The One You Feed - What If and Why Not? A Mantra for Living with Curiosity and Courage with Bobbi Brown

Starting point is 00:00:00 You know, I'm really naive, and it's actually a quality that I don't know how to teach people to be, and I'm proud of that. Because being naive, it's like, I don't think things aren't going to work out, but if they don't work out, I don't feel bad because I'm like, all right, that just didn't work. Let me do something different. Let me try it differently. But if you don't try, you don't know. Welcome to the one you feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true. And yet, for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity,

Starting point is 00:00:47 self-pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions, matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Some people chase the spotlight. Others carry a quiet light wherever they go. Bobby Brown, the renowned makeup artist and entrepreneur, build an empire by choosing decency over drama and normality over fabulosity. And it turns out that's not just branding. It's a way of moving through the world. Today we talk about the power of kindness, the myth of always on authenticity,

Starting point is 00:01:41 and how the outside, our clothes, our lighting, a touch of makeup, can support the inside without replacing it. We also get into food, bio-individuality, and why there's no single right plan for everyone and woven through it all is bobby's deceptively simple mantra ask what if and why not i'm eric zimmer and this is the one you feed hi bobby welcome to the show hi eric nice to meet you it's nice to meet you i appreciate you coming on we're going to be discussing your i guess do we call it a memoir still bobby about your life and uh your your business and all the lessons that you've learned from that so i'm excited to get into that, but we'll start like we always do with the parable. In the parable, there's a grandparent who's talking with their grandchild, and they say, in life, there are two

Starting point is 00:02:32 wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops, think about it for a second, they look up at their grandparent, and they say, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. Well, it's not negotiable. Being kind is everything. And I think that even after all of my years of hard work and, you know, what I view as success, kindness to me is probably the number one thing. That makes me think of a later chapter in your book, which is called Be Normal,

Starting point is 00:03:17 where you talk about, you've met lots of famous people from all sorts of actors, actresses, makeup models, musicians, the Obamas, all these people. And you talk about how some of those people maintain a certain degree of normalcy. And you say, to me, being normal has nothing to do with one status, income, or title. To me, being normal means treating people with decency and respect. It means valuing family and relationships over business and profit. A hundred percent. I mean, you know, I don't want to be a name dropper, but just a couple weeks ago, I was, you know, invited to a screening of a documentary about Paul McCartney and Paul was there. And honestly, before I left for the evening and thanked him, I just said to him, you are so normal. I mean, he's a beetle. But, you know, his kids, his family, his friends, and I could relate to that. You know, I've been around enough people that, you know, you would expect them to have attitudes. or just think they are better than anyone else. And I just, I really like people that are normal,

Starting point is 00:04:23 that are nice, that are caring, that are present. What do you think enables certain people to do that and others not? Do you think it's something in who they are? Is it something in the way they learn to relate to fame? Like, if you had to speculate, you know, why are some people able to do this? And we hear all the horror stories of poor celebrity behavior also. You know, I think from my experience,

Starting point is 00:04:46 a lot of people I met, you know, who are incredibly nice and, you know, beyond, beyond the top of their game, whether it's Yogi Berra or Gloria Steinem. You know, I'm mentioning some of the kindest people I've ever worked with. I think they just knew the difference of the person they were when they were at work or in front of a camera, in front of a crowd, on stage, and what the people in their life, when they go home, made them feel. You know, they're friends, it's their comfort zone. What is the difference? I think it probably has a lot to do with how we were brought up and also how we feel about ourselves. Yeah, I think that how we feel about ourselves is obviously a really big one. And you've always had, from reading your memoir, it's not that like I've known you for years, I don't know you, but from your memoir, it seems to me that you've always had a certain amount of confidence in who you are. It's not to say that you haven't had, you talk about in the book, struggles with body image or other things at points, but you've also seemed to have a certain, I am who I am, you know, Popeye type thing. Is that

Starting point is 00:05:56 true? You know what? It's not true because it's taking a long time to realize who I am is okay. No, I always thought I should be someone different, even in the middle of my success. I should dress a certain way that I thought I should dress like. I should act a certain way. way because that's how professionals act. So I didn't really figure out, you know, how to be the best version of myself. But that's, you know, kind of divided because when I'm either with my quote unquote my work posse that I could be myself, I was okay. But when I'd walk into situations where, you know, I was all of a sudden, you know, looked at differently, it was more like, all right, how should I be? You know, I keep thinking of Melody Griffith and Working Girl, you know, with her, like, with her shoulder pads in her briefcase.

Starting point is 00:06:49 I tried that on for a while, you know, when I became an employee at a big corporation, I'm like, well, that feels uncomfortable, you know? Right. And I honestly remember a big turning point was when I was honored for, I think it was the Mother of the Year Award. I don't know how they choose that. But I remember I wore blue jeans. I wore really dark blue jeans and a blue blazer, and someone came up to me, they're like, oh, my God, you are confident enough to wear blue jeans. No one did that back then.

