The Oprah Podcast - Mega-Bestselling Author Kathryn Stockett on Finding Her Voice Again After ‘The Help’

Episode Date: June 2, 2026

Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Oprah?sub_confirmation=1 New York Times best-selling author Kathryn Stockett talks with Oprah about her long-awaited novel The Calamity Club. She reveals how daunting it was to write a second novel in the wake of the success and the criticism of her smash debut hit The Help. The book sold over fifteen million copies, rose to number one and was on the best-seller list for more than two years. In 2011 it became a hit movie garnering four Oscar nominations and an Oscar win for Octavia Spencer as Best Supporting Actress. In The Calamity Club Kathryn shifts her perspective and writes a coming-of-age story set in the Depression era South about its two main characters Birdie and Meg. Kathryn explains how the cast of characters live inside her and yearn for expression through her written word. She shares her desire to tackle shocking challenges that women faced during that time. She says eventually the story evolved into an adventure about a group of bold, unbreakable women who overcome incredible hardships to reclaim their lives. The camaraderie, courage, resilience and the love between these characters will have you crying one page and laughing out loud the next. Three readers zoom in from their homes with questions for Kathryn about the book. BUY THE BOOK! 'Calamity Club' https://www.amazon.com/Calamity-Club-Novel-Kathryn-Stockett/dp/1954118813 Chapters: 00:00:00 - Welcome Kathryn Stockett, author of ‘Calamity Club’  00:02:58 - 17 years between books  00:05:00 - Kathryn on the criticism of ‘The Help’  00:06:03 - How it changed her writing 00:08:15 - Getting fired by her publisher 00:09:30 - Characters and plot of ‘Calamity Club’ 00:12:20 - How Kathryn found her characters 00:13:40 - Reactions to ‘Calamity Club’ 00:17:20 - Will there be a sequel? 00:20:43 - How will ‘Calamity Club’ be received?  00:25:17 - Women in the 20s 00:27:10 - Theme of found family  00:28:02 - What she wants readers to take away  00:31:55 - Advice to young women 00:35:35 - Kathryn’s favorite character 00:37:00 - Writing this story kept her sane  00:38:08 - Finishing the book Follow Oprah Winfrey on Social: https://www.instagram.com/oprahpodcast/ https://www.facebook.com/oprahwinfrey/ Listen to the full podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/0tEVrfNp92a7lbjDe6GMLI https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-oprah-podcast/id1782960381 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The criticism from the help did shape how you started to approach this story and write this story. After many faults starts writing this story, I got fired. My publisher fired me because it had taken me so long. Because you were still operating out of fear? Yeah, there's something, I guess, scrappy inside of me that, you know, if you kick me when I'm down, I'm going to come out of that a little bit wiser and a little bit braver. You're still going to write the book, even though you don't have a contract. I don't give up easily.

I got to say, I'm really stubborn. So when I got fired, it kind of put a fire under my ass to prove them wrong. This success of this book is going to be the best revenge for the publisher that fired you. I can't even believe it. It was fun to write. It was. It was. It was painful. It was fun to write. Hey, everybody. Thanks for stopping by the Oprah podcast. A warm welcome to you all. I know millions of you read The Help. Catherine Stockett's 2009 debut novel, which became a global phenomenon, selling over 15 million copies.

Not many authors get to say that in their lifetime, not in three lifetimes. Back in 2011, the actress Octavia Spencer won an Oscar for her role in the hit film, The Help, based on the book. And now Catherine Stockett's long-awaited second novel, The Calamity Club, is finally here. And I know so many of you are going to devour this book. And it's already, I can tell you, runaway bestseller. I knew that that was going to happen. And I'm thrilled to be sitting on my front porch with the author, Catherine Stockett.

