The People, Process, & Progress Podcast - 6 Considerations When Leading a Program of Programs | KEV Talks #26

Episode Date: April 4, 2023

Leading projects is a challenge. Leading programs, and a group of projects, is even more challenging. So, what do we do when we're asked to lead a program of programs? In this week's episode, 6 Considerations When Leading a Program of Programs, I share six things to consider when you're asked to lead at an even higher level than a program.Things to Consider:Take it up a notch (in view altitude)Support your Project Managers to become Program ManagersThink even more holisticallyEmbrace dynamic standardsBe objective, but provide directionNourish the different personalities

It's time to lace up, chalk up, get logged in, and get locked on to the KevTalks Podcast. Get ready to hear compelling interviews with extraordinary people, hear industry-leading best practices that will help you and your teams make progress together. Now let's get to this episode in 3, 2, 1. Hey everybody, welcome to KevTalks Podcast episode 26, leading a program of programs. I'm on the road this week, so kind of a thoughts from the road, which I've done in the past. I've also done an episode called Projects, Programs, or Portfolios that talks about kind of the hierarchy of things.

And here I'm sharing some recent experience and some experience I've had in the past about when you're leading a program, but it's actually a program comprised of programs. And if you recall, and here's a quick review, a project is usually singular. It's a one-time thing. It's a new product, software process, something like that. A program is a collection of projects and a portfolio can be a collection of programs and projects. But sometimes there's a program on its own that is full of programs. That's not necessarily part of a big portfolio. So what do we do there when we're leading those? A lot of the same leadership traits I've talked about, the value of the foundational five, making sure just overall you've got good, you know, leader's intent,

where are we headed with this? What's the task purpose end state, right? What are your smart objectives for everything? What's your structure, your resources? How are you communicating? Those all apply in some of the other program management things. But what I want to share today are some experiences that I've had that I'm having and that I think have worked well and I've gotten good feedback on so that you all can implement these too. And before I get started, if you can leave a review on Apple Podcasts, subscribe, share this with your friends, folks that are interested in project program management are just good process. And of course, from hearing from the other folks that share their stories and what they've done to help others, that would be great. And thank you so much for being here. So let's get into number one

about leading a program of programs. So first, you got to take it up a notch. And by that, I mean in altitude, right? You've heard, hey, you're at ground level, you need to take it up a notch. And by that, I mean in altitude, right? You've heard, hey, you're at ground level. You need to take it up to 10,000 feet. Even as a project manager on a single project, to me, you're still at about 10,000 feet, right? You still have to have an overview of everything going on. What's the technical stuff? What's the process? Are all our stakeholders involved?

You're still looking strategically. You're not on the ground level, as it were, turning the wrench and fixing the computers or putting the gauze on the wound. That's not your job as a project manager. So if you're just getting into project management, realize, and you've come from, say, the real hands-on world of wherever you've come from, you got to take it up a notch and have that kind of global, so to speak, view of the project work. Now, for a program, I'm going to say 30,000 feet because now you're looking at a couple projects, maybe even more than that, that are under your purview as the program manager. And so you have to have even a higher level of supervision, coordinating things, and you're

going to wax and wane between some ground level, so to speak, project work that going back to 10,000 feet and also 30,000, how do I make sure these are connected? And now if you're leading a program of programs, so a team of project managers that themselves are really a mix of program and project managers, and now you're asked to lead them, you're now going to have to be at 50,000 feet, maybe a little higher to see what's going across all these programs, what the projects, what meetings do I have to be in or not? Because your time is going to be spread out between executive reporting, planning for the overarching things like go live, for how are we prioritizing all the work that we're asking other teams to do. And you have to help the team coordinate that because they're focused on their projects within their programs or their singular project that falls under this umbrella.

So every time you take on a larger structure, just like an org chart, you have to have a bigger view so you don't get kind of bogged down. So if you're asked to lead a group of project managers that are themselves managing really programs in some cases, you have to be up at a higher level than you would be if it was you as a program manager managing people with singular projects if that makes sense so take it up a notch in altitude in both your vision your strategy how you coordinate things let your folks do their job and you know to that that leads me to number two is is your project managers now have become program managers right so say you're a program manager or a senior project manager and you're leading project managers that have a singular effort, a singular project, let's say two or three,

just an example. And that's what they're focused on is each one of them. Let's say you have three project managers on your team. Each one has one project and you're just helping coordinate things, manage the budget, see how we're reporting, support them with escalation, maybe some institutional knowledge, that kind of stuff. Well, now let's say some of those project managers or all of them have two or three projects, they're really leading programs, right? So you have to let them develop within their scope, within their programs, some of the structures that they want to use. And I'll touch on that here. And number four, we'll skip one where we embrace kind of dynamic solutions or standards, but you have to let them kind of grow because it's part of their professional development.