Starting point is 00:07:20 And I just said, yeah, why not? Right, because I hear you saying you have a lot of doubt, and yet I also see you throughout the book sticking to certain convictions. So if we go all the way back to you as a budding makeup artist, right, the fashion is overdue everything, right? Make people look very different than the way. they actually look and yet even early in your career when you're trying to build a career which this is almost some of the most vulnerable time for us you even then were like but here's what I do

Starting point is 00:07:53 yes because I tried it on and it just didn't feel right like I'm someone that deals more with feelings and gut than with thinking it just didn't seem right like I could I couldn't do it to make the people look good I just couldn't either I wasn't talented enough or I just didn't like the style of it. So I just started kind of doing it my way. And at the same time, like shifting some things. Like so I couldn't work with some of the same people that I was trying to work with. I had to find my people. I had to find people that understood me, appreciated me, liked the kind of makeup, liked my personality. You know, walking into a studio with the fabulous fashionistas back in the, you know, in the 90s was.

Starting point is 00:08:40 kind of terrifying, you know, because I would walk in and I really couldn't be myself. Or at least I didn't know that I could be myself. You mentioned in the book that you chose normalcy over fabulosity. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that that choice you were able to make because in the one situation you could just be yourself and in the other you had to pretend to be somebody else and that just really rubs you the wrong way, right? It feels uncomfortable. It feels. It feels uncomfortable and I realized in my life being comfortable is the most important thing in my clothes by the way whatever I'm wearing I can't be an uncomfortable clothes like it just I just can't be I cannot be in uncomfortable shoes and I really don't you know enjoy being in situations where I'm really

Starting point is 00:09:29 uncomfortable but I walk into a lot of situations even now where I don't know what I'm walking into and I usually find my way you know there's always always like a second where you're like, okay, I don't know what to expect. Like I'm going to speak to a, you know, a bunch of women next week. I don't know if these women are going to be dressed, you know, as corporate women, you know, with fancy clothes or they're going to be more relaxed because it's at the U.S. Open. I have no idea. If I had a crystal ball, then when I go get dressed, I could kind of decide, you know, what Bobby I want to be. But I know me, I'm going to find something that could kind of fit with both. Yeah. It's funny. Every day before I come into the

Starting point is 00:10:13 studio to record an interview, I think about, okay, well, I probably need to shave. I need to look reasonable, right? And today I thought, well, I've just got this t-shirt on. Should I put out something else on? Because I'm talking to Bobby Brown. And then I went, hang on a second, Bobby would not put on a different shirt for this. So I'm in what I was wearing. So here we are. I'm wearing a similar, you know, black t-shirt and, you know, a black unicloat sweater. So I don't have a fancy outfit, but I did have a little makeup put on because I didn't have any makeup on this morning. Because now everything you do is, like, photograph, so. Well, I am not as pale as I look in this camera that you have.

Starting point is 00:10:52 I look like Casper the ghost in this particular one. I don't know why, but I was thinking. The lighting is bright and you're overexposed. Yeah, I was thinking, I need Bobby to come get me, get me, set up right for this you know i've got i got a book coming out next year i'm like i got to look good on these book interview podcasts so right like by the way you know the thoughts in your head are normal yeah this is what people think about i don't care if you're cindy crawford you know or michelle or barrake or you know will be will be equal trump like maybe he doesn't think about it but his wife

Starting point is 00:11:23 and people you always think about like what do i have to do to make to be presentable to be myself and that's the difference i don't want to be i'm not presentable anymore for other people it's for me you know and because i have such a busy crazy life i not only think about right what should i wear to be right for where i'm going but then i'm going right to the airport and i'm going to be on an overnight flight i don't want to have to change my entire wardrobe right i just you know i'll change my shoes maybe and you know i'll take off i don't even know what i'm wearing if i'm going to wear a blazer or a sweater. If I have a blazer on, I will take it off because I'm not flying with a blazer. Yeah. I think that one of the things that you're kind of making a point of, and I think

Starting point is 00:12:08 it's a valuable one, is we often think that authenticity is like, we're always just one way. And what you're sort of showing is that there's a way to be authentic, and there's also a way to show different sides of yourself, depending on the sort of circumstance or situation that you are in. Well, and your mood and how you feel. I mean, I have a tendency to feel slumpy when I'm not, when I am not trying. You know, I go out of the house. My hair is wet in a ponytail. I've got my, you know, Lou Lemon tights on and a sweatshirt. And if I had a like flick a switch, which I do a lot and, you know, shoot something, I look really slumpy. So some days I'm okay with that. And other days, you know, I'm like, you know what?