I know you prefer everyone call you Kitty. So I will do the same. Kitty, welcome. So glad to be with you. So glad to be here. Let me just say, I fell in love with this coming-of-age story. And this is what I realized when I read this, I thought all of my favorite books are coming-of-age stories,

beginning with Tony Morrison's The Bluest Eye, of course, Seeley in the color purple. Maya Angelou's story is a coming-of-age story. I know why the cage bird sings. And, of course, to kill a mockingbird and scout. There's something about a young girl's voice coming-of-age that speaks to me so deeply because I was a song. Southern girl coming of age. And obviously, because you have done such an incredible job with this

book, that also spoke to you. This is a story of a group of bold, unbreakable women who overcome hardships to reclaim their lives. The love between them was just, I was crying one minute and laughing really out loud to myself, the next, and then cheering. I think it's both heartbreaking and it's also hilarious at the same time. So you've said writing a second novel in the shadow of the help was daunting. You know, living life and raising my daughter as a divorced woman. But I think it took me so long because I told myself I would be cautious with this next book. I would write something short and simple and not draw the kinds of criticism that some people

had for the help. Yeah. And what I ended up with was a very vanilla. you know, banana-flavored book, version of this book. Because you were trying to write not to offend anybody. That's right. And I was trying to write something that had no heart in it. And what I finally had to admit myself after many years of failure

was that you cannot write about Mississippi, and certainly not in the 1930s, without talking about race, without talking about discrimination and the absurdities of some of the rules that were in existence, especially in a place like Mississippi. Yes, where I was born. Yes.

Yes. And was very happy to get out of at the time that I did. I understand. Yes, and you understand, yes. I always said I was born at the right time. I was born and I'm going to start talking like Mississippi. I was born in 1954

when Brown versus Board of Education and the luckiest thing that ever happened to me was that I left Mississippi before I ever spent a day in a segregated school. Because had I grown up in a segregated school with teachers who were teaching me that, you know, I was less than, I would not have had the confidence or the agency or authority that I managed to have

as a young girl moving to Milwaukee and never having to endure any of that. I think truly that made all the difference for me. And so what did you learn from the criticism of the help? And what did you understand as the crux of that criticism? I'm of two minds about the help. I mean, on the one hand, I get it. I understand the criticism.

I understand that it put some people off that a white woman was writing a story that they perceived as a black woman's, story. The story to tell. To tell. But the truth is, it was the story that I needed to write to answer a lot of the questions that I had about my childhood and about where I came from and about the things that I was taught. And I understand the criticism, but it was a story that just came out of me. And I don't know how to quiet the voices in my head. We write what we write. because we have to.

Did the criticism cause you to approach this book differently or make different decisions? You said in the beginning you were writing cautiously and that it turned out to be something flattened and it didn't feel like it was coming from a real place. So were you conscious of the criticism from the help as you were writing Calamity? Oh, absolutely.

I mean, when I wrote the help, it was just me kind of pouring my heart out onto the page with no expectation. of me. And I didn't think anybody was going to read it. And I had 60 rejections from agents to back that up. And when I sat down to write the second one, instead of just me sitting in a room with the page alone, this time it was me in a room with all those readers and all those critics in that room kind of staring me down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With expectations. With expectations. What are you going to do now. Right. Yes. You've said, I'll probably get in some trouble for this one, a fate I'm drawn to. Above all, the

story embraces a woman's right to determine her own fate, which feels increasingly relevant these days. Why do you think you're drawn to getting in trouble? Oh, that's a great question. Who knows? I was just born this way. I feel like I've been in trouble most of my life for something. Yeah. And I think it also has to with the fact that I, you know, I have a sense of humor, and I'm going to always search for the humor in some of the darkest moments. And I don't see how people get through life without looking for the humor.

And it's, you know, sometimes it works for me. Sometimes it kind of, I'm told I'm very hard to be married to. Is that what your ex-husband said? Yeah. So tell me this. You were saying the criticism from the help did shape how you started to approach this story and write this story. Were you finally able to let that go to shake that off and just delve into the lives of these women you've now written about in Calamity? After many faults starts writing this story, I got fired. My publisher fired me because it had taken me so long because I guess the material wasn't something they wanted. And that was the old version. That was the vanilla version.

Yeah. And I really felt like I had let down myself. I felt like I'd let down my family. Because you were still operating out of... fear. Yeah. When I got fired, when I lost my contract, I really felt like I had failed everybody. And there's something, I guess, scrappy inside of me that, you know, if you kick me when I'm down, I'm going to come out of that a little bit wiser and a little bit braver. And once that happened, I was able to just sit down and write the whole book over from a very fresh perspective.

