You might go do something, but much of the time not. It's a real tricky wolf, that one. Because it's like, you're not going to pay attention to me? Oh, look out. Enjoy your life. It's going to be horrible. And so then it hooks you. And so the thing to do is nothing. And that's the wolf truly of more silence, of breathing, just being right here

is the one that I'm experimenting and practicing and helping other people feed a lot more right now in my life. Yeah. I mean, even within that parable, I say, you know, the good wolf, which represents things like kindness, right? And I think this is the core challenge for me. And you address it a lot in the book, right? Which is the difference between niceness and kindness. And you talk about niceness sort of being a survival strategy. And so for me, this is a very good topic because I definitely have that built-in rule of don't upset anyone. And if you do, there's a problem. You've done something wrong.

You've got to fix it. Deep anxiety or shame around it. And I also have a value of my top value is kindness. And so for me, discerning between those two is often really, really difficult. And so I thought we could start there. Like, how do we tell the difference between when we are being kind, expressing a value, and when we are being nice? And by nice, I want to really sort of emphasize the part of the book that you talk about where

it's not so much, we think of nice as a value, but in this case, we're really talking about it almost in the sense of a compulsion, or we're talking about it in a conditioned way of relating to the world, not a choice. Yes. I think one thing that's important to start at the beginning is defining the terms because people can get hung up on the semantics of, wait, nice is good. That's what you're saying. That's why the first chapter of the new book, Less Nice, More You, is nice versus kind. So ultimately, when people are being nice, they might be doing something for somebody else to take care of them, to include them. But often what's underneath, it's the motive. What's underneath that is I should do this so that

I'm a good person. And you might say, well, yeah, that's a good enough motive. Well, you can hear underneath that it's a thin layer away from fear. And what happens if you don't? What happens if you can't? What happens if you maybe want to choose something else? All of that starts to create this rigidity, and there's a lot of anxiety right underneath that. Not to mention complex situations. Like, what about when someone wants something, but is it the best to give it to them? Sometimes kindness might be saying no, right? So that's where it gets more complex. And kindness as a virtue, as a value that you want to live, has a lot more wisdom and it looks different in different situations. Whereas niceness is about following the rules so that I'm good and so that I am a good person. And why do I

want to be a good person? Is it because I'm so virtuous? No. And underneath with niceness, it's I want to be a good person so I am seen in the right way and I can feel good about myself and I can fit in and I can have that sense of I'm okay. And so that's where it comes back to survival. So it might look like a very similar behavior on the outside, but it's an entirely different inner world. So something I'm going to be doing a little more often is ask you, the listener, to reflect on what you're hearing. We strongly believe that knowledge is power, but only if combined with action and integration. So before we move on, I'd like to ask you, what's coming up for you as you listen to this? Are there any things you're currently doing that are feeding your bad wolf that might make sense to remove? Or any things you could do to feed your good wolf that you're not currently doing. So if you have the headspace for it, I'd love if you could just

pause for a second and ask yourself, what's one thing I could do today or tonight to feed my good wolf? Whatever your thing is, a really useful strategy can be having something external, a prompt or a friend or a tool that regularly nudges you back towards awareness and intentionality. For the past year, I've been sending little good wolf reminders to some of my friends and community members. Just quick little SMS messages two times per week that give them a little bit of wisdom and remind them to pause for a second and come off autopilot. If you want, I can send them to you too. I do it totally for free and people seem to really love them. Just drop your information at oneufeed.net slash SMS and I can

send them to you. It's totally free and if you end up not liking the little reminders, you can easily opt out. That's oneufeed.net slash SMS and now back to the episode. There's a lot in there I'd like to spend a little bit of time with. The first is the word should, right? Because the word should has become a sort of negative word in the self-help space. And I don't always think it necessarily is because sometimes my virtues tell me I should do something, right? That's coming from a value, right? There's a value that says you should do this. So sometimes I think it's a useful shortcut. What I think you pointed to more importantly is underneath what's the motivation. And I've told this story on the

show a few times where when I got sober, I would notice this voice that just came and it would be like, I need a drink. I need a drink. I need a drink. And as I was sober a little bit longer, that voice changed and it changed in a way that on the surface won't sound better because it was like, I want to die. I want to die. I want to die. And so I got really curious about what is causing that? When is that showing up? And what I realized that shows up when I have to make someone unhappy. It showed up most often when I was stuck between two people, like say my wife and my mother. They both wanted something from me and I couldn't give it to both of them. How do you please them both? I can't please them both. And so that voice would show up.

Yeah. And so that was a real clue to me that like, there is this deep rule inside me that says, I have to make you happy. And if I don't, there's a real problem. And you say somewhere in the book, you might experience a disproportionate amount of shame and fear when you don't live up to the rules of one of your roles. And so a voice that says, I wish I was dead is a disproportionate. Yes. Right. Is a disproportionate amount of shame and fear. And so I know that again, underlying this for me are some very deep rules about I have to keep you happy, I have to do the things you want. And that has plagued me, you know, for a lot of years. And so what has also plagued me, as I mentioned a little bit earlier, is this ability to discern, right? And I find it like, let's take my mother as an example, right? There are times that I have

a value of what I think I should do for my mother. And it may not be what I want to do in the moment, but it feels like a value. But then there are other times where I'm probably doing it because I'm afraid. And it does take a certain amount of, and what you said in the beginning, sort of slowing down and really going, what is driving my decision? And I love that you also sort of reference choice. Because a value I'm making a choice, almost a compulsion or a survival strategy, doesn't feel like a choice. I feel like I have to. Or I'm going to feel that awful feeling that I described that manifests itself in those voices. And the choice allows you to have more creative, flexible, intelligent solutions. Yeah. I have to please you, the metaphor that I like to use,