Starting point is 00:12:57 I got to give myself five minutes to put makeup on. All right. Like today I had my hair done. So, you know, to me, that's a game changer. Looks great. Thank you. To me, it's a game changer. I need, you know, and I also had my nails done because we have a manicurist that comes

Starting point is 00:13:11 once a week to our office. So, and those are days. And you know what? Everyone's got to figure out what they could do that makes them feel a little bit better. Right. You can't see the lower half of me. but I put on certain pants every day that I go to work. No one sees them.

Starting point is 00:13:29 I mean, my entire career, everything I do is, you know, chest up. But for me, they signal something in my brain. They signal like, okay, this is time to work. It's a different thing. And anyway, yeah, I think that sort of idea of recognizing that the inside drives the outside, but the outside also influences the inside. They work together, ideally. Right.

Starting point is 00:13:52 And, you know, look, I'm not going to love it. It takes a lot of work to be comfortable with yourself and you're not always, you know, but figuring out what makes you feel better. And, you know, I'm in the business of helping people look a little bit better. And also, you know, it has a lot to do with how you feel. From your health to you what you see when you look in the mirror, like that all matters. Running a podcast in a small business means the work never really stops. Even when I close my laptop, my mind keeps circling.

Starting point is 00:14:43 Who do I need on my team? How do I find someone who fits, not just on paper, but in spirit? Because in a small company like mine, every role is vital. One person can change the whole culture for better or worse. The right person doesn't just fill a job. They bring energies, ideas, and momentum. The wrong fit can be catastrophic. That's why I like LinkedIn jobs.

Starting point is 00:15:07 They make it easy to post a job, share it with your network, and get in front of the kinds of candidates who can actually help you move forward. It's not just about resumes. It's about finding people who fit. It's like what I talk about on the one you feed. small steps compound into big outcomes. Post in one job opens you to an entire network of possibilities.

Starting point is 00:15:29 And that one conversation you have with the right person, it can change the trajectory of your business. So if you're hiring, try it out. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash one you feed. That's LinkedIn.com slash one, the number, Y-O-U-F-E-D. So LinkedIn.com slash one you feed to post your. job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Persona Nutrition delivers science-backed personalized vitamin packs that make daily wellness simple and convenient. In just minutes

Starting point is 00:16:03 you get a plan tailored to your health goals, no clutter, no guesswork, just grab-and-go packs designed by experts. I have been trying to take fish oil consistently for what feels like years, but I can never stick with it because when should I take it? And should I take it with food, without food, that lack of specificity just makes it impossible to build a daily habit. When I did the persona assessment, it gave me a clear plan that actually told me what to take and when. Now it all comes in simple daily packs, morning, evening, and even bedtime. No more half-empty bottle sitting around, no more wondering if I already took it, just one pack, done. And if I ever have questions, I can hop on a call with one of their nutritionists for free. Go to

Starting point is 00:16:48 persona nutrition.com slash feed today to take the free assessment and get your personalized daily vitamin packs for an exclusive offer. Get 40% off your first order. That's persona nutrition.com slash feed. Take the free assessment now. I was thinking about something that you say in the book early on as you're talking about sort of the style that you became known for, which was I always wanted people to look like themselves only a little healthier. And I was thinking about the, kind of work that I do with with clients and people coaching and in my programs. And I was like, I think that's exactly what I'm trying to do. Like, it's not to make yourself into something you're not or be someone you're not, but how do we be a little bit healthier versions of ourselves?

Starting point is 00:17:34 Right. And it's the little things that make a difference. Like there's no big giant, you know, and I'm sure in your business too, change that you're going to do, but it's the little things that make a difference. Yep. I'm thinking, uh, jumping around a little bit here to you, after your company, Bobby Brown, was bought by Estée Louder, and that went really well for a number of years, and then it didn't go so well. And you had a period of time sort of in between, and you chose to be a functional health coach to train for it, which I found really interesting. But one of the things that you mentioned in the book is that you understood this idea of biomimic. No, that's not the right term.

Starting point is 00:18:12 Bio-individuality. Thank you. I went back to school, got my degree as a health coach. and I am, you know, the kind of person that thinks, well, if I just do this, it's going to make a difference. If I just do this and, you know, and I tried all those different things, you know, okay, I'm going to just be a vegan now. Okay, well, I think that lasted maybe one day. You know, I tried keto, maybe that lasted a day. And then after taking the course, you realize none of these things actually work for me because it's just about figuring out what works for me

Starting point is 00:18:46 It's not about what's working for the influencer down the street or my husband or my kids. What is working for me and how can I do it the simplest way and the best possible quality of things? And that's, you know, bio-individuality. Yeah. It just means that we all respond differently to things, you know. Paleo might be a great diet for me, but a terrible one for you. Right. Are you paleo?