So I want to talk about the story without giving too much away. I have to say, I've now given this book to so many of my friends who say, I wish it wouldn't end. I could not believe how many times I laughed. I could not believe these characters. Would you set up the characters in plot? Because as I was saying earlier, I am drawn to stories with coming-of-age Southern girls. And Meg is a character like we've never seen before. Well, thank you. I really like writing in the voice of a child because a child can see through the bull yet. Can I say that? Yes, you can. And they're going to speak truths that sometimes an adult loses sight of. So because of the plot of this story, sort of the punchline, so to speak, you know what it is. Yes. I also needed an adult. narrator. So I was able to mix the two narrators, the 11-year-old girl and, you know, the 24-year-old kind of old-made, unmarried woman also from Mississippi. And I felt like that way I could give two perspectives of one story. And so I love this passage about young Meg's life in the orphanage on page 127. You write, sometimes I feel old. Oh, this is what Meg is saying at 11 years old.

Sometimes I feel old, old in my skin and my bones. I remember when I turned nine at my mama's house, I could still feel a little eight left in me. But when I turned 10 in this place, there was not any nine left to spare. Now I'm afraid I might already have used up the rest of my 11 and most of my 12 too. So I just love that line.

How do you come up with it? I could still feel a little eight left in me. I don't know. Who knows where, you know, the muse speaks to you, how the words come. I don't know. I wish I did. Meg suffers abuse at the orphanage, and she describes it this way. It's like she's trying to whip the hope out of me. All the while, she's whispering, dirty, filthy girl. After 15 licks, Ms. Garnett sits down in the chair, panting. She only quits because her arm gets tired. Were these scenes difficult for you to write?

Not difficult, but that line, I wanted the reader to see firsthand. that sometimes you can't whip the hope out of somebody. Genuine hope is powerful. Yeah. On page 136, you write this about how Meg feels. All this noise inside us, and we can't make a sound. I felt like so many young girls, boys, people feel this way. Those 11 little words speak volumes for so many people in similar situations.

So you were saying that for her, but saying it also for so many people. So many people that have been silenced that don't have the chance to speak up. I guess it's why I write to have a chance to say my peace. Our listeners tell us that the podcast is resonating with you and is serving as a bright spot in your day. That means a lot to me. So here's the thing. I would really appreciate it if you like and subscribe to the Oprah podcast on YouTube

or wherever you podcast. It's just a quick tap of the subscribers. button and that way you won't miss an episode in your queue. You don't have to pay anything. I know subscribe usually means you're paying something, but this time it means you just are notified when there's something new. There are many more to come that we're excited about. So thank you for watching and listening. Time for a quick break. When we come back, readers share their favorite moments and what had them. Hello, hello, elling. That's next. This episode of the Oprah podcast is sponsored in part by Bowlin Branch. There's a moment, and if you've been running on empty for years,

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Upgrade your sleep with Bolin Branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bolinbranch.com slash Oprah Pod with code OprahPod. That's Bolin Branch, B-O-L-L, and Branch.com slash Oprah Pod, Code Oprah Pod to unlock 15% off exclusions apply. Welcome back to the Open. podcast. I'm talking with best-selling author, Catherine Stockett, about her new novel, The Calamity Club. Oh, is it a hoot? It's both poignant and laugh out loud, for real funny. I know you're going to love it. Great for this summer reading. Now back to the conversation. So you knew you had so if you were having Meg, you know you needed an adult to be a counterpart for what comes

later on in the story, all that crazy calamity stuff that happens. But where did she actually come from? When did you first hear her voice? Oh, probably from my own daughter. Just hearing that childhood voice and saying things to me that, you know, you wonder, where did you come from? Yeah, where did that come from? Yeah.

Yeah. And so how did she start to form? And did she start to speak to you? And did you write every day? I did. I wrote almost every day, every day that I could. Yeah. So now you've been fired. You've lost your contract. Yeah.

