The Overshare with Gemma Atkinson - TOUGH TIMES: Coping with Grief

Episode Date: October 19, 2023

Gemma lost her Dad at a very young age and has often wondered if we all cope with Grief in the same way. In this episode of The Overshare we hear from people who have all suffered very different kinds of grief and are at a point where they can now share the toughest times of their life. Thank you so much to our guests in this Overshare for opening up to help others.

Hello, it's me, Gemma Atkinson here. Welcome to another Overshare. If you're new to this, it's our safe place to chat openly in a very honest, warts and all way. Now, when myself and producer Matt got this project off the ground, right from the offset, there was one thing I always wanted to talk about. It's something extremely close to my heart and something I've not heard discussed enough and that is grief. Something we all go through, something we all experience but it's never discussed and I've always wondered how people cope with loss if they cope the way that I do. Do any of us really cope at all? Is there something they're doing that I'm not?

Am I doing something that they're not perhaps? So this is our overshare on grief and coping. Coping with loss, coping with the days that follow and how life changes. So as a warning it's quite a bit heavier than our other overshares and it's not for young ones' ears. As always, we have an expert on the podcast with us, and joining us for this Overshare is expert Abby Blaise, who firsthand can relate to a lot of the stories here today. Abby, you, unfortunately, sadly, like I lost my dad, you lost your mum, didn't you? So you're kind of obviously an expert in the field,

but from a personal point of view, going to be there for the storytellers today as well. Yeah, I lost my mum to cancer back in 2017. She was like my best friend, you know, the person I would go to for advice and stuff. I didn't think that that's what would happen in my life and that this, you know, that I wouldn't have a future with a mum as a part of that.

Hopefully this episode helps you in some way. Coming up in this episode of The Overshare. You've just got to get on with it but there are days where I just I could just lay in bed and not get up. As my daughter aged it would also signify how many years my mum had been gone. I was like how do I separate the two? I'm not religious in any way he said but if there's anything out there he says you know take me and make him better. And my sister said, oh, dad, don't be so daft, don't be silly. The odds were against him. And three months later, my dad dropped dead of a heart attack. I was so scared that I'd get too attached or bonded to this baby and then I might not have a baby to bring

home. Right. Three things, three good memories about your mum, go. I want three good memories because my brain was just going down this, oh, her face when she was dying, you know, like the worst possible thoughts that you could have. At 34, I just didn't think that I would, you know, my dad would be leaning on me so much. Okay, so first of all, joining us on The Overshare, we have Andrea. Andrea, welcome to The Overshare. You've been through two life-changing, deeply traumatic events in the past few years, haven't you? Tell us what's happened.

I have, yeah. In April 2020, I lost my mum to COVID and other things. And my little boy was born on the 29th of July 2020. And then he passed away on the 28th of August 2021. Oh, my gosh. So your mother and your son within two years. Oh, Andrea, how do you even begin to navigate anything like that? I don't know.

I've got other children that have grown up now, apart from Sean, who still lives with us. I don't know I've got other children that have grown up now apart from Sean who still lives with us I don't know you've just got to try and carry on haven't you you know we were saying earlier because my dad passed away I was 17 when my dad passed away and it was very sudden and I had a big sit well I have a big sister Nina she's seven years older than me so I relied on my sister and my mum to get me through they were the matriarchs of the family they were the older ones and it's only now being a mum myself I realize when something happens as a parent if you've got other children you like you say you kind of have no choice because you're the matriarch you're the one who they depend on and they're

going to ask the questions too and and so it's kind of like you're wearing a mask all day because you want to explain to them where you know their little brother and the nana or grandma is but at the same time you're dealing with so much it's it's a to take on, isn't it, Abby? It's horrible. Yeah, and it's your role shifts, I think. You know, for me, because I lost my mum, my role shifted in the family and it's like you have to take on this new sort of, like you haven't applied for the job,

you don't want the job, but you've got to do the job kind of situation. Yeah. What was your support network like andrea because i think having a support network is pretty key um my husband he didn't talk about jacob um and after my mom nobody they're so different how male and female deal with things you see absolutely well I'm saying male and female I think it's just a person because in our family Gorka's the sensitive one he he speaks about everything does he yeah I'm very much like Andrea's partner whereby I think if I don't

mention it it didn't happen and it's fine yeah brush it under the carpet kind of yeah and I've realized I've realized in the long run it doesn't help anyone. It certainly doesn't help me. And it kind of, because I'm sure sometimes for you, Andrea, especially at the start, you probably saw it as they don't care. It's kind of, it's the complete opposite. We care so much, we'd rather not address it because addressing it is admitting it's happened.

