The Oprah Podcast - Oprah on The Hoffman Process, How to Forgive Your Parents – And Yourself

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

For over 50 years, The Hoffman Process has helped over 100,000 people transform their lives, helping participants identify negative behaviors, moods, and ways of thinking that developed unconsciously and were conditioned in childhood. Charles “Raz” Ingrasci, co-founder, executive, consultant, and facilitator within the “Human Potential Movement” joins The Oprah Podcast to speak about the popular Hoffman Institute and how their personal growth retreat helps those searching for transformation, spiritual growth, and leadership skills. Actor Orlando Bloom joins the conversation to share his experience with the Hoffman Institute and how it transformed his own life and his parenting style. Raz offers insight into the Hoffman Process by explaining the two core principles; the first being the quadrinity, which is based on four dimensions of self that occur interactively at once, physical, emotional, intellectual and spiritual. The second principle Raz explains is how our survival mechanism is dependent on the parent-child bond, and how that impulse for unconditional love follows us from childhood into adulthood. https://www.hoffmaninstitute.org Follow Oprah Winfrey on Social: https://www.instagram.com/oprahpodcast/ https://www.instagram.com/oprah/ https://www.facebook.com/oprahwinfrey/ Listen to the full podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/0tEVrfNp92a7lbjDe6GMLI https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-oprah-podcast/id1782960381 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So a warm welcome to you and thanks for joining us on the Oprah podcast where I'm always so delighted to be able to share conversations with you about the human experience about the bigger questions that we all have in life when we get still enough to ponder them and Things I believe that matter most to all of us and on this episode We're asking the question, is it possible to confront your worst demons, unwind all the negative patterns you have learned from your parents, have compassion for your parents, and forgive them,

then heal and begin to discover who you really are without all the baggage from your childhood. Now, that sounds like a very tall order, but the reason why I wanted to do this podcast today is because I've been running into many people who say they have done just that, really accepted that tall order and been able to move on with their lives and release the past. Maybe you have or maybe you haven't heard of the Hoffman process. Well,

I have heard it described as 10 years of therapy in one week, like psychological detox, some people call it. And other people have said it's a therapy retreat only for the wealthy or the famous. Others may think it's a hippie-dippie kind of way to spend a week on your personal growth, but lately the thing I keep hearing about the Hoffman process, and I try to pay attention to the signs when it keeps coming up. So I thought it was worthwhile to learn more about it

and to share it with you, because it seems to be a thing that lots of people are talking about, all of you who are watching and listening and letting you make up your own minds about it. Founded in 1967 by Bob Hoffman, the Hoffman Process is a week-long personal growth retreat designed to help people identify, address, and release negative thoughts and behavior patterns. If we get to the core of a human being, it's love.

It's just light and love. And so our secret is that the motive force, the change agent, the beauty, the radiance is all inside of a person. The Hoffman Process also helps people uncover and remove the obstacles blocking them from connecting with their authentic selves. The goal is to allow people to make decisions aligned with who they really are instead of what others expect of them. You said that many people spend their lives climbing a ladder only to get to the top and realize that the ladder was leaning against the wrong wall.

Maria Shriver, Katy Perry, Sienna Miller, and Orlando Bloom are among the more than 135,000 people who credit the Hoffman process for transforming their lives, changing how they see the world and their role in it. I signed up and had, I would say, probably one of the most revealing experiences in my life. And I can only say I wish I'd done it 10 years or 20 years earlier. A three-year research study by the University of California, Davis, found that those who went through the Hoffman process experienced lasting reductions in depression and anxiety, along with significant increases in life satisfaction, compassion, and physical energy. Hoffman really allowed me the space that I needed to reconnect to myself and then also

put myself back together, but in a way that focused on love and on light. I welcome you, Raz Ingrasi. Thank you, Oprah. Raz is one of the founders of the Hoffman Institute Foundation. OK, can you explain to me the core philosophy? Because everybody that I talk to about it has something different to say about what it does.

I'm just so full of love. I have so much love to offer. I see you. I love you. And other people are like, it's cleared me. It's really cleared me to be able to move forward. I was able to let go of so many things in my past. Other people say different things about it.

Well, you've said it actually without maybe knowing what the core of it is, and that is that at, when you get to the core of a human being, it's love. It's just light and love. And so our secret is that the motive force, the change agent, the beauty, the radiance is all inside of a person. However...

Can I stop you right there? Because it's so interesting. I just recently interviewed Jeremy Renner for a show we were doing on near-death experiences. And he said that in that experience, the thing that he realized is that the only thing that mattered and the only thing we take with us when we leave this level of consciousness and move to another is love.