But you're still going to write the book, even though you don't have a contract. I don't give up easily. I've got to say, I'm really stubborn. So when I got fired, it kind of put a fire under my ass to prove them wrong or something. It took me a minute to get out of, you know, the bottom of the brain. This success of this book is going to be the best revenge for the publisher that fired you. I can't even believe it. Well, it was fun to write. It was fun to write. It was.

It was painful. It was fun. Yeah. All right. We gave a few lucky readers the copy of the Calamity Club, and Jamila is joining us now from North Carolina. Jamila, hi. Hello. So wonderful to meet you, Oprah and Catherine.

Oh, Jabila, I'm so excited to hear your take on this story. I love this story. I'm a Southern Girl, too. I'm from Mobile, Alabama. and Catherine Mobile got a tiny shout out in the book. Yeah. And just really reflecting on this time and places I've been and visited because I grew up on the Gulf Coast.

So all those areas of Luxie, Jackson, New Orleans, Osford, very familiar to me. And it was a wonderful kind of flashback into time for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, I gave this to three of my southern friends who were just over the moon. They couldn't even. I think there's, everybody's going to love the book,

but I will tell you that if you were a Southern woman, I think it resonates more deeply. I'm not sure why. Jamila, can you tell us why? I think it's because you know these stories. So my grandmother, she grew up cleaning white people's houses. Yeah. And so some of these stories were very aligned.

And Ophelia in the book, kind of reminding me a little bit of my grandmother. So I think we have some ways we relate to it. Very real. Yeah, me too. My grandmother grew up cleaning white people's houses in Mississippi. So I understand very much. Do you have a question for Kitty? I do. So tears welled up in my eyes at the end. I was so happy and excited for Charlie and Meg. But I must tell you,

I honestly was like, what has happened next with the rest of them? What happened with Bertie and Jack? And do they have a future together? What about Rory and his second student in New Orleans? What about Garnett? Does she get retribution for what she did? What about, Rory, like, again, like, is he, what happens when he comes out? There's so many characters, right? Yeah, and were you worried? I was so worried that when Jack found out what Bertie was doing, he would then sort of think that she was some kind of soiled woman or something and wouldn't want to be around her if

he found out that that that's what she was doing. I was very worried about that. Were you worried? Especially after the gift he had given her, which we won't give away. Yes. Right? I was like, this is going to be a terrible revelation for him. but what a way he handled it.

And so I hope we enjoyed that just like we did. What a way. And were you worried too? Were you worried too, Jamila, that the sheriff was going to come every night? Yes, yes. I just could not imagine how, again, when they were going into town too,

for anything to mail a letter, to get food. I was worried. Like you, I was just hoping, can we make it to the next day? And I couldn't believe they used her bedroom. I couldn't believe it either. Yes. We just need to make a few more days.

And then when it got to that last day, Oprah, I breathed a sob relief. Like, we made it. Yeah. We made it. We can shut it. No, but what about when the man's coming down the stairs, the man's coming down the stairs and she realizes what's going on in the house? What about that?

And Mrs. Hart? Oh, my gosh. Mrs. Hart? Yeah, what is she said. Oh, just really, it was so much going on. I thought Mrs. Tart. Mrs. Tart's going to have a heart attack when she realizes what's going on in this house. Exactly.

But you see so much maturation and all. all the women given the times. Yes. And I think there was the way she came to appreciate what needed to be done. Desperate Times called for desperate measures. Absolutely. So I know you have a question, but tell me, did you have a favorite character? I think, like you, everyone loves Meg.

But I really did like Bertie. I identified with, you know, kind of her having to be a heroine in so many ways. You know, she never made it back home from what we saw, right? This is why I'd love to know what happens next. And so you kind of gave me the end to ask, are we thinking about a sequel? I really want to know what happens to some of these other characters, Catherine, because while we know Charlie and Meg are probably hopefully doing well together, what about Esmeralda, what about Garnett, what about Rory, what about Bertie and Jack?

Let me just say, y'all are the best readers. Y'all are a writer's dream. I don't know if there's going to be a sequel. I kind of doubt it. I don't want to put too hard of a finish on, you know, a story. And I like to leave, you know, leave the reader wondering a little bit. But Kitty, but Kitty, but Kitty, you know, you can do what Elizabeth Strout has done with, all with, you know, all of... She's such a great writer.