I don't have it on my desk with me, but I was teaching a workshop and I had a bandana for some reason. And I put it around my face like the old Westerns where someone would rob a bank, they'd tie the bandana around. Somehow that would obscure their identity enough, I guess. They would run in there and say, all right, there's a stick up. And they put the guns out and everyone puts their hands up. And then they take the money from the safe, right? And that's how it feels inside when we're operating with the nice pattern, which is your wife saying, this is what I need, or this is what I want. Or I'm not even saying that this is what I need. Someone indicating that they're upset, or you even imagining they might be upset,

is like the equivalent of two guns on you, stick them up, give me what I want. And we're like, okay, whatever you want, whatever you want. Now, in that case, when we're hostage, when our hands are up, we're not thinking creatively and intelligent. We're thinking, how do I freaking make this pain go away? How do I survive? Or thinking, I want to die, I want to die, I want to die. And so when we're actually coming from a value of kindness, you might say, hmm, what's behind that value, right?

It's something like you want to care for people. There's love there. So yeah, what feels right? And what feels right might not be comfortable. I feel like it feels right to go help my mom with this. Like, oh, I don't want to do this. This is hard. But we do that. Right. For loved ones, for maybe for strangers, depending on the situation. Right. But there's a creative flexibility where it's like, okay, I'm going to be here for this and this and that. But you know what? I'm also going to take some time for myself over here. I'm going to do this other thing. And it doesn't have this rigid fear. And so you're not being hostage. Other people's

feelings are not bank robbers holding guns at you. And that's the biggest insight to really set us free. Yeah, that's a great analogy. So yeah, I love all the things you said there. And then I think there's another element that factors into this for me, right? So I'm trying to determine between kind and nice. And then I'm also very much a practical person. So I'm trying to figure out utility. Like, is there a point in saying this? Is it going to change anything? Is it going to do any good?

And that's another place where I often think it's another place where rationalization can sneak in and again, get me to not violate the rule. And so how do you think about that? Because I do think there are times where I could say something, but why, you know, what's the point in me saying something? How does that factor into this framework? Yes. I think it's such a great question. framework? Yes. I think it's such a great question. And there's a spectrum. There is having so little self-awareness and filter and pause. This is what happens when we're triggered, we're in a fight, you know, they say something, we're like, right. And we know, but I should probably listen to that. No, I'm not going to say my thing. So that's one side of the spectrum. And the other side of the spectrum is like our most kind of awakened self.

That's like someone does something and someone's being a little annoying or unconscious and you just watch them and you're like, I don't need to do anything with that. Right. That's not mine. Right. And so we have that capacity in all of us. Yep. And I think the opposite of nice is not to just tell people whatever you think all the

time, shut up. The opposite is truth, is authenticity. It's what is real. And so if it's real that in this moment, I'm in a spacious state of awareness and their annoying habit or whatever, I'm not triggered, I let it go, then I don't say anything because why? But what often happens when I was in my twenties and I was at peak niceness, I gravitated towards spiritual teachings and Eckhart Tolle, like nobody's business, like a moth to the flame, right?

Because I was like, oh, you mean I never have to have conflict ever again because I'm so awakened? And it's funny because now I listen back to his stuff, you know, 20 years later and I'm like, oh, this is really useful. Like there's a lot of brilliant liberation in this. But when I was younger, it was a lot of like, I'm going to use this stuff to carry on my avoidance really, ultimately. And so it didn't really do much for me. It just made me kind of deeper in the hole. So the point is really observing what's happening between you and the other person. Let's say I'm with my wife and there's something that's happening and it's bothering me and it's bothering me. I tell

myself, hey, this shouldn't bother me. You know, just let it go. Okay. Did that work? Honestly? No. Okay. Let me focus on my breathing. Okay. Did that work? No. Okay. And now she's with me and she's going to feel a little disturbance in the field. Whether I say anything or not, she's going to feel my energy is tightening, I'm irritated or something. And so the point is to first and foremost, know and be known, to actually have true intimacy. Now this might not be true in every single relationship.

You got a boss at work who's going off the handle and it's like, I need to be known by my boss. Well, let's start be known by my boss. Like, well, let's start with our close relationships first, right? Because what happens, otherwise, if not, then we're playing the role. I'm going to play the role of the good husband, or the good son, or the good wife, or the good daughter, and the good daughter has no upsets. And it's not real, and when we're trying to play that role and it's not real, there's going to be a consequence. And the consequence is going to be both internal,

our physiology is going to start to experience dysfunction. That's why there's so much short-term problems, IBS, intestinal problems, physical pain, muscular tension, migraine headaches, all kinds of short-term problems with too much of this niceness, this separation from truth and ourselves, or it can even long-term lead in, there's interesting longitudinal studies over 12 or 20 years where it can lead into actually much more severe health conditions because we've done that for so long. And so the point is for the health in your body, but it's also, it's health and relationship. I was just speaking with a man the other day who, he does that. He's, wow, why,

what's the point? If I let it go or it won't bother me by tomorrow. But what happens is there is a, there's a distance that's created. Because what are you doing during that time where you're trying to get over it? You're blocking, David Schnarch, I believe his name is, he's a couples therapist, he calls it blocking of mind mapping. So what happens is when you're with your partner or someone close to you and you don't wanna reveal truth,

they say, how are you? And you're like, I'm good, that's fine, yeah. They feel something and they feel that you're hiding something and then, but then you're trying to show you're not, no, I'm not hiding anything. Are you okay? No, I'm fine. I'm fine. And that could be about between you and them, like there's a conflict or even just like you looked in the mirror earlier that morning and

you're like, oh, I'm an ugly old loser, right? And then you go out to the kitchen and your energy is kind of, and you don't want to tell them that because that makes you seem insecure and superficial or whatever. So they're like, how are you doing? You're like, I'm still good. I'm still good. And they're like, you sure? You're okay. Yeah, yeah. Fine. Fine. And you're blocking the mind mapping. So there's a vulnerability in letting yourself be seen, whether it's your insecurity or the nice person will be like, okay, maybe I'll reveal my insecurity. Yep. But reveal like, I don't know, my pettiness. I want control in a situation that I know I don't need it, but I want it.