Starting point is 00:19:12 I'm not. No. Actually, what I am mostly right now, and it's sort of, of surprising that I'm able to do it is I'm mostly keto. But the reason is that it seems to really do something for my mood and energy. Like it makes an actual pretty significant difference for me. Right. And it doesn't do that for me. It just makes me hungry and angry. And no, I mean, I don't, like I can't do a lot of carbs, but I need carbs. My brain needs carbs. And I don't, and I'm not talking donuts. I'm talking the, you know, the best quality, but not, but I've learned

Starting point is 00:19:50 not a lot. You know, not a lot. I'm still trying to figure that out a little bit. I'm trying to figure out like, okay, is it like truly being in ketosis that makes the difference for me or would simply being low carb make a similar difference? I don't quite have the answers to all of that yet. So, but for right now, it's been working for me in that it hasn't been too hard to do. I've been able to find ways to do it that I don't feel like I'm deprived. And it helps. So we'll see. But, but for plenty of other people, it would be a terrible choice. Right. And I think that's, there's a certain humility in recognizing that we're all different. I remember my partner, Jenny and I at one point were a continuous glucose monitor to see what happens with

Starting point is 00:20:37 our blood sugar. And it was fascinating for me to see we would eat the exact same food at the exact same time and her blood sugar might spike really high and mine would be fine or vice versa for the same food and that really for me sort of shattered this idea that there's a right way to do it for everyone right but there's so many elements right in your day how you slept the night before what was your day like how aggravated were you and and you know what it doesn't my whole theory is it doesn't always work all the time and you just sometimes have to just say, okay, reset. You know, I've been in situations where there's really not the kind of food that's going to make me feel good, but, okay, Bobby, what are the best choices

Starting point is 00:21:22 you could do, you know? And if there's no best choices, let me just have a little bit of something that I know is probably not going to make me feel great. Like, I had a piece of pizza, okay? And I can't just eat one piece of pizza without eating two. But I had two pieces of pizza. You shouldn't. Right. I could not. I mean, honestly, the old Bobby would have eaten three pieces of pizza or even four and said, oh, you know, I blew it. F it, yeah. Two pieces. I'm like, okay, my pants will be tight in the morning, but I won't feel awful.

Starting point is 00:21:54 So, you know, you figure it out. Yeah. I really love what you said there, which is like that, you know, nothing works all the time, right? Life is just a, it's a dance. And it's, we get presented with different circumstances, different situations. We have different capacities at different times. different moments. And, you know, a lot of this, I think, is just like you're saying, you do the best you can in the situation you are in and move on. And if you make a choice that maybe isn't the best,

Starting point is 00:22:24 just reset it in the morning. Say, okay, it's a new day. Let me go back to, you know, for me, it's like two eggs and some oatmeal is going to make me feel good in the morning. And there's times where I don't feel good eating oatmeal. And so I'll have, you know, a half a piece of sourdough toast or something. But, you know, I can't just do a smoothie because I'm ravenous afterwards. So, but you just do the best you can. I'd like to talk about a phrase that I believe you actually got painted on your wall at one point, which is, well, I'll give the whole sentence where you set it up. You say, I've always been open-minded. I see possibilities, not obstacles. Rarely do I have a grand plan. I just follow what interests me. At crucial moments in my life, I have always asked two

Starting point is 00:23:05 questions. What if and why not? Say more about that. You know, I'm really naive. And it's actually a quality that I don't know how to teach people to be. And I'm proud of that. Because being naive, it's like, I don't think things aren't going to work out. But if they don't work out, I don't feel bad because I'm like, all right, that just didn't work. Let me do something different. Let me try it differently. But if you don't try, you don't know. Right. And it's like if you're always afraid of failing or looking like an idiot or dumb or something, you're never going to do it. And then you're not going to say, what if, you're just going to say, why didn't I? So what if? And, you know, oh, I mean, that's more why not, I guess. You know, what if is like, hey, I never thought of that,

Starting point is 00:23:53 but what if I do this? Like, I once had this crazy idea. It made no sense to anyone except me. And I had a friend that knew Howard Schultz from Starbucks. And I was still at Bobby Brown Cosmetics, and I said, people go into Starbucks in the morning, and they're, like, so tired. These poor girls, they get their coffee and they go to work. And I'm like, what if we sold an eye shadow palette and called it, wake up your eyes? And, you know, all the eyes shadows had names of coffee, like cafe, espresso. I thought it was such a cute idea. I got someone in my office to draw it all up.

Starting point is 00:24:29 I found Howard Schultz through a friend of mine. I pitched him. He couldn't have been nicer, but he said, I just don't see it. And he said, let me bring it into the marketing team. And he brought it into the marketing team. And this was years ago. Now, I think they would have jumped all over it. And they just said, no, not a right thing for us right now.