I was on the ice. It took every effort, physical effort, to squeeze out air, to suck air back in. And that's when I was gone. It is a collective divinity of love. Love is the only thing that you take with you when you die. And that coming back after that near-death experience changed him so that he realizes that everything else is just immaterial if it does not involve love. So I just wanted to reiterate that. We don't want to have to die to do it. I'd rather

to experience that, Jeremy. We don't want to have to physically die. We don't want to have to die to do it. I'd rather to experience that, Jeremy. We don't want to have to physically die. We don't want to go through what Jeremy went through. I was thinking, there's a quote of the great Rumi, and he said, your task is not to seek love, but to know the obstacles that you've created to love and to get rid of all those obstacles. Because when you get rid of the obstacles, then what's there is revealed.

And so we all want love. And everything, the society we live in now is so designed to... Block you from that. Well, just to give us substitutes. Yeah. We're all seeking symbols of success. And in our culture, success equals belonging and love and everything like that.

We think it does. We think it does. We think it does. But it doesn't deliver. So the core of it is to be able to reach a level of love for yourself and appreciation for your past, for bringing you to this level of yourself, so that you can love more fully. Yes. And so the secret, our secret in teaching and working with this Hoffman methodology is that we know where we're going, and we're going to your true self.

And it's to reveal by removing the obstacles to that experience. And so, I say what's really unique about Hoffman is it has an ability to help you identify what those barriers are for you and a proprietary method for removing them. Okay, so the Hoffman process is, you all, it's a seven-day on-location retreat that people say you have to experience firsthand to understand, but what can you tell me about that week? Because everybody that comes back says, I can't even explain it to you and I'm can't even explain it to you,

and I'm not allowed to explain it to you. We don't prohibit people from talking about it. Well, first off, it's safe. It's safe for you to be there. And in the program itself, you're safe. You're taken care of. There's no confrontation, humiliation, embarrassment. You're not going to reveal any secrets about yourself

in front of other people that could you later regret. That you're not going to reveal any secrets about yourself in front of other people that could you later regret. Yeah, that you don't want to. No. And you know, three meals served on time, nutritious, great food, time for eight, even nine hours sleep a night. Most importantly, you have to give up your cell phone, is what I hear. Yes, we call that a digital detox.

Okay. Most people, they don't like it at first, but at the end of a week, you really notice how little you want it. Yeah, I know. My friend Maria did it, and I can say that because she said it on here. Sure.

She said she did it and then came out of it wanting to detox even more. So a couple of days a week, she doesn't use her phone at all. Yes. God bless her. She goes, you can't even imagine how freeing it is to not to be attached to your phone. We all remember, we're of an age where we can remember pre-cell phones.

That's right. And it was pretty cool. It was pretty cool. Okay. So the Hoffman Process started with a man named Bob Hoffman. That's why it's called the Hoffman Process. And how did he develop this? and how did you know him? Bob was best known as a, he was kind of renowned as a psychic back in the 70s in the Bay Area. And he was friends with lots of people from let's say the Esalen Institute.

He hung out in all those circles of people developing new ideas. It was a very rich time. But Bob developed a way of working with people that was reading their childhood. Really, he could psychically read a person and tell them what happened in their childhood, that they turned out the way they did. And so many people improved from doing that.

He was doing it one-on-one for a number of years. And then around 1971 or so, his close friend, Claudio Naranjo, a Chilean psychiatrist, the same Claudio Naranjo who introduced the Enneagram to the United States, said, hey, Bob, I think we could turn this into a course. I think we could teach people how to do their own psychic readings.

I think we could really do this in a group. Is it because he had seen a pattern in those psychic readings that a lot of things were coming, the reason people were the way they were is because of what had happened in their childhoods? Correct. Yes. Exactly right, Oprah.

And moreover, people could get on a path of self-discovery. They didn't need someone else to tell them what happened. It was all right there inside if they only could learn how to tap into it. So that's the way it began. In 1972, they held their first process. But for many years, about a dozen, 15 years, they were working four hours a night, four hours twice a week, Tuesdays and Thursday nights, for 13 weeks.

So if you wanted to do the Hoffman process, although it was quite powerful, you had to be in the San Francisco Bay Area. You had to be in the San Francisco Bay Area, and to be in the San Francisco Bay area and you had to go for weeks 13 weeks Yeah, who has that time exactly? Okay. And at the time did people think you know, I mentioned earlier Did people think it was woo-woo hippie-dippy out there? What is going on? Well, I have to tell you I was one of the woo-woo whoo-hoo Who's gonna? Yeah, I was tuned into all of that and part of it. So for me, it was just another really interesting,

he's another interesting guy on the scene. But he had something pretty powerful, but in 1985 is when he switched over to a seven and a half day program. So suddenly it was, okay, people could go into a residential environment, stay there for a week and go through all the changes. Okay, so you, your wife, your daughter and your son all did it, right?