So I'm gonna be upset about this thing. Like any of that, we're like, oh no, I don't wanna be seen that way because I'm gonna play this role of husband or son or daughter in the right way because then I'll be safe and loved. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast,

our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts?

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And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to go back to the spiritual aspect of that, because I think that's an important point. And I suffer from the same thing, right? suffer from the same thing, right? Which is that I do believe these liberation ideas and teachings that say there's a way in which the things out there in the world don't have to affect you, that there's a greater freedom available, right? And so I believe that and I've experienced that. And to your point, it also puts me into a little bit of a role to play, to be the right spiritual person. Particularly, I'm sure you deal with this too, but when you

get into a world where you're helping or guiding other people, that's like another layer of straight jacket to put on because you want to look to be a certain way. It's one that I fight against all the time. It's why on the show, I'm always trying of be like, well, let me unveil the parts of me that aren't working great, right? So that spiritual thing is a real element, right? Because in Buddhism, right, we're taught, you know, right speech, you know, is it kind? Is it useful? Is it all these different things? And so there's just all these layers that get sort of tacked on of trying to determine why am I saying something or not saying something. But what you've said there at the end about the hiding yourself, that's the realization I've had over the last maybe six months, which is that in an attempt to have there

be no conflict or even no disagreement in a relationship, it makes it very sterile. It does block connection. It blocks conflict, but it also blocks connection. And I've seen that far more clearly. The other insight that I had a number of years ago that helped me in this area was I thought about like, well, I'm trying to maintain the peace. I'm a number nine Enneagram, the peacemaker, right? And so that's a role I like to play. And I think I do it well, but I sometimes am doing it in ways that aren't useful. And I had a realization a few years ago that I may be keeping the peace externally, but I'm taking all of that churn and all that potential problem out there and shoving it inside of me. And so I'm not keeping the peace inside me. I'm keeping it outside. And that for me was another

level of sort of starting to wake up to like, there's a real cost to this. And I can just say in my case, like it's so many years of this sort of habitual response that I have to be very conscious when I'm in these situations to make the choice to be more open, direct, and honest. Yes. I love that you're highlighting that. It is a retraining. The metaphor I've used a lot recently, which I really like, is it's software that we're running because it helps us distinguish what's me, you know, and there's layers of me, you know, as you're talking about in the spiritual traditions of point to it, there is a layer that's like the all and then, and the know me. But then there's also another layer of a personal layer. That's your most free, authentic in live. You're doing stuff in the world. You do have a personality. You do like these shows and

not that, and you hate broccoli or whatever and you know and that's beautiful and then though on top of that we'll run these think of them like apps on your phone and one app is the make sure no one's upset at me app and that thing can be running and we're running and that thing is you know when you download an app on your phone and then you close it out i'll say would you like to keep this app running in the background and we're, yeah, I would like to put that running in the background. Let's have that one. And for me, one of the ones that I noticed is the one that runs in the background a lot is a form of worry. And it's this generic, free-floating, there's something to worry about here. And so I've been really, also recently, I'd's in the last um couple of months

getting a sense of okay there's another level here of freedom what am i doing and so i've been studying it a lot more and i've been fascinated at it's like it seems like i need to worry about the thing like no this thing really is a thing problem to solve and so i'll kind of run it through a little algorithm i'll'll say, is this a problem to solve? In which case we can have some time to think about it with a pen and paper and really put some focus. Is that what we're doing right now? It's like, no,

we're just kind of like picking at a scab. I'm like, okay, so let's put it down. And then I'll pause and I'll feel like, oh, and then three seconds later, 10 seconds later,

it's like, what about this other thing over here? Yes. And I'm like, wow. Yeah. And it's been really amazing because with that awareness though, you can have a lot more peace, but it does take that. And sometimes people say, well, I thought you said it was a software. Can't I just put a new software in? It's like, yeah, but you actually, you can

download a new app, but in order, it's not like your phone where you just press a button and it's installed for you right i think you actually have to install it yourself and the way that you do that is real time present moment with the one you feed right like and the more awareness you have of the old pattern you can recode it that's right and this is where i'll have a people that i work with create what's called a bill of rights, where it's, I have a right to say no. And so they noticed themselves worried about, oh man, someone's going to ask that of me. And then they're anxious and they say, wait a minute. Like, it's okay for me to say no.

I have a right to say no. And the moment you do that, you're writing a new line of code. Now you might need to keep doing that repeatedly, but eventually, all of a sudden, you start to run that new one, and then you're in situations where you feel relaxed because you're not hostage. You can say yes or you can say no, but the installing takes practice over time, is what I've seen. Yeah, it absolutely does. It's an idea that I teach in my spiritual habits program. Little by little, little becomes a lot, right? Like it's just moment after moment of recognizing, oh, there's that old pattern again. Okay. What do I want to do instead? But that happens, you know, my experience countless times, but the change does occur. The good news is that you can really change these things. The bad news is it tends to take a

while. It tends to take a while to unravel deep-seated mental patterns. The other thing you said in there that I love, it's about that sort of picking up a worry. A very early guest on the show, and this is nine years ago, probably, 600 episodes ago or so, and I still remember it clearly. And she described our minds as a problem factory. And I thought, what a great analogy, because what happens in a factory? The minute one comes off the assembly line, there's another one coming right through. And that's the way my brain works with problems. I will either solve or set one aside and it is immediately replaced with another. You got some bandwidth. You want another one? Exactly. They just keep coming. If you like, again, if I'm not sort of trying to really look at what is my brain doing yeah you

