The Oprah Podcast - Oprah with Jeremy Allen White & Scott Cooper on Creating Springsteen: Deliver Me from Nowhere

Episode Date: December 23, 2025

Oprah sits down with actor Jeremy Allen White and writer-director Scott Cooper for a fascinating conversation about their stirring new film, Springsteen: Deliver Me from Nowhere. The film is a revelatory look at Bruce Springsteen during a personal and professional crossroads; the film explores the mental health struggles and creative reckoning behind the making of his deeply personal album Nebraska. Oprah calls White’s Golden Globe–nominated performance “mesmerizing” and praises Cooper for “elevating quiet struggle into cinematic poetry,” describing the film as “a gift” and a meditation on “what it means to be human.” The film also stars Jeremy Strong, Odessa Young, Stephen Graham, Johnny Cannizzaro, Gaby Hoffman, Paul Walter Hauser and Grace Gummer. SEE THE FILM! Springsteen: Deliver Me from Nowhere, starring Golden Globe nominee Jeremy Allen White, written and directed by Scott Cooper, and distributed by 20th Century Studios is now available on Demand. https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/springsteen-deliver-me-from-nowhere/umc.cmc.44ij3fzlajh43wxngtyxd6ioi 00:00:00 - Oprah introduces the movie Springsteen: Deliver Me From Nowhere  00:03:22 - Oprah, Jeremy Allen White and Scott Cooper at Santa Barbara Film Festival 00:05:00 - Jeremy on getting cast as Bruce Springsteen  00:06:30 - Scott on telling Springsteen’s story 00:08:35 - Scott on asking Bruce to make this film  00:12:00 - How Jeremy prepared to become Bruce Springsteen 00:14:50 - Jeremy on learning guitar  00:18:20 - Scott on using black and white photography for flashbacks  00:25:27 - How playing Springsteen changed Jeremy  00:28:10 - Scott on how making the movie changed him  00:29:10 - Springsteen and mental illness Follow Oprah Winfrey on Social: https://www.instagram.com/oprahpodcast/ https://www.facebook.com/oprahwinfrey/ Listen to the full podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/0tEVrfNp92a7lbjDe6GMLI https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-oprah-podcast/id1782960381 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So many people would come to me and say, Scott, my father never told me he loved me. My father never told me he was proud of me. I, too, suffer mental illness. And thank you for showing me that if someone like Bruce Springsteen can struggle and get the help he needs, so can I. Hi there, and thank you for joining me here on the Oprah Podcast. Yes. On this episode, I'm talking with Jeremy Allen White. Now, he is one of the most talented actors of his generation, known for his role in Shameless, and we all,

don't you just love him and the bear? He's won three Golden Globes and two Emmys for that role already, and was just nominated for yet another Golden Globe for his portrayal of Bruce Springsteen. Earlier this year, I saw Springsteen deliver me from nowhere, and I have to say that it's exquisite movie-making, and really a work of art. It's a kind of movie that stays with you

and keeps you thinking about it long after, as I still am. And it's an extraordinary look inside the life of Bruce Springsteen. I mean, so many people did not know that he has been through what millions of others have suffered with depression. And so this film is an exploration of his time when he was creating the album Nebraska. And recently, at the Santa Barbara Film Festival, we screened that movie, and afterwards, I sat down with Jeremy Allen White, and the film's incredibly talented director, Scott Cooper.

But first, let me just tell you a little bit about this movie. Springsteen, Deliver Me from Nowhere, is based on the book by Warren Zanes, and takes place in early 1980s, New Jersey, where Bruce Springsteen's, started his career. And in this film, it captures him right on the cusp of superstardom as he is writing and recording his stripped-down album, Nebraska. You want to know why I did what I did. Sir, I guess it's just a meanness in this world. as Springsteen. During a chapter of his life, when he was going through a lot of inner turmoil, when he's trying to reconcile the pressure of success with the crushing weight of his relationship with his troubled father, who is played so hauntingly by Stephen Graham.