Yes. Liza and Marissa and Mike all went through the process and you all worked there. Why does it resonate so deeply with you and now your family? Well, first off, I want to say that since I was 17 years old in Racine, Wisconsin, I have been a seeker. I don't know why, but at age 17, I became fascinated with Zen Buddhism. And I started in Satori and enlightenment and awakening.

So it's been a lifelong quest for me. But why I did Hoffman, I was 41. Our kids were four and seven. And I heard things coming out of my mouth toward my four-year-old son that I hadn't heard in 35 years. And the last time I heard them, I didn't like them. And I said to myself at that tender age,

boy, when I have kids, I'm not gonna talk to them this way. And in particular, it was my dad. My dad was telling me, don't cry. You know, little boys didn't cry in his world. And so I was suppressed from crying. And so when my son was not happy when he was crying, it was like fingernails on a chalkboard for me. I couldn't stand it.

You heard yourself saying the same thing that your father had said to you. And have the impulse of saying and trying to suppress it. And every one of us has said, when you've been in that situation, I will never do this like my mother did. I will never do this. Right.

And then you end up doing it. Exactly. Yes. Why? Because we're taught how to parent by being parented. So I went and did the Hoffman process. I cleared that out. And honestly, our kid's destiny was changed because I did Hoffman, and that later than Liza did Hoffman. And our kids are super emotionally intelligent. Our kids are super emotionally intelligent. But I was a little extra piece to this. Three years later, after doing Hoffman, my mother had a massive heart attack.

But she lingered on with only 14% of her heart working for about three weeks. And she was in Wisconsin. I was out here in California. So I would work during the week. And then on Friday afternoon, I would leave and go back to Wisconsin for a long weekend and spend the time with her and with my dad who was you know keeping a vigil. So on the third end of the third visit I'm out and we're sitting next to him. It's in

September late late in the month and I was in the passenger seat in his car and the Sun was going down. I was gonna leave the next day and I was in the passenger seat in his car, and the sun was going down. I was going to leave the next day. And I was sobbing. And my dad said, I guess you know you'll never see your mother alive again. And I said, yeah. Yes, Dad, I do. And there's a long silence.

And then he said to me, I don't know how to cry. Can you teach me how to cry? Well, that was quite a moment. I did teach him how to cry. And she passed a couple of days later. And we would talk every couple of days. How did you teach him how to cry for a man who's never cried and raise you to not cry?

Right. I just, I just want to add this one last thing. And we would talk after she died. And he would say very proudly, I cried yesterday twice. I cried this morning. He was reporting on me. He actually, because he was able to open his heart and grieve, he went through the grief process, I would say brilliantly.

He lived another 22 years, and those were the happiest years I remember for him. What I taught him, I said, you need to recognize when the impulse is coming up, and then not resist it. And let go. Don't control. You're out of control. Go out of control. I said, it's only going to last 10 minutes. You're not going to lose your mind here, but you have to be willing to let go for 10 minutes, 15 minutes. And he was able to follow my guidance. And he did that and he got better and better at it.

And he became, what was fascinating is that as he opened up that grief end of his spectrum, emotional spectrum, the joyous end opened too. So, you know, his emotional bandwidth expanded, both down and up. And he became a happier, really happy person. You're just saying that. It just makes me want to cry, thinking about all the men I know who can't cry, who have suppressed their tears, and what that does when you suppress your tears,

that your inability to express multiple things and inability to feel joy on the other side of that is also suppressed. And so you're just sharing that story so beautifully, by the way, allows us all to see it would have been a very different journey for your father, the grieving process, had he not been able to release in pride. Oh, it would have been very, very different, yeah. Thank you so much not been able to release in pride. Very, very different. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for spending your time here with us. When we come back, acclaimed actor Orlando Bloom shares what the Hoffman process revealed to him about his

authentic self and why it inspired him to move through the world differently. Stay with us. This episode of the Oprah podcast is brought to you in part by Intuit. Are you ready to do the work you were meant to do on your terms? Intuit, the maker of TurboTax and QuickBooks, is expanding its best-in-class network of tax and bookkeeping professionals. They're opening doors where you can build a meaningful tax career, helping clients and yourself prosper. Whether you're looking for full-time remote work, part-time flexibility, or a new chapter entirely, Intuit's expert network gives you the support and tools to grow. You'll learn from credentialed pros, join a culture centered on human connection,

and even access Intuit Academy, a free self-paced training program that helps you unlock new opportunities in the tax and bookkeeping industry. This is your invitation to impact lives and grow with a flexible tax career. Visit Intuit.com slash expert to learn more or apply. That's Intuit.com slash expert. Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I am so glad you all are here. We're talking to Raz N'Grasse, who is one of the leaders at the Hoffman Institute. He's sharing how the Hoffman process helps people uncover and

release negative thought patterns in order to reconnect with their authentic selves. One of the two core principles, as I understand it, of the Hoffman process is a concept called quadrinity, based on the idea that each person embodies four different components. This is what I read about it.