Starting point is 00:24:48 I'm like, okay, no big deal. But I tried it. If I didn't try it, then, and, you know, it's okay that it didn't work. Yeah, that's a great story. You mentioned you're naive, which I think what you mean by that is you don't think everything through like an experienced lens, right? Are there downsides to that for you? Or have you found that to be a personality trait that's really just served you very well? I think it served me well. I mean, you know, because it gives me a little, like I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid to reach out. I'm

Starting point is 00:25:18 not afraid to connect. I'm not afraid. And, you know, there's times I don't, you know, I'm ghosted. I don't get an answer back. And sometimes, you know, I find a different way to reach the person and they never got my email. You know, or other times, you know, I move on because, you know, I also get bored really easily. You know, some things I have a very long time commitment and focus and other things I'm over. So, and it kind of depends. And I'm not afraid to do like too many things at once. You know, my friends don't understand how I'm able to do what I do, but I just, my mind's on a lot of different things. And I think why that I'm able to do these things. I'm pretty good with having a team around me that I kind of say, well, you do this.

Starting point is 00:26:03 You know, let's do this. And then I go to someone else and say, okay, let's work on this. And I keep checking in to see what's going on. You know, I think that's the entrepreneur in me. Check in for a moment. Is your jaw tight, breath shallow? Are your shoulders creeping up? Those little signals are invitations to slow down and listen.

Starting point is 00:26:25 Every Wednesday, I send weekly bites of wisdom, a short email that turns the big ideas we explore here in each show, things like mental health, anxiety, relationships, purpose, into bite-sized practices you can use the same day. It's free. It takes about a minute to read, and thousands already swear by it. If you'd like extra fuel for the weekend, you also get a weekend podcast playlist. Join us at one you feed.net slash newsletter. That's one you feed.net slash newsletter and start receiving your next bite of wisdom. All right, back to the show. You early in your career did, maybe this is a phrase from the makeup world, I don't know, but go-sees a lot.

Starting point is 00:27:13 Not ghost, sounds like ghost, G-O-S-E. What are go-se-es? It's something that I learned when I came to New York and I tried to figure out, how am I going to get hired? Who's going to hire me to be a makeup artist? Like there was no jobs. You don't go and apply. Oh, guess what? I got a job as a makeup artist.

Starting point is 00:27:34 You know, unless you are someone that works, you know, at NBC or ABC, then you get a job. But most in the fashion industry are just, you know, one-off jobs. And when I moved to New York, I opened up the yellow pages, looked up modeling agencies, looked up modeling, agencies, models, all sorts of things. And I went to a modeling agency and I said, okay, how do I break into the fashion industry? She says, well, you need go-sees. I'm like, what's a go-see? That's when you go-see someone and you show them your portfolio. And, you know, I just made sure that my calendar was filled with go-sees. And most of them did not, you know, turn out to be jobs to hire me because I was such a young makeup artist that I didn't have anything in my portfolio

Starting point is 00:28:22 to show my work. But then I started doing go-sees with models and photographers and we would do a photo shoot together and I'd build a book. And eventually someone would hire me for a magazine. So I started to be able to put more things in my book. And that's how I started getting hired as a freelance makeup artist. Yeah, I love that you just keep asking. You had a phrase somewhere in the book where you were like, I'm relentless but nice. Yeah. Which sounds like a great, you know, like a really good strategy. It is. Being nice has definitely served me well. And look, I'm, I think I'm emotionally intelligent enough to know when I am, when it's, I'm not liked, you know, the person I'm pitching is not exactly, you know,

Starting point is 00:29:10 into me. And then you've got to find someone else, you know. So again, you find your people. and you find your posse, and that makes a big difference. And, you know, many, it's funny, many, many of the people that I think turned me down in the beginning that had, you know, no time for me or just, you know, dismissed me when I went to see them. When I started to make a name for myself, all of a sudden, they're like, oh, my God, I've always wanted to work with you. And, you know, I'm like, do you don't remember me, do you?

Starting point is 00:29:40 You know, I remember this one photographer. He's, you know, I, he was so dismissive of me. very nice and said I don't think you're right for this and then years later he hired me and he said I've been trying to hire you you know for a long time and I said you don't remember me do you let me tell you what you said to me the first time I met you and he was like oh my god but you know it happens yeah but you let that go and give people another chance I well of course I did you know I let it go you know look I was different he was different and you know look I I probably wasn't ready to work with him back then.

Starting point is 00:30:16 So it's a good thing. I probably would have failed and, you know, and whatever. He could have been a little nicer in the beginning, you know, but, you know, there's tons of rejections, you know, on a daily basis when you're a young makeup artist trying to get your career going. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's just that it's so important that we learn how to, depending on the field you're in, but lots of fields, I think, we just have to.

Starting point is 00:30:43 to learn to know that rejection is part of it. I mean, I'm in the place right now where I mentioned I've got a book coming out next spring. So I'm in that place where I'm starting to ask people, will you blurt my book? Would you be willing to do this? Would you be willing to do that? Right. And I'm just, it's funny because I feel a little bit like I'm back in high school in a way. Like, can I be in the cool kids club? But I'm just having to be like, you know what? You're just going to ask a lot. And you're going to get a whole lot of nose. And that's fine. You know, it's like when I started the podcast, I asked so many guests. Nobody knew what a podcast was at all, even then, let alone who we were.