know and my brain left to its own device is always puzzling something out scheming has a negative implication to it but it's kind of what it's doing you know it's always just left to its own devices it's just trying to always adjust the future or the present moment in some way always yeah yeah and that's not the most peaceful way to live yeah yeah i see it as focused on safety right how do i protect myself and that's not just the safety of my physical body but safety of all my things my possessions my whatever i've created and accomplished yeah and then if that is okay, then it's, I see it sort of, it's very much like the drive for empire in nations and civilizations where it's like, okay, do we have safety on our borders? Yeah. Okay. What are we going to do? Let's expand. And then, so if it's not scheming about my safety, then it's going to

scheme about, okay, great, but that's all going well. So how do we make this thing? And how do we get that thing? Yep. And I don't think that's bad. I don't think thinking is bad. I think, because there can also be a flow of creativity. Yes. That is like, whoa, this is a fire hose, whether it's for a book or a video or a teaching or a course or what you want to share with a friend

or a poem, right? It's like, whoa. And so I think the key, and this is a metaphor I like to use a lot, is a little remote control. And it's knowing what channel am I on and do I want to be on that channel right now? And, you know, this thing's only got five little buttons on it, but, you know, and you know this thing's only got five little buttons on it but you know channel five might be right now i can hear the sound of the rain it might be that my uh my senses my hearing smelling something feeling the air that's one channel then you know channel four might be something i'm engaged in doing i'm opening this thing up but just before this call i was getting firewood for our wood stoves and stuff like that. And then, you know, one of those channels might be your

thinking. And sometimes we could just be like, oh, is this the time to be on that channel? Yeah. And then, you know, we can get more granular, but what type of thinking am I doing? Yep. And there's sort of channels within that, you know, channel one is like, worry, problems, safety. And then channel two is like inspirational ideas. And I think that the thing that we don't realize is that we actually have the remote. But it takes practice.

I think one of the big things is the channel one, the dominance, it's so practiced. And it will use, just like media does now, it will use fear to make you have to watch it. You have to watch. You know, you're like, oh, I'm not gonna look at the news today or whatever. And it's like, there is a danger coming. And you're like, well, what kind of danger is it going to get me? And that's what your mind will do. The problem factory is like, hey, if you don't solve the next problem, something bad is going to happen to you. The problem factory is like, hey, if you don't solve the next problem, something bad is going to happen to you. And this is nowhere more common than in, and I know this, the kind of very nice person,

because there are a thousand and one threats. There are as many threats as people that you know. Heck, there's threats about people you don't know. Because if anyone ever being upset with you is a problem, is a big danger, then your mind's going on overdrive. You got to be guarding the border a thousand percent of the time. Yeah. I love the remote control analogy, a question I often pose to clients and that to really live into is just as often as you can ask it, like, what am I doing right now? And is it

what I want to be doing? And by that, I don't just mean physically doing like, oh, I'm typing on my computer, although sometimes it means that, you know, oh, I'm playing solitaire. And what I want to be doing is working on the book, right? There's that. But there's also just the mental side. And I love the remote control and TV analogy, because the first step is almost to wake up out of the fact that you're watching that channel, right? And what happens when we watch TV, particularly in a passive way, is we are just completely in it. There's no awareness that like, I am watching TV and I am choosing this. So step one is always like, what's going on? Yes. Yeah. You know, what's going on in my mind, in my heart? What is happening? And then is it what I want to be happening, right? Is this the pattern I want to strengthen? I talked yesterday with, he used to be my Zen teacher for a number of years. And when I read him the wolf parable, he brought up karma, right? And

the definition of karma I like the most is just the idea that whatever I'm doing right now makes it more likely I'm going to do that thing in the future. Right? It's that simple. Like if I am thinking, like if, you know, you use the example of rain before we started, right? If I am thinking, God, it's raining again, that sucks, that sucks, that sucks. It's more likely that next time it rains, I'm going to say, God, it's rain again. It sucks, it sucks, it sucks, right? Karma just is our behaviors and our thoughts are seeding the future, you know? And so I think this idea of just being aware of it is so important. And you said something else in there that I wanted to reference that we've sort of talked a little bit about. And when you're talking

about kindness versus niceness, you say that kindness leaves a glow of joy in the giver. Niceness leaves a residue of resentment. And I think that's another really useful framework. Yeah. So listener, consider this your halfway through the episode integration reminder. Remember, knowledge is power, but only if combined with action and integration. It can be transformative to take a minute to synthesize information rather than just ingesting it in a detached way. So let's collectively take a moment to pause and reflect. What's your one big insight so far and how can you put it into practice in your life? Seriously, just take a second, pause the audio and reflect.

It can be so powerful to have these reminders to stop and be present, can't it? If you want to keep this momentum going that you built with this little exercise, I'd encourage you to get on our Good Wolf Reminders SMS list. I'll shoot you two texts a week with insightful little prompts and wisdom from podcast guests. They're a nice little nudge to stop and be present in your life. And they're a helpful way to not get lost in the busyness and forget what is important. You can join at oneyoufeed.net slash SMS. And if you don't like them, you can get off the list really easily.

So far, there are over 1,172 others from the One You Feed community on the list, and we'd love to welcome you as well. So head on over to oneyoufeed.net slash SMS, and let's feed our good wolves together. It's a have to. Yeah. And niceness, we have to do it. And anything in life that we are of the perception that we have to do it, we're going to probably have some, some reaction to that. And it might be that we truly do want to do it also. And so there's some alignment and we're like, I have to do it. And then it feels okay. But we realize that we don't have to, we're choosing to, right?