Yes. Can you walk us through what they are? Gladly. So what we're saying is that there are four dimensions of self that are occurring simultaneously and interactively. So first, obviously, is our physical body. Then are emotions that are intellect simultaneously and interactively. So first, obviously, our physical body. Then our emotions and our intellect.

Our emotions, what are you feeling? What is your mood? You know, do you belong? Am I connected here? Am I happy? Am I sad? Am I curious? What's going on? You just feel it. Then there's the intellect. What are going on? You just feel it. Then there's the intellect.

What are your thoughts? Your judgments, your perceptions. So the intellect and the emotions are working together. Emotions will trigger thoughts. Thoughts will trigger emotions. And then there's the spiritual dimension of self. And this is what we call the spiritual dimension. You might think of it as the essential self, or your most authentic part of you.

You know, what I say, we call it spiritual self, but there's nothing to believe in. There's no religiosity implied here. And so those four dimensions of self are working interactively. And the spiritual or essential self is where you are, your primary identity is love. And it feels like, really like myself, most like myself, like coming home.

Oh, it's not like coming, it's a new discovery. It's like, oh yeah, oh yeah, this is me. It's that feeling, not a new discovery. And I heard that the second major component is something called negative love syndrome. What is that? A child is born with no ability to survive at all. And our entire survival mechanism, impulse is our dependency on our parents and that they will take care of us. And we call it the parent-child bond. It's good and what has a continuous flow of

unconditional love, child is comfortable, child is happy, everything is taken care of. But of course no parents are perfect. Even the best of parents. Best of parents can't give you everything you need. They probably are only you know they're 40% of the time even the best ones parents. No, best of parents can't give you everything you need. They probably are only there 40% of the time, even the best ones. But some are actually checked out or worse. And some people experience, unfortunately, abuse in their childhood, physical or emotional. So basically what happens for a child is as long as there's that continuous flow of unconditional love, everything's cool, but when the child perceives that that has

been interrupted, there's a moment of desperation because they have to reestablish that in order to know it's their lifeline to know that I'll be taken care of. So whatever emotion the parent is in at that time, the child will emulate in an attempt to simulate the bond. So instead of the parent recognizing where the child is at, the child has to see where the parent is at and, oh, okay, you're angry at me, daddy. I'm angry too. I'm angry, too. I'm not good enough. Now do you love me again?

So they're always trying to connect to their parents. And when it's negative, they'll connect through negativity. Even though we say we don't want to connect through negativity, even though we don't want to, we do it. This is pre-intellect. We say that later. Yeah. Before we have an intellect. You're doing it even when you don't even know you're doing it. This is pre-intellect. We say that later. Yeah. Before we have an intellect.

Before you've even, you're doing it even when you don't even know you're doing it. You have to do it to survive. And the thing is it works. We survive. So you're saying we have to mimic what our parents are offering in order to survive because you're trying to figure out where they are in what they're offering to you. Right. So, you know, it's forever, been forever, thousands of years, millions of years, we've observed that children emulate and imitate their parents. They walk like their parents. They talk and their gestures and...

What Bob Hoffman uncovered is the motivation of the child to do that. They're doing that to survive. To survive, but they're also, they're motivated to be loved. To be loved, okay. Yeah, and so the motivation of the child is to be loved. And so we never, we hold on tenaciously to whatever is love. Just think of whatever is love in your life and how important that is to you.

And so that's why we hold on to this negativity so tenaciously, why it's so hard to be rid of it. We know what's wrong, but we are, it's there. Okay, so here's the other thing, Ras. So if you didn't get, as I know so many of you and us didn't, if you didn't get the love you needed as a child, those harmful childhood patterns where you're mimicking your parents

or those who were acting as your parents continue to show up in our adult lives. And that's what Hoffman is about, is about how do you break free of that. Right. And it's how you break free of it in the areas that you really can't control and that are very important to us.

The areas of love, how I feel about myself, my love relationship, parenting, you know, my career, my self-image, and all these things, you know, we learned how to parent from our parents. We learned how we learned relationships from the way they related to each other. Well, as I said, I wanted to hear from a few people who've been through the Hoffman process, and one of them is actor Orlando Bloom. You all know Orlando Bloom from his many roles

and from blockbusters like the Pirates of the Caribbean, Lord of the Rings movies. How are you Orlando? Hi. Hi Oprah. Hey Raz. Hey Orlando. Yeah, Orlando, I thought you were one of the, thank you for agreeing to talk to me because