What are you on? Just to hear your voice? In another captivating performance, Jeremy Strong is just brilliant as Springsteen's dedicated manager and producer John Landau. This is really a love story between these two men in terms of friendship, support, and care for another human being. Hey, this is all too much. Let's just pull back. Say the word. Ah, I'm okay. Just trying to find some real and all the noise. Both the film and its transformative performances are generating lots of Oscar buzz. Nebraska, Mansion, what they're doing with Atlantic City, it's just, it's not working, right?

And these songs, you know, they matter to me. So, everybody just saw it. Is this your first time seeing it? Everybody, first time? First time seeing it? Their first time seeing it. I saw it for the first time at the Telluride Film Festival. film festival and I was just blown away. I remember the woman sitting next to me saying at the end of it, does this mean I have to forgive my father? Yes, yes. I go yes. It's a sign. It's a sign. So let me ask you, when you saw it for the first time after doing all of the work and the preparation, how did it leave your spirit or how did it settle in your spirit the first time? I felt so relieved the first time I saw the film.

You know, I had about six months of preparation, and it really took over. It was all I thought about for six months, and I knew the responsibility, you know, I knew the weight. I thought very often about. Well, first of all, tell us, how did you get the call? And what does that call sound like?

Who's on the other end of that call? I guess what was it? I mean, Scott and I had gotten together to speak about what I didn't know, but I'd been a fan of Scots for a long time. But you knew it was him? You wanted it to be him, yeah. I did, yeah. We were already thinking about that at the time?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. Okay, but he didn't share that with me. So we had a great lunch. He was just checking you out. He was, exactly, yes. And I just said, I hope we can do something together. And then I think a couple months later, I got a call from my agent first to listen to the record, to listen to Nebraska. And then I could sort of piece together what was coming.

But I listened to the record. I'd heard it before, but not for maybe a decade or so. I was very affected by it. And then Scott and I spoke, and he sent me the script. I was really excited at the idea of portraying Bruce, but also very nervous, again, about just like those shoes, feeling those shoes, and what a presence he had.

but I liked the inn. I liked the story that Scott wanted to tell. I liked how specific it was. I thought there was an opportunity to do something, you know, very special there. Hey, the boys up there? Let's burn this place down, John. So you weren't scarred at all?

No, of course I was. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I took a couple days to think about it, because I wanted to make sure that I was the person to do it. I don't get every script and trust that I'm the one every time. I wanted to

make sure, and that took some time, and I think Scott understood, you know, and wanted me to be sure as well and respected that. So it took some time to say yes. Well, Scott is one of those directors who

elevates quiet struggle into cinematic poetry. You have done it again. You've done it again. You've done it again. And, you know, you could have told a different kind of story about Bruce Springsteen. I mean, everybody, I think, was expecting the born in the USA biopic kind of story. Why did you choose this version? Yeah, that probably would have made things a lot easier.

Born the USA or the born-to-run story. And people had, quite frankly, asked Bruce if they could tell that version of his story since, I think, 1986. and he and John Landau have always said no. When I was reading Bruce's autobiography, a wonderful autobiography, born to run, most every chapter is quite lengthy. But the chapter on the making of Nebraska is about one page, maybe one and a half pages long. And when I got to know Bruce, I asked him why that was, and he said, well, it was just too painful. So then in reading Warren Zanes' book delivered me from nowhere, I got a sense. and, of course, having seen Bruce's Broadway show,

getting a sense of what really motivated Bruce to write Nebraska. And Nebraska is one of my favorite albums, certainly Bruce Springsteen albums, but one of my favorite albums in general. And it kind of was introduced to me to my father, to whom I've dedicated the movie, and that album came to me at just the right time of my life, kind of a disaffected teenager, wasn't quite sure of his place in the world,

and those characters and the starkness and the power of that album really spoke to me. So when I read Warren's book about the making of Nebraska, and it was a very specific time in Bruce's life, a very intimate time in Bruce's life, the most painful chapter in Bruce's life, when he was at his personal lowest but at his creative best, because as you've seen, he's not only writing Nebraska, he was also writing the songs that would become born in the USA.