And then you have to handle it. Yeah, that's, I'm assuming, what your partner is dealing with, especially with it being a son as well. Does that help, not talking about it? I think it's better to talk these things out. What I actually found really, really helpful and surprised me was I was in a Facebook support group. And that might sound ridiculous but the people in there who'd been through the same thing as me I found them tremendously helpful and supportive so that was kind of my route of being able to talk about it with someone who maybe like

understood it. My auntie helped me with Jacob with losing, because she lost her son, was it 11 years ago? So my cousin, 11 years ago. So she knows what it feels like. Although Kevin was grown up, she had some sort of idea. It's like the wrong order of things. Like when my grandma was still alive when my dad passed, and I remember she said to me, no parent should bury the child. She was like, it's the complete wrong order.

And my grandma, she was Scottish, very stubborn Scottish lady. And again, I never saw her cry over my dad. Even at the funeral, she didn't cry. She was very much, me and my sister drove around to tell her that my dad had passed. And she just sat down and she said, okay, I'll get my coat. We'll go to the hospital. I was like, no, grandma, it's fine. Just sit a minute. And she was like, no'll get my coat we'll go to the hospital I was like no grandma it's fine just just sit a minute and she was like no come on we've things to do and my sister who

again is very emotional actually not shouted at her but in the weeks to follow she said grandma you've not cried once over dad and my grandma turns was she said, I have cried every single day since your dad died. She said, I've just done it on my own. Yeah. And I was kind of like, that's like me. I've got it from my grandma. And I guess people deal with grief differently. Yeah. When my mum died, I felt like the emotion was like trapped inside me. I wasn't as emotional at that point.

I'd been emotional prior to her dying because we knew it was going to happen. But after she died, I kind of like went into this sort of, I'm going to call it emotionally constipated state, which I know is a ridiculous way of putting it, but it was like trapped inside and I needed to have this emotional shit, dare I say.

And it's like it was trapped and I hated the feeling but I was a bit conscious that people might think oh she didn't love her mum that much because I wasn't weeping and wailing but it's that's absolutely categorically not true but sometimes it just you just can't process it in that particular moment and it happens a much a much later date how you said you've got other children, Andrea. How have they been? Do they speak to you a lot? My oldest son never met Jacob because he lives down in Plymouth, so he never met Jacob.

My daughter, she lives in Honiton, but she came up and she's my rock. As well as my oldest son who lives in Carlislele he's my rock as well and then I've got Sean who who's down here on the floor but he's just really quiet oh so you've kind of got a big family um and I guess like you say all playing their individual roles how how have things changed for you now since when it happened do you feel like you're you're still coping or do you feel like you've you're in a little bit of a better place how do you think things have shifted I don't think it ever gets any better I think you just learn to live with it and I go to work I come home I do what I've got

to do although this morning I was looking at someone on Facebook and it was two lines of a song that came on and it was a song that I used to sing to Jacob when I was looking at someone on Facebook and it was two lines of a song that came on and it was a song that I used to sing to Jacob when he was eating and he used to get grizzly and I used to put it on and he used to sit quiet and eat some more and I was just gone for about half an hour you've just got to get on with it but there are days where I just I could just lay in bed and not get up and that I guess I guess, Abi, is something, like Andrea said, it becomes your new normal and it's okay if down the line you're still having those days, isn't it?

It's not something we should be like, oh, come on, it's been years now. Grief is for life. There's no timeline on it. There's no right or wrong way to grieve as well. There are obviously more helpful ways of dealing with stuff but you know if you have a day or a week where you don't want to get out of bed sometimes you just have to accept okay that's where I'm at right now and then look to the future and like in the future I'm gonna you know make some plans or get something to get you to want to get out of bed and if you know seek a therapist if needed I think a

lot of people even now feel that they shouldn't it's not a failing and I think a lot of people think oh it's a failing if I do that but it's not from my mum's point of view Andrew you'll know being a mum if you're not right it does manifest in the kids it's no matter how hard we try it's the whole putting your you know breathing mask on before the passenger on the plane you have to be able to like you say get up get the breakfast sorted check in on them make sure they're okay and sometimes it's kind of like hang on a minute what about me who's who's checking on me everyone's kind of at peace and I'm in pieces and that's that that's not the way to be.