I thought you were one of the best people to speak about this because every time I have talked to you about it, you've been so enthusiastic about what it's been able to do for you and how it's opened up an aperture for you. What was the catalyst for you to go through the program? You know, I think first of all, thank you so much. It's lovely to see you both. And Raz, I love listening to your voice right now because I've listened to it so many times on the app for the Hoffman when I'm like in need of a little centering. So I would say I went to the Hoffman process about 10 years ago and I'd been triggered in a dynamic with my partner that had led me into a pattern of behavior that was very similar to the way in which I would say I had been grown up with my mother,

the way that my mother had loved me and had interacted with me. And I had gotten very confused about how to navigate the dynamics and the feelings that I was having. And I had recalled that this wonderful actor and a friend had mentioned Hoffman and Prossmast to me, like maybe a year previously. And I thought, you know what? I've never done anything like this. Yes, I've

done therapy. Yes, I've explored the world in my mind in numerous ways. But this was the right time for me, I felt. And so I signed up and had, I would say, probably one of the most revealing experiences in my life. And I can only say I wish I'd done it 10 years or 20 years earlier. I was just about to turn 40 and it was really the greatest gift I could give myself and the greatest reveal in my life up until that point. I felt like I'd almost been born again, if that doesn't sound too hippie-dippy. Was it like 10 years of therapy in a week? Honestly, yeah. I refer to it like that.

I feel like what it feels like is, you know, I think people say that between the age of zero to seven we're imprinted on by our parents and unless we understand what that impact has on our lives, what the Hoffman process helps you to do is unpack almost that period, which feels almost impossible, but through visualization work and through a lot of group conversation and more intimate conversation in a smaller group, you get to sort of, and through watching the other people who may have parallels to your life, you get to sort of unpack the trauma or the challenges of your upbringing and come to terms with them and really sort of release them and realize that those patterns of behavior aren't yours. And as Raz was saying, when I felt like what I learned to do was sort of leash in my inner child and my intellect, which both have really great aspects to them, but to use my, keep my body and mind in a space to let my higher, the best version of myself run the show,

as opposed to perhaps it was my intellect that was like being too hard on a situation, or perhaps it was my inner child that was going, I just need a hug right now, and I couldn't express that. And it was really just the greatest gift of sort of learning, I think, to love myself in a way that I hadn't really understood or had a great example of, I would say. Uh-huh.

How are you now, Orlando, living your life differently today than before you went through the process? It's honestly like... It's like I can't unsee that. I think the work is ongoing. It was for me, it was the first step into self care, self love, and an understanding about how I move through the world, some empathy for myself and others, and the ability to... to not be conflicted

or not be overwhelmed by some of the trauma that would come up in relationships or situations and have a deeper understanding, I suppose. You know, Raz started out saying that he did Hoffman himself because he heard himself saying the same things that his father had said to him when he was parenting Mike. And I know you have a 14-year-old son from a previous relationship and a four-year-old daughter with Katie. Has the Hoffman process changed how you see yourself as a dad and how you parent?

Absolutely, 100%. I think my job as a parent now is to allow my children to grow without getting in their way. Like it's sort of like, don't get in the way of anyone else's journey. Don't let anyone get in the way of your journey and just be grateful for the opportunities that are presented to you

and see the challenges of the dynamic that are in front of you as an opportunity for you to grow. And whether that's with my son who is the most beautiful opportunity at times and also just the sweetest soul to not take it personally when he is processing his emotions and at a young age and at that age he's going through a multitude of them, to just allow those things to unfold. It's not, I'm not saying I'm perfect, it's not easy at all. But it is something that without the Hoffman process, I don't think I could say I would have understood. I think I could have been easily triggered. And now, even if I am, and if we come across a situation that we're in conflict

about, I can take a step back, I can let some time pass, and then we can re-engage in a conversation where I'm looking at everything from his perspective whilst trying to lay in my thinking without it overwhelming or getting in the way of the process. So it sounds like the Hoffman process actually made you a better man, a better person. It allowed you to step into that role in a way that enhanced your living process.

It certainly did. I wouldn't say it's... I would say that it's ongoing. So, you know, and I did... And is it what you take from it? Because you say it enhanced you, but it may not do the same thing for another person. I think the way that it's curated is set up to help anybody who decides

to go and it just depends on the individual as to how much work they're willing to do and continue to do and how open they are and what their capacity for this kind of experience is. But it is certainly an incredible opportunity to even just not having your phone for a week, being offline and just being present to yourself and your emotions and your feelings. And there's a remarkable amount of some of the most detailed questions. I think it took about 10 to 12 hours for me to go through this questionnaire, which ultimately becomes your workbook through the week of work and you refer to it. So it's something to do with sort of a lot of diligence and care when you go into it, because it does become go into it because it does become an important tool in the process. But yeah, it is a tool that I think for life, for skills for life in a way. And that's, you know, it's something

that I'm super grateful for. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I do think it's ongoing, you know, it's something that of course, I did a Q2 for a weekend and I actually went with Katie, we did a couples and actually Katie had gone a year off. Q2 is when you go back again, right? For three days. For three days, yeah. Yeah. Three days, sort of refresher, which was remarkable actually and I kind of, after I did the Q2,