So Bruce was really probably writing some of the best material he's ever written. So all of that is what motivated me to ask Bruce if I could tell this story. And I think now that Bruce has, I just told Oprah this backstage, Oprah backstage, that Bruce has now seen the movie 13 times and asked me yesterday if he could see it again. If he could get a link to it. If you could get a link to watch it at his house in Colts Neck, New Jersey. And so I knew the story meant a great deal to him. Bruce is a cinephile.

He'd seen my movies, some of them several times. I think he maybe felt comfortable that I could tell this very personal and painful chapter in his life. And here we are in Santa Barbara. So when he saw it for the first time, tell our audience. what he said when he saw it for the first time. Yeah, he asked me to watch it with him, which I absolutely wasn't going to do. Yeah.

Because, you know, John Landau, played by Jeremy Strong, said to me, he said, you know, Scott, this is the first time in 50 years that Bruce has handed the wheel over to anybody else. I mean, he's nicknamed the boss for a reason. Right. And the last thing I wanted was to watch Bruce Springsteen out of the side of my eye watching the most personal chapter in his life. personal chapter in his life. So I'm pacing outside the Robert A. Iger building in, you know,

in New York City while Bruce and Landau are watching it. Bruce emerges. Was it, was it Bruce in Landau and wasn't his sister in there too? Not the first time. The first time was just them. He's since has screened it for his sons and his daughter and his sisters and the East Street band, lots of friends. But that first time, those two hours felt like four. And I was pacing around lower Manhattan and and he came out and he was visibly moved he'd been crying and um he kissed me on the cheek and and he said it's better than i could have ever hoped oh at that point i was just like oh my god oh that's great yeah he told me about the time that he watched with his sister tell tell tell everyone what he said he watched it with both sisters pam his younger sister and his

his older sister virginia whom you see in the movie very briefly and he said that they both each grabbed a hand and they were crying midway through the film and then when the film ended and they were all embracing Virginia said Bruce isn't it wonderful that we have this? Yeah. Even though it's incredibly painful

and the relationship with his father was so difficult and not much easier for his sisters so for them to feel that way about the movie really means more than I can put into words. Daddy? Mom said it's time to go home. They love sight. It feels like you immersed yourself in this character.

It feels like you, you know, presented yourself fully embodied as Bruce. And we want to know what the process for that was. Did you listen to more than Nebraska? Did you watch Bruce's tapes? Did you, how'd you get that Jersey soul swagger? Yeah, I mean, I think in the beginning, all I did was try to take in as much information as I could. I mean, it was interviews with him, it was concert footage, it was his discography. his book was obviously very helpful.

I listened to his memoir over and over and over again for the months in preparation. Warren's book. Warren'sane. Yeah, Warren Zane's book. Yeah, deliver me from nowhere. And yeah, in the beginning,

I was just, you know, I had been aware of Bruce Springsteen, an admirer of Bruce Springsteen, but I wasn't incredibly knowledgeable. So I was just trying to take in as much as I could and kind of crossing my fingers that it was all kind of getting into me somehow. You know, I didn't take notes.

I didn't have like any real structure other than trying to take it in as much as possible in those six months. And then as we got closer and closer to filming, my focus kind of narrowed. And it all sort of shifted. And I started trying to, I guess, forget about Bruce Springsteen a little bit and approach the role as just that, the role of a young man, a musician, coming home after a long tour, and I think that's where I found my confidence

is kind of trying to humanize the sort of icon. Okay, we can't let them make it something that it's not, right? No singles, no tours, no press. We have to let this album breathe on its own. We might need to give the label something to work with it. I don't even want to be on the cover, okay? I don't want to have to explain it. I don't even know if I can, all right?

We're going to take a break. Next, I want to know what was more challenging for Jeremy acting or singing like the legendary Bruce Springsteen. Can you imagine somebody calls and wants you to portray Bruce Springsteen? Be right back. This episode of the Oprah podcast is brought to you by the Cancer Guard Test from the makers of the Coligard test. Nearly 70% of cancers diagnosed have no routine screening,

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not recommended for individuals who have had cancer in the last three years or are pregnant, and it is not a replacement for recommended screening. The cancer card test may be HSA FSA eligible. Welcome back to my conversation with actor Jeremy Allen White, who's getting a lot of oscarus for his authentic and mesmerizing, powerful portrayal of an American icon in Springsteen. Deliver me from nowhere. Were you more challenged by the singing or the acting? I think the singing, obviously, was a skill that I didn't have already.