The fact that you've come on and you've shared your story and you've even been through that, I think you're just incredible. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It means a lot. Thank you, Andrea. And I'm sure your story, well, I know your story would have helped a lot of people

because we had so many messages for this episode, just wanting reassurance that they're not on their own. So you you've helped them so thank you there are people all around you carrying that grief around with them because it just follows you everywhere doesn't it it's always in the background and you think oh it's just me and you do feel lonely but it's like you can't meet anyone who hasn't lost someone no and it's, if you're lucky enough to feel sad after losing someone, you know that person was precious. Yeah. They say it's the price you pay for love.

Yeah, the price you pay for loving someone. Would you like to see a picture of Jacob before we go? Yes. Yes, please. I don't know if you'll be able to see him. Oh, yeah. Oh, bless him, his little England shirt. Oh, what a lovely little boy.

That was just before the Euro finals. That's why he's got his England kit on. I'm sure he'll be very proud of you, Andrea. 100%. so our next guest to join us is jess and jess i believe you've had twice as much grief um to cope with haven't you what what's happened jess yeah i guess until i thought oh what am i actually gonna say what am i actually gonna say and how am i gonna word it so yeah i guess i've never really strung it all together but um lost both my mum um and my mother-in-law to be um all within 11 months yeah and during covid um pretty soon after i'd had a miscarriage but then had my

little boy so it was all just kind of rollercoasted and and uh all happened around the same time oh gosh yeah and i imagine obviously the the two key roles in pregnancy especially for me anyway is your mum um yeah so to navigate that you know with life with a new baby your mum and mother-in-law are both key players how that must have really affected your your time as a new mum yeah absolutely so I found out I was trying to actually like work it out but I I found out about mum shortly after we actually lost my granddad so her dad um took covid he died in the April and then we found out about mum's cancer in the June and I was already pregnant and that so it held me back from telling mum obviously because I didn't want to worry her put any more stress on her um but like you say like for especially for a first baby you know

or especially after miscarriage too, like the person you want to confide in the most is your mum. Yeah. So, yeah, that was really tough. And then I had my little boy in the December 2020. And then we found out about my mother-in-law in the March, actually, on Mother's Day. So my first Mother's Day, we found out about her

and they both had stage four at the same time do you know it sounds it's going to sound ridiculous when I say this but do you know they always say one goes out one goes in um yeah with my my sister's got three children and with her first pregnancy with Hadley we lost my granddad during that pregnancy. And then with a second pregnancy, Tyler, he was born and he had meningitis. When he was only a few weeks old, he was really, really poorly. And it got to the stage he was in the ICU and the doctor said, look, you all need to come up and say goodbye

because he's not going to recover. So we all went up and my dad was with us. And my dad crouched down next to him I remember he was he was going come on you're an Atkinson you can get through this yeah um and he said he said I'm not religious in any way he said but if there's anything out there he says you know take me and make him better and my sister said oh dad don't be so daft don't be silly and anyway we went home I'll expect my sister and brother-in-law stayed with Tyler and we were waiting for a call and we didn't get one and we're thinking what's going on this is

kind of weird and hours turned to day day turned to weeks and Tyler made a full recovery and the doctors were like this is a bit not odd but you know the odds were against him and three months later my dad dropped dead of a heart attack. And my sister has said, and it's, of all the three children, Tyler is the spit of my dad. He's genuinely the spit of my dad. And she always says that my dad left so that Tyler could be here. And it's almost kind of like in your situation,

your mum leaving for you to have the baby that previously you'd miscarried yeah I mean especially with my granddad because he died in the April and I hadn't I'd only just found out I was pregnant yeah and no one else knew even at his funeral and then when mum was diagnosed you know you kind of have to put some kind of logic on it otherwise I feel like it's harder to deal with for me it's like you have like this vision this vision for the future of like you know when you have kids you know your mum's going to be involved and you're going to have that support there and it's going to be a certain way yeah absolutely like never did I imagine having my little boy who's now two and a half um and not having a grandma for him it's