I think I did it just a couple of years ago, I was like, I'm going to do this more often. Just whenever I feel like there's a new chapter embarking, I want to kind of do a Q2 to remind myself, to take myself back to that initial feeling. You know, when I send people or recommend people to go, and I've sent and recommended so many people, because it's like, just the feeling of that first the feeling of that first week is something that you'll you'll never have again. It's like and it's and it is a really

beautiful process. I mean, Raz talked about the food but it's almost it's so curated. It's like you get like a Christmas meal, you get a gifting process, you get a birthday, it's like all the things that maybe you didn't get or have in the way that you could appreciate or feel in your youth as a child, you get to receive in that moment, in that week rather, and it's a really beautiful process, yeah, for sure. Well, thank you for joining us and thank you for sharing with us. Thank you so much. Orlando Bloom.

Great to see you Orlando. Appreciate it. When we return, we will hear from a former Marine and presidential security guard who was suffering from intense post-traumatic stress disorder before the Hoffman process helped her turn her life around. That's next. This episode is brought to you in part by 365 by Whole Foods Market. before the Hoffman process helped her turn her life around. That's next. Kits Kettle Chips and Zesty Salsas, the 365 brand brings big flavors with great prices.

The organic mustard is a summer staple at my house. Look for hundreds of yellow low-price signs throughout the store and a little insider's tip, Whole Foods Market releases new sales every Wednesday. With such great prices, may as well add a few pints of ice cream, make it a party and grab those organic cake cones too. Shop in-store or order online for pickup or delivery. There are so many ways to save on summer grilling favorites at Whole Foods Market.

I am so glad you've joined me here on the Oprah Podcast. I'm in the tea house with Raz Iggrasi. He's with the Hoffman Institute. You may have heard about it. He's talking about how so many of us strive to fulfill expectations that others have set for us. And he explains how the Hoffman process can help us identify our true needs and desires.

Raz, you said that many people spend their lives climbing a ladder only to get to the top and realize that the ladder was leaning against the wrong wall. I read that and I went, whoa, I love that analogy. How do we know if we're climbing the wrong ladder and how do you get to the right one? The right ladder, you'll have a hard connection to it. You'll meet people along the way that you love, that are amazing.

It won't always be easy, but somehow you'll stay connected to it. You'll feel it's really yours. You're not trying to put on someone else's guise to get through your life. I'll never forget about 50 years ago, I was reading the Bhagavad Gita and something came, just this line popped out for me, like it was in neon lights. And it said, it's better to live your own life and fail than to live someone else's life and succeed. I was talking to a man I was coaching a man last week, he's a an excess of a billionaire and so he said

to me you know I'm a billionaire And my mother made me become a billionaire. And I did it. And I thought, finally, I've done it. I've made her happy. And I'm a billionaire now. And he said, you know what? I said, no. I still hated her.

Wow. He thought becoming a billionaire was going to make his relationship with his mother great. But she was someone who relentlessly drove him. And he had internalized her. She didn't need to be there anymore. He had internalized.

Because he was doing it himself. Oh, he was relentlessly driving himself. Okay. I hear when people come to the Hoffman process, they often have reached material success or checked all the boxes, college, marriage, home, kids, cars, the things. And then they start to wonder, is that all there is? Yes. And you know that that happened almost every single day that we were taping the Oprah show.

That became my major connection to the audience because every day I would sit and talk to the audience. And around the 90s, women started to stand up and say that to me. They said, I did all the things. I got the degree. I had the kids. I did all the things. But is this it? Is there more? Is that all there is? Well obviously that's not all there is. Obviously.

And there's self-satisfaction. And there's really the feeling of belonging and loving yourself. When we say self-love, this is not some narcissistic thing. This is discovering your essence. Yes. And your essence is love, as I said. I understand you believe that most people are seeking two experiences, the feeling of, of course we all love this feeling of vibrancy,

of being alive, and this feeling also of, I love this word, wholeness. Because I think in all of my interviews and research and reading and seeking, I've seen that so many people are looking for perfection when they should be seeking to be whole. And I remember this interview that I did with Jane Fonda, and she said to me,

I've stopped looking for being perfect. I'm no longer in search of being perfect. I just want to be whole. And I remembered that. I went, whoa, Jane, you're so wise. And, but that's what Hoffman is about, is about bringing wholeness to people. I realized later in life that it's the, the, the, the challenge is not to be perfect, it's to be whole. And I think it takes a little work to become whole.