Did you even play the guitar? I never played the guitar and I'd never sang before. You never played the guitar before. No, no, no, no. So I was learning. You had to learn to play the guitar. Well, yeah, and I got together with... Well, yeah, okay.

And the harmonica and sing. Well, I didn't learn. That's the thing. I got together with J.D. Simo, who's a wonderful guitarist at in Nashville, and I met with him five times a week for six months in preparation. The first time we met, I told him, you know, I'm so excited to learn how to play the guitar.

and he said we don't have time to learn how to play the guitar I'm going to teach you how to play these four Bruce Springsteen songs so I still can't really say I know how to play the guitar But you know how to play those songs on the guitar. I learned how to play those songs and I learned how to hold that guitar confidently enough

yeah Together we live with the sadness I love you and all the madness in my son Whoa someday girl I don't know where We're going to get through that place.

We really want to go. We're walking the sun. Patilet, trams like us, baby we were born to run. Say, trams like us, baby we were born to run. Oh, trans like us. Maybe we were born to run. Did you work with a voice coach? Yeah, yeah.

I worked with a wonderful coach, Eric Vitro. a vocal coach and who helps a lot of these actors like me prepare to do roles like this where they have to sing. But finding Bruce's speaking voice was something that, I mean, I listened to him so often. So I think I understood the accent, but the tone of his voice really came to me. I mean, I lost my voice recording born in the USA about a week before we started filming. And I didn't know if I was going to get it back in time for our kind of day one. I got it back, but when it came back, it was so gravelly. It was so kind of like lost.

I loved the sound of it. And so I started screaming into my pillow every night before bed to sort of try to try to recapture that. And then that same vocal coach, Eric Vitro, found out I had been screaming into my pillow, and he said, you have to stop that immediately. Wow. That's not allowed.

So, you know, one of the things that Bruce said to me at the end of the, when I saw, saw it and telluride. He said, because we were also moved by that. I know you were to that final scene, that final scene with the son and with Stephen Graham. And Bruce said, every word of that is true. Come here.

Sit on my lap. Huh? Come on. Come on. I'm soaking wet, Pop, man. I'm 32 years old. I'm 32 years old. Did you and Stephen Graham rehearse that a lot?

It felt to us watching that there was this spontaneous moment. We know that there had to be rehearsal, but... Yeah, I mean, no, there wasn't much rehearsal to be... Yeah, I don't really rehearsing any of the actors ever. Yeah, no. But by design, I mean, I remember reading that scene. I knew that that was something that happened with Bruce and his father, but I remember reading it in the script and going, are we going to be able to do this in a way that doesn't seem

too uncomfortable or silly? Like, is it going to be grounded in something real? And I have to credit Scott and Stephen. I mean, there was no way that that scene could have been taken any other way once we entered that room that day, which was a very heavy day in filming. It was towards the end of filming. We had a really big day. Stephen and I did. didn't discuss it even really. I think we just knew what was necessary and we found it naturally and in the moment, you know. Talk about Scott the decision to utilize black and white photography in the flashback scenes and how that contrast with the color photography and what we can learn about Bruce's

memories and relationship with his past through that. Well, as I was writing the screenplay, I spent a great deal of time with Bruce on tour. or when he was off tour. And he said to me, Scott, I remember that time in my life only in black and white. And he would send me lots of images of him with his father and his sisters.

It's seven, eight years old. Of course, they were all in black and white. That's why the cover of Nebraska is in black and white. All of the liner notes, images are black and white. The Night of the Hunter. The film that his father took him to

was in black and white. It seemed to me to be the right choice, and Bruce thanked me for that. He said, because that's how I always accessed those, you know, troubling moments in my life. So to contrast that to the 1982, it's handheld, a little more garage rock approach, because Bruce is unsettled, and he's in disequilibrium. And the black and white is very formalist and on the dolly. And I told the story in an almost nostalgic. way, even though the nostalgia is a father who's incredibly cold and callous toward his son.