really tough to get your head around that he's got two amazing grandfathers so we are so grateful for that but just not having a grandma that spoils them and gives them all that chocolate that you don't want them to have before bedtime and yeah picking him up from nursery and all those things and all that like you say all those plans that you make and then they're just taken away from you you can't fathom why that's happened it makes you a bit angry doesn't it I went through a phase after my dad I was just really pissed off I was annoyed at everyone who had a dad which sounds pathetic and ridiculous yeah but every father's day I used to get so angry I go to the the graveyard and put

flowers down with my sister but I'd drive home really annoyed and I'd be like why why is you know such a body's daddy he doesn't even see them he hates them he's horrible to the mum and he's still walking around when I had the best dad in the world and he's under the ground and again is that a stage of grief fabby i guess going through anger yeah anger is a normal stage of grief i didn't get angry you know i missed that stage out like i've thought about it's like why did i miss you can miss things out you don't necessarily have to get angry i didn't get angry and i've not i've managed to not get bitter which i'm really glad about but i've not felt you know when you said you see people with them when I see people and they're having a lovely time with their mum maybe if their mum was a bit of an arsehole I'd feel different but I'm like yes cherish your mum

shout it from the rooftops like when they're here like really make them feel loved you know that's kind of my way of thinking about it so I feel good when I see people cherishing their parents I might feel a bit annoyed if someone was disrespecting their parents and taking them for granted that's a bit different but it doesn't make me feel angry luckily how's your partner coach yes obviously because it was his mother as well how's he how's he been yeah do you know what it's interesting because we've dealt with it like completely differently which which, you know, I think can even make you or break you as a couple. If you're grieving at the same time, like usually one supports the other. You know, if you've, it's very rare that I would say that you're going through losing your mum at the same time or around the same time um but he definitely feels a lot of anger because he lost his dad when he was about three four so for him it was losing you know he's now lost both his parents he felt very angry

um I had longer with my mum um so from like her being diagnosed to her passing away I had around two years two and a bit years where with Kath it was only eight months um because the tumors had got to her brain so and then obviously her personality changed and so he just felt so much anger and it was all during Covid where really you know you couldn't visit people as freely if she was in hospital we couldn't go and see her so I think he just felt completely robbed of that time um so yeah I think we've both had to learn how to accept that we are just dealing with it differently and that's okay um and learn how to support each other what have you told your kids about uh where Nana's are Mia thinks her granddad

David um lives in the moon she thinks whenever whenever the moon comes out she says oh gang gang david's out and she thinks he's stuck up there she said she says he's in the moon with vera which was an old dog and the queen so he's living his best life with a dog and a with a little bulldog and the queen um but it's just what we told her when because we've got pictures of him around the house and obviously she's yeah she's got another granddad but she has asked where you know where he is and yeah i just said oh he's in the moon i didn't know what to say and it's just it's just stuck yeah um so my little boy sammy we um so i think at a time he could probably vaguely i mean he's only two and a half but vaguely

remember them both because I still have my mum's like little rucksack she'd carry around in the back of the car and I use it to have Sammy's like spare clothes in and nappies and whatever it's just handy to have so he sees it and he's like oh grandma's back you know so he he kind of makes that association still I've tried to use some of her things and keep her kind of alive in that sense. And like you, there's pictures around the house. So we always say, morning, Nana. Morning, Grandma. I guess we haven't got to the age where he's like, well, where are they?

So we say in heaven, although we're not really religious. Because I'm thinking about how I explain when Mia starts school and she finds out he's probably not in the moon. And then has a meltdown about that. Yeah. Because we've been to his grave together a few times but she's not quite got the concept of, like she first said to me,

like when she asked why we were here, I said, oh, it's so we can see Ganga and David. And she said, but he's in the moon. And I said to Gorka, I don't want to say he's in the box in the ground. I don't, you know, because I don't believe that. I believe his body is, but I'm quite spiritual with stuff. And I know my dad's with me all the time.