Starting point is 00:31:21 And I just kept saying, well, I just keep asking and keep asking and not let the rejection wear you down. And sooner or later, people start saying yes. Yes. And as you get better, hopefully your audience gets better. And then people are like, ah, uh-huh. Okay. And then someday you've got Bobby Brown's people reaching out to you. And you're like, wow, look, and here we are.

Starting point is 00:31:43 There are a lot of Holocaust films that focus on the horror, and rightfully so. But what struck me about Bao, artist at war, is that inside all that darkness, you see something else. Love, humor, creativity, even moments of laughter. It's people insisting on their humanity when, everything around them is trying to take it away. Joseph Bow was an artist and a dreamer. He risked everything to help others survive and to keep his love for Rebecca alive. In the middle of the concentration camps, they secretly married. A wedding in a concentration camp. It wasn't only an act of love. It was an act of defiance. And for me, this film isn't about what was lost. It's about

Starting point is 00:32:38 what was found. The resilience of the human heart. And if you know, know me, you won't be surprised to know that by the end, I was in tears. Bow, artist at war, directed by Sean McNamara, opened September 26. You can watch the trailer and find showtimes at bowmovie.com. That's spelled B-A-U-Movie.com. I want to spin around to the difficulty that happened when, as I briefly alluded to, well, you could tell the story. You were Bobby Brown, you got bought. You tell the story. I don't need to say it out. But, I kind of want to get to the difficult part. Yeah, well, you know, it's kind of the center of the book is much about this, but my husband

Starting point is 00:33:22 and I started Bobby Brown Cosmetics together, basically from our kitchen table, and we ended up selling it to Estee Lauder after four and a half years. I stayed as an employee 22 years, and, you know, the day I left was a pretty tough, you know, emotional time for me, filled with sadness, anger, excitement, you know, all of those emotions one by one, you know, kept coming in. And, you know, I somehow got through it. But it wasn't easy. And, you know, I didn't have a psychologist, a therapist. I didn't. But I ended up, you know, working with, believe it or not, a chiropractor that did energy release. And so he just kept helping me get the negative energy out of my body and it was so incredible. And then I started working with a life coach, which I didn't know

Starting point is 00:34:18 what the hell life coach was, who kind of just helped me practically figure out how to start doing things and figuring things out. And so the, you know, very unusual path, but those two things really helped me. And plus, I just kept doing a ton of projects. You know, I just kept jump, something would come up and I would jump into it. So, um, you know, it was like starting over again. Right. Because you basically left, it didn't end well at Estee Lauder. It sounds like there had been problems for a little while before, just a different vision, things of way of doing things. And eventually they basically more or less, you know, gave you a role that didn't matter that you didn't want. Well, there was really no role. They, you know, they canceled my work contract.

Starting point is 00:35:08 and offered me to be the face of the brand, which was not what I was wanted to do or be. So as a guy who doesn't know much about the makeup world, did your brand Bobby Brown continue with Esté after you left? Okay. Still there? Still there. Yep, still there.

Starting point is 00:35:29 That's got to be really difficult in a way to have this thing that has your name on it going in directions that you don't have any say in. I mean, I'm not going to lie. in the beginning it was really difficult. It was such a tough emotional thing for me that even as a makeup artist, I wouldn't use any of the makeup. So from the day I left the brand, I don't even think I donated it. I threw it all out and I didn't and I just needed to start over differently. And, you know, I'm also not going to lie. The success of my new company Jones Road has made those feelings

Starting point is 00:36:01 okay. I often joke that like there's a lot of work you can do in. in getting over a breakup that you could do on your own. There's lots of really valuable work. And then when you find your way into the next good relationship is like the actual real, like, okay, now I'm really over it kind of thing. Exactly. Sounds like a similar feeling. And there's always things that come up, you know,

Starting point is 00:36:26 but it's amazing as we get older and we get a little bit more self-aware. You know, you're able to look at things differently. Let's talk a little bit about that period of time after the time with S. Day Louder ended. You got a life coach, you worked with a chiropractor, you talk a lot about sharing with your friends. I think we often have this view that moving forward productively through that sort of thing, which I think you did, sounds like in many, many ways. I think we often have a really tidy view of that. We think like, oh, well, you should, you know, we just moved on. She just moved on. But I'm wondering if you can share about the

Starting point is 00:37:08 lingering aspects of that in the ways in which if it did, it kind of kept coming back to you and take us into the real difficulty of that period a little bit. I mean, really, the hardest part were the people because, you know, they were, most of the people were my people that I hired, my posse. And, you know, we were not supposed to be talking to each other. So that was tough. And I felt, you know, some people reached out to me anyways. Some people called me from their kid's phone. And some people didn't call it all. That was the hardest part. People that I really thought were my people. You know, I understand now they needed their jobs, right? And they couldn't, you know, and they would have been in trouble if they didn't listen. But I moved on and, you know,