Yeah, Olive Kidridge. Yeah. And everybody in that town ended up having, in some form or another, their own story and were in other books. I mean, there is no reason, Kitty, that you cannot. continued this story with these characters. Moving on, I mean, literally, Bernie, what happens to Bertie and Jack and Bernie and Jack's family or any of the other women? Don't you agree? Don't you agree, Jamela? I completely agree. I mean, even some of the offshoot parts like Lucille, what happens to her? What happens to the Heidelbergs? Like, you have so many places you can take this, Catherine. So

my vote is for a sequel, but absolutely up to you. Thank you. Absolutely up to you. Thank you. Thanks for your enthusiasm. Thank you. Okay. Don't you want to pass it on to everybody? Don't you want to say everybody? Absolutely. I think everyone should read this. And while it seems daunting, right, with a number of pages, once you get going, it just moves, Catherine. You can't put it down. Or then you, like you said, Oprah, you want to put it down because you're almost scared what's going to happen next. It's such a delight. So I hope everyone picks it up and gives it a read. It actually, I think, left me with less judgment of women's choices to do what they need. to do until they can do what they actually want to do. Did you feel that too, Jamila?

I did. That, you know, there's a character that has to leave her job because of men, right? And men taking opportunities. And juxtaposing that with what the ladies in the C club had to do, right? I think it absolutely gives you that confidence in knowing, listen, everyone should read the story and take away from do what you have to do. And women have been doing it for years. And it's a reminder of how important it is to to walk with conviction as women to keep moving forward. To keep moving forward. Jamila, thank you. Thank you.

All right. Spread the book story around, right? The Calamity Club. And so, are you one of those writers that has a schedule? If I don't write almost every day, I lose my momentum. I'm a big believer that the voices are always there. I have to clear my schedule. I have to clear my palate just to be able to hear them.

And, you know, it's kind of like just because you turn off the radio doesn't mean the music stop playing. So, yeah, if I lose my thread and I lose my frequency. Because you got so much criticism, well, not so much, but you got criticism after the help was such a great success. So you get criticism for writing about black women because you were a white woman. Did you decide, okay, well, I'm only going to write about white women? I've really tried. Yeah. I really tried.

But you can't write about white women. women in the South without putting some black women in there. This is true, and especially in Mississippi. In Mississippi? 50-50. And so were you worried about that, bringing the black characters in? I'm still worried. Yeah.

I'm still worried. I'm a southerner. I was born to worry. Yeah. And what are you worried about? Just the same things that happen with the help. You know, I am a white woman, and it's, you know, it's a story about it. about white people and black people

and the relationships that they have, the help was. And a little bit in this one, too. When that criticism came, were you hurt by it, where you say you were shocked by it? I was surprised. Surprised by it, yeah. Yeah. Did you feel that that criticism was valid?

It was, you know, told from the perspective of only through the white eyes. The white gaze. The white gaze. The white gaze. And I'm a white woman. The screenplay was written by a white eyes. white man, a good friend of mine. But at the same time, for a lot of people in America, it was a first step. It was the first introduction to the complexities of the relationships between blacks and whites

in the South. And do you feel differently now about who is allowed to tell what story? I don't try to overanalyze it very much. All I can say is that as a writer, I don't really have control over what I write. I write with my heart. The voices come out of me. Some people will say you obviously have control over what you write, but you're saying you don't have control

in terms of what your heart wants to speak to. That's what I hear you saying. That's true. Yes. Yeah, yeah. That's true. And I've wondered sometimes if maybe the issue wasn't that I wrote the help, it was that it became such a success.

Maybe that was the problem. It's hard to think about telling an artist, no, no, that's not allowed. You can't create that. Yes. That's crossing the line. Yes, yes. But again, I get it.

Because where would we be if artists aren't allowed to express what's inside them? And some say that the role of art should make you a little uncomfortable. I see both sides. Okay. Let's talk about the Calamity Club. I think readers will feel transported back to the South in the 1930s, from the slang to the language, to the clothing. How did you craft that? I had to do a lot of research.