But you can't explain that to a four-year-old without freaking them out. Do you know what I mean? It's kind of like, I bet she's thinking, well, where is he, mum? Is he at this place we keep going to or is he in the friggin moon make your mind up it must be so i feel like i've confused her already and she's only four you know steer towards the truth but like a watered down version

of the truth we go to my mom's grave quite often and we we you know we've planted flowers and he knows we're going to grandma's garden so at the moment yeah you know he that's where he thinks we're going it's just grandma's garden and I think as time moves on I'll start explaining it but like you're saying a watered down sort of version. Do you feel like you're all still coping or do you feel like you've come out the other side and this is your your new norm now and you just kind of live with it every day or week is like is different so sometimes my partner is really struggling with grief depending on the time of year um like we've gone past all of his firsts you know his mum's

first birthday and first mother's day without her and all that kind of thing whereas I'm kind of going through that this year they're supporting my dad as well which is like evolving all the time at 34 I just didn't think that I would you know my dad would be leaning on me so much um so that's changed like our relationship we've always been really close but the dynamic has changed I guess for your dad he'll see so much of you your mum in you you know what I mean yeah so it must be difficult for the dads as well. My dad once burst into tears when I walked into the room because he just saw my mum. I see even though I've got a little boy I see so much of my mum in him you know which is the way he looks his little mannerisms and which is lovely at times but other times it like really gets you.

That's what we were talking earlier. It's a different mass for a different occasion on each time. And like you say, when you're on your own and you want to have your cry and let it out, you must 100% do it because you need to keep yourself, you know, in a good place mentally to be able to do everything else for the family. Jess, thank you so, so much for talking to us.

I really, really appreciate it. Thanks so much. Thank you, Jess. Bye. Thank you. Bye. So our next guest is Alison. Welcome to The Overshare, Alison. Thank you so much for joining us.

Tell us your story. I believe you lost your mum at a crucial point in your life. What happened? I did. So I found out I was pregnant when I turned 30. I found out I was pregnant with a little girl. And when I was 24 weeks pregnant, I got a phone call on the Friday morning while I was at work to inform me that my mum had unfortunately passed away. She wasn't ill she'd had a sudden cardiac arrest while she was at home on her own and yeah and it was as quick as that and she was gone and I can't remember thinking oh my god God, what do I do now? Like, I'm about to have a baby. And all these emotions were flying around. In fact, I didn't even want to have the baby at the time

because I thought as my daughter aged, it would also signify how many years my mum had been gone. I was like, how do I separate the two? How do I do that? You're at the most incredible time in your life growing a little human to add to the family and at the other end of the spectrum the matriarch of the family is no longer there and it's how do you navigate grieving you the loss of your mum but then getting excited and happy about the birth of your of your child I can't even imagine how you'd

navigate that I mean it was it was 12 weeks after she passed that I gave birth because I went into labour early as well so she was premature I was scared of her coming and actually I shouldn't have been because she was exactly what I needed she really helped heal some of those broken pieces and I remember saying to my husband I was like oh my god you know I'm I haven't got a mum you know what I mean and and he went but it's okay because you're going to be a mum you're going to have that mother-daughter relationship it's just this time you'll be the mum and that stuck with me that really did resonate with me and sort of helped me move forward but yeah it was really difficult then because I was not only a daughter grieving a mum but I had become

a new mum so Mother's Day had a completely different meaning it was I didn't have a mum anymore and but yeah I was celebrating my first one as a mum so it was really kind of bittersweet but my daughter was honestly she is just amazing. I'm absolutely obsessed with her. She has gone so far to help me heal and help me see that life, even without my mum, is not what I thought it would be. And I can look back and think about and remember her and treasure those memories, but still have the time with my daughter

and be making those memories as well so but it took me a long time to get here like it wasn't straightforward I mean it's five years this year so that's what I was going to ask how I mean obviously having a daughter it's proof that life life does go on doesn't it regardless I mean my dad died very similar to yours we just got a phone call he'd had a heart attack in his sleep, cardiac arrest. So again, it was very sudden. We had no kind of goodbye. We had no, it was just one day, life changed forever.

So I completely understand how that would have felt. Did you speak to anyone professional? Did you have a support network? How did you cope? So I was referred to the mental health team the um perinatal mental health team who supported me so alongside my maternity appointments with the midwife I also had a separate appointments with the mental health team and and they were really helpful but again with grief really you can't start any kind of therapy

to do with grief until it's you know a significant period of time after the episode after it's happened and mine was like literally 12 weeks before I gave birth the aftercare team the midwives the health visitors were all aware of what's gone on and I got referred then to counselling to start working through because my anxiety went through the roof because then I was terrified that something would happen to my daughter and I was terrified like if my husband didn't come home on time I'm like that's it you know he's kind of gone so I had this fear of a fear of the unknown basically uncertainty didn't know what was going to happen from one day to the next and I think as a new mum you're already quite anxious especially