Yeah, that's where the freedom is, is the choice. And you might say, no, no, I have to, I have to. Well, there are things in life that you feel maybe are non-negotiable or very important. But just remember that that is truly based upon the choices that you're making. So I'm going to say, I have to, we're talking about family and parents, like I have to go help my dad right now. You know, he's sick. I have to. I could tell you, I've talked to people, talked to clients, their parent gets sick and they ghost. Yeah. I've talked to people that have done that, who their parents now dead, and they have all kinds of feelings

about that particular aspect of it, right? So it might feel like you have to, but that's because there's something binding you to that. And the key is you might still ultimately feel like that's the value you have. That's the right thing to do. But then the invitation is to take total ownership of your life and say, yeah, I am going to choose that. It's the hard path. It's the road less traveled. It's the uphill path for me. And I'm choosing that because I love my parent or because, you know, honestly, some people, it's like, I don't love them. I don't even like them. It's like, yeah, but you know what? I acknowledge

the bond and what they've contributed to me in my life. And honestly, I wouldn't feel good about myself if I just left. I feel like it feels right. And you see that language is very different than I have to. And many of us will take not even these big dilemmas in life. We're just talking about, I have to get this thing done. I have to get to this thing on time. I have to get my workout in. And now our day is a stressistant fest. And it's really a painful way to live. And nowhere is this more common, again, than in the roles and all the rules we have as a nice person. So this is one of the things I do with clients is, okay, let's pick a role in your life. You know, you're a boyfriend or you're an employee. Pick one of those that you're feeling all,

a lot of mixed feelings about or frustration or suffering or anxiety. I want you to write out the top 10 rules of that. How are you supposed to show up? How do you need to be as an employee or as a boyfriend? And every time I've done this with a person, if there's disturbance in them, there's frustration in them, at least half of those rules are so extreme, confining, restrictive, you know, never, always, I should never be upset. You know, I know this one with relationships. For me, I had so much social anxiety when I was younger that I couldn't even date. And then I started to overcome that. I started to approach friends, dating, relationships, women, and I actually

learned how to be pretty confident, pretty charming, I'd say, in those very initial interactions. But then the second after date two, we were starting to become, even if it's not officially titled boyfriend, but there's some, something starting to form there. Maybe all of a sudden, boom, I'm in a role. They didn't put me in there. We didn't have a discussion about, are we going to be monogamous? It was just like, I'm in the role because now she likes me. So now I have to go into that role. And now I'm basically her boyfriend, whether I agree to it or not. And now the boyfriend, even just thinking of that role, my energy system is like, and I'm getting ahead of myself here, but we could talk about how you know this stuff and discern. There is a very direct signal to your energy.

And if you get more attuned to it, when you start to try to push yourself into these roles that are not you, it really will be a visceral sense for me. I'll often say like, ugh, makes me wanna barf. Like I'll feel this, ugh. And that's now when I think about that old role of boyfriend, it makes me, ugh, wanna barf

because it's so not me. But some of those rules were, I have to do everything to make sure she never feels upset. She can never feel sad or disappointed. And then this one, this is a doozy. She has to feel not just not upset, but like the most revered, loved, special being in the universe. Now, this is like a 22-year-old dude trying to live by these rules. And sure enough, you know, I'd start to get close to someone and within a couple of weeks with these rules, I wanted to get the F out of there. I wanted to explode. It's like, why? And it tripped me out because I was

like, wait a minute, I really like this woman. I was, she's beautiful. She's funny. She's interesting. She's smart. We have all this connection. And then all of a sudden, two weeks later, I can't get far enough from her. And it wasn't her. It wasn't me. It was this pattern and the role that I had to be as a boyfriend and all those rules. And so I think that's a key thing that we want to uncover in any place we're having that disturbance. Yeah, and I think you described your reaction to playing into those roles. And then there's the other person's reaction of playing into those roles, right? Like someone might feel entirely smothered by you if that's your role.

Your role is like, I have to make sure you are always happy and that you think you're the most beautiful person. Then all I'm going to do is just lavish you with things, right? Well, basically I have to control you. I have to control your emotional state. And that is a really big point, right? Because I do think in the niceness paradigm, that's what's happening. And what I have realized is that when I am in that, I have to control your emotional state. What I am saying in effect is you are not capable of handling your own emotions. So I am this much better, wiser, evolved, stronger than you. And so I had better protect you from feeling bad because you won't know how to handle it. Now I know where I got some of that because there have been people in my life who

don't generally know how to handle their emotions and anything that you do that sort of upsets them. It just gets blown way, way out of proportion. I understand where I get that from, but it's not a good way to react to the vast majority of humans. It's manipulative. Yeah. Yeah. There's kind of the big reveal at the end of the TV show or the movie where someone was something else all along. Here's the big reveal around that. It's like, I got to make sure that you feel okay. I'm this noble person. You can't handle, people will say this. I'm afraid to break up with somebody. Why? Well, it's just going to crush them. They can't handle the grief or whatever. And the big reveal at the end of the movie is you can't handle their feelings. And that's actually not even true either. You can, It feels like you can't handle it

because when they start to experience, their emotion starts to go up, go up, go up. I wanna die, I wanna die. Yeah. Starts to happen. And that's the core of everyone that I'm working with to help them is to get to that place where they can be with someone else having feelings

and retrain their whole nervous system, that this is not a level five explosion threat. This is someone's having feelings. And this has been so good for me. I mean, I've been teaching this stuff, but also just training and learning myself. And when I had young kids, we were talking about this before, my kids are eight and 10 now. And when they were young and even still at times now, they're upset about something. They want something from dad and they're having feelings. And I'll remind myself, this is just a little boy having feelings. Especially when they were younger, it would be like a full scale alarm in me. And so either it would be this, I have to fix it,