I had to do interviews. I looked at a lot of Udora Welty's photographs and read her stories. I had to really immerse myself in the time. And I think I thought most of it right. I really wanted the reader to feel like the air of the time and feel, just feel like, know what it felt like to be a woman in 1930 in Mississippi. Where did all of these women come from? I mean, it's a cast of characters in this story.

How did this story come to you, Kitty? All I can say is that my characters come. to tell me what they're going to do. I go into writing a story knowing maybe about 10% about what's going to happen. So what did you know of Calamity Club? First of all, where'd that name come from? Well, Mark Twain uses it, and I thought it was just a great word of the time. Calamity. Calamity. It's a calamity. And, you know, the C Club has a little special meaning to me as well. And, you know, if you read the book, you'll stumble across that. But I don't know. Where? Where are we get these ideas?

All these voices in my head. Do they come one at a time? Do they come as a group? I don't know if they just show up. And they tell me what they're going to do. And sometimes they say that they're going to do this. And I say, no, you're not. I don't want to write that.

And then what did they do? They go do it anyway. Okay. So Meg came to you because of your daughter. Yes. Yeah? Okay. Birdie came from where?

I think Bertie came from me. Okay. To someone who speaks her mind and often gets in trouble for it. Okay. Charlie, Meg's mother is in prison, declared unfit and, you know, sterilized against

her will. In your research, you discovered in the 30s, so many women were often diagnosed as the word time, the word that you used in the book, feeble-minded or promiscuous. And what else did you learn about women in that period? So much. Tough time

to be a woman. I don't think there's been enough written about this subject. But in the 1920s, in the 1930s, the eugenics movement was just starting to heat up. And the idea was that by sterilizing certain people, they could cleanse the population of what they called undesirables. And these were people that, you know, might have epilepsy, that might have autism, people that they perceived as having a lower intelligence, they thought by sterilizing them, they could stop the procreation of these types of people.

And the one that really stood out to me was that in Mississippi, a woman could be sterilized for being promiscuous. And that one stopped me in my tracks. I mean, I guess, you know, the idea was that if, you know, if you're promiscuous, well, then you must be stupid. And if you're stupid, then, you know, because it's hereditary.

You're going to have all these children that then the state of Mississippi, and so many states adopted these laws, would have to then take care of. As you're saying that, I'm thinking, glad I got out of Mississippi when I did. It's time for a break. Up next, Catherine, Kitty, talks about the power of hope and learning from our mistakes. More on that when we come back. How can working at your local Tims take you further? Sure, you can level up your teamwork skills. You also get a chance to receive a Tim Horan's Scholarship Award.

Ready for what's next? Apply today at careers.timhorins.ca. Thanks for joining me on the Oprah podcast. Nearly 17 years after her mega hit novel The Help. You're going to love, love, love, love reading Catherine Stockett's new book, The Calamity Club. Let's get back to our conversation. Faye is zooming in from Ohio, and I hear this idea of, Faye, did you laugh? How many times did you laugh out loud? Could you even count?

Too many to count. That's what I say about this book. It will have you howling with yourself, really. And I hear this idea of chosen family resonated for you. Absolutely. There's a line in the book that completely stopped me when I read it. It perfectly embodies the theme of found family, and it reads, This slapped together band of misfits made me feel for the first time that I truly belonged. How the hell I wondered did I ever get so lucky? Catherine, what inspired you to explore the theme of found family in this story?

And what do you want readers to feel when they close this book? For somebody like Bertie in the book, that's what she's looking for, a group of people where she feels like she fits in. And so many of us are looking for that. And I think that's a reasonable thing to ask for. life. And she finds it with, yeah, a group of misfits, and it surprises her. As for what I want the reader to take away, I want the reader to feel motivated to protect women's rights. We can't afford to lose any more ground than we already have. Well, I love that. Well, you know what

I loved in the very beginning of the story. When the orphan, when we go to the orphan, when we go to the orphanage for the first time. Well, there's so many things I appreciated about this book. Well, first of all, it's set in the South, and I'm from the South, and Meg is Southern, and she's 11, and she's sparky and bright and all those things, and she's at the orphanage. And when you walk into the orphanage, one of the pivotal locations in the story, the sign out front reads, Welcome to the Lafayette County Orphan Asylum for Girls, found at 1927. We do not accept coloreds, Indians, Jews, Mexicans, Oriental types, twins, anyone who has or has had leprosy, consumption, missing limbs, or hair lip.