You've said it exactly. Wholeness is the main result of the Hoffman process, a sense of wholeness. And when one has that wholeness, you connect to the wholeness in life. I'm trying to remember the educator, Parker Palmer, said, there's a hidden wholeness in all things. Yeah. There's a hidden wholeness in all things. And when you discover that wholeness within yourself, and that is when your quadrinity

is integrated and in harmony then you The hidden wholeness and all things is revealed to you and you are at home in the universe Oh, I love that. Well, you know when you first start hearing about the Hoffman Institute for me it's usually from people who have wealth or who have fame or who have Received a lot of attention in their lives. But not everybody who goes there is famous. Most people who go there are not famous. Megan is joining us from Oklahoma and she's a former Marine who also served as a security guard for President George W. Bush. Hi, Megan. And I understand that despite your high-profile career, you were really struggling on the

inside. What was going on and how did Hoffman help you change that? Yes, ma'am. First off, I just want to say thank you for this opportunity and hello to both of you. When I joined the military, it was an escape. I was trying to figure out what I could do with my life, but I unfortunately went through the experience of military sexual trauma.

I was also physically injured when I was in the Marine Corps, so I came out with pretty significant post-traumatic stress disorder. And so you layer that on top of my childhood traumas, and then I'm also a tribal citizen. I'm a Scogi Creek. And so you layer in the historical and generational traumas and all of that. And I was stuck.

I was very stuck. And what happened when you went to Hoffman? So I had just prior to Hoffman, I had learned about meditation, about sensory awareness. So I was familiar with using that as a coping tool. But then I lost my dad to suicide. And that's, I mean, it opened up all of the wounds all over again. I was very much right back in the midst of all the PTSD, flashbacks, nightmares, everything. I was even struggling just to get out to go to the grocery store.

My whole life was just derailed. And so my mentor at the time, she told me about Hoffman. She told me that it would help. And I said, you know what? At the end of the day, what I've been doing, it kind of works, but I need something more. I need to do something to get unstuck. And so Hoffman really allowed me the space that I needed to reconnect to myself and then also put myself back together. But in a way that, as you've already mentioned before, focused on love and on light.

Because before that, I had three emotions and I lived mostly in anger. Anger, angrier, and most angry. Yes. Yes. Pretty much. Wow. When you hear this, Raz, it makes you feel what? It makes you understand how the process, well, you know the process works. It makes me happy because that's why we're doing this. We're doing this so that people can be free. because that's why we're doing this. We're doing this so that people can be free. They can be more free, open, loving, and spontaneous. That's the rich life. And everyone, you know, it's not by my standard,

it's by your standard. And you can see, I can see by the smile on your face, and I can feel the gratitude in your heart that you are, you're living, doesn't mean your life is perfect, but you're living the life, you're living your life, not someone else's life. And you've said, one of the things I love that you've said is that the goal is, your goal is to help people to become more of who they are.

Who they are instead of who they aren't. Right. And you know, taking off on what we've just heard here is that, you know, in her desperation she tried putting on the uniform of a Marine to be all right, to be tough, to be strong enough to withstand all the things that were hurting her, but it only got worse. It only got worse. And that is what happens when people put on someone else's identity or put on the identity

that they think they're supposed to have instead of being able to be fully whole in themselves. And it's the false promise, perhaps of often, I would say, of our military is that it takes young people who are trying to figure out, I mean, what does it mean to be an adult? And there's the idea that if I become a Marine, I'll be an adult, or if I become a banker, or if I become an entrepreneur, or if I become this or whatever.

And so, so much of what passes for adult life and accomplishment, in her case, it was a negative experience. But a lot of it is people's success. So many people are successful and not happy. Absolutely. Having the symbols of success is not enough. Have you become more whole, Megan, as a part of this process? I definitely believe so. I have had some pretty major career changes as a result. I went and I got my master's in social work.

I'm now working on my PhD in psychology, and my focus is to create a wellness model for marginalized communities like tribal nations. Wonderful. Especially for our veterans. Well thank you. Thank you for joining us today. I appreciate you all taking the time out of your busy day to be here with me.

When we come back, Raz and Grassi with the Hoffman Institute explains how the Hoffman process helps people find a sense of meaning and wholeness in a society that often seems to care only about the outward signs of success. This episode of the Oprah podcast is brought to you in part by Intuit. Are you ready to do the work you were meant to do on your terms? Intuit, the maker of TurboTax and QuickBooks, is expanding its best-in-class network of tax and bookkeeping professionals.

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Thank you for staying with us. I'm talking with Raz and Grassy with the Hoffman Institute about how we're often so focused on the symbols of success. We lose sight of what we really need to live a meaningful life. You know, Raz says, Raz, the Hoffman process is over $6,000 a week, and many people, as we know, cannot afford that.

$6,000 is a lot of money when you're just trying to make it, and even though you might want to be whole. So what do you have there for people who can't? We have a very robust scholarship program. I believe Megan was a recipient of one of our scholarships. We like to have people who are receiving scholarships to have some skin in the game. So we want them to pay what they can.