I have to fix it. Or I realize that I do need to say no here, or I have to go to this thing, or I'm choosing to go to this thing, and so they're going to be disappointed. But then I would leave, and I would just, the guilt, oh, it's like a 700-pound backpack, oh, the guilt. That's another pattern that we do, is we use all this self-attacking guilt, and that has nothing to do with being a good person. What that is, is you'd rather feel that awful feeling because it's familiar and sort of under control than go to that being with someone else having feelings. And it seems crazy, but people will choose self-attack all day long over more raw feelings, which is loved ones in my life are going to feel painful feelings, sometimes related to me, about me, sometimes related to

something else in their life. And I might be able to love them. I might be able to say something to them. I might be able to listen to them. And even still, I don't control their feelings. And here's the thing. I don't know if there's a one-to-one correlation, but it's really high in my observation of people that very nice people are also very highly empathic people. They're highly sensitive people. And so when someone is feeling something, they're not just like, oh, they're feeling that. It's like, you know, their nervous system. I used to hate this in myself, like how sensitive I was and how much I'd feel so much of other people's stuff.

And it's only in maybe the last five years or so that I realized actually that's my superpower. Yeah. And that's what allows me to connect and help people and have such great relationships too. So we don't wanna turn that off, but we need to learn how to be more at peace with you having feelings,

even if those feelings are about me. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer.

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Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, No Really, sir. God bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening?

Really No Really. Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the I heart radio app on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You just described a lot of things there. I think I am a very empathetic person. It may be one of my

defining characteristics and like many things that are greatest strength, they can also be one of our greatest weaknesses. Yeah. Even when you were sort of talking about that, the great reveal is that I can't handle your bad feelings. There's a part of me that goes, well, that's part of it, but it's also because I genuinely care about you and feel your feelings and don't want you to hurt. And again, it's this blended soup that I get into, right? Where I'm realizing like, it is unavoidably true that I cannot handle your bad feelings. Or let me say that again. I absolutely can handle your bad feelings. I don't like it. It is a state I will avoid, you know, if I'm not conscious of it. That is unavoidably true. And there is also a genuine,

I believe, and I've done a lot of self-searching, a genuine desire that since I care about you, that you not hurt. And so, again, it's back to what we've talked about before. It's the discernment of tweezing these different things apart to say, when am I acting out of a value and caring and the best side of me? And the best side of me, and when am I acting out of this compulsion or this deep fear or anxiety around there being any negative emotion, right? Because if there's a negative emotion in the room, I will know it. I mean, you can put 10 people in a room. Yeah. Right?

And there's a negative emotion in the room. I will pretty much figure it out and know it's there. Yeah. And then if I'm not careful, I will immediately go into how do I get that bad feeling out of the room? I love this topic. That's another channel. It's just like there's a stream of auditory information coming to you right now. There's a stream of visual if you're watching this. There is also a stream of information coming to you about emotion and energy. Just like people can hear better.

Some people have really sensitive, I actually have pretty sensitive hearing where loud noises, like I wear earmuffs when we run our blender because otherwise I'm like, ah. So you will perceive, so you go into that room and you will feel it and you might know who it is, you might not, you might get all kinds of information from that and that's a superpower. If the freedom comes in being able to allow that information to come and not have to do something to fix it and that's like a form,

I think this is fascinating, I think it's like a form of discomfort tolerance. I'm a big fan of cold immersion and cold plunges. And I see it as a similar thing. So when I do a cold plunge, my goal is not just an amount of time or an amount of degrees. I could stay in there long or short, cold or what doesn't matter. My goal when I get in there is how much can I actually relax my body? Because otherwise it's like cold, shivering. It's like, and it's the same thing.

You get that data stream of information. Someone's upset. Because how do you know if it's kind versus that kind of compulsion? Yes. I'd say that there's one simple question to ask yourself, which is, truly, in my nervous system, in my mind, in my heart, how okay is it that someone is hurting or having feelings? And if it's okay, that doesn't mean that we're like, oh, it's okay, I'm going to grab a sandwich, see you later, Right? You know, if it's okay, you're probably even more skillful at being with them. And when it's not okay,

it's not okay. Then our attempts to console and help have a hidden hook in them. Yep. And our patience is short because it's kind of like, hey, look, I'm burning up here. I'm dying. This is burning my skin, my acids, my face. Are you feeling better yet? And I'll see this with my kids, and I know which state I'm in. So what about my younger son? He'll react to things and make loud sounds. And sometimes I'm like, inside, I'm like, this is so dramatic. And I know what's needed when he's in that state. And it's moving towards him with this kind of over the top sweetness and just, you know, he likes to be called a puppy, thinks of himself as a puppy.

So it's like, oh, puppy, you know? And he's like, nah. And it's like, oh, puppy. And you got to be a little skillful because sometimes if you come in too much, he's like, get away from me. And so when I've had times where I'm not okay with the feelings and he's like, get away from me. Then I'm like, all right, fine. Just let him have his feelings. Give him space. That's what he says he wants. Do you hear the little edge in my voice? It's a little bit.

And I'm not yelling at him, but I'm also like, fine. But just last night he was doing it. He was upset. He thought he was going to get some computer time and he wasn't. And then it was too late. So he's screaming and crying on the couch. And I just moved towards him and he's like, get away from me. And I'm like, oh, you want me to get away? Last time you were like this, when you calmed down, you said you wanted a hug. Can I just sit next to you? Because in that moment, I didn't need him to not cry. I didn't need him to not be upset. And then I just kind of pour this like, he's like, mom said I was going to be able to use the computer. I was like, you thought you were going to be able to use the computer. Yeah, she said I did. She said you were, and then you weren't.