Except, especially that first moment when he walks into the bar. Yes. Yes. Yeah, and Bruce said on too many occasions throughout his life, he had to extricate his father from a bar. And when he does it in Los Angeles, in Chinatown, when his father has just been released from L.A. County jail, the role. are reversed. And his father, who is suffering from schizophrenia, undiagnosed, doesn't have his

medication. He's incredibly vulnerable. He's almost a child. Bruce said, I would always find my father at the end of the bar. For whatever reason, he said, but every time I would go, that's where he was. So it kind of mirrors the opening of that shot. But I remember specifically, just to speak on the last moment where he sits on his father's lap. I said, Bruce, what was the feeling of that? And it's a little bit like Jeremy described. He said, it was uncomfortable, it's awkward, and at times a little bit subconsciously funny,

and then it became tender. So it's all the same things that you see in the scene. And when you have actors that are as good as Jeremy White and Stephen Graham, who really know how to take the subtext of my screenplay, or anybody's screenplay, and really find those very genuine and honest moments, then you just have to get out of the way. You know, I drive a bus these days.

Yeah, I know you do. But not that ain't no work today. There are so many genuine and honest moments. I remember Jeremy Strong telling me that he called Bruce and said, what is the song you would play for somebody if you wanted to save their life? And Bruce thought about it and then called him back and said, Sam Cook.

And then Jeremy came to you and said... Yeah, so the scene where just after Bruce has broken up with his love interest, Faye, and we find him, bags are packed, he's in the bedroom, in his white t-shirt, looking incredibly despairing, and Landau finds him. in there. I had scripted a scene where they sit on the end of the bed and they talk about,

in a very subtextual way, what the future holds. And beautiful scene, nice scene. It felt like it really captured what I wanted to. And then Jeremy Strong called me the night before and said, I have an idea. Are you open to this? And I was like, I'm always open to ideas. So the next day, He has the props department put the boom box out in the bedroom. Let's just listen. Okay. If I walk in the pathway of duty. I don't think you.

you had any idea really what was coming, right? He said, I'm going to try something. Do you want to know what it is? And I said, no. And he said, okay, yeah. Yeah. And I remember from my first film, Crazy Heart, that starred Jeff Bridges, I remember that Jeff said to me, Scott,

you'll never know where you'll find inspiration. It's like sometimes I'll be at craft service, and somebody will give me a note, and I'll take that into a scene. So Jeremy plays the scene with, with Jeremy White, Jeremy Strong. And it's beautiful. Yes.

And we thought that it was... And then you chose to use the flashbacks with it. Yes, of young Bruce dancing with his mother. With his mom. It was nice to see the clothes of the day. It was nice to see these two men who I know. It was nice to see these two men who, their bond was of music.

I mean, that is how they got close in the beginning. They would listen to music and talk about music. And I think it was nice to have, yeah, a moment of them enjoying music that wasn't Bruce's and Bruce trying to capture his sound and protect his sound. All that stuff is important to this story, obviously. But I think it was really nice to see these two men enjoy a song together and to see the closeness through that music.

is the central love story of the movie. Yeah, yeah. And it's that way now. Landau's support and love for him. I was just with them over the weekend, both of them together. And it's a remarkable relationship that's kind of unrivaled in all of rock and roll or any kind of genre of music. Still, still. Yeah, still.

Yeah. Last person, as Bruce goes on stage, they put their heads together and kind of have a wordless moment. Bruce goes out for three and a half hours. Bruce comes back soaking wet. First person that he embraces is John Landown. Still, to this day. 51 years. Yeah, yeah.

You know, I still think it's worth considering, like, change the scene. Maybe he plays in the city or something. Hey, dog. It's hard to pry me out of my small town, Johnny. All right. After a break, the powerful reaction that moviegoers are having to the film, we'll be right back. We're back with my conversation with actor. Jeremy Allen White and writer-director Scott Cooper about their film, Springsteen,

Deliver Me from Nowhere. Every role that actually has an impact on the audience, I think also has an impact on the person who's offering that to the audience. And I want to know what impact has playing Bruce Springsteen, immersing yourself into his life during this particular time. How has that opened you, expanded you? expanded you, changed you, evolved you. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I felt like I was,