as a first-time mum you don't really know what you're doing you're kind of like oh what do I do and I didn't have anybody to bounce anything off either because I was the first one in my friend group to have a baby and so I kind of didn't really have anywhere to sort of go but the internet helped I have to be honest you know people sharing stories same as what I'm doing now helped massively and building the community with the mum groups and the new mums and you know trying to navigate and find my way and it sounds mad this now but I wouldn't change it because I don't think I'd be the mum I am now if I did have had my mum at the time I probably wouldn't be where I am now and have the bond that I've got with my daughter but I can only say that now five

years later you know yeah the woman you are today has come out of something so horrible and tragic that you've you somehow managed to spin a positive on it I think that's amazing I do as well thank you thank you I mean you know it didn't it didn't come didn't just happen you know I didn't just go oh you know move on it was it's been a process and I think the most important thing that I did was the 12 weeks before I had Penelope I took the time to grieve so I didn't run from it I didn't hide from it if I wanted to cry I cried if I wanted to talk about what I did and I made sure that I kind of acknowledged all those things I was feeling and give myself time to be that way and then when my daughter came along I'd had that bit of time the initial period

to then right okay now I need to start shift your focus absolutely yeah and don't get me wrong you know it comes in waves and peaks and troughs and you'll know yourself as time goes on those waves get a little bit further apart and and they did but initially I think the most the biggest thing for me was I just let myself feel it I just sat and let myself feel it for 12 weeks this big pregnant lump on a couch on my own and just felt every every emotion. Abby you said off air earlier speaking about it and and being open and accepting the emotions is a massive way to get through it yeah my partner I asked him yesterday I was like what do you think I did well or like how did you how from looking at me what do you think I did well and he said you were very willing to just be emotional when you

needed to be emotional you didn't hide it you spoke about it you didn't try and bury it yeah so I think that helped me and also I remember one time I was having my daily cry and my partner was like you're crying because he's in the other room and he could always like hear me sniffing away he was like you're crying I was like yeah and he came in and he was like right three things three good memories about your mum go I want three good memories because my brain was just going down this oh oh, her face when she was dying, you know, like the worst possible thoughts that you could have. And it just shifted. It's like, so now I think it's like such a challenge,

but I force myself to be like, right, okay, remember something good about your mum. Remember a good memory, like make yourself remember it because those negative memories can sometimes overshadow stuff. And the other thing, and I don't know if this will resonate with you Alison or whether this will help you not that you seem like totally fine anyway you know you've really got it together but um someone said to me you know your mom like lives on in you and your DNA and when you have children she'll live on in in their DNA and for me I found

that really comforting to think oh actually yeah that's true she lives on in me'll live on in their DNA. And for me, I found that really comforting to think, oh, actually, yeah, that's true. She lives on in me, she lives on in memories. These people, like, even though they're not physically here, they live on in some capacity. No one can argue about genetics, can they? But I think talking about her, you know, and people shouldn't shy away from the conversation, you know the question you know tell me about your mom just because they're gone doesn't mean we don't have to talk about them I think sometimes people are scared aren't they to kind of say anything in case they upset you and it's like well I'm already upset don't worry about that yeah it's kind of there all the time you know

and like special occasions people like oh I'm really thinking about you on this day and it's like well you know yeah I suppose it has more connotations attached to it but actually I really struggled on Tuesday afternoon for just a random reason rather than it being Mother's Day on Sunday I had to have a worse day on the Tuesday so there's no kind of rhyme or reason to it either. Thank you so so much Alison you honestly you would have helped so many helped so many mums-to-be who are in similar situations. Thank you very much. Have a great day. Take care. Bye.

Bye. Hello. Great. Thank you. Hi, Abi. Nice to meet you. And you you i've just eaten a tubler and it's giving me heartburn oh no sorry one sec i need to put down the chocolate so our next guest we've got joe and joe's got a different take on grief to the other guests we've had today it's really really interesting this because you've had to cope, Jo, I believe, with missing special moments through some horrific trauma. What's happened? Tell us your story.