Yeah. And it was just this, really? I'm okay. Now, honestly, in that situation, I guess if sometimes if I'm stressed, I have a hard time doing it, that one's not so hard. But what if it's your client or you're a colleague or a friend or your partner who's saying, I'm upset because you said you're going to do this thing and you didn't do the thing and I'm disappointed. How often then inside we're like, I have to fix your feelings. But true freedom and not niceness, which is authenticity, is really letting there be spaciousness. That's not in here. That's out there. They're there. They're having this experience. And how do we really get to that freedom? It's exactly what I just did there. It's the training in the cold

plunge. And the way that we do the training is not in the moment when someone's yelling at you. I mean, that's like game time, Super Bowl, right? The freedom is when you're alone and you notice that pattern where you think of someone being upset with you and you're like, that's the time to practice. Yeah. That's the time to let go because then you get more and more training for when it's really happening in real time. Yeah. As usual, there's about 15 different things I could take from what you said. I've been having some conversations with people who are in the caring fields, you know, caretakers of all different types. And I'm going to include nurses and doctors and social workers

and all those people in there. Right. And I've been having conversations with people who work with those people, train those people. Right. And what everybody's looking at is what's burnout look like in those roles? You know, why? Well, I mean, I think it's fairly obvious, right? It's very difficult, but there is a training that is happening amongst a number of people and it's sort of learning to switch from empathy to compassion. And they sound like they're the same thing, but they're not. Empathy is I'm feeling your feelings, which again, I think is a useful, I mean, I think it's a useful starting place because most people who go into a caring profession are doing it because they care

about other people's feelings. And so that's a useful skill, but if it's the only one you have, then those roles become overwhelming. Yes. Yeah. But you can remain compassionate, right? Which is where I'm not taking on your feelings. I care about how you feel. Yeah. I care about you. I want to do the best I can by you, but I'm not feeling everything you're feeling because that's untenable in those roles. Yes. I think there's a couple misconceptions in our culture that people do because they think it's right. One example is worrying about somebody is a sign of love. And another one is feeling your pain means I care about you. And I think both of those are problematic because they're not, right? It's not the same thing. They lead to burnout. So we have two aging parents and my brother is the one who lives in the same city as them. So he's involved in more of the day-to-day

support and I'm more involved in kind of helping managing from afar and working with the finances and stuff. But he'll often tell me like, I'm really worried about, you know, mom. And I will tell me what's, you know, when I hear that, I'm like, oh, does something happen? You know, is this you fall? And it's like, well, no, it's something in the future that might happen. You know, and I'm not saying, you know, yes, there's, we want to look at what could happen in the future and have plans for different levels of care and all that. I think that's great. But it's not that. It's like a, this could happen. I'm worried about it. I'm worried about it. And it's over time, I realized he loves her. And worrying is like a way of, it's not just for

others, for himself to feel like he's really loving her. And if he's not worrying, he's not loving her. And I'm like, whoa. And it's the same thing with people burning out in health professions. It's like, well, if I'm not feeling everything and they might want you to, that person might even say, if you really loved me, you'd worry about me.

If you really cared about me, you'd be dying right now. And that's where we need to, I call this in the books I teach about niceness is living in your reality. I understand in your reality that love is worry, but not in my reality. You might not literally say that to somebody, but this is for you to know inside your head. In my reality, it looks very different. to prevent burnout. My wife's father is having a health issue, probably will pull through, maybe not, but also has a lot of suffering right now.

He has a stint in his throat, his esophagus, so he can breathe better and hurts to do all this. So he's in a tough way. And then she's feeling so much. She's feeling all that pain. And then another part of her gets upset, which is kind of like, hey, he lived his life, like, you know, smoking and doing all these behaviors that's, you know, and now I'm feeling all this.

And here's a phrase that I use to help myself have compassion and not burn out with working with people is, I'm here and I love you and your pain is yours to learn from and work with and shape you. I'm going to have my own pains. No one gets out of this life without pains. Mine might be different than yours, but ultimately they're all probably fundamentally the same. And so the fear that you feel when you're having the pain, I can hold your hand and I can talk to you sometimes if I'm there, but that's your darkness to face, to find courage in. That physical pain that's like, oh, every time I do this,

it freaking hurts. That's your teacher. You might not think it is, but it is your teacher to grow you. I lived with a lot of chronic pain when I was younger that actually really shaped me. So being alone in the darkness of night with like pain that I cannot turn off that feels overwhelming is something that I have a lot of hours and training in. And so I know, you know, when I have health issues or something comes up for me, that's going to be mine to work with. Doesn't mean I'm alone. I might have someone to hold my hand, but I learned when I was young that someone could be with you and hold your hand, but then they got to go to sleep. Yeah. But I didn't know when I was younger with a lot of chronic pain that I do know now is that it isn't just me working with the pain.

It's like, I am always held. And there's a bigger force that I can be with always. I didn't know that when I was younger. But that's for someone else to discover too. Cause you might try to tell them that and they may, what are you talking about? Telling me about religion and God, get out of here. Right, you know?