Now, having said that, if you're the senior person, if you're the overall lead for your area, you want to be there to provide that feedback, to provide that guidance, to answer questions when you either are asked to or you notice that you need to. And a great quote, and I'll put this in the show notes, was, you know, share your experience, not just your opinion. And I talked about that on another episode is great, because that's, that's really how you get to be senior and be helpful. In addition to your soft skills, and knowing how to do Gantt charts, and all that jazz or strategic planning or programmatic reporting is recognizing, oh, you know what, I need to intervene here, or I need to back off, right, and let them be the program managers they're growing into and develop their own styles

and just kind of feed some, hey, this worked in the past or this didn't work and let them know of landmines that are coming. So first, take it up a notch if you're leading a program or programs and second, let your project managers notice that they're going to become program managers, right, that's an evolution for them and that's great. The third thing is you got to think more holistically. So when you're at that 50,000 foot level, you can't get bogged down in this one program when you have, say, six other ones, right, going on. You have to think how do all of these interconnect?

Which ones are going well? Which ones are not going well? Who do I need to shore up a little bit more than the other person or the other programs? Where can I not be in the way? Because that's another thing too, right? Leaders aren't always helpful. And I say that as a leader. Sometimes we're in the way. Sometimes we check too much. Sometimes we give too much administrative overhead. So that's part of your job at that 50,000 foot level is to be a blocker, not a negative one, but like a football blocker,

right? I'm going to get in the way of this administrative stuff so you can focus on delivering and just getting stuff done. And when you think more holistically, you can look across your teams, you can look across how we're reporting and think, okay, this is working good, this isn't. And that really, to me, starts with you got to meet with each of your team and get there what's going well, what's not going well, and then build on that. And then you do have to, at times, as part of your holistic view, know for this program of programs, we've been asked to report this way or to use these standards, but that blends with my overall organizational standard in this way and find where those can mesh and then be bold enough to speak up and say, look, I think this is working well. This is

causing too much administrative overhead for my team. And for me, can we maybe compromise? So don't show up with just complaints, right? When you're thinking holistically, think about this is how this can help my program of programs that fall into the bigger overall effort. And here's how I think this can help the overall effort as much or more. So we're taking it up a notch, that 50,000 foot level, even higher than program, which is at 30 and project, which is at 10. We're going to notice and help our project managers become program managers. We're going to think more holistically on how everything's happening. And then, which I mentioned a little bit ago, we're going to embrace dynamic standards. So what that means is you're senior and you know not just the industry,

but your organization. Hopefully that's a great advancement model, I think. So you know who's who, you know how we've done things, how we can improve on those things. So we don't just say, well, we've done it this way. But at some point, there's going to be standards that you have to follow and you have to help your team embrace those. But by being dynamic, one example is reporting, right? There's instances where team members each create their own reports, and then we compile those reports, and then we report that out in however many different places. Well, you could make it so here's just one report, or you do your report and your singular thing. I will compile all the things as the lead, and I will report on it that way once you make sure I use the right words, terminology, I got the update correct that you meant.

And so I'm going to take that administrative burden. So the standard is still there, but it helps my team be dynamic in the way they do things and they report. And I'm going to pull and tease out the information into the format I need to get it in instead of asking them to do extra work. So and it helps you if you embrace the dynamic piece, you know, it embraces feedback in real time. So it's real time lessons learned. We incorporated.

Do we need this meeting? Do we not? Should it be longer or shorter? Are they stand ups? Are they report outs? you know, it embraces feedback in real time. So it's real time lessons learned. We incorporated, do we need this meeting? Do we not? Should it be longer or shorter? Are they standups? Are they report outs? Are they only escalations? You know, and part of that dynamic standard is meeting tempo, right? In the beginning of projects and then programs and programs of programs, there's a lot of meetings that are, what do we do and how do we do this and who's who? And then it evolves to work meetings. Then it evolves to, we're really busy. Do we need all these meetings? Nope. Okay, let's change this one to that one. Let's get rid of this one completely. Let's add a stand up or a quick touch base or something like that. So it's dynamic from start where it says you're approved, set up this program of programs through we've handed everything off to operational support, but you have to be dynamic while