I had a lot of protection in Scott, Jeremy Strong, the whole team, but I felt like I was really stepping out on a limb and there was a bit of a leap of faith involved in this process. And I feel that that is really what Bruce is doing at this period in his career and in his life and with this record. And I think what I found throughout the process and what I found in getting to know Bruce and getting to know his world is the value of trust, the value of trusting yourself, but also trusting those around you, finding those angels in your life. I mean, this film so much to me is just as much about these angels, John Landau, Fay, these characters that have held up a mirror to Bruce. period in his life, have listened to Bruce in his life. It's trusting the life that you've built

for yourself and leaning on those around you. And I'd like to think, and I hope that I've moved forward in this life after taking this role more available and more trusting of the world around me. After playing that. Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful. You know what's wonderful that we're all here in support of the Santa Barbara films that have moved so many of us over the years and now this one. And what's really remarkable to me is how you as an artist and you as an artist use this to stir the world. Because as I was saying, the woman next to me after watching said, the woman said, this means

I have to forgive my father and another woman said, I had no idea. that Bruce has been through the same thing that I've been through. I had no idea. Did you have an idea? I go, yeah, I had an idea. I read the book. And I also saw the play three times. But I think this movie feels like a gift to me

because it is not just in service to the art of the story of Nebraska and Bruce, but it's also in service to what it means to be human and what it means to feel. alone and what it means to be lost and what it means, all those things. Tell us what doing this movie has, how it has served you. Well, since that first screening in Telluride, the great thing about the Tell You Ride film festival is you're there for four days, movie screens four or five times, and you really

interact with the audience, the film going community. And so many people would come to me and say, Scott, my father never told me he loved me. My father never told me he was proud of me. I too suffer mental illness and thank you for showing me that if someone like Bruce Springsteen can struggle and get the help he needs, so can I,

those sort of things. Having psychiatrists come to me that weekend and saying, it's got hopefully people outside of the Telluride community can see the film because, you know, so often men don't give voice to their pain, don't know how to get the help. Very often people don't have the means to get help.

And I think when people see that someone who outwardly has everything, Bruce Springsteen, fame, adoration, myth, legend, iconography, and see that he struggled as well, that depression, mental illness doesn't discriminate through class, through color, race, ethnicity. Position, power, all of it,

yes. No. No. And I said to Jeremy, I said, my hope is that the first 10 minutes into the film, people will forget that we're making a movie about Bruce Springsteen. It just happens to be a man who is renting a house in Coltsneck, New Jersey, and who's writing about wrestling with how honest he can be in his work.

Yeah. And I have to say that I didn't realize it was as topical or as relatable as it is, because I've now screened the film all over the world. And whether I'm in Poland or Italy or Berlin, New York City, people all come to me after the screenings and say the same thing. Thank you. Or, Scott, I have suffered this. One guy said to me,

Scott, I came down the, I didn't come down the steps with a baseball bat at eight years old. I came down the steps with a gun that once I pulled the trigger, I realized it had no ammunition in it. And 60 years later, I finally gotten the help that I needed. So the movie has touched people in ways that I never expected it to when I first set down to make the movie. it's made me realize how fragile we all are at all different times in our lives and how we all have challenging childhoods and I have to say I you know as a father of two girls you know you think you're a great father but you can always be more available or kinder or even when you think you're being the dad of the year yeah right

So it's really made me reevaluate how I interact with family and loved ones and friends. And it's also made me think about how Bruce took a massive creative risk. I mean, he was on an ascendant star and his audience and the record label, his fan base, all thought that Bruce was going to continue by giving them rock and roll hits. but instead he gave them his most personal and enduring and difficult album of his career. And it just goes to show you that if you have the right people around you, like John Landau, who will protect you when you take these creative risks,

that's the difference between being a full and rich artist and one who isn't, quite frankly. Well, thank you for giving us such a full and rich experience. Thank you, Oprah. And deliver me from nowhere. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Jeremy. Thanks for doing this.

Thank you. Thank you, Scott. There's a place out on the edge of the town's earth, rising above the factories and the field. Ever since I was a child, I can remember that mentioned on an ancient all the children. You can subscribe to the Oprah podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.