It's sort of linked to my pregnancy, really, and our journey having our daughter. We found out that we were having a baby last January and everything was going really well. And then when we went to our 20-week scan, I had no idea that that scan is an anomaly scan I thought you just went found out if you're having a boy or a girl and that's it um but unfortunately for us it got picked up that our daughter who we found out we were having a girl

had a um quite a major heart defect called transposition of the great arteries which um basically means that her pulmonary artery and her aorta were transposed they were the wrong way around she'd need open heart surgery as soon as she was born she had two holes in her heart um and we were sent straight to Bristol we live in Plymouth so um it's quite a way away to go for other scans at the fetal medicine unit and um yeah it was confirmed that that was going to be our journey I'd have to be induced at Bristol so I was in the right place because when she was born she was going to have to go straight into the NICU for um a keyhole surgery initially to hold her off before she could have her open heart surgery

yeah I guess it all kind of started from there just accepting that our journey was going to look a lot different we were asked to read up about the condition and decide whether it was something we wanted to continue with the pregnancy which we 100% wanted to do it was a grieving process my pregnancy and there were moments of joy but that it was also I could never quite fully enjoy it or relax because I was so scared that something I'd get too attached or bond to this baby and then I might not have a baby to bring home with me and it just made things like buying prams and decorating the nursery and having a baby shower so difficult because I didn't know if I was sort of setting myself up for just heartache if anything went wrong um I got to 27 weeks and unfortunately had a hemorrhage and

they thought that she was trying to come early so I had to go back to Bristol um where again I was prepped for the worst you know they said a 27-week-old baby wouldn't stand a very good chance anyway, but one with a serious heart defect, her heart would be too small to operate on. So again, we were going through this sort of roller coaster of that as well. But by some miracle, she stayed in and we made it to the end. she came a few days before my induction was booked at Bristol um so there was a little bit of a dramatic moment of trying to get me from Plymouth to Bristol in time almost giving birth in the ambulance which was uh not fun and my partner being stuck sort of miles behind us in traffic because he wasn't with me in the ambulance but um yeah we we got there she was

born and we were told you know she'll be blue she won't be breathing she'll be taken straight from you but actually she came out and she was pink and she was crying I managed to get 60 seconds which I was told I wouldn't have so my golden hour um I knew I wasn't going to have I managed to have my 60 seconds of my golden hour where I had a little cuddle to have I managed to have my 60 seconds of my golden hour where I had a little cuddle and they sort of started the timer and then she needed to go straight away to the NICU so that they could start doing all their observations and get everything ready that they they needed for her and then yeah our journey began of a month living in the intensive care unit with some pretty rocky moments so now it's like my

body and my brain are saying okay you know she's okay you can now start to process all this stuff that you've gone through and that you've been holding on to it's daunting enough I think when you're having a baby and you have the checks and they say baby's healthy you still come away thinking okay a few more weeks till my next one. Hopefully it's still the same. Do you know what I mean? From the minute you see a positive test result, it's fear of something going wrong.

No disregard or disrespect to your partner or your parents or your friends. But it's only when you're carrying the child, only you really, really know. So as much as you have the best support network it's kind of like a boxer prepping for a fight you know you have all your team around you but when when it comes to the fight it's the mum and the baby who are going through the trauma and getting the delivery and are doing it all so the fact that you did it and the fact that she's here now little

warrior it's kind of like she's already given you the the amount of stress of a lifetime anyway and you're still managing to smile about it yeah no 100% she's definitely I mean she had to fight for her life more than once we went through quite quite a journey with her she was diagnosed with um neck which is a medical condition affecting her bowel before she even had her open heart surgery which can be life-threatening so she got over that she got through her her open heart surgery she then had an episode of SVT which is when her heart went into a different rhythm and she had to be injected with all it just it was yeah it was a really scary time and then when we got home I thought that was it but then we ended up back in hospital with like suspected sepsis and she it's just it's been non-stop but she is such a fighter

knowing that while she was inside my tummy she was safe made the whole labor really difficult because I'd done lots of hypnobirthing and I felt really prepared and I was really sort of had all my affirmations ready all my breath work ready I felt you know I can do this I can do this but knowing that as soon as she was born she'd be taken away and that's when the scary bit started it wasn't the end of our journey that was the beginning of our journey it just I didn't want to give birth to her I just wanted to keep her inside me forever. Mia was premature as well she was only four pound ten and I had a big postpartum hemorrhage so I had about two hours with her which was amazing and she fed and it

was all fine but then the shit hit the fan so to speak and I was then in a mess and the the first thing they did was take Mia the wheeled Mia out while they treated me and I remember screaming to Gorka stay with her I remember I remember trying to stay awake while they were massaging my uterus and I was bleeding and it was a manic situation. But I was trying to stay awake to make sure no one took her, not to make sure I was okay. And Gorka said, he said to me at one point, where do you think they take her? What do you want me to do?