balancing implementing those standards. The fifth I have here and I have six is to operational support, but you have to be dynamic while balancing implementing those standards. The fifth I have here, and I have six, is to be objective but provide direction. So I mentioned your experience, not necessarily your opinion, even though your opinion is needed sometimes, that you need to be objective in how you look at things, right? Because as I've said before, and I believe, not that I don't care, but I don't own this. It's not my project. Meaning it's not kind of my thing, right, my personal thing. So I can be objective and a bit detached, but I need to provide direction when needed if we're steering off course and getting maybe a little too dynamic that's going to cost a little more or spend a little too much time or it's going to veer off what our sponsor or our high-level, want us to do or we know they like. And so, you know, balance being objective in the feedback that you give your team, and the responses you give your leaders, and then provide direction where you need to. And that objectivity just

helps because data speaks for itself. If you have key performance indicators, timelines are slipping money, those kind of things, right, if they're on track or not, it's pretty objective. And you're not looking to throw people under the bus or what you missed. You're looking to solve problems. We can do after action and lessons learned later. And then, you know, root cause analysis and all that jazz. But while you're being objective and providing direction, that keeps us moving forward. So you So leading a program of programs as a quick recheck, we're going to take it up a notch. We're going to notice and support our project managers really becoming program managers

so they're taking it up a notch. We have to think even more holistically at a higher level how everything ties together, how we're going to report, how we're going to embrace dynamic standards. We're going to be objective, but still provide direction. And this is key really at any level, but particularly when you've got folks with bigger things on their plate is number six to me is nourish the different personalities, right? Everyone's different. Everyone does things different. They're going to, you know, have a

sprinkle of the standards that you've helped provide, but who they are, how they talk to someone, what they would do, their preference for work, where they work from, you know, nourish that where you can. And then again, give direction if you need to, but that's the power of a dynamic team of dynamic experiences, backgrounds in both life and professional, the professional world is let folks be who they are, right. And let them, you know, speak how they speak, use the words they do. And I don't mean like from a super controlling, but from a, you know, if someone says, hey, can you look at this presentation? Can you look at my charter, my scope? You know, it doesn't have to be how you would want to write it.

Here's the exception. And I just did this in a training on smart objectives is there's some words like guarantee or ensure that I don't like to use because you can't really do that in a project or a program, but that's more of kind of a general guideline as opposed to, well, I would write it like this and I think you should say it like that. Unless someone's really missing the mark, let them go with what they want to, right? And then see how it goes and then give feedback. And that doesn't mean let them fail, but it's their plan. It's their program that they're pulling together and they're working towards and that they're working with their stakeholders and their team members and their leaders.

And so they know it better than you as well. So I hope this was helpful, especially as you move up in your career and you take on more leadership roles and then leaders of leaders, a team of teams, if you will, like the McChrystal book. So when you lead a program of programs, here's my advice. Take it up a notch to a higher level of altitude of your view and in all aspects, notice and support your project managers becoming program managers. Think more holistically about everything, every aspect of it. Embrace dynamic standards. Be objective, but provide your direction. Sometimes opinion, mostly experience. Nourish the different personalities on your team. And when you do that,

your team will gel, right? They'll support each other. They'll work together. They will put extra hours in. Just all these different things when you let people be who they are, when you let them make more decisions, when you let them lead their programs as you support them as the leader of the program of programs. Thank you for supporting the KevTalks podcast program for going to KevTalksPod.com. You can follow and subscribe the website. So when I post updates, new episodes, write-ups, things like that, you'll get the update. You can follow me on LinkedIn, Kevin Pennell, P-A-N-N-E-L-L. I'm on Twitter and Instagram at Pennell KG, P-A-N-N-E-L-L KG. In addition to the KevTalks YouTube channel, I also have Pennell 5 Fit, where I promote health, wellness, fitness, 15 seconds at a time. It's largely shorts on there, meaning YouTube shorts, they're 15 seconds.

It's at P-A-N-N-E-L-L-5-FIT, the number five. So give it a view, share it. And for you, if you're working like I am, remote, hybrid, going to the office every now and then, the good thing about being at home is we have a schedule that allows us to be active and healthy, right? We don't commute maybe as much anymore. So that commute time can be walking time, pushups, deadlifts, whatever you have at your house. And it's a big, it's a big factor. So as you're leading programs or programs or whatever you're leading out there, if you get up a little earlier and get a little workout in or go for a walk at lunchtime, it'll help. It'll help all that stuff. So thank you for helping me grow the show. I appreciate it. Give me feedback again, kevtalkspod.com. All the old

episodes are there and I appreciate you. And remember, have a plan so that you and your team can stay connected and on the same page. Stay informed with facts, not just fear or rumors, and get involved so you can make a difference in someone's life and improve your organization. Godspeed, y'all.