And so just really, I think this is helpful for anyone listening who has that burnout, you know, I'm gonna take everything on is just remembering that's theirs to deal with, and I have my own to deal with, and I can be with you now, but I can't carry you. So listener, in thinking about all that and the other great wisdom from today's episode, if you were going to isolate just one top insight that you're taking away, what would it be? Not your top 10, not the top five, just one. What is it? Think about it. Got it? Now I ask you, what's one tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny little thing you can do today to put it in practice? Or maybe

just take a baby step towards it. Remember, little by little, a little becomes a lot. Profound change happens as a result of aggregated tiny actions, not massive heroic effort. If you're not already on our Good Wolf Reminder SMS list, I'd highly recommend it as a tool you can leverage to remind you to take those vital baby steps forward. You can get on there at oneufeed.net slash SMS. It's totally free, and once you're on there, I'll send you a couple text messages a week with little reminders and nudges here's one i recently shared to give you an idea of the type of stuff i send keep practicing even if it seems hopeless don't strive for perfection aim for consistency and no

matter what keep showing up for yourself that was a great gem from recent guest light watkins and if you're on the fence about joining remember it's totally free and easy to unsubscribe. If you want to get in, I'd love to have you there. Just go to oneufeed.net slash SMS. All right, back to it. We're near the end here. So I thought I would finish with a rule of thumb that you give and I'll read it and then you can expound upon it for a moment and then we'll kind of wrap up. You say, here's a little rule of thumb to act by if you're unsure, right? And the unsure

is kind of everything we've been talking about, right? Am I being kind? Am I being nice? Am I doing this out of compulsion? Am I doing this because I choose it, right? All these different things. If someone is hurt by something you said or did, ask yourself, did I communicate what was true for me? Did I do so with respect? If so, then it's on the other person to manage their own emotions. I agree with what I wrote. I approve. Yes. Yes. Because we have this instant mechanism. It's like a pairing. It's a false pairing. You know, these correlations. If it's sunny outside, then I'm going to make more money today or something like that. It's like, you know, I don't think those are related. But we link these things all the time. And we can link someone being upset with, I'm bad.

Yeah, I have that linkage. And it's linked. No space, there's no question. It's just bam, it's a conditioned response. Yep. And that's where we need to decondition that and program something new and new software. And then sometimes people are saying someone's hurting and upset because you did something. You can't just take no response. I mean, that's the problem. That's the problem with this world is these people are so narcissistic and this, and they don't care about others. And then they flip to the other extreme, which is a whole rabbit hole. We're

not going to go down, which is the straw man argument that a nice person who's afraid of changing that pattern because it's survival says, oh, so you're saying the only other option is to be some jerk, you know, it hurts other people. What? Why do we have to go to the other extreme? So, but in the middle, there's those two questions, which is, did I say what was,

what seemed true to me in the moment? And there's a whole nother chapter actually in Less Nice, More You about three levels of skillful communication because there's a way to say it more or less skillfully. I said what was true. Well, you know what was true for me? I think you're a selfish asshole. That's what I think is true. Yeah. You know, and it's like, okay, yeah, I mean, I guess you did speak what felt true to you, but let's just say that was less skillful. Right. What might be more skillful is I'm feeling angry right now.

And I'm feeling angry and I'm focusing on how you chose to do X instead of Y. And in my mind, I'm imagining that means you don't really value me as much. And I'm angry about that. You know, that's a whole nother level. But let's say you're working at, you know, communicating more skillfully. And you did say to the best of your ability, what was true without blaming everybody and just owning your stuff. And the respectful part is the more skillful part. And if I did it that way, then it's on them. And I've seen this with people in close relationships. Like, I don't want to say what I really think and feel because

it's going to hurt my partner's feelings. It's like, but it's what you really want or like or don't like or what's real. So what do you do? Do you stuff that? Do you hide it from them? Do you resent them for it? Or do you take the risk to be real? But what if they get upset? What if I lose them? Well, are you losing anything real then?

If you're just hiding and playing a role or is it a fantasy bond? And so I encourage people to really ask those questions. And that truly is a choice. It's a new line in the code that you can choose to say, okay, I'm stressing about what I said and I shouldn't have done that. It's like, wait a minute, wait a minute. That's the old code. The new code is, did I communicate what was true in the moment? Yes. Did I do it as respectfully as I could? Yes. What was true in the moment? Yes. Did I do it as respectfully as I could?

Yes. Okay. And then you change the channel. You focus on your food. You focus on the sound of the air. You focus on the next thing you're doing. And it'll come back a second later. No, that's just like if you had, it's like OCD at that point, right?

It's like, did I leave the stove on? Look, I've already checked the stove. When that thought comes back, we don't need to fight it. We don't need to turn it off. We don't need to freak out about the thought. We just say, oh, a cloud thought. And that's what we start to do. Because at that point, these are kind of obsessive thought patterns that we want to just let flow by. Yep. Well, that is a perfect place to wrap up. There are so many more things we could talk about in the book that I thought were excellent. There's the three level of communication you talked about. talk about in the book that I thought were excellent. There's three level of communication you talked about. There is understanding there's gradations between sort of passive, assertive,

and aggressive. I found that chapter incredibly helpful. There's expectations versus agreements. There's a lot in there. You and I are going to continue and talk about a couple of these things in the post-show conversation. Listeners, if you would like to support what we're doing here, and we are a small organization that does always need support, and if you'd like access to bonus content like the conversation Aziz and I are about to have, ad-free episodes, a special episode I do called A Teaching Song and a Poem, and community meetings with other OneYouFeed listeners, we'd love to have you join our community, and you can do so at OneYouFeed.net slash join. community and you can do so at one you feed.net slash join Aziz. Thanks again so much. Like I said, every time I talk to you, I find it extremely gratifying. So thank you so much for coming back on. Absolutely. I love how much you brought yourself into this interview and made it so rich and real. And I love how you teach through that authenticity. It's really beautiful. Thank you. If what you just heard was helpful to you, please consider making a monthly donation to support the

One You Feed podcast. When you join our membership community with this monthly pledge, you get lots of exclusive members-only benefits. It's our way of saying thank you for your support. Now, we are so grateful for the members of our community. We wouldn't be able to do what we do without their support, and we don't take a single dollar for granted. To learn more, make a donation at any level, and become a member of the One You Feed community, go to oneyoufeed.net slash join. The One You Feed podcast would like to sincerely thank our sponsors for supporting the show. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor what's in the museum of failure and does

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