No boys, no sick children or anyone of a retarded nature. No girls over the age of 12, no women in the family way. We do not deliver babies here. May the Lord bless you all. That sets quite the tone. Weren't you struck by that, Faye? Absolutely. I remember bookmarking that part of it and going back to that. That tells you everything you want to know about the prejudices of the time, of the prejudices of the time.

So I want to know, did you find signs like this for real in your research? Well, no, but I did know that these, you know, absurdities existed. And I, you know, I made a choice. I said, I can try to stretch that point out. out for 600 pages or on the very first page, I can stick it and assign on the wall. To let you know what you're dealing with. And let the reader know what they're in for.

Yeah. And I think that set the tone. We know what we're in for. We're going to walk into a world of prejudices here. And I think Meg handled them all so beautifully. Thank you, Faye. How many people are you passing the book on, too? I mean, I couldn't wait to pass the book on to as many people as I could.

So many. I'll be recommending this to everyone. It will be my top book of the year. Yeah, I think so. I'm calling it now. I think so. Thank you so much. Thanks, Faye. Thank you. Heather also read The Calamity Club. Heather, hi there. Hi, how are you? Hi, hi, hi, hi. Did you read it all in one sitting, or did you keep coming back to it, laughing out loud? I almost did. I was actually on a flight to San Francisco, so I read it the entire flight there, the entire flight back, and just consumed it as quickly as possible. Yeah, did you laugh out loud? It's definitely a book where you're laughing, you're crying, you're feeling, mixed emotions, you're feeling hopeful. It's beautiful. Beautiful. And I, you know, there was definitely a moment for me when I read the line, um, what if we fail? And the quick response was what if we succeed? And I think that for me really resonated because it's really easy to focus on all the

things that can go wrong. Yeah. Rather than trusting in what will go right. And in my own life, I've had a lot of detours that have changed the course of the path that I thought my life would take. And reading this book definitely felt like validation of, and I think that's really something that women especially we need to focus on to trust that journey. And through that, really learning how confident and brave and strong we really are if we just trust ourselves rather than, you know, what we may see in front of us. Well, they're all in that. They're all in that house trusting each other. That was some crazy. That was a calamitous time in that house.

Do you have a question for Kitty? I do. I do. Catherine, my question for you is many of these characters faced really big decisions and crossroads. What would your advice be for young women and to encourage them to trust in themselves rather than waiting for the universe to give them this perfect sign that everything's going to be okay? You know, I think a lot of women are afraid to make a mistake. And it's a good question because I think that that's one of the reasons why it took me 17 years to write a second book.

We tend to overcompensate. We overthink it when the truth is sometimes just making a decision is just as good as making the, you know, know, perfectly exact right decision. Part of this is because, you know, women haven't had the rights that we do and the rights that we deserve for that long. And so we're afraid to make mistakes. We might lose it. And I just want to tell women that it's okay to make a mistake. That's how we learn. That's how we learn, Heather. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for reading all of those pages. Aren't you glad you did, though? Aren't you glad you did? I just love this book. I'm so glad. I love this moment in the book where I won't tell you what has happened,

but I just love this sentence where Meg says, nobody needs to remind me to count my blessings. I could count the 100 for what I've done in just the last two hours. And oh, it is just all so spectacular. Yeah, what does this say about Meg? That she's still full of wonder and that she has hope. She doesn't lose hope through the whole book. And hope is so powerful. Yeah. Was the idea to bring all of these women together who were sort of outcasts in the outsiders and to show that together they could build something that was really powerful, even though that something would not be what most people would consider, you know, a great business. But it was a profitable one. Yes, it was a profitable one. Yes. Yes, we're all stronger when we come together.

I couldn't believe they were going to do it. I started to get so nervous. You know, I didn't want anything to go wrong with them. And I started to get nervous. I actually put the book down. I thought, are they, is she actually going to go through with it? When they left the house and they went to look for her son, and then there's Bertie left in that house, I thought, she's not going to do it, she's not going to do it, she's not going to do it.