But we offer this for, in fact, Megan, I think, came in through our veterans program. And, but also there's just these people for, in fact, Megan, I think, came in through our veterans program. But also there's just these people who are holding the fabric of society together, our first responders, teachers, firemen, they don't earn the kind of money that can allow them to, or people who are in non-profit organizations, they're doing great things for the culture, for the society, but they're not earning the kind of money and it's not only the Money, it's the time to take a week away. I hear many people have said to you, especially, you know businessmen

I don't you know Wealthy guys. I don't have time to do this. I don't have time to do that and you say what to them? Well, actually I say you're you're one of the people who has control of your life. I say you're not a single mother of two kids waiting on tables in Omaha, Nebraska. Right. You are in charge, and you have control of your life. And what you need to do is prioritize yourself.

Instead of squeezing you out of your life, put yourself in the middle of your life. And organize yourself so that you can be the person you really want to be, who you really are. Yeah. And I just want to say, I love that phrase that you're there helping people to become really who they are instead of who they aren't. Because I think one of the greatest compliments I ever received was a reporter who had interviewed

me back in the 90s and then In 2010 we did another interview and she said, you know, I remember you from This interview we did in Washington and she said You're the same but you just become more of yourself beautiful and I said to her I I'm gonna put that on my tombstone if I had a tombstone I'm gonna be cremated So therefore but but that you've become more of yourself I think that's what we're all here to do is to become more alive more vibrant more fully

Who we were meant to be and I read that globally 135,000 people have gone through this Hoffman process and they're currently what 13 centers worldwide What would you say is the secret behind? the the the the program success Well, we don't do any marketing So it's all word of mouth and the secret behind the success is that the program works Mm-hmm. I think as adults we get to that point many of us where we say I where we say, I need to do some serious work on myself. I need, there's something going on here.

I need to work on myself. And when people reach that point, what we want is when they start asking around, looking around, that Hoffman will come up as a really credible alternative. Well, you've spent 30 years guiding people through a process that, where they experience. And as I said at the beginning of this, you confront your demons, you're trying to heal from some of the most difficult challenges in life, all the challenges that keep coming your way in crises.

I often ask this question on the podcast, what do you, I heard a Stanford professor say this, that he was planning on doing a course at Stanford on this, and that is, what is your definition of a well-lived life? What is a well-lived life? Wow, a well-lived life, I'm in the middle of living my life. Trying to do a good job. Well-lived life, I think, is one in which your heart is open

and you have compassion for yourself, inner compassion, for others, that you're, you know, everyone's hurting. Everyone's got something. And where you are able to navigate the mysteries of life rather than trying to get the answer. There are these mysteries in life. Parenting, love, sex, relationships, my career, expressing myself into the world. And we want to be competent at navigating those mysteries rather than finding the answer,

because there is no answer, there is no the answer. And when you navigate the mystery of life, I like to say that your spiritual self, this essential and authentic deepest part of you, is resonating in harmony with the universe. I mentioned earlier that when you just come into your own wholeness, you're connected to the wholeness of life.

And so you have that feeling that the force is with you. Right? Yeah. This is my day. Wow, things are falling into place. And often we see it, I like to watch, you know, San Francisco barriers got all these athletic teams. And I like to watch that. I like to watch golf. I like to watch San Francisco barriers, got all these athletic teams. And I like to watch that, I like to watch golf,

I like to play golf. And sometimes you just see them, they're in the zone. The whole team is in the zone. Or I've been in the zone in different things. Well, I just wanna say it's possible to live in the zone a lot more. And that's a very's possible to live in the zone a lot more. And that's a very rewarding place to live and to help others find their zone and to

live it, to be joyful and contribute to, contribute to the world, contribute to the other people. Well, that's why you were here. That's why you were here. Because as a seeker, you started out by saying that you've been a seeker your whole life. And I know that's what seekers do. I'm a seeker too. Seekers want other people to have the same kind of fulfillment that they have in life and I haven't been to the Hoffman Institute. As I said to you all at the beginning of this, I know so many people who have been and other people who now are going. I've even sponsored other people to go.

But I was just curious just to see who is behind this thing that I keep hearing about. I thank you. I thank you. I thank you for raising the consciousness in the world. Thank you, Ras, for being here, giving us a glimpse into the Hoffman Process. And thank you to my guests, Orlando Bloom and Megan, for joining us. For more information on the Hoffman Process, you go to hoffmaninstitute.org. It's all there. And I want to thank you all for joining me for this interesting conversation. I don't think there's anything more important, actually, than realizing the fullest potential

of your own life. And I often say this, that I know that we're all here seeking the same thing, that we all want the same thing, and that is to be able to live out the truest, highest expression of ourselves as human being. And that's the kind of thing that we like to talk about on this podcast. So I'll see you next week.

Go well, everybody. You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.