I was going, stay with her, stay with her. And I was convinced someone was going to stay with her stay with her and I was convinced someone was going to snatch her from me yeah yeah you're you're just kind of deep in the trenches I think at the time in survival mode because we were so prepped for the fact that she could die at any moment I just didn't let myself bond with her because I thought then if at least if she's taken away then it won't hurt as much so it took a long time for me to be able to accept that she wasn't going anywhere. And then, you know, I've done all the things that you should do. I guess I've spoken to the maternity mental health services, I'm on a waiting list

for PTSD and birth trauma. I've got counselling going on, I'm waiting to talk to a psychiatrist, I've been to my GP, I'm trying holistically to hold my to heal myself I'm sort of going outside trying to be in nature as much as possible wild swimming yoga breath work reiki like all the things I know will help me feel better but fundamentally I guess the only way you can get through a real really traumatic experience and an experience that's quite complex because you're actually grieving somebody that's alive. Can that be a thing then, Abby, whereby you do grieve something that hasn't happened? I guess it's more of a fear of what could go wrong, is it? Is that a thing?

Yeah, and you can actually grieve something that you know will happen. So it's called anticipatory grief, where you grieve the loss of someone before they've actually died so that's actually a thing but you can grieve anything you can grieve the loss of a job you can our brains are so good our imaginations are so strong that we can grieve for something that's in our imagination and in that situation that's not an imaginary like imaginary situation that's actually potentially what could have happened and then I imagine someone like that would be grieving like the moments that the good moments of pregnancy that you were hoping might happen and then didn't yeah that makes so many levels to it so it's kind of like I guess if someone comes out of a long-term relationship and you're grieving what you had as a

as a couple. Yeah, when you go through a breakup, that's exactly the same feeling and emotion, grief. And did you meet other parents, obviously, when your little girl was in intensive care? Did you meet other parents and bond with them going through similar? Yeah, there were parents in the house that we stayed in across the road from the hospital whose little boy was opposite Malia while she was in the NICU and we spoke to them a lot. There was a Facebook group that I became a part of when I found out about her heart condition and there was a lady on there who was absolutely amazing.

Her daughter had the same condition and she's just always at the end of the phone anytime I have any worries and she's just she's been sort of like my guardian angel throughout all of this really. Just by being on this podcast I was going to say you're going to help so many people this was the you know every every week we punt for an episode and this was the one I mean producer Matt's emails were just there was so so many stories um he actually rung me and said i'm really really low i've read so many horrendous stories uh and to pick only some but yeah you will help so many people and i guess the one positive from this is like you'll be able to say to your daughter look seven months in intensive care missus and you got through it but nearly sepsis you got through it

you'll get through this heartache you'll get through it, you'll get through this heartache, you'll get through this exam, you'll get through that grazed knee. Do you know what I mean? She's already got a benchmark of what's expected of her because of how strong she's been. Yeah, she's really, really high. Yeah, absolutely. She's honestly like such a firecracker. She's just, because she had to fight for her life, she's just a fighter in life. Like everything she does is with passion and she really lets you know if she likes something or if she doesn't thank you for sharing your journey joe and i wish you all the best of luck moving forward bye as always i do end these over shares by thanking our guests but i just wanted to take a moment to

say an extra special thank you to everyone who appeared on this episode i know how difficult it is to talk about a situation that's that's so personal um and so upsetting for some so thank you as well to everyone who messaged about this i've said before we were unindated with messages hopefully uh we've helped a lot we've shed quite a few tears reading your stories about coping with loss and dealing with grief. So I can't imagine what it must be like to live through, you know, the pain that some of you have suffered and some of you are still going through.

So thank you for daring to relive the most horrendous moments of your life. It really does mean a lot and you're helping so many people as well. So I hope that your stories and how you've coped will help others because there will be people listening now going through their own grief coping with their own loss um and this podcast was for you so thank you and to Abby as well thank you you've been fab as always um if you've got any comments on this episode of the

overshare you can get in touch on the WhatsApp. It's 07761 039 898 or you can email producer Matt at theovershare at bowermedia.co.uk The Overshare was produced by Matt Foyster for Bower Media and we shall return soon.

Make sure you look us up, subscribe and tell your friends about us and we'll see you on the next Overshare. Well done everybody. Well done. Aww.