And then she did. She did it. Yeah. And every night I was waiting on the sheriff's. come. Every night I thought the sheriff was coming. Oh, you're such a good reader. I thought the sheriff was going. Every night. And I thought at first, I thought the guy standing outside, he had to be the sheriff, but if he was a sheriff, he wouldn't have been able to just stand outside and watch. He would have brought everybody in and they would have arrested them. So I couldn't figure out who that guy was

until the end. I still didn't know that that's who it was. Thank you. I did not. Yeah. But every night, I was so worried for them every night. We won't give away the plot about the way, but about halfway through the book, there is a draw-dropping secret reveal. So when you start writing, did you know what the key moments would be? Are they plot? Did you plot them out? No.

No, you just let the characters... I was just along for the ride. You were along for the ride. This makes me crazy when writers say this. Oh, no, I really believe the characters are driving the boat. They're driving the story. They're telling me what they want to do. Who did you love the most? Who are the characters you love the most? Oh, I like flossy. I've really enjoyed it.

writing her because I felt like she was so vulnerable. Yeah, she was. And a little pathetic and so honest. At least that's how I tried to write her. And I hope that's the way that she came across. She did. Yeah. So that was your favorite.

Well, Meg was definitely my favorite, of course. And so you quote Emily Dickinson and her famous poem, where Meg says, Hope is the thing with feathers that purchases in the soul. and sings the tone without the words and never stops at all. What do you want readers to actually, or did you want readers to know anything about hope when you were writing this book?

Oh, it is so powerful. I wanted to give Meg kind of a theme song that she could hear in her head on the darkest nights in the orphanage. And so I put that poem in her armor to bring out when she needed it. It's time for one last break, y'all. When we return, Catherine Stockett explains why she feels it's her duty as a writer and a human being to imagine what it's like to stand in another person's shoes.

Come on back for that. We're back with best-selling author, Catherine Stockett. If you know somebody who loves to read a rip-roaring tale and wants a great book for this summer about spirited women, share this episode with them. Now back to the conversation. In the author's note, you say that as a writer and as a human being, I believe it is my duty to imagine, I think you say this in the beginning of the book, you say, as a writer and as a human being, I believe it's my duty to imagine what it feels like to stand in another person's shoes,

to stay sane. I put those imaginings on paper. The Calamity Club is the result. How did writing these women's stories keep you sane? Actually, he drove you a little insane, I'm sure. Well, as for the end note, I have to say, I think they should teach it in school that as a human being, it is so important to imagine what it feels like to have someone else's problems. But, you know, I think it's also vital to imagine.

what it feels like to have someone else's successes. It's how, it's what gives us hope. There's just some voices inside of me that got to get out. And when I write, when I write books, they come out. Did you feel like, I've been redeemed and I've been released that song? Did you feel that this was a releasing when you completed these 800 pages? I was very relieved when I finished the book, yes, after so many years. Well, we aren't going to give away what happens to these characters at the end,

but I will say I was in a puddle, really. Listen, did you always know you wanted to resolve the story this way? A little bit. I wanted to write a slightly different ending, maybe one that wasn't quite, as it turns out. But, hey, I'm okay with the ending. I've made peace with it. You've made peace with it?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you. Kitty Stockett, Catherine Stockett. She likes to be called Kitty. Thank you for this beautiful breathtaking. It's just really.

Thank you. It is an honor to be here. Thank you. The Calamity Club is available now, wherever books are sold. So yes, it's a lot of pages, Gail. It's a lot of pages, but you're going to love everyone. So, Jamila, thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks for reading with us. And for your thoughtful questions. We'll see you next week. Go well, everybody. I hope you all read The Calamity Club. I'm telling you, it is one of the great reads, and particularly for summer. I think you're going to just fall in love with the characters like I did. So good for the summer to share with your friends, and you can buy it instantly now.

Right now, I just love the way this happens. If you scan the QR code on your screen, you can get the book. Happy reading. Our listeners tell us that the podcast is resourable. with you and is serving as a bright spot in your day. That means a lot to me. So here's the thing. I would really appreciate it if you like and subscribe to the Oprah podcast on YouTube

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