Starting point is 00:37:57 I feel really good now because a lot of those people who aren't there anymore have, you know, we've rekindled and they've apologized and we've moved on so and and by the way you know the more room you have in your life you could bring new people in so i've you know rebuilt my posse and i i love love the people i work with like every single person on my team you know they're kind of family and it's and it's really nice and also they're really young and i really like being around young people. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I do. I feel for those people that were in that situation, right? That's a really difficult position to be in. Like, I feel torn between my probably mentor in many cases, you know, this mentor of mine, this person who means a lot, and, uh, keeping a job. And that's,

Starting point is 00:38:48 you know, that's just a lousy position to be in. You mentioned that as you were getting ready to start these other projects, you hired a woman right out of an Apple store because she was very persistent in helping you. When you're hiring someone, what is it that you are keen in on? Do you even know or is it just so intuitive to you? Well, look, I'm not always right. I make mistakes like anyone else. It's usually someone that I could talk to, someone that I'm comfortable talking to, someone that is curious, someone that has a pulse and a personality. Because sometimes you interview people and they are either nervous or their duds or something. Like I like to see a spark. I could sense if they're genuinely into what I'm doing or if they're just kind of full of it

Starting point is 00:39:38 pretending that they are. You know, I interviewed one person for a, you know, pretty big job and she had never used the products. If you had an interview with me at Jones Road, would you not go into one of the stores or order online and at least try to understand what this company's about? So, you know, that was a deal breaker. I certainly would. I mean, you would think, right? Seems like, yeah, it seems like basic, basic sort of common sense. And there's a store like five minutes from my office. You could have gone in there and had your makeup done, right? Like, and you know, you come and looking great. Wow, you look, you look the part. As you were working through this transition period. You kind of got your health together and all of that. And then you say at one point in the book, like, you realize something was missing fun. And I'm curious, did the realization that you were missing fun come from the fact that you now have a time to think about it? Did it come from that you were having fun at your previous role and hadn't quite figured that out yet? I'm just curious how that evolved. I mean, it's certainly one for me that I have to consciously prioritize.

Starting point is 00:40:51 Like, I can get so focused. And I actually do think so many of the things I do are fun, but they're not fun with like a capital F in the same way, right? So it sounds like that was a later and career kind of thing for you to realize, like, hang on a second. There's something I'm missing here. Well, it's so interesting because, yes, I had more time on my hands because I was so over-scheduled, you know, for years and years and years.

Starting point is 00:41:16 And when I wasn't working, I had things to do with the kids. I had doctor's appointments or, you know, tutors, or I just was really busy. And, you know, I also realized I don't like golf. I don't like tennis. I don't really like those things that everyone else is doing. It seems like so much fun. It's not fun for me. So then I had to think, what is, what do I love?

Starting point is 00:41:41 What is fun for me that's not work? Because my work is fun. And, you know, it was hip-hop dancing. So I started taking, you know, these. exercise classes and then I did a bunch of privates and, you know, I kind of evolved from there. But to me, I love exercising. You know, it's fun, but it's a job. You got to get this done. But dancing, you know, I dance by myself in my bedroom or in my gym sometimes. You still hip-hop dancing then?

Starting point is 00:42:12 I've been listening to or watching a video out of the UK where he's phenomenal and he's got all these like very regular people behind him dancing. And I, you know, it's as short as 15 minutes and I do it. I really enjoy it. I'd like to circle way, way back, actually, to the early parts of your story. You talk a lot about your family early in the book. And there are really good and inspiring stories in there. There are stories of your Papa Sam and your Nana Minnie, your Aunt Alice. But there's also your mother who had bipolar disorder. and struggled a lot, how do you think about taking the good out of that and also then dealing with the bad parts of that? Like, how do you think about sort of making all that work for

Starting point is 00:43:01 you? Well, first of all, she's not with us anymore. Like, if she was still here, you know, I probably would have written differently in the book. You know, I'm really lucky because my mother had her first, as we call it, nervous breakdown where we realized something was wrong when I was in seventh grade. So up until then, I had the most loving, wonderful, you know, mother that gave me so much of herself. And that's how I choose to remember her. And, you know, then for years she was kind of up and down on and off while she was figuring out what was going on. And, you know, then she struggled a bunch. And that was really tough, you know, so I could think of her both ways. I mean, I spent more time trying to mother her or to help her

Starting point is 00:43:54 or to deal with her than I did as a young girl that got so much from my mom. So, you know, not the easiest, but I am someone that tends to see a glass half full. And I know so many of the qualities that I'm proud of is because of my mom. And she's the one that, you know, really encouraged me to be a makeup artist. And I know she was really proud of me. And I also know that all the issues that she had, I mean, it's a disease. She couldn't help. And, you know, as you get older and you've been on medication your whole life, then you deal with other things, you know. So it's, you know, definitely a journey. And I think what's so important about having this story in the book, they said people, we all go through things with our families. And it's what you do with

Starting point is 00:44:49 the experience and how you move on or move through it that's going to make a different. Yeah, you say so many people focus on what they didn't get from their upbringing. I believe understanding and appreciating what you did get is the first step in knowing and accepting yourself. And you go in and say, it's not to minimize trauma or other things. But I really like that focusing on understanding and appreciating what you did get. And I think this is a dance, right? For some people, it's like you first have to accept and appreciate the ways in which you didn't get certain things as a child if you're in a denial sort of story, right? So you almost then have to go and say, well, actually, it was kind of messed up for a while. But for me,

Starting point is 00:45:28 it has helped me a lot to find my way back around to what I did get from each parent, right? And that has helped me situate things a little bit differently. My father has passed now, so I can talk a little bit more freely. about him, but what I realized from him is that that's where my entire work ethic came from. I mean, I got that, I believe, from him. And it has served me extraordinarily well my whole life. It's one of my good qualities. Like any good quality can be taken too far, but overall, it's good. And so when I was able to sort of find that, and then similar things with my mother,

Starting point is 00:46:06 like I love to read. And so much of my job, I do what I do because I get to read. And I got that from my mother. So while acknowledging the things that were difficult and maybe I didn't get, it has been really important for me to circle back around, like you say, and find out like, oh, yeah, I did get some really good things. And I realized recently I was like, you know, I can't blame them for the negative things and then take credit for the good things myself. Yeah. Right. You can't tweeze things apart that cleanly. It doesn't work quite like that. Because even some of the qualities that I use to turn the difficult things into good parts of me came from them, right? It's just, You can't separate the two. Yeah. And also there's things that maybe you not, you didn't get from them that you wish you had. Guess what?

Starting point is 00:46:49 You can give them to yourself. Yeah. And, you know, you could also have these experiences with your new family, your kids. Mm-hmm. You know, and trust me, you know, I'm sure my kids one day are going to be saying all the things that they didn't get from me. Of course. You know, I'm sorry, I've worked my whole life. I've been home as much as I possibly can.

Starting point is 00:47:08 And I'm sure, you know, they're proud of me, but I'm sure there's resentment. you know that I wasn't I mean I was around more than any working mom I know but I'm sure there were times where you know their stay-at-home mom friends were always there and I wasn't always there but I made sure we had you know the best people supporting our family and you know picking them up and playing with them whatever they were going through I made sure you know we had a manny for my kids because you know three boys and they did all these sports so it was it made total sense I've never heard that phrase before in this moment. A manny.

Starting point is 00:47:44 It's genius. He was in school to be a teacher, and he just, you know, he was the coach of their baseball games. Now, his daughter just babysat my granddaughter, so it's just funny, full school things. How lovely is that? How lovely is that? Before you check out, pick one insight from today and ask, how will I practice this before bedtime? Need help turning ideas into action? My free weekly bites of wisdom email lands every Wednesday with simple practices, reflection, and links to former guests who can guide you, even on the tough stuff like anxiety, purpose, and habit change.

Starting point is 00:48:21 Feed your good wolf at one you feed.net slash newsletter. Again, one you feed.net slash newsletter. I guess let's close by me just reading, and maybe the last line in the book, or it's very close to the last line. just let you say a little bit about it as a way for us to wrap up, which is a life after all is what you make it. Wow, that's my last line in the book. I think so. I know, I believe you. I haven't, but trust me, I worked on that book so long.

Starting point is 00:48:51 Oh, I know. I know the whole. It's ridiculous. It gives me one more time. A life after all is what you make it. You know, I don't feel powerless. I don't feel a victim. Yes, I know I have a lot of luck and a lot of amazing things.

Starting point is 00:49:08 everyone has different things in their life and it is what you make it's how it's how you look at things right it's how you look at things and i do think the good news about getting older is you realize how all the hard work and all the angst that you put into everything is you know you reap the benefits if you do it for a reason you know not easy being a mother of three boys not easy but sure joyful. Yeah. Well, Bobby, thank you so much for taking the time

Starting point is 00:49:41 to join us on the show. We'll have links in the show notes to the book and where people can find out all about you. So thank you so much. Thank you so much. I can't wait to read your book too. Wonderful. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:49:53 Thank you so much for listening to the show. If you found this conversation helpful, inspiring, or thought-provoking, I'd love for you to share it with a friend. Sharing from one person to another is the lifeblood. of what we do. We don't have a big budget, and I'm certainly not a celebrity, but we have something even better, and that's you. Just hit the share button on your podcast app or send a quick text with the episode link to someone who might enjoy it. Your support means the world, and together

Starting point is 00:50:22 we can spread wisdom one episode at a time. Thank you for being part of the one you feed community.

The One You Feed - What If and Why Not? A Mantra for Living with Curiosity and Courage with Bobbi